California Christians, Prepare for Civil Disobedience

By Michael Brown Published on August 17, 2018

As California appears poised to pass an extreme bill that directly attacks your religious freedoms, it’s time for you to draw a line in the sand. If the bill passes, you must choose to obey God rather than man. It’s time for civil disobedience.

I’m speaking about AB 2943, which the Senate just approved with by a vote of 25-11. Next is the Assembly, then the desk of Gov. Jerry Brown, then the length and breadth of your great state.

AB 2943

In an August 16 email, Greg Burt, Director of Capitol Engagement, California Family Council, explained the significance of AB 2943, which I previously dubbed the “Must Stay Gay” bill. He wrote, “With Thursday’s [Senate] vote, elected leaders told churches and those with biblical beliefs about gender and sexual orientation that advocating for their views could get them sued.”

He continued, “This bill attacks the freedom of Christians … to find the services and resources from counselors, schools, and faith-based organizations that help them live out their biblical convictions regarding sexual behavior and gender identity. Shouldn’t these people have the freedom to find true joy by embracing and living out their faith without government persecution?”

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We should not downplay the potential impact of this bill. As Burt noted without hyperbole, “The implications of AB 2943 are staggering. Legal experts confirm that by targeting financial transactions, AB 2943 threatens religious non-profits, churches, and pastors who provide paid resources to help people practice their faith.”

My brothers and sisters in California, should this bill become law, your choice is simple: Say yes to the will of God and no to the will of man (Acts 5:29).

The bad news is that AB 2943 is on its way to becoming law. How in the world did we get to this place in America?

The Life-Changing Power of the Gospel

The good news (albeit a little late) is that many church leaders who previously sat on the sidelines have gotten directly involved. They have spoken out publicly against the bill. They have urged their congregants to contact their elected officials. And they have stood together with many ex-gays who have testified to the life-changing power of gospel-based counsel.

Yet the California legislators continue their march of oppression, all in the name of saving people from the alleged harm of so-called conversion therapy. And they have done so despite hearing firsthand testimonies of transformed lives, despite peer-reviewed, scientific evidence that change is possible, and despite the fact that such “therapy” is completely voluntary and non-compelled.

Still, these California lawmakers proclaim, “No! You must stay gay (or trans)! We will not allow you to explore the possibility of change.”

This is nothing less than governmental tyranny, nothing less than an abuse of elected power, nothing less than an unholy mandate against the holy claims of God.

Will you sit back and take it? Or will you rise up as one, with all respect for your government, and say, “If people want help, we will supply it. We will practice our faith. We will not deny the life-changing power of the gospel to anyone.”

Testimonies of Change

Stop for a moment and look at these smiling faces. Meet Jeff and David and April and others. Read their testimonies and hear their stories.

Some struggled with unwanted same-sex attractions for years. Some were out and proud homosexuals. Some identified as transgender. Others had their own unique story of sexual brokenness or addiction.

Yet every single one of them testifies to radical change through the gospel and godly counsel. And under AB 2943, every one of them would be denied such godly help. Are you going to take this sitting down?

Making Holy History

If you get sued for doing what’s right, so be it. If you get arrested, so be it. Great is your reward in heaven! Our brothers and sisters around the world are being exiled or stoned or burned alive or imprisoned or kidnapped for their faith. Surely we can take a little opposition for our faith here in the States.

But I don’t believe it will end there. I believe that, if AB 2943 passes, we will see it overturned, either through legal challenges that make it to the Supreme Court or through the voice of the people saying, “Enough is enough.”

So, let’s make holy history together. And let’s make a solemn determination: No earthly power will stop me from loving my neighbor as myself.

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  • Hannah

    I didn’t realize that California was turning into Chinafornia…

  • Patmos

    Right when California is literally burning too. Hmm…

    I know some fools will write that off. Well, keep pushing it, see what happens.

    • Jim

      The only fool here is the one who thinks the fires in CA are related to religious nonsense

      • KC

        I don’t believe the fires in California are from God because of what is being done there.
        Sinners will be consumed by fire as it says in Revelation. Before you say nonsense – If I am wrong you have nothing to fear – if I am right you still have time to know Jesus as your personal savior.

        • Chip Crawford

          The radical environmentalists who will not allow forest fuels to be removed have much to answer for in these fires. That’s proven. They shut down the logging industry back in the spotted owl environment days from Oregon to Northern California even for that proven necessary function . Then the owl’s habitat burned away due to those brush fuels being prohibited from clearing. Meanwhile, whole communities of people (also expendable to their demands) were wiped out due to that ruling.

          • Jim

            Nonsense. The fires are a result of accidents and arson, not because environmentalists oppose the cutting of all our forests.

          • Chip Crawford

            Radical environmentalists pressing and disallowing the normal clearing of brush that becomes fuel. The conservationists are well advised in forestry, but the extremists have been allowed to take over.

          • Jim

            You just haven’t a clue do you?

          • Chip Crawford

            The “clues” are elementary, Watson … Droll contempt is neither a point nor a counterpoint.

  • LaurieB

    Clearly this continues a trend we hope will not explode any more than it has already. Lacking spiritual and common sense, the culture has begun to learn through our politicians, educators and media, that gender is fluid.

    Hopefully this legislation, whether it is ultimately passed or not, will encourage followers of Christ to do what they should have been doing all along: offer spiritual instruction and counseling for FREE! Let’s stop the trend of “money-changers in the temple,” step up and be followers of Christ in our daily lives. Following Jesus and sharing him with others is not a vocation or profession, it is life.

  • Nick Stuart

    AB 2943 threatens religious non-profits, churches, and pastors who provide paid resources to help people practice their faith.”… The good news (albeit a little late) is that many church leaders who previously sat on the sidelines have gotten directly involved. ”

    Now that their MONEY will be affected.

    “If you get sued for doing what’s right, so be it.”

    That could put quite a crimp in the building program and upgrading the sound system and coffee bar.

    “If you get arrested, so be it.”

    Gonna be a drag taking that sabbatical in the slammer.

    Sorry to be such a cynic. I hope I am proven wrong.

    • In thousands of churches, Nick, you’ve already been proven wrong.

      • Nick Stuart

        I pray you are correct. Sadly my observation and experience does not bring me to your level of optimism. Especially considering:

        *Thousands of California churches have let AB 2943 get this far
        *Thousands of churches stood by in Indiana allowing the most anodyne piece of Religious Freedom legislation to be overturned
        *Thousands of churches in Colorado responded to Jack Phillips with a resounding “meh.”
        *Thousands of churches stood by in North Caroline where legislation to require people to use the locker and lavatory facilities that matched their sex was overturned
        *Tens of thousands of churches have been more or less silent in the decades since abortion at any time for any reason became legal.

        My experience with scores of good, theologically conservative pastors in my good, theologically conservative denomination has been that when it comes to practice, not theory, the guiding principle seems to be “Go along to get along and don’t do anything that might impair our 501c3 status, or my pastoral tax breaks.”

        It will be interesting to see what happens.

  • Bryan

    If I understand the bill correctly, it affects those who hand out materials even if money doesn’t change hands between the counselor and the counseled. It could potentially make it illegal to buy Bibles and other books deemed to be condoning or approving “conversion therapy”. They’ve tried to make it seem like they’re only concerned with forced conversion therapy but that’s not how it’s intended to be enforced.
    There’s a place for cynicism and skepticism but there’s a point where it becomes obnoxious or self-righteous. The people who are professionally offering their advice generally have degrees and are providing a service. Many have families to support. Maybe their church doesn’t have the ability to support their ministry full-time so they offer counselling on the side as extra income.
    And what of the non-Christian who goes to a Christian counselling service? They aren’t providing any monetary compensation to a church most likely. We complain about people getting a free lunch with the welfare program abuses and then complain about professional seeking compensation for services rendered.
    Could someone offer the service for free? Sure and it would probably be noble of them. But even that isn’t going to get them off the hook from this law for long.

    • Andrew Mason

      It’s unlikely that Bibles would be targeted to begin with as that would be too controversial to win popular support.

      • Bryan

        The key phrase in your comment is “to begin with”.

  • tz1

    Christians couldn’t be outraged over the last generation over the slaughter of nearly a million innocent babies every year. What makes you think they will draw a line in the sand here when they have never done so even with the worst of Molech?

    • Nick Stuart

      Not hard to understand why they won’t:

      Because many Evangelicals want abortion to remain legal in case daughter gets in trouble, or mom (or more likely dad) just can’t bear the thought of having another baby.

      Because pastor doesn’t want to rock the boat by offending all those congregants who’ve had/procured abortions, or might want to someday. Or risk his pastoral tax breaks or the church’s 501c3 status.

      Because it will impinge on their personal peace and material prosperity.

      • Kathy

        You may want to refrain from
        general assumptions like that. Not true concerning myself or my pastors.

        • nickstuart

          I’m glad that is the case at your church. May your tribe increase.

          That said, I’m not making an assumption, it’s my observation.

          If, overall, the church was really serious about doing something about abortion, it would be illegal or at least much more tightly proscribed than it is.

    • Stephen D

      Our church (Christian Reformed) has always been against abortion, is outraged about it and does oppose it. Our pastors preach against abortion.

      • tz1

        Much praise to you and the traditional (small t) Catholics, and Evangelicals like Mark Crutcher at prolife america.

        The problem is that, like the abolitionists, the proportion is small.

    • Andrew Mason

      The difference is that opposition to abortion doesn’t come with legal penalties. This does.

      • tz1

        Opposition DOES come with legal penalties, first the FACE (freedom of access to clinics entrances Act), and the usually lefty police brutality if you try to protest. People go to jail for contempt if not trespassing or some other trumped up charge.

        • Andrew Mason

          That’s opposition on the doorstep. A pro-life clinic isn’t penalised, however a ‘pro-Genesis clinic’ that teaches men to be men, women to be women, and marriage to be what God intended, will be in violation of the law.

  • Anne Fernandes

    Persecution: 2 Corinthians 4:8-12 We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; 9 persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed. 10 We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body. 11 For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that his life may also be revealed in our mortal body. 12 So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.; 2 Timothy 3:12 In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.” As my husband says, “It’s not if we will be persecuted, it’s when.” The Lord agrees!

  • the American

    The left has lost it’s mind, blocking therapy for people that might be on the fence about being gay.
    this shows exactly how evil they have become.
    SICK.

  • Stephen D

    The ‘scientific’ basis of this type of legislation is that a person who is homosexual is born homosexual and therefore cannot change. This is not just bad science. It is demonstrably false. Homosexuality is an unhealthy addiction. Like all addictions it is curable in some circumstances. This fact alone proves it is not congenital.
    It is fascinating in a ghastly way to see the promotion of fake science by legislatures throughout the West. Having glorified science to the point of worship, they now do everything in its name. It is remarkable how ‘science’ can be used to justify pretty much any irrational belief. And because ‘science’, unlike religion, knows no moral boundaries, anything goes.

    • Jim

      Funny that every major medical organization disagrees with you. Homosexuality isn’t an addiction. smh

      • Andrew Mason

        It’s a politicized subject and sadly pretty much every major medical organisation has caved to LGBT pressure. Research that contradicts approved ideology is ignored, those making such claims vilified, and claims without scientific basis but which promote the approved narrative embraced as fact.

        • Jim

          You actually believe that? smh

      • Deplorable Rican ☨ʳᵉᵈᵉᵉᵐᵉᵈ

        What passes as “science” these is social engineering. further there has been no science that proves conclusively that people are born homosexual! If that were true identical twins would all be homosexual.

        • Jim

          It’s quite obvious that you haven’t a clue.

          • Deplorable Rican ☨ʳᵉᵈᵉᵉᵐᵉᵈ

            Unlike yourself I have a degree in psychology and been to grad school. You on the other hand….

          • Jim

            have been to grad school also. Thank you very little…

        • Trilemma

          Identical twins are never truly identical.

      • Dena

        Actually no. See the peer reviewed journal The New Atlantis “Sexuality and Gender” Findings from the Biological, Psychological, and Social Sciences. In this article they found no scientific evidence backing people are born gay or trans. It’s a choice. They found transitioning kids into the opposite sex to be harmful. Most kids change their minds once they develop into an adult.

        • Jim

          Actually that’s not peer reviewed science. Citation please

          • Dena

            Google “Sexuality and Gender Findings from the Biological, Psychological, and Social Sciences”. That should bring you to the article in the peer reviewed journal The New Atlantis. Read the article.

          • Jim

            Paul McHugh has been discredited. Good grief.

          • Bob Johnson

            Written for the general public in The New Atlantis, a journal that prides itself in being not peer reviewed. Indeed a main focus of that paper is to present and knock down the very straw man presented here, “is gender identity fixed at birth.” Their article has also been panned for the glaring omission of recent work in the field. So as a popular article we will see how well it stands the test of time.

    • Dena

      There is no science that proves people are born gay or trans. It’s a political statement that is being pushed as truth when it can’t be proved factually by science. The world has gone mad! They rather push lies for the gay/trans agenda than seek truth.

  • The Evangelical

    This bill is addressing paid services and mental health professional activities; not selling Bibles, preaching the Word, or providing UNPAID advising from a church. This is not grounds for civil disobedience.

    When you obtain a medical license that is state regulated, you submit to their laws in order to practice. If the laws change, and you can’t do it in good conscience, then maybe you need to change your profession or change strategies until the laws change again. Your license is a privilege; not a right.

    When you do business in a state, you agree to follow their laws regarding commerce. If the laws change how business operates, then you need to change your business. Sure, you can work to change the laws as well, but you need to follow the laws in the meantime. That would mean providing other acceptable services and moving these regulated services to a volunteer space.

    I don’t see any Biblical precedent for civil disobedience in this case. The mission of the church is NOT affected by this legislation.

    • bowie1

      This bill however has to do with people’s LIVES and not the manufacturing of a product therefore it leaves those struggling with gender and sexuality issues in the lurch.

      • The Evangelical

        Only for PAID services. Counselors and church elders can still discuss these issues with no restrictions on a volunteer basis.

    • Bryan

      Churches generally collect tithes and offerings for which they provide receipts. So preaching against homosexual behavior could be regulated under this bill. If a private session with a pastor or elder is conducted and they provide a resource such as a book, that is an exchange of goods. I’m not saying that reasonable and responsible people can’t work through something like that but you don’t seem to be dealing with reasonable people anymore. Rep Waters who wants flash mobs to harass those she disagrees with. Mikey Weinstein who is offended because a Bible, among other books is placed on a table for MIA/POW’s.
      As for civil disobedience, the precedent is an unjust law that violates the first amendment of the Constitution.

      • The Evangelical

        Donations are gifts to the church; not a payment in exchange of services. The receipt is for their own records and for tax reporting–not acknowledging a record of services or good rendered.

        A pastor can provide any resources they wish in a counseling session–they just can’t charge for a sexual orientation change session with the purpose of changing the individual’s orientation and sell a book that is specifically meant to change their orientation–the Bible or tracts on godly behavior are intended for justification and sanctification and would not fall under this law. You could even continue these discussions on a volunteer basis anyway. The AG in California has clarified this in his statements.

        As Christians, we are first commanded to live at peace with everyone (Romans 12:18) and to obey the government (Romans 13). It is only in very specific circumstances that civil disobedience is justified (Acts 5:29), such as being commanded to not preach the Gospel (which isn’t happening here).

        • Juan Garcia

          So in the American War For Independence you would have been a Tory? The Romans 13 argument was central to all debate leading up to that. It started when people got killed for resisting tyranny. Nothing to do with preaching the gospel. Does your pacifism reach so far that murder by government is okay as long as they don’t forbid the preaching?

          • The Evangelical

            Yes. I agree with John MacArthur and people who take the Bible seriously. Present a positive argument for the war of independence from scripture alone and I’m happy to change my perspective.

            Read examples of civil disobedience in the Bible. Being mad about taxes and your livelihood isn’t one of them.

          • Juan Garcia

            Well the argument that the founders came up with is that there was no government to rebel against. The King was not governing. They supported this position from Romans 13. At the same time the Southern states used Romans 13 as justification for slavery because it was their law. It’s a slippery slope when you use one passage of scripture to take such a hard stance. I agree that it’s difficult to find scriptural references that would allow civil disobedience. Moses is one example but that’s OT. I think that any scriptural passage has to be interpreted in light of all scripture. For example God commands us not to deliberately sin, what if the government commanded you to engage in homosexual sin? What if the government commanded you to have an abortion? What would McArthur say we are to do in those situations?

          • The Evangelical

            Yeah, I find the “tyrannical government is no government at all” to be vacuous and without meaning. You can use it to justify any action you disagree with. If the government is making you do something that is explicitly against the Word of God, then you obey God rather than man.

            You pay taxes even if it’s unfair, you obey licensing laws even if they are unfair, and you don’t rebel against a government because you rationalize that the government isn’t there.

            There are plenty of examples of biblical civil disobedience: the Egyptian midwives commanded to kill the sons of Hebrew women, Daniel praying despite decrees against it, shadrach, meshach, and abednego, Peter preaching the Gospel despite ordered not to, etc. These are examples of individuals ordered to sin or not follow God’s explicit commands. If you are ever explicitly commanded to sin, then civil disobedience is justified.

          • Juan Garcia

            Then we are in agreement brother

          • Juan Garcia

            Oh and by the way, on a theological note, the word “governing” in Romans 13 is translated from the Greek word “huperecho” which is usually translated as “higher power” “higher authority” or connotes higher moral authority in modern English translations. I think this is the only place in the NT that it was translated “governing”. The King James uses “higher powers”. But we must remember that historically the early Greek documents were canonized during a time when the church and the state were one as was true during the King James translation. But I must agree that the context appears to be referring to civil government. Just food for thought.

          • The Evangelical

            Time of canonization is irrelevant. What did Paul mean when he wrote Romans? He was clearly talking about the Roman civil government. Also, I would say sacralism started much later in church history anyway.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Douglas Wilson wrote a real good article on this very thing 3-4mos ago. You might try to go find it. It settled the issue for me in my mind.

        • Kevin Quillen

          under this bill, a Christian family counselor(paid profession) would not be allowed to advocate for the Biblical stance on queerness. Would not be allowed to tell people can change, that one becomes a new creation in Christ. Ok with that?

          • The Evangelical

            It’s not about being “ok with that”. It’s about whether it’s ok to engage in civil disobedience from a Christian perspective.

        • Kevin Quillen

          you are incorrect here. Christian pregnancy centers in California have been mandated to advertise abortion as an alternative to adoption. Civil disobedience ok here?

    • disqus_TzEkxrJeq5

      They have just passed a law that says teaching the Bible is fraud. But it’s okay, as long as “no money exchanges hands”(?) Gee, I guess I should be thankful for for being set straight, giving me a dose of humility by maligning my faith, while at the same time “protecting” my right to practice/express it?

      • The Evangelical

        A dose of humility is always a good thing…and so is actually reading what the bill says before criticizing it as “teaching the Bible is fraud”. That is not true and is a misrepresentation of what’s in the law.

        • Kevin Quillen

          actually the bill implies that changing or attempting to change sexuality is improper because the State believes queerness is natural, normal, and fine. Therefore it says the Bible is a fraud.

        • disqus_TzEkxrJeq5

          The bill is a direct attack on my faith and the Word of God . . . please stop equivocating.

          The Bible clearly indicates that homosexuality, as well as all other sexual activity outside the joining (marriage) of a man and his wife, falls short of God’s perfect standard, interferes with our relationship with Him and as such is considered sin.

          The Bible also encourages us to overcome sin through the transformational / regenerative process of spiritual rebirth / reconnection to God through power of the Faith of Jesus, that He is who He says He is.

          For more than two thousand years this truth had been manifested in countless numbers of lives, as it continues to be today, and will be in the future. And from the beginning, the opposition has been attempting to destroy this truth, beginning with the crucifixion.

          But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God. [Acts 5:39]

        • disqus_TzEkxrJeq5

          The bill is a direct attack on my faith and the Word of God . . . please stop equivocating.

          The Bible clearly indicates that homosexuality, as well as all other sexual activity outside the joining (marriage) of a man and his wife, falls short of God’s perfect standard, interferes with our relationship with Him and as such is considered sin.

          The Bible also encourages us to overcome sin through being born again, the transformational / regenerative process of spiritual rebirth / reconnection with God through the power of the faith of Jesus, that He is who He says He is.

          For more than two thousand years this truth had been manifested in countless numbers of lives, as it continues to be today, and will be in the future. And from the beginning, the opposition has been attempting to destroy this truth, beginning with the crucifixion.

          But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God. [Acts 5:39]

          • The Evangelical

            The bill isn’t addressing the Bible or any actions the church can take in a plethora of ways. Just because licensed medical professionals and counselors have been given a restriction, does not mean that this is a “direct attack on my faith and the Word of God”.

            No function of the church has been prevented because of this bill. You can still preach the whole counsel of God and continue these discussions in a non-commercial setting.

            This isn’t equivocating. This is learning to understand the nuances of what the law actually says and what the Word of God demands.

          • disqus_TzEkxrJeq5

            The law attacks any Christian counselor whose theoretical framework, training and pass experience may all validate cognitive therapy as a form of treatment in helping clients deal with unwanted sexual attraction, labeling him/her a fraud and removing his license to practice in the state of California. I would say that is a direct attack on ones faith.

            You can split hairs any way you want to in order to dissimilate you message for subterfuge, but you agenda is crystal clear.

          • The Evangelical

            If you want to practice medicine, then you agree to follow licensing laws. It’s a privileged; not a right. Don’t like it? Change the laws or move to a country that doesn’t regulate their medical profession.

            This isn’t “my bill” or a “message for subterfuge”. This my response to fellow Christians that calls for civil disobedience on a Biblical basis are serious and situations should be carefully examined.

            Your accusations demonstrate an unwillingness to review your position in light of God’s word, your political priorities over the Gospel, and willful personal attacks against a fellow believer. You need to repent.

          • disqus_TzEkxrJeq5

            Voicing opposition to a bill before it become a law is not a form of civil disobedience, it’s called participating in our democratic process. You have real problems for someone who calls themselves “The Evangelical” . . .

            Galatians 1:6-12
            I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another, but there be some that trouble you , and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accuse. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

            For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught
            it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

            Acts 4:19
            But Peter and John replied, “Do you think God wants us to obey you rather than him?

          • The Evangelical

            I’m all for voicing opposition to the bill. I’m not in favor of “civil disobedience”, which implies willful breaking of laws. My point is that there are very few instances where this can be done biblically, and this isn’t one of them.

    • Kevin Quillen

      so basically you are ok with Christians being banned from the field of Psychiatry and Psychology and family counseling. Sexual issues are a part of all the professions mentioned. If allowed to stand, where do suppose the next issue will appear?

    • Getoutandstayout

      Many churches have PAID counselors as well, who are professional therapists. This bill would put them at risk of losing their livelihood. What about para-church ministries which reach out to homosexuals? They, too, have professional pyschologists/psychiatrists who try to help those battling homosexual desires. How naive are you? Don’t you think that this is just the introductory foot in the door by liberal California legislators, telling churches and Christian ministries what they can and can’t teach? How long before they start telling pastors the same thing? Next will be a bill targeting UNPAID counselors, then a bill condemning any preaching that homosexual behavior is sin, then a bill jailing anyone opposing gay rights, etc, etc. It’s a slippery slope, my friend, and one gay activists used to get gay marriage legalized. Recognize this insidious bill for what it is.

      • The Evangelical

        I’m saying that this just doesn’t justify civil disobedience. You don’t like the laws? Get involved and try to change it. But don’t break the laws and insist you are being a good Christian. Because, in this case, you are not.

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          “When you obtain a medical license that is state regulated, you submit to their laws in order to practice. If the laws change, and you can’t do it in good conscience, then maybe you need to change your profession or change strategies until the laws change again. Your license is a privilege; not a right.”

          Wrong. One does NOT give up their Constitutional Rights because they reside in a State that passes Unconstitutional Laws. No difference in civil disobedience here than with Jack Phillips in CO. Dr. Brown is correct. Civil disobedience is needed in order for the law to be challenged in the higher courts.

          According to your theology on “submit to the authorities” those Christians who lived in States with Jim Crow laws should’ve just submitted to those laws.

          So I believe you’re absolutely wrong when you say, “But don’t break the laws and insist you are being a good Christian. Because, in this case, you are not.”

          And you better hope and pray that I’m the one wrong because if it is you who are wrong then you just made yourself an abomination. Prov. 6:16-19.

          • The Evangelical

            The constitution allows states to regulate certain practices in their state, such as law and medicine. This is constitutional.

            There is a strong case for Biblical civil disobedience in the case of Jim Crow laws.

            Exactly “in this case”. You and other people on this website struggle with nuance and love conflating every law you don’t like as a Gospel issue.

            Please explain what you mean in quoting Proverbs 6:16-19. I’m not supporting the law. I’m simply saying that in this particular case, we cannot say Christian civil disobedience is justified. At least, I haven’t seen a good argument otherwise.

            I’ve only seen personal attacks and supposed Christians being mad that the Word of God calls for submission to government with only limited exceptions for civil disobedience.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            As I previously said, State laws can NOT override Federal or the Constitution. Churches, Pastors, Counselors, all have Freedom of Speech & Religion.

            The Law will be shutdown as soon as it is disobeyed & tested. Just as SCOTUS shutdown the CA law forcing Pregnancy Care Centers to refer women to abortion clinics.

            I have no idea what you mean by “exactly, in this case”. That said, one could actually make an argument that there is a stronger Biblical case for disobeying this law than there was for Jim Crow laws. One could argue that 1st Peter 2 would apply there. Forcing someone to sit at the back of the bus or eat in a segregated area does not effect one’s salvation. However, refusing to tell someone that they can be delivered from there sin and not have to practice it could.

            That said, I was not arguing for civil disobedience based on Scripture and I didn’t make this a “gospel” issue. I argue for civil disobedience in both cases based on the Constitution.

            As for your “you and other people” I suggest you see Prov. 6:16-19 again and drop the faux-omniscience. Those verses are pretty clear and self-explanatory. If one breaks this law because they are speaking the Truth of God’s Word and being salt & light then I’m confident it won’t tarnish their “being a good Christian” in doing so. If Jesus sees it the same way then you are a false accuser & bearing false witness. Which would make you an abomination to God.

          • The Evangelical

            The bill is regulating types of income producing services. It is not regulating your religion or speech. Again, you can continue doing all of the things described in the bill in a volunteer space.

            “I was not arguing for civil disobedience based on Scripture and I didn’t make this a “gospel” issue. I argue for civil disobedience in both cases based on the Constitution.”

            This says it all. We are not discussing the same topic. I’m ONLY talking about justification of civil disobedience from a Christian perspective. That was the point of the article and my reason for commenting. Don’t be hypocritical and quote scripture to defend your political position when you are citing the Constitution as your highest authority. You clearly are more interested in the Constitution’s justifications than what the Bible has to say on this matter. We are Christians first, and Americans second. Even if the Constitution allows something, we must first consider it through the lens of scripture.

            Regarding Proverbs 6:16-19, thank you for proving that you are incapable of reconciling those verses in light of other verses calling for one to obey the government and allowing civil disobedience in only limited circumstances, and accusing a believer of being an abomination to God without evidence. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            “The bill is regulating types of income producing services. It is not regulating your religion or speech. Again, you can continue doing all of the things described in the bill in a volunteer space.”

            SCOTUS has already ruled against that.

            “This says it all. We are not discussing the same topic. I’m ONLY talking about justification of civil disobedience from a Christian perspective. That was the point of the article and my reason for commenting.”

            You’re misunderstanding me AND you’re setting up a false dichotomy. When I said what I did I was saying there is no direct specific command by God that the State is requiring one to disobey. However, that does NOT mean I am suggesting one ignore Scripture to obey the Constitution. For the Christian there is no distinguishing factor. Civil disobedience to this law if passed would fall under Romans 13. Did not Paul appeal to Caesar? The “higher power” of his Government?

            “Don’t be hypocritical and quote scripture to defend your political position when you are citing the Constitution as your highest authority.”

            Another false accusation and false witness. You’re batting 1000.

            “You clearly are more interested in the Constitution’s justifications than what the Bible has to say on this matter.”

            Another false accusation and false witness. Still batting 1000.

            “We are Christians first, and Americans second. Even if the Constitution allows something, we must first consider it through the lens of scripture.”

            No disagreement from me on that. So why aren’t you practicing what you preach? Now go and be an Ambassador of the Lord Jesus Christ. Be Salt. Be Light. And speak the Truth in Love. Should you happen to get paid for it while you do, don’t worry about it. Jesus never prohibited anyone from doing so.

  • disqus_TzEkxrJeq5

    They say they are doing this because gays are being driven to suicide because of adversity to their life style. The desperately sad thing about this is the question of how many they are driving to suicide because of their false believe that one is born with non-conforming sexual proclivities and that there is nothing one can do to curtail, modify or resist the impulse to act out on undesirable (perhaps shameful, even deviant) thoughts / fantasies that consume them. They are promoting lost hope.

  • Joy Elizabeth Teets

    We are not what Satan and the demons say we are. It’s not “LGBT” people. These are people who are lost who need the Lord Jesus Christ. We are in a spiritual battle.

  • Pat

    AB2943 is being passed on the assumption that “professional speech” (counseling) is not protected by the First Amendment. That is the only important issue and will sink the legislation. On June 26, 2018, the US Supreme court in NIFLA vs Becerra declared that “professional speech is not exempt from First Amendment protections.” AB2943 is clearly unconstitutional, and any legislator who votes for it is violating his oath of office to support the Constitution. This is a no-brainer, but CA legislators have never been accused of having brains.

  • Danny Ehinger

    Our government is a mirror, it reflects our hearts. Like it or not we, you and me fellow Christian, are the problem. I pray we not only see that it is time to stand but that we see that it is way past time for us to have taken a stand. Do we really believe the Gospel? Are we living it? This is our testing, I pray we satnd. I plan to.

    • Royce E. Van Blaricome

      It might reflect your heart but it don’t reflect mine. If you truly believe what you said they you are NO “fellow Christian”. True Christians have had their Jer. 17:9 heart removed and replaced with an Eze. 36:26 heart. Now, had you said “our Flesh”, I’d have agreed 100% with you. However, NO, Christians are NOT the problem. Could Christians do more? Sure. But the “problem” lies solely where it belongs and that is with the World, Satan, and his children.

      • Danny Ehinger

        The cause of a problem is always the solution. If you think the solution to the words problems are Satan and his children then you must think they are the solution. Do you?

        I think the solution is following Jesus in Spirit and Truth so it follows that we, Christians, must not be.

        Scripture is a mirror, if you see anything but yourself in it you may be missing the point.

        I am interested in your thoughts if you want to share them.

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          My first thought is that is the biggest bunch of nonsense I’ve read since the gal to tried to tell me about how God the Father actually learned to love by Jesus teaching Him.

          Let’s put our Critical Thinking caps on, shall we? What is Man’s problem? Answer: Sin. According to your belief system Sin is therefore the solution to Man’s problem. Uh, don’t think so! Now to your second supposition:

          “Scripture is a mirror, if you see anything but yourself in it you may be missing the point.”

          No Sir. When I look at Scripture I see God. His very “breathed-out” inerrant, infallible, timeless Word.

          Pretty sure I’m not the one missing the point.

          • Danny Ehinger

            I like critical thinking so let me share my prospective. Sin is a very abstract concept that is very hard to nail down. Christians have focused on sin for thousands of years only to sin in their effort to combat it. Sin isn’t a real thing, you cannot blame it for anything. You can ask what causes sin?

            The answer is a rebellious heart, a heart of stone if you will. So the solution is a new heart. Do you see how scripture tells us that those who God loves will receive a new heart? God deals with the real problem and we should too.

            I agree with you the Scripture is of God and it has many facets. I believe that God have us scripture to show us our real hearts so we would know we need a new heart and that so we would ask Him for one. When I read about Cain or Israel or David and Bathsheba I know that my stony heart is the same as theirs. Like David I need to pray for a new heart. I believe God has given me a new heart and that a new heart is available to all who ask. What do you think about these ideas?

            I appreciate your thoughts.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            1) That’s not “Critical Thinking”

            “Christians have focused on sin for thousands of years only to sin in their effort to combat it. Sin isn’t a real thing”

            2) “Perspective” not “Prospective”

            3) Sin is VERY real. And it leads to death.

            “For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Rom 6:23)

            “The answer is a rebellious heart, a heart of stone if you will.”

            A Jeremiah 17:9 heart if you will.

            “So the solution is a new heart.”

            Wrong. Read Romans lately?

            “Do you see how scripture tells us that those who God loves will receive a new heart?”

            Yes. Eze. 36:26

            “God deals with the real problem and we should too.”

            Correct. So why aren’t you?

            “I agree with you the Scripture is of God and it has many facets. I believe that God have us scripture to show us our real hearts so we would know we need a new heart and that so we would ask Him for one.”

            Your belief is wrong. Regardless of whether your “us” is referring to Christians or Unbelievers. If Christians then they already have a new heart. If Unbelievers, when the spiritually dead try to read the Book of Life it’s like a blind man trying to read a road map before hopping in the car to drive. You have to get a heart transplant before you can have eyes to see.

            Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.” (John 8:47)

            “The unbeliever does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1st Cor. 2:14)

            “There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.” (2nd Peter 3:16)

            “When I read about Cain or Israel or David and Bathsheba I know that my stony heart is the same as theirs. Like David I need to pray for a new heart.”

            So you’re an Unbeliever?

            “I believe God has given me a new heart and that a new heart is available to all who ask.”

            So you’re a Believer but just Biblically ignorant and don’t know that it’s not available to anyone who asks?

            “What do you think about these ideas?”

            I think you’re very confused. Biblically ignorant. And have NO concept of Biblical Soteriology at all. So I think the place to start is at the beginning. Do you or do you not profess to be a Christian?

            If so, why? What makes one a Christian? What must occur in order for one to be Born Again?

          • Danny Ehinger

            Ok so you want to judge my salvation. Sure. Here are my answers.

            1)Yes I am a follower of Jesus Christ.

            2) God gave me belief so I believe. He changed my heart from that of a rebel to that of a follower and He continues to change my heart and mold me as He does for those He loves.

            3) A Christian is someone who has received God’s free gift.

            4) God must grant them belief and they must continue in it.

            A question for you. What day of creation did God make sin?

            Thank you for your concern.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Well, that depends on how you define “judge”. If you’re asking whether or not I want to determine whether you’re a Believer then yes. Just as Jesus instructed His followers to do.

            1) Ok. So you’ve made a profession. Now let’s look at whether the profession matches the definition

            2) God gave you believe so you believe? Where is that in Scripture?! You say he changed your heart but that contradicts your previous statements. Then you say He “continues to change” your heart. That says you have not received the new heart God promises to those who have been regenerated. Thus you leave the first question still a mystery.

            3) You say “received”. So God didn’t give that to you too?

            4) Again, where do you find that in Scripture? That belief of yours contradicts Rom. 10:9. And if one is given the belief by God then why “must” they “continue in it”? Logic dictates that if God gives you the belief then you can’t do anything but continue in it.

            Answer: God didn’t make sin.

            Now, another couple of questions for you. How long have you professed to be a Christian? When was it that God gave you this belief? And secondly, are you part of a local church where you have submitted yourself to godly men who can properly disciple you as told to do by God? If so, what church would that be?

          • Danny Ehinger

            I think much of your reply is semantics. Can anything be had that hasn’t come from God? (Meant to be rhetorical, the scripture for this is Genesis1:1)

            2) Yes God changed my heart from a rebellious heart to a heart of a follower. That is a new heart. He also walks with me and teaches me and this continues to change my heart. Not that I keep getting a new heart but that old ideas that I had as idols continue to be revealed to me and removed from me. Many people call this sanctification.

            3) I would say 20 years. 20 years ago God changed me. I am a part of thee local Church. I do summit myself to all believers.

            You say Godly men that will disciple me. What does this mean? What is a “godly man” in your opinion? How will they disciple me? Will they teach me to be silent in the midst of this abortion holocaust? Will they teach me to be prideful and sit on Gods judgment seat and lord it over others? Will they teach me to stand by and do nothing as homosexuality and immorality tear the family apart? Will they teach me to think I am right and to simply circle the wagons of the local church and huddle inside the four walls of a mortgaged building as the world around them goes to hell? Please tell me what you mean.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            “I think much of your reply is semantics.”

            One could say that is “stinkin’ thinkin'”. Are you referring to Formal Semantics, Lexical Semantics, Conceptual Semantics or just attempting to distract & divert again? If you have a problem with something I said or a question about the same then just spit it out and say so.

            “Can anything be had that hasn’t come from God? (Meant to be rhetorical, the scripture for this is Genesis1:1)”

            The answer is YES. So your citation of Gen. 1:1 is in error. Another false use of Scripture.

            “2) Yes God changed my heart from a rebellious heart to a heart of a follower. That is a new heart. He also walks with me and teaches me and this continues to change my heart. Not that I keep getting a new heart but that old ideas that I had as idols continue to be revealed to me and removed from me. Many people call this sanctification.”

            You still don’t get it. Your theology, soteriology, and understanding of regeneration is severely lacking. And you still have not supported your supposition that you are a Christian because God gave you Belief and therefore you believe.

            “3) I would say 20 years. 20 years ago God changed me. I am a part of thee local Church. I do summit myself to all believers.”

            “thee”? Do you mean to say there is only one local church in your area?

            “You say Godly men that will disciple me. What does this mean?”

            20yrs as a Christian you don’t know what that means? My oh my is that a statement!

            “What is a “godly man” in your opinion?”

            My opinion is irrelevant and a Christian would know that. Scripture is clear on the subject. So they question is why you think you must ask. And your Distraction & Diversion is, once again, taken as an answer.

            “How will they disciple me? Will they teach me to be silent in the midst of this abortion holocaust? Will they teach me to be prideful and sit on Gods judgment seat and lord it over others? Will they teach me to stand by and do nothing as homosexuality and immorality tear the family apart? Will they teach me to think I am right and to simply circle the wagons of the local church and huddle inside the four walls of a mortgaged building as the world around them goes to hell? Please tell me what you mean.”

            Again, your Distraction & Diversion along with your stiff-necked stubborn rebellion while you stand as an Accuser of the Brethren is duly noted. As for telling you what I mean, see Matt. 7:6.

            And while you’re in that chapter you might read on down to Verses 21-23 because you’ve provided ample evidence that you’re standing in line waiting to hear Jesus speak.

          • Danny Ehinger

            You are just to smart for me. Being so smart you must not need to repent of anything. Sorry if my comment offended you. My comment was meant for me and “Christians” like me. Have a good day.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Nice exit. Get your cheap shot in by throwing in a little fiery dart and then run for the door.

            Now, just for the record, I have to repent almost daily and you did NOT offend me.

            But, AGAIN, your Distraction & Diversion is duly noted. It would’ve actually been far better had you just admitted you either can’t or won’t answer the questions rather than publicly sinning and running away.

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