Once Again, the Big Question: Can You Be Gay and Christian?

By Michael Brown Published on May 8, 2018

It’s the question I’m asked over and over again. It’s the question that’s dividing churches and separating family members. It’s the question that must be answered: Can you be gay and Christian?

Well, if you claim to be a Christian, that means that Jesus is your Lord and the Bible is your authority, so the real question is: What does Jesus have to say about this? And what does the Bible — God’s Word — have to say? That’s what we need to find out.

Of course, we understand that every Christian struggles in some area, whether it be pride or anger or lust or jealousy or greed. But we also recognize that these desires and attitudes are sinful. So we say No to them and Yes to the Lord.

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In the same way, some Christians struggle with same-sex attractions. They say No to those attractions and Yes to the Lord. That’s their area of temptation and battle.

But what about those who say, “God made me gay, and if I’m in a committed relationship, the Lord is pleased. After all God is love, and love wins. What the Bible opposes is abusive relationships, like homosexual pederasty and prostitution and promiscuity. That’s what the Scriptures condemn. But the Lord blesses committed same-sex relationships.”

Is this true?

There’s only one way to answer this question. With humility, we must come to God and His Word and say, “Father, whatever You say, we will obey. We only want Your will.”

So, what does God’s Word have to say? Can you practice homosexuality and follow Jesus at the same time? 

We’ve put together a 6-minute video that answers this head on, clarifying misunderstandings, dispelling myths, and offering hope.

Can you gay and Christian? You’ll find your answers here.


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  • Concerned Christian

    I would love for Dr. Brown to answer this question. I know you’ve heard this before but we you know how many Christian marriages end in divorce.

    Jesus is pretty clear, to me, on what it means to marry again:

    Matthew 19:
    8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

    Why doesn’t the church come down harder on this topic? Since adultery is included in the list of sins that will not enter the Kingdom, should this not be emphasized more?

    Also, where is the prohibition on multi marriages found in the Bible?

    If we want to define God’s Law by the one man one woman concept, is the church itself in violation? Was Moses and the other Patriarchs in violation since they have multiple-wives?

    curios what your thoughts are?

    • JP

      The standard for marriage has always been between one man and one woman. Those that had more than one wife or divorced were in violation of this standard.

      • Concerned Christian

        are you sure that is the standard?

        Exodus 21:10
        Deuteronomy 21:15

        • Ken Abbott

          The superseding standard is Genesis 2 because it is a creation ordinance. As noted in Matthew 19, Moses made some accommodations for hard hearts.

          • Concerned Christian

            You can say Jesus spoke to the “accommodations for hard hearts”. However, He never said anything about Polygamy and neither does the NT.

          • Ken Abbott

            Matthew 19:4-6. Jesus referred to the creation of Adam and Eve, two persons who became one flesh in marriage ordained by God. The language is all of single persons.

            Read 1 Corinthians 7, Paul’s lengthiest teaching on marriage. His language throughout applies to a “one man–one woman” situation. He doesn’t have to come out and say explicitly that polygamy is forbidden–monogamy underpins his entire argument.

          • Concerned Christian

            Paul also wrote 1 Timothy:

            1 Timothy 3:2
            A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach;

            The qualifications are explicitly set for a bishop to only have one wife. is it not implicitly saying that there is no such qualification for non-bishops?

          • Ken Abbott

            Or that which is true of “rank-and-file” Christians must be all the more true of their leaders. In other words, if upholding the standard of monogamy is the ideal for Christians, it behooves their leaders to exemplify this.

            I am unaware that polygamy was sufficiently practiced in the first-century Mediterranean world that Paul would need to make special mention of it; he had and took ample opportunity to speak on marriage and sexual morality otherwise. Polygamy was not characteristic of Roman society even though Roman men–especially in the aristocracy–were not known for their marital faithfulness, in contrast to Roman wives for whom adultery was a capital offense.

          • Concerned Christian

            According to Josephus, Herod the Great had 10 wives. Also, polygamy was still legal and being practiced during the time of Paul.

            I see your point but Paul may not have said anything because it wasn’t considered to be wrong.

          • Ken Abbott

            On the first example, I wouldn’t consider Herod the Great indicative of any normal standard of behavior.

            On the second matter, I guess more investigation as to standard practices in the first-century Mediterranean world is in order, but I certainly don’t recall polygamy being widely practiced or accepted. Also, arguments from silence are hard to maintain.

          • Concerned Christian

            the easier point i was trying to make was concerning adultery which you’ve already addressed.

            Basically, we’re harshly judging someone for behavior outside of the church while not condemning behavior in the church.

            Polygamy, for me, simply represents the danger of trying to have a hard and fast rule when attempting prove a point against behavior that is considered to be unacceptable.

          • Ken Abbott

            “Basically, we’re harshly judging someone for behavior outside of the church while not condemning behavior in the church.”

            And there we–Christians in the contemporary American church–have matters exactly backwards. Paul exhorted the Corinthians that reform begins in the house of God (1 Corinthians 5:12-13). Christians are held to a much higher standard, and it is about time we were serious about it, because God certainly is.

          • Bryan

            Ken I agree with you.
            However, I think CC is trying to use the seamless garment approach to homosexuality and adultery. Basically, if you’re going to be against homosexuality, you have to be against adultery, fornication, etc. And if you’re against those things, then you have to be against the President who has committed those sins and against the rest of the church who have committed those sins. Otherwise you’re a hypocrite and then homosexuality is really ok.
            That’s probably an over-simplified version. But it seems to be the line of reasoning behind some of the arguments.
            We do need to look at our actions within the church. We need to deal with sin as sin and with sinners with compassion. That applies as much to the adulterers as to the homosexuals. And it applies to the envious, the prideful, the gluttonous, etc.

          • Concerned Christian

            “Otherwise you’re a hypocrite and then homosexuality is really ok.”

            Why can’t both be sins?

            Why can’t it be that while both are sins, only one is emphasized and demonized?

            Why can’t it be that the one that is NOT demonized affects the church more than the one that is demonized?

            Why can’t it be that by focusing on external problems you’re allowing your internal problems to destroy you from within?

            Just a thought.

          • Andrew Mason

            Or perhaps it depends on the church in question as to which affects it. Homofascism is seeking legislative changes which impact everyone. By contrast many churches will have limited contact with adultery, fornication, etc and so will condemn it but rarely focus on it. It’s basically the same as racism. While racism is wrong, the fact it’s not an issue for many churches means minimal attention is paid to it.

          • Concerned Christian

            here’s the problem. if you commit adulterer there is no need to seek legislative changes that impact everyone. Why?

            Because an adulterer can lead a nation, a business, or a church. There are no rights that an adulterer is deprived of.

            trump is a serial adulterer who cheated with a porn star while his wife was pregnant. David Vitter cheated on his wife with a prostitute. their punishment? Both received strong support from evangelicals. Vitter won re-election and now his wife is a federal judge.

            Also, within the church, I will guarantee that the church has more contact with adulterers than it does members of the LGBT community. There in-lies the real difference in how each is treated.

          • Andrew Mason

            As I said, it depends on the church. Some churches support homosexuality in open defiance of Scripture. Do they also support adultery, polygamy, fornication, or other similarly prohibited acts? No idea, but it stands to reason they wouldn’t be emphatically opposed to such things.

            Trump is a political leader not a church member. The sort of judgement he incurs is different.

            And homosexuals can also lead countries, businesses, and, sadly, churches. Homosexuals already have equal rights, but that isn’t enough. Now the demand is for unequal rights.

          • Concerned Christian

            you know what’s funny is that homosexuals, women, blacks, and immigrants all have the same problem. Each is always accused of demanding rights that the majority takes for “granted” that everyone already has. Somehow those demands are categorized has demanding “more” rights.

          • AndRebecca

            We don’t have a state church in America. How are you managing to confuse what is done in a church with what the state does?

          • Concerned Christian

            The article, that we’re responding to, was written to argue that homosexuality is not compatible with Christianity.

            I asked Dr. Brown the following questions:

            “I know you’ve heard this before but we know how many Christian marriages end in divorce.

            Jesus is pretty clear, to me, on what it means to marry again:

            Matthew 19:
            8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

            Why doesn’t the church come down harder on this topic? Since adultery is included in the list of sins that will not enter the Kingdom, should this not be emphasized more?”

            My initial question had nothing to do with the state and everything to with the church.

          • AndRebecca

            Do you read your own comments? You just talked about rights, which have to do with the state, not the church. And you mentioned Herod, who was not a Christian, and mentioned other non-Christian cultural ideas. The church has the right to believe what they want to and have who they want in their church. That is freedom of religion and freedom of association. The reason that some churches don’t come down hard on divorce is because the culture has affected them. These churches generally have no problem with homosexual relationships either. Some people have been aggressively attacking Christian values since colonial days, and they’ve infiltrated the churches. And, after WWII we’ve had had the government go after the Christian culture. Pornography is legal and it wasn’t before, no fault divorce was an attack on Christianity according to the people behind the law, and prayer is being taken out of the schools. Christians are affected by the culture like everyone else.

          • Concerned Christian

            “Do you read your own comments?”

            Those other comments were in response to the comments of others.

            “Some people have been aggressively attacking Christian values since colonial days, and they’ve infiltrated the churches”

            the church is not some place you go to escape from the world. As Jesus stated it’s the sick that need a physician. The church is full of people who had problems before they came to church and they brought those problems into the church.

            Imagine if the church were a hospital. In the hospital you have patients who are sick but are living a healthy lifestyle. Then you have another group of patients who are sick because of bad decisions i.e. drugs, alcohol, obesity, etc.

            In both cases, the people came to the hospital to become whole. People go to the hospital for physical healing. They go to church for spiritual healing.

            When a patient leaves the hospital they should leave better than when they came in. They should have a testimony. That testimony should encourage others in need of physical healing that they can receive it at the hospital.

            Shouldn’t we expect the same of the church when it comes to spiritual healing? What you see as an attack on Christian values is an attack by someone in need of spiritual healing.

            The Christian divorce rate is greater than 50%. If a hospital failed at that rate would you see the hospital as being a place that you would want to attend?

          • AndRebecca

            If you go to a church as if going to a hospital, you would expect them to treat your illness, not help you become more sick. So, if a pastor is saying it is alright to get a divorce over nothing, you would do well to find another church. Many Christians would agree that divorce should be granted over abuse, addiction, or abandonment. Adultery could be considered any one of the three. The main reason anyone should go to church is to worship God, period., and to commune with other Christians. There are Christian counselors who can help with different problems in order to get you into that place.

          • Concerned Christian

            So basically if you’re not going to church to worship God and commune with other Christians you shouldn’t good.

            It’s funny how many young people see Church as irrelevant to their lives. They don’t see that the church has answers to the problems they face.

          • AndRebecca

            Many young people think a lot of things are irrelevant to their lives. They make poor decisions all the time. This society is sick and religious morals and values are the cure. And worshiping God and becoming a part of a Christian community is a great start in the right direction. Being born again is the cure for many ailments according to Gerald May, M.D., in his book “Simply Sane.” And, all the drug addicts I have heard speak on the subject thinks prison is the answer, because that’s where they find God.

          • Concerned Christian

            I agree. how do we get there?

            How do we get young people to join the Christian Community? How do we get people “Born Again”?

            What steps does the church need to take?

            Seems like we can describe the problem and the solution. However, what do we about getting from point A to point B?

          • AndRebecca

            It seems you’ve never set foot inside a church. You could start by attending one and find out what is going on there…go to more than one…And, you can watch many pastors, like Dr. Brown on Youtube, but nothing beats finding a church near you and becoming a member…for starters.

          • Concerned Christian

            so that assumption was easy to make wasn’t it?

            I disagree with your perspective, so it must be that I don’t attend church.

            But to the point, I didn’t ask what Dr. Brown thinks or what a local church thinks. I asked what you think?

            You’ve described a problem and a solution, how do we get there?

          • AndRebecca

            You’e talking out of both sides of your mouth. If you go to a church already, like you’ve now stated, ask your pastor. If he doesn’t have the answers get another opinion of someone you know, not someone in the comment section on the net. I do know of a mission group specializing in getting teenagers to come to church and there are more who work on college campuses, etc. Certain denominations are better at bringing in members than others. Your church may be the kind where the pastor ages with the congregation and they don’t go after new members. There is nothing wrong with that.

          • Concerned Christian

            I asked the question because I try to understand the perspective of people that appear to see things differently than I do.

            I use the comment section on the net and people I meet in my everyday life, my pastor, to get a perspective outside of my worldview, i personally find it helpful.

          • AndRebecca

            So you’ve never gone to a church service?

          • Concerned Christian

            I’ve been in church since I was probably three or four. My parents told me that if I was going to stay in their house, I was going to do two things:

            1. Go to Church – Anytime the doors opened.
            2. Go to School – Get good grades

            I shared that same message with my kids. When my son went off to college he wanted me to go to his church to make sure I agreed with his decision, which i did.

            I’m a firm believer in Proverbs 22:6

            I even went to a church with a conservative black minister for years. This same minister is a trump supporter. I consider this man to be my spiritual father. I still listen to his sermons on a daily basis.

          • AndRebecca

            So, why don’t you ask your minister what you can do to help bring more young people into your church, or have you already asked?

          • Concerned Christian

            At my church there is a great deal of out reach and tons of programs.

            I’m helping another pastor in this area as well.

          • AndRebecca

            You are confusing the state and church. You say each are demanding rights that everyone has. The church doesn’t grant state rights.

          • Concerned Christian

            Evangelicals are very vocal politically. they are using the political system to protect themselves. The argument is that gays are demanding rights that infringe on the rights of Christians. They are saying that gays are demanding extra rights.

            My earlier comment is that conservatives including evangelicals always accuse others of demanding what the others see as their inherent rights.

            You can say I’m confusing state and church, but the way evangelicals showed up for trump, I’m not the only one.

          • AndRebecca

            Christians started this country and because of them, we have citizen participation built in. Evangelicals are doing their civic duty. We don’t teach civic responsibility in the schools ,like we used to. In fact nothing much is taught in the schools and we have the test results to prove it. What rights do you think you don’t have? And what rights do you think women and blacks, and immigrants are missing? And gays?

          • Concerned Christian

            “Evangelicals are doing their civic duty”

            so then what’s my confusion about the difference between church and state? There apparently isn’t one for Evangelicals?

            For blacks the right to not be shot first and then asked questions later. Or to have the police called at a Starbucks or the police called on black women at a golf course, or the police called on a black student at Yale.

            For women the constant barrage of being told what they can and cannot do with their body. Or the right to equal pay.

            For immigrants, the right to not be harassed because someone thinks you’re a drug dealer, terrorist, or rapist. The right to not have their citizenship challenged because of how they look.

            Gays, the constant threat of the reversal of rights they have achieved i.e. marriage, equality in the workplace, the right to serve their country. Two appointed conservative judges to the supreme court could change all of that.

            what rights do you think Christians are being deprived of?

          • AndRebecca

            Didn’t they teach you anything in school? Citizens of any stripe can vote and be active in politics including evangelicals. Where did you get the idea that they can’t? Everyone has the right to be treated fairly by the police. I’m a woman and don’t feel my rights are missing. My husband is an immigrant and we discuss politics all the time, and he will tell you his rights are not missing, and he would think you are being silly. As for gays, I don’t believe there is a right for two men to get married, and it certainly isn’t in the Constitution and abortion “rights” certainly aren’t in the Constitution either.

          • Concerned Christian

            “Citizens of any stripe can vote and be active in politics including evangelicals.”

            My point is that you keep saying I’m confusing Church and State. I’m saying that I’m not. You claim that Christians have the right to have their voices heard. I completely agree.

            “Everyone has the right to be treated fairly by the police. I’m a woman and don’t feel my rights are missing. My husband is an immigrant and we discuss politics all the time, and he will tell you his rights are not missing, and he would think you are being silly. ”

            This week alone, people of my color had the police called on them at Yale for sleeping and at an Airbnb for not speaking. A person was just arrested for trying to have his black neighborhood killed by a white supremacist group. No need to speak about the number of unarmed blacks that have been killed by the police. So your husband may think I’m silly but given the number of unarmed blacks that have been shot, i think I’m being careful and aware.

            Also, here are examples of discrimination that I’m talking about:

            A school district in Oregon is accused of forcing LGBTQ students to read the Bible as punishment

            At Yale, Starbucks and everywhere else, being black in America really is this hard

            This article on Stream is blaming women for the behavior of men.
            Eric Schneiderman: This is What Third Wave Feminism Looks Like

            Gender discrimination comes in many forms for today’s working women

            Muslims inside FBI describe culture of suspicion and fear: ‘It is cancer’

            Trump’s travel ban is just one of many US policies that legalize discrimination against Muslims

            I realize that your husband like other immigrants to this country don’t feel like they are discriminated against. But maybe, just maybe, they don’t have the full story!

          • AndRebecca

            How do you get away with posting websites here? …
            I can find more sites where Christians are being forced to do things against their religion than any against gays. I haven’t read your stories, but I’m not understanding why people should sleep at Yale, and they got in trouble because they didn’t speak at an Airbnb- and this created problems? …And a person was arrested for what I think you are trying to say: have his neighbor killed by a white supremacist group? What exactly does this have to do with the article above, or what even the discussion you started above? All the police shootings are investigated, and there are records kept by the government which can be found on the net. There are Leftist “churches” protesting about different political causes all the time. And there are evangelicals protesting things like abortions all the time. This site has a certain point of view and presents certain problems that particular Christians are interested in. There are other sites interested in your concerns. I have found over two million pro-gay websites. You have options.

          • Concerned Christian

            “How do you get away with posting websites here? …”

            So just like church, you don’t want to hear differing views or the experience of others that may shape their view of america and the church.

            “but I’m not understanding why people should sleep at Yale”
            “they got in trouble because they didn’t speak at an Airbnb”
            “a person was arrested for what I think you are trying to say: have his neighbor killed by a white supremacist group?”

            It seems that conservatives in general don’t understand and more to the point don’t care.

            “What exactly does this have to do with the article above, or what even the discussion you started above?”

            Conservatives don’t care to understand the perspective of others. Then assume that any differing opinion is an attack. This makes it easy to ignore the perspective of others.

            Personally, I like differing opinions, it makes me think about why I believe what I believe. I’ve noticed that a lot of conservatives on Stream don’t like differing opinions. they simply like hearing what reinforces their belief.

            “How do you get away with posting websites here? …”

            Because I’m an American! 🙂

          • AndRebecca

            First of all, at the top of this page is a terms of use statement and it used to say no posting of other websites, but I don’t see that anymore so I guess anyone can do that now, like you did. Second, the church and the people in it like me, have heard the other side. I for one was raised by a true believing Socialist who worked in the Democratic Party behind the scenes in order to bring Socialism to America. She was very good at it. I was a brainwashed Leftist for many years. As for what you said about Yale and the rest, I happen to be able to get on the websites of the folks who back sleep ins, sit ins or whatever else and see if they are communist backed or not. By asking you about it, I’m trying to see how brainwashed you are. As for differing opinions, I just stated I used to be of the other opinion, and had a political epiphany a few years ago. Leftists, including myself as I used to be, think they are smarter, and more open minded than other people. Nothing could be further from the truth and that goes for you, too.

          • Concerned Christian

            So if i don’t agree with you I’m “brainwashed”?

            The one thing I know for sure is that I don’t think you’re brainwashed or stupid for believing what you believe.

            However, this is the main reason I don’t believe in joining groups. Groups have a tendency of believing that the group can never be wrong and that anyone who disagrees with the group does so for some nefarious reason.

            I’ve met a lot of people in my life ranging from growing up in a small town, spending time in the AF, going to college, working in finance, working in IT, joining different churches, getting married, having kids, and spending time overseas. In all that time, I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone that I thought was brainwashed.

          • AndRebecca

            Your record still holds as to no one who has met you had called you brainwashed, since I have never met you. If you state certain things on a comment blog, people are going to make decisions based on that. If you think one way, even though other Christians including your life long spiritual leader think another way, there’s some problem with logic, don’t you think? Like brainwashing. Think about it.

          • Concerned Christian

            “If you think one way, even though other Christians including your life long spiritual leader think another way, there’s some problem with logic, don’t you think?”

            Not at all. When I was 17, I decided that I wanted to go into the Air Force instead of going to college. The night I told my parents, my dad got up from bed and stated “you just want to follow your d#@% friends”. He didn’t realize that I had been intrigued with the AF since I was 12. But eventually he relented. Since I was under 18, both of my parents had to sign documentation giving me permission to join. I had peace with my decision but I prayed and ask God to show me if I was making this decision for any negative reason. Exodus 20:12 has always meant a lot to me. But it didn’t give my parents or anyone else the right to control my life.

            Long story short, I got out of the AF after four years and paid my way through college, like I said I would. Then my parents were ecstatic with my decision! 🙂

            Bottom line is that this experience taught me that I could trust my own individual relationship with God. As I told you, I have been in the church and thus around Christians my whole life. I have been around very liberal Christians who were on fire for God and very conservative Christians who were on fire for God. So the idea that my old pastor thinks differently is a reflection of some problem with my logic doesn’t cause me anymore stress than the fact that my current pastor does agree with my position.

            I’m not wrong because someone disagrees with me and I’m not right because someone agrees with me. But I have peace with God and that means everything to me!

          • AndRebecca

            It helps me think about things when I get answers on the net. I like Dr. Brown’s answers. And all of us are dealing with our sinful nature, as you’ve pointed out, so Romans 7:14-25 is about that, and Jude 1:4 is about the church today being led into immorality by certain men.

          • AndRebecca

            My comments aren’t being posted for some reason.

          • Concerned Christian

            that happens sometimes. 🙂

          • Bryan

            Of course both are sins. And as I stated above both need to be dealt with with compassion yet still as sins. My point is that just because one has more coverage at this time doesn’t make it or the other less sinful.
            Also, you have several causes for adultery. It could be the simple, yet unfortunately common, two church members start spending time together and end up in an affair. But you also have people who were not believers when they got divorced and remarried or who lived together before getting married and now that they are believers, they have recognized their sin and asked for forgiveness. Then there are believers who got divorced, didn’t, for whatever reason, think that it was a sin and then got remarried. After that, God convicts them of their unfaithfulness to their first spouse and they seek forgiveness. Divorcing their current spouse is not an option. So they have the scars of sin but are yet forgiven.
            These sins differ from homosexuality in that you have two people joined together and sinning together. You don’t have the same joining in a homosexual relationship. There is an independence in homosexuality that is more similar to the first case of adultery above than to the other instances. In the first example, if both people are married to others, they can end the affair, confess, and deal with the ramifications but move on from this and sin no more. Similarly with homosexuality, the person can decide to not entertain that desire and move on and sin no more as well.
            There is need to deal with the sexual brokenness within the church. This is being done both by the church and by other organizations associated with the church (Family Life, Focus on the Family, New Life, etc.). There is also great pressure from outside the church to affirm homosexuality. So the battle is on both fronts. And it must continue to be on both fronts until Christ returns.

          • Concerned Christian

            What’s funny is the level of compassion for an adulterer versus a homosexual. I believe the reason is because adultery stares churches right in the face.

            The cost of adultery is far higher to society than the cost of homosexuality. Just in the impact to kids alone. However, the face of adultery can be seen in leaders of countries, businesses, and churches. So adultery gets a kind pat on the back with love and understanding. While the worst can be imaged of homosexuals.

            You can’t call a serial adultery a degenerate or Homofascist (not saying that you said that) and then vote for them to be president. Adulterers can live out their own american dream in-spite of their behavior. Homosexuals cannot.

          • Bryan

            I believe we need more compassion for the homosexual. But that does not mean that I am affirming the homosexual. The same applies to the adulterer.
            When was the last time you were in a conservative church? Have you seen the prejudice against divorced people? I have. They tend to be shunned or coddled without really getting to know them. Or if you’re the kid of a divorced parent, you get that condescending look from the parents of your friends who’s parents aren’t divorced. I’ve watched that. I confess I’ve probably inadvertently done that. It’s getting less because now there are ministries dedicated to reaching divorced and single moms. Whole divisions of ministries like Focus on the Family, etc. are devoted to “blended families”. In part that’s because they were generally unreached before and in part it’s because churches need members. There is a huge bias against divorce within the conservative christian church.
            As far as the cost of the actual sin, one impacts potentially two families and the scars it leaves on the children can be devastating. The other doesn’t create children so there is a loss to society that way. I think, even on human terms of weighing sin, they are close to equal, though I could be persuaded in either direction.
            As for living out the American dream, how hard is it for the homosexual to live out life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? Other than purely religious institutions, who won’t hire a homosexual employee? How many really care? I would venture most Americans have a live and let live mentality. The problem is that this isn’t good enough for the most vocal of the homosexual community. If their lifestyle isn’t being celebrated then, to them, it’s being repressed. That’s not particularly true either.

          • Concerned Christian

            yes, i have attended conservative churches and I know that there use to be a sigma to divorce but that was years ago. It really started easing off when Reagan became president.

            also, in terms of life liberty and happiness, members of the LGBT community still have this dark cloud hanging over them. Trump just announced a ban on transgenders in the military.

            So when you say their “lifestyle isn’t being celebrated then, to them, it’s being repressed.”

            Can you say with certainty that if possible a supreme court may not one day reverse it’s decision on gay marriage? Dr. Brown would certainly be in favor of it as well as most evangelicals.

            Just like the black community’s, “say it loud, i’m proud”, or the NRA at it’s latest conference, they celebrate to make sure others know that they are not ashamed and will fight for their rights.

        • JP

          “4 And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”
          Matthew 19:4-6

          No room for homosexual “marriage”.

          • Concerned Christian

            is there room for adultery or polygamy?

          • JP


          • Concerned Christian

            Yet I wonder how many articles have been written on Stream with respect to homosexuality as opposed to adultery?

            A 50 plus percent divorce rate for Christians may indicate that there is indeed room for at least adultery. Or maybe Stream should change it’s focus?

          • JP

            No adulterer is trying to justify their adultery. The homosexual is. That is why it must be confronted and refuted on multiple levels.

          • Concerned Christian

            A male adulterer doesn’t need to. They can easily become president of the US. We’ve seen plenty of Christians enthusiastically vote for and support a serial adulterer. Plenty of Christians in their churches work along side adulterers.

            However, will those same Christians vote for a member of the LGBT community? Will they allow a member of the LGBT community to participate in the church?

            Tell me, in what context does a male adulterer have to justify their behavior? if you can become president, with the support of Christians, is there really a need to justify it? It seems that the voices that should matter the most have already provided the necessary justification.

          • JP

            No special rights are given to adulterers because they prefer adultery. The lbgt crowd is demanding rights based on their preferences. In fact they want to be accepted as equal based on their homosexual preferences.

          • Concerned Christian

            What special right does an adulterer need to demand?

            There’s no need to demand what you’re not being deprived of.

            –Blacks were demanding equal rights because they didn’t have them.
            –Women were demanding equal rights because they didn’t have them.
            –Members of the LGBT community are demanding equal rights because they don’t have them

            Adulterer are not demanding equal rights because they can be leaders of countries, of industry, and of churches. In many cases, their spouses don’t even leave them

            Trump cheated with a porn star and David Vitter cheated with a prostitute. Their punishment? Trump is still strongly supported by evangelicals. Vitter won re-election of his senate seat and his wife just got appointed to the federal bench as a judge.

            So again I say, what special right does an adulterer need to demand?

          • JP

            Adulterers don;t demand special rights but the lbgt crowd does.

          • Concerned Christian

            What special right does an adulterer need to demand?

          • JP


          • Concerned Christian

            correct, evangelicals have made sure they don’t have to:

            “Adulterer are not demanding equal rights because they can be leaders of countries, of industry, and of churches.”

          • JP

            no doubt some leaders are adulterers. However, none are justifying their sin like those who support the lbgt propaganda.

          • Concerned Christian

            well there is really one truism about life. if it doesn’t affect “me” who cares. if it affects “me” i’ll rationalize it.

            Adultery affects conservative Christians, homosexuality does not. Conservative Christians hate homosexuality because it doesn’t affect them. It might be a little difficult to have church if you get rid of the adulterers and the divorced!

            Saying that evangelicals don’t justify adultery in the face of it’s support of trump and others is laughable.

          • JP

            Adultery affects those families involved in it. The lbgt propaganda affects everyone. Being a woman is extremely difficult today. Who knows if some guy will decide to use the same bathrooms and locker rooms she does.

          • Concerned Christian

            “Adultery affects those families involved in it.” Really?


            “Parental separation/divorce is associated with academic difficulties, including lower grades and prematurely dropping out of school, and greater disruptive behaviours (e.g., being oppositional with authority figures, getting into fights, stealing, and using and abusing alcohol and illegal drugs). Children and adolescents who experience the divorce of their parents also have higher rates of depressed mood, lower self-esteem, and emotional distress.”

            “Children of divorce are more likely to experience poverty, educational failure, early and risky sexual activity, non-marital childbirth, earlier marriage, cohabitation, marital discord and divorce. In fact, emotional problems associated with divorce actually increase during young adulthood.”

            “Being a woman is extremely difficult today.”

            I guarantee that you have not met a divorced woman who said fear of a bathroom equates to the difficulty of adultery and/or divorce.

            If you seriously believe that adultery only affects the families involved then it truly makes sense why conservative churches treat it the way they do.

          • JP

            And who is saying divorce is a good thing? Yet we are being told that homosexuality is a good thing.

          • Concerned Christian

            Well if there were a poll, most people would say that homosexuality is a better thing than divorce.

            Why do you think people don’t want to get married? Do you think it has something to do with the high divorce rate? How many people in this country “DON’T KNOW” someone that has cheated or been cheated on? How many people have not been directly impacted by divorce or know someone that has? why do you think so many people live together before marriage?

            I love Romans 2:24
            As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”

            Yes, the majority of people see homosexuality the same way the church sees adultery and divorce. Something between the individuals involved.
            The difference is that divorce doesn’t just impact the individuals involved.
            it has a far more negative impact on the church and on society. Conservative Christians can’t see that people are rejecting marriage because of the pain that the church is choosing to ignore.

            If marriage is a good thing then the church should not have a 50% divorce rate. The acceptance of homosexuals is directly related to the fact that people DON’T believe the church when it proclaims the sanity of marriage. The same goes for people living together.

            If the Gentiles are blaspheming marriage, they’re just following the example that’s been set by Christians.

          • JP

            Homosexuality is just as bad as committing adultery. Those that engage in it will not inherit the kingdom of God. This means they will be condemned. Homosexuality is having a far negative impact on society than divorce.

          • Concerned Christian

            “Homosexuality is just as bad as committing adultery”

            then why does the church condemn it more?

            How many people do you personally know that have personal experience with divorce or adultery?

            do you think they believe homosexuality has had a more negative impact?

            As a matter of fact what are the negative impacts of homosexuality? I’ve given you my list for divorce.

          • JP

            The church condemns it more because the lies of the lbgt crowd must be refuted with the truth. There is no movement of adulterers trying to change society and the church as the lbgt crowd is trying to do with lies.

          • Concerned Christian

            trump has been married three times and cheated with a porn star. His son has followed suit with the same behavior. You don’t think that affects society?

            Adulterers are having a far bigger impact on society than anything gays are doing. We know that people are getting married less, living with multiple partners, and having more kids outside of marriage.

            Marriage Is Declining Rapidly—Does It Matter?

            The irony is that the only people that seem to want to get married are gays.

            There is a certainly a movement by adulterers to change society. It’s just being clouded by church.

          • JP

            Who cares about Trump. His stand against abortion and homosexuality makes him a good president by the world’s standards.

            If there is a movement in the church to justify adultery then we deal with that if it happens. That to will be refuted like homosexuality is in many churches.

          • Trilemma

            No room for bachelorhood either.

          • Ken Abbott

            That changed in the new covenant. Whereas before it was considered hugely important for Jewish men to marry and have children, Jesus and his apostles upheld a model of singleness and celibacy, while recognizing that not everyone is called to that life.

          • AndRebecca

            I missed the singleness and celibacy of the apostles. I thought some of them were married. The Roman Catholic Church didn’t have celibate priests until long after the apostles, or so I’ve read.

          • Ken Abbott

            You misconstrued my point. We know Peter was married (can’t have a mother-in-law without a wife) and it is likely Paul was married at one time. However, Paul also exhorted singleness and celibacy for those who were called to it, as did our Lord himself. My response to Trilemma was to remind him that expectations for marriage changed from the old to the new covenant.

          • AndRebecca

            I’ve missed the model of singleness of Jesus. Surely He was single, but I have never taken that as what He expected of others, since He is God and we aren’t. Paul did seem to say singleness was O.K. for some, but more so for the ones intending to be on missions in those days.

          • Ken Abbott

            Following on to Jesus’ answer to the Pharisees who asked him about divorce (Matthew 19), his disciples remarked that perhaps it would be better not to be married. He replied that this was not for everyone–that some cannot be married and others have renounced marriage for the kingdom of heaven. But he did not indicate this was to be the general condition of his followers–only for those who could accept it, ostensibly because God called them to it.

          • AndRebecca

            Agreed. Celibacy was not something to be aspired to. Celibacy was started in the Catholic Church in 1139 and reaffirmed in 1563. Celibacy was one of the problems the Protestants had with the RCC. And the Lollards and others thought it purposefully promoted homosexuality and the degradation of women, we are talking about that here.

          • Ken Abbott

            Also agreed. Enforced celibacy–demanding sexual continency of persons who are not so gifted–is a recipe for all kinds of mischief, as exemplified in many medieval (and later) persons who took on monastic vows, often involuntarily because they were spare kids given to monasteries and convents by aristocratic families looking to keep the family holdings intact.

    • Paul

      “If we want to define God’s Law by the one man one woman concept, is the church itself in violation? Was Moses and the other Patriarchs in violation since they have multiple-wives?”

      There’s a problem in your question in that Moses predates the church so his actions don’t cause the church to be in violation of itself. It’s like somehow assuming the actions of King Henry VIII puts the US govt in violation of the Constitution.

      Broadly speaking though, the Bible has plenty of the unvarnished sinful actions of those following God. None of it makes sin good, but serves to illustrate the nature of fallen humanity and the perfection of Christ.

    • Ken Abbott

      Why doesn’t the church come down harder on the matter of unbiblical divorce? Because American Protestants have a generally lousy ecclesiology and the American church is exceptionally lax in exercising member discipline. Pastors and elders are wary of confronting people about their sins because they know in many instances said persons will reject discipline and start attending church elsewhere.

      • Paul

        Need those bodies in the pews to pay the mortgage and payroll. Another ugly side of the business of church

      • Concerned Christian

        i agree

        • Ken Abbott

          I’m glad, CC. Rather than embroil myself in the lengthy thread below between you and JP, I’d like to insert an observation here that not all conservative Protestant churches are as lax or uncaring about matters of adultery and divorce as you appear to believe from your various posts. My own PCA congregation takes matters of church discipline quite seriously. If the elders know of adulterous relationships or other sexual immorality (including premarital sexual activity), persons are firmly yet lovingly confronted on the matter in keeping with the established scriptural prescriptions for handling such matters. There are biblical grounds for divorce, but if a couple is pursuing divorce for unbiblical reasons the elders will address that as well. The tricky part, as I indicated above, is getting church members to submit to discipline when it is right to do so. Nobody likes it; it takes a well-instructed Christian, and no little activity of the Holy Spirit within, to be humble and endure correction. But in those instances when discipline has been successful at correction AND restoration, the outcome has been to increase joy and to edify the entire church body.

          • Concerned Christian

            “Rather than embroil myself in the lengthy thread “, yes please don’t. lol

            Yes, my church does the same, so i’m not saying that churches don’t address it period. But here’s what I see as the problem.

            How many articles on Stream have been written about homosexuality versus the number written on divorce? By far the social cost of divorce are far higher to that of homosexuality. The difference is that there’s a face in church for divorce but not for homosexuality.

          • Ken Abbott

            I daresay that if there were a significant societal movement the object of which was to legitimize and mainstream adulterous behavior–while denying that to be an adulterer is in any way immoral and that the Bible’s teaching against adultery has been misinterpreted–that we would see articles here written in opposition and hear sermons preached from many pulpits.

            The simple fact is that the place where there is right now loud and persistent opposition to biblical morality is from persons identifying and allied with the LGBTQ community. To fail to confront this prophetically would be a dereliction of Christian duty and spiritual cowardice.

          • Concerned Christian

            “To fail to confront this prophetically would be a dereliction of Christian duty and spiritual cowardice.”

            I believe this is what the church is failing to confront:

            Consequences of Separation/Divorce for Children

            “Parental separation/divorce is associated with academic difficulties, including lower grades and prematurely dropping out of school, and greater disruptive behaviours (e.g., being oppositional with authority figures, getting into fights, stealing, and using and abusing alcohol and illegal drugs). Children and adolescents who experience the divorce of their parents also have higher rates of depressed mood, lower self-esteem, and emotional distress.

            Children of divorce are more likely to experience poverty, educational failure, early and risky sexual activity, non-marital childbirth, earlier marriage, cohabitation, marital discord and divorce.”

            This is just the children. Think about the parents?

            You don’t see articles because adultery cuts to close to home. If evangelicals go down that path, they will have to justify not condemning trump. They will also have to face the many members in their congregations.

          • Ken Abbott

            Hey, if “The Stream” would be willing to publish it, I’d write that article myself.

          • Concerned Christian

            Cool, i would too! 🙂

    • Patmos

      “Why doesn’t the church come down harder on this topic?”

      If you mean in comparison to LGBT, which you probably do considering the context here and your history of trolling, I have yet to see a denomination celebrate and welcome adultery like LGBT. You also don’t see any parades for adultery in society at large, or misguided claims that it should be a right or considered an orientation. Who knows, maybe we’ll get there one day!

      • Concerned Christian

        what i’m saying is that in churches across america and in the pulpit, there are far more adulterers than members of the LGBT community.

        the president of the US has been married 3 times and had an affair with a porn star. Yet his conservative christian support is “huge”! I would argue that there are plenty of denominations that celebrate and welcome adultery. They just make themselves feel better by calling it compassion or some other excuse.

        The realty is that it’s only none Christians or Christians committing minority sins (homosexuality) that are held to Christian Conservative standards.

    • tz1

      The other failing is, as Charles Provan DOCUMENTED in The Bible and Birth Control (available online), that between Luther, Zwingle, Wesley, Calvin, and the Council of Dort, they declared Contraception intrinsically evil, and a SODOMIC sin (to quote Luther).

      Until 1930 when the Anglicans, known for Pope Henry VIII who said divorce was fine (as did Luther). Then it was only in extremis. By 1970, the Catholics drew a line with Humanae Vitae, but the Protestants said, get married, have all kinds of perverted, bizarre, and barren sex, slam the door on God creating a new soul, until you are ready, then have only as many as you want, and no more.

      Marriage with contraception is a Gay Marriage. If a married “christian” couple does EXACTLY what a Gay couple does, no matter how perverse and sterile, how can it be right?

      • Andrew Mason

        Haven’t we covered this before? And what of couples where STDs exist in the relationship, or there are extreme genetic problems e.g. early onset Alzheimers, Muscular Dystrophy and other such conditions? Since Scripture does record sterile marriages, to equate them with homosexual marriages is absurd and insulting.

        • tz1

          Where did the STD come from?
          If there are extreme genetic problems, they probably were known before marriage, or should have been.
          There is a difference between Barenness and INTENTIONAL sterile marriages.
          The better case would if the Mother would be endangered by another pregnancy which I won’t address because you brought up strawmen.

          • Andrew Mason

            Parents can pass STDs onto children, and blood transfusions have caused problems too. Not every STD case is contracted via sexual intercourse or drug use.

            Sure the extreme genetic problems were known beforehand. Are you suggesting that genetically disadvantaged people ought not to marry? There’s nothing in Scripture to say that disabled people must not marry.

            Not actually strawmen – I’ve friends with serious genetic issues, though I may be mistaken about the precise details, and a missionary friend who won’t be having children because of a family history of extreme post-natal depression, though I understand there may be plans for cross-cultural adoption.

    • Andrew Mason

      And Paul offers a second justification – a non-believing spouse who seeks a divorce. While Christians are admonished to not wed a non-believer, and those who once were non-believers but reoriented to Christ admonished to not seek a divorce, they’re not obligated to preserve the marriage. Note too that Jesus only condemns the offending party – the man who seeks the divorce to wed another wife. His wife is not at fault and thus permitted to remarry. An unspoken exception would also exist for those guilty of death penalty crimes. Whereas a murder etc would have been stoned in ancient Israel our modern ‘enlightened’ society instead expects the wife to stay married ’til her husband dies of old age in prison.

      Where is the prohibition on multiple marriages (I presume you mean polygamous) marriages in the Bible? In much the same place as pederatic relationships – implied rather than explicit.

      As regards Moses and the Patriarchs having multiple wives (and Moses is disputed), you presume that what was tolerated is what was desired. Consider, Abraham’s marriage to Hagar at his wife Sarah’s demand has resulted in no end of trouble for the IsraeliteJewish people that continues to this day, and the marriage itself is depicted as bad.

      • Concerned Christian

        Well we can add in the fact that David had multiple wives.

        So if the Bible explicitly denounces homosexuality. If it explicitly denounces divorce and we say that It implicitly condemns polygamy, then aren’t we wrong for only stressing two of those three categories?

        • Andrew Mason

          Which categories are stressed though? Polygamy exists only with the context of Islam and Mormonism, and even then isn’t especially common, so why would a church dedicate significant focus to it? Divorce is certainly common within society but not so common within churches – yes it depends on the church in question, so as long as there’s no direct impact, why would there be significant focus? Homosexuality is seeking legislative changes which threaten religious freedom, amongst other things, so while churches may not discuss the subject a lot, it is of significant concern.

          • Concerned Christian

            There in lies the issue. The divorce rate amongst Christians is over 50%. this affects the people involved, the children, and others that are looking to Christians as examples. How much time do pastors spend dealing with issues that arise from divorce and adultery? How much time do schools spend dealing with these kids? How much time does society spend dealing with this?

            Why do you think that sex outside of marriage and living together before marriage is acceptable? Could it be that people don’t want to get married because they fear getting married?

            So when you look at threats to church, divorce is the threat. Can you really tell a child that a homosexual is a bigger threat to them than the trauma of their parents getting a divorce? Can you tell a boy to wait until you’re married when you see that their marriage may fail anyway?

            “Homosexuality is seeking legislative changes which threaten religious freedom,”

            the church is doing that all on it’s own.

          • Andrew Mason

            Where is that 50% divorce rate from? Is it 50% of those who tick the census box, 50% of those raised Christian, 50% of those who become Bible believing Christians then divorce …? That divorced people enter the church and skew the results is no surprise – the church is for the broken, but Christ following people shouldn’t be getting a divorce since that’s contrary to Scripture. My suspicion, though I don’t have any data on hand, is that most of the divorces occur in the theology lite churches. Within my own church for instance I’m only aware of one remarried pair of old divorcees – and they’ve proven to be on fire for God. I believe the wife’s husband abandoned her (possibly for another woman) hence freeing her for remarriage, whilst the husband ended up divorced whilst outside the church. In both cases they were free for marriage – though I admit I’m not especially familiar with the details.

            Huh? Where’d I say that sex outside marriage and shacking up is acceptable? I’d say people don’t want to marry because they don’t want to commit.

            Honestly? Yes yes I can. Divorce is a bad thing but not the end of the world. Personally I’d recommend a separation rather than a divorce but it’d depend on the circumstances. Are the parents engaged in vicious slanging matches, are they Christians, is …? Tell a boy to wait until I’m married for what???

            I don’t see the church pushing so hard for a change in the status quo.

  • Howard Rosenbaum

    There once was a time when “gay” meant cheerful, joyous or perhaps even colorful. You know that zest for life kind of thing.
    Now when that nearly ubiquitous term is heard in its original context , say in a pre social justice era Hollywood musical , it elicits some sense of a comedic or perhaps exasperating effect with me.
    So, regarding Mr Browns question ? I see it kind of like the response I have when watching those old now societally reconstructed films.
    In today’s context of political & social correctness they seem as noted a bit incongruous. Well so also the concept of “gay Christian ” . It’s just a bit more than a bit incongruous.
    However like those movies of Hollywood past, which appear out of step with current convention the gay Christian, so called when viewed advocates of today’s politically charged environment does not.
    So one must ask who is it that’s asking the question ..? The motivation for the question is often tied to the world view of the one doing the asking.
    Clearly the best answer comes from the one who made them “male & female” . I once proposed an answer to this question. This time I’ll pass on that. Not because I can’t. I’ll pass because I can.
    The scripture speaks for itself. The witness of the Spirit is the arbiter of whats truth & what’s not rightly divided as such. So I concur with Mr Brown regarding scriptural precepts for a godly lifestyle. I also wiould not be surprised at the saved folk from all of the worlds nooks & crannies that I will meet there one on that day I “ crack open” those pearly gates …

  • Paul

    “Once Again, the Big Question: Can You Be Gay and Christian?”

    Absolutely yes! 5. John 15:11
    These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.

    Oh you’re talking about homosexuality.. I agree the answer is no.

    • m-nj

      ha! i see what you did there… 😉

  • Mark

    “I enjoy this, so God must think it’s OK.”


  • Trilemma

    Can a person be gay and Christian? Some Christians say yes. Some Christians say no. Fact is, there are Christians who are gay. If you believe homosexuality is sinful, you will be able to interpret the Bible to support your belief. If you believe homosexuality is not sinful, you also will be able to interpret the Bible to support your belief.

    • You yourself obviously do not understand the Bible. NO only someone who hates Jesus is going to find scripture to support being ‘gay’.

      • Trilemma

        Why doesn’t the Bible explicitly condemn lesbianism?

        • Because of the times in which it was written the world was very malecentric. You might read Romans 1 :26 however, the females are included.

          • Trilemma

            Romans 1:26 says the women engaged in something contrary to nature. It does not explicitly say they engaged in lesbianism. It doesn’t say the women went out and married another woman. What they did could have involved animals, or prostitution, or feminism, or orgies, or idolatry, or drunkenness, or who knows what. To claim it says the women engaged in lesbianism is simply unwarranted.

          • Uuuuhhh Tri, what is about having sex with one another don’t you understand. Why don’t you read the Bible to learn the TRUTH rather than search out little verses here and there to support your sick SINFUL life style. :”There is none so blind as he/she who WILL NOT see”

          • Trilemma

            It doesn’t say the women were having sex with one another. It says the women exchanged the natural use unto that contrary to nature. It doesn’t say exactly what they were doing.

          • You know Tri, I can see that “your mind is like concrete, all mixed up and permanently set” Go your way be happy hell awaits the unteachable. I’m sorry for you

          • Trilemma

            My mind isn’t set but misquoting the Bible won’t change my mind.

  • “Can You Be Gay and Christian?”

    • Trilemma

      Can you be gay and Christian if you’re chaste?

      • Trile, the whole point of being ‘gay’ is to basicallybe promiscuous, a chaste ‘gay’ is an oxymoron.

        • Trilemma

          Being gay is not something a person chooses in order to be promiscuous. There are Christian gay men who have chosen to be chaste because of their Christian beliefs. They can’t choose to not be gay. They can only choose to not engage in certain activities.

          • “They can’t choose to not be gay.”
            Who says? the experts? Hey Trile I’m not going to argue here I just know the Bible and there is no such thing as a homosexual who cant choose not to be. I fully understand it can be difficult but its no more dificult than other things that are forbidden. I’m sure some people would like to murder someone else but they can choose not to.

          • Trilemma

            The consensus of the medical profession is that, “there is no valid scientific evidence that sexual orientation can be changed.” They can choose their behavior but they can’t choose what they are or who they’re attracted to.

  • Boris

    Can you know anything about science and be Christian? Nope.

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