Sexual Orientation is Fixed, but Gender’s Completely Fluid. And 2 + 2 = 5.

By Joseph Sciambra Published on July 31, 2017

As I wrote in Part One of this series, the theory that gays are “born this way” is not the fruit of science. It’s a political orthodoxy enforced by media, pressure groups, and increasingly the government. It stands in stark and strange contrast to what those same groups want us to think about being male and female. We’re not born that way. “Gender” is fluid and shifting, but “sexual orientation” is fixed.

According to The Human Rights Campaign:

Children are not born knowing what it means to be a boy or a girl; they learn it from their parents, older children and others around them. This learning process begins early. As soon as the doctor announces — based on observing the newborn’s external sex organs — “it’s a boy” or “it’s a girl,” the world around a child begins to teach these lessons.

Sex Is Fluid, Desire Is Fixed

But on homosexuality, we’re ordered to believe that the opposite is true. One is born with homosexual preferences. Sexual orientation is not determined by family or social pressures. But gender is. According to transgender theories, for some people “their own internal gender identity does not match the sex they were assigned at birth.”

Are you writing all this down? It will be on the test.

Sex change operations are fine. But talk therapy aimed at altering sexual cravings is “dangerous,” “barbaric,” and “cruel.”

So if current “science” is right … Let’s see what that would mean. I know I was born a man. Activists tell me that I was “born gay.” What if I’m dissatisfied with that? You know, as transgender people are unhappy with their assigned gender? Am I allowed to try to change it? No, they say. Sexual orientation, unlike gender, “is predetermined and unchangeable.” Any therapy aimed at altering it is unethical and should be illegal.

In fact, the science on sexual cravings is murky. Dr. Simon LeVay, a neurobiologist at both Harvard Medical School and the Salk Institute, has spent much of his career trying to locate a gay genetic determinate for homosexuality. He once wrote:

A person’s sexual orientation is not necessarily a fixed, lifelong attribute. Sexual orientation can change: for example, a woman may be predominantly attracted to men for many years, and perhaps have a happy marriage and children during that time, and then become increasingly aware of same-sex attraction in her thirties, forties, or later. This does not mean that she was concealing or repressing her homosexuality during that earlier period. To argue that she was “really” homosexual all the time would be to change the definition of sexual orientation into something murky and inaccessible.

Change the Body, Not the Soul

So the culture praises people as heroes for surgically altering their bodies to match the “gender” they want to be. (Here they’re absorbing biological sex into the protean word “gender.”) But to try to change my sexual feelings, they insist, is unspeakable and taboo. Any therapist who’d help me with it is a quack. Sex change operations are fine. But talk therapy aimed at altering sexual cravings is “dangerous.” It’s “barbaric” and “cruel.” If I try it I’m labeled “desperate.” By all those oh-so-compassionate progressives.

In the TLC reality program, I Am Jazz, the cameras followed a transgender teenager to discuss, with a kindly looking and smiling physician, the possibility of sex reassignment surgery. This good and caring doctor also monitors Jazz’s ongoing hormone therapy. Such doctors are described as “compassionate” and committed to their work and patients.

In contrast, the doctor who helped me with the reparative therapy I urgently asked for, Joseph Nicolosi, was labeled a bigot and a charlatan. He tried to help those of us, even if we didn’t believe that homosexuality was an inborn trait, who somehow were assigned the wrong sexual orientation. He didn’t prescribe hormones or suggest any type of surgery. No, he listened to our stories and suggested another way of perceiving ourselves and the world.

In Part 3, I will unfold what I learned from reparative therapy, and the role it played in my return to faith in Jesus Christ.

 

 

Joseph Sciambra is author of Swallowed by Satan: How Our Lord Jesus Christ Saved Me from Pornography, Homosexuality, and the Occult.

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  • john appleseed

    So radical surgery to help someone switch sexes is celebrated…
    But mere counseling to help someone switch attractions is illegal in some leftist places.

    • john appleseed

      It appears that only from-homosexual-to-straight persuasion is illegal in those places.
      From-straight-to-homosexual persuasion is celebrated everywhere these days.

      • Kevin Quillen

        not only celebrated but pushed on the youth in schools.

        • glenbo

          >>”not only celebrated but pushed on the youth in schools.”<<
          "Pushed?"
          How so?

  • Howard Rosenbaum

    The view that homosexuality is something other than “normal” or by design has become the cause celeb of the day in “progressive” circles. The biblical precedent regarding this aberration is either ignored or discounted among those who proffer such foolishness. Let me throw a wrench into the works. What if some who profess same sex attraction WERE actually born that way ? What if that evergreen claim is actually correct ? At least for some.
    My point is an honest reading of the scripture leaves no other conclusion than the condemnation of homosexual behavior. The spiritual environment denizens of this planet are born into is not exactly pristine. Is it beyond biblical reasoning that not a “gay gene” but a deliberate effort by malign & subtle influences upon the soul of an intended mark at or before birth is possible ? I don’t subscribe to “a devil behind every doorknob’ theology. I do believe ( along w/Shakespeare ) that there is more going on behind the scenes ( heaven & earth ) than mere philosophy can measure. Yes, much of what passes for culture today has gotten it “a** backwards”. That same culture would categorically reject any suggestion that the reason homosexuality ,as they proffer is the way some of us are born was due to demonic oppression. Gender is about as fluid as a rock. Sexual orientation however as Mr Sciambra implies certainly can be. Both for good or bad. So, why is it practically “anathema’ among believers to agree w/those secular advocates of the “born that way’ narrative except for very different reasons …?

  • Gary

    Its time to face reality. This insanity is the product of wicked hearts and minds. Anyone who supports homosexuality, or transsexuality is EVIL! Their wickedness leads them into insanity. They aren’t nice people who are just confused. They are the enemies of God and God’s people, and the enemies of truth. If you don’t start treating them as enemies, you will eventually find that Christians cannot live in a society run by insane people.

    • John Connor

      What are you going to do about it? Hint- nothing other than sit at your computer and post your diatribes…

      • Mensa Member

        Gary’s post is groan inducing, isn’t it?

        He leads with “It’s time to face reality.” and then he makes claims that are neither in the DSM or the Bible.

        • John Connor

          All of his posts are indicative of one of the many reasons people are leaving religion. They don’t want to be associated with that type of hate.

          • Mensa Member

            I think the polls back you up on that.

            As for me, I’m an Evangelical Christian “exiled’ in an Episcopalian church. My own church is large and growing.

            Most of our growth is from Evangelicals and Catholics who love Jesus but couldn’t take the hate any longer. Some of these are gay but most are straight, like me.

          • Gary

            Both you and John Connor are sons of the devil. And both headed for Hell.

          • Jim Walker

            So your church says you should love your neighbor (and his sin) as yourself ?

          • Gary

            If you think I hate sodomites and their supporters, wait until you see what God does to you.

          • John Connor

            I personally find you entertaining, nothing more….

          • Gary

            OK. But you will not be having any fun when its time to be judged by God.

          • John Connor

            I don’t believe in any supernatural beings, so no worries

          • Gary

            OK with me.

    • Mensa Member

      I don’t support homosexuality or transgenderism. It is what it is.

      But I do support equal rights for American citizens who are gay or trans. And I try to love them as I believe Jesus would.

      I think that makes me a patriotic American and faithful Christian.

      • John Connor

        A voice of reason. Thank you

      • Gary

        Don’t you mean that you support rights based on homosexuality, bisexuality and transgenderism? Your position is anti-Christian. You are not a Christian at all, much less a faithful one.

      • m-nj

        So what does your “I don’t support homosexuality or transgenderism” look like? Just by saying that you would clearly be labeled a “hater” by the LBGTxyz crowd and their supporters in society?

        And what is loving them “as I believe Jesus would” to you? If the first statement above is really what you believe, e.g., that LGBT is sinful, then we know that Jesus would have said, “Go and sin no more.”

        Is that what you say to those you come into contact with (apparently even in your own church, based on your comment below)?

        It seems to me you should be the one suffering from cognitive dissonance unless you really do not believe what you are posting.

        [And as an aside, I do not agree with Gary’s tone, but I do agree with (most) of his statements.]

        • Jim Walker

          So much from a Mensa member who does selective reading and took the stage by patting himself on his back by saying he is a faithful CINO.
          When you have non-believers agreeing with him, like glenbo, John Connor, you can throw out all his christian viewpoints in the bin.

      • Patmos

        “And I try to love them as I believe Jesus would.

        I think that makes me a patriotic American and faithful Christian.”

        So you’re saying the doctor doesn’t come for those who are sick? And that the truth doesn’t set people free?

        It’s abundantly clear that you really really need to get over what you think, and get in line with what God’s word says, if you indeed want to be faithful.

        It is absolutely cringe worthy reading your comments here. I mean, I’ve seen some abominable misinterpretations of scripture before, but yours take the cake.

        • Kevin Quillen

          you are casting pearls my friend. His name says it all. “Mensa member” Too intelligent to see truth.

      • Kevin Quillen

        Jesus would forgive them and then tell them to go and sin no more.

      • JM

        No such thing as pro-LGBT ”Christians” we can love homosexuals but we cannot not support them.

  • Mensa Member

    Most likely, sexual preference is like other human preferences: a highly personal combination of genetic predisposition and life experience.

    The science is not settled but we can be sure that gender attraction is not a simple choice. (or a chosen “lifestyle.”)

    It’s probably not “hardwired” either. But it can seem that way for people born with a strong genetic predisposition.

    • Gary

      The God of the Bible said homosexuality is a sin. Why people engage in that behavior is irrelevant.

      • Mensa Member

        I don’t believe the bible says that. For starters, the word “homosexuality” wasn’t added to the bible until 1946.

        But, the bigger issue is whether homosexuality has significantly changed. For example, back then, it was highly associated with temple prostitution. That is nothing like a loving, committed gay marriage.

        The difference is so huge, the verses don’t apply.

        • Gary

          Yes, they apply. There were homosexuals in Bible times, though the term didn’t exist then. The only sex God recognizes as moral is that between a husband (man) and his wife (woman). All other sex is sin. And God does not allow same-sex marriage.

          • Mensa Member

            There is no single biblical definition of marriage. That fact is obvious to even the most casual reader of the bible.

            Instead, the bible describes godly ways to live within the prevailing culture. This includes the culture’s definition of marriage.

          • Gary

            Wrong. According to the New Testament, marriage is the union of a man and a woman who are qualified to marry each other. That’s it. That’s the limit of marriage in the NT. The culture may have its own ideas, but God makes and enforces his own rules.

          • Mensa Member

            II I said bible and you said New Testament.

            But even the New Testament adopts the prevailing cultural definition of marriage.

            Importantly, marriage in New Testament times was quite different than current marriage, which was defined after the Industrial Revolution.

            It wasn’t even universal back in New Testament times! In Greek and Roman cultures, it was significantly different than in tribal areas. And it was very different between, let’s say, royalty and slaves.

            There were Christians in all those contexts. Nowhere does the bible clarify those different situations. Instead we are given models of how to live within whatever culture we are born to.

          • Gary

            The NT model is one man and one woman in marriage. That’s God’s rule. Those who violate God’s rules will have to pay the penalty that God requires.

          • Mensa Member

            Obviously, your mind is closed to this issue.

            But don’t you experience cognitive dissonance over this? What do you think about Abraham? He broke this supposed “definition” of marriage by having a concubine. Jacob as well, with his second wife. (Don’t get me started on Solomon!)

            Since you believe God God has one singular definition of marriage, why didn’t he establish it when he called out his people? He dictated laws about some of the smallest things. Why not marriage?

          • Gary

            I don’t know why God allowed polygamy in the Old Testament. But you should notice that even in the OT, marriage was heterosexual only.

            In the NT, you find marriage is monogamous. And it is still heterosexual only. And you find that God condemns all sex outside of marriage. Its called adultery or fornication.

          • Mensa Member

            Thanks for your respectful debate. That’s often lacking on the Internet! But I gotta get my day going.

            I agree that there was no such thing as homosexual marriage in the bible. There was also no such thing as legal marriage. Or church weddings.

            Or even free-choice marriage! Except among some fringe groups, there is no such thing as patriarchal, tribal marriage now.

            So many things are profoundly different. So different, it even changes definitions. In order to live as Christians, we have to apply the bible, best we can. Obviously, you and I do that differently but I don’t question your sincerity and love for Jesus.

            Bye.

          • glenbo

            >>”In order to live as Christians, we have to apply the bible, best we can.”<<
            I respect that. What I cannot respect is those who believe the bible must be imposed on others.
            Especially since there is no reason to believe it is true.

          • Gary

            Is someone trying to force you to believe the Bible, or ask God to forgive you, or attend church? If they are, they should stop. If nobody is trying to force you to do those things, what are they trying to force you to do? And who is trying to force you?

          • glenbo

            >>”what are they trying to force you to do? And who is trying to force you?”<<
            Me? Nobody because I am not LGBT.
            Can't you see how religion is forcing itself on LGBT people?
            I.E. by denying them the right to marry…the right to employment…the right to housing…the right to public accommodations?
            Do you really think that religion isn't behind these denials?

          • Gary

            lgbtq have never been denied the ability to marry. They could marry someone of the opposite sex, if they could find someone. Everyone has to find someone who will agree to marry them. And, there are qualifications for marriage. Your birth does not mean you have the right to marry.

            The right to employment? I don’t see how that is a right. Nobody is obligated to employ anyone. Then how could it be a right? Same with housing. By “public accommodations” do you mean the right to use public restrooms? As far as I’m aware, anyone can use a sex appropriate public restroom.

          • glenbo

            >>”lgbtq have never been denied the ability to marry. They could marry someone of the opposite sex,”<>”The right to employment? I don’t see how that is a right. Nobody is obligated to employ anyone. Then how could it be a right?”<<
            There is such a thing as employee rights.
            There are protections for employees. Same thing for housing, and businesses open to the public.

          • Gary

            Nobody has the right to marry anyone they want. You can’t marry someone unless they agree to marry you. You can’t marry someone who is already married, or too young, etc.. There are rules, which I didn’t make, but I think they are good rules. A lot of people don’t marry, for various reasons. Some of their own choosing, and some for other reasons.

            Employee rights, where they exist, only apply to employees. You have no right to demand that someone employ you. Same for housing. Just because you want to live in a house does not mean you get to.

          • glenbo

            >>”Nobody has the right to marry anyone they want. You can’t marry someone unless they agree to marry you.”<>”Employee rights, where they exist, only apply to employees.”<<

            And thank you for clearly admitting that there is no rational reason to fire, evict or refuse service to gay people only because they are gay.

            With your above response, you have been very helpful in advocating for gay rights.

            And for that, I can only say well done.

          • Andrew Mason

            Congrats on promoting child marriage. Any kid that consents to marriage has the right it would seem in your opinion. Most of us believe there’s more to marriage than simply saying yesno – it’s the union of an eligible man + an eligible woman..

            Not sure how you get from employee rights to homosexual rights. Most organisations are commercial and primarily concerned with employee productivity. Those that have a specific focus e.g. a mission organisation, a Christian charity, a mosque, a school, or a homosexual advocacy group may expect staff to share their values and nature, with those who differ e.g. a non-homosexual advocate, being forced out if discovered, or not considered for employment.

          • glenbo

            >>”Congrats on promoting child marriage.”<>”Most of us believe there’s more to marriage than
            simply saying yesno – it’s the union of an eligible man + an eligible woman.”<>”Not sure how you get from employee rights to
            homosexual rights.”<<

            My point is bigotry. Plain and simple.

            Gays are not protected in the workplace or in housing.

            And when you deny them marriage rights, they lose the
            protection of their partners.

            There is no rational reason to deny them any of these
            rights.

          • Andrew Mason

            You seized upon Gary’s comment that consent was required for marriage as being the sole requirement (or restriction) for marriage. From that it logically follows that child marriage should be legal.

            If marriage always will be the union of an eligible man and an eligible woman why try to push homosexual marriage as a thing since that’s quite clearly not marriage?

            Actually homosexuals have plenty of rights. Exactly which depends on the jurisdiction you’re in. By contrast those expressing the historic view of marriage in jurisdictions which have legalised SSM risk their employment, business, and freedom i.e. are second class citizens..

          • glenbo

            >>”There’s not merely plenty of rational reasons to reject SSM, there’s plenty of reasons to be genuinely concerned about the threat of SSM.”<<
            Same sex marriage has been legal in Massachusetts since 2004. That's 13 years.
            Show me one harm it has caused. Just one, please.
            Your prediction of child marriage not only failed to come true in the last 13 years, it never will manifest because minors cannot give legal consent.
            Your "if this happens, then that must happen" doom and gloom threat is not only phony, it is patently absurd.

          • Andrew Mason

            Since you asked, Christian adoption agencies have been expelled from Massachusetts, though I can’t say if that’s directly due to SSM or more generally homosexual supremacy. Haven’t seen any other references, but then Massachusetts doesn’t seem to be in the news. Can’t really give details about some place that usually doesn’t rate a mention.

          • glenbo

            >>”Christian adoption agencies have been expelled from Massachusetts”<<
            Expelled by whom?
            I did a search and found no truth to this statement.
            You are coming across as a habitual liar.

          • Andrew Mason

            Expelled by whom? Presumably by the state. As I said I didn’t see much in the news about Massachusetts. A story gave a one line reference to the expulsion but didn’t specify the details. I’d be speculating that a law was passed whereby the only way they could continue to operate was if they stopped operating as Christian agencies. This is all speculation however. The fact you deem me a habitual liar is … interesting. I reference facts and articles you aren’t aware of, and because you aren’t aware of them you presume they can’t exist it seems. Perhaps I need to supply links to original articles in future?

          • glenbo

            >>”From that it logically follows that child marriage should be legal.”<>”Actually homosexuals have plenty of rights.”<>”By contrast those expressing the historic view of marriage in jurisdictions which have legalised SSM risk their employment, business, and freedom i.e. are second class citizens.”<>”There’s not merely plenty of rational reasons to reject SSM,”<>”there’s plenty of reasons to be genuinely concerned about the threat of SSM.”<<
            Wrong. SSM threatens nobody.
            You have failed to provide one single rational reason.
            Claiming children can legally enter into contracts is irrational.
            Belief in imaginary Gods is irrational.
            Protecting a handful of misguided phony so-called "Christian" bigots (who gladly cater to adulterers)by denying millions of gays and their children the many benefits of marriage is irrational.
            FAIL.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            1. Since when was social security a right ?
            2. What rights were and are they lacking then and what makes them rights then ?
            3. Most of those Christian caters you’re referring too did cater to gays they stopped at ssm as they now felt it would be going against their worldview.
            3. Why is it irrational to deny same sex marriage when we do or did it for polygamy, polyandry, bisexual unions and so on?

          • glenbo

            1) The right to marriage includes transferring of
            Social Security benefits upon the death of a spouse. Therefore, by virtue of the fact marriage allows access to this benefit, access to it becomes a right.

            2) Marriage has 1138 federal + hundreds of state
            rights including fiduciary, insurance, survivor and inheritance. Without a simple piece of paper, gays are denied all these plus many more that benefit children in a same-sex household…children you seem to think are not worthy of being acknowledged. (Yes, gay couples have children too.)

            3) Any problem that a so-called “Christian’ has
            will homosexuality is between the so-called “Christian” and his/her non-existent imaginary god. Making cakes and flowers is not religious conduct, not does selling them to gay couples cause any harm in any way.

            4) Irrelevant to the monogamous union between two
            men or two women.
            What gay people do with their bodies, business and contractual affairs is nobody’s business.

          • Andrew Mason

            False. Kids can enter enter contracts, it merely depends on the nature of the contract and the jurisdiction they’re in. Besides, is marriage a business contract?

            Depends on the jurisdiction you’re in but basically yes. Without scrutinising every law line by line it’s impossible to say if some inequality exists, but it’s impossible to emphatically declare any inequality doesn’t exist.

            Except they’re not violating anti-discrimination laws, those laws are criminalising them based upon their identity. If you’re Christian and speak or act on that identity you’re violating the law hence second class citizens.

            Do you want a list of people losing their jobs, facing bankruptcy, or suffering arrest andor jail because they’re Christian? Try Ake Green, or Masterpiece Cakes. A quick Google on the employment topic keeps giving me hits for Richard Paige which is an associated sacking but not strictly SSM. If you’re serious I can try a proper search.

            No rational reasons? RoFL. I just provided some. Claiming children can enter contracts is not irrational, it simply depends on the jurisdiction in question. I agree belief in imaginary gods is irrational, the issue is disbelief in a real God is equally irrational 😀

          • glenbo

            >>” Kids can enter enter contracts”<>” Except they’re not violating anti-discrimination
            laws”<>” Do you want a list of people losing their jobs,
            facing bankruptcy, or suffering arrest andor jail because they’re Christian?”>” disbelief in a real God is equally irrational”<<

            4) Why?

          • Andrew Mason

            What of employment contracts? The minimum working age varies state to state – some don’t even have a minimum, or at least act as if they don’t.

            A little confused about your #2. I don’t actually recall Kim Davis being arrested, what I recall is her being jailed when she told a judge that she could not compromise her Christian values.

            What workplace laws say no Christianity to be practiced? Honestly I’m not sure, and that’s part of the problem. Christians are sacked for their beliefs, but I’m not seeing the official justification.

            Okay bearing in mind this is a short list – I’m not doing research at present:
            Ake Green – sentenced to jail for a sermon
            Victoria Wasteney – suspended for inviting a friend to church, praying for her, and giving her a Christian book
            Asher’s Bakery – refusing to support SSM
            Masterpiece Cakes – ditto
            Sweet Cakes by Melissa – ditto
            Richard Page – sacked for saying children are best raised by a mum and dad
            Kelvin Cochran – sacked after writing a book for a Bible study group
            Mark Allaby – forced out or fired from his board position
            Archbishop Julian Porteous – hauled before a tribunal for a pastoral letter

            This is a mixture of quick Googling and a few names I recall so should give you a starting point at least. In each case Christians being Christians, and supposedly protected by freedom of religion, are punished for failure to compromise and kowtow to homosexual or other such agendas. In the case of Ashers SSM is not even legal, and yet that didn’t stop the judge ruling against them. Note too that in that case some homosexuals have condemned the ruling as idiotic and dangerous.

            Why is disbelief in something real irrational? Is it rational to disbelieve in the existence of America, or to disbelieve gravity exists? Denying reality can be dangerous and is certainly a rejection of reason and logic.

          • glenbo

            You are telling lies.
            ALL the above violated anti-discrimination laws or policy.
            They got in trouble because THEY BROKE THE LAW.
            They got in trouble because THEY VIOLATED COMPANY POLICY.
            NOT just because they are Christian.

            FAIL.

            You are incoherent.

          • Andrew Mason

            The truth was frequently deemed a lie in 1984 so your assertion is more a reflection of the world you live in than the reality of the situation.

            All the above were persecuted for being Christian. Yes in some cases anti-discrimination legislation was wielded against them, but that same type of legislation is not used to support them. I’d suggest anti-discrimination never protects Christians, but it is possible that cases do exist in some countries where Christians have benefited and I’m not prepared to do sufficient research to exclude all possibilities. As for company policy, is the discussion of religion prohibited by organisations? That would be illegal. What about diversity of staff? Is it expected all staff adhere to a particular ideological niche, or are Christian views tolerated?

            I’m curious if you looked up each name or are simply having a knee-jerk reaction. I’m guessing the latter, but I could be wrong.

            You ask a question, I give a coherent rational response, and you deem it incoherent. Pretty sure that’s a good way to lose a debate, but hey, since when has the Left wanted to debate? Bully, ridicule, assault, verbalise, etc, but not debate. Kudos on doing slightly better than that at least.

          • glenbo

            >>” All the above were persecuted for being Christian.”<<

            What were the charges/offenses/violations listed on the
            court documents?

          • John Connor

            Kids can’t give consent

          • Andrew Mason

            Of course they can, kids agree to things all the time. The only question is what legal rights they have.

          • John Connor

            A child cannot consent to anything of the sort.

          • Gary

            That is not what I did, and you know it. There is no such thing as “gay rights”. Being homosexual does not come with rights. If homosexuals have rights, they are the same ones that heterosexuals have. As a heterosexual, I do not have the right to “marry” another man. And since I don’t have that right, nobody else does either.

          • glenbo

            >>” There is no such thing as “gay rights”.”<<
            Please let me correct this.
            I meant to say human rights.

          • Gary

            The Supreme Court was wrong. The five judges based their decision on the lie that the US Constitution requires ssm to be legal. I refuse to accept their decision.

            If its nobody’s business who one marries, then you should tell the government because they think it is their business.

          • Andrew Mason

            Such an argument also justifies pederasty since if it’s nobody’s business who one marries then the fact the ‘bride’ is an underage boy is nobody’s business and it’s arrogant to suggest otherwise. Of course given the slippery slope precedent – homosexual group ‘marriages’ are the new frontier, it’s entirely possible that abolishing or reducing the age of consent will be the next focus for those demanding ‘equality’ or whatever catchphrase they choose.

          • glenbo

            >>”If its nobody’s business who one marries, then you should tell the government because they think it is their business.”<<
            That's exactly what the court did…the church thought it owned marriage, abused the legislative process and created bans. The court lifted the bans making marriage free for all.
            You have this completely backwards.

          • Gary

            It was the court that abused the legislative process. The judicial branch is not empowered to legislate. They violated their oaths and abused their office.

          • glenbo

            >>”It was the court that abused the legislative process.”<<
            How did same-sex marriage become illegal in the first place?

          • Gary

            It isn’t marriage. That is why it was never considered to be marriage.

          • glenbo

            >>”It isn’t marriage.”<<

            Where did you learn to hate like this?

            Your church?

            The Family Research Council?

            Dennis Prager?

            Mike Pence?

          • John Connor

            LOL!

          • Kevin Quillen

            the supreme court has been wrong several times in the past. Or do you think black people are less the fully human? Look it up.

          • Kevin Quillen

            Gary, you are casting pearls my friend.

          • glenbo

            >>”Gary, you are casting pearls my friend.”<<

            Jesus also said:

            "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you”
            How sad Christians are so un-like Christ.

          • Jason Todd

            Jesus was talking about hypocrisy, you bloody imbecile.

          • glenbo

            >>”you bloody imbecile.”<<
            You can't even comply with your own bible and you attack others as if in an elementary school playground.
            Hate and bigotry will do that to even the best people.

          • Jason Todd

            Which means…what?

          • glenbo

            >>”Which means…what?”<<
            Christians who hate gays are the most hypocritical people on earth.

          • Jason Todd

            Blocked.

          • glenbo

            >>”Blocked.”<<
            Thank you!
            Now I only have one wall to talk to.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            How ?

          • glenbo

            >>”How ?”<<
            Jesus taught to love thy neighbor. If you choose to not do so, you are a hypocrite.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            True Jesus did say that but he also stated this;
            14Now after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of God, 15and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand;e repent and believe in the gospel.”
            (Mark 1:14-15)

          • glenbo

            >>”Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of God,”<<
            So that means I can still own slaves and kill Sabbath Day sinners?

          • Shaquille Harvey

            Again what slaves ? The bible or the Old Testament does not speak of slavery it speaks of indentured servitude.
            As for kill sabbath day sinners

            http://www(dot)tektonics(dot)org/af/ebe19(dot)php

            In short Christians are not living under a Israel theocracy nor are they under complete recognition of the Old Testament(covenant).

          • glenbo

            >>”does not speak of slavery it speaks of indentured servitude.”<>”nor are they under complete recognition of the Old Testament”<<
            Then since Jesus never mentioned homosexuality, gay people can have all the same rights as non-gay people.
            There is no reason to marginalize them.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            Does this “servitude” encompass buying and selling “servant?”
            Actually a person would have to sell themselves into it, usually that person will mostly under desperate circumstances and their in debt.

            “Are these “servant” the property of another? ”
            For this;
            http://christianthinktank(dot)com/qnoslave(dot)html
            Please scroll Down and read all the section that delves into property.

            “Do these “servants” agree to be beaten…to death as part of their contract? ”
            Beaten to death ? No, otherwise the master of the household will be held accountable and be condemned.

            “The bible clearly outlines all the above.”
            Really how ?
            
”Then since Jesus never mentioned homosexuality, ”
            Well then Jesus also didn’t mention pedophilia, beastality etc but that does not mean he would of condoned it. Much of Jesus’s audience of the day were mostly Jews, who would of or would been expected to know and understand the law (Torah). Things like homosexuality would of been understand as something of a sin so would not of needed to be touched on.
            Jesus did speak sexual immorality Mark 7:20 which would of ben list of sexual s sins that would of included but not limited to things like homosexuality.

            Does this “servitude” encompass buying and selling “servant?”
            Actually a person would have to sell themselves into it, usually that person will mostly under desperate circumstances and their in debt.

            “Are these “servant” the property of another? ”
            For this;
            http://christianthinktank(dot)com/qnoslave(dot)html
            Please scroll Down and read all the section that delves into property.

            “Do these “servants” agree to be beaten…to death as part of their contract? ”
            Beaten to death ? No, otherwise the master of the household will be held accountable and be condemned.

            “The bible clearly outlines all the above.”
            Really how ?
            
”Then since Jesus never mentioned homosexuality, ”
            Well then Jesus also didn’t mention pedophilia, beastality etc but that does not mean he would of condoned it. Much of Jesus’s audience of the day were mostly Jews, who would of or would been expected to know and understand the law (Torah). Things like homosexuality would of been understand as something of a sin so would not of needed to be touched on.
            Jesus did speak sexual immorality Mark 7:20 which would of ben list of sexual s sins that would of included but not limited to things like homosexuality.

          • glenbo

            You are a cafeteria “Christian.”
            You need to read you bible more thoroughly.
            The bible clearly states slaves be beaten to death without consequence, can be bought and sold, that children are born into slavery.

            Exodus 21:20,21.
            Exodus 21:12
            Leviticus 25:44

          • Musky

            glenblo is a child-groper

          • glenbo

            >>”glenblo is a child-groper”<<
            Awesome display of childish immaturity.
            You cannot prove your point, resort to elementary school playground name calling.
            Well done, Deputy Dawg.

          • Kevin Quillen

            Christians love queers enough to tell them to stop sinning for their own good. Would you warn someone who is about to do themselves harm? That is all we do.

          • glenbo

            >>”That is all we do.”<<
            None of the LGBT people I know "harm" themselves.
            None are sick or diseased.
            They are professionals, some raising healthy children, hardworking tax paying positive contributors to society.
            Many are Christian.
            "All you do" is obsess with what consenting adults do with their genitalia and torture them.
            You demonize them to the point of suicide.
            You strip them of their rights while marginalizing, humiliating and turning all of society against them. You work with intent to intentionally make their lives miserable while comfortably knowing you will live an eternity in blissful heaven while deliberately making millions on innocent LGBT people's lives a living Hell on earth for irrational reasons
            You can find far more productive and constructive things to do with your time and means. 20,000 children die every day yet you are only interested in producing more and then fixate on torturing a percentage of them.
            Your "love" is false.
            There are millions of people who are in danger, suffering and dying every day and all you can obsess over is what total strangers do with their genitalia.
            Creepy.
            Nice try at pretending to be the hero when in fact are the villain attempting to destroy lives that have done no harm and nothing wrong.
            But you "care" about them?
            What a crock.

          • Gary

            I don’t care about lgbtq. I detest them. And I detest their heterosexual proponents. I wish all of you would eliminate yourselves. The world would be a much nicer place without you.

          • glenbo

            >>” I wish all of you would eliminate yourselves.”<<
            Please get some professional help.
            Good luck.

          • John Connor

            He will get pinned in a corner by you sooner or later and block you. He’s a coward

          • glenbo

            >>”He will get pinned in a corner by you sooner or later and block you.”<>”He’s a coward”<<

            No, not at all. To challenge me takes chutzpa. They simply don't understand their own delusions.

            However, when I trigger their cognitive dissonance, cognitive bias, and confirmation bias, they respond with a backfire effect. They suffer from illusion control, illusion of validity and then launch themselves into irrational escalation also known as the sunk cost fallacy. They often resort to social comparison bias, social desirability bias and conclude with subjective validation to appease themselves. They almost always respond with hostile attribution bias they no longer are able to defend their irrationality.
            All of the above describes with pinpoint accuracy our so-called "Commander in Chief."
            And the sad thing is, everyone I am debating with voted for this despicable moron.

          • JefZeph

            Your car metaphor falls completely flat, as a car doesn’t have an opposite sex.

            Though still not a perfect metaphor, it would be closer to say you have the right to drive a car, but not to drive across town backward. Or from the back seat. Or on the wrong side of the road.

            The true metaphor you’re looking for would be to say that since you’re free to drive a car, it’s OK to ride your lawnmower on the highway. After all, it’s got an engine and four wheels, so it’s just as good as a car. right?

            Marriage can only be between one man and one woman, or it’s not marriage. It’s two men, or two women engaged in a ludicrous parody of marriage.

            It’s topping your lawnmower with a hood, trunk and doors. It’s still not a car.

            It’s a lawnmower.

          • glenbo

            >>” Your car metaphor falls completely flat, as a car
            doesn’t have an opposite sex.”<<

            You completely missed my point, sir.

            My point is when you deny gay people the right to marry, you are intentionally taking away the choice of others for no rational reason.

            You are making decisions for others against their will for
            no rational reason.

            You cannot provide one single rational reason why two men or two women cannot love one another and subsequently marry one another.

          • Gary

            2 men, or 2 women cannot marry because there would be no husband and no wife. A marriage requires both a husband and a wife. That is only possible when a man marries a woman. That is one rational reason why ssm is not marriage.

          • glenbo

            >>”I do not have the right to “marry” another man. And since I don’t have that right, nobody else does either.”<<
            Still none of your business.

          • Gary

            If its none of my business then no one should mind if I don’t accept it.

          • glenbo

            >>”If its none of my business then no one should mind if I don’t accept it.”<<
            As long as your thoughts don't turn into negative behavior, how you "feel" is none of my business.
            But if you act negatively against my LGBT family, friends, clients and employees of which I have many, then it becomes my business.
            Otherwise, why not peacefully coexist?

          • Gary

            I always act negatively toward perverts. And I hope you know and love some of them.

          • glenbo

            >>”I always act negatively toward perverts.”<<
            Where did you learn to hate like this?

          • Gary

            I was born this way. I have the homohater gene.

          • glenbo

            >>”I was born this way. I have the homohater gene.”<<
            Homophobia just like racism is taught.
            I will ask you again…
            What religious source do you get your information from?

          • Gary

            The Bible. Nothing in the Bible about homosexuals but condemnation. Nothing positive whatsoever.

          • glenbo

            >>”Nothing positive whatsoever.”<<
            So I can own slaves?
            There is nothing negative in the bible about slave ownership.
            The bible also says no working on the Sabbath. (4th commandment)
            Why aren't you protesting outside of Walmart every Sunday?
            Or is sex the only thing you can think about?

          • John Connor

            Opinion only. It’s legal in all 50

          • JefZeph

            I’ve addressed your point, you just refuse to acknowledge it. Two men or two women can’t make a marriage any more that two plugs or two sockets can make a circuit. You can try to change the definition of a circuit if you like, but it will still never power the bulb.

          • glenbo

            >>” Two men or two women can’t make a marriage any more that two plugs or two sockets can make a circuit.”<<
            Why must you obsess with what two consenting adults do with their genitalia in the privacy of their bedrooms?
            Creepy!

          • JefZeph

            Wow, were you even responding to me? I was talking about electrical circuits, light bulbs and the definition of the word “marriage”.

            What are you talking about?

          • glenbo

            Oh My Gawd!
            You said:

            >>”two plugs or two sockets can make a circuit.”<<
            It's obvious your concept of marriage is based on procreation and not love.
            Sex, sex sex.
            What's with you creepy so-called "Christians" obsessed and fixated on what two consenting adults do with their genitalia in the privacy of their bedrooms?
            20,000 children die every day in the world.
            Children die of cancer. Millions are suffering due to over crowding and inadequate resources, water, food and medical care.
            Children die attempting to escape from impoverished and corrupt countries, and the only thing the church does is take away birth control and teach that non-procreators are "evil" causing the suicides of LGBT children by the thousands.
            But what are you doing about it? Concentrating on nothing but sex.
            Creepy.
            Immoral.
            Try to do something constructive for this planet for a change.
            Get your mind out of everyone else's pants.
            You only look foolish and creepy.

          • JefZeph

            OK, it is now perfectly clear that you are not actually looking for an answer to your question regarding a rational reason why two men or two women cannot marry. You’re not interested in what I actually say, only what you imagine.

            I never said a thing about sex, genitalia, bedroom activities, procreation or Christianity. I’m trying to have a logical and reasoned conversation with you, but you are clearly not up for it. I’m sorry I’ve wasted my time.

          • glenbo

            >>”you are not actually looking for an answer to your
            question regarding a rational reason why two men or two women cannot marry.”<>”I never said a thing about sex, genitalia, bedroom
            activities, procreation”<<

            You gave an interesting analogy about two plugs, (male) and two sockets (female) making a “circuit.”

            What did this analogy actually mean if it indeed was not
            about sex and procreation?

            And if your reason why same-sex marriage shouldn’t be
            allowed and if it isn’t about sex or procreation, can you please explain to me why same-sex marriage should not be allowed?

            And without any analogy, please?

          • Kevin Quillen

            “Especially since there is no reason to believe it is true.”
            There is ample evidence to prove the veracity of the Bible if one looks for it. You just do not want to find out it is true because you enjoy being queer or defending queers to assuage your guilt.

          • glenbo

            >>”There is ample evidence to prove the veracity of
            the Bible if one looks for it.”<>” You just do not want to find out it is true because
            you enjoy being queer or defending queers to assuage your guilt”<<

            You think I'm gay? What makes you think I'm gay? Simply because I support LGBT rights? You have grossly misjudged me.

            I am heterosexually married with 2 kids. I have relatives,
            friends, employees, clients and neighbors who are LGBT.

            Has your hatred of LGBT people corrupted your ability to
            judge the character of others as you just did me?

            Hmm…you must be a Christian.*

            *Note to Christians…I'm not saying that all Christians are
            judgmental intolerant hateful misinformed bigots…just that most judgmental intolerant hateful misinformed bigots are almost always Christians.

          • Andrew Mason

            Tried looking up any of the archaeological evidence? Or what about the recent story about Canaanite DNA? Written by Biblical illiterates it basically claimed that whereas the Israelites were commanded to eliminate all the Canaanites when they entered the Promised Land, DNA testing has proven that they survived. Of course since the Bible makes clear that the Israelites failed to do as they were commanded it’s really not all that surprising. Note that’s only one recent anti-Christian story which demonstrates the validity of at least one element of Scripture. You could also reference Josephus or Tacitus to confirm that Jesus was a genuine historic figure – and the fact that both reference someone who was relatively speaking a minor no account teacher rather than a national leader or a military leader, suggests He had far more impact than is reasonable.

            Funny I’ve actually found that most judgmental intolerant hateful misinformed bigots are either homosexuals or part of the LGBT cheer squad. Curious that. By contrast the most loving thoughtful people I’ve met have been Christian. Oh it’s probably worth noting that the constant vitriol and hatred spewed by the LGBT crowd doubtless results in more than one intemperate response.

          • glenbo

            >>”By contrast the most loving thoughtful people I’ve met have been Christian.”<<
            Are you one of them?

          • Kevin Quillen

            evidence
            irreducible complexity
            symbiotic relationships
            DNA, 3.1 billion bits of info that are the instructions for a human being
            checkmate

          • glenbo

            >>”odds of DNA happening by chance”<<
            Many cancers, diseases, birth defects, debilitating physiological conditions, etc. are genetic.
            Your "creator" has a sick sense of humor.

          • john appleseed

            God did not allow polygamy in the OT.
            Everyone who practiced it suffered because of it.

          • Patmos

            “What do you think about Abraham? He broke this supposed “definition” of
            marriage by having a concubine. Jacob as well, with his second wife.
            (Don’t get me started on Solomon!)”

            And David also killed a man and took his wife, do you suppose this means it’s what God wanted?

            God’s definition of marriage is established in the very beginning. If get into the Hebrew language it reveals much with the description of Adam and Eve, so much so that the English doesn’t even come close to shedding light on the subject.

            You do realize that the Bible wasn’t written in English don’t you?

            Reading your comments here, it’s truly truly stunning how ignorant you are. The assumptions you make are not even close to being rooted in God’s word.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            How does the New Testament adopt the cultural view or definition of marriage?

          • Mensa Member

            … just a clarifying question. Where do you find this “definition” of marriage in the New Testament?

            There is one place where Jesus describes the prevailing understanding of marriage but it’s not a definition. There is a guideline for church leaders. But where is a definition?

          • Gary

            You will search the NT in vain to find where marriage is defined as anything other than one man and one woman. Read what Jesus said about marriage. Read what Paul said about it. Its all one man and one woman.

          • glenbo

            >>”God makes and enforces his own rules.”<<
            Unless you can prove your imaginary God exists, his rules ONLY apply to those who believe and NOT to everyone else.
            Please keep your religion out of the government.

          • Gary

            God’s rules apply to everyone. If you are too stupid to understand that God is real, that’s another of your many problems.

            You want your beliefs in the government, but you want me to keep mine out so you can have a monopoly. Sorry, I won’t do that.

          • glenbo

            >>”God’s rules apply to everyone.”<<
            If I was a Muslim, would I have the same philosophy?
            That Allah's "rules apply to everyone?"
            Whether you subscribe to those rules or subscribe to the existence of Allah or not?
            Is this what you are saying?

          • Gary

            Is “Allah” real? Is he a god, or Almighty God, or fiction? Time will tell. If Allah is real, and the God of the Bible is fiction, then I could be in trouble. But I don’t believe that is the truth. If you want to believe that all gods are fake, then you run the risks that go with that belief.

          • glenbo

            >>”If Allah is real, and the God of the Bible is fiction, then I could be in trouble. But I don’t believe that is the truth.”<<
            With these 2 sentences, you just equated yourself with all Muslims. Just switch 'Allah' with 'God of the bible' and you are now in a Muslim's shoes.
            With this mindset, you especially equate yourself to fundamentalist Islamic terrorists who are convinced THIER God is the correct God, and that they have divine permission to do exactly what you think YOU have divine permission to do based on the God YOU believe is the correct one.
            To a Muslim, his God is the correct God and only his God's rules "apply to everyone."
            To say that your God's rules "apply to everyone" equates you with a Muslim terrorist.

          • Gary

            God’s applies his rules to everyone. You can violate them, but you have to deal with the penalties that God demands for doing that. God’s rules are not the same as the laws of men. People make laws, and sometimes they enforce them. God has the advantage of knowing who violate his rules and the ability to hold everyone accountable.

          • glenbo

            >>”God’s applies his rules to everyone.”<<

            How do I decide which God is the correct one?
            The God of the bible, or the Allah of the Quran?
            How do I know if Jesus is the true prophet?
            How do I know if Muhammad is the true prophet?

          • Billy Chickens

            Figure it out. Either Jesus and the Bible are true or Muhammad and the Quran are true. It’s one or the other. Both cannot be true. One is a lie. You have to either believe in love and life or hate and death. Your choice.

          • glenbo

            >>”One is a lie. “<<
            Perhaps both are lies.

          • Jason Todd

            There is no one here that has to prove anything to you. Period.

          • glenbo

            >>”There is no one here that has to prove anything to you.”<<
            Then you have no business speaking with any degree of authority on the subject of same-sex marriage.

          • Jason Todd

            What does that have to do with the subject at hand?

          • glenbo

            >>”What does that have to do with the subject at hand?”<<
            Give me your best reason why gay people should not get married and you will see what I mean.

          • Jason Todd

            There is no single biblical definition of marriage.

            Genesis 1 and Matthew 19.

            Sorry about that, Chef.

        • Shaquille Harvey

          This not quite the truth;
          http://www(dot)tektonics(dot)org/qt/romhom(dot)php

          (Please replace dot with real dot and remove brackets)

        • Jason Todd

          I don’t believe the bible says that. For starters, the word “homosexuality” wasn’t added to the bible until 1946.

          Which means nothing; whether the word is there or not is not relevant.

    • Jason Todd

      The science will never be settled.

      Science always changes. God never does.

      • John Connor

        Proof of gods existence?

  • Josh Shapiro

    Joseph, do you mind posting a picture of your wife and children?

    • Shaquille Harvey

      Again why ?

      • Jason Todd

        See my comment to Jennifer above.

        • John Connor

          Keep it up blocker boy!

    • Jennifer Hartline

      What is your point, Josh?

      • Jason Todd

        Josh is an atheist troll that’s making a personal attack on Joseph Sciambra. My guess is he’s trying to challenge whether Joseph is truly a former homosexual, but he’s doing it in a way that would compromise the safety of Joseph’s family. Flag his posts and make him go away.

        • John Connor

          Once homosexual always homosexual.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            States who ?

    • Jason Todd

      Go to hell, Josh.

      • John Connor

        You first.

  • glenbo

    I’m not sure I can trust someone who claims to have found
    Jesus after allegedly being a gay porn star and fabricates so-called “gay
    diseases” and claims that “gay sex anally births the devil.”

    That nonsense aside, the gender of others, whether “chosen,”
    “confused,” or “fluid” is NOBODY’S BUSINESS.

    The sexual orientation of others is NOBODY’S BUSINESS.

    What 2 men or 2 women do with their genitalia in the privacy
    of their bedrooms is NOBODY’S BUSINESS.

    Please, America…get your creepy minds out of everyone else’s
    pants. Can’t you find more important things in this troubled world to be concerned
    about?

    Creepy!

    • Shaquille Harvey

      So then why do they push for, the LGBT agenda constantly ?

      • glenbo

        >>”So then why do they push for, the LGBT agenda constantly?”<<
        Can you please clarify 2 thing?
        Who is/are "they."
        What is the LGBT "agenda?"

        • Shaquille Harvey

          Possibly this agenda

          http://m(dot)washingtontimes(dot)com/news/2016/may/18/de-blasio-fine-businesses-wrong-gender-pronouns/

          ( please replace dot with real dot and remove brackets)

          • glenbo

            >>”Possibly this agenda”<<
            I didn't realize that wanting to be respected could be construed as having an "agenda."
            I guess I better not say happy holidays…ever!
            FAIL.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            1. What respect ? Especially when this encroaches upon other people’s freedom.
            2. “I guess I better not say happy holidays…ever!”
            You do realise that phrase, happy holidays, has been more of a replacement term for happy/ merry christmas!?

          • glenbo

            >>”What respect ? Especially when this encroaches upon other people’s freedom.”<<
            Please explain how respecting other people "encroaches" on your freedom.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            When reading the article above things like this will encroach on people’s freedoms by 1. For those who refuse to accept or acknowledge gender pronouns that goes against your values, worldview and your comprehending cognitive objective basis of thinking. 2. By restricting what people can and can’t say in fear of being sued or fined to appease a small minority, while upholding thier freedoms to a high basis but restricting your freedoms including, in this case as well, your first amendment rights.

          • glenbo

            1) & 2):
            How are your religious freedoms denied by being respectful to others? How are your “values” altered?
            All I am seeing is you fear loosing the “freedom” to practice bigotry. How tragic.
            FAIL.

          • Andrew Mason

            Oh I get it now, death threats, violence, and expression of vitriol and hatred is how the LGBT crowd express their respect for other people. Presumably you also support ISIS’ respectful support for homosexual rights in the areas they and their like minded brethren control.

          • glenbo

            >>”Oh I get it now, death threats, violence, and expression of vitriol and hatred is how the LGBT crowd express their respect for other people.”<<
            Actually, it is how the LGBT "crowd" expresses their anger for being intentionally disrespected and mistreated for no logical reason…just like blacks did before the civil rights act.
            Perhaps if Christians stopped acting exactly like racists, this "vitriol" wouldn't occur.
            Christians cannot cry victim when they are held responsible for being the aggressors.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            Again what respect? As I stated in my above comment, by denying the right for others to go against the values, and worldview, or objective basis of thinking or what you dont acknowledge to hold truth. There is a difference between being or showing respect to others or individuals even if you don’t completely agree with them or their choices, also by not harming them or a particular group and allowing freedom(s) as a whole without having to compromise your freedoms, morale, values or rights. The article as well as what I stated of it not only goes against people’s basic freedom of what to say, like the first amendment and basic objective use of language and the understanding of human male and female. This gives a tiny minority more status over the people but allows them as well as the government to dictate of what the general public can and can’t say, it especially goes against those other freedoms which are already set in motion such as religious liberty and those whose beliefs or world-views goes against this. This is not respecting people it is giving a group high status and restricting other people’s freedoms its bullying and the actual form of bigotry.

          • glenbo

            Nobody’s freedoms, values, morals and rights are impinged by two men or two women getting married.
            For 13 years in Massachusetts where SSM has been legal, nobody has suffered any harm.
            If you somehow think being denied the freedom to practice your bigotry can be construed as “harmful,” or is “bullying,” you are seriously deluded.

      • Jason Todd

        Glenbo is a troll. Block him.

        • John Connor

          Run and hide. Too funny!

  • Andrew Mason

    Black is white, up is down, good is evil, welcome to 1984.

  • Jeremy L

    Is Sciambra attracted to men or is he not? That’s what I’d like to know. The things he writes seem to imply he latched onto seedy communities of gay men because he was an outcast who felt lonely. It isn’t impossible he would get involved with these gay men while being attracted to women the whole time simply because he was lonely and felt like a loser. But let’s say Sciambra was attracted to men during his horrible experience in SF. Has his attraction been changed since leaving the life he once led? Does he like women now? Or did Nicolosi simply take advantage of Sciambra’s emotions and negative experiences in order to get his money? It sounds like Sciambra has been conned into thinking gay people at large are the source of his problems when really his self-esteem issues came from working in porn and letting people take sexual advantage of him. If Sciambra is gay and wants to be straight, I don’t blame him considering what he went through and the impression he’d get of gay men. But while you can change the sexual behavior you initiate or else consent to, you cannot change that which you are attracted to or aroused by. People with nonconventional sexual desires have a long history of trying and failing to be attracted to “normal” things. Even if we want to say sexual orientation can be fluid, its fluidity is never something the person is in control of. Trying to change something that just won’t budge while being convinced you can change it if you just “try hard enough” can cause people to consider themselves failures. If you are gay and want to be celibate for religious reasons or otherwise, that’s great, but it’s better to accept that you are attracted to what you are attracted to rather that fruitlessly try to “change” it.

    • DCM7

      Sorry, but there are far too many true cases of people successfully leaving same-sex attraction behind, and being far better off for it, for your bottom-line point to have any validity.

      The difficulty of leaving behind same-sex attraction too often gets painted as total impossibility, and its deep-seatedness too often gets painted as a state of being inborn and inherent.

      You’re speaking in terms of what we’re popularly supposed to believe. I’m speaking in terms of what actually is the case.

      • Jeremy L

        Plenty of people would lie about being no longer attracted to the same sex in order to gain full social acceptance. Plenty of people would also convince themselves that they truly aren’t attracted to the same sex anymore even though they are. Again, because of social pressure. Outward behavior does not change what is inside. All we have to go by are what people claim. Unless we strap people down and expose them to different erotic materials to see how they respond physiologically, we won’t know if their claims about their attractions match their actual attractions. People can easily act as if a change has happened. Doesn’t meant it has. That’s why one should be skeptical.

        • DCM7

          The “skepticism” you put forth is so broad that it could be applied to anything, with no amount of evidence ever being able to counter it. It comes off as an excuse to reject something out of hand without being willing to actually investigate it.

          “Outward behavior does not change what is inside.” — Tell that to someone who really has changed (or maybe I should say “has been changed”) on the inside. That would include me (with an issue other than same-sex attraction). Easy? No. Quick? No. Done without help? No. Real and deep? Yes.

          Besides, one has to keep in mind that overcoming same-sex attraction — as with other issues — isn’t a matter of reversing some sort of inner “orientation.” It’s a matter of addressing a deep-seated issue, honestly examining its roots, and changing both behavior and thinking over a period of time. The expectation that some magical “switch” has to be suddenly flicked doesn’t work with other issues, and it doesn’t work with this one either.

          • Jeremy L

            There is no evidence that being attracted to the same sex results from an “issue” someone is having. Even if the often-cited “daddy issues” or alleged sexual abuse at a young age did happen, correlation does not equal causation. Are the same-sex attracted people reporting no trauma or issues in their lives lying? What of the heterosexual people who were distant from their fathers and/or sexually abused when young? Why are they not afflicted with same sex attraction? Does same sex attraction “just happen” without any underlying issues? If there is no underlying issue to address, can the same sex attraction still be changed?

            It is much more plausible that attraction to the same sex is indeed an orientation. There must always be a biological component in why we find certain things/people sexually attractive, no matter if the sexual attraction is “abnormal”. Say being attracted to the same sex is a “disease” if you like, but everything we know about sexuality shows us it is highly complex and deeply ingrained in us and cannot just be swayed by an unfortunate life event. Having automatic erotic responses to good-looking people of the same sex appears to be just as innate as having similar responses to people of the opposite sex. Like opposite sex attraction, same sex attraction does not develop from mental issues or personal problems or traumas and cannot be “overcome” easily or with difficulty. These people never had opposite sex attractions and opposite sex attractions (or ANY sexual attractions) cannot just spring out of nowhere, no matter how you change your behavior and mindset, no matter how long you wait for these desired attractions to arrive, and no matter how many people you get to convince you that you’ll “of course” get them one day.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            “It is much more plausible that attraction to the same sex is indeed an orientation. There must always be a biological component in why we find certain things/people sexually attractive, no matter if the sexual attraction is “abnormal””
            Why ? Why must it be biological ? Why can’t it be environmental, nature or another option? Why must it be innate? This appears to be a non sequitur here. Also if we are to take your statement and ring true overall, what then? For if you state “There must always be a biological component” aren’t you just basically opened the door for all other things we deem abnormal?

          • Jeremy L

            It must be biological and innate because, well, people do not get’sexually aroused by certain things because they learned to or because they were told to. There’s no debating that. If it is purely psychological, I would be stunned. Because that would mean genes and hormones are irrelevant to sexuality. If you really can affect that which “turns someone on” by mere suggestion or social influence, then that would be absolutely extraordinary.

            All things with the body considered “abnormal” do have to be biological, except in the case of injury. There is biology behind being autistic. Behind having dwarfism. Behind having Down’s Syndrome. We don’t typically deride people for having these “abnormalities”. You can call being attracted to the same sex a disorder if you prefer. Perhaps environment plays a role, but certainly environment is not wholly responsible. But whether or not same sex attraction can be “cured” or should be “cured” is debatable. Mr. Sciambra, who worked in porn of all things, is saying “yes” to both because he’s bitter about what other gay men did to him. As such, he is biased on this issue.

          • DCM7

            Much of what you say consists of hypotheticals that are demonstrated as utterly false by many peoples’ experiences. At the same time, you happen to brush against one valid point: that the environmental factors commonly involved in same-sex attraction wouldn’t affect everyone the same way. People with certain dispositions are clearly far more likely to end up with same-sex attractions than others. This could be considered a “biological component,” but it is a very long way from “gay is 100% inborn and that’s it.”

            “Are the same-sex attracted people reporting no trauma or issues in their lives lying?” — Some no doubt are (I’m aware of at least one prime example among “gays” I’ve known), but others may just be unaware of what factors affected them and how.

            “sexuality [is] deeply ingrained in us and cannot just be swayed by an unfortunate life event.” — Here you’re starting to contradict tons of firm knowledge about the psychology of abnormal sexuality. By this logic, every pedophile, porn addict, etc., had to have been “born that way” with no experiential factors ever coming into play. And surely you know as well as I do that this is nonsense.

            “These people never had opposite sex attractions” — People who overcome unhealthy attractions have a strong tendency to discover normal attractions that had been covered up. But even those still caught up in them can have opposite sex attractions to some extent. That’s why there’s a whole spectrum from “100% gay” thru “bisexual” to “100% straight.” Unhealthy attractions vary in the extent to which they cover up normal sexuality. Besides, overcoming homosexual behavior doesn’t mean someone should be expected to jump right into normal marriage, or that they should necessarily even want to be involved with the opposite sex. It just means something unhealthy that was dominating their lives has been gotten out of the way.

            Overall you show quite a bit of thought and intelligence in your posts, but you ultimately seem to be informed by the theory of what we’re all “supposed” to believe rather than by actual discovery.

          • Jeremy L

            I appreciate that you acknowledge I show thought and intelligence, and I acknowledge that you do too. But obviously we’re going to be informed by different theories because we would be drawn to different theories based on our experience, values, etc. I happen to think that pedophiles are born that way as well. But that of course doesn’t follow that they should act on their attractions. Porn addiction is something that is clearly learned, like any other addiction, and it transcends sexual orientation. I’m not totally closed off to the idea that atypical sexuality has ambiguous origins, just like atypical psychological states. For example, it’s said that a person is born a psychopath but is made a sociopath. Both very similar conditions thought to have opposite causes. But in the end, Sciambra’s story is just one story and doesn’t represent “gay life” as a whole. “Acting on” same sex attraction doesn’t have to be the horror fest he says it is. I simply think that for some people, same sex relationships work fantastically even if others doubt it and I think the success of these relationships would not be possible if the same sex attraction had negative origins or is merely temporary.

        • Shaquille Harvey

          What gain acceptance and social pressure?

          • Jeremy L

            There’s immense pressure on lots of same-sex attracted people to “just be normal”. Not all of them live in accepting communities. Many of them find they cannot “make” themselves “normal”, so they pose as “normal”.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            Yes there some but where and especially in a political and pro LGBT climate in the west today?

          • Jeremy L

            You’d be surprised about the unfortunately unaccepting and even abusive home lives of many young gay people. It is often a social obstacle for even independent adults. At least in the deep South in the United States. I can’t speak for elsewhere. It would simply be much easier, socially, to be what is “normal”, no matter where you are. That’s where the pressure comes from.

  • God bless Joseph who perfectly exposes the lies of the secular/atheist/liberal/progressive/left, and their shameless hypocrisy. Truth will always eventually overcome lies.

    • Boris

      Yes and science has crushed religion.

      • That’s funny. And exactly how has it done that?

        • Boris

          Evolution by Natural Selection. That’s No. 1. Final nail: Neuroscientists have used experiments and demonstrations to prove that human free will is an illusion. People will still ignore these facts for a few more decades. But eventually Christianity will be just too absurd for anyone to buy into.

          • That’s even funnier. If human free will is an illusion, then your thoughts are an illusion, and you are an illusion. Seriously, stop before you hurt yourself. It’s embarrassing.

          • Boris

            What is embarrassing is your completely disjointed train of anti-logic. Our thoughts are not illusions we just don’t know what our next thoughts are going to be. What is even more embarrassing for you is that instead of looking into this by availing yourself of some of the scientific literature on the subject you want to argue about something you know absolutely nothing about. And even worse because you’ve been indoctrinated into the Christian system of superstitions you actually believe you already know better than the scientists who actually work in the field. That is a special kind of arrogance that should embarrass you and will once you find out just how wrong you are. About everything.

          • Boris, your epistemology, it’s called scientism, is what is embarrassing. And it is self-refuting. I always promise that I won’t get in internet spats with fundamentalist atheists, but the sheer arrogance always drags me in. What is wrong is the idiocy of a worldview, yours, that believes (yes, Boris, you live by FAITH because you can’t PROVE your philosophical and metaphysical assumptions) everything came from nothing for no reason at all. Now that’s embarrassing! You can spew more of our (embarrassing) vacuous assertions, but I won’t be reading them Cheers!

          • Boris

            That the universe came from nothing is a religious claim, not a scientific one. Please read the scientific literature on the subjects you claim to be an expert on. Oh that’s tight, you must keep your thoughts in captivity and never expose them to ideas contrary to what OTHER PEOPLE have frightened you into believing. The universe as we observe it now expanded from something that already existed. You see the mass/energy that comprises the universe has always existed in one form or another. The fact that you could never disprove this is the fatal flaw in your First Cause Argument What is so amazing. The expansion of the universe is a field of study that requires an intensive understanding of the various aspects of quantum field theory including quantum electrodynamics and quantum chroma-dynamics as well as super symmetry in relativity and each of these areas of study require a mastery of the mathematical prerequisites including differential and partial differential equations, non-euclidean geometry, vector calculus, linear algebra and operator algebra just to name a few. This is the arrogance that underlies creationism, the notion that a lay person can sit back and idly think about a discipline that takes years to understand much less master and disprove it with facile, simple minded arguments.

  • Gary

    According to the Bible, God condemns homosexuals. Christians accept God’s decision. Homosexuals and their supporters deny that God condemns homosexuals either by denying that God exists, or denying that God really condemns homosexuals. As these comments below prove, there can be no agreement between the two sides.

    • glenbo

      >>”According to the Bible, God condemns homosexuals”<<
      Why?

      • Royce E. Van Blaricome

        Because He’s God. Try a Dictionary. Look up “God”.

        Of course that will likely require you to continue to look up words like Creator, Ruler, Source, All, Moral, Authority and Supreme.

        And ya know what? God does NOT owe you ANY explanation whatsoever. You can spend ALL Eternity in the torment of the Lake Of Fire and just keep asking, “Why God? Why won’t you explain yourself to me?” Only to find you won’t hear a peep.

        • glenbo

          There is no reason for me to believe in God.

          • pygmallian

            May I ask , what is your reason for being?

          • glenbo

            >>”May I ask , what is your reason for being?”<<
            Life requires no reason or purpose.
            What is the reason Malaria and Zika viruses exist?

          • pygmallian

            I cannot imagine living with the thought my life has no reason or purpose. You are so much greater than a virus. You can think reason you can love you can hate perhaps you can change the world . You can certianly make a huge impact on your world.

          • glenbo

            >>”You can certianly make a huge impact on your world.”<<
            What is your purpose in life?

          • pygmallian

            I didn’t know my purpose in life when I was young. Had I followed what I thought was my purpose I would be a lawyer right now. I remained open to someone greater then myself, someone who could create this magnifigant universe with such precise presision that should one planet be even a fraction off, the entire universe might implode! Someone that great must know better than I what my puspose was; so, through trials and happenstance my husband and I together had six biological children and six adopted children. I now have 11 grandchildren. I always knew someone greater than myself, God, created me and created me for a reason. I thank Him daily that in spite of my natural self centredness, left to my own device I am actualy quite self centred, I left a little opening for Him to work . The reason for my being has become more obvious to me as I have aged. Alhtough I have two degrees my purpose was fullfilled in being a mother. Thank you for asking. 🙂

          • glenbo

            Perhaps I was wrong when I said there is no purpose in life.

            Perhaps there is a purpose to my life.

            Since 2008 when there was 2 same-sex marriage amendments on the ballots: Prop 8 California, and amendment 2 in Florida, I was baffled as to why anyone would care why 2 people who love each other couldn’t do so. My best friend at the time was a gay sociology professor. I learned a lot from him.

            Both antigay amendments passed and ads on TV were shocking. Many told lies outright, but the ones that got me were those that claimed denying gays rights would “strengthen” and “protect” and “defend” marriage.

            I don’t see how.

            My purpose now I guess would be to pursue to protect the rights for my LGBT family members, friends, clients and employees. None of them do any of the lies the religious right conservative hate groups claim they do. Traditional marriage is and always be intact. Marriage always will be allowed between 1 man and 1 woman.

            Transgendered people are grossly misunderstood and attacked with ludicrous vile lies.

            I came to the conclusion that not only were these hateful amendments were strictly religion sponsored, but that the church was out to do everything in its power to prevent any validation of non-procreative behavior.
            It is so obvious as to why, especially on an already overpopulated planet. And it doesn’t matter what…gays are NOT to be validated in any manner. It made no
            sense other than for the benefit of the churches coffers…or so they presume.

            So why the fuss over what adult do with their genitals and pregnancies? Because the church need future babies to ensure its job security. It certainly doesn’t care about the “sanctity of life.” Nobody in their right mind
            who “cared” about life would so viciously and diligently work towards harming innocent people as the church does. But hey, it’s what they do.

            Why? Because the church need future babies to ensure its job security.

            I realized this in 2008 when I put it all together…homosexuality, abortion and of all things, birth control are in the church’s cross hairs. Procreative behavior is more important than the 20,000 children that die daily of malnutrition, disease, cholera, and lack of medical care. Daily! All while the church and God turn their backs on them and obsess and fixate on what consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedrooms, or
            what women do with their uteruses…because “life is sacred.” Baloney.

            And on top of that, the church protects its child rapists.

            I love my LGBT family members and my dear LGBT friends…I have plenty including 3 trans friends and a trans niece.

            The demonization and relentless persecution of these wonderful people I dearly love who have done no wrong is a travesty of justice, religion and morality.

            I indent to correct this with all my power and ability. The pen is mightier than the sword.

            So, pygmallian…you have indeed touched when you mentioned my life having a reason, purpose and impact.

            I intend to fight these bigoted mindless numbskulls who attach my loved ones and friends for no rational reason other than because of their non-existent imaginary slavery and rape condoning and child murdering God who has no explanation why gays are to also be murdered.

            No loving, just and benevolent God would do this. But a greedy church would.

            Yes…my life does indeed have a purpose. A purpose that will hopefully make the lives of millions upon millions of LGBT people who have done nothing to deserve the irrational, horrible and immoral treatment they have gotten better.

            Thank you.

          • pygmallian

            I actually understand your point and why you’re so angry. I also know if you actually studied what the church teaches, not just what you’re told it teaches, and why teaches what it does, perhaps you will understand why the church defends traditional marriage. The destruction of traditional marriage came at the hands of heterosexuals not homosexuals, with no fault divorce. Marriage, traditionally, has been the contract between a man and a woman and the state because it was the foundation to raise children who are the future of society or tribe or what have you. Marriage between a man and a woman predates Christianity. Homosexuals and heterosexuals can never be cool because the latter requires outside intervention to create children whereas in hetrosexuals it is not it’s just a natural occurrence. The optimum environment for a child is with the biological mother and father.

            the Church is guided by the Natural law. We cannot fight nature because nature will always win. Every species in nature has it’s own reproductive system. The natural law applies to marriage for the sake of the children. everyone has forgotten about the children the reason marriage is so i.portant for the continuance and stability of a society. We are conducting huge experiments on our children, redefining marriage, with the idea that anyone could be parents two three four people whatever give mennthree woman maybe a mixture what abput these children!!!!

            If nature dictates a child needs a mother and a father because both contribute something unique to the emotional development of the child, nature will be correct and the children in this experiment will not develop to their optimum. Eventually society destabilizes as the children raose children and so on. Great civilizations have fallen on this sword when their societies sanctuoned divorce when divorce and sexual behavior was considered a recreational activity. The mighty Roman Empire crumbled when it lost its moral grounding.

            I am not antigay. I have never heard homosexuals preached against in a Catholic church snd I’ve been practicing Catholic for 54 years. My cousin was one of the first to die of AIDS in my province. He was surrounded by large and very catholic Irish family in his dying days. His partnet was also sypportes by us. We all knew he was gay and didn’t bat an eye. every community had its life long baxhelors who lived in peave and prospered. allot was also done wrong towards the homoswxual cimmu ity . most has been rwctufied you are very wrong if you think Christianity is the problem. The civilized nations who prospered were Christian. Europe both east and west. While I understand your anger, based on what you seem to believe, allot of what you read is b******* , to be honest with you.

            I thank you for your reply and I sincerely wish you the best fulfilling your purpose in life. Based on what you wrote, you will be a formidable advocate. As someone who has spent my adult life advocating for children, I respectfully ask you to always keep in mind the best interest of the child.

          • glenbo

            Thank you for your pleasant response. I’m not used to people being nice to me on these blogs. Conversing with you is refreshing after what I have been through.

            I am not angry. I am a loving caring person who has
            relatives, friends, clients and employees who are LGBT. I am heterosexually married with 2 children.

            I am disappointed with how society treats LGBT people and the reasons as to why are illogical.

            Since you have been thoughtful enough to engage me in
            conversation, I am curious about some of the statements you made. And if you don’t mind, I would like your opinion on a few points.

            I have composed 3 questions, and if you can please answer them honestly and heart fully, I will be greatly appreciative.

            I have quoted a few of your statements and posed 3 simple questions as follows. It is important to me for you as a Catholic to give me the best answers you can. I would like to thank you in advance. Please feel free to take your time. No immediate response is necessary. Honesty and accuracy is my most favorite virtue second only to integrity.

            You said:

            >>” Church is guided by the Natural law”<>” If nature dictates a child needs a mother and a
            father because both contribute something unique to the emotional development of the child, nature will be correct and the children in this experiment will not
            develop to their optimum.”<>” As someone who has spent my adult life advocating
            for children, I respectfully ask you to always keep in mind the best interest of the child.”<<

            3) How does denying a same-sex couple with children the 1138 federal + hundreds of state rights and benefits many of which are tailored for the well-being of children within a marriage benefit those children within a
            same-sex household?

          • pygmallian

            Hello, I have just returned from a brief road trip with six of my chidlren. In Canada this was a long or holiday weekend so we took a quick two day drive through some of our beautiful Rocky Mountians. I will read your questions carefully and try to respond tomorow. Til then, Cheers!

          • pygmallian

            2) When a child’s biological parents are divorced and the
            custodial parent is gay, why should the custodial parent be denied the right to marry a same-sex partner, but be allowed to marry an opposite sex partner?

            In secular law the custodial parent should not be denied the right to marry a same sex partner.

            My question is what is in the best interests of the child? We are engaged in a huge social experiment by redefining marriage. We really have no idea what the outcome will be for the children in such unions although data is available,and so is testimony from many children raised by SS parents. I don’t know how much the gay community has changed but such relationships, specifically amongst males, was what one might call very active. Male homesexuals usually have many partners. Studies have proven that children are at 40% higher risk in single parent homes living when the biological parent is living with a non biological parent. This is fact and as fact it put the child at higher risk. I have worked with sexually abused children, under age prostitutes, and mediated between victims and their abusers. Sexual abuse can leave hideous life altering scars. The risk are too great!

            Are you aware that not all homosexuals approved or wanted SSM and for different reasons? Some are honest that it is not equal to mother and father, while others did not want the culture of the gay community to change. With SSM they are concerned the gay community will have to adapt to the same expectations of heterosexual relationships, monogamous relationships. These men are very honest and I applaud them for their honesty. Only time will tell how the community evolves and adjusts to SSM and how it affects the children.

            Redefining marriage has opened the doors for polygamy and all sorts of creative unions. It was never about the adults in the first place. We have completely lost site of the reason for the institution of marriage. It is all about the adults now, children are a second thought if any.

          • glenbo

            >>” We really have no idea what the outcome will be
            for the children in such unions although data is available,”<> Male homosexuals usually have many partners.”<>” Studies have proven that children are at 40%
            higher risk in single parent homes living when the biological parent is living with a non biological parent.”<>” I have worked with sexually abused children, under
            age prostitutes, and mediated between victims and their abusers. Sexual abuse can leave hideous life altering scars”<>” Are you aware that not all homosexuals approved or
            wanted SSM and for different reasons?”<>” Only time will tell how the community evolves and
            adjusts to SSM and how it affects the children.”<>” Redefining marriage has opened the doors for
            polygamy and all sorts of creative unions.”<>” We have completely lost site of the reason for the
            institution of marriage. It is all about the adults now, children are a second thought if any.”<<

            Nonsense.

            Marriage is about two people in love wishing to commit and protect each other as well as their children.

            Pygmallian, you have failed to provide a single rational
            reason to deny gay people the right to marry.

            You have persistently attempted to demonize ALL gays based on questionable research.

            Yours is the same old song and dance of anti-LGBT hate groups such as the FRC, ADF, AFA, Focus on the Family and Nom. Are you one of them?

          • pygmallian

            How does denying a same-sex couple with children the 1138 federal + hundreds of state rights and benefits many of which are tailored for the well-being of children within a marriage benefit those children within a marriage benefit those children within a same-sex household?

            Again this question concerns legal law. Now that the law has changed the definition of marriage to include same sex partners, denying them any legal benefits doesn’t make sense. Laws needs to be congruent.

            I wish you all the best in your future endeavors, especially raising your two chidlren, nothing compares to having our children does it? 🙂

          • glenbo

            >>” denying them any legal benefits doesn’t make sense”<<

            Therefore, denying gay couples with children doesn’t make
            sense?

            Yes!!!

            Well said!!!

            How about answering question 1?

            What is “Natural Law?”

        • Boris

          “Look up “God” Definition: Imaginary deity believed in by idiots.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Thank you for the public display of ignorance, willful and intentional attempt to deceive, and outright lie.

            1. (in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
            synonyms: the Lord, the Almighty, the Creator, the Maker, the Godhead; More
            2. (in certain other religions) a superhuman being or spirit worshiped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.
            synonyms: deity, goddess, divine being, celestial being, divinity, immortal

            A wise man once said it is better to keep your mouth shut and not show your ignorance than open it and remove all doubt. You should work on your wisdom a bit.

            “Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools speak because they have to say something” – Plato

            “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. (John 8:44)

            “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” (Rom. 3:13-14)

            A fool does not delight in understanding, But only in revealing his own mind. (Prov. 18:2)

          • Boris

            Oh yeah, morality comes from the most evil character in all of fiction. ROFL! The Christian God makes Adolf Hitler look like the choir boy he was for so many years. In fact Jesus and Martin Luther were Hitler’s inspiration for the Holocaust.THAT is Christian morality. First you have to prove that the magical wizard you call God actually exists. Go ahead try, I find your “proofs” hilarious and as stupid as anything I have ever seen or heard. Besides what your God is quoted as saying in the Bible. The Bible God is also the stupidest character in all of literature. Men have never been able top invent a God that was smarter than they are. That’s why the God you worship is so incredibly stupid, not to mention evil. The Christian God has the mind, manners and morals of a small, spoiled, ill-tempered idiot child. Just like you. Those Bible verses are some of the many defenses against free inquiry and critical thinking that are in the mind numbing, brain killing Bible. The books of the Bible were written by men to get other stupid men to follow them blindly. And so you follow these other men. Have fun with that. And stay away from small children,

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” (Rom. 3:13-14)

            Like a dog that returns to its vomit is a fool who repeats his folly. (Prov. 26:11)

            A fool does not delight in understanding, But only in revealing his own mind. (Prov. 18:2)

            In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion,[3] often for their own amusement.

            From Psychology Today: “Internet Trolls Are Narcissists, Psychopaths, and Sadists. An Internet troll is someone who comes into a discussion and posts comments designed to upset or disrupt the conversation. Often, in fact, it seems like there is no real purpose behind their comments except to upset everyone else involved. Trolls will lie, exaggerate, and offend to get a response.”

          • Boris

            Again, do you have any actual evidence that that this wizard you call God actually exists? You don’t and you know it. Jesus Christ never existed and when people see that they run to look and see what they can find that could prove me wrong. And they never find a thing and that puts doubt in their minds. That doubt grows and grows and grows until we have a new atheist. They usually thank me profusely for helping them see the light. Thanks for promoting such a retarded religion that is so easy for people to see through once they take off the blinders of fear and superstition. Something a frightened child like you will never be man enough to do.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            “Jesus Christ never existed”

            Thank you for the fine public display of complete lunacy. Only the totally deluded and completely blind bigots don’t accept that Jesus Christ is a historical fact.

            As for the rest of your blather, your self-deluded faux omniscience from your psychotic self-imposed god-complex fails you miserably again. Christianity is growing and in some parts of the world exponentially.

            As for being fearful, that’s outright laughable. LOL

            Thank you for once again glorifying God and being of use for His purposes.

          • Boris

            “Only the totally deluded and completely blind bigots don’t accept that Jesus Christ is a historical fact.”
            I’ve never seen any evidence convincing or even shoddy that Jesus Christ ever existed. And neither have you. Jesus Christ is an article of faith, not a figure in history.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Your self-deluded faux omniscience from the psychotic self-imposed god-complex? has, once again, failed you miserably. Jesus Christ IS a figure in History. So ya just keep right on showing your ignorance, total bias & bigotry, and that you love to swim in Denial. NO amount of evidence will ever persuade those who choose to remain oblivious.

            “knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires.” (2Pe 3:3)

            The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds; there is none who does good. (Psa 14:1)

            Like a dog that returns to its vomit is a fool who repeats his folly. (Prov. 26:11)

            Do you see a man wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him. (Prov. 26:12)

            The wise will inherit honor, but fools get disgrace. (Pro 3:35)
            The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble. (Pro 16:4)

          • Boris

            “Jesus Christ IS a figure in History.”
            THAT is the easiest lie ever told to debunk.How come there’s no evidence at all for this? Not even the tiniest shred of evidence? Some historians mention the existence of Christians but not one mentioned Jesus Christ by name, Not one, not ever, not anywhere. He’s only in the Bible which is of course 100 percent fiction. And none of your bluster and nonsense will ever change that.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Well Buckaroo Bob, if it’s so easy let’s see you do it. All you just did was show your complete ignorance again, total laziness to even attempt any research and study, and more significantly a complete close-mindedness to historical fact. That is the epitome of a “Bigot”.

            “Not one, not ever, not anywhere.”

            Complete ignorance as stated above or total lie. Take your pick.

          • Boris

            Losing Our Religion is a feature length documentary about preachers who are not believers, and what atheists do when they miss church. Allowed access to the 600 members of The Clergy Project – a safe haven for preachers from all faiths who no longer believe – the documentary follows ex-members and clergy who are still undercover.

            They are not just losing their religion, for many they are losing their friends, community and even family. As well as their job.

            As events unfold that change lives forever, their stories also connect with secular communities that are growing in surprising places. New groups are experimenting in ways to have church without god, and asking the same question as unbelieving clergy – “what’s next?”

            Losing Our Religion is a documentary about community, acceptance, and a view inside the complicated lives of clergy who are stranded in the rising tide of non-believers.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            A wise man once said it is better to keep your mouth shut and not show your ignorance than open it and remove all doubt. You should work on your wisdom a bit.

            “Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools speak because they have to say something” – Plato

            In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion,[3] often for their own amusement.

            From Psychology Today: “Internet Trolls Are Narcissists, Psychopaths, and Sadists. An Internet troll is someone who comes into a discussion and posts comments designed to upset or disrupt the conversation. Often, in fact, it seems like there is no real purpose behind their comments except to upset everyone else involved. Trolls will lie, exaggerate, and offend to get a response.”

            A fool does not delight in understanding, But only in revealing his own mind. (Prov. 18:2)

          • Boris

            You keep talking about this God. And Jesus. Yet when asked for evidence that they are real you simply ignore the request. So until you can prove your invisible man exists stand down. Now name one secular writer who was alive in the First Century who mentioned any of the supposed apostles. CHECKMATE. You got nothing and you know it.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Your choice to swim in the river of Denial does not negate Reality.

          • Boris

            A person is not a bigot for looking into the claims of the Christian superstition and finding them to be false. Outside of the Bible there are no mentions of Jesus Christ or any disciples made by any of the many historians who lived during and wrote about that period. My ancestors are Jewish and so I know the New Testament is a hoax. The NT writers ripped prophecies from the Old Testament out of their original and intended context and claimed they were actually about Jesus Christ even though no such person is ever mentioned in the OT. The most destructive teaching of Christianity is that some things are above question and to do so is sinful. You’ve bought into that brainwashing technique all the way. So there’s no way you could ever find out the truth.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Bigot: a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.

            Sound familiar? It should.

            “Outside of the Bible there are no mentions of Jesus Christ or any disciples made by any of the many historians who lived during and wrote about that period.”

            A lie. Again. Thanks for showing who you are again.

            “But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man.” (Matt. 15:18)

            “The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart.” (Luke 6:45)

            “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. (John 8:44)

            “My ancestors are Jewish and so I know the New Testament is a hoax. The NT writers ripped prophecies from the Old Testament out of their original and intended context and claimed they were actually about Jesus Christ even though no such person is ever mentioned in the OT.”

            When the spiritually dead try to read the Book of Life it’s like a blind man trying to read a road map before hopping in the car to drive. You have to get a heart transplant before you can have eyes to see.

            Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.” (John 8:47)

            “The unbeliever does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1st Cor. 2:14)

            “There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.” (2nd Peter 3:16)

            “The most destructive teaching of Christianity is that some things are above question and to do so is sinful. You’ve bought into that brainwashing technique all the way. So there’s no way you could ever find out the truth.”

            “knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires.” (2Pe 3:3)

            “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” (Rom. 3:13-14)

            A fool does not delight in understanding, But only in revealing his own mind. (Prov. 18:2)

            “Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.” (Prov. 23:9)

            Ya gotta love it when folks put on a public display of their pure evil wickedness.

            And they’re so stupid as to think it is actually pointed toward another when in fact it is a reflection of themselves.

            I have little doubt that these very things will be before their eyes and ring in their ears so as to NEVER be forgot for ALL Eternity.  

            Like a dog that returns to its vomit is a fool who repeats his folly. (Prov. 26:11)

          • Boris

            “Outside of the Bible there are no mentions of Jesus Christ or any disciples made by any of the many historians who lived during and wrote about that period.” You deny this fact. So prove me wrong. Let’s see your proof. Oh that’s right you make assertions and never provide any evidence for them. Because you don;t have any and you KNOW it. You believe what OTHER PEOPLE frightened you into believing. By definition you are a coward. And a liar of course.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            I wouldn’t waste one nanosecond of my time or an ounce of effort trying to prove a God-hating troll about anything. You wanna get outta your ignorance let Google be your friend.

            “Oh that’s right you make assertions and never provide any evidence for them. ”

            That’s what Jesus would call a Giant Sequoia Tree sticking outta your eye socket.

            “You believe what OTHER PEOPLE frightened you into believing.”

            There’s that faux omniscience from the self-deluded god-complex rearing it’s ugly head again.

            “For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.” (2Ti 1:7)

            Thanks for being used by God again. I love to shine the light of His Word on your darkness!

            “By definition you are a coward. And a liar of course.”

            There’s that Giant Sequoia Tree again. I’m rubber and your glue…

            But hey, I appreciate the blessing!

            Blessed are you when people insult you, mistreat you, and tell all kinds of evil lies about you because of me. (Matt. 5:11)

          • Boris

            How can a person hate something that does not exist?

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Well, just think about it some. Try that sometime. I know it’s a bit of a stretch but it might come to you. It’s really not that hard to figure out.

            A wise man once said it is better to keep your mouth shut and not show your ignorance than open it and remove all doubt. You should work on your wisdom a bit.

            “Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools speak because they have to say something” – Plato

          • Boris

            We atheists hate religion, not a God we do not believe exists.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            So says you.

            Another fine public display of the arrogance seen in those whose self-deluded faux omniscience from their psychotic self-imposed god-complex deludes them into thinking they can speak for ALL others.

            You also lie again. You hate other religions that are not of your own. You actually love your religion. Worse yet, you project your hatred of God onto His children. As evidence by your remarks on here.

            Moreover, the very fact that you expend so much time, space, and effort/energy to rant against God is living proof that you do believe in Him.

            18 For the wrath of God IS REVEALED from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which IS KNOWN about God IS EVIDENT within them; for God MADE IT EVIDENT to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been CLEARLY SEEN, being understood through what has been made, so that they are WITHOUT EXCUSE 21 For even though they KNEW God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools (Rom. 1:18-22)

          • Boris

            You’re wrong. I’ve never believed in any God, even as a child. There was no religion in my house so I never had a reason to believe. Still don’t. I know too much about science to believe in magic or wizards or gods or any of the rest of that stuff. You can have it.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            You’re wrong.

            18 For the wrath of God IS REVEALED from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which IS KNOWN about God IS EVIDENT within them; for God MADE IT EVIDENT to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been CLEARLY SEEN, being understood through what has been made, so that they are WITHOUT EXCUSE 21 For even though they KNEW God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools (Rom. 1:18-22)

            And I’ll take it!!!! I prefer the Truth over swimming in Denial.

          • Boris

            If you want the truth, pick up a science book. The study of Nature is the only path to truth. Theology is the study of nothing and only leads to insanity.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds; there is none who does good. (Psa 14:1)

            “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” (Rom. 3:13-14)

            But all who are wicked will keep on strutting, while everyone praises their shameless deeds. (Psa 12:8).

            “There is an inspired truth about the wicked person who has rebellion in the depths of his heart: He is not terrified of God.” (Psa. 36:1)

            “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; all those who practice it have a good understanding. His praise endures forever!” (Psa 111:10)

            “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.” (Pro 1:7)

            The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, But a wise man is he who listens to counsel. (Prov. 12:15)

            Even a fool who keeps silent is considered wise; when he closes his lips, he is deemed intelligent. (Pro 17:28)

            A fool does not delight in understanding, But only in revealing his own mind. (Prov. 18:2)

            “Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools speak because they have to say something” – Plato

          • Boris

            There is a part of reality I don’t have to deny. It’s called Evolution by Natural Selection. It does not get any more real than that. You must deny this important part of reality. I don’t. What’s it like to KNOW you’re wrong but be too afraid to admit it?

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble. (Pro 16:4)

            “You will certainly carry out God’s purpose, however you act, but it makes a difference to you whether you serve like Judas or like John.” – C.S. Lewis

            You must deny this important part of reality. I don’t. What’s it like to KNOW you’re wrong but be too afraid to admit it?

            Scientists are teaching today are NOT facts. They are interpretations of observations!! Don’t miss that!! Scientists are NOT teaching facts but rather interpretations of observations. And those interpretations come from a Starting Point based on their Worldview. It is absolutely imperative to understand this in order to use your critical thinking when evaluating what they are saying.

            Most folks are familiar with Richard Dawkins as the antagonistic outspoken atheist that he is. Here’s a quote of his that I’ve verified is true: “Evolution has been observed. It’s just that it hasn’t been observed while it’s happening.” (December 2004 Interview Bill Moyers “Now”. You can Google for the actual transcript)

            Ya can’t make this stuff up folks! THAT is what you are dealing with. Try arguing with logic and reason with THAT!! Only God’s Word and the power of the Holy Spirit can cut thru that idiocy, blindness, and hardness of heart.

            Famous Agnostic Scientist Robert Jastrow – “That there are what I or anyone would call supernatural forces at work is now, I think, a scientifically proven fact.”

            Famous Atheist Turns Theist – Antony Flew, an English philosopher and outspoken atheist who stunned and dismayed the unbelieving faithful when he announced in 2004 that God probably did exist, died April 8, 2010 in Reading, England. He was 87 and lived in Reading.
            His death was confirmed by Roy Abraham Varghese, with whom he wrote “There Is a God: How the World’s Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind,” published in 2007.

            “In fact, Antony Flew, who was an atheist, a very prominent atheist, but recently became a theist, or at least a deist as a result of this evidence said, “It is impossible for evolution to account for the fact that one single cell can carry more data than all the volumes of the Encyclopedia Britannica put together. It now seems to me that the findings of more than 50 years of DNA research have provided materials for a new and enormously powerful argument from design.”

            You must deny this important part of reality. I don’t. What’s it like to KNOW you’re wrong but be too afraid to admit it?

          • Boris

            You don’t know facts from fantasy. You believe in talking animals, 900 year old people, a rib woman, angels, demons and who knows what else all without ever seeing a shred of evidence for any of them. Evolution is the best established science there is. And it canceled your one-way ticket to the Christian magic happy land and all you can do is deny it and whine like the coward you are.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            “knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires.” (2Pe 3:3)

            “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” (Rom. 3:13-14)

            A fool does not delight in understanding, But only in revealing his own mind. (Prov. 18:2)

            “Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.” (Prov. 23:9)

            Like a dog that returns to its vomit is a fool who repeats his folly. (Prov. 26:11)

            Like I said, I’m easy to find. I don’t see you showing up on my doorstep so we can all tell who the coward is. Take a pretty small many to be a big, bad, blowhard while he hides behind his keyboard.

          • Boris

            The moderator of this thread is censoring what I post. This gives us all a glimpse of what would happen to freedom of speech if fundamentalist Bible believers ever got control of our government. It’s quite all right for Christians to hurl insults and threats of eternal violence and suffering at people. It’s okay for the Christians to call people names and ridicule them but when we free thinkers respond by mocking these silly insults and threats our words are censored. I haven’t broken any rules but I obviously broke the moderators faith, kicked the teeth right out of the moderator’s religious superstitions. It’s a classic case of being able to dish it out but never being strong enough or man enough to take it. This is because the Christian superstition only appeals to the base human emotion of cowardice. So when you Christians act like cowards it’s certainly no surprise. There aren’t any believers in fox holes. They haven’t got the guts for a fight.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Uh, no. What it gives us all a glimpse of is just how blind one can be to their own behavior as to always deflect their problems onto someone else.

            As for the rest of your lunacy and rant, I’ll just let them speak with the random nonsense they do and I’ll end with this… I’m not hard to find. Let’s see who has the guts.

          • Boris

            God is everything the narcissist ever wants to be: omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, admired, much discussed, and awe inspiring. God is the narcissist’s wet dream, his ultimate grandiose fantasy. But God comes handy in other ways as well. The narcissist alternately idealizes and devalues figures of authority. In the idealization phase, he strives to emulate them, he admires them, imitate them (often ludicrously), and defends them. They cannot go wrong, or be wrong. The narcissist regards them as bigger than life, infallible, perfect, whole, and brilliant. But as the narcissist’s unrealistic and inflated expectations are inevitably frustrated, he begins to devalue his former idols. Now they are “human” (to the narcissist, a derogatory term). They are small, fragile, error-prone, pusillanimous, mean, dumb, and mediocre. The narcissist goes through the same cycle in his relationship with God, the quintessential authority figure. – Dr. Sam Vaknin
            Is the Christian God a psychopath? “If someone told me to go do something like smash some babies’ heads against the rocks to make him happy, for example, I’d probably think he was a psychopath. But time and time again, the Bible depicts God as doing just that sort of nonsense.” Josh Barkley
            Sadism Embraced By 90% Of Pastors And Theologians
            by Anonymous
            Is sadism really being embraced and taught by the vast majority of Christian leaders? Not only is it being embraced and taught, acceptance of it is required by church leaders or you will be labeled as being part of a cult. What is this sadism endorsed by more than 90% of pastors and theologians? It is the Church’s cruel and unjust hell doctrine. According to these preachers, your sixteen year old son or daughter, who dies in a car accident without having accepted Jesus as Savior and Lord, will receive the same eternal punishment in hell as murderous tyrants like Hitler or Stalin. Of course if you’re a big donor to the church they won’;t tell you that.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Like a dog that returns to its vomit is a fool who repeats his folly. (Prov. 26:11)

            The wise of heart will receive commands, But a babbling fool will be ruined. (Prov. 10:8)

            Doing wickedness is like sport to a fool, And so is wisdom to a man of understanding. (Prov. 10:23)

            A fool does not delight in understanding, But only in revealing his own mind. (Prov. 18:2)

            But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. (Mat 15:18-19)

            The good person out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure produces evil, for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks. (Lk 6:45)

            “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” (Rom. 3:13-14)

            “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.” (Pro 1:7)

            “But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and sexually immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Rev. 21:8)

        • Boris

          Boy God is a real jerk. No wonder only idiots believe such a being actually exists.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Like a dog that returns to its vomit is a fool who repeats his folly. (Prov. 26:11)

            “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” (Rom. 3:13-14)

            A fool does not delight in understanding, But only in revealing his own mind. (Prov. 18:2)

            “Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.” (Prov. 23:9)

            Ya gotta love it when folks put on a public display of their pure evil wickedness.

            And they’re so stupid as to think it is actually pointed toward another when in fact it is a reflection of themselves.

            I have little doubt that these very things will be before their eyes and ring in their ears so as to NEVER be forgot for ALL Eternity.

          • Boris

            I see the moderator is as much of a sniveling coward as you are.

  • Josh Shapiro

    Hey Josie, I’m still waiting for that pic of your wife and kids!

  • Josh Shapiro

    Josie, still waiting for the picture of your wife and kids

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