James Robison: Do you find it difficult as a faith leader to comprehend how people can actually support a platform and candidate that tells them they can’t make it without dependence upon the federal government? And along with that plank also to have the plank that we have the right to take an innocent unborn life? And then to even cheer on a Supreme Court that not only doesn’t give safety to that child but totally casts aside the law of the people in our state insisting that an abortion clinic have proper care for a woman should complications arise so that they could save her life?

Mike Huckabee: I thought we came to a low point in liberalism in 2012 when the Democratic Party put out their little booklet and cartoon called The Life of Julia. It basically showed how from cradle to grave the government was there to hold your hand, lead your steps and without whom you would be absolutely incapable of ever functioning as a human being. You wouldn’t be able to put food on your table or a roof over your head. You couldn’t retire. You couldn’t even have a job. It was the most unbelievable assertion of the power of the government and the weakness of the individual.

I think our founders would be appalled if they ever saw that story, The Life of Julia, because it was the antithesis of what they created with people who were self-governing, self-respecting, and individually responsible for their future, and the government’s only role was to give them some level of protection so they would be freed to pursue happiness. The government was not there to provide happiness. Not ever.

Republicans still believe that we are individuals and if members of my family are poorly educated it doesn’t mean that I have to accept that as my lot in my life. I may have to work a lot harder than someone else, but I have the opportunity to go get an education and it also means I am not stuck where I started.

To hear people on the left tell it, there’s no choice. I find that the Orwellian language that is invoked by the left is stunning. A great example of that is when it comes to the issue of abortion. They don’t ever talk about abortion and taking the life of an unborn child. They talk about “women’s health.” There is nothing healthy about an abortion. It’s an invasive surgical procedure in which one person will absolutely certainly die and the mother will risk life in the process of this surgical procedure.

The government has chosen to treat this differently than a tooth extraction because with a tooth extraction there are very strict requirements on the equipment that has to be present, the training of the medical personnel who are there to preside over those moments.

In an abortion clinic, one of our amazing things is we have thrown out any kind of equality in providing safety for that woman who was having an abortion. Even if you thought it was a great idea, you should think at least that it’s an idea that deserves to be protected by the highest levels of science, but that hasn’t been done. That’s because abortion is not about health. It’s about taking a life. It’s a business. It’s about money. It’s about control.

Robison: You told me long ago that you thought Donald Trump, surprising as it seems, would be teachable. As blustery and full of braggadocio — untactful and even more than ungracious, unkind and really incorrectly so — despite all that you still saw he would be approachable and teachable. How important do you think it is for him to get people to the table of reason, and do you reconfirm that you think he is willing to listen and learn?

Huckabee: I knew him before the campaign when I was in New York every week for Fox. He was a guest on my show, I visited with him in his office on several occasions and I had already gotten to know him. I had gotten to know him as a person who is very much like native-born Israelis. A native-born Israeli is called a “Sabra;” if you ever hear that term it means someone who was born there. They didn’t immigrate there. “Sabra” is like a cactus, that’s kind of a picture of a lot of Israelis. It means prickly on the outside but very tender on the inside. I think that what people don’t understand is that Donald Trump is like a Sabra. Prickly on the outside. There is a bluster, bravado about him that’s part of his brand, part of his way of dealing with people.

He wants to go in the room and take charge, determine what the parameters are. As a business person he’s the kind of guy who goes in the room and says, “Here’s what I want” and it’s bold, audacious, and in some cases it’s ridiculous, but he knows he’s just set the terms of the debate and he’ll be counter offered and probably by the time the counter offer gets to the point of acceptance, he’s now where he really wanted to be when he walked in the room in the first place.

He’s not going to get everything he asked for, but when he walked in and boldly put his stake in the ground, everybody thought, “I can’t believe he asked for that.” Then as things finally got to a point of agreement, I’m sure he walked out of the room and said, “Terrific! I got exactly what I wanted.” That’s a good negotiating tactic and a lot of people haven’t been able to separate that.

Robison: I said quite forcefully that he must hear and heed wisdom. Even leaders in the Old Testament who didn’t have the character strengths that you can see in Mr. Trump, when they heard and heeded the counsel of Joseph, Daniel, the major and minor prophets, then the people and the nation were blessed. I think if he will hear and heed wise counsel, he can actually lead and motivate us in the right direction. If he does not, then I think we just continue on the course toward the loss of freedom and tragic consequences.

Anything else you’d like to say to our readers from your heart to theirs?

Huckabee: People need to realize the next president will not be a perfect person. But the next president will lead this country and make decisions that will affect us for generations. They will likely pick three, maybe four of the Supreme Court justices who will have in their hands whether or not we have a Second Amendment, whether or not we protect religious liberty. And if that’s not important to people, either go vote for Hillary or sit it out.

With Hillary we’re probably going to lose the Second Amendment and major portions of the First. With Trump I think we are protected in both of those.

I think this is the most important point I’ll make today: There is a huge difference between politics and theology. I’ve operated in the universe of theology through church and denominational service. And I’ve been for the past 26 years involved in the political arena. In theology we can be very pure; we have to be pure in fact. It’s all about the purity of doctrine and the orthodoxy of our faith, what we believe, why we believe it and what the authority of it is. Is it an objective authority of God’s Word, or is it the subjective authority of how we feel?

Politics is about the art (it is not a science, it’s an art) of being able to persuade people toward a common goal and recognizing that it’s the art of the doable, not the art of the ideal. You’re never going to be able to make politics a pure form of science in which people do intuitively, automatically what they ought to do. You’re going to have to take it in degrees. Accept it in stages and incrementally. You’re going to have to be patient enough to go into the process knowing you’re going to lose some battles and you’re going to win some battles, but if you’re only in it to win and you’re going to quit the first time you lose, you best not get into it at all because you’ll be wasting your efforts.

Robison: Thank you for your time. This entire conversation has been meaningful to me and those last statements you made are pure wisdom. A lot of the things I’ve shared with the complexities of this election is the absolute irrefutable fact that God has always used imperfect people to accomplish his perfect will. He always has and always will. The real bottom line concerning that is whether or not that imperfect person will hear and heed wise counsel. That’s the key.

Click here to read the first part of this interview.