Yes, LGBT Activists Want to Punish Christian Conservatives

Don't take my word for it. I'm simply quoting the foremost LGBT political donor.

Tim Gill speaks in a video published by The GLBT Community Center of Colorado on YouTube in March 2016. Gill was recently described by Rolling Stone magazine as “Megadonor Behind the LGBTQ Rights Movement."

By Michael Brown Published on July 20, 2017

Call me paranoid if you like, but I’m simply quoting what Tim Gill, the foremost LGBT political donor says in his own words. 

“We’re going into the hardest states in the country,” he declares. “We’re going to punish the wicked.” That means Christian conservatives. In short, if you won’t comply with LGBT activism, be it as a minister or as a businessperson, you will be punished. That is Gill’s goal, and to deny it is to be in denial.

Funding the LGBT Lobby

According to Rolling Stone magazine, which interviewed Gill last month, he is the “Megadonor Behind the LGBTQ Rights Movement.” He “turned a $500 million fortune into the nation’s most powerful force for LGBTQ rights.”

His accomplishments are impressive indeed:

Today, Gill’s sprawling network of LGBTQ advocacy groups rivals any big-money operation in the country. The Gill Foundation, which he started in 1994, underwrites academic research, polling, litigation, data analytics and field organizing. Gill Action, a political group launched a decade later, has helped elect hundreds of pro-equality lawmakers at the local, state and federal levels. OutGiving, his donor club, coaches the country’s richest pro-LGBTQ funders on how best to spend their money. Gill’s fingerprints are on nearly every major victory in the march to marriage, from the 2003 Goodridge v. Dept. of Public Healthcase, which made Massachusetts the first state to allow same-sex marriage, to the Supreme Court’s Obergefell v. Hodges decision two decades later that legalized it in all 50. “Without a doubt,” says Mary Bonauto, the attorney who argued the Obergefell case, “we would not be where we are without Tim Gill and the Gill Foundation.”

So, when Tim Gill says he wants to “punish” Christian conservatives who don’t affirm LGBT activism, you can take him at his word.

I know, of course, that for him this is a matter of equality. In his mind, he’s fighting against discriminatory practices and laws. For him, this is a matter of fairness and justice. We who oppose LGBT activism are “wicked” people who should be “punished.” When your worldview is upside down, that’s a logical conclusion.

Those who believe a child should have a mother and father are the KKK. Those who cannot participate in a same-sex “wedding” are Nazis. Those who don’t want a biological boy sharing a locker room with their daughter are transphobic bigots. And obviously, the KKK and Nazis and bigots are wicked people, and wicked people deserve to be punished. Such is the logic of LGBT activism.

We Shouldn’t Be Surprised

I just returned from Ontario, where a child can be taken from his or her parents and raised by others if the parents do not affirm the child’s perceived gender. And throughout Canada, you can be penalized for not using a person’s preferred gender pronoun.

Here in the States, CBN News reports that “California is on its way to passing a new law that makes it illegal to call transgender senior citizens a pronoun they don’t like. For example, if an elderly man who “lives in a long-term care facility wishes to be called ‘her’ or ‘she,’ the workers there had better do it or face the consequences. The proposed law would even apply to Christian facilities.” 

We must be determined to stand up for what is right, regardless of cost or consequence, while still loving our neighbor as ourselves.

But again, none of this should surprise us. Nor should we should not be surprised with the latest LGBT attempts to indoctrinate our children.

That’s why I’ve said for years that those who came out of the closet want to put us in the closet, referring, of course, to LGBT activists. Critics scorned my words more than a decade ago, mocking me as paranoid and crazy. Now, the problem is obvious.

Worth Fighting?

That’s why we must be all the more determined to stand up for what is right, whatever the cost. And we must do this while still loving our neighbors as ourselves. We must be kind and loving to our LGBT co-workers, family member, and friends without celebrating their disordered relationships or affirming their causes. As Christians, this is how we live.

You might say to me, “Who cares about being punished? If gay activists come after us for doing what is right, so be it. Our brothers and sisters in other countries are being slaughtered for their faith, so the least we can do in America is take a righteous stand. Gay activists are hardly beheading us or throwing us to the lions.”

In principle, I agree. I’m quite happy to take a stand, come what may. But what about our kids and grandkids and great-grandkids? What kind of world are we leaving to them?

That’s why we must push back against those who want to punish us for our faith. We should not surrender the liberty of others without a godly fight.

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  • Gary

    This is why I hate lgbtq and their allies. There is nothing good about them. They choose to behave the way they do. They are not victims, or unfortunates. They are devils. They are enemies to be defeated, not people with a problem that “just need Jesus”.

    • Hannah

      It is perfectly within your right and expected of you to take a firm stance against the LGBT brigade; it is detestable to look at the people and make them subhuman. Paul killed Christans before Jesus stopped him on the road. Just as with him, once the blood of Jesus suffuses a person’s soul, it strips him or her of all sin and makes them right in the eyes of God. Every. One. Can. Experience. This. Regardless. Of. Their. Past.

      To live in continuous sin is to not be of God; to acknowledge that you struggle with a particular sin and seek help is expected. We all have fortified areas in our souls (my pastor calls them our “Jerichoes”) that we don’t want others to see or God to interfere with. If you are in commune with God, He will start chiseling away at those. With the LGBT community, they are living in open defiance to God and all He is, just like everyone else who denies God. Just as we would with unbelievers in a secluded tribe hidden away in a corner of the world, we must exhibit patience and firmness; if they openly mock us and hate us, we must pray for them. If they seek to kill us, we must seek God’s wisdom on how to deal with it. If we are to fight back, we will. If we are to let them take our lives, we will. This isn’t first century Israel where we still live under the (modified) Mosaic Law; we are made free in Christ. It’s high time we start acting like it.

      • Gary

        “If we are to fight back, we will.” I would say what I am doing is more like resistance than trying to inflict damage on my enemies. But, I don’t think that will be enough. Inflicting damage will have to happen at some point.

    • Placeboshotgun

      Gary, you are going too far. That is not the life or love of Christ speaking. I understand your outrage, I feel it too when I hear so much news of attacks on Christians and Christianity in this nation. But have we too not sinned and fallen short of the glory of God? We may, and we must defend ourselves but we are not here to conquer or to kill but to spread the word of salvation through Christ that as many as can be saved from this tainted world and the jaws of hell as can be. Hate is not the Spirit given to us, do not let your anger rule you.

      • Gary

        I won’t be able to rely on you in this battle. You would be no good at all on a battlefield.

        • Placeboshotgun

          You’re fighting the wrong war.

  • People who are Straight (i.e. heterosexual) have never had to worry about being denied a job, fired from a job, turned away from a business, kicked out of a rental property, prohibited from using public accommodations of any kind, or denied the right to marry the person they love because of their sexual orientation. It isn’t asking that much that law-abiding, taxpaying LGBT Americans ought not to have to worry about such things, either. If you think working toward that goal is activism that must be opposed, have at it.

    • Gary

      There are lots of people that welcome lgbtq. Do business with them and let people alone who don’t want to do business with you.

      • I don’t care whether churches want to turn away LGBT Christians. I don’t care if you want to stand on a street corner and scream hellfire and damnation against LGBT people until the cows come home.

        But if you own a business for the purpose of turning a profit, you have to abide by prevailing civil rights laws. You don’t get to turn away certain paying customers because of your own racial or religious prejudices.

        • Gary

          Depends on the business. If I own a gas station, I really don’t care who buys gas from me. But if I own a rental house, I don’t want people like you living in it.

          • “people like you”

            That simple phrase speaks volumes.

          • Gary

            Are you getting the message?

          • ‘Tis as clear as the summer sun.

          • Many Sparrows

            @PolishBear:disqus I do not agree with you, but I don’t agree with @disqus_GLH5yIIEtR:disqus either. Please don’t let him be your image of Christians.

            In the words of the ever-prescient Bishop Fulton Sheen, “Tolerance applies only to persons, but never to principles.” In other words, you can love a person — even like him! –, and be compelled to share the truth and disagree with him. Please know that that’s what the well-meaning folks on this thread are trying to do.

        • Peter

          I refer back to the bakers / cake issue.

          No-one was turned away because of their sexuality – the bakers refused to bake the cake because they did not agree with the message on it.

          Everyone knows this but the gaystapo saw the opportunity and they took it.

          Even Peter Tatchell changed his opinion that the bakers had a right to refuse to make the cake because he clearly sees what is happening, as do we all.

          When you force people to comply with your beliefs under threat of penalty or persecution, you are a fascist. (I don’t mean you personally).

          But the tables will turn one day if Islam (the other ideology loved by the leftists) gains any foothold in western society / lawmaking. That day the gaystapo might realize who their real enemy was but by that time it will be too late.

          You reap what you sow (not you personally)

        • CuriousAndy

          If you’re compelling me to do something that violates my truly held religious beliefs than yes, i can deny you. Why doesn’t the LGBT community ever go to muslim bakeries, etc..?

          • If I needed a wedding cake, and the only bakery in my town that specialized in wedding cakes was a Muslim bakery, that’s the first place I would go.

          • CuriousAndy

            Just listen to the words of Tom Gill. They are actively seeking out Christians to destroy them. He is wicked, Christians are not out to destroy lgbt people. I would never bake a cake, perform a wedding or anything that violated my deeply help religious beliefs, whether it’s a homosexual an adulterer, a racist or whatever is forbidden in scripture. The second amendment should apply to protect against any form of discrimination.

          • BWF

            He is wicked, Christians are not out to destroy lgbt people.

            …except for the people on this thread who have suggested that they do (i.e. Gary, who said that he “detests” gay people and allies, and Peter, who conflates gay people with Nazis)

          • Az1seeit

            Um…detesting and calling people names are not synonymous with “out to destroy”. And why… Yes! I AM the word police! Don’t read things in them that aren’t there. Let your ‘yea be yea and your nay be nay.’ See how easy that is? Another common mistake is conflating any opinion different than the “politically correct du jour” one as a phobia. I may not agree with someone, say, but I “ain’t skeered”. I’m perfectly happy for you to think ANYTHING you want…as long as you don’t try to force me to agree with you. It’s like those other meaningful words: “live and let live”. Why not? Is this not still a “free country”? Or have you forgotten the meaning of that word too?

          • Shaquille Harvey

            And yet they too would refuse

          • Beth Van

            So you say.

          • If it’s for a gay wedding, Chuck, you might be disappointed. Do a search on the following article title:
            Video puts Muslim bakeries, florists in gay-rights spotlight

        • Gift Of Life

          Hi Chuck, I think what Gary implied was that there is no such thing as an actively practising gay person involved affairs with one of the same sex, while at the same time being a Christian. Being a Christian alone causes you to leave your sexual and romantic desires for the same sex partner as it is known to be a sin towards God and His intended purpose of creation. Sex is sacred to God and it should only be done between a married man and woman because of the covenant between man and God. And such covenants should never be broken, otherwise it’s considered uncharacteristic of Christ, whom all Christians should aspire to emulate daily.

          Does God give grace to believers when they sin? Sure. Christians confess their sins before God and account to one another, ask for forgiveness, and never again return to the same habits or desires again. Though Jesus paid for our sins with his life, we are still guilty until we acknowledge He is Lord of every area of our lives and submit every action, thought and word to Him. Only then can we be free and claim victory over sin and death because of what Jesus did on the cross.

          Are there people who used to be gay and became Christians but still have their desires and inclinations? Sure they do. It’s a lifestyle that messes up our lives and when we become born again in Christ, His Spirit dwells inside us, making everything that was hidden in darkness come exposed to His light of truth. God isn’t just a God of love but of justice and truth. When we allow God to step into our lives, He’s gonna show us what needs to get right and then He can start repairing and rebuilding our lives, even if it’s from scratch. But if we deliberately limit God in how He can help us by setting boundaries like being a Christian but disallowing God from interfering in the same-sex attraction, then God cannot do much and has to leave. Why? Because of free will. We have the ability to choose to let God come in or chase Him out. We cannot sit on the fence — there are no fence-sitters in the Kingdom of God. God detests such indecisive people but loves them enough to desire they return to Him wholeheartedly, even if it means allowing pain and sorrow to take place. Because God really wants the best for us but most of the time we shut Him out.

          My conclusion: You may not agree on many points but essentially, this is what it means to be a Christian. We will never be perfect but we can be made perfect if we let Him have control. Peace!

        • Beth Van

          Yes, and homosexuals worked very hard for many years to have that “club” to use on Christians. You are actually sounding rather threatening in this particular post. This is why, in return, efforts are being made to pass laws to allow people to act on their beliefs and not have to face ruination if they should refuse service to someone who asks them to do something contrary to their beliefs.

    • Dean Bruckner

      You’ll be supporting concentration camps for Christians within 10 years. The gay activists Im aware of have no sense of proportionality or compassion. They will crush and destroy anyone who disagrees with them, and you’ll be right there, telling Christians being herded into death camps that they deserve it. And you will think they do too.

      • Of course not. Most of my Gay friends are Christians. Enough with the hyperbole.

        • Gary

          Gay Christians = Muslim Christians = Buddhist Christians = Atheist Christians. All are absurd terms.

          • On the contrary, there are countless churches that welcome Gay Christians. You can find listings at gaychurch(dot)org.

          • Gary

            They aren’t Christians. They just say they are.

          • Just as YOU say you are?

          • Gary

            I know what a Christian is. And they are not homosexual, or supporters of homosexuals.

          • Beth Van

            The Catholic church welcomes those who are homosexual who accept the teachings of Jesus and the Church’s doctrine and live accordingly.

          • Gary

            Then they can be Catholics, but they still can’t be Christians.

          • Beth Van

            Whoa. Anti-Catholic rhetoric.

          • Gary

            Yes.

          • Many Sparrows

            I’m with you, @beth_van:disqus. Thank you for representing us Catholic Christians with grace.

          • Beth Van

            Said the proud bigot. God help you.

          • Jim

            The difference is that we are living by the precepts of the Bible to the best of our ability. When we do wrong, we repent and work to correct the situation. What you are proposing is the same as a church affirming murders or thieves as good Christians.

          • BWF

            There’s our No True Scotsman line.

          • Jason Todd

            Shove your NTS. There is no open definition of Christianity, only how it is defined in the Bible.

          • BWF

            And would you be willing to specify this definition, specifically?

          • Jason Todd

            No. Read the Bible, specifically the New Testament, if you want to know.

          • Beth Van

            No one refutes that there are churches that refer to themselves as Christian who not only welcome homosexuals but embrace and encourage the lifestyle.

          • Jim

            Then they are in defiance of the Bible and not Christian. You can call yourself a Honda, but that doesn’t make you a car.

          • Jim Walker

            All churches welcome LGBT. Gay Christian is an Oxymoron.

          • Jim Walker

            hahahaa… thanks for the laugh. I needed that.

        • Bamaman

          Sorry that can’t be true! 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

        • Peter

          What’s more important to them – being gay or being Christian?

          If it’s being Christian, then why aren’t they shouting back at the persecution that is currently taking place?

          • What “persecution,” Peter? Most Americans are Christian. Virtually all religious programming on TV and radio is Christian. And the only religious holiday that causes the private and public sectors to grind to a halt is a Christian holiday. Christians in the United States have historically been treated preferentially.

            I guess this is why a more level playing field feels like “persecution” to some of them.

          • Peter

            When someone loses their business over a lie in order to promote the gay ideology, they are being persecuted.

            How many Christians there are or how many programs there are is irrelevant.

          • Andrew Mason

            Christian or Christian In Name Only? The two things are very very different!!! Consider the recent furor over a ‘reverend’ who claimed that praying for Trump is practically heretical. Given the Bible says love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, as well as homosexuality is an abomination, those who claim it is heresy to obey Scripture have a serious problem!

            As for level playing field – homosexual supremacy is not a level playing field. ISIS imposing Sharia Law on America would be a level playing field, but not a pleasant one.

        • Dean Bruckner

          You are unstable as water, swept here and there by every wind of teaching. Just like the crowds in Jesus’ day:

          About the middle of the feast Jesus went up into the temple and began teaching. The Jews therefore marveled, saying, “How is it that this man has learning,d when he has never studied?” So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. If anyone’s will is to do God’s will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority. The one who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory; but the one who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him there is no falsehood. Has not Moses given you the law? Yet none of you keeps the law. Why do you seek to kill me?”

          The crowd answered, “You have a demon! Who is seeking to kill you?” Jesus answered them, “I did one work, and you all marvel at it. Moses gave you circumcision (not that it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and you circumcise a man on the Sabbath. If on the Sabbath a man receives circumcision, so that the law of Moses may not be broken, are you angry with me because on the Sabbath I made a man’s whole body well? Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”

          Some of the people of Jerusalem therefore said, “Is not this the man whom they seek to kill? And here he is, speaking openly, and they say nothing to him! Can it be that the authorities really know that this is the Christ? But we know where this man comes from, and when the Christ appears, no one will know where he comes from.” So Jesus proclaimed, as he taught in the temple, “You know me, and you know where I come from. But I have not come of my own accord. He who sent me is true, and him you do not know. I know him, for I come from him, and he sent me.” So they were seeking to arrest him, but no one laid a hand on him, because his hour had not yet come. Yet many of the people believed in him. They said, “When the Christ appears, will he do more signs than this man has done?”

          The Pharisees heard the crowd muttering these things about him, and the chief priests and Pharisees sent officers to arrest him.

        • Beth Van

          They are at best “cafeteria christians” who choose those parts of God’s words that they like as the ones they will follow.

          There are many kinds of “cafeteria christians” who want to believe that God is only about mercy and love. He is, but he is also very big on justice and there are hard truths that must be accepted to be faithful to him. While there is a need to be concerned about the here and now, it should not overtake the need to prepare for one of two fates in eternity. Of course, if one doesn’t believe in such things then it only makes sense that the focus would be only on the here and now. That is so very sad to me. There is so much more beyond this short lifetime that we should be preparing for.

        • Beth Van

          I need to add that there is a very long history of martyrs in Christianity who have suffered and died for their faith, even now, particularly in the middle east and Africa. There has been a definite uptick in the attacks on Christianity in various forms over the years. There is no reason to think that it will not grow and become more violent towards those who will not deny their faith. I don’t claim to know the timeline and the exact extent, but based on current trends, it could eventually happen again.

        • Jim

          Sorry, but you cannot be a Christian and be a practicing homosexual. Paul covered that at least 3 different times.

    • Ever been homeless, living and sleeping out on the streets? If you had you’d either not be spouting such hateful nonsensical gibberish, or you’d become Christian, because, largely, that’s who’s living out on the streets these days.

    • Beth Van

      You are on a Catholic website. It isn’t a matter of what we “think or feel” but rather what God has taught about active homosexuality. That DOES NOT mean that Catholics think homosexuals should not be allowed to make a living, live where they wish, use public accommodations as intended, etc. We do not support homosexual “marriage” or the acts of homosexuality. To us being actively homosexual is a sin. That is the truth. You are most likely right that heterosexuals have not faced the challenges you mentioned because of their sexual orientation, but please don’t attempt to claim that they have not faced those challenges for other reasons. Society has gone from being asked to “tolerate” homosexuality, to “accepting” it, to being pushed to accept and promote it as a normal behavior.It just doesn’t make sense in relation to God’s creation of human beings, i.e., he created them male and female. And now Christians are to be punished for their faith. Of course, I do find it odd that not all faiths that have beliefs contrary to those of most of secular society in regards to homosexuality, such as Muslims, are being targeted.

      • One of my friends here in Charleston, West Virginia, owns a restaurant called the Cold Spot. It specializes in wings, sandwiches, salads, and so forth. Bill and I have known each other for some 20 years, and I suspect that if I wanted him to cater my wedding, he would be absolutely delighted to do so.

        • Shaquille Harvey

          1. Are you straight ?
          2. How deep is his Muslim faith ?

          • Jim Walker

            1. crooked
            2. ankle deep not able to get baptized.
            hahaha joke.

        • Bryan

          Chuck, don’t want to pile on what has already become an unruly mess. Just asking a question: Would Bill have a problem catering an event with pulled pork barbecue sandwiches or BLT’s along with wings, other sandwiches, and salads, etc.?
          I don’t know what he serves other than the generic fare you’ve said. Sounds like a decent enough place to try whenever I next get a chance to visit some extended in-laws that live out that direction.

          • Bill is free to sell whatever products he likes. Muslim restaurant owners are no more obligated to serve pork than Mexican restaurants are obligated to serve sushi.

          • Bryan

            Agreed. He could also say no he didn’t want to cater an event for you and it would generally be considered ok to do so. For example, maybe your hypothetical event is during a High Holy time. Or the event is something he as a Muslim finds either offensive or against his beliefs, say a Occult Ritual. These reasons have everything to do with his beliefs and his business and the type of event or the timing of the event and nothing to do with the person making the request.
            If he is justified in these decisions, then, so too, is a Christian restaurant owner in a decision to not cater an event at a gay couple’s wedding because of his deeply held beliefs that homosexuality is wrong.
            If the restaurant owner kicked the same couple from his restaurant and refused to serve them at all, eg they show up at lunchtime for some sandwiches, wings, and sodas, and he wouldn’t let them on the premises and called them names, insulted them and their families, etc., that would be unjustified, not to mention un-called for, and he should be justly punished for discrimination.
            Now, how did we get down this tangent from the original article? By the way, it looks like a good place to eat. Will definitely stop in the next time we’re out that way.

        • Jason Todd

          Good for him. And lucky for you, he doesn’t follow the Quran.

      • Az1seeit

        The Stream is not a just a Catholic website…just FYI

        • Beth Van

          My bad. I knew that but typed the other.

          • Andrew Mason

            In this context we can probably use catholic in the Christian rather than the RC sense 🙂

    • Tex Taylor

      YAWN…moral relativism and rank propaganda. I don’t call people like you the Gaystapo for nothing. You’re the type that gives the nod of approval for lesbian mayors walking into churches demanding the script.

      If you think “equal rights” are all the LGBTQXYZ are asking for, you need to get your head out of the sand and see what’s being taught in the schools to young minds of mush.

      Frankly, I find people like you so duplicitous and tacitly wicked, I realize that we Christians had better start fighting fire with fire against the militant mentally ill. Too many of these jackbooted pals of yours have made it personal. Christians need to learn to make it personal in return.

      And we will have at it.

      • Jason Todd

        The biggest difference between Christians and Muslims is Christians don’t kill homosexuals, nor do we advocate such a thing.

        But if we ever changed our minds…

        …run.

        • Tex Taylor

          🙂 With respect to human rights. But I would say the biggest difference between the two “religions” is the antithetical difference between whom we worship.

      • John Connor

        Empty threats from the keyboard warrior. These people deserve every right that you and I have. They’re getting there but there is still work to do. Stop with the oppressive christoban tactics. You can’t win this……

    • Az1seeit

      It is asking too much when you demand someone go against their conscience.

    • Paul

      Not quite true, you should have seen the boss’s daughter but going there would most certainly have put my job in jeopardy. Also there are places with prohibitions on office romances as well. And I once rented a room in a house that stipulated no female companionship.

    • Jim Walker

      Those who reject them are Christians? My answer is No. but why did they chose Christian as their target ? Why can’t they chose atheists ?

    • Getreal

      Sounds like a play straight out the playbook “After The Ball” by Madsen and Kirk–always play the victim and always make those who oppose you look like the victimizers. We are way past so-called “equal” rights for LGBT and have long since ventured into the territory of special privileges. After all, same-sex marriage never really about gays wanting traditional marriage. Rather it was about legitimizing a lifestyle and legislating acceptance. Besides, it is no longer the LGBT being discriminated against, it is those who dare voice simple disagreement who are getting their bakery’s closed, and flower shops boycotted.

    • Andrew Mason

      The problem is straight is a homosexual concept. Not everyone operates according to that system.

  • JP

    Good article. Christians need to wake up to this threat and stop trying to accommodate these people.

    • Let me ask you something. In my town there are a few dozen businesses that specialize in wedding services (cakes, flowers, catering, etc), and to the best of my knowledge none of them have turned away Gay couples who are planning a wedding. And I would suspect that the vast majority of these businesses are run by Christians. This is West Virginia, after all.

      So my question is this: If a Christian-run bakery is perfectly comfortable making wedding cakes for Gay couples, is that a sin?

      • Beth Van

        There are many levels of believers. It is ultimately between them and God. Maybe you should ask a priest. Maybe their compliance has more to do with being afraid that if they do not go along with a request to make a cake for homosexual couples they will be subjected to litigation and perhaps financial ruin. Its happened several times already to others. Perhaps at worse it is cowardice and a lack of depth in their faith, Again, there are many levels of believers.

      • m-nj

        I agree with Beth’s answer … they will answer to God for their actiions, and i woudl hope their spiritual leaders would be speaking the truth to them, specifically

        Eph 5: 3But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. 4Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. 5For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7Therefore do not become partners with them; 8for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light 9(for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), 10and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord.

        11Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. 12For it is shameful even to speak of the things that they do in secret.

      • Getreal

        My question for you is when is the LGBT really going to get the courage of its convictions and insist a Muslim bakery make a gay wedding cake????????????

  • Eulene Garland

    This man works for satan ….

    • Dean Bruckner

      Yes, Chuck does, but apparently without realizing it.

  • Tex Taylor

    There are some homosexuals I’ve met that are willing to live and let live – they’re generally older and wiser.

    This new age of homosexuals is quite different: arrogant, completely amoral, militant in argument, hate filled with rage. Christians had better learn to toughen up and quit quaking in their boots about being called homophobic and the like.

    I laugh at the term “phobic.” So what? I tell them there is nothing that frightens me about homosexuals. There’s much about homosexuals I find innately repulsive.

    Most people if they are honest do.

    • Gay people never told Straight people that THEY shouldn’t be allowed to marry, or that THEY should be discriminated against.

      • Hildabeast

        God defined marriage for all, porky. You defy Him at your own peril. What you call “Christian discrimination”, unless it involves physical force/coercion/threats, it is only done solely out of benefit to the homosexual, or rather, any unrepentant sinner(s) who do not know what awaits them once their earthly life is over – God’s judgment and eternal hell torture for being unable to pay the fine for transgressing against a holy God.

        It does not have to be that way. Jesus’ blood is enough for all sinners who repent.

        • David Cohen

          Actually, the secular laws of he USA define marriage, seeing as how marriage is a legal institution. If you want to include deities in the process, that is a private decision, not one that is binding on anyone else.

          • Hildabeast

            Yes… and we can also pass laws that say Jewish labor is free. Oh wait, someone already did that 70+ years ago.

            Or blacks are less than human…

            Or that unborn children aren’t children therefore killing them is legal…

            When we take the place of God, anything is possible.

          • David Cohen

            Laws which discriminated against Jews and non-White people were avidly defended with Biblical quotes. As there were certainly children and pregnant women who were slaughtered in the God approved massacres in the Book of Joshua, it stands to reason that a Biblical case could be made that God is indifferent to the slaughter of children. Passing laws merely because “God says so” is clearly a very tricky prospect. That is why our Founding Fathers were wise to exclude theology from the legislative process.

          • Hildabeast

            Sorry David, your reasoning and theology is extremely faulty and weak – you suppose that God needs to give justification to you for what He does, up to and including the slaughter of children and women. You are referring to the slaughter of the Canaanites who were in a land given to Israelites and who also were about as depraved in their actions as you are in your thought processes about God. What happened was God’s will in response of their clear transgression of His command to stay away from the land they inhabited… God is sovereign. We aren’t.

            Go over to “Reasonable Faith”, Dr Craig has had numerous defenses of the slaughter of the Canaanites, it’s boring to see people latch on things out of context as you’re doing now.

            The founding fathers based the entire notion of secularism BECAUSE of their profound faith in God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost, not DESPITE it. No one who is from the West can declare they are fully “non-Christian” – Christianity and following Jesus’ behavior is what enables and gives rise to secularism, which is just another way of saying, we can tolerate you violating all of God’s 10 Commandments except:

            Thou shalt not kill
            Thou shalt not steal
            Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour

            Which oh, “coincidentally” are enshrined in our laws… since the dawn of the USA.

            The other Commandments:

            I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage
            Thou shalt have no other gods before me
            Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image
            Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain
            Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy
            Honour thy father and thy mother
            Thou shalt not commit adultery
            Thou shalt not covet neighbour’s servants, animals, or anything else

            Well, according to your super shallow, out of context theology…. don’t really matter, so we can safely ignore them because it’s ok if people worship sex/fornication/porn, money, drugs, fame, and a plethora of other..ya know, LEGAL things which lead to destruction.

            I can’t believe the kind of thoughtless answers you are giving here…. Cohen? You should be ashamed of yourself if you are Jewish.

          • David Cohen

            “Sorry David, your reasoning and theology is extremely faulty and weak”
            – ALL theological reasoning is weak and faulty. Even a casual review of history reveals that the Bible ‘says’ whatever the reader wants it to say. Thus it has been used for a variety of purposes, both noble and lamentable. And thus it can be ignored when a secular government like that of the USA makes laws.

            “The founding fathers formulated the entire notion of secularism BECAUSE of their profound faith in God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost, not DESPITE it.”
            – Actually, the idea of a secular nation was drawn from French Humanistic philosophy. The idea was considered rather shocking by conservatives of the day, who could not imagine a nation not having an official religion. Your reaction suggests that at least some conservatives are still perplexed by the notion.

            The moral laws you mentioned are essentially universal. They have existed in societies for has long as there have been societies, including ones where the Bible was unknown. There is nothing especially holy about them.

            As for the commandments which are distinctly religious in nature, what precisely do they have to do with the laws of the USA? Do you wan the government to tell you which deity to worship, how and when? Do you want the government to meddle in your marital affairs? How would the state practically enforce laws regarding honoring one’s parents and coveting?

            I leave the existence of deities to those who are concerned with such issues. My concern is when religious people feel that they can pass laws restricting their neighbors for no other reason than “my deity says so!” I would argue against that premise whether the proponent identifies as Jewish, Christian, Muslim or otherwise

          • Hildabeast

            I don’t RESTRICT anyone from doing anything, including direct violations of the commandments you despise and pretend do not exist. Your hatred of God is palatable. For a Jew, I am surprised how you got to that sorry state of hiding behind man made laws in an attempt to avoid responsibility to your creator….

            “I leave the existence of deities” – what kind of arrogant talk is that, and what is it due to? You as well as anyone else knows God exists despite our BEST denials and self-rationalizations. You should be ashamed of yourself David.

            Restricting would be me pointing a gun at you and telling you what to do – NO Jew or Christian does that. Muslims do – regularly, it’s in fact codified in the Quran.

            The way I go about resisting is by non-cooperation – voting, speaking out and more importantly by giving people a better choice – pointing them to the Savior, Jesus Christ.

            “Essentially universal” actually gives credence to God. Now I can see in your blind arrogance you are betting that the God of the Bible is not the one true God. That dilemma you’ll have to work out on your own. The point is, there ARE absolute, objective moral laws that are applicable to EVERYONE, and despite your vehement, baseless and futile objections to the contrary, they are in fact ALL Judeo-Christian in principle… Jesus is basically the living proof of ALL that is, can be said or has been said or will be said of God’s moral laws.

            I don’t even know why you continue to persist on this “I am God” trip…. I can tell you right now – it only ends one way – in your peril.

            Shape up Cohen. You’re the lost sheep and you’re lucky you’re at least among people who believe despite this whiny arrogance you have about you… Maybe God will let you see Who Truth is.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            “Actually, the idea of a secular nation was drawn from French Humanistic philosophy. The idea was considered rather shocking by conservatives of the day, who could not imagine a nation not having an official religion. Your reaction suggests that at least some conservatives are still perplexed by the notion.”
            Sort of, the view was more idealised in France especially during the French Revolution, which differed completely in how that shaped the nation and later compared to the USA and the American revolution. If you wish to acknowledge true secularism or nations that have been or become secular then perhaps you should look at those that have followed the model of socialism and communism, due to the fact that it is entirely non religious at the centre and deems to remove (religion) from society.

            “The moral laws you mentioned are essentially universal. They have existed in societies for has long as there have been societies, including ones where the Bible was unknown. There is nothing especially holy about them.”
            I would question that however, I would say that people have argued that there is or has been objective or absolute morality. That they defined was rooted into the universe and life and has the basis for understanding what is objectively wrong and right called nature law, that is was transcended. However it the people would argue that it was very much divine in nature.

            “As for the commandments which are distinctly religious in nature, what precisely do they have to do with the laws of the USA? Do you wan the government to tell you which deity to worship, how and when?”
            No that’s why we have freedom of religion, that is protected.
            I would also state that many conservative Christians like conservatives want limited government not more, and would argue against a theocracy. There are some who would argue for one however I would argue against them. Most Christians want the nation to be able to base itself on right morals and principles that’s where the concern comes in.

            “Do you want the government to meddle in your marital affairs? How would the state practically enforce laws regarding honoring one’s parents and coveting?”
            No, many conservatives especially Christians etc. Want government to get out of marriage and so on all together as that is not their job.

          • Beth Van

            read the new testament for a change. Jesus was very clear.

          • David Cohen

            So the Old Testament is only relevant when it supports your opinion then?

            And saying that the New testament is “very clear” is incredibly naive. Are works involved in salvation? Catholics say yes, Protestants say no, and both sides have verses they can point to as evidence. Does free will play a part in salvation? Armenians says yes, Calvinists say no, and both sides have verses they can point to as evidence. If one is saved can one backslide and lose their salvation? Lutherans say yes, the Reformed Tradition says no, and yet again both sides have verses which they can point to as evidence. Are infant baptisms valid? Some say there is nothing in the Bible which says no, others point out that there is no clear statement saying yes.

            I expect that your immediate response is to give your answers to these questions, cite supporting verses, and insist that your opinions and your favorite verses constitute “true Christianity.” Rarely has the phrase “that’s what they all say” been more valid a response than it would be in such a case.

          • Beth Van

            It’s a progression. God was teaching his children. Jesus was the fulfillment of God’s promise to free us from our sins. Jesus spoke forthrightly. You are a relativist who obviously has never studied and doesn’t intend to learn about the different religions that you think are all the same because you are comfortable in your opinion based on ignorance. So be it.

            I expect that your immediate response will be be negative and argumentative

          • David Cohen

            You avoided the point. That is being negative or argumentative. It is simply stating a fact.

            It seems odd that you imagine yourself so much more educated than I am, and yet the only way you can deal with very real issues in your faith is to avoid them.

          • Beth Van

            And there you go…..

          • David Cohen

            So much for the truth setting you free

        • John Connor

          Nope. Our laws define marriage. No supernatural beings necessary.

          • Hildabeast

            Nope. God does. But it takes a thinking human being to get that.

          • John Connor

            It takes a thinking human to believe in the supernatural? That only takes the mind of a child. No gods needed for marriage.

          • Hildabeast

            And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

            In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…

            Without God, you are right. We get to define anything.

            hit up reasonablefaith dor or slash a-christian-perspective-on-homosexuality… It goes into how you become your own God.

          • John Connor

            I don’t worship anyone or anything. No need.

          • Hildabeast

            you do. I could tell you what it or who is, if I knew your acts in a span of 24 hours without you being aware… I’ll tell you who your false god is, it’s pretty easy actually.

          • John Connor

            LOL! My usual day includes leaving work after a 14 hr shift, going home to see my wife and kids, working on our horse ranch, then back to work.

          • Hildabeast

            Good for you bro. Ever told a lie or lusted after someone who isn’t your spouse? You’ve transgressed … and can’t really atone for it. As to why you may choose to believe otherwise… well maybe there’s something you’re still holding on to… resentment, unconfessed things… beats me, the details I can’t know, but it always without exception ends up the same…. It’s just that this is a very poor forum to disclose these things. I’m glad you’re here though.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            What laws are you referring to ?Marriage that was defined as in the union between one man and one women existed long before the US though.

      • Gary

        Homosexuals have always been allowed to marry. The same rules that applied to me applied to them.

        • David Cohen

          So you would be okay if your daughter married a gay man then, right?

          • Gary

            No. I would not want my daughter to marry a homosexual.

          • David Cohen

            It used to be that gay people sometimes married straight people. Some thought this would ‘cure’ them of being gay. Some did it to hide the fact that they were gay from the public. Some did it because they thought it was the only option if they wanted a stable family life.

            The result of gay people marrying straight people though was NOT cures, respectability or stability. The result was loveless marriages peppered with deceit, self-loathing and frustration. By your own admission you would not want your daughter (or son I assume) to be in such a relationship. I would not want that for my child either.

            This is one reason why acknowledging same sex marriages make sense. A same sex marriage is honest and it offers a degree of stability which married life can bring. It is a win-win situation for society all around.

          • Gary

            Are they incapable of being honest? Can a male homosexual not marry a female homosexual? Can a homosexual find a heterosexual of the opposite sex who will agree to marry them? I don’t care if homosexuals are happy or in stable relationships. Two men cannot marry each other. A marriage requires a husband and a wife which is only possible if a man marries a woman. Same sex marriage is an absurdity.

          • David Cohen

            “Are they incapable of being honest?”
            – Gay people want to marry people of the same sex specifically because they desire honesty in a relationship.

            “Can a male homosexual not marry a
            female homosexual?”
            – Prior to the Obergefell decision, some did. Those too were unsatisfying relationships

            “Can a homosexual find a heterosexual of the
            opposite sex who will agree to marry them?”
            – I suppose so, but again that is unlikely to be a satisfying relationship.

            “I don’t care if
            homosexuals are happy or in stable relationships.”
            – Well, you know what they say abut opinions

            “Two men cannot marry
            each other. A marriage requires a husband and a wife which is only
            possible if a man marries a woman.”
            – Apparently that opinion cannot be supported by a valid legal argument.

            “Same sex marriage is an absurdity.”
            – If you feel that way, you are free to marry someone of the opposite sex. Problem solved, thank you for playing.

          • Gary

            Millions of us are NEVER going to accept ssm as being in any way valid. Not even legally. And we are going to oppose judges and politicians who support ssm.

          • David Cohen

            That s fine. Just make sure you have a valid legal argument when you do.

          • Gary

            There was no valid legal argument when the Supreme Court legalized ssm. They just did it because five judges wanted to, not because the law required it.

          • David Cohen

            The question before the courts was this: is there a legally valid argument to explain why the state should not recognize the legal contract of marriage between two consenting adults for no other reason than the sex of the participants? Five supreme court judges acknowledged that neither “same-sex marriage makes me uncomfortable” nor “same sex marriage makes my deity uncomfortable” are valid legal arguments.

          • Gary

            The job of the court was to determine if existing marriage laws violated the Constitution. The five judges claimed the US Constitution required ssm to be legal. They were lying. The Constitution says nothing about marriage.

          • David Cohen

            The purpose of the Constitution is NOT to spell out what the citizens can do. Its purpose is to curb the excesses of government to prevent arbitrary and unjust laws from being imposed on the citizenry. The laws against same sex marriage were the epitome of arbitrary and unjust, as noted by the two essential arguments given in their favor, i.e. “same-sex marriage makes me uncomfortable” and “same sex marriage makes my deity uncomfortable

            As for you opinion on the ruling,it has been noted

          • Gary

            The US Constitution says nothing about what the government should, or should not do about marriage. But the five judges who voted to legalize ssm claimed the Constitution REQUIRED ssm to be legal. It does no such thing. The five judges were lying. Limiting marriage to one man and one woman is no more arbitrary than any other arrangement. And it is not unjust. The Constitution only requires that laws apply to everyone equally, and the marriage laws did that. There was no violation of the Constitution when marriage was heterosexual only. The five judges just didn’t like it, and that’s why they voted to change it.

          • Tex Taylor

            Who ordained five Supreme Court Justices the power to become America’s moral conscience, as Antonin Scalia correctly pointed out, David? I would ask you in return why after more than 200 years, the euphemism “same sex” marriage was looked at as a perversion.

            A majority of SCOTUS once found black men to be 3/5 citizen. Surely something with a surname from the Levitical priests would recognize the weakness of five individuals being allowed to dictate moral law.

            If not, you certainly have forgotten the lessons your ancestors learned the hard way as they watched half of their demographic murdered in the name of the 3rd Reich, all legal according to German law – the rule of government.

            I think men like you are incredibly foolish, even dangerous. You stand on sand, not recognizing the slippery slope of a civilization far removed from its roots. You don’t have to go further than your front door now to see the rot seeping in to America. The hate of Christianity coarses through your veins.

            It’s transparent. Christian bigotry courses through your veins. I can be a fervent supporter of Israel and still recognize the true biggest enemies to Christians in America are liberal, secular Jews such as yourself.

          • Tex Taylor

            We most certainly do from a theological perspective if that is what derives your sense of morality…obviously, you believe there is no God to be held accountable. So if you believe there is no God, you can justify anything with judicial fiat. Anything. It’s the sordid history of mankind and every diabolic sense of government, from Sumeria, to Babylon, to Rome, to North Korea.

            Our founders certainly thought legality came from a Creator because of whom endowed our rights –
            those which cannot be taken away, legality is simply what corrupted courts say they are.

            Frankly, I believe it is you militant secularists than stand on truly flimsy ground, because you have to absolutely, positively ignore natural law. Simple biological anatomy should make that more than obvious.

            Perhaps more importantly, you have to completely ignore moral law – that which invariably leads to the collapse of civilization. When you demand Caesar become America’s moral conscience, America is obviously following in the footsteps of Rome and Greece.

            This is why I have instructed Christians they must begin to separate themselves from men like you, David. It’s imperative that we separate this alliance and go our own ways, leaving you to your own.

            Christians owe you nothing but to live in peace. You in turn, should leave us to live our lives accordingly.

          • John Connor

            Who have you instructed? LMAO! Fewer and fewer are following your particular type of rhetoric. Nobody is keeping you from living in peace except yourselves.

          • Tex Taylor

            Why does fewer and fewer have any bearing on the issue, Chelsea Manning? ** GUFFAW **

            I notice the “fewer” who are following my type of rhetoric, the worse the country looks too. I know you think you’re incredibly deep, Rambo, but I do absolutely cede to you more and more snowflakes are adopting your line of thinking – it’s called imbecile.

            And when you look around at the country, you recognize how truly blessed you were that you and your wife were able to afford to shelter your children from men like John “Chelsea” Manning and his faux Christian nag – and the results demonstrate it was the best investment you ever made – a gift from God to shelter from the amoral, the twisted, the Leftist deluded, and covetous, the perverted….

            Hey Caligula, it’s all yours, “John.” LOL

          • John Connor

            You make me laugh! Are you 10 or 11 yrs old?

          • Jason Todd

            Are they incapable of being honest?

            Sometimes they are, as in this case. But for the most part, they are not.

      • Tex Taylor

        Your argument is not with followers of Christ, but Christ alone. You were not asking for equal rights. You were asking for a redefinition of marriage. You don’t rate as much to define marriage. You have a form of religion but no power thereof.

        There will come a day you get to find that out and your arrogance will disappear in a flash.

        • John Connor

          Nope. They were asking for the same rights as you and I. How has your marriage or anybody else’s marriage been affected by gays being able to marry? Mine hasn’t been affected in the least.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            What rights are they lacking ?

          • Tex Taylor

            Wrong. There’s no argument about whether a single man can marry a single woman of age. These Gaystapo folk have exactly the same rights as heterosexuals do.

            You’re conflating rights with wants. Like I said, for 230 years, this wasn’t a “Constitutional” issue as you like to pose it – that’s a ruse of legalism. You’re a secular bigot with a bent about Christians, of whom your feckless ilk holds in contempt. Have no fear, millions of us are getting that way about you too.

            God didn’t call you stiffnecked for nothing. Jew in Name Only.

          • John Connor

            Straight white male here. …. They have the same rights now.

          • Tex Taylor

            Believe as you must…but if your wife believes as you, and she married someone as sanctimonious as you questioning her rationale, I can assure you she’s no Christian, bigot.

            No matter how hard you try to rule by judicial fiat, there won’t be a thing you can do when we Christians have finally had enough of your feckless ilk and tell you and your judges we don’t recognize your authority. And that day is coming.

            What are you going to do about it then, big guy? {snicker} Me, I’m simply going to point ISIS to your house where you and your “christian” wife can negotiate whether you lose your head or crawl to Mecca.

            I’ll await the victor on the other side. Bet some worm like you thinks I’m kidding. Just wait, Mr. Constitution. Buwahahahahaha…and remember you were told.

          • John Connor

            It’s funny that you think I’m worried about isis. I spent a 8 month deployment fighting against them. You’re just another arm chair warrior with a keyboard….. LOL!

          • Tex Taylor

            Baloney. If you did serve, you were peeling potatoes, worm. And I don’t even believe some smarmy twist like you would serve. Delusions of grandeur…Rambo.

          • John Connor

            Too funny! I don’t give a hoot whether you believe me or not. Definitely not losing any sleep over it. 1/159th AVN RGMT. FT BRAGG. Yourself???

          • Tex Taylor

            Not qualified for higher education, hey potato peeler? {snicker} Yeah, you’re a real American hero, bigot. You don’t know enough to realize just how lost you really are, Rambo.

            Or is it Bowe Bergdahl? See you around, lowlife.

          • John Connor

            Hi sweetheart! I have a master’s from UPenn. Keep trying and failing…..

          • Shaquille Harvey

            In what may I ask ?

          • Tex Taylor

            Womyn’s Studies – the stuff of barista. You really are a legend in your own mind, aren’t you, Chelsea Manning?

          • John Connor

            Insults are symptomatic of a larger problem, the inability to form a cogent argument.

          • Tex Taylor

            I know baristas of low esteem like to imagine themselves as something truly large, but in you’re case, insults are emblematic of you being a Leftist clown and punk on the dunk tank and the balls are free, Rambo. 😉

          • John Connor

            LMAO!

          • Beth Van

            A patriot AND an intellectual! This just gets deeper and deeper. Let me put on taller boots….

          • Beth Van

            Anyone can look things up on the internet.

          • John Connor

            Sure they can

          • Beth Van

            Hahahaha!!! What a coincidence that you just happened to have served and fought Isis. Not buying it.

          • John Connor

            Don’t care. Spent an 8 month deployment in theME. YOURSELF?

          • Beth Van

            I didn’t make any claim so I don’t owe any type of explanation or proof.

          • John Connor

            Nor do I owe you anything. I’ve served my country with honor….yourself???

          • Beth Van

            I wrote it before and I’ll do it again. God bless you and bring you to his truth and love.

          • Beth Van

            ONE supreme court justice assumed the power to change what marriage is. The threat against Christians is real and dangerous. We will continue to speak Gods truth about his mercy and love as well as his JUSTICE. Hard truths that must be told too.

          • Beth Van

            It seeps through and further assaults society. These are not the days of “what you do in your bedroom is your personal business”. It has become public and radical as well as aggressive and vengeful against those who do not fully support perversion. That a homosexual ” marrixualage” is valid is a lie and attempts to drown out God’s creation. He made them male and female and sexual obsession and per

          • John Connor

            I think that you are the one who has bought the lies. Their marriages are just as valid as mine. They are our fellow man and have ALL the same rights. Your support and/or endorsements are neither needed nor wanted. You all are the ones denying service, denying the right to marry, denying the fight to adopt, etc, etc. look in the mirror and you’ll see who bought the lies.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            Yes but;
            1. What rights? What are these rights ?
            2. When did marriage become a right ?
            3. The right to marry if correct was always the union of one man and one women.

  • m-nj

    To the one who says, “Who cares about being punished?”… As citizens of this democratic republic, we chrisitan citizens still have the right to influence laws and policies, and christianity proper is not illegal. Until such time as those rights are taken away (and I fear they will be, sooner or later), we have the right to oppose all unrighteous, ungodly, and wicked laws, policies, and regulations… of course knowing that God told us already that things WOULD go from bad to worse… its all part of the His sovereign plan.

  • Patmos

    It’s that selfishness and pride, the spirit of which also infected Sodom and Gomorrah. Thing is back then they did not have the good news of the Gospel. It’s why Jesus said that even Sodom and Gomorrah would rise up against this wicked generation and condemn it.

    God had made it ridiculously easy to be welcomed into his goodwill, into the wisdom and power of Christ, but these people continue to choose themselves and their lust.

    Light has come into the world, but some people love darkness more than the light.

    • Tex Taylor

      Chuck Anziulewicz provides the perfect caricature of what ails too much of the homosexual community with regard to their arguments. Though the political issues are complex, most of these ‘gay’ militants have a form of religiosity and it simple to define.

      These homosexuals have made “god” in their own image.

  • Tex Taylor

    I would like to ask Chuck Anziulewicz, all over this board in retort, an honest question.

    You won’t mind if all of us traditional Christians you’ve referred to with vile names, criticism, and mockery probably your entire adult life just sit this one out with ISIS arrives, will you? I personally believe you’ve successful severed this alliance of birth with your inflamed rhetoric over the years and made it perfectly clear you have no use for devout Christians. You’ve been treating as enemy for my entire adult life.

    Are you going to have a problem when Sharia arrives to throw you from the roof and we turn to the ballgame? If these Muslim buddies of yours are such loving friends, so tolerant and righteous, maybe you ought to shackle yourselves to their mindset?

    I’ve got a suggestion for your friends hiding behind their friendly black priestly robes, ruling by judicial fiat. Why don’t we really build a wall of separation between us? And you can have it any way you wish – as long as you leave practicing Christians alone, and most importantly their children alone, to live their lives as they see fit.

    You militant homosexuals I’ve often noted preach a really great game of tolerance and choice, as long as you get to define tolerant and choice doesn’t count when it comes to public schools.

    • We’ll be fighting ISIS alongside YOU, if it come to that. Remember, ISIS isn’t that fond of Christians.

      • Tex Taylor

        No, you won’t – because I for one am not going to be offering my help to you. It’s time you militant gay activists get a real good look at what you’ve falsely accused Christianity of for several decades.

        A true theocracy. Good luck. You’re going to need it.

        • John Connor

          No worries as they will have help from their fellow Americans.

          • Tex Taylor

            Just not near as many as you and Chuck might like to believe…you and your ilk have made it perfectly clear you hate us. So there will be no need for millions of our help.

            Good luck. I’ll be tuning to the golf tournament as thanks for your years of abhorrent behavior and bigotry.

          • John Connor

            I have no hate for christians. My wife is a christian. I have issue with ridiculous statements about hate for LGBT people and so called civil war between them and pseudo christians. Laughable.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            What pseudo Christians are you referring to ?

          • Tex Taylor

            Not nearly as risible as your wife being Christian. ** GUFFAW ** To a militant bigot and fan of the Gaystapo like you?

            Then she’s a fool and miserable. If she were smart, she would hit the road and never look back. You’re worse than the angry – you’re a snake in the grass.

          • John Connor

            LOL! Love to throw the bigot moniker around eh? Hate to break it to you but we are incredibly happy and married for 18+ years. I think you’re the snake in the grass.

          • Tex Taylor

            Then your wife is as duplicitous as you are…

          • John Connor

            How sweet of you to say.

      • Andrew Mason

        Why should we fight ISIS? Homofascists are at least as anti-Christian as ISIS, and they’re a more immediate threat.

    • Jim Walker

      Chuck dare not insult Beheaders.

    • friendlylittlefinger

      It’s not ISIS we have to worry about. The secular Left is far worse and encroaching far far more.

  • Hildabeast

    Any shred of doubt as to whether we are in the end times is being removed daily.. I am wondering if I will actually witness open violence against Christians in the USA on a mass scale. Tribulation is at hand.

    • Well don’t worry, you’ll be raptured up to Heaven where you don’t have to worry about such things.

      • Hildabeast

        that depends on whether one sees it as pre or post trib rapture. Since you clearly believe there is no God, for you it will depend if you can spare a weight scale from breaking each time you step on it, fat boy.

        Remind me why you reply here since you know there is no God?

        You look like a degenerate… sound like one… and you are here to tell us there is no God… trifecta

        • Kevin Quillen

          “You look like a degenerate… sound like one”
          You sound just like Jesus. NOT!
          by the way, the rapture is a silly man made theology. Look up J N Darby and the Plymouth Brethern.

    • John Connor

      You must be joking?

      • Hildabeast

        According to you only.

        • John Connor

          Nah there’s plenty who find your rhetoric and histrionics laughable.

          • Hildabeast

            Actually there’s far more than plenty who find your delusion not only laughable but a permanent factor in the unworkability of your own life… job, relationships, achievements so on and so forth. Glad you’re here.

          • John Connor

            LMAO! My career and marriage have spanned two decades. Keep those sweet christian sentiments coming.

          • Hildabeast

            sure it has. my parents has spanned twice that and some… as long as there’s an occasional hooker in the picture or a mistress, it’s all good, it will last till death.

            but like any other self professed “atheist”, what you disclose here and what the reality of the situation is… are like night and day.

          • John Connor

            LOL! Pretty sad that you think like that…. So atheists are incapable of marriage and career? Like most professing “christians” on this site , you know very little.

          • Hildabeast

            I didn’t say they are incapable . They merely can’t get saved. That’s all. And many have crappy lives. Maybe you’re one of the lucky ones who has it all together.. with your self invented moral code.

          • John Connor

            No gods needed to have a moral code.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            Where then as an atheist do find the basis for objective morality may I ask ?

          • friendlylittlefinger

            And the room went silent. He gets it from his own personally touchy feelie subjective insides.

          • Beth Van

            Where do you think the “moral code” comes from? Ever heard of the Ten Commandments? By the way, Its God, not gods.

          • John Connor

            There are multiple gods worshipped. Yours isn’t anymore special or real than the others.

          • Beth Van

            Not only are you arrogant, but ignorant, too. Relativist.

          • Hildabeast

            Try not to focus on the details…more on the ontology of what I’m saying. I’m not pointing out details about your life – merely that a certain way of being arises when one becomes his or her own god versus when we surrender to the one true God. Again, not enough room to go through the arguments here.

          • Beth Van

            Wow, a patriot, intellectual, and successfully employed and happily married. Aren’t you just the freak?

          • John Connor

            Thanks for that sweet christian sentiment

          • Beth Van

            Being Christian does not mean belonging to the “Church of Nice”. A big part of the problem is aggressors like you think that you can spew out anything you like and not get anything back.

          • John Connor

            What have I spewed? Aggressor? Because I have an opinion? What hypocrisy. You’ve called me a liar with zero proof and I’m the aggressor?? LOL!

          • Beth Van

            Here we go again. Bragging Mr. Perfect.

  • Wayne Cook

    I lost respect for most Gays years ago when they became very forward in public, screaming at ppl during protests and generally obnozious in restaurants. I am respectful to individuals. That’s it.

  • RKae

    “We’re going to punish the wicked.”

    He certainly does enjoy using the terminology of his perceived enemies.

  • Rese

    The kingdom suffers violence and the violent take it by force.

  • letjusticerolldown

    Here is who will lose this fight: The people with no boundaries and clarity.

    Right now, that is both sides, propelling the entire society into loser status.

    The Tim Gill Army, pursuing a shift in social boundaries, employed tactics that just destroy all the boundaries (versus defining a shift). Tim Gill needs the opposition to save him from himself.

    But the opposition is no more clear.

    Tim Gill wants to tear down whatever used to stand–and the opposition wants to put back up whatever is being taken down.

    Together–such confusion–makes us all losers.

    There are actually Christians on both sides of this issue who COULD lay out (and live) a coherent Gospel response to the complex issues involved that would be good news to all. There would be significant disagreement–but the overriding purposes would be strong enough to maintain a unity and willingness to live out the answers. But such a response would require a deep humility before God and each other. And we will blow everyone off the face of the planet before we bow.

    • Gary

      “There are actually Christians on both sides of this issue”. No, all Christians oppose homosexuals. There are no Christians on the other side.

      • Beth Van

        Your “Christianity” doesn’t allow for repentance and forgiveness???

  • Andrew Mason

    There’s a point homofascists are overlooking. If they’re persecuting those with a Christian identity for failing to approve of their lifestyle choice then it becomes purely political – using the power of the state against their enemies. In that case why should conservatives who reject homosexuality as natural and consider it depraved, or Muslim activists who share a similar view, and who will be the next targets of choice, not seek to punish homosexuals for their perversion?

  • Inheritor88

    Anyone who has read their publications will notice that we “straight” folk are referred to as “breeders” and considered as polluters of mother earth.
    Poor souls, they forgot that it took two opposites to make one of them, which means that their lifestyle leads to ultimate extinction.
    Anyhow we received our final instruction on “Tolerance” from an angel (wonder if he was visiting Lot that fateful night) the instruction is …..
    “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still”.KJV Rev 22:11
    Notice the key instruction “LET” however it does not necessarily mean “Approve Of”.

  • Gary

    This is a war between good and evil. It seems a lot of “Christians” don’t view it in those terms. But the lgbtq certainly do. Their goal is to win. That means they intend to vanquish their enemy. They will not have mercy. They will not call a cease fire. They will continue until either none of their enemies remains, or until none of them remains. They intend to make all of their enemies surrender, or destroy them. If you think I exaggerate, you are naïve.

    • Andrew Mason

      I’d say there’s 5 sides to the battle. As mentioned there’s the homofascists – those who seek to exterminate Biblical Christianity, who claim following Jesus is wickedness. Supporting them are those people who identify themselves as Christian, but reject everything in Scripture bar what suits their feelings and lifestyle choices. Then there’s 2 groups of neutrals – homosexuals who have nothing to do with religion and don’t see how Christianity affects them, plus Christians who’re living under rocks and somehow missed the implications of various legal actions around the world and the demands of activists. Finally there’s those Christians who are aware of what the Bible says about homosexuality, and aware of how endangered they are. Some are public figures so can speak out and oppose or support various efforts, others are merely churchgoers so largely restricted to praying, discussing things with friends, family or colleagues – as appropriate, and writing to their local political representative, assuming they aren’t an activist.

      If you want to add a 6th group you could consider Muslims (& others) who share Christianity’s rejection of the homosexual lifestyle. They too are alarmed and disturbed at the homosexual agenda and leaders can and do work together at times to inform the government about community opposition to assorted plans. Of course that’s all for nought when 5 unelected officials simply impose a change on society and there is no legal way of changing it.

      • Inheritor88

        Very well put Andrew, and observing these things taking place across the “westernized world” two passages of scripture come to mind. Both spoken by Jesus.
        Firstly, as it was in the days of Noah plus Sodom and Gomorrah.
        Secondly Jesus said something very interesting when referring to these end times in Matthew 24:6-51…..
        “And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things MUST COME TO PASS, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

    • Jason Todd

      Indeed. Because make no mistake: These are forces coming straight from the very pits of hell. They must be fought in order for things good and truthful to win.

      • John Connor

        Rubbish

        • Beth Van

          God bless you and bring you to his truth and love.

  • Peter Parisi

    Gill is the real bigot.

  • Gill is just following the spirit of his father in Hell, Lucifer. They would crucify Christ again if he reappeared on Earth. But God will not be mocked, and a day is coming when He will intervene and humiliate these sodomites.

  • donzxcv

    A&E’s ‘what would you do?’ show from today, 8/8/17…pushing hard for the lgbt agenda by condemning people who react negatively to same sex ‘parenting’…they set up a straw man scenario then get only reactions from pro lgbt patrons. Same sex people conceiving and role modeling children is a crime against the unconsenting and defenseless child, against God and humanity.

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