LIFE Today will host former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee in mid-February to discuss his newest book Rare, Medium or Done Well: Make the Most of Your Life. The Stream’s Nancy Flory recently sat down with Gov. Huckabee to talk politics, faith and his new book.

What do you think about those who tell the faith community to “stay in your lane” and not get involved in politics?

Well, it’s very short-sighted. First of all, to abandon citizenship is not only bad advice, but it’s really almost a complete dereliction of duty. We live in a unique country where citizens run the government. At least we’re supposed to. And if citizens abandon government, then we get what we deserve. We have lost the right to say we don’t like something.

I’ll say it this way: Everyone wants to eat from a clean plate, but somebody has to do dishes. So, unless you want to eat from dirty plates, get in the kitchen and roll up your sleeves and scrub the dishes. That’s really what being in politics is all about.

The Spiritual Battle in the Swamp

Is it a political battle in the swamp or a fierce spiritual battle?

It’s both. I tend to not use the term “swamp.” Here’s why: A swamp from an ecological standpoint actually has a very important purpose. It is a natural filter. So a true swamp, like you would see in south Florida or Louisiana, or even in Arkansas, has a filtering mechanism. What D.C. has become is not a swamp — it’s a sewer. So I call it the sewer, not the swamp, because that’s an insult to the value of a swamp.

But what’s happened is that there is a spiritual component. It’s light versus dark, good versus evil. And that may sound a little arrogant to some people, but it truly is. But it’s also a political battle — it manifests itself politically. But the root and the origin of it is really spiritual. 

House Democrats refused to come to lunch at the White House to meet over the shutdown. Can you talk about the politics of that, the symbolism of it, and the spiritual unwillingness to listen to, and break bread with the other guy?

I think it’s indicative of a very petulant attitude. And it also is clearly revealing. They have no interest in a resolution. They never have been interested in a resolution. They want to create a tension they can blame Trump for. They want the crisis to be big and painful so that people will blame Trump.

But I think they’re overplaying their hand. They take off to Puerto Rico and have fun in the sun. Nancy goes to Hawaii and enjoys a vacation while the government workers are at home. They pretend that they really care.

All of this could be resolved in 15 minutes. This is not a big divide. And their attitude is, “We get everything, he gets nothing.” Well, it can’t work like that. It doesn’t matter what level of politics — whether it’s the city council, school board — it doesn’t work like that. What he’s asked for is, quite frankly, way less than what they’ve been willing to do over and over for years. So, it’s clearly a stubbornness, it’s a petulant kind of resistance that they’re just putting forth, hoping that it will hurt him.

I think they underestimate his resolve and I hope he stays fixated, because if he doesn’t, his presidency is basically over. It would be the end of it. Two things would happen: his supporters would be crushed and they would feel that he capitulated, and the supporters for Schumer and Pelosi would feel that they’ve now won the lottery and they will say, “Okay, we now know — just never ever sit down, visit with him, meet with him, negotiate with him, he’ll give up before we do and we’ll never give in again.” And that’s what we would see.

Trump and His Enemies

Why is this personal venom against Trump to the point your daughter can’t even eat in peace?

Part of it is that he represents, he stands for, and he implements policies that they absolutely hate. Part of it is [that] he brings it on himself by pushing the buttons of his opponents. And the biggest reason is his opponents have never accepted the results of the election of 2016. Rather than accept, “Okay, this election didn’t go our way, we’ll work harder four years from now,” they have spent every moment since that election trying to undo and overturn the result of an election. That’s a dangerous thing to the Republic.

The one thing that crashes a constitutional form of government, more than anything else, is when people fail to respect the due process of an election. Because, that’s the only way we can survive. If we elect a government, if we don’t like it we can change it. There are provisions to intervene with impeachment and various things, but those are extreme and those are the extraordinary circumstances, none of which we’ve seen.

But just to say, “I don’t like the way the election turned out, I’m just going to say no, I’m not going to accept it”’ — my soul, that just is chilling to me. It really would destroy us as a country.

The Country and Its Christians

Where do you think this country is headed politically and spiritually?

It’s hard to predict where we’re headed. I’d like to think that we’re going to come to our senses, but it doesn’t look like it anytime soon. And there’s so many manifestations of insanity, where people try to pretend that there are 57 genders or over 100 genders, or there’s an unlimited number — I mean, that’s nonsense. That’s just crazy nonsense.

The whole politically correct identity politics — it’s very dangerous to our survival. Now, is it a fad and we’re going to get over this, or is this truly the trend? Is Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez really the future? And economic socialism, tax rates between 70 and 90 percent? Or is this just a fad that we’re having to put up with for a while and then people will realize it will destroy us?

And that’s what I don’t know. I want to believe that this is sort of a temporary period of our history where young and very uneducated people are tilting at windmills, but my goodness, the entire university system in this country is deeply ingraining this nonsense into students. If they don’t get out in the real world, get real jobs and find out what they’ve been told is a total lie, I worry about that.

What do you think we can do as Christians?

I think we have to be true to the Word, even though it’s going to mean we’ll be hated for it. I think a lot of Christians don’t want to have the conflict. I’ve seen this so many times where they have a strong belief, but once it pushes them to a point to where they would have to take a stand in some public way that would have consequences that would be negative, they bow out. Christians typically … by our nature we’re not a people that like a fight.

We like reconciliation, it’s who we are. We like to have fellowship, not a fight. But there’s some things you have to fight for. And it doesn’t have to be where it’s hateful fighting, but it does have to be that we take the stand and we do it with a sense of conviction and compassion, but we’re unyielding. 

The Governor’s Book

What prompted you to write Rare, Medium or Done Well?

I didn’t want to do another political book. It’s not that I don’t have things to say, I say stuff all the time that’s political. But I also feel that sometimes people in the world of politics need to step back and be reminded that when our lives are finally adjudicated before the throne of God, it won’t be on the basis of how we voted or who we supported or did we win elections or not, it’s going to be on bigger things. So, it was somewhat of a therapeutic book. For me, it’s an important reminder that what matters most is what matters forever.

I was hoping to frame it in a way when people read it, it was practical and it was simple. But I wanted [them to think] “When my life is over, not at half-time or the third quarter, but when the gun sounds and that’s it, it’s all over and people are staring at my tombstone, what recollections, what feelings, what thoughts do they have? And more importantly, what is the Creator of my life going to say? How will He evaluate?”

That’s where the essence of the book is. If at the end of life you hear God say, “Well done, good and faithful servant,” you got it right.