The Stream’s John Zmirak interviewed Nefarious author, and TV analyst, Steve Deace about his new book documenting the ethical, medical, and legal abuses of citizens by our elites during the manufactured COVID panic.

John Zmirak: You’ve co-authored a meticulously researched, fact-packed book with Daniel Horowitz, Rise of the Fourth Reich, about the public health dictatorship that was foisted on the public across the world on the pretext of the COVID panic. Are you overheating the rhetoric a little by invoking the Nazi precedent?

Not at all. As we thoroughly explain in the introduction, both of us are actually pretty hesitant to make Nazi comparisons historically. However, the parallels here are just too stark to ignore, right down to weaponizing public health under the guise of “science” for the purposes of establishing unprecedented government power and control over individual rights. Furthermore, our final witness we call in the book is Vera Sherav, one of the last surviving Holocaust survivors. And she makes this case herself in her testimony better than we ever could on our own.

Could you please explain the Nuremburg Principles, how they came to be, and how the government response to COVID in the U.S. and elsewhere violated them?

The Nuremberg Code was the result of a separate trial after WWII that put the healthcare and scientific sector on trial for their role in the rise of the Third Reich. Out of those trials came a code that reset what the Hippocratic Oath meant now in a modern era of great scientific advancement. The code itself isn’t very long or complicated, and it basically comes down to this truth – you cannot experiment upon human beings, nor treat them as chattel, in order to weaponize medicine for the purposes of achieving political outcomes.

What Did Elites Know and When Did They Know It?

At what point did policymakers realize that lockdowns weren’t working for school kids? At what point for adults? Why didn’t these bureaucrats and elected officials change course — was it incompetence? Hubris? Stubbornness? Or an addiction to controlling the lives of citizens on a micro level, in line with longtime ideological fantasies of the Left?

One of the most difficult truths we propose and prove in the book is that “the experts” knew all along their “solutions” weren’t working. It’s not that two schmucks like Daniel and I knew more than Fauci did, but that we didn’t. He knew these things before we did. He – and the rest of his ilk – just didn’t care. And this is demonstrated by the fact they never once voluntarily came forward and said, “Hey look, we went too far there out of an abundance of caution. Our bad, we will pull back.” Nope, instead in defiance of all the real-time data to the contrary, these were revolving mandates with indefinite lengths. And they were only rolled back when enough people failed to comply they became unenforceable, or the courts or state/local governments made it so.

When did Pfizer and other “vaccine” makers realize that their product was more dangerous than it was effective? When did our CDC and other public health authorities learn that information? Has either entity ever admitted the truth about the experimental mRNA therapy, if only in documents meant to be kept secret?

Pfizer knew from the beginning they were producing something that didn’t stop the spread of the virus, thus did not even met the traditional definition of the term “vaccine” – before the CDC changed it in 2021 to comport with the marketing of the mRNA shots. They knew in their data all along negative efficacy — and folks like Naomi Wolf and Steve Bannon have also done an excellent job of uncovering this — was a strong potential from the beginning. Meaning the cure would be worse than the disease, producing more adverse events than it prevented. Prior to Covid, Moderna had attempted to bring eight different products to market, but failed each time. Miraculously, it was able to bring a Covid “vaccine” to market on the first try and in “warp speed.” I’m sure they were just very lucky.

Preying on the Pregnant

You particularly point to the blatant immorality of administering an untested drug to pregnant women. What are the numbers on the effects of the COVID jab on unborn babies and their moms? What motive can you imagine for these companies and public health officials crossing this bright red ethical line?

Traditionally, pregnant women are exempt from medical experimentation such as human trials for vaccines, for obvious reasons. Yet they were anxious to get to include them here, and all the potential answers as to why are bad. As recently as early this year some health departments around the country were still telling pregnant women to get the poison poke to “pass on your antibodies to your babies.” There have been studies pointing out what this genetic serum does to sperm motility, the rapid rise in miscarriages, and real-time data in several countries of sudden population drops. When you consider this administration’s number two just promoted “depopulation” in public, draw your own conclusions. Otherwise, these are some awfully devilish coincidences.

Hireling Shepherds Who Ran Away

Were you shocked by how easily and completely both Catholic and Evangelical leaders were ready to shut the doors of their churches? To accept as ethical and even morally obligatory vaccines based on human organs stolen from aborted babies? Have we seen any repentance on those issues?

I wish I could say I was, but the inconvenient truth is too much of the salt had lost its savor already before Covid. A salty church doesn’t permit a culture to emerge that would render it “non-essential.” Only a church that had already declared itself to be so would do that. Covid didn’t prophesy the church into being non-essential, it confirmed it. The good news is, there was a remnant that took a stand, as the new movie The Essential Church portrays. The bad news is, it was just a remnant. And no, our faith leaders are just too gosh darn important to repent to the little people. They’ve got speaking tours to manage.

Have you reviewed the massive document dump that Naomi Wolf and others sued Pfizer to release now, instead of 75 years from now? What have you learned about the respect for human life at that company and others?

Both Daniel and I have reviewed the material Wolf and her team published after reviewing it themselves, and it empirically quantifies what Daniel and I experientially confirm in the testimonies of the witnesses in our book. Meaning our witnesses were not outliers, but rather emblematic of a broad harvest of horror these demonic fiends unleashed. These are the same people who declare a baby in the womb “unviable tissue mass.” That boldly proclaim men can menstruate. This is The Island of Doctor Moreau. The manifestation of doctrines of demons, and if there’s anything Hell hates it’s the fact we are made in the image of the One it hates the most – God.

The Blue State Nursing Home Genocide

In blue states, not red states, governor after governor dumped COVID patients into nursing homes — where they could and did infect and kill thousands of U.S. veterans, grandparents, and other honest citizens. What possible motive can you find for what I’ve called the “Blue State Nursing Home Genocide?” Other than inflating death statistics, in order to justify ongoing lockdowns and — most crucially — the acceptance of mail-in and other lax forms of balloting. All this to permit massive election fraud in the 2020 races? Am I missing a more innocent explanation, such as stupidity or simple greed?

Many times during this scamdemic I have asked the following question: “what is the benign, innocent explanation for this?” A cynic might say of course the Malthusians seeded the nursing homes with a virus uniquely dangerous to the elderly. From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs, after all. This is simply natural selection, and the herd must be culled. But again, that is so cynical. I am confident a political party awash in Malthusian ethics for almost a century just so happened to commit this atrocity in several states without realizing it.

Has Trump Learned? Even Repented?

As you’ve often said publicly, Donald Trump bears significant blame for the COVID catastrophe, which made possible his expulsion from office — by whatever shady means the Biden machine used. Does it seem to you that Trump actually learned from that experience, that we could expect any better if he’s re-elected?

No, he refuses to admit any of the mistakes he made. Even worse, he continues to tout the Jab in complete denial of all data, reason, and even political benefit to him. Never underestimate the fragility of the male ego.

What will readers find in Rise of the Fourth Reich that they will learn nowhere else?

Testimonies of actual witnesses from all walks of life who witnessed and/or experienced this attack on our way of life firsthand. Their stories have been ignored, but must be heard. But you’ll also receive a plan so that our generation can also be the one to say “never again.”

John Zmirak is a senior editor at The Stream and author or co-author of ten books, including The Politically Incorrect Guide to Immigration and The Politically Incorrect Guide to Catholicism. He is co-author with Jason Jones of “God, Guns, & the Government.”