No, a Study Did Not Show That Same-Sex ‘Marriage’ Laws Reduce Teen Suicide Rates

Sloppy statistics and sad science

By William M Briggs Published on February 23, 2017

You probably saw the breathless reports suggesting, as CNN did, that “same-sex marriage may decrease teen suicide attempt rates, study says.” Ah yes, a study. A statistical study. That’s supposed to give it gravitas. In fact many, perhaps even most, statistical studies simply can’t be trusted. Certainly not this one.

The study in question is the peer-reviewed paper “Difference-in-Differences Analysis of the Association Between State Same-Sex Marriage Policies and Adolescent Suicide Attempts” by Julia Raifman, Ellen Moscoe, and S. Bryn Austin, in the once-prestigious journal JAMA Pediatrics.

This widely touted work purports to have discovered, using statistical methods, “that same-sex marriage policies were associated with a 7% reduction in the proportion of all high school students reporting a suicide attempt within the past year.” The authors say there is now “empirical evidence for an association between same-sex marriage policies and mental health outcomes.”

Association.

Think about what the authors are implying: that the mere presence of gmarriage — government-defined marriage, as opposed to marriage defined by reality — stops teens from reporting suicide attempts.

Implications

If what these authors are eager to imply is true, it must have been that some teenagers before gmarriage reported trying to kill themselves because there was no such thing as gmarriage. Or it must be that some teenagers after gmarriage became the “law of the land” thought to themselves, “You know, I was going to report trying to kill myself. But now that Bert and Ernie can be gmarried, I won’t report it.” (Both could be true.)

About the number of teenagers who actually killed themselves because of the absence of gmarriage — or because of the presence of gmarriage — nobody knows. The study only relates how many kids self-reported suicide attempts. Since most of the kids giving answers were 15-16, it can’t have been because of actual forbidden gmarriage or marriage ceremonies that caused reporting suicide attempts (of course, there could have been a handful of child brides or grooms in the data).

This is among all teens, mind you, and not just the minority reporting same-sex attraction or other non-biologically oriented sexual desires. The authors claim the effect was greater in the sexual minority.

Weighted Realities

Forgive the dive into the details, but it’s necessary to see what’s really happening. Via a complicated massaging of numbers, the authors say that before gmarriage

a weighted 8.6% of all high school students and 28.5% of 231 413 students who identified as sexual minorities reported suicide attempts before implementation of same-sex marriage policies. Same-sex marriage policies were associated with a 0.6-percentage point…reduction in suicide attempts, representing a 7% relative reduction in the proportion of high school students attempting suicide owing to same-sex marriage implementation.

A weighted 8.6% to a weighted 8%, they say. This is a 7% reduction, all right, but a minor tweak in the actual weighted number. The numbers are weighted averages across several states and the result of a statistical model called a linear regression. The 0.6 drop is not observed, but is the output from a model.

What’s odd is that the authors report the rate for teens reporting non-traditional sexual desires (a modeled 4% drop from 28.5%), and also for all teens (that modeled 0.6% drop), a group which includes the sexual minority. But they don’t report numbers for normal teens (did this number increase?). This omission leads one to suspect the authors are fooling themselves. This is suggested in two ways.

Complication

The first is that these numbers are modeled averages across states. The numbers within states is anything but straightforward (the authors provide graphs). For instance, some states show reported suicide attempts increasing after gmarriage (New York, Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont, for example). The graphs also indicate a general decline in rates before gmarriage and continuing afterwards (see their Fig. 3). What makes this even more curious is that there are only a couple of years of data after gmarriage (there are many before), making comparisons more prone to error.

But those are all quibbles. Forget them if you like. The second reason is more to the point. The year each state imposed gmarriage was put into the authors’ model: this created a before and after period. The attempted suicide rates in the before period were caused by any number of things, but, the authors imply, some of the attempts were because of the lack of gmarriage.

In the after period, there were still myriad causes of suicide attempts, but one cause was removed (lack of gmarriage). Thus some kids who would have tried to unsuccessfully kill themselves did not try because of gmarriage access (but not for themselves, because they were too young).

Correlation is not Causation!

But — and this is a big but — since no questions about why kids tried to kill themselves were asked, the demarcation of before and after is entirely arbitrary. The year most cited for gmarriage was 2014. Thus not only could access to gmarriage by others (but not for themselves) be used, so could the Ebola epidemic becoming a global health crisis, which also happened in 2014, and which was one of the biggest news stories of the year, according to ABC.

Think: putting Ebola in the model works equally well with gmarriage to explain the data. So do the disasters of those crashing Malaysian airliners, or the fighting in Ukraine and Crimea. So does the 2014 Winter Olympics! And the death of sad-funny-man Robin Williams (all mentioned by ABC).

Or any of an uncountable number of events. The truth is the data do not say, and cannot say, what caused the observed changes. It is sloppy statistics — it is bad science, period — to suggest the one thing the authors thought of had to be the one and only cause of the changes.

It is made worse when this cause has so little bearing on the lives of the people purported to be affected. Fifteen and 16-year-olds do not often marry, and nobody has (yet?) heard of any same-sex “weddings” between teenagers.

And it grows worse yet again, when it is implied, as the authors do imply, that the increases after gmarriage in specific states were actually decreases — because the (modeled) mean across states decreased.

If suicide attempts increased in a state after gmarriage, as it did in several states, could it be that the presence of gmarriage is causing more kids to try and kill themselves?

If not, why not?

Print Friendly
Comments ()
The Stream encourages comments, whether in agreement with the article or not. However, comments that violate our commenting rules or terms of use will be removed. Any commenter who repeatedly violates these rules and terms of use will be blocked from commenting. Comments on The Stream are hosted by Disqus, with logins available through Disqus, Facebook, Twitter or G+ accounts. You must log in to comment. Please flag any comments you see breaking the rules. More detail is available here.
  • Gary

    Sorry, but I won’t accept “same-sex marriage” or homosexuality even if it reduced suicides among homosexuals.

    • Triple T

      Nor would I care if I were the only person left in the whole world who continued to think that way.

    • Timothy Horton

      Nice to know your hatred and bigotry matter so much more to you than helping your fellow humans.

      • Gary

        I’m not going to help perverts. But I help normal people sometimes.

      • suol

        Nice to know your hatred and bigotry matter so much more to you than the health and well-being of the LGBT community.

        • Timothy Horton

          LOL! I hope you don’t mind, I’m going to submit your weapons-grade stupidity…

          “being married means you can’t get STDs”

          …to Fundies Say The Darndest Things! 😀

          • suol

            Says the Fundie who believes that gays want fidelity. Nice projection, LGBT murderer.

          • Timothy Horton

            I did submit your amazingly stupid claim to FSTDT. Check it out in a day or so where your ignorance, bigotry and prejudice will be on display for all to see! 🙂

          • suol

            Not an argument #2.

          • Timothy Horton

            Fleeing cowardly homophobic bigot #3

          • suol

            Not an argument #4. Keep confirming your murderous ways, homophobe.

          • Timothy Horton

            Fleeing cowardly homophobic bigot #7

          • suol

            Not an argument #7.

          • Timothy Horton

            Fleeing cowardly homophobic bigot #8

    • glenbo

      >”even if doing so would eliminate all suicides and bring world peace.”<
      HOLY CRAP!!!
      Seriously?
      Man…you hate LGBT people more than you love society.
      Please, sir…get some help before you hurt someone.

      • Gary

        Queers and their supporters are a cancer on society. Their self-elimination is a good thing.

      • Marty Gwynne

        I wish you would tell trans pre teen kids this, and their parents, gender dysphoria is a real condition, a mental illness. (American Pediatrics Association) I am not kidding and I don’t care one way or the other about Trans folk. Adults can do as they wish, letting pre puberty kids get operations and stuffed with hormones is child abuse

        • glenbo

          >”gender dysphoria is a real condition, a mental illness. (American Pediatrics Association)”<
          Please show me proof ANY scientific organization declares gender dysphoria is a "mental illness."
          Non-religious/conservative right-wing organizations ONLY please.

          • Marty Gwynne

            Wiki has a completely anti science reference “Gender dysphoria or gender identity disorder (GID) is the dysphoria (distress) a person experiences as a result of the sex and gender they were assigned at birth”

            Gender is not assigned at birth, it is assigned at conception, xx or xy chromosomes. Wiki is pure BS

          • glenbo

            >”A biological sex is decided upon fertilisation, not at birth”<
            Physically but not mentally. That happens in-utero.

          • DCM7

            As if conservative organizations are automatically disreputable? If anything, they’re more likely to tell the truth. Most organizations such as you’d prefer to hear from arrived at their position regarding LGBT issues, essentially, by way of 100% political pressure and 0% evidence. This is so well documented that it would be pointless even to try to dispute it.

            I know what positions line up with what I can see in the real world. But it’s because of people willing to ignore reality in favor of “expert opinions” that the powerful word “science” currently gets so heavily abused. Anyone who thinks that power isn’t being abused has the wool over their eyes.

          • glenbo

            >”As if conservative organizations are automatically disreputable?””Most organizations such as you’d prefer to hear from arrived at their position regarding LGBT issues, essentially, by way of 100% political pressure and 0% evidence.””This is so well documented that it would be pointless even to try to dispute it.””Anyonewho thinks that power isn’t being abused has the wool over their eyes.””why should we consider all other forms of bodily dysphoria to be unhealthy and abnormal””It doesn’t make sense, and there’s no reason you shouldn’t be able to see that.”<

            Neither does a child born with both male and female sex organs or born with two heads. Can you explain that? Oh…because Adam ate fruit!

  • Triple T

    Yet another example of the Left cherry picking the parts of things that suit their purposes and interpreting something as they see fit, to make it say what they want it to say. What color is the sky in that world?

  • Autrey Windle

    I do hope none of this nonsense was paid for by the taxpayers. What absolute rubbish!

  • Timothy Horton

    It’s just sad even when we have documented scientific evidence that kindness and acceptance can reduce LGBT teen suicide rates we still get the hateful bigots trying to justify their prejudices.

    • Gary

      There are not nearly enough suicides among sodomites. Needs to be a lot more. And also among their supporters.

    • Marty Gwynne

      lol. Documented science? Where? half baked statistical analysis is not science. There is just not enough evidence to support the conclusion and you are trying to fill the gap with emotion, and shaming, which doesn’t work.

      I have nothing against anything people choose as long as it doesn’t interfere with my life, simples.

    • Marty Gwynne

      There are many factors that can influence the change in reported attempts and none of these are assessed by the research.

      But I guess if you are doing to talk about science in the abstract, then science is not something you “get”

    • DCM7

      Who really hates LGBT people?

      The ones I’ve been closest to would still be alive if they’d listened to people who supposedly “hate” them. The ones who supposedly “love” them would have encouraged them to keep on with the lifestyle that ultimately killed them — perhaps with some caveats about “protection,” but with no regard for the deeper issues they faced.

      • Marty Gwynne

        The rate of post op Trans suicide is alarmingly high, because they are actually suffering from a mental illness anyway, if one regrets the surgery then it must be tragically hard to cope with that!

        • DCM7

          “The rate of post op Trans suicide is alarmingly high”
          Exactly — because, contrary to what they’re led to expect, it doesn’t solve anything — especially the inner issues.

          People are not being told the truth about this and other issues. I do know of one particular “ex-trans” who’s really trying to get the truth out there.

          • Marty Gwynne

            Exactly, mutilating your exterior in an attempt to fix the interior is futile, the issues are mental.
            This is being encouraged by the sick liberal progressive left.

            Justice = You do something and you get what you deserve, you the individual.
            Social Justice = Group justice, based on gender or skin colour, no individual accountability. No nuance.

        • glenbo

          >”The rate of post op Trans suicide is alarmingly high, because they are actually suffering from a mental illness anyway”<
          Aren't mental illnesses considered a disability? Aren't disabilities protected by the ADA…the Americans with Disabilities Act? Therefore, by your assertion transgenders are disables via mental illness, aren't transgenders constitutionally protected?

    • suol

      The only hateful bigots are those who support same-sex “marriage”. By doing so, they expose gays to far higher chances of contracting diseases and STDs, primarily in gay men.

      Why would you support something that has such an alarmingly high chance of ruining gay people’s lives like that? Do you really wish to see them suffer THAT badly, Timothy?

      • Timothy Horton

        Another homophobic bigot speaks up championing denying equal rights to anyone different that himself.

        Do you really think denying marriage rights to any couple, hetero or non, is going to prevent them from having sex? By your stupid logic we could eliminate all STDs just by making ALL marriage illegal, right?

        Please go home, the 17th century needs you.

        • suol

          STDs are far more prevalent in the gay community than hetero-sexuals. It’s an invalid comparison. Plus, marriage means one man and one woman, and if people actually stuck to that, you have virtually a 0% percent chance of getting any STDs. If anything, you’ve just helped make the argument for fidelity in marriage. So thanks for that, gay-hater.

          And you haven’t answered my main question. Are you really so homophobic that you will willingly push the LGBT crowd into situations where they will have much higher chances of contracting diseases?

          • Timothy Horton

            “Plus, marriage means one man and one woman, and if people actually stuck to that, you have virtually a 0% percent chance of getting any STDs.”

            LOL! How stupid does a Fundy have to be to think being married means you can’t get an STD?

            “And you haven’t answered my main question”

            Because your “question” is a loaded one based on your ignorance of biology and deserves no answer.

            Here’s how stupid you Fundies are. You claim gays have higher STD rates because they’re promiscuous. Then when the gays want to marry which is a legal commitment to having only one partner (and what you say prevents STDs) you Fundies try to stop them.

            Take your religious prejudices and intolerance and crawl back under your rock. There’s no place for your kind of hatred in modern society.

          • suol

            Gays don’t want fidelity. There have been several articles in places like the New York Times and Huffington Post, and pro-gay agenda sites like Queerty, that say that fidelity is not a requirement in their marriages. In fact, some go as far as to say that it’s discriminatory to push such a religious doctrine as fidelity upon them, and people who do push it are bigoted. If their partner wants to be with someone, who are they to stop them?

            Congratulations. You’ve just outed yourself as a Fundie, LGBT murderer. How DARE you try to push fidelity on gays?! HATER!

            And again, you deflect and refuse to answer. Now we can all see your hatred for gays on full display. Thanks for making it so easy.

            Tooda-loo, LGBT murderer ;).

          • Timothy Horton

            “Gays don’t want fidelity.”

            How do you know you homophobic bigot? You speak for everyone in the LGBT community now?

            Should we ban all hetero marriages because some hetero couples want an open marriage?

            You holier-that-thou bigoted a-holes are just pathetic.

          • suol

            Not an argument.

          • Timothy Horton

            I agree, your amazingly stupid claim to speak for everyone in the LGBT community isn’t an argument.

            Why didn’t you answer my question?

            Should we ban all hetero marriages because some hetero couples want an open marriage?

          • suol

            Still not an argument. Try again, LGBT murderer.

          • Timothy Horton

            Look at the cowardly homophobic bigot run.

            You still are too craven to answer my question:

            Should we ban all hetero marriages because some hetero couples want an open marriage?

          • suol

            Says the coward who ran away from my question. Are you really so homophobic that you will push LGBT people into sickness and disease?

            Your refusal to answer it confirms your guilt. Continue to dodge, so that others here can see your murderous tendencies.

          • Timothy Horton

            Fleeing cowardly homophobic bigot #4

          • suol

            Not an argument #5.

          • Timothy Horton

            Fleeing cowardly homophobic bigot #6

            Fundies as a rule aren’t very intelligent or brave.

          • suol

            “Fundies as a rule aren’t very intelligent or brave.”

            As you have adeptly demonstrated with your desire to force fidelity onto gays. You just burned yourself, Fundie.

            Oh, and not an argument #6.

          • Timothy Horton

            LOL! I’ve seen lots of really dumb Fundies but you’re in a class by yourself. You whine because gays don’t practice fidelity then whine louder when they offer to commit to fidelity.

          • glenbo

            >”If their partner wants to be with someone, who are they to stop them?”<
            What makes what gay people want any of your business?

      • glenbo

        >”By doing so, they expose gays to far higher chances of contracting diseases and STDs, primarily in gay men.”<
        What is the STD rate of lesbians?

  • Autrey Windle

    Major troll alert…thinks he’s a scientist today

  • Gary

    Sodomites and their supporters have taken sides against God. And God is going to destroy them for it. Part of that destruction includes eternal damnation. Part of that destruction might include diseases of various kinds, including STDs. And sometimes, that destruction will include suicide.

    • DCM7

      Shouldn’t there be something in there about them having a chance for redemption with repentance, just like everyone else?

      • Gary

        I don’t believe God saves sodomites, or their supporters. Wishing that was different won’t change it. And I don’t have to wish for their destruction, that is out of my hands.

        • DCM7

          “I don’t believe God saves sodomites, or their supporters.”

          I agree that such people often seem unlikely to come to Christ. And if they see Christians “hating the sinner, not just the sin” all the time, that won’t exactly attract them. But God wants everyone to come to repentance, and some very unlikely candidates have done just that. I’ve known several formerly “gay” guys who came to Christ and left their old lifestyle behind (including one who seemed like the biggest “flamer” you could imagine). I’m glad they were saved instead of destroyed.

          Loving people doesn’t mean going along with their sin. It means telling them the truth about it and showing them the better way.

          • Gary

            I don’t believe you have ever known a sodomite, or a supporter of sodomites, who God saved.

          • DCM7

            I know it’s true, and there’s no particular reason you should doubt it. The Bible even specifically speaks of “gays” being saved. Either Jesus’ salvation is open to all or it isn’t, and the Bible makes it clear that it is.

          • Gary

            There are no “former homosexuals” in Heaven today. And there won’t be any in the future either. Once homosexual, always homosexual, and NEVER in Heaven.

          • DCM7

            I’m sorry that your feelings about homosexuals lead you to believe that way. But God’s word makes it clear that “gays” can be redeemed and changed, just like all the rest of us fallen sinners can. And untold numbers of former “gays” have experienced that for themselves.

            Should I consider myself “better” than them because the deep sin I was redeemed from didn’t happen to be homosexuality? No, I shouldn’t. And I don’t.

            “Once homosexual, always homosexual” is a lie from the “gay rights” people; it’s an excuse not to seek change and redemption. There’s no reason you should believe it, and I have to wonder why you’d want to.

            I hope you learn to stop hating those who practice that one particular sin, and instead hate the sin because of what it does to people. I hate the harm it did to people I knew, but I rejoice that others found release from it.

          • Gary

            Where in the Bible does it say that God saves sodomites?

            You might not consider yourself better than perverts, and maybe you’re not, but I certainly am. That doesn’t mean I’m not a sinner, but at least I’m not a pervert.

            Romans chapter one says God gives people up to homosexuality. And there is nothing in the Bible that indicates God ever wants them back.

          • DCM7

            Look at I Corinthians 6:9-11.

            The Bible speaks of all manner of sinners who do not seek redemption. It does not set apart homosexuality as some kind of unique sin whose practitioners will never seek it. Romans 1 speaks of particular people who did not seek it; it does not remotely imply that homosexuals never will. Such an idea would certainly not line up with the experiences of many people such as some I’ve known: formerly lived in homosexuality, but are now walking in the light (and showing it). It is the world, not God, who would have you believe there are no such people.

            2 Peter 3:9 – God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. It is not God who closes the door; it is people.

            I’d also recommend that you honestly examine an attitude like “I’m certainly better than them” in the light of Scripture.

            I’ve said what I can say, at least for now. You’re responsible for knowing the kind of stuff I’ve referred to, whether you want to be or not.

          • Gary

            If God saved an “abuser of themselves with mankind” in the past, does that mean He is doing that now? Based on what I have seen, the answer is no.

            Murderers, adulterers, homosexuals, those who have sex with animals, are to be killed. Thieves are to repay what they stole and pay a penalty. It seems clear that God considers some sins worse than others.

          • Ye Olde Statistician

            Such as sins against charity? Sins against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. Mark 3:28-30.

          • Ye Olde Statistician

            You might not consider yourself better than perverts, and maybe you’re not, but I certainly am.

            Ah, the prayer of the Pharisee.

          • Gary

            It is highly likely that I am better than you as well.

          • Timothy Horton

            Gary = self-loathing gay man, the evidence is pretty clear.

        • Timothy Horton

          “I don’t believe God saves sodomites, or their supporters.”

          Hey Gary, do married hetero couples ever engage in a n a l sex?

          • Gary

            Sodomite is a Biblical term for lgbtq. That’s how I use it.

          • Timothy Horton

            Scientifically illiterate people often make up their own definitions.

            You didn’t answer the question:

            Do married hetero couples ever engage in a n a l sex?

          • Gary

            I don’t know. Its none of my business what a man and a woman who are married to each other do in their homes.

          • Timothy Horton

            Then why is it your business what a non-hetero couple who are married to each other do in their homes?

          • Gary

            Non-hetero couples can’t be married. Marriages require a husband and a wife. A husband is always a man, and a wife is always a woman.

          • Timothy Horton

            In the U.S.they certainly can.

            Why is it your business what ANY couple sexually does in the privacy of their own home?

          • Gary

            I don’t try to make it my business what people do in their own homes.

          • Timothy Horton

            You just spent a whole day railing against the LGBT population, calling them every slur you can think of, for what 99% of them do ONLY in their own home.

            You couldn’t be a bigger hypocrite if you tried.

          • Gary

            What perverts do in private is between them and God. What they do in public that affects me, my friends, and my family, I do care about. When they demand acceptance and try to get the government to force people to accept them, then that is my business. If they would keep their lives private, there would be fewer problems.

          • Timothy Horton

            What homophobic bigots do in public is everybody’s problem. The hatred they spew affects me, my friends, my family, the whole population. When they demand the “right” to practice harmful discrimination and try to use the government to force their religious prejudices on everyone then it’s my business. If they would keep their religious based bigotry private, there would be fewer problems.

          • Gary

            I am not trying to get the government to force my religion on anyone. I’m trying to practice my religion without government interference. Like the first amendment says I have the right to do.

          • Timothy Horton

            When you fight against equal civil rights as in marriage for all citizens based solely on your religious bigotry and prejudices then are using the government to push your religious views.

          • Gary

            I am for marriage equality. I support the right of every adult male to marry an adult female, as long as they are not close kin, and as long as neither the man or the woman are already married. I don’t support redefining marriage to suit whatever someone wants.

          • Timothy Horton

            “I am for marriage equality.”

            No you’re not. You only want to allow marriages for couples you personally approve of.

            “I don’t support redefining marriage to suit whatever someone wants.”

            Too late Bunky.

            Up until the early 1900’s it was illegal in the U.S. for a person to marry another of a different religion. Society recognized how unfair and discriminatory that was to the loving couples SO THE LEGAL DEFINITION OF MARRIAGE WAS CHANGED.

            Up until the early 1960’s it was illegal in the U.S. for a person to
            marry another of a different race. Society recognized how unfair
            and discriminatory that was to the loving couples SO THE LEGAL
            DEFINITION OF MARRIAGE WAS CHANGED.

            Up until the early 2010’s it was illegal in the U.S. for a person to
            marry another of the same sex.. Society recognized how unfair
            and discriminatory that was to the loving couples SO THE LEGAL
            DEFINITION OF MARRIAGE WAS CHANGED.

            As this latest study shows removing unfair discrimination from part of the population has a positive effect on ALL the population. Tough if that gets your Fundy knickers in a knot.

            Equality means equality for all, even minorities you personally feel deep animosity towards.

  • Marty Gwynne

    A teen is not considering Marriage if they are a depressed teen. They are depressed, they need medical attention, marriage is not even a factor

    • glenbo

      >”The study concludes these gay teens are depressed because of the Gay issue”<
      Incorrect. The study concludes gay teens are depressed because of social stigma.
      To say depression is inherent in homosexuality is to say homosexuality is inherent.

  • glenbo

    Boy…that didn’t take long…a positive LGBT study emerges, and the religious right has to somehow desperately find a way to shoot it down because conservatives are happier when LGBT kids kill themselves.
    This is disgusting.
    The conclusion of the study…manipulated and distorted in the above absurd article is ACTUALLY as follows:
    LGBT kids living in LGBT rights inclusive communities obviously feel more accepted, say in Massachusetts where transgender inclusive policies have been in place for 20 years (In Cambridge with NO incidents) and where marriage rights are legal are at a substantially lower risk of attempting suicide. LGBT kids living in say Alabama where there are essentially no statewide protections are at a much higher risk of attempting suicide because of the negative social stigma. Having LGBT inclusive rights creates an overall atmosphere of acceptance and reduces stress and anxiety. When you reduce negative social stigma, you reduce stress and anxiety.
    When you reduce stress and anxiety, suicide rates plummet.
    Tell you what…why don’t you ask the transgender kids what they think. And ask their schoolmates. Has anyone done that yet? Does anyone care? Are they to be discarded? So much for being “pro-life.” So much for Christian “love.”
    There is NO rationale in denying transgendered kids the rights to use the restroom of their gender identity. The “safety” issue has been debunked as per Cambridge Massachusetts having this exact same policy since 1997.

    • Timothy Horton

      It’s the same thing on every thread about evolutionary theory too. Every mouth breathing Fundy from miles around slithers out from under its rock. It’s like they can’t wait to show the world what scientifically ignorant and intolerant bigots they are.

      • Triple T

        Are you the Canadian donut guy?

      • youcanthavemyfreedom

        Suggested viewing: Evolution vs. God

    • Gary

      The safety and happiness of perverts is not something of interest to me. People like you who want restrooms and locker rooms open to both sexes are a menace.

      • Timothy Horton

        LOL! Let that Christian love and tolerance flow…

        • Gary

          God is intolerant of perverts. So much so that He sends them all to Hell.

          • Timothy Horton

            Wow Gary, you really are a self-loathing gay man. Have you sought counseling for your self hatred?

          • Gary

            I see you have nothing more to say. When all else fails you resort to that.

          • Timothy Horton

            What should I say to a backwoods inbred lump who espouses hatred and bigotry like you do? Nice tooth?

      • glenbo

        >”The safety and happiness of perverts is not something of interest to me.”<
        You, like your non-existent imaginary god condones murdering of children.
        Sick.

        • Timothy Horton

          “You, like your non-existent imaginary god condones murdering of children.
          Sick”

          C’mon now, everyone knows those millions of women, children, and little babies God murdered in the OT had it coming

          [/sarcasm]

          • Gary

            You will have eternity in Hell to complain about how unfair God is.

          • Timothy Horton

            I might be worried if I believed in your sadistic God’s fantasy punishments.

          • Gary

            You don’t have to believe it now. Wait for it.

          • glenbo

            Prove God is real, please.

          • Gary

            The proof is all around you.

          • glenbo

            >’The proof is all around you.”<

            That's the best you got? The argument from ignorance?

            http://www. logicalfallacies.
            info/presumption/arguing-from-ignorance/

            To access link, delete the space after the dots.

        • Gary

          Opinions vary.

          • glenbo

            >”Opinions vary.”<
            THANK YOU for admitting your bible, with all its child murder is nothing but "opinion."

          • Gary

            You don’t believe the Bible is true, which means you don’t believe any of the stories in it actually happened.

          • glenbo

            >”You don’t believe the Bible is true”<
            Prove the bible is true, please.

          • Gary

            No. I’m happy with your beliefs already.

          • glenbo

            >”No. I’m happy with your beliefs already.”<
            Thank you for demonstrating your argument is vacuous and devoid of merit.
            The "Because my imaginary god says so" argument FAILS when you follow it with "I don't have to prove anything."
            Sad and childish.
            You might as well say "Because my Mommy says so."

          • Gary

            Don’t you understand? I don’t care what you believe. I’m very satisfied with what you are now.

          • glenbo

            >”Don’t you understand? I don’t care what you believe”<
            Ok. Since you don't place value on beliefs, your belief in god have no say or authority.
            Therefore, you are holding an empty sack when you draw on God to bolster your anti-LGBT premise and you come from a vacuum of authority and merit..

          • Gary

            God is real and has the authority to define morality and to say that homosexuality is immoral. And He has. But it does not bother me if you don’t believe that. It should bother you. And someday it will. But I’m good with that.

          • glenbo

            Not to me, therefore I am not obligated to obey.
            Why is homosexuality immoral?

          • Gary

            God requires certain things of you. And there are penalties for your failure.

            Homosexuality is immoral because God said it is.

          • glenbo

            >”God requires certain things of you. And there are penalties for your failure.””Homosexuality is immoral because God said it is.”<
            Why?

          • youcanthavemyfreedom

            Not only is it immoral (an abomination in the eyes of God), it’s also unnatural.

          • Timothy Horton

            “You don’t believe the Bible is true, which means you don’t believe any of the stories in it actually happened”

            Hey dummy…Scotland Yard is a real place but that doesn’t make Sherlock Holmes be a real person.

          • glenbo

            >”You don’t believe the Bible is true, which means you don’t believe any of the stories in it actually happened.”<
            But YOU do. You believe it was ok to flood the earth killing thousands…children and pregnant women.
            You believe that it's okay to own and beat slaves to death.
            You believe rapists are not to be punished, but rewarded by marrying their victims.
            You believe entire groups of people deserve eternal torture for doing no harm to others.
            It's what YOU believe that frightens me.

          • Gary

            Can you prove that slavery is immoral? I know you can’t. You can have an opinion that something is immoral, but its just your opinion. Your opinions have no authority or validity. Nobody has to pay any attention to your opinions. Even you don’t have to.

          • Timothy Horton

            Just like no one has to pay attention to your bigoted opinions backed only by your ignorance and intolerance.

          • Gary

            You’re right that no one has to pay attention to MY opinions. But, everyone does have to pay attention to what God has said. There will be a test later.

          • Timothy Horton

            No one has to accept what you believe about your personal God. That’s what this country is founded on. Freedom of religion also means freedom FROM religion.

          • hmcgaugh

            God flooded this earth because the people had turned wicked and perverted much like it is today. Read Sodom and Gomorrah, read it. You better turn away or you might end up like Lot’s wife. I DO believe the Bible, every word has a purpose! If you want to talk about the murder of babies then look the massacre of 60,000,000 babies since Roe v. Wade and the statics show over 100,000,000 babies aborted. Our God is just, he will do what he has to. What is the progressives and lefts excuse??

          • glenbo

            >”God flooded this earth because the people had turned wicked and perverted much like it is today. “”Read Sodom and Gomorrah””Our God is just””he will do what he has to.”<
            By what mechanism do I determine God exists?

      • Autrey Windle

        Gary, glenbo and timothy hutton are notorious trolls. If you feed them they will never quit spouting hateful garbage at anyone who dares disagree with them. They think perverts in the locker room is the only punishment horrible enough for the stupid straight children. They resent the word of God because the enemy got them when they were in trauma and not one ever came to free them. They need prayers but they no longer want them. Just say no to feeding their vitriol toward Christians or anyone who disagrees with their twisted agendas.

        • Gary

          I see your point, but I kind of enjoy pointing out their wickedness and stupidity. Maybe its a weakness of mine.

        • Timothy Horton

          LOL! Where “troll” means “anyone who posts solid rebuttals to my religious Fundy ignorance and hatred.”

    • Gary

      It would be discrimination to allow only some males to use the female restrooms. If they let one male in, they have to let them all in.

    • Simon Platt

      The original post isn’t criticising (let alone “manipulating or distorting”) the conclusions of this study so much as its method (on which, of course, its conclusions depend). It’s a very well argued and clearly expressed post.

      • glenbo

        >”It’s a very well argued and clearly expressed post.”<

        Really? Can you please explain why I am wrong? And how the
        post was “well argued?”

Inspiration
Looking for Jesus in the Fourth Watch of the Night
Deacon Keith Fournier
More from The Stream
Connect with Us