Progressive Christians Like Pope Francis All Serve the ‘Great Reset’ That Leftist Billionaires Want

Teaching our pastors to kneel before Caesar, Mammon, and Sodom: An interview with theologian John Gravino

By Jason Jones & John Zmirak Published on June 7, 2021

Progressive Christians seem to be falling all over themselves to prove to a hostile culture and government, to financial and global elites, that our Faith is no threat at all. We can lop off whatever historic doctrines, core beliefs, and unfashionable attitudes Caesar demands. What’s left, of course, after all those amputations?

Theologian John Gravino has written a book on the subject, with its focus on Pope Francis. The title is Confronting the Pope of Suspicion. Gravino’s most startling claims are 1) that progressives like Pope Francis are preaching heresy on sexual ethics; 2) that this heresy, spread in seminaries, created the clerical sex abuse crisis; and 3) that Francis is remaking the Catholic church to suit globalist elites. The Stream’s Jason Jones and John Zmirak decided to interview him about these claims and related issues. 

A New and Absolute Ruthlessness

 Jason Jones and John Zmirak: In an essay on your website, you cite Abp. Carlo Maria Vigano. He warned before the 2020 election that the globalist left seeks to use the COVID pandemic for vast, almost apocalyptic ends. You echoed Vigano in citing the “Great Reset.” That’s literally the name used by the billionaire social engineers of the World Economic Forum for how the West must “build back better” after COVID. What do you mean by the Great Reset, speaking politically and economically?

John Gravino: I would refer you to another phrase I use a lot and which I borrowed from Jonah Goldberg. “Liberal fascism.” Leftist elites have seemingly grown impatient with democratic institutions which we in the West have enjoyed now for more than two centuries. To the new Leftists, the First Amendment is an obstacle to be circumvented if it interferes with Leftist goals.

Remember what happened when the New York Post broke the Hunter Biden laptop story?

John Gravino

The liberal fascists at Twitter suspended the Post’s account in order to suppress a legitimate news story which they viewed as harmful to their own political goals (specifically, the presidential election). The greatest evil of the “Great Reset” concerns means more than ends in my view. The problem is not so much that Leftists are promoting their political and economic agendas. That’s what they’re supposed to do. The greatest evil is their demonstrated willingness to circumvent democratic processes, institutions, and principles to undermine the rights of those who disagree with them.

Why else would you oppose voter ID laws that are designed to safeguard the integrity of the election process? Why support universal mail-in ballots when a bipartisan commission led by Jimmy Carter concluded that mail-in ballots constituted the gravest threat to fair and legitimate elections? (Conservatives need to be screaming for a thorough investigation of the 2020 presidential election!)

And don’t get me started on the “defund the police” movement. Kyle Rittenhouse and the McCloskeys are in legal jeopardy because of that wicked movement. And there’s not enough space here to write about the wholly unjustified and draconian “plandemic” lockdown.

What we are witnessing is the adoption of totalitarian tactics by people who claim to celebrate and fight for human rights. And that is the greatest evil of the “Great Reset” in my view. In fact, the term “Great Reset” may itself express Leftist confidence that their scorched-earth tactics will succeed in realizing their totalitarian fantasies.

The Church as a Court Dwarf for Caesar

 How do you see churches coming to collaborate with Big Tech, globalist organizations, the Biden administration, and other forces that favor centralizing power?

First off, let me say that my answer to this question is colored by my experiences as a Catholic. So the answer may not apply equally to all churches. Certainly it doesn’t. The Church’s collaboration with globalists happens two ways.

The first way is money. Churches exist by the charity of others. And that means donations. What happens if a big donor has a political agenda, and he makes support of his agenda a condition for his continued financial support? No doubt, people in the Church might be tempted to play ball. And there’s evidence of that happening in the Catholic Church, possibly in a secret deal with Red China. Or look at Germany. A portion of a German citizen’s taxes is given to the church they claim membership in. But socially liberal citizens might not want to identify with a Church that condemns birth control and homosexuality as sinful. To keep up revenue, Catholic hierarchs could be tempted to pander to a socially liberal majority. Besides financial pressures, the second way that the Church cooperates with the Left is by natural sympathy. Many bishops and Church leaders lean left politically.

Alliances with Evil

 How is the Vatican cooperating politically with China, the Bidens, and population control globalists?

Regarding China, we know two things. Under Pope Francis, the Vatican signed a secret deal with China. And also under Pope Francis, we have not heard a single word of criticism of China from the Vatican. Not even in the midst of mounting evidence of gross human rights violations, including persecution of Chinese Catholics by the CCP. Then there was that globalist shindig at the Vatican in May. Chelsea Clinton was there. So was Fauci. Deepak Chopra. Oh, and Joe Perry from Aerosmith. All the speakers were pro-abortion and pro-LGBT. At a Vatican-sponsored conference. Can you believe that? If Mother Teresa were still alive, do you think she would have received an invitation? Nor do I.

The New Liturgical Season: Pride Month

 Do you see churchmen as trying to liquidate traditional Christian sexual morality as part of this “Reset”? How are they connected?

Look at all the businesses incorporating the rainbow into their logos for “Pride Month.” The same thing is true with the Vatican globalist conference I mentioned above. They have a rainbow too! How many Christian conservative writers have been called bigots simply for stating what the Bible teaches about homosexuality? How many have been kicked off social media platforms?

As I stated above, the “Great Reset” is a totalitarian movement. “Pride Month” is favorite cause of our new fascists.


The Rise of a New, False Church

 Can you compare the cooperation of liberal Christian leaders with Biden, Western globalists, and Woke Capital with the co-option of the Church in China? Are we seeing the rise of a “Patriotic Church” in the West that’s a limp puppet of Caesar, Mammon, and Sodom?

We are seeing the rise of a false church under Pope Francis. That’s for sure. But the “Patriotic Church” in China is different. It’s an imperfect analogy, but the difference is roughly the difference between and Peter and Judas. The Church in China, like Peter, is succumbing to external pressure. But the apostates in the West, like Judas, willingly abandon Christ. Many of our “shepherds” prefer their own disordered lusts to holy obedience.

Fauci More Authoritative than Jesus?

 In a new edition of your book, Confronting the Pope of Suspicion, you make a bold claim: You say that Pope Francis’ encyclical Amoris Laetitia is the charter for remaking the Church to supplicate itself before the World. Can you explain what you mean specifically?

I would invite anyone to compare paragraphs 3 and 280 in Amoris Laetitia. In paragraph 3, Francis states heretically that the official teaching of the Church (the “magisterium”) is not essential for deciding all doctrinal questions. In par. 280, he says that science is essential for understanding sexual morality. Thus, in the Pope Francis church, what Dr. Fauci says is more important than what Jesus has to say.

The Heresy that Launched a Thousand Pedophiles

 You document in your book that the greatest scandal in Catholic history, the sex abuse crisis, was the direct result of liberal theology taught to priests. Please explain.

Progressive theologians rejected the Bible on the grounds that it was primitive and superstitious. They developed a new moral theology grounded in “science” instead. And in the mid-twentieth century, “science” meant Sigmund Freud. Thus, seminarians were taught not to repress themselves sexually because that was thought to be psychologically harmful. Celibacy was rejected. And homosexuality was celebrated. The enthusiasm for science encouraged all kinds of quackery. One theology textbook cited “research” that purported to show that pedophilia was not harmful to children! So it’s no mystery how we got a sex abuse epidemic in the Church.

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An Ecumenical War Against the “New Gospel”

 Please speak to how Catholics can work with other Christians whose churches are also under attack by the “new gospel” that’s being preached within our walls?

We must address the crisis of faith in society. Pew Research has shown that Christianity is losing the culture war because people are under the false impression that religious faith is incompatible with scientific progress. The new atheists have been spreading this propaganda for years, and so have gay activists.

One way I expose this propaganda in my book is by pointing to the sexual abuse scandal. The heretics of scientism claim to have scientific evidence that undermines Church teaching on sexuality. But take a closer look at their so-called “evidence.” It included fake research that rationalized pedophilia! That’s not science. That’s perverts trying to justify their own wicked proclivities. Scientism caused the sexual abuse scandal. That’s a fact. If we did a better job of explaining this, people would be not so quick to accept unverified propaganda that tries to pass itself off as science.


Jason Jones is a senior contributor to The Stream. He is a film producer, author, activist and human rights worker.

John Zmirak is a senior editor at The Stream, and author or co-author of ten books, including The Politically Incorrect Guide to Immigration and The Politically Incorrect Guide to Catholicism. Together, Jones and Zmirak wrote The Race to Save Our Century.

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