Yes, Childhood Sexual Abuse Often Does Contribute to Homosexuality

By Michael Brown Published on February 23, 2017

What do Anderson Cooper, Don Lemon, George Takei and Milo Yiannopoulos have in common? They are all out and proud gay men, and they were all sexually abused as underage minors. Sadly, this is an extremely common occurrence, as there is frequently a connection between childhood sexual abuse and adult homosexuality.

To say such a thing, of course, is to invite a hailstorm of fierce criticism and ridicule: “You bigoted homophobe! These men were born gay, not made gay, and their sexuality is a gift from God, not the result of sexual abuse. Plus, there are plenty of gay men who were never abused and plenty of straight men who were abused as boys and never turned gay.”

Putting the name-calling aside, there is some truth to these statements.

Numbers Don’t Lie

Not all gay men were molested as boys (since there are multiple causes for homosexuality) and not all boys who are molested turn out gay (probably because they were less predisposed towards homosexuality). Still, it cannot be denied that a disproportionately high number of gay men were abused as boys, and that certainly contributed to their sexual and emotional development.

That’s why it was no surprise when Dr. Robert Epstein, the pro-gay editor-in-chief of Psychology Today, noted that gay readers who were upset with an ad that ran in his publication in 2002 sent him letters asserting “that gays have a right to be rude or abusive because they themselves have been abused” (this obviously included being sexually abused).

And that’s why it was no surprise when a 2009 report prepared for a bisexual health summit revealed that 74 percent of bisexuals had been sexually abused as children. (For other studies focusing specifically on the connection between childhood sexual abuse and homosexuality, see here.)

The environment in which we are raised has a profound effect on our ongoing mental and emotional and social development.

As for the notion that people are born gay, not only would that suggest that infants can relate to the concepts of sexual and romantic attraction (which they obviously cannot), but it would also ignore the fact that our upbringing and environment have profound effects on us. Why deny such an obvious reality?

It is well-known that the children of alcoholics have a much higher chance of becoming alcoholics than the general population, and this cannot be blamed on genetics alone. As stated by the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, “Genes are not the only things children inherit from their parents. How parents act and how they treat each other and their children has an influence on children growing up in the family. These aspects of family life also affect the risk for alcoholism.”

In the same way, it is well-known that men who were abused as children are much more likely than the average population to abuse other children as adults. As summarized in a 2001 article in the British Journal of Psychology:

Among 747 males the risk of being a perpetrator was positively correlated with reported sexual abuse victim experiences … A high percentage of male subjects abused in childhood by a female relative became perpetrators. Having been a victim was a strong predictor of becoming a perpetrator, as was an index of parental loss in childhood.

But again, none of this should surprise us in the least, since the environment in which we are raised, especially if coupled with major, traumatic childhood experiences, has a profound effect on our ongoing mental and emotional and social development.

Society Ignores the Childhood Trauma of Many Gay Adults

Yet when it comes to homosexuality, it is taboo to connect childhood sexual abuse with subsequent gay identity since: 1) this would contradict the “born gay” myth; and 2) it would underscore the fact that homosexual attractions are not natural and positive.

“Every single gay person I know has some sort of drama going on, back in childhood. Something was happening that we’re not allowed to ask about anymore.”

As explained candidly by the lesbian feminist and academic Camille Paglia, “Every single gay person I know has some sort of drama going on, back in childhood. Something was happening that we’re not allowed to ask about anymore.” (She was speaking of bad relationships with parents as well as sexual abuse or other factors.)

In keeping with this, all the professional counselors I have spoken with (including trained pastors and psychologists or psychiatrists) have told me that the vast number of gays they have counseled were sexually abused as minors (some told me this was the case in every instance they encountered).

You might say, “But gays hardly have a monopoly on this. What about the problem of heterosexual schoolteachers having sex with their students, especially female teachers with male students?”

But you miss the point, since: 1) we all agree that this is terrible and abusive; and 2) most of us would agree that such relationships have the real potential of negatively affecting that child’s sexual and emotional development. Yet when it comes to gay men who were molested as boys, we’re told this did not contribute to their (homo)sexual development. More disturbingly, in gay circles, such relationships are often looked at as positive and nurturing, since, it is surmised, the boy was already aware of his same-sex attraction and the older man served as a mentor of sorts.

In Their Own Words

In the words of Harry Hay, the gay icon and founder of the American gay movement:

If the parents and friends of gays are truly friends of gays, they would know from their gay kids that the relationship with an older man is precisely what thirteen-, fourteen-, and fifteen-year-old kids need more than anything else in the world.

You can be assured that such relationships would often become sexual, thereby providing the entry point into the larger homosexual “lifestyle.” (For other quotes from Hay, see here.)

Similarly, the renowned gay activist Larry Kramer opined,

In those cases where children do have sex with their homosexual elders … I submit that often, very often, the child desires the activity, and perhaps even solicits it, either because of a natural curiosity … or because he or she is homosexual and innately knows it. … And unlike girls or women forced into rape or traumatized, most gay men have warm memories of their earliest and early sexual encounters; when we share these stories with each other, they are invariably positive ones.

That’s why “man-boy love” has been celebrated in homosexual culture through the centuries, that’s why there’s a page listing “Historical pederastic couples” on a gay Wikipedia site, and that’s why George Takei could speak glowingly of his first sexual encounter at the age of 13 (with a 19-year-old male camp counselor), at a time when he admits he didn’t know he was gay.

In this light, the outrageous statement by philosopher Michael Foucalt, arguing for lowering the age of consent, doesn’t sound as outrageous: “It is quite difficult to lay down barriers [particularly since] it could be that the child, with his own sexuality, may have desired the adult.”

Ah yes, it was the child asking for it again. This too is sickening beyond words.

The reality is that children, especially pre-teens and young teens, are tremendously impressionable and malleable, as confirmed by this account shared by a Christian family activist (reflecting on his pre-Christian youth):

When I was about 14 or 15, I spent an afternoon smoking pot with a ‘gay’ guy in his 20’s who explained that young people during puberty have a very fluid sexual identity and how easy it had been for him to turn young teen boys into sex partners … A confirming study I later saw said 25% of young teens suffer same-sex confusion but most grow out of it naturally by the end of adolescence.

Ex-gay Robert Lopez, raised by his mother and her lesbian partner, had this to say:

In a society soaked in porn where sexual orientation is discussed openly in front of small children, there will certainly be 12- and 13-year-olds who think they want sex and think they are ready for it. When we discuss ‘gay identity’ with 6th graders, which is very common, what are we discussing? We are talking about sexual acts. Perhaps people need to stand up and resist the Human Rights Campaign’s recent push to force such curricula on elementary and middle schools.

It is truly distasteful to speak of such things, but speak about them we must, given the ever-increasing scope of gay activism, especially in our children’s schools. And with the terribly painful issue of childhood sexual abuse coming to the fore in recent days, let’s use this as a teachable moment.

We can do this by: 1) being on the lookout for signs that our own children may have been abused; 2) refusing to allow our kids to be experimental pawns in the culture wars, because of which we strongly oppose sex-based LGBT curricula in the schools; and 3) no longer denying the common connection between childhood sexual abuse and adult homosexuality, thereby providing a path for healing and wholeness.

By doing these things, we will not only make this a teachable moment, we will make it a redemptive one.

Print Friendly
Comments ()
The Stream encourages comments, whether in agreement with the article or not. However, comments that violate our commenting rules or terms of use will be removed. Any commenter who repeatedly violates these rules and terms of use will be blocked from commenting. Comments on The Stream are hosted by Disqus, with logins available through Disqus, Facebook, Twitter or G+ accounts. You must log in to comment. Please flag any comments you see breaking the rules. More detail is available here.
  • Autrey Windle

    Dr. Brown, I kind of adore you but you may be missing something. Numbers may not lie, but people do and numbers rely on true reporting for accuracy. I doubt you have ever been sexually abused. I certainly hope you never have been. I don’t want to burst any bubbles or maybe I do, but from someone who has been very inside all these issues and been very inside these alphabetical splinter groups of Americans, I can tell you I never met an actual homosexual who had no abusive past from their childhood. I did meet many (most) who would never tell those truths to anyone outside the community or any psychology or ministerial professionals. I would give anything to bring these confused people to the healing hands of Jesus and the pure love of The Father, but so far, that does not seem to be one of my gifts of communication. I do know that excluding the possibility that abuse is the root of perversion is to allow wiggle room for the victimized to think that maybe they are the ‘normal’ God-created homosexuals. God created men and women. Not gays and straights and certainly not one sex inside a different sex’s body. God does not make mistakes. To allow supposition that God does is the work of the liar to claim God’s children for his own minions of lying, destruction and death.

    • eddiestardust

      Ms Windle, YOU have your own axe to grind and I wonder what that is?

      • Autrey Windle

        maybe I’m just a horrible protestant making things up as you have said before…

      • Durandel Almiras

        eddiestardust, it sounds like YOU only have one liners to provide. Instead of suppositions of another’s psychological motives, give a counter argument instead.

    • Tim A

      I was never abused, sexually or otherwise, as a child. Yet the attractions to other boys still happened. I grew up in a conservative church… I was told it was wrong. I never acted on my attractions. I was pretty lonely during my teen years as I would not, based on my churches teaching, act on my own natural attractions. I spent most nights crying out to God to change me… to make those attractions go away. I attempted suicide twice because God was not answering my prayers in this matter. In my 20s I finally decided to do something about it, and went to a church based reparative therapy endorsed by Exodus. It nearly killed me. The torture I received from these “christians” was so damaging that I ended up burying the internal scars for nearly 20 years. They finally reserviced about 6 years ago, and I found that I finally had to deal with the damage that therapy had actually done in my life. I am a gay man. God created me as a gay man. I praise HIS name that He decided my life was so special to receive this gift from Him. I am happier and healthier after turning to Jesus as a gay man than I ever was pretending to be straight. God help Michael Brown and others like him see the damage they continue to do to people who truly need help. They continue to push people away from God’s grace with their rhetoric.

      • Patmos

        “God created me as a gay man.”

        He did not create you that way. If so, he would not have called homosexuality an abomination.

        Continue on in God’s word, and you will know the truth and the truth will set you free. The name of Jesus is the name above all names, and you have the authority to use it (Luke 10:17-20).

        • Tim A

          Oh you poor unfortunate soul. Do you even understand what all those “abominations” in the Bible really are? Apparently not. The Hebrew word in those 2 Leviticus verses that has been translated in modern Bibles to “abomination” really means “taboo”. It does NOT mean “sin”. The exact same Hebrew word is used several times in Genesis, and also translated as “abomination”, but NONE of those mean “sin”. You can tell by the context of the passages in Genesis that the word is used. In each Genesis case the Hebrew word means something that is culturally unacceptable for a group of people, that is perfectly acceptable for another group. YOU may not understand why someone may do something… It MAY be a “taboo” for you… but that does not make it either wrong or sinful. I suggest you actually study your Bible before using words you do not understand.

          • Patmos

            If there was nothing wrong with it, God would not have called for those people to be put to death (Leviticus 20:13).

            Greater question here, why do you ignore the teachings of Jesus and the believer’s authority? Why do you try to use God’s word to justify yourself, when that’s not what it’s for?

            The gospel of Jesus Christ is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (Romans 1:16). What is it you think Paul is talking about here? What is it believers are being saved from?

            If God’s grace meant license to do whatever you want, there would be no need for him to extend that grace in the first place.

            Continue on in God’s word, and you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.

          • Mike Painter

            “Anyone who injures their neighbor is to be injured in the same manner: fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth.” – “God” (Leviticus 24:19-20)

            “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person.” – Jesus aka God (Matthew 5:38-39).

            The man you claim to worship evidently thought it was fine to toss out scripture that hurt people. There’s a lot from Leviticus and the Old Testament Jesus openly defied. And while you were busying hating Tim for no rational reason, you didn’t even acknowledge that he was tortured and haunted by “ex-gay therapy.” “Christians” like you tortured and abused Tim when he was young, not gay men.

          • Patmos

            Jesus did not defy the Torah, it’s why he said that not one bit of it would pass away until everything is accomplished (Matthew 5:18). His teachings merely expanded on the law and explained it. It’s why he said to not only not murder, but not to hate. The only thing Jesus defied was what the Pharisees added through their own customs.

            As far as hating Tim, I did no such thing. Regarding his abuse, I’ll say it again: Continue on in God’s word and you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.

          • Tim A

            The truth HAS set me free… as a gay man.

            BTW — you DO know that Leviticus was written for Hebrew priests (from the tribe of Levi), and not the entire Hebrew population, right?

          • Patmos

            “Leviticus was written for Hebrew priests (from the tribe of Levi), and not the entire Hebrew population”

            That’s just simply not true. I can’t really take you seriously anymore when you’re so far off.

            Look, if you’re concerned about condemnation, Christ does not condemn. So why even focus on that aspect? Why not pursue what God has for you, if you truly believe? Nowhere in The New Testament does it say God has given believers a spirit of lust, but it does say that we have authority over every deceitful spirit (Ephesians 1:21 and 2:6).

            Continue on in his word, for God’s word is quick and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword! Come to the light, so that your deeds may be manifest that they are wrought in God. You’re close, I can tell you that much. God has not turned his back on you.

          • Tim A

            I AM pursuing what God has for me. YOU just don’t want to believe it. YOU don’t want to believe that a gay man could be of God. YOU want to believe that homosexuality it all about lust. That tells me you do not know very many homosexuals… and I mean really know them on a personal level. YOU want to believe what Michael Brown says about homosexuals, when it is simply NOT true.

          • Gary

            Jesus Christ doesn’t like you. And He’s going to prove that forever.

          • Tim A

            Gary, Jesus told you this personally? That He doesn’t like me? Because I get an entirely different message when I pray.

          • Gary

            I found out by reading the Bible that God does not like queers. And the God of the Bible is not going to tell you something different. You must be getting messages from some other god.

          • Tim A

            Really, Gary? Because the Bible I read says God LOVES everyone:

            John 3:16-18 (NIV): 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

            Why do you hold disdain for that which God says He loves??

          • Gary

            God loves everyone in Hell. But they are still in Hell.

          • Tim A

            God Bless you, Gary. You have so much misinformation in your head, and it comes out through your heart. May God open your heart to love those who for you hold such disdain, and learn from them.

          • Kevin Quillen

            do not forget that “believers” were told, “depart from me, I never knew you”. Believing is not enough. One must obey. Be careful. New Testament clearly says queer behavior is sin. Romans 1 and 1Cor 6

          • Tim A

            Romans 1:26 starts with “Because of this…” or something similar depending on the Bible you are reading… Because of what? What follows — the stuff people like you like to quote to gay people — is dependent on what happened before… so, what happens before verse 26??

          • Kevin Quillen

            Romans 1:22 “professing to be wise, they became fools”. You have worked very hard to justify your sin. I will pray for you to have the strength to resist and repent.

            I am done.

          • Tim A

            Kevin — Romans 1:23 ” and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.”

            They were worshiping idols.

            But, please, let’s not stop there. Let’s take it into Romans 2:1 “You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.”

          • george

            Again, people are same sex attracted/gay since their birth. There is no difference born in christian homes or out. Yes people are born gay. Many heterosexual people were abused as kids, but they have never become gays. No person in this world would desire to be in sexual minority, especially brought up in conservative churches, being involved in ministry …
            Romans one is not the ultimate source of truth about people being gays. There are Manny idol worshippers, ex Christians and atheists, who left bible, who changed living God to other gods, but they never became gays.
            Even though I was never involved in any homosexual sex and I was never sexually abused as a child, I am still same sex attracted. No prayers and fast helps. And here I am telling you of my life of almost 4 decades.
            Nobody chooses to be gay, bisexual, or samesexattracted.
            If Roland’s letter was true then. Most of the population of the world would of been lgbt.
            Read it well and you will see it.

          • Tim A

            1Cor 6:9 has two words that, when translated into English, have been understood to be directed against homosexuality. The Greek words, malakoi(s) and arsenokoitay, are problematic for different reasons, however.

            malakos – is an adjective.
            malakois appears in Matt 11:8 and Luke 7:25 and is the neuter/plural form of malakos. Malakoi appears in 1Cor 6:9 and is the masculine/plural form of malakos. That is the full extent of the appearance of the malakos adjective in the NT.

            Malakos appears in ancient Greek texts and is understood to mean, variously, freshly plowed (when talking about land), luxurious (when talking about clothing), and is also used to mean temple idol slaves or servants (Homer and others).

            The Latin Vulgate Bible, from the 5th century, translated malakois (Matt 11:8 and Luke 7:25) into mollibus, which means “luxurious” or “effeminate”. It translated malakoi (1Cor 6:9) into idolis servientes, which means idol slaves or servants.

            The King James version (1611), which relied heavily on the Vulgate, translated malakois to “soft” in Matt and Luke, as it was referring to clothing. But in 1Cor, evidently not being happy with “idol servants”, they translated malakoi into “effeminate”. It seems to many scholars that the Latin translators were closer in time and culture than the English translators, so they would have a better idea of meaning. None-the-less, the KJV translation has, of course, stuck ever since.

          • Tim A

            As far as arsenokoitay is concerned, it appears twice in Scripture and not at all in classic Greek literature. It is a compound word, not uncommon in Greek. 1Cor 6:9 uses arsenokoitay and 1Tim 1:10 uses arsenokoitais. The words combined to make the first word are arsen (adjective neuter/singular), o (masculine definite article) and koitay (noun feminine/singular). The second word is the same, except that koitais is feminine/plural.

            Now, the first thing is that the Greek language is gender specific. These words have feminine endings which means they refer to something female. The word parts are varied, however. arsen means “male”. o is the male definite article (the). koitey, the root of koitay and koitais, means “bed” or “place where koitus (coitus) occurs” — can we presume “female’s bed”, since it is feminine?

            What is being communicated here? Nobody is really sure. The KJV opted for “the abusers of themselves with mankind”. The NIV went with “homosexual offenders”. The NRSV went with “sodomites”.

            The notion of “men in a bed together” is not literal at all, but shows the same bias as KJV, by assuming a lot of things that the Greek, or Latin, does not say.

            But the Vulgate, translated 1000 years earlier, and closer to the original culture, than the KJV translated to adulteri, which means “adulterer” but in the female tense. You could argue that this doubles up on the earlier use of adulterer appearing in the same verse, but that one is male tense.

          • Tom

            ^See? These people are malicious and hate-filled.

          • Kevin Quillen

            Romans 1:26-27 and 1 Cor 6:9-11. Notice verse 11, “were some of
            you”! They can be changed, therefore proof of “NOT BORN” that way.
            Let Jesus set you free. Face the truth.

          • Tim A

            Romans 1:26 starts with “Because of this…” Because of what? What happens BEFORE this verse is key to what is being said AFTER this statement.

            1Cor 6:9 has two words that, when translated into English, have been
            understood to be directed against homosexuality. The Greek the words,
            malakoi(s) and arsenokoitay, are problematic for different reasons, however.

            malakos – is an adjective.

            malakois appears in Matt 11:8 and Luke 7:25 and is the neuter/plural form of
            malakos. malakoi appears in 1Cor 6:9 and is the masculine/plural form of
            malakos. This is the full extent of the appearance of the malakos adjective in
            the New Testament.

            It appears in ancient Greek texts and is understood to mean, variously, freshly
            plowed (when talking about land), luxurious (when talking about clothing) and
            is also used to mean temple idol slaves or servants (Homer and others).

            The Latin Vulgate Bible, from the 5th century translated malakois (Matt 11:8
            and Luke 7:25) into mollibus, which means “luxurious” or
            “effeminate”. It translated malakoi (1Cor 6:9) into idolis
            servientes, which means idol slaves or servants.

            The King James version (1611), which relied heavily on the Vulgate, translated
            malakois to “soft” in Matt and Luke, as it was referring to clothing.
            But in 1Cor, evidently not being happy with “idol servants” they
            translated malakoi into “effeminate”. It seems to many scholars that
            the Latin translators were closer in time and culture than the English
            translators, so they would have a better idea of meaning. None-the-less, the
            KJV translation has, of course, stuck ever since.

            As far as arsenokoitay is concerned it appears twice in scripture and not at
            all in classic Greek literature. It is a compound word, not uncommon in Greek.
            1 Cor 6:9 uses arsenokoitay and 1Tim 1:10 uses arsenokoitais. The words
            combined to make the first word are arsen (adjective neuter/singular), o
            (masculine definite article) and koitay (noun feminine/singular). The second
            word is the same, except that koitais is feminine/plural.

            Now, the first thing is that the Greek language is gender specific. These words
            have feminine endings which means they refers to something female. The word
            parts are varied, however. arsen means “male”. o is the male definite article
            (the). koitey, the root of koitay and koitais, means “bed” or “place where
            koitus (coitus) occurs” – can we presume “female’s bed”, since
            it is feminine?

            What was being communicated here? No-one is really sure. The KJV opted for “the
            abusers of themselves with mankind”. The NIV went with “homosexual offenders”.
            The NRSV went with “sodomites”.

            The notion of “men in a bed together” is not literal at all, but
            shows the same bias as KJV, by assuming a lot of things that the Greek, or Latin,
            doesn’t say.

            But the Vulgate, translated 1000 years earlier, and closer to the original
            culture, than the KJV translated to adulteri, which means “adulterer” but in
            the female tense. You could argue that this doubles up on the earlier use of
            adulterer appearing in the same verse, but that one is male tense.

            So which meaning do you want to use? It seems you have quite the range of
            choices, and biblical scholars can’t agree.

          • Tom

            Brother, RUN!

            Run from these people! There is no use talking to them. And when you can’t run or they put your back against the wall, then fight!

          • Mike Painter

            “His teachings merely expanded upon the law.” Are you kidding? “You have heard it said, ‘An eye for an eye,’ but I say love your enemies…” is a rejection of “An eye for an eye,” not an expansion, not an explanation. Jesus rejected the dietary laws (“Nothing that goes in a man can make him unclean”), The Sabbath-keeping law (“The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath”), and the law about stoning adulteresses (“Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”). None of these are Pharisee additions. These are laws that were always in the Torah…that Jesus rejected.

            Regarding Tim’s abuse (and the abuse of all gay people), it is the fault of people like you. Save me the “Continue in God’s word” talk and tell me whether you condemn or condone “ex-gay therapy” that clearly has been shattering people’s self-esteems, ruining their lives, driving them to suicide, and not doing a thing to change someone’s sexual orientation. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with one’s morals, is not a choice, is not the product of sexual abuse, and cannot be changed. No one chooses to be gay, no one can “stop” being gay. These are realities you’ll have to deal with. I know it challenges your beliefs, I know it makes your views of gay people unjustified. But in the end, are religion and tradition really more important than compassion? If you say yes, you are a Pharisee.

          • Kevin Quillen

            I think better to use new testament verses. Romans 1:26-27 and 1 Cor 6:9-11. Notice verse 11, “were some of you”! They can be changed, therefore proof of “NOT BORN” that way.
            Peace Brother.

          • krinks

            See the logical fallacy called Argument From Ignorance. There in you’ll see the fallacy of the Homosexuality is not a sin argument.

          • Gary

            God has damned you. Nothing you can do about it, and God won’t do anything to fix it.

          • Kevin Quillen

            Lev 18:22 “abomination” here is Strong’s #8441 (Strong’s Concordance)
            meaning; something disgusting, an abhorrence.
            Sounds about right.

          • Tim A

            The Hebrew word in these passages is “to’evah”.

            to’evah, by itself, indicates something
            unacceptable to local custom. Genesis 43:32 has a curious observation about the
            meal that Joseph ordered to be prepared for his brothers during their second
            visit. Joseph, still masquerading as an Egyptian — he recognizes his brothers,
            but they don’t yet know who he is — has a meal prepared for his guests. But
            Joseph eats alone, not with his brothers, because for Egyptians to dine with
            Hebrews is “a to’evah for the Egyptians.” Another Egyptian to’evah,
            according to Genesis 46:34, are shepherds. Joseph coaches his family to tell
            Pharoah that they are shepherds so that they can settle in Goshen, “because
            every shepherd is an Egyptian to’evah.” After the 4th plague, as part of the
            negotiations between Moses and Pharaoh, Pharaoh agrees to let the Hebrews
            sacrifice to their God within the land. But Moses counters that it’s a bad
            idea, because (Exodus 8:22, also numbered 8:26) what the Hebrews sacrifice is a
            to’evah of the Egyptians, and if the Egyptians see the Hebrews offering such a
            sacrifice, the Hebrews will be stoned to death. According to these texts, a
            to’evah is culturally determined. Something can be a to’evah in one culture but
            not in another. So the Hebrew sacrifices are a to’evah for the Egyptians, but,
            obviously, hugely encouraged in Hebrew society; shepherding is similar. And it
            was only in Egyptian culture that Egyptians couldn’t dine with Hebrews. Another
            way to look at it is this: The Hebrew to’evah seems to a statement about how
            people perceive something, not about the thing that is perceived. There’s
            nothing wrong with shepherds, for example, but the Egyptians see them
            peculiarly. Apparently this is what “abomination” is supposed to mean in
            English too.

      • krinks

        Drivel. God didn’t create you with tendencies towards that which he calls an abomination with a judgment due in this life. I suspect this is your way of lying about the issue.

        • Tom

          “Drivel.”

          And you accuse him of lying.
          This is why gays rightfully hold people like you as enemies.

          Because you are.

          • krinks

            Gays make themselves enemies when they are raped/molested as children, grow up to do the same to others, and pretend they were born that way. Besides the Catholic Church found out the hard way what happens when they trust homosexual men to have unsupervised self control around children.

          • Tom

            I wasn’t raped or molested. But I’m sure you’ll find a way to make me an enemy, anyway. 🙂

          • krinks

            Of course you were. You just don’t want to admit it. Chances are very good you were ~13 and he was well over 21. You weren’t born that way, you’re mentally ill in need of treatment.

          • Tom

            What? I can’t read any of this. It’s pure insanity.

            Someone is literally telling me that I was molested to fit their political/moral narrative. It’s disgusting in the extreme.

            I was never molested. But you have to believe I was to fit your agenda. Now that’s a sickness.

          • Tom

            I was never raped. So… any other suggestions?

          • krinks

            keep going..or with the victim of……You were recruited. It happens in prison every day. Molest/rape a man enough times he learns to love it just as you have. You were too weak to over come trauma.

    • NG

      The point you are making is exactly the one Dr, brown was raising in his article.
      It is indeed naive to assume that abuse has no influence on one’s identity..

  • Paul

    In California the homosexual activists have managed to get a law banning therapy for kids that challenges their homosexual feelings. Also any speech negative to homosexuality is banned in schools. And yet the same folks celebrate homosexual child rape. See a pattern here?

    • Tom

      I wasn’t molested so what’s your fictional story for me?

      I’m sure you’ll call me a liar for your narrative. The people who you condemn and slander are irrelevant so long as you push this narrative, right? Casualties of war, I’m guessing.

    • Angie

      Homosexuality is a natural variation with a genetic, and epigentic basis. it is a less commonly occurring gene expression like the difference between Blue eyes and Brown. Most people have brown eyes in some form(dark brown, light brown, hazel, etc.) but a few have blue. Once this mutation for the blue variation entered the human genetic line it will never leave. It is simply a natural variation, which by the way only started about 10K years ago. In the Bronze Age, they could not understand the value or necessity or naturalness of these harmless variations, and they were frightened of what they could not understand. Baby’s with blue eyes were often killed or though to be evil witches. Heck babies with birthmarks like a Portwine stain were considered to have the mark of the Devil and were often killed or villified and bullied for no reason. Today we know it’s a simple harmless genetic variation. Why carry on a war against reality because the wisest Bronze Age sage didn’t have the scientific knowledge a five year old has today?

    • Jack

      Homosexuals don’t recruit. Heterosexuals keep popping them out.

    • Jack

      That “therapy” doesn’t challenge their “feelings.”

      “Also any speech negative to homosexuality is banned in schools.”

      Could you provide the law you are referencing, please?

      “And yet the same folks celebrate homosexual child rape.”

      There are two assertions there that require proof:

      1. that folks celebrate homosexual child rape and
      2. that the folks who celebrate homosexual child rape are the same folks who managed to get a law banning the therapy you first mentions.

      It’s just too d@mn easy to make up stuff like that.

  • Kathy Verbiest Baldock

    You sure are a piece of works Brown.

    From my book, with CITED research:
    “While there is no consensus as to the root cause of sexual orientation, it is agreed by all medical and health care professional that orientation is not related to a child’s postnatal social environment. In other words, there is nothing to indicate the parenting or early childhood events, such as abuse, affect either gender or sexual orientation.
    Feeling like outsiders an sensing that they should not talk about the differences there are experiencing often makes this children more vulnerable to abusers. While there is a higher correlation between homosexual orientation and becoming a victim of sexual abuse, the abuse does not cause homosexual orientation; rather, there orientation makes a child more susceptible to the abuse. The scenario is frequently twisted backwards to say that childhood abuse leads to homosexuality. This is patently false. The fact is that shamed children are easy and vulnerable targets for abusers.”

    But heck, who wants research? YOU are part of the continuing problem of shaming in the church and therefore, part of the continuing cycle of abuse.

    • BPS

      “Numbers may not lie, but people do and numbers rely on true reporting for accuracy.”
      From Autrey Windle, below who commented 1 hour ago.

    • eddiestardust

      Sounds like YOU have your own axe to grind, Ms Baldock…

      • Kathy Verbiest Baldock

        Yeah, I don’t like lies.

        • DCM7

          Translation: “I don’t like truth that doesn’t fit my narrative.”

        • BXVI

          The so-called “research” in this field (and many others) is highly politicized. Most of it is generated in left-wing, progressive academic echo-chambers that reward conclusions that are perceived to be pro-LGBT and ruthlessly punish the opposite conclusions. Very few people would dare to reach the wrong conclusions lest their careers come to a screeching halt. On the other hand, a study that reaches the “right” conclusions will be praised and handsomely rewarded. Those who want to play that game know how. Those who don’t move on to a different career. So no, I don’t place much, if any, weight on the so-called “research” that you cite.

        • Paul

          The lie is pretending two dudes having sex is normal. Doesn’t take much to figure that out.

          • Tom

            No mention of lesbians in your beef, per usual…

    • gdod25

      Yours is a pseudoscience in which what cannot be cured is normalized. Nice to plug your book eh?

      • Kathy Verbiest Baldock

        I have done the work and the research and it happens to be in my book. I’m not ashamed of that.

    • m-nj

      i think Scott Cone’s reply above is an apt retort to your progressive liberal thinking… even IF some are born with a predisposition towards homosexuality, the ultimate reason they have these unnatural attractions is that we ALL are born sinners. the issue is whether we ACT on our sinful predispositions or repent from them, which only happens through the power of God in changing our inborn sinful nature.

      • Brad Will

        We are not born sinners. Sin is an act of the will, not a genetic malady passed from parent to offspring. Your false doctrine of Original Sin only bolsters the claim of sodomites that they are born that way.

        Homosexuality is a sin.
        People are born sinners.
        Therefore, people can be born homosexual.

        Get your head out of Reformed books and see how vacuous their claims of this Augustinian doctrine really is. Sin cannot be something you are born “with”, as it is not a stuff. God makes each of us. We are His offspring.

        • Dorrie

          Ever since Adam, we WERE born sinners. That’s scriptural. And unless or until we recognize it and ask Yeshua/Jesus into our heart & live, we’re LOST.

          • Brad Will

            False, you put on a sinful nature when you start practicing it. You are not born with it. Sin is an action, not a physical constitution. Until you can intellectually discern the ridiculousness of saying someone is “born with a sinful nature”, there is no rescuing you from that false doctrinal system.

    • BXVI

      A significant percentage of gay men like man-boy sex; they would prefer a boy to another man. You should read the stuff the write, or listen to them tell their stories of fantasies about sex with teen or even pre-teen boys. The percentage of gay men who engage in or fantasize about this stuff is significantly higher than the percentage of straight men who want sex with underage girls. Such abuse of minors is part-and-parcel of the whole gay “thing” for many gay men.

      • Tom

        I like how you pretend that a huge amount of heterosexual men aren’t sexually interested in underage girls.

        In fact, you straight out lie. I truly, truly loathe people like you. Though I’m sure that you’ll hide behind God’s skirt and say I have a “reprobate mind” or that I have “hate in my soul.”

    • DCM7

      “it is agreed by all medical and health care professional that orientation is not related to a child’s postnatal social environment. In other words, there is nothing to indicate the parenting or early childhood events, such as abuse, affect either gender or sexual orientation.”

      Whatever cited research you may claim to have, there is too much knowledge outside your world that puts the lie to your claims. For a start, many of us know the background behind positions on homosexuality such as the APA’s (basically 100% political pressure, 0% evidence). Thus, citing such positions (in a nice little “appeal to authority” fallacy) is a pathetic joke.

    • Patmos

      Kathy Verbiest Baldock is quite simply not a believer in God and his son Jesus Christ. Why else would she put the works of men above the word of God? I wonder if she’ll ever realize what she is doing before it’s too late.

    • dchap

      Kathy, actually Dr. Brown provided scientific documentation to back all his claims in the article linked in this sentence in his article: (For other studies focusing specifically on the connection between childhood sexual abuse and homosexuality, see here.)

    • Kevin Quillen

      the studies of identical twins provide the answer to the “born that way” question. “Identical twins” One queer and one not. It is not genetic, it is environmental.

      • Dorrie

        AMEN!

      • Tim A

        How can it be environmental if they are raised in the same environment? AND “Identical twins” are not fully identical. They have different finger prints, and foot prints… and most parents of identical twins will tell you that they have different personalities… right from birth.

        • Dant e

          Just because they`re raised in a similar environment doesn`t mean they have the same experiences.

          • Tim A

            Unless they were separated at birth, and adopted by different set of parents, most identical twins are raised not in similar environments, but the exact same environment at the exact same time.

          • Dant e

            Not necessarily, they may have very different experiences with their families and others.

    • Royce E. Van Blaricome

      “it is agreed by all medical and health care professional that orientation is not related to a child’s postnatal social environment.”

      Well, that’s just a verifiably proven outright lie. So much for your book. Ah but we all know what you’re response will be. That by “all” you mean all those who are “credible” according to YOU because they agree with your fallacious POV.

      There is NO such thing as a “sexual orientation” toward anything other than the “orientation” God gives all people. The truth is Same-Sex Attraction (SSA) is NOT the same as “sexual orientation”. Just another lie to perpetuate your Liberal agenda.

      But hey, thanks for publicly displaying that you and UC Davis think one putting their opinions into a published book and giving it a fancy name somehow makes that “facts”.

      Of course, you won’t be intellectually honest enough to admit that.

      • Tom

        ^So much for the loving and tolerant Christian Right.

        Only they have sexual orientations. The rest of us have “same-sex attraction,” apparently. (What a made-up buzz-term that they foist upon us…)

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          So much for the God-hating, spiritually-dead, totally-depraved sons of disobedience and children of wrath.

          Not “apparently”. Rather “actually”. And the LGBTQABCXYZ+50 have NO place talking about made-up buzz-terms foisted upon others. Smh!

          But hey I’m all for you helping to stop the hypocrisy. Since you’ll stop using misnomers like “gay”, “sexual orientation”, and others, and go back to the truth like homosexual, sodomite, queer, and sin, just be sure now to tell all the others to do so too.

          • Tom

            You really are the stereotypical representation of the WORST of the Christian religion.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Again, you would do best if you refrain from speaking on subjects you’re clueless about. And I could really not care less about what a God-hating, spiritually-dead, totally-depraved, son of disobedience, and children of wrath has to think about what is a representation of the Christian religion.

          • Tom

            See? You know nothing of me but you want to believe that I’m the worst… so you do.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            See? You know nothing of me but you want to believe that I’m the worst… so you do.

            Your faux-omniscience from your self-imposed god-complex has failed you again. Furthermore, IF you did actually know anything about the Bible you’d know that I already know PLENTY about you.

            You must be bored silly having to refresh a thread that’s been dormant for 6mos! LOL

          • Tom

            I just logged in my Disqus for the 1st time in like a year.

            But you want to believe the worst about me so you make up some story to shame me.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Buddy, I don’t need to do a thing to shame you. You do that quite well all by yourself. And you have NO idea what I want. Your self-imposed narcissistic psychotic god-complex has you so deluded that you actually think you can read others minds! LOL

          • Tom

            And you actually know very little about me but you have to believe otherwise so you can continue to antagonize me.

            Very Christian.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Antagonize – cause (someone) to become hostile.

            Just like the typical little liberal snowflake. Can’t take personal responsibility for his actions. Has to blame them on someone else. Sorry bud, but everyone can see it is YOU who initiated this whole thing.

            And, once AGAIN, you know NOTHING about what it means to be a Christian.

          • Tom

            I haven’t been on here in a long time but I know you’ll find any reason to shame me.

            How very Christian.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Repeating yourself now and still talking outta your six about stuff you know nothing about. I’m not shaming you. You’re doing that all by yourself. Just keep talking. You’re doing just fine shaming yourself. In fact, you shame yourself every single time you post with that avatar,

          • Tom

            And, actually, I have EVERY right to talk about buzzwords that you and your agenda have foisted upon me and others like me.

            See, you labor under the delusion that your faith gives you some kind of power or superiority over the rights of others. It does not.

            I know, I come from an area where people such as you are prevalent. You TRULY seem to believe that you have some kind of authority over others.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            You have every right to talk about anything you want but that doesn’t address what I said. I have no clue what “buzzwords” you are talking about that I and my agenda have foisted upon you. Would that be “homosexual”? “Sodomite”. “Reprobate”. “Spiritually-dead”. “Totally-depraved”? “Son of disobedience”? “Child of wrath? If so, I didn’t make them up according to some agenda of mine. Unlike you and your agenda with “gay” or “marriage”, I actually took them from God’s Word. So you argument isn’t with me but God.

            I actually don’t labor under any delusion that my faith gives me some some of power or superiority over the rights of others. It does.

            I am a Child of God. Adopted son of the Most High God. Co-heir with Jesus Christ. Blood-bought Born Again Saint indwelt with the Holy Spirit of God. A NEW Creation IN CHRIST. Blessed & highly favored Ambassador to Jesus Christ.

            The sad thing is YOU could have that same Gift but you reject it.

          • Tom

            You think your faith gives you power over others??

            That is terrifying.

            And guess What? You’re wrong. That’s the kind of sentiment that starts wars…

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Don’t “think” – KNOW. You should be terrified but not of my power – God’s. And no, you can swim in the river Denial all you wish but it doesn’t change the fact I’m right.

            But hey, thanks for showing AGAIN the best ya got.

          • Tom

            The fact that you think your faith gives you power over others says everything.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Yes it does. Thank you.

          • Tom

            ^Here’s the reason why X-chuns have such a bad name.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            There’s of the many reasons the LGBTQABCXYZ+50 have such a bad name.

            And note that he can’t even bring himself to type Christ. Poor fool. Has no life and has to go searching back 6mos just to find somebody to harass.

    • GLT

      ” it is agreed by all medical and health care professional that orientation is not related to a child’s postnatal social environment.”

      That, Ma’am, is a outright, blatant lie and you know it. There is no where near 100% agreement on the role social orientation plays in relation to development of sexual identity. By making such a statement you clearly demonstrate the depth of your intellectual dishonesty. Really, you should be completely ashamed to call yourself an objective researcher. Truly pitiful!

    • Misti Green

      I am not a researcher or doctor. Just a common regular mom. Everyone I’ve known in that lifestyle hurt others, abused, had been abused, died young of disease, or completely tore their families apart. So far just being a regular mom I’ve never seen that as a healthy lifestyle for anyone. The children in those homes are confused. The children left behind from homes that have broken off the marriage due to that lifestyle are so hurt and confused. My sweet friend had a gay neighbor who was absolutely crazy and disrupted the entire neighborhood. He started things with every neighbor in that neighborhood. The Christians tried to reach out and love on him but he continued to always make threats. He was lonely, depressed and he knew he had a lot of problems and confusion.
      I wish so badly that other regular people that no one cares to hear from would share what they really see in that lifestyle.
      When I worked in cosmetics I knew this young teen that was involved with an older young male. The older male would buy a ton of products for him. Anything the boy wanted. The young man could not even look me in the face. He was so sad and ashamed that for sex acts he lived to make his way and have nice things bought for him. They were regular customers and again I don’t know anything because I am a regular person to those who are activist for the gay community but I’m telling you I could go on with several more stories that would blow your mind and cause one to rethink pushing and teaching this lifestyle.
      Very sad and leads to slot of distruction.
      By the way to the writer of this article all of my mom friends find this to be one of the best articles on this subject we’ve ever read in a long time.
      Thank you for the honesty.

    • Dorrie

      I’ve put your name on my prayer chain, Kathy. You seem very angry and bitter. We are 50 people who pray for each name on the list every day for 50 days.

      You’ve clearly bought into a lie and it’s TRAGIC!

      • Kathy Verbiest Baldock

        My, my. I think you for the prayer. I am now 61 and have not had ANYONE who knows me EVER say they find me “angry and bitter.” In fact, most people say I am amongst the most joy filled people they know.

        I am educated, passionate and do speak up.

        You are wrong on your beliefs about the process in which homosexuality was taken out of the DSM. Again, I did research with original sources, not rehashing of convenient narratives.

        If you go to my blog, I am EASY to find, and search the name Kenneth Lewes, you will have a recap of the longer version which I present in a full chapter of my book.

        Your information is severely flawed, but, since it likely works for you and your worldview, I would not expect you to challenge it.

      • Tom

        Homosexuality was removed from the DSM due to political pressure… but not in the way that you believe.

        The APA was forced to acknowledge that once homosexuality was held up to their own standards as to what constitutes as a disease/mental disorder, it didn’t add up.

        Brave people who have been subjected to the barbarous torture you lot refer to as “reparative therapy” have revealed this practice for what it is…. a dangerous crock of manure.

    • Elizabeth Woodard Weaver

      Suggest you read the book, “Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth” for plenty of CITED evidence that there is a strong correlation between sexual abuse and subsequent identity as a homosexual.

      • Kathy Verbiest Baldock

        I have. It is on my bookshelf with other Satinover books. I read on both sides of the discussion to come to conclusions and in order to write my own 450+ page book (with almost 500 footnotes).

      • Kathy Verbiest Baldock

        I have and it is on my bookshelf.

    • Tom

      This is enemy territory, honey. I sincerely appreciate you and your research but we’re not among friends here.

      • Kathy Verbiest Baldock

        First, not your honey. Secondly, unfortunately research is rarely welcome into Christian spaces where the topic is human sexuality. This is quite sad that people do not want to engage with their intellect and spirit.

        One can always hope people may choose to learn. Sadly, you are seemingly not amongst those who choose to engage with intellect and faith.

        Doll.

        • Tom

          Wow, your passive-aggressive hostility is red hot.

          I get it, I get it.

        • Tom

          BTW, perhaps you should refrain from antagonizing your supporters

          Sweet heart…

  • As I understand God’s revelation in the Scriptures, particularly Romans 1-3, we are all born into a state of sin. We are not sinners because we sin; rather we sin because our very natures have been corrupted by the fall and we are sinners. And, it’s not just that we have a bent to do wrong. We love our darkness and do not come to the light on our own. We suppress the knowledge of God we do have and we have an aversion of loving and honoring God. This fundamental doctrine of radical depravity instructs us that sin permeates and infects every area of our being, including our sexuality. So, in this sense, I do believe people can be born “gay” in that they are born sinners and homosexual desires and the eventual activity these lead to are just one of many ways that our sinful rebellion against God expresses itself. This in no way excuses us from the sinful activities we engage in because we know better. God’s moral code is written on our hearts. Yet, the banding together to celebrate that which God hates is common to sinful people and societies.

  • BXVI

    It is incontrovertible that a significant percentage of gay men like to have sex with underage boys. There is an entire language in the gay culture for this. Call them “chickens” or whatever. The man-boy thing is a real thing among gays.Typically, they prey on boys who are gay and who are thrilled by the experience of affection from an older man who finds them attractive. Most boys who are not gay would naturally be revolted by it the advances of a man, and would resist. Man-boy sex is imbedded in the homosexual “thing” – pederasty has been around forever.

    • Elie Challita

      It’s also very common for straight men to lust after teenaged girls, hence the huge prevalence of ‘barely legal’ as a porn category. I don’t recall similar outrage being directed at those guys from your community?

      • Wise Guy

        I’m outraged!

        Does that help?

        It’s all sin. And God calls us all to repent of all of it and to return to Him with all our hearts.

        • Tom

          Then how about just crying “Foul” when someone like BXVI tries to shovel his poop-pile of propaganda that seeks to conflate MALE homosexuality with inherent pederasty?

  • Fishcicle

    Seems to me we should be able to agree that no one older should be pushing teens to have sex, no matter of what orientation. One difficulty, I think, is that the teenage years are generally when sexual desires are very strong. In other words, a time when teens can easily make bad decisions about sex, as well as allowing themselves to be manipulated or forced into having sex. Not good for anybody, I think, generally. From my point of view, it doesn’t matter whether sexual abuse causes homosexuality or not, it shouldn’t happen to anyone of any orientation. How to stop it is another question.

  • DCM7

    Someone I knew back in the ’70s confessed to a relative of mine that he had been sexually abused by an older man, and that got him started in his “gay” lifestyle. Many years later I looked for info on him and he seemed to be fairly well known in the “gay” community. As such, he must have made the standard claim of being “born that way,” knowing it wasn’t true.

    BTW, he died in his early 40s as a direct result of his lifestyle.

    • Wise Guy

      That’s a sad story. I saw a photo of about 20 gay men all approximately in their 20’s taken in the early 1980’s. It was 1997 or 1998 when I saw it. And every man in that picture had died from AIDS related complications by the time I saw it. That was a wakeup call to the dangers of male homosexual sex for me. I always saw it as a strange thing up to that point, but this made the dangers of it apparent.

    • Angie

      Early sexual experiences don’t “turn” people gay. Your story is merely anecdotal evidence. One kid you happen to know had the experience of being molested by a man before he had come to recognize his own sexuality. That doesn’t mean it was caused by that. If that were true what explains all the molested boys who grow up to identify as heterosexual? Or the millions of happily gay men who were never molested at all? Sorry your theory doesn’t hold water because you know one gay guy who was molested. No causation here, sorry.This was a long held belief until science arrived.It’s actually been studied pretty extensively now. There’s no “there” there.Sorry, just not a fact based belief. You can go on believing it’s wrong for you and no one is asking you to be gay, too. But don’t shoot off BS that’s already been discredited hands down by people far more conscientious and capable than your self in creating experiments to test that idea and seeing it fail time after time. It’s a natural variation in human sexuality. Free Your Mind!

      • DCM7

        “If that were true what explains all the molested boys who grow up to identify as heterosexual?” — I’ve pointed out many times that experiences and environments that contribute to homosexuality wouldn’t affect just anyone the same way. Molestation is a common contributing factor to sexual confusion; it’s not a sole cause. No one would claim it *always* causes homosexuality, so you’re setting up a straw man.

        “Or the millions of happily gay men who were never molested at all?” — I don’t know how many there are (or how “happy” they really are), but I would never claim that molestation is the only factor in same-sex attraction. My onetime best friend was probably never molested at all, for example, but I could see other factors leading to his homosexuality.

        While it should be clear to anyone that no one is simply “born gay,” I accept that people who end up that way do tend to have certain natural dispositions. But they don’t end up with same-sex attractions without something going wrong — usually early on, and not always obvious.

        With both of your above questions, you’re (unwittingly) committing a very common, very subtle fallacy: citing things that are more or less accurate, but don’t actually prove what they appear to.

        The rest of what you say is just appeal-to-authority fallacy. Unfortunately you can’t just throw out words like “science” and “studied” and automatically expect to convince someone who knows better. I’m well aware — most likely far more than you — of what popular “science” currently says vs. what actual scientific knowledge really points to. There’s a lot of false, bias-driven information being sold to the public as “science” these days, and it doesn’t add to your credibility that you accept it at face value. It may be because you want to go with the flow, or because it supports what you want to believe.

  • Pofarmer

    Milo says he was already Gay at the time the abuse occured. This is twaddle.

    • DrewTwoFish

      Thank you!

  • Gary

    The sexual abuse of children is unfortunate. But it is no excuse for homosexual behavior.

    • Elie Challita

      Funny, decent people would look at it from the other direction: That homosexuality might be disagreeable to you, but that child abuse is inexcusable. Says a lot about your priorities.

      • Gary

        I’m not excusing child abuse. It should be illegal. So should homosexuality.

        • Elie Challita

          Why?

          • Gary

            Why should homosexuality be illegal? Because it is a hazard to society. It spreads disease and costs citizens a lot of money with no benefit to anyone. It also leads to the breakdown of morality in society which leads to many problems and expenses.

          • Elie Challita

            1- Not more than alcohol, or obesity. I don’t see you trying to ban cheeseburgers or bacon.
            2- How so?

          • Gary

            I would have no problem banning all recreational drugs. Lots of people live to be old eating cheeseburgers and bacon in moderation.

            An immoral society is very hard to govern and cannot be trusted to behave themselves. They are prone to hurt themselves, and others and cause a lot of problems. Hiring police and keeping people in jail is very expensive and unproductive. Those problems could be lessened if everyone would do what is right.

          • Elie Challita

            Actually obesity, smoking, and alcohol each kill more people than most drugs combined.

            How, exactly, do you expect to enforce “morality” without an extensive and all-intrusive police force? Who gets to define “morality”? And if that’s the case, do you support the US turning into Saudi Arabia?

          • Gary

            Alcohol and nicotine are recreational drugs.

            We enforce some morals now. We have laws against murder, theft, and some other things that are immoral. But, if people would police themselves and not do those things, no one else would have to police them.

            The God of the Bible defines morality. No one else has the authority to do it.

            No, I don’t want the US to be under Islamic law.

          • Elie Challita

            Why is Islamic Law any worse than Christian law, if you want to enforce your own morality?
            Assuming you decide to enforce monogamy, heterosexuality, prohibitions on drugs, etc, how will you be any different from Saudi Arabia, considering that these are literally the same laws that are enforced there.

          • Gary

            The Christian God is the definer of morality, not the Islamic god. I’m not a Muslim.

          • Elie Challita

            If you’re applying the same laws, what’s the difference?
            Saudi Arabia also bans homosexuality, recreational drugs, fornication, etc…

          • Gary

            If you are really interested, you might do a study of the differences between Christianity and islam. But you need not worry that a Christian theocracy will be employed any time soon. Eventually, it will. But first, an anti-Christian dictatorship will come along. You might like it. But it won’t last long.

          • Elie Challita

            Like I said, you want to ban the exact same thing that an Islamic theocracy is currently banning. You’re much closer to Al Qaeda than you are to the rest of us sane people.

          • Gary

            Are you sane? I doubt it. But I know you are wicked. Your support for homosexuals proves that.

          • Tom

            ^What an example of loving Christianity.

          • Wise Guy

            That’s simple. Islamic law puts homosexuals and those accused of homosexuality to death. Islamic law puts adulterers and those accused of adultery to death, and especially women who are the victims of rape.

            I don’t even know what you mean by Christian law, but there is no modern day correlation.

          • Elie Challita

            So how would you punish people, in your Christian theocracy, who broke prohibitions against homosexuality, fornication, and recreational drug use?

          • Wise Guy

            I told you I don’t even know what Christian law means, which is another way of saying I have no plans or desires for a Christian theocracy.

            Since you asked me what I would do, I would say that I would not recognize homosexual unions as being marriages, but I would not prohibit the union. I just wouldn’t want any adoption rights being conferred to people who have neither the ability nor intentions of being a mother and a father to a child. We don’t live in a day and age when heterosexual couples are unwilling and unavailable to adopt. There is a very long waiting list in many places in America.

            As for fornication, I would do away with any governmental structures and programs that encourage fornication over marriage. The welfare system discourages marriage for fornication instead. I would eliminate anything from government that discourages marriage. Marriage is what is best for children and women. Divorce and fornication are not.

            As for drugs, I would decriminalize end users in large part, but would heavily go after the traffickers to eliminate the flow of drugs into the country. I would seek to make it easier for people to get into successful rehabilitation programs so as not to be hooked on drugs for the rest of their lives.

            In other words, “in my Christian theocracy” I wouldn’t punish anybody for any of the things you mentioned. I would simply use the government’s structures and programs to promote what is best for society and individuals, especially women and children (the two categories of people that are most harmed by the things you mentioned). Everybody makes their own choices with how far they are willing for morality to impact their personal lives. Governments cannot make individuals embrace a certain form of morality, but they can stop doing things that promote people embracing harmful practices.

          • Elizabeth Putnam

            Yet heterosexual people also spread disease. No matter what your sexual orientation, if you’re sexually active there is always a possibility of getting or giving an STD to someone if you don’t practice safe sex.

          • Wise Guy

            And sadly, our society rejects the one thing that would protect it from sexually transmitted diseases: monogamous heterosexual marriage for life with lots of sex within it and no sex outside of it.

            When we live in a way that is against what we were made for, we should not expect that things would go well for us.

          • Heero_Yuy

            Wise Guy,

            I want to ask you to Google whale . to Body Pleasure and the Origins of Violence by James W. Prescott, and tell me your thoughts on that. It seems to be suggesting that the standard you are giving tends to lead to violence and abuse within a given society.

            Thank you for considering these ideas.

            Heero Yuy

          • Gary

            Yes, heterosexuals spread disease. But there is no such thing as “safe sex” between males.

          • Tom

            #Hypocrisy

            Notice that it’s always gay MALES that these people are obsessed over. Not females.

            This reveals their prejudice and bias for what it is.

        • Tom

          So you want to force the edicts of your faith on others?

          You deserve the war that would inevitably manifest as a result.

  • Mr. M

    Yeah. Reason 1,000,001 I left the church.

    • Dorrie

      I’m so sorry you were abused in church. But not all churches are like that! Will pray for you, Mr. M.

  • Liz Litts

    NO Child wants or ‘soliticts’ sexual abuse–it’s all in the head of the abuser! It seems that thinking that way gives them an out to blame someone else for their own perversion and filling their own selfish lusts.

  • Guglielmo Marinaro

    Well, it certainly didn’t contribute to mine, since I was never sexually abused.

    • Wise Guy

      Thanks for sharing. Had you had any sexual experiences prior to experiencing homosexual desires?

      • Guglielmo Marinaro

        Like so many other gay men, no.

        • Wise Guy

          One man who shared his story online mentioned how pornography initially viewed out of heterosexual lust turned into homosexual lust for him, and that was the beginning of his homosexual desires. Have you heard of that happening with others?

          I realize that both what I mentioned above and what Dr. Brown mentioned are simply anecdotal and that anecdotal evidence rates lower than most other things. Other anecdotal evidence I’ve heard of are having bad relationships with a certain parent. I don’t think these are the only explanations. I’m sure there are many who just find themselves with these desires through no fault of their own or by others’ actions and wish them gone, but they never leave.

          I would suggest that all people are sexually broken and that there are none who are pure. I would also suggest that there is a God who has standards that we all fall short of and are not excused from following. Therefore, we all need not only His mercy and forgiveness, but for Him to heal us from our brokenness or to give us the strength to act rightly as we seek to live our lives for Him. I have Christian friends who also have homosexual desires but chose to follow Christ instead of those desires. While I don’t personally have homosexual desires, I know what it is to have sexual desires that God calls sinful and both to fail miserably by giving into those desires and also to walk in the grace that God provides (not giving into those desires).

          • Heero_Yuy

            Dear Wise Guy,

            I don’t believe anecdotal evidence eahould be dismissed. My problem with Christianity is the selectivity of its anecdotal evidence. Christians are called to a higher standard, yet they often act just as the secular media dies and ignore stories from the other side. I’ve seen this with Voice of the Martyers and other publications. As a specific example, conservatives such as Sean Hannity often state that Muslims do not speak up enough about terrorism, but at the same time ignore groups and websites such as Muslims Against ISIS, Muslims Against Terror, Muslims Against Terrorism, and others.

            I realize this is unrelated, but I wanted to give you a specific example of what I am talking about.

            I have struggled and continue to struggle with this myself. But I read this entire article, published to Face book by a conservative friend, before commenting here.

            It is hard to look at the other side because it seems they distort the truth and sometimes I don’t pick up on it and get hurt. But I am trying. I hope you try as well.

            Heero Yuy

          • Wise Guy

            Heero_Yuy,

            It’s hard to make a good judgment by lumping all Christians together under the term Christianity and judging them. If we were to do that and list out the greatest faults we find, I believe my list would be much longer than yours. Why? Because the world is filled with poor thinkers. And not just poor – very poor! And just as they are found in places that you frequent and within groups you identify with, there are also many who are found in places I frequent and within groups I identify with. But that’s picking only on the worst apples when there are many more apples in the bushel.

            I won’t ignore your evidence if you’d like to present some. Islam is a mixed bag. There are nice, sweet friendly people and there are murderous terrorists and those who approve in every way of the murderous terrorists. They all exist. My friend was one of the nice, sweet friendly ones and he was murdered for a terrorist. He spoke out against terrorism. Another one does the same. Meanwhile, actual terrorists are in America scheming to kill multitudes of innocent non-Muslims because they are infidels, as was the case this past week in a town nearby where I live. Thankfully, his plot was foiled, but his evil schemes were not without support in Islamic “holy” books.

            Maybe I did not read what you wrote very well, what exactly is your struggle? Christians being not very wise or fair to evidence, homosexual desire, or something else?

            If the second, I would say that I struggle with illicit sexual desire myself. I don’t embrace it, but struggle or, as the Bible would say, strive against it. Those desires are to look at women lustfully, to fantasize about them in my mind, etc. I don’t want these desires. I only want to have desires for my wife (which I do have) and for no one else. I was not sexually abused as a child. I was not mistreated nor did I have a bad relationship with my father or mother. It was not pornography that got me to that point. These just seem to be the desires that come naturally to me. As I pointed out above, my explanation for my unholy thoughts and desires is not simply that I am a sinner (though I admittedly am one and a terrible one at that) but that I am also a broken human being, broken by the Fall in every way, and am quite incapable of changing myself. I need God the Healer every day. And I would add that I experience His rich mercy and grace and healing quite regularly. The fact that I know so much about God but am still not able to master my own soul keeps me rather humble about myself, but the fact that Jesus, the “Physician” of our souls, has dealt mercifully and gently with me gives me great confidence in Him and before others.

          • Heero_Yuy

            Wise Guy, thank you for your kind and gentoe response.

            Ok. Well. First I would point out that it is Muslims who are one of the if not the biggest victims of terrorism. Please Google Muslims Against Terror the World cannot continue to ignore:

            http: // muslimsagainstterror . com

            /the-world-cannot-continue-to-ignore-the-massacre-of-over-2000-in-the-muslim-town-of-baga-in-north-nigeria-muslimlivesmatter/

            Second, I would like to recommend you Google the following:

            Unclobber (and look at the videos)

            Stop Bible Abuse

            Gay Christian 101

            There are others, but I have not looked at them extensively yet:

            Walking the Bridge less Canyon

            YouTube The Reformation Project

            Third, yes, I have a mate. He and I are both furries. We love each other very much. I will always love him, for as long as he wants to be with me. I hope it is for life.

            Fourth, the reason I say Sin is an illusion is that it makes sense to me and I interpret the Bible from a New Thought as well as a Process Church of the Final Judgement as well as Gnostic Perspective.

            Google XIX the Bible and New Thought sacred texts.

            Google Truth Unity . org

            I realize this perspective is hated by most of modern Christianity, and I do not state my beliefs to provoke you to anger, but because I believe it is The truth.

            Finally, in relation to this article, I suggest the following:

            Facts about Homosexuality and Child Molestation Psychology UC Davis.

            I am reading it currently and the article it references, to get both sides.

            Heero Yuy

          • glenbo

            >”I know what it is to have sexual desires that God calls sinful and both to fail miserably by giving into those desires and also to walk in the grace that God provides”<
            One cannot declare homosexuality immoral without reason to do so.
            Belief in a non-existent imaginary god is not sufficient reason to declare homosexuality immoral.

          • Wise Guy

            Calling God a non-existent imaginary god is not sufficient reason for God to suddenly cease to exist or to do away with His standards. God exists. In fact, God is the only explanation that works for the existence of anything. I get the fact that difficult questions may surround God’s existence, but our existence and our universe’s existence can only be satisfactorily explained by a wise, powerful, personal God who exercised great care in bringing things into existence.

            If I could prove to you the Christian God exists, would you follow Him?

          • Gary

            No, he wouldn’t. In time, he will believe God is real. But it will be too late to be of any benefit to him.

          • Heero_Yuy

            Dear Gary,

            I wanted to share the following with you:

            While reflecting upon the parental love of God, a story came to mind that I read some months ago. In this story a man who was entirely careless of spiritual things died and went to hell. And he was much missed on earth by his old friends. His business manager went down to the gates of hell to see if there were any chance of bringing him back. But, though he pleaded for the gates to be opened, the iron bars never yielded. His cricket captain went also and besought Satan to let him out just for the remainder of the season. But there was no response. His minister went also and argued, saying, “He was not altogether bad. Let him have another chance. Let him out just this once.” Many other friends of his went also and pleaded with Satan saying, “Let him out, let him out, let him out.” But when his mother came, she spoke no word of his release. Quietly, and with a strange catch in her voice, she said to Satan, “Let me in.” And immediately the great doors swung open upon their hinges. For love goes down through the gates of hell and there redeems the damned! Our Father and God, incarnate in the Person of Jesus Christ, holds in His nail-pierced hand the keys of death and hell. O grave, where is Your victory? O gates of hell, you shall not prevail, for the Redeemer of Israel and the Saviour of the world, the God who IS LOVE holds in His triumphant hand your key!

            God Is Love, by J. Preston Eby

            Heero Yuy

          • Gary

            According to the Bible, once in Hell, always in Hell. Redemption happens while one is living on earth, or it never happens.

          • Heero_Yuy

            Gary,

            That isn’t true.

            24 and the nations of the saved in its light shall walk, and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it,

            Important:

            25 and its gates shall not at all be shut by day, for night shall not be there;

            26 and they shall bring the glory and the honour of the nations into it;

            Revelation 21 YLT Bible Gateway

            God’s will is for all to be Saved:

            22 for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive,

            28 and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all.

            1 Corinthians 15 YLT Bible Gateway

            1I exhort, then, first of all, there be made supplications, prayers, intercessions, thanksgivings, for all men: 2for kings, and all who are in authority, that a quiet and peaceable life we may lead in all piety and gravity,
            Important:
            3for this [is] right and acceptable before God our Saviour, 4who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth; 5for one [is] God, one also [is] mediator of God and of men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who did give himself a ransom for all — the testimony in its own times — 7in regard to which I was set a preacher and apostle — truth I say in Christ, I do not lie — a teacher of nations, in faith and truth.

            1 Timothy 2 Bible Hub

            Weymouth New Testament
            It follows then that just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which extends to the whole race, so also the result of a single decree of righteousness is a life-giving acquittal which extends to the whole race.

            Young’s Literal Translation
            So, then, as through one offence to all men it is to condemnation, so also through one declaration of ‘Righteous’ it is to all men to justification of life;

            Romans 5:18 Bible Hub YLT and Weymouth New Testament

            46 And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian.”

            Matthew 25 Concordant Literal Version

            I encourage you to go to the following website:

            Google: Biblical Universalism . com

            It contains much better and more complete arguments than I can give in this comment.

            Heero Yuy

          • Gary

            The Bible does not teach universal salvation. You’re a fool for believing it does. It is VERY likely that YOU will end up in Hell. Forever.

          • Heero_Yuy

            Gary,

            I love you and bless you, and I bless the truth I have spoken, as it is written:
            25because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men; 26for see your calling, brethren, that not many [are] wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble;
            27but the foolish things of the world did God choose, that the wise He may put to shame; and the weak things of the world did God choose that He may put to shame the strong; 28and the base things of the world, and the things despised did God choose, and the things that are not, that the things that are He may make useless — 29that no flesh may glory before Him; 30and of Him ye — ye are in Christ Jesus, who became to us from God wisdom, righteousness also, and sanctification, and redemption, 31that, according as it hath been written, ‘He who is glorying — in the Lord let him glory.’

            1 Corinthians 1 YLT Bible Hub

            Heero Yuy

          • Wise Guy

            He answered as much. You can see his comment in the discussion.

          • glenbo

            >”God exists.””If I could prove to you the Christian God exists, would you follow Him?”<
            I could NEVER respect never mind "follow" someone that condones slavery, rape and the murder of children.
            I don't understand how anyone could…unless you live in a moral vacuum.

          • Wise Guy

            Thank you for answering honestly. I assumed as much. The reason you would not follow God is because you hate God.

          • glenbo

            >”The reason you would not follow God is because you hate God.”<
            Why do you hate Leprechauns? Unicorns?
            And the Keebler Elves?
            Why do you hate Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the tooth fairy?

          • Wise Guy

            I don’t. I don’t get emphatic about them at all. But if I did go on rants about them not existing and talk about how Santa Claus is a total lie in conversations with strangers, I would be willing to reconsider my stance if a stranger offered me sound, reasonable evidence for their existence.

            And I hope you would reconsider your stance as well if the same happened to you.

          • glenbo

            >” I would be willing to reconsider my stance if a stranger offered me sound, reasonable evidence for their existence.”<
            Well then. We are now in the same boat.
            You hate my Leprechaun friend, and I hate your invisible god.
            Perhaps you can resolve this by offering me "sound, reasonable evidence" for the existence of God.

          • Wise Guy

            >”I could NEVER respect never mind “follow” someone that condones… I don’t understand how anyone could…”<

            That's how you responded to my question “If I could prove to you the Christian God exists, would you follow Him?”

            It’s not that I think you’re not worth the effort – quite the contrary. It’s that you’ve admitted that if the proof were overwhelming for the existence of the Christian God, then you still wouldn’t follow Him. That admission combined with the words from the God you don’t believe in (the God who is there) would seem to indicate that there isn’t much point in me sharing information with you that you’ve already decided to reject.

            “And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.” – Hebrews 11:6

            “You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.” – Jeremiah 29:13

            I would highly encourage you change the stance in your heart and mind.

            “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble… Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Be wretched and mourn and weep. Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will exalt you.”
            – James 4:6,8-10

            “Seek the Lord while he may be found;
            call upon him while he is near;
            let the wicked forsake his way,
            and the unrighteous man his thoughts;
            let him return to the Lord, that he may have compassion on him,
            and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
            For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
            neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord.
            For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
            so are my ways higher than your ways
            and my thoughts than your thoughts.”
            – Isaiah 55:6-9

          • glenbo

            >”there isn’t much point in me sharing information with you that you’ve already decided to reject.”<
            Why don't you give me your best shot.
            If you have some missing "information" that is convincing, I am all ears.
            let's hear it.

          • Wise Guy

            I wouldn’t call anything I have missing information. I have a reasonable interpretation of existing information.

            First, do you agree that the universe (time, space, matter, and energy) had a beginning?

          • glenbo

            >”I wouldn’t call anything I have missing information. I
            have a reasonable interpretation of existing information.””First, do you agree that the universe (time, space,
            matter, and energy) had a beginning?”<

            I will gladly answer this question when you answer mine
            above about where you get the “missing information.”

          • Wise Guy

            “If you have some missing “information” that is convincing, I am all ears. Let’s hear it.”

            You sound as if you’ve changed your tune. If you’re going to reject God at all costs, there isn’t much point in continuing, is there?

            I’d recommend you don’t make too many assumptions. I didn’t mention the Bible. You did. I freely admit I believe the Bible. Shocker, right? Yet, I did not bring it up.

            Back to the question, do you agree that the universe (time, space, matter, and energy) had a beginning?

          • glenbo

            >” I didn’t mention the Bible. You did. I freely admit I believe the Bible. Shocker, right? Yet, I did not bring it up.”<
            You didn't???
            Go back 3 posts, sir.
            Now you are just being dishonest.
            You loose credibility when you don't back up claims and play games.

          • Gary

            Yes, it is. But if there is no God, then NOTHING is objectively immoral. Or moral.

          • glenbo

            >” if there is no God, then NOTHING is objectively immoral. Or moral.”<
            Why is slavery immoral?

          • Gary

            If you are talking about the kind of slavery practiced in the US before the civil war, that was immoral because God said so. Those people were kidnapped, which God condemns, and forced to work for people they did not have any obligation to, which God also condemns.

          • glenbo

            Jesus Christ, dude. READ your damn bible.

            Do you need help? I can show you MANY horrible slavery verses.

            Beating, killing them, buying them and tricking them.

            http://www.skepticsannotatedbible. com/topics/slavery.html

            http://skepticsannotatedbible. com/says_about/slavery.html

            Delete the space between the dot and com and paste to your browser.
            Will you friggin’ educate yourself???

          • Gary

            Even if it is as you say, and it isn’t, you have no reason to think slavery, assault, or killing are immoral. There is no basis for immorality in atheism. Morality can only exist if there is a God to define what it is. If there is no God, then there can be no such thing as morality.

          • glenbo

            >”Even if it is as you say, and it isn’t,”<
            Even if what is???

          • Elizabeth Putnam

            I’m bisexual. I was never sexually abused as a child or young teenager. I still turned out bisexual. I’ve never been into porn just because it doesn’t do anything for me. I was in a two year relationship with a guy previous to me being involved with a woman. My ex was a good person.

          • Wise Guy

            Thanks for sharing, Elizabeth. I personally think men are more susceptible to pornography because we seem to be wired more for visual stimulation. That is not to say that women don’t find visual appeal – they certainly do. It’s just not to the level that most men experience it. When you say you “turned out” bisexual, was there any sort of process to it for you? What I mean is, did you wake up suddenly one day desiring women or did you find the desires gradually coming on?

          • Guglielmo Marinaro

            No, I have not heard of that happening with others. I treat stories of people being turned homosexual by pornography with severe scepticism. (Which is not to say that I approve of pornography of any kind; I don’t.) It has not been uncommon in the past for people, especially younger people, who cannot come to terms with their homosexual orientation to try to change it to a heterosexual one by using heterosexual pornography. I dare say that some are still trying it. They invariably fail. I see no reason to believe that the opposite process is any more likely of success. Whatever, no such “explanation” applies to me.

            While both heterosexual and homosexual people can be and sometimes are tempted by desires to do things that are wrong, and which they need to resist, I do not believe that homosexual desires per se are any more sinful or “broken” than heterosexual ones.

          • Wise Guy

            I guess a little more explanation of that man’s story would be helpful. It was on a website dedicated to helping people find sexual purity in a sexually impure world (pornography, as you seem to also understand it, is one of those impure things). Although it’s been almost twenty years ago since I found this website, his story stood out to me as a possibility I had never considered and admittedly scared me a bit (not because I had those desires but because I feared I could develop them). His story was that he was a full-blooded heterosexual male with a big sexual appetite that he followed into spending countless hours of watching porn and masturbation. He said he started with soft core pornography and found that he “needed” more, so he got into hard core pornography. He was getting his kicks from watching the women, but eventually that transitioned to also deriving pleasure from watching the men. I don’t remember if he ended up not desiring women in the end or if he simply ended up with sexual desires for both men and women. And it went from viewing onscreen sexual acts to sexual acts in person. But, the moral of the story as he put it was that his out of control appetite for pornography and following those desires for sexual pleasure are how he found himself hooked on and trapped by every manner of sexual sin (biblically defined).

            Out of curiosity, why do you disapprove of pornography? That seems somewhat counterintuitive to me. From my experiences in talking with gay people, I have come to expect a near blanket approval of almost any form of sexual expression. Do you find yourself in somewhat of a minority on that?

            I appreciate you sharing your story and what you know of others’ stories with me. I find people don’t generally want to have this conversation with me face to face because it’s either too personally embarrassing for them to share it or they fear I would judge them. I really just want to understand people better.

          • Guglielmo Marinaro

            I believe that sexual behaviour should be the expression of love between partners. The danger of pornography is that it is not only a distraction from that, but can easily become a substitute for it, sometimes an addictive one. That is why I do not regard it as something to be encouraged.

          • Wise Guy

            I like your answer. It is a cheap substitute for something that is exceedingly better. It’s a knock-off that promises much but delivers little compared to what we were made for.

            I would add that this is the inherent nature of all things God calls “sin.” While they may be pleasurable for a season, they inhibit us from experiencing the fullness of the blessings we were created to receive. Promising much, they deliver pitifully little compared to what would be ours if we lived in accordance with what we were made for and Him who made us.

          • Gary

            Then you don’t believe the Bible.

  • RevBill

    Correlation is not causation.

    • Wise Guy

      No, but simply saying that doesn’t mean that this correlation can’t also be causation.

      • DrewTwoFish

        Which move things forward not one whit.

        It is dangerous and lazy to come to a firm conclusion about things from correlation in isolation.

        • Wise Guy

          True, but it is likewise dangerous and lazy to recognize that correlation does not equal causation while likewise dismissing the possibility that a specific identified correlation could, therefore, not also be causative.

          I don’t think there is one cause for homosexuality to be found. There may very well be, but it is my non-scientific belief that there are likely multiple reasons people end up with homosexual desires. I say “non-scientific” because as far as I know there have been no true experiments or studies performed that have been able to reproducibly identify even one cause for homosexuality. If you believe in a once perfect but now fallen universe (the Christian explanation), then I don’t know why it is so hard to envision that every aspect of our psyche (as well as the rest of our physical existence) is somehow adversely affected from the effects of the Fall. Therefore, while it is evident that male and female are meant to go together, the “wiring” of our desires is faulty (or broken) and not working as it once would have, so there are those whose desires do not reflect the initial design. Actually, all of us have desires that are out of step with the antecedents for which they were created. I don’t see why homosexual desires would be any different.

          • Heero_Yuy

            God works through the fall. God works through each heart and mind saying yes to what we believe and then letting us experience the consequences. Sin is illusion. Loving another being is greater than illusion.

            I love you as I love all beings.

            As it is, so be it.

            Heero Yuy

          • Wise Guy

            Yes, God works through the Fall. Jesus became cursed Himself to redeem us from the curse of the Fall. He sacrificially gave His own life to rescue us from the wrath we deserve for our sin-filled rebellion against God by absorbing that wrath in Himself and removing it from everyone who believes in Him. His body was broken and His blood was poured out so we would never suffer God’s punishment. He became sin so that we could become children of God. God certainly works through the Fall.

            And God does work when we say “yes” to Him and put our trust in Jesus and turn to Him with all our hearts while turning away from the things He calls sin. As for sin being an illusion, I am not the One who decides that. And based on everything I have read and understand, sin is willful rebellion against God and His commandments which He has written on our hearts via our consciences (how we innately understand it is wrong to murder and steal). God’s commands express His character. We shouldn’t murder because He is the Author of life. We shouldn’t steal because He is the God who gives. We shouldn’t covet others’ possessions because He is not covetous but generous. We should honor Him with one day out of seven set aside for worship because He has honored us by creating us and giving us time on this Earth. We should honor our parents because they in a very small way act as His representatives by loving and caring for us as He likewise honorably loves and cares for us.

            Now, the person who loves God with all His heart, soul, mind, and strength and loves his neighbor as he loves himself is the person who has understood the most important concept: love is the fulfillment of all of God’s commands. They are all designed to point us to love God and love people. If I love God, I will not misuse His holy name. If I love my wife, I will not commit adultery. If I love you, I will not lie to you or falsely accuse you. Love is the greatest thing we can do. Truth is the greatest thing we can believe.

            Love to you my friend.

  • Wise Guy

    There are probably many causes. This may very well be one of them. However, God did not make any of us to be gay or anything other than heterosexually and lovingly committed to and sexually joined to one partner for life. All the brokenness in this world is a result of mankind turning from God to follow our own pursuits (i.e. “The Fall”), though it is not necessarily the result of the individual turning from God. Everyone is a sexual sinner in need of The Savior, and none of us can claim we are without sin and, therefore, without need of The Savior. We all have to turn from sexual sin – no matter if our orientation is heterosexual sin or homosexual sin – and turn to the Lord in repentance and faith. For the heterosexual this means repenting of lust and turning away from images and thoughts and acts that are outside of a lifelong, committed heterosexual marriage to one partner for life. For the homosexual this means repenting of lust and turning away from images and thoughts and acts that are outside of a lifelong, committed, heterosexual marriage to one partner for life.

    We are all fallen and all broken and all in need of the healing hand of God. And there is a God who will ultimately bring the healing we seek when we seek it in Him. We may not see this healing until we check out of this broken world, but only those who turn to Him will ever experience His healing and it will be everlasting. Those who love their sin more than God will only ever experience brokenness and it will be everlasting.

    • The Wickerman

      Keep your fantasy stories of angry, vindictive sky-wizards out of the conversations of adults.
      If you want to believe that garbage, go right ahead, but it has absolutely no merit.
      Preach your hate and goofy crap elsewhere.

      • Foster

        doesn’t that sand smother you?

        • The Wickerman

          No sand! No sand! You’re the sand!

          • Foster

            truth hurts, i know

      • Wise Guy

        That was not very persuasive. Or scientific. Or winsome. Apparently you believe in eternal universes?

        • The Wickerman

          I don’t need or desire to convince anyone to believe anything. If these stories work for you, then enjoy them. Just don’t tell others that what you believe is the truth when there is no proof to back you up.

          • Wise Guy

            If your story of a self-creating universe works for you, then enjoy them. Just don’t tell others that what you believe is the truth when there is no proof to back you up.

          • The Wickerman

            Excellent “I Know You Are But What Am I?” answer.
            I don’t profess to know any truth. But as an adult, you should be able to spot fiction when you read it.

          • Wise Guy

            For your benefit I will underline all the truth claims in your original statement to me and bolden all your evaluations of those truth claims:

            “Keep your fantasy stories of angry, vindictive sky-wizards out of the conversations of adults.
            If you want to believe that garbage, go right ahead, but it has absolutely no merit. [Is that true?]
            Preach your hate and goofy crap elsewhere.”

            For someone who doesn’t “profess to know any truth,” you certainly seem happy to go around and tell others what is and is not true.

            I can spot fiction when I read it. A self-creating or an eternal universe is abjectly fictitious. It belongs to the genre of fantasy.

          • The Wickerman

            Gosh, you Sky-Wizard worshippers sure do spend a lot of time defending your goofy stories, it’s almost as if you have no actual proof and just get mad that people point out the silliness of them. And here you could be gaining favour by telling the wizard how great and awesome he is, assuring your eventual lodging in a solid-gold palace in the sky.

          • Wise Guy

            Mad? I’m not mad. I’m cool, calm, and collected. Most people probably do get mad when they disagree. On this subject, it is rare that I would get perturbed. I get it. People don’t want God to exist because of the inherent consequences that accompany His existence, so they will do or say anything to discredit even the thought of Him. I was probably that way once myself. It doesn’t really bother me, even if it is stated in a condescending tone (such as the way you spoke in a belittling way of my faith in God), because I understand that it is not me that people oppose as much as it is God. As for defending my story, I don’t recall defending it. I did attack the alternatives ever so slightly. Truth matters. And that’s all I’ve concerned myself with during our brief and interesting conversation. I hope for you that truth for truth’s sake will one day matter as well and that you will be willing to part ways with every false idea for the sake of absolute truth.

            I would like to point out that the God of the Christians does not impart favour in response to receiving worship nor does He grant Heaven due to either our worship or service. Both His favour and Heaven are given as a free gift that He gives to guilty sinners (such as me) who turn from living for themselves and their sins and turn to Him, and it is all because of the righteous life of Jesus and His substitutionary sacrifice of Himself (in our place). God’s favour and promise of eternal life are given to me, not earned by me, because He was fully pleased by the life of His Son who fully paid the penalty of my sins by His death on a cross.

            And while I am fully aware that you do not believe any of the above paragraph, I have witnessed God transform even the hardest of hearts by the truths in that paragraph. I have asked the Lord to surprise you by His grace as well.

          • The Wickerman

            There will be no surprise. I spent years going to bible studies, I belonged to the Logos Christian Fellowship, Campus Crusade for Christ, “witnessed”, went to a “speaking in tongues” church to see what that was all about, etc. etc.
            Then I grew up and realized that organized religion and yes, even Christianity was a man-created myth that has been used throughout history to control people. Too many holes in the stories, too many contradictions, and all these big religions profess to know the one true way to whatever “reward” awaits those who follow the steps to their “eternal reward”.
            And I’m not an atheist at all. Feel free to preach this stuff to whoever will listen to it.
            I guess you don’t realize how weird all that sin and grace and sacrifice stuff really sounds. Enjoy it, I’ll be fine.

          • Wise Guy

            For your sake, I can only hope you are right. I can’t change what I believe so easily as the beginning of my testimony of coming to faith involves a God-experience at a specific time in a specific place (and a rather unlikely one without spiritual expectations being much of a factor, and not at all in my case) and four witnesses (myself being one of them) to something I could only describe as too great to have been anything other than God. I was more than a bit surprised to hear two other people corroborate they too had identical experiences at the exact moment I had in the exact place I had and that a third person had actually seen Jesus Christ in the same room at the same moment. In other words, 4 people independently witnessed or experienced the presence of God in that room. I’m sure you can think of 10,000 objections to it, but I know what I experienced and that psychological factors such as spiritual expectation aren’t able to account for it all. Heck, I was asleep when it happened and was awakened by it. Of course, couple that with what happened a year later – a very dramatic and instantaneous and lasting transformation of the dark recesses of my soul that coincided with the first time I ever cried out to God for mercy and asked Jesus to come into my life (at this point in my life I had never heard of such a thing and didn’t know it was what you were “supposed” to do to become a Christian… I just felt the need for forgiveness and finally understood the message of the cross) – and I really have a hard time with the thought of walking away from the faith. My ongoing experience is of God being near (the same God who had always seemed so far off and unreachable before He brought me to faith… I wasn’t really looking), but nothing like that initial experience.

            I am curious though, what made you come to the conclusion that Christianity was a man-created myth. There must have been a process to it as opposed to waking up on Tuesday not believing everything you held dear on Monday.

          • The Wickerman

            Whatever works for you, people have “seen” aliens, The Virgin Mary floating around, various versions of “The Devil”, all kinds of things. I’ve seen UFOs and ghosts. And I’m not going to bore anyone with why I believe or don’t believe in whatever. Of course it was an involved process, but just like you having a magical moment, I had one too. And it involved no longer buying the bible stories. End of story, if this christianity thing happens to be “the only way” then I should be fine having been “born again” at one time, right? Just like someone can murder and torture thousands of beings all their life and at the last second “accept the lord” and be welcomed into “heaven”, me being a pretty good person all my life and then becoming a “born again christian” and then deciding “nahhh.. not my deal anymore man” I still should have my Free Pass to Eternal Gold Mansions etc.

  • george

    Romans 1 can not be used against same sex attracted people.
    SSA people know from very childhood they are same sex attracted. Many christian men and women have prayed and cried out to God day and night but they got no answer. We SSA people never rejected God.
    If romans 1 is truth, than all idol worshippers would of been lgbt, because they worship creatures instead of the creator. But they are not gays.
    There are atheists who rejected God , but they are not gays.
    Hop you understand what I mean.
    Romans 1 doesn’t work.

    • Gary

      Homosexuality is immoral, according to the Bible. There is no way around that.

      • Redie Armon Jr

        True, Rom 1:28 says that God gave them over to this spirit of a reprobate mind, which is a diabolical spirit from satan to send confusion to a person that has allowed themselves to be open to this spirit. A spirit can not just take a person over without a person giving this spirit the authority by embracing it instead of confronting it. And from the article most people who have been caught up in this life style never ever tell on their abuser because they have been told not to tell anyone or they will get themselves and the person who abused them in trouble. So they live with this until they have been convinced that its okay and that their is nothing wrong trying to put the trauma behind them, but instead of doing just that, they end up drawing to more people caught up with the same problem and then they give themselves over to this spirit, and convince themselves that this lie is normal and that they were born this way, which contradicts the proof from the article. Many people have been delivered, healed and set free from this life style by the Power of The Spirit of God.

        • Tim A

          I suggest you start reading the passage at Romans 1:18 to get a full understand of what Paul is talking about in this section of Romans. Also, you might want to read the opening verses of Romans 2.

          • Redie Armon Jr

            Tim A – I think you need to read that chapter again yourself and see how it builds on the progression of sin, then the nature of sin, then from disobeying G-d and the consequences of the person’s actions from Rom 1:17-32. Maybe you are not a Christian or a G-d Fearer, I don’t know, but G-d nor those the scriptures support belief’s that are contrary to His nature as Creator.

          • Tim A

            So let’s break it down:

            Starting at verse 18 (NIV):

            “18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.”

            God is angry at people who suppress the truth, because the truth is so plainly revealed in everyday life.

            “21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.”

            Even though they know who God is, they worshiped idols.

            “24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.”

            So God let these idol worshipers degrade themselves with sexual acts that were not natural for these people.

            “28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.”

            And we conclude Romans 1 with a nice long list of what God allowed these people to do. But let’s not stop here. After all, Paul’s letter was not initially written in chapters. That came much later for our collective benefit. So, going into Romans 2:

            “1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.”

            Wait… what is that? Do not pass judgement on those people he was just writing about?? Why would this be here?

            “2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?
            5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.”

            I like Romans 2:5 — “because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself”

            Peace be with you, brother. I pray you get to know your gay brothers and sisters for who they are. Judging them while keeping them at arms length will only bring God’s wrath upon yourself… and I wish that on nobody, not even Michael Brown; though I fear he may to ingrained in his own theology that he does not see the people he is hurting.

          • Tim A

            I agree. It IS a progression. First, people turned their backs on God and started worshiping idols (Romans 1:18-23). Then God gave them over to their sinful desires, because they no longer worshiped Him (Romans 1:24-32). However, the next thing that follows (Romans 2:1) is a rebuke about judging the people Paul was writing about in Romans 1, clearly stating that by judging others you condemn yourself. The entire point of Romans 1 is to set you up so Paul could slap you in the face with your own arrogance in Romans 2.

          • glenbo

            How does one determine the bible is true?

    • Redie Armon Jr

      Your statements contradict the research in the article, which has been known in the 50’s and 60’s when clinical sciences interviewed children that had been abused and went into this life style back then. The information was suppressed by the homosexual community during that time, they had no answer for trying to say that they were born this way, and no medical doctor has ever confirmed this to be the case as well, in fact many have concluded that their is no such Genetic or DNA strand or Cell comprised at birth or during the birth cycle. Rom 1:28 says that God gave them over to this spirit of a reprobate mind, which is a diabolical spirit from satan to send confusion to a person that has allowed themselves to be open to this spirit. A spirit can not just take a person over without a person giving this spirit the authority by embracing it instead of confronting it. And from the article most people who have been caught up in this life style never ever tell on their abuser because they have been told not to tell anyone or they will get themselves and the person who abused them in trouble. So they live with this until they have been convinced that its okay and that their is nothing wrong trying to put the trauma behind them, but instead of doing just that, they end up drawing to more people caught up with the same problem and then they give themselves over to this spirit, and convince themselves that this lie is normal and that they were born this way, which contradicts the proof from the article. Many people have been delivered, healed and set free from this life style by the Power of The Spirit of God. The scriptures says “God cannot lie, and let God be true, but every man a liar.

      • Redie Armon Jr

        Reprobate Greek – adokimos (αδόκιμος) signifying “not standing the test, rejected’ (a. negative, dokimos, “approved”), (b) of a person Rom 1:28, of a reprobate mind,” a mind of which God cannot approve, and which must be rejected by Him, the effect of refusing, “to have God in their knowledge”; to be cast or rejected, men whose moral sense is perverted and whose mind is beclouded with their own speculations.

        • Tim A

          The Hebrew word in Leviticus is to’evah — I suggest you look that one up.

      • Elizabeth Putnam

        The study would not be taken seriously today because it is over 50 years old. Also I’m bisexual, I’m attracted to both men and women. Yet I was never sexually abused as a child or a teenager. I know many other LGBTQ+ people who are the same way as me.

  • Foster

    We are all born with sin of Adam on our hands. Yes the sins of the father do revisit the next generations, but it’s not hopeless, there is a way out. Though my sins are scarlet they will be made white as snow.

  • gigi4747

    I follow Robert oscar Lopez and he has asked conservatives not to refer to him as “ex-gay.” He claims that he is bisexual. I think he is gay, honestly. My own thoughts on this issue is that even if people are not born gay, it does not follow that homosexuality can be cured. It is probably a psychiatric disease (there is also a correlation between psych illnesses and abuse, in my experience) and there are very few if any psych diseases that are curable.

    • george

      Are you gay?

      • gigi4747

        Lol do you mean happy? Very!

    • Elizabeth Putnam

      Who are you to say who is gay and who isn’t? If Robert Oscar Lopez calls himself bisexual then he is bisexual.

      • gigi4747

        Who am I to have an opinion? Next question, please.

  • glenbo

    From the above article I quote:

    >”there are plenty of gay men who were never abused and
    plenty of straight men who were abused as boys and never turned gay”

    What about homosexual girls/women? Any “research” on how
    they became homosexual?
    This statement renders the entire point of this article ludicrous
    and meritless in determining how society is to treat LGBT people especially
    LGBT youth in general as a whole.

    >”As for the notion that people are born gay, not only
    would that suggest that infants can relate to the concepts of sexual and
    romantic attraction (which they obviously cannot), but it would also ignore the
    fact that our upbringing and environment have profound effects on us.””Every single gay person I know has some sort of drama
    going on””all the professional counselors I have spoken with
    (including trained pastors and psychologists or psychiatrists) have told me
    that the vast number of gays they have counseled were sexually abused as minors””we strongly oppose sex-based LGBT curricula in the
    schools”<

    Again, manipulative fear-invoking words…how do you get from
    diversity acceptance to “sex-based?”
    This curriculum teaches diversity and respect for those who
    are different from us. It makes no sense to eliminate it unless the agenda is
    to continue stigmatizing LGBT children. (Duh) This hypocritical message…’we
    want our LGBT people to be treated well, so let’s eliminate teaching others to
    respect them’… makes no sense.
    But what truly doesn’t make sense is the overall point being
    made in the above article:

    ‘Many LGBT children were abused, so let’s respond by denying
    them rights and teaching their peers that they are not to be accepted and respected.’
    In other words, the lives of LGBT people suck…so let’s do the Christian thing
    by making their lives even MORE unbearable. It sickens me that LGBT children
    are seen only from a sexual or “sex-based” point of view and not from a human
    being point of view. Why must the religious right see children as sexual
    objects or sex representatives and not as fellow humans? How creepy is that? This
    takes being creepy beyond creepiness.

    This woman does not belong in any advisory position
    especially involving children.

    Compassion: Absent.
    Love: Absent.
    Empathy: Absent.
    Knowledge: Absent.
    Vision: Creepy.
    Logic: FAIL.

    • Redie Armon Jr

      No one was created this way on the contrary, Reprobate Greek – adokimos (αδόκιμος) signifying “not standing the test, rejected’ (a. negative, dokimos, “approved”), (b) of a person Rom 1:28, of a reprobate mind,” a mind of which God cannot approve, and which must be rejected by Him, the effect of refusing, “to have God in their knowledge”; to be cast or rejected, men whose moral sense is perverted and whose mind is beclouded with their own speculations. In the OT – Lev 18:22; God calls this behavior and life style “an Abomination to Him”, and the Hebrew word for “abomination” means in reference to God as Creator, describes people, things, acts, relationships, and characteristics that are “detestable” to Him, because they are contrary to “His nature as Creator”. In the NT homosexual life style is called many other things that a lot of people miss when reading the scriptures. Its called: unseemly, to defile, unrighteousness, effeminate, etc. Medical Science even testifies against your opinion about evidence otherwise, and the article already mentioned that no all who have been abused turn out homosexual, it seems you have a selective bias toward the things you like in the article as opposed to the things you don’t like, you can’t have it both ways, this info has been know in the 50’s and 60’s when clinical sciences interviewed men & woman who had been sexually abused and were struggling with this life style of homosexuality and lesbianism.

      • glenbo

        >” a mind of which God cannot approve, and which must be rejected by Him”” Medical Science even testifies against your opinion
        about evidence otherwise”<

        Proof, please.

        • Heero_Yuy

          Glenbo,

          I don’t believe being Gay is evil. In fact my mate is a guy. However I do believe in God and I think there is evidence of your existence. You and everything are apart of God.

          I believe that Dr. Anton Bechamp, and Dr. Wilhelm Reich, when viewed together, provide evidence of God’s existence.

          Please Google: whale . to Dr. Wilhelm Reich

          Please Google Orgone Labs . org because a scientist there has done confirmatory work on the original studies done by Dr. Reich on the life force

          Please Google: Pasteur or Bechamp PDF

          The best way to determine God’s existence is through direct knowing, philosophical arguments get us nowhere. I think John Loftus and Ayn Rand have already shown that. I believe that the external evidence can lead one to look inside for that inner knowing.

          I love you as I love all beings. I appreciate your comment and look forward to talking to you again in the future.

          Heero Yuy

          • glenbo

            >”The best way to determine God’s existence is through direct knowing,”<
            I disagree.
            By your standard, Leprechauns exist.
            You gotta do better than that.

          • Heero_Yuy

            Glenbo

            If you don’t wish to use personal experience, then at least use the other evidence I have provided. Make those Google searches and tell me what you find. I would provide links for you, but this can’t besumarized by a brief quote as I do below and when I provide direct links my comments are not allowed to be posted.

            I don’t really understand why you would attack direct personal experience. It is the basis for all science. In was reading about Charles Darwin the other day, and so many of his theories came from personal observations and even input to him by other people, and many common people.

            I think the following is also relevant:

            Argument # 4: The Invisible Pink Unicorn / Santa Claus gambit

            Stated as: “Of course I can’t prove that God, spirits, UFO’s, paranormal phenomena or metaphysical realities don’t exist, but you can’t prove to me that invisible pink unicorns and Santa Claus don’t exist either, but that doesn’t mean that they are real.”

            This ridiculous comparison tactic is notoriously common among pseudoskeptics, yet so severely flawed and ludicrous that you have to wonder about the sanity of the person using it. It basically lumps all paranormal phenomena in the same category as anything a skeptic makes up out of thin air. It is more of a belittling tactic than a reasoned argument. Other similar variations of this are “you can’t prove to me that there wasn’t a dragon hiding in my garage either” and “ you can’t prove to me that little green gremlins aren’t stealing pennies from my pockets either,” etc.

            The premise behind this argument is that if a claim is unprovable, then it’s in the same category as everything that is deliberately made up or fictionalized. However, not only is this false and a mere play on words, but it is a complete straw man argument because it falsely redefines the opposing position in terms that make it more easily attackable, using false comparisons. A simple examination reveals this.

            1) First, the main problem with this argument is that what people actually experience is NOT the same thing as what a skeptic deliberately makes up for the sake of argument! To put the two in the same category is both illogical and underhanded.

            From, Debunking the Arguments of Pseudo Skeptics And Paranormal Debunkers, by Winston Wu

            Heero Yuy

      • Tim A

        “this info has been know in the 50’s and 60’s when clinical sciences interviewed men & woman who had been sexually abused”

        The above statement shows the fallacy of the argument from the 50s & 60s. They ONLY interviewed people who had been sexually abused. What about people who were never sexually abused and still turned out gay? Oh, that’s right. Their lives were fine, so they weren’t seeking out treatments. It is, and always has been, bad research to examine one small section and extrapolate the data to an entire population. If you ran a study on female prostitutes who were seeking medical treatments for STDs, would you use that data to theorize something about all women?

        • Redie Armon Jr

          They interviewed those who had not been abused as well, I forgot to mention that also, my mistake. The point is that they knew that this life style affected the mind and the emotional being and they (Clinical Science Field) listed homosexuality as a mental health illness, but the homosexual community tried to keep this diagnosis from getting out and pressure was put on the clinical science leaders to change the diagnosis before it was published, but it was published but in public the findings was suppressed. Amazing

          Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

        • Redie Armon Jr

          Actually, both groups were interviewed, I just mentioned the first group in response to the others reply to the article. In the 50’s and 60’s clinical science field as a mental illness, by some of the colleagues in that field had the research findings changed, but it was still published with the correct diagnosis, but the homosexual community kept this information from the majority of homosexuals & lesbians for years and most still don’t know this info.

          • Heero_Yuy

            Dear Rene Armin Jr.

            If researchers in the 59’s and 60’s already felt that being Homosexual was a sign of mental illness, then how could they not show bias in who they interviewed? An other words, how did they distinguish between those who were gay from birth and those who had been abused and then had fallen into the lifestyle through abuse. Or if it was assumed that all gay people had fallen into the lifestyle, then how did they account for the bias of their own presupposition?

            Heero Yuy

        • anne55

          Correlation does not equal causation.

      • Heero_Yuy

        Dear Redie Armon Jr,

        “What cannot be proved, if verses are admitted at this random rate”

        -Alter Balfour, An Inquiry Into the Meaning of the Words Sheol, Hades, Gehenna, and Tartarus

        Paul is here, in verse 1:27, likely quoting an ancient Greek text, related to or possibly a version of the Wisdom of Solomon. These texts were written to assure the Jewish people that God was on their side and not on the side of the wicked gentiles. It is the style of Pauline Writing and speaking to drop in quotes from others. Paul quotes a pagan philosopher in Acts, for instance. Paul’s audience would likely have recognized this and been very glad to hear the quote. Many were Jewish people coming back to Rome after they had been cast out because other members of their faith had rioted against the Christians. They had come back to churches which had become dominated by Gentile leadership, who took those roles to fill the vacume. They wanted to believe that God was partial in his judgment to the Jewish People. However when we look at Chapter 2 of Romans we see Paul refuting the concept of Judging others based on these words of what he quoted:

        Romans 2

        1 Therefore, thou art inexcusable, O man — every one who is judging — for in that in which thou dost judge the other, thyself thou dost condemn, for the same things thou dost practise who art judging, 2 and we have known that the judgment of God is according to truth, upon those practising such things. 3 And dost thou think this, O man, who art judging those who such things are practising, and art doing them, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? 4 or the riches of His goodness, and forbearance, and long-suffering, dost thou despise? — not knowing that the goodness of God doth lead thee to reformation! 5 but, according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou dost treasure up to thyself wrath, in a day of wrath and of the revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who shall render to each according to his works; 7 to those, indeed, who in continuance of a good work, do seek glory, and honour, and incorruptibility — life age-during; 8 and to those contentious, and disobedient, indeed, to the truth, and obeying the unrighteousness — indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and distress, upon every soul of man that is working the evil, both of Jew first, and of Greek; 10 and glory, and honour, and peace, to every one who is working the good, both to Jew first, and to Greek.

        YLT Bible Romans 2

        Paul is explicetly stating that when we judge others we are judging oursel

        But perhaps Paul was quoting it because he believed it was correct? Or perhaps I and others are wrong and Paul is writing of his own accord. Even so this doesn’t support your view, because the context of Romans 1 is cultic temple prostitution.

        And this can apply whether the text is quoted or original to Paul, since temple prostitution is an ancient practice.

        So what we have here is are verse about temple prostitution I’m the context of Paul’s warning us about condemning others when we ourselves practice the same un righteousness. Not Temple Prostitution, in the case of most of his hearers, but rather, “suppressing the truth,” as the Jewish Christians did when they tried to force the gentiles to convert to following the law, and traditions made by men which make the word of God of no account.

        Heero Yuy

        • glenbo

          >”traditions made by men which make the word of God of no account”<
          Stop right there…
          Why should I believe the bible is in any way true?
          If one cannot prove the bible is true, it must be dismissed as a standard of authority.

          • Gary

            Christians are convinced the Bible is true. If you don’t want to believe the Bible, you will have to face the consequences of that decision when God requires you to.

          • glenbo

            >”you will have to face the consequences of that decision when God requires you to.”<
            Which is MY DAMN BUSINESS and NOT yours.

          • Gary

            OK. But that doesn’t mean I can’t enjoy it.

          • Heero_Yuy

            Glenbo,

            That is an excellent point, however, I was not directly addressing you and that is why I did not directly present evidence for the Bible as a Standard of Authority.

            In another comment to you, I talked about Dr. Wilhelm Reich and Dr. Anton Bechamp and asked you to do a Google search related to these men. Becamp discovered that bacteria could change shape and size, and that they actually evolved directly from the cells that they helped to create, rather than being foreign invadors. Dr. Reich discovered something similar, but he also discovered a life force which can actually bring life out of dead matter. He came up with weather experiements which have since been replicated by another scientist, and I gave you a source for this in the other comment.

            What does this have to do with the Bible? The Bible teaches that God is Spirit, Universal, and that each of us is spirit Individualized, like streams from a common wellspring. This makes perfect sense in terms of what both Reich and Be champ discovered, scientifically.

            Please Google Ch. XIX The Bible and New Thought

            This will explain the rest of what I am talking about

            And also Google, YouTube Interview John Hagelin Consciousness

            This will explain the power of Consciousness mentioned in that article, which you will probably also want evidence for.

            Heero Yuy

          • glenbo

            >”which you will probably also want evidence for”<
            Still waiting for you to do so.
            …waiting…

          • Heero_Yuy

            I would be glad to provide links, however each time I try to share them Disqus prevents me from posting. So I am asking you to google the information yourself. I don’t understand why you won’t. Please just try and tell me what you think. Google Interview John Hagelin Consciousness.

            Heero Yuy

          • glenbo

            >”each time I try to share them Disqus prevents me from posting.”<
            Yes, I know. Me too. Here's how to do it. Many websites have algorithms that screen hyperlinks. What I do is copy the desired link's URL, paste to Word, add a space after each dot, re-copy, test paste and place a space after the URL to see if it turns blue. If it does not, you can post it. Then I will copy it, and delete any spaces after any dots. Sometimes there are multiple dots, so you have to add a space after each one and test paste to Word to see if it turns blue. When the test paste does not turn blue, you can post it but don't forget to add a space at the very end/after your test paste.

            I found the interview.
            Get back to you later.

          • glenbo

            Okay. I watched the video and checked out his website.
            Sorry, still not convinced an intelligent “creator” is responsible.
            Especially when said “creator” created cancer.

          • Heero_Yuy

            Glenbo

            Thank you so much.

            Then I would also ask you to Google the other things I have asked you, on Wilhelm Reich whale . to on Bechamp vs Pastuer Pdf. On orgon lab . org .

            Thank you friend.

            Heero Yuy

          • glenbo

            Sorry.
            Not convinced God has a hand in anything.
            After all, why would any “creator” create cancer?
            But thanks for trying.
            You gotta do better than that.

          • Heero_Yuy

            Glenbo,

            That doesn’t give me much to work with as far as answering your objections, nor have you given a standard by which I might “do better,” or what that would constitute.

            Cancer is an attempt by the body to heal itself. I would suggest Googling, World Without Cancer, the Vitamin B17 Story PDF. as well as Pleomorphic bacteria Cancer and again if you have not, Pasteur or Bechamp PDF.

            I’m sorry I am not a better help.

            Heero Yuy

          • glenbo

            >”Cancer is an attempt by the body to heal itself.”<
            Umm…Okay…
            Cancer kills.
            God created cancer. Therefore:
            A: God is a poor designer, is uncaring and un-acting, or
            B: There is no God and we are all at the whim of nature.
            In conclusion:
            A: Makes no sense and is un-proven.
            B: Makes perfect sense and backed with science.

          • Heero_Yuy

            Glenbo,

            God is not a poor designer. We have simply eliminated cancer preventative products from our diet, and used damaging medical treqtments on ourselves, and as a consequence, in accordance with natual law, we have reaped the consequences.

            From the Source listed below:

            They (my note: The evil forces , not necessarily Atheists) love (covertly) trashing us and the planet and then seeing us wail about there being no God because of all the wars, disease and death etc. Atheism is the main wall that Big Brother hides behind—if there is no God then there is no Devil, which is his main defence, invisibility. The High priest of Atheism is Richard Dawkins.]

            The Atheism Spiritual Racket: (I don’t thing you are like this personally, but you need to realize what is really going on. Also, much of the text in the original is hyperlinked):

            Google whale . to Atheism Spiritual Racket

            It has been heavily enforced for centuries by killing off the people with shamanic knowledge (shamans, medicine men, native tribes—the purpose of the ‘witch’ purges—good psychics were purged by fast acting cancers in the 90’s (see), and replacing them with people who are under their control eg Robertson, & Billy Graham who was a 33 degree Mason), to cut people off from Higher/Deeper Self (true God), mostly so we will easily worship false covert-Gods such as Allopathy (see: God as Modern Medicine Herbs for cancer), i.e. giving away personal power, and if God doesn’t exist then it is easier for folk to believe the lie that Evil doesn’t exist, and can sell it’s bullshit—how mankind is responsible for ruining the planet. Rather than the truth, it is being ruined by Reptilians/Luciferians.

            Heero Yuy

          • glenbo

            >”God is not a poor designer”<
            Cue cuckoo clock sound byte.

          • Heero_Yuy

            cue cokoo clock sound byte response.

            Parallax) +

            Samuel Justus (Heero Yuy Parallax)

          • Joe Ser

            Genetic entropy.

          • glenbo

            >>”Genetic entropy.”<<
            No "intelligent designer" would create genetic entropy, that is if indeed it is not a crock.

          • Joe Ser

            Bad design is still design. God created a universe that was not subject to decay. Man’s transgression cause it.

          • glenbo

            >>”God created a universe that was not subject to
            decay. Man’s transgression cause it.”<<

            What you are saying is children dies very young from cancer and a plethora of other diseases, 20,000 children die every day from disease, malnutrition and lack of medical access, we have earthquakes, tsunamis,
            tornados, war, terrorism and evil in general because Adam ate fruit?

            Do you actually believe all those poor children deserve that suffering and death?

            And God is powerless to correct it?
            And you believe this?
            And this makes sense to you?

          • Joe Ser

            Yes. God created the universe “good” Adam and Eve had preternatural gifts of bodily immortality, freedom from irregular desires and sickness. Adam and Eve broke the relationship with God and God revoked these protections.

            We do not know how God protects the souls of the innocents. Perhaps God expects other men to help the poor and suffering.

            God is almighty. He always derives good from evil.

            Yes

            Absolutely. Yes, makes perfect sense. Eternity is a long long long time. Heaven and the beatific vision are worth the redemptive suffering here on earth for a short time. No pain, no gain.

            Perhaps you would rather be programmed without free-will. With free-will comes good and bad. God permits evil, God is reality itself, the only unconditioned reality. Anything else is not God, and therefore a degree of suffering and evil must exist.

          • glenbo

            >>”God permits evil, —a degree of suffering and evil
            must exist.”<<

            No worthy “creator” would intentionally allow the death and
            suffering of children on such a massive scale. You provided a poor excuse to attempt validate the notion of an “intelligent designer” that coincidently allows all the exact same elements of life that nature does while sadly and deliberately turning his almighty back on 20,000 children daily.

            Nature is uncaring and un-acting. Nature has no goal. Nature
            is visible and not purely imaginary like God.

            Nature doesn’t and cannot suspend the laws of nature and
            science. Nature doesn’t operate via subterfuge. Nature doesn’t need illogical excuses.

            When facing a choice to pretend a non-existent imaginary “designer” is real and is worthy despite all his shortcomings and foolishly absurd excuses (fruit eating sin, good demands evil, Satan’s existence etc.) for what would normally occur in a natural environment, the natural explanation massively supported by
            science makes far more sense…and it doesn’t demand I believe in magic, demand I accept a tsunami that drowns a quarter of a million people in a single day, demands I accept the death and suffering of millions of children annually, demands I accept gross negligence and irrational chaos, (disease, evil, human physiological anomaly, etc.) demands 10% of my income, or special government
            legislation and entitlements.

            I cannot think of one single reason as to why I should
            believe in God.

            I see plenty of reasons to believe we are under the cruel
            and uncaring whim of nature and nothing else.

          • Joe Ser

            To properly evaluate design one must know what the plans, purpose and intent of the designer is.

            The god of BUC (blind unguided chance)you believe in is not worthy. You believe nature has no cause?

            You do believe in magic. You are the one with blind faith. Scientism is provisional and by its own definition limited to our 5 senses, 3 dimensions and time. My faith is based on evidence, reason and logic.

            Who created nature?

          • glenbo

            >>”To properly evaluate design one must know what the
            plans, purpose and intent of the designer is.”<>”You believe nature has no cause?”<>”You do believe in magic.”<>”You are the one with blind faith. Scientism is
            provisional and by its own definition limited to our 5 senses, 3 dimensions and time.”<>”My faith is based on evidence, reason and logic.”<>”Who created nature?”<<

            Again, you are being presumptuous. What must it be a “who?”
            This is a disingenuous presumptuous question and is closed minded. The proper question is: “How did all this come to be?”

            Your faith is not based on evidence, reason and logic.
            Your faith is based on un-provable presumptions.

          • Joe Ser

            Scientism has an agenda, that is “not let the divine foot in the door”

            The Magician’s Twin – CS Lewis

            A powerful must see video:

            The Magician’s Twin: C.S. Lewis and the Case against Scientism

            The Similarity Between Science and Magic

            1. Science as religion

            2. Science as credulity

            3. Science as power

            Evolution is an alternative religion idvolution.blogspot com/2013/02/the-magicians-twin-cs-lewis.html

            There is plenty of evidence for design in the universe. We can start with fine tuning. Over 30 parameters now.

            Science can say nothing about the supernatural. You believe that is all there is and no more?

            Yes, you actually do believe in “magic” of the god of BUC.

            The creator did not create sin. We did.

            OK then – How did it all come to be?

            Yours is not based on proof. Empirical proof is observable, repeatable and predictable. You have your own religion – aka scientism.

            Yes – my faith is not blind and based on evidence, reason and logic. In addition –

            Scientists use mathematical calculations to PROVE the existence of God idvolution.blogspot com/2017/01/scientists-use-mathematical_22.html

          • glenbo

            >>”Scientism has an agenda”<<
            Ok. It's been a pleasure.

          • Joe Ser

            Curious who that quote is from?

          • glenbo

            >>”Curious who that quote is from?”<<
            What quote?

          • Joe Ser

            “Can’t let the divine foot in the door” An a priori position for sure.

          • glenbo

            >>””Can’t let the divine foot in the door””<<
            And why should science allow magic into its research? To do so wouldn't be scientific therefore the results wouldn't be science.

          • Joe Ser

            We can agree then, only empirical results, that is observable, repeatable and predictable are scientific?

          • glenbo

            And peer reviewed. Yes.

          • Joe Ser

            Are you aware yet of the scandals and trustworthiness issues with peer review?

          • glenbo

            Do tell.

          • Temp

            It sounds to me like you care a lot about the suffering of people. Maybe you yourself has suffered. But one thing we can not do is be angry at God. Stop believing because of what we go through during our time here on earth. When we were children. Our parents make decisions we deem unfair or dont understand. But later in life find out it was for our own good. I do not understand what God is doing at all. But I believe he is good and in our next life through faith the answeres will be there waiting for us. Have a blessed day.I will be praying for you!

          • glenbo

            >>”It sounds to me like you care a lot about the
            suffering of people.”<>”Maybe you yourself has suffered. “<>”But one thing we can not do is be angry at God.”<>”Stop believing because of what we go through during our time here on earth.”<>”I do not understand what God is doing at all.”<>”But I believe he is good”>”and in our next life through faith the answeres
            will be there waiting for us.”<>”I will be praying for you!”<<

            Thank you, but you are wasting your prayers. Pray that the God you have chosen to believe in out of thousands will not allow 20,000 children to die today. I can take more comfort in that.

          • Joe Ser

            We are also on a journey to perfection. Yes, nature and deaths from natural events are part of it.

            I see no problem.

            In heaven there is no suffering.

          • glenbo

            >>” I see no problem.”<>”In heaven there is no suffering.”<<

            You are presuming heaven exists without evidence.

            You say this only to comfort yourself from the cognitive
            dissonance you suffer KNOWING that God intentionally allows children to needlessly suffer and die.

            You create your own reality to avoid cognitive dissonance, push the bad stuff out of your mind and continue making excuses for a barbaric uncaring god.

            Please watch this video:

            https://www. youtube.
            com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ&list=RD6mmskXXetcg&index=6

            Delete the space between the dot and youtube and the space
            between the dot and com.

          • Joe Ser

            Suppose God reduced suffering so that a hangnail was the worst pain. You would be complaining in the very same way about pain and suffering. Catholics believe in redemptive suffering.

          • glenbo

            >>”Catholics believe in redemptive suffering.”<<
            How nice.

          • J. R. Edwards

            What’s bizarre to me about this dialogue is that you, glenbo, seem to reject the notion of God because if they/it/she/he (hereafter, tish, which will also stand for related possisives and other grammatical constructs) were to exist, tish would necessarily allow evil and suffering; yet you have no problem believing in the natural world, to which you apparently attribute such evil and suffering.

            You reject God because of evil and suffering, but accept the natural world (and ostensibly whatever is propagated in the ever-oscillating name of science) despite, and almost (it seems) because of, evil and suffering.

            Many people who reject God think the world, along with all of its entailments (e.g. people), is good. You cite the “cruel and uncaring whim of nature” as your guidepost, yet you seem to take issue with the fact that homosexuals (and others) are subject to various atrocities (e.g. abuse, neglect, premature death). According to your worldview, is that not to be embraced as the natural, and thus, the logical and even necessary, outcome of the world as you see it? Why, then, do you take umbrage at the wholly natural outcomes of your naturalistic worldview?

            Many Christians, myself included, believe that “goodness” exists on a spectrum. Likewise, “evil” exists on a spectrum. Perhaps the two exist on the same spectrum, with “pure good” on one end, and “pure evil” on the other. This more closely approximates what I believe. Yet whereas you shared elsewhere that you reject the notion that a fictional and dubiously “wholly good” God created a supposedly “wholly evil” Satan–I reject outright that presentation of good and evil. God alone is good (i.e. infinitely and unusurpably good); thus, the complete absence of tish is evil. That is to say, Satan is not the complete absence of God, for in Satan there is life, and life is good. In other words, God’s superlative goodness is not matched diametrically by Satan’s finite evilness. All that to say, God is not the opposite of Satan; rather, God is good, and the complete lack of God is evil. God is on one end of the spectrum; the complete lack of God is on the other end. Everything else… Satan, suffering, abuse, neglect, murder, bigotry, hated, Christians, atheists, altruism, charity… is stationed somewhere in between those two poles.

            God could have existed eternally in a wholly good vacuum, but tish would have done so in relative isolation; thus, I believe that in order to share tish love with decidedly undeserving people (which is itself a good and loving gesture), tish created a necessarily imperfect world, replete with free-willed humans who could either accept or reject tish. In such a world, there is the possibility (and probability, and even reality) of evil; some view this as a problem, but I view it as a veritable necessity.

            Why? Because God alone is wholly good, and tish cannot recreate tish. Thus, tish could have existed forever in a vacuum, or tish could have created something less than perfect with which to share tish perfect love. Realized love is, in my mind, far better than potential love; thus, by creating and demonstrating tish willingness to love, and then actually loving, imperfect free-willed beings, God demonstrated and even consummated tish love.

            You seem to cite the “death and suffering of millions of children” as your greatest conceptualization of evil; let’s assume that is the greatest possible evil. Now, let’s imagine God created the world, yet barred the death and suffering of millions of children as a possibility; now what is the greatest possible evil? Maybe rape, maybe murder, maybe bigotry, maybe theft. Let’s say it’s rape. Well, since rape is now the greatest possible evil, shouldn’t a good God have barred it from the realm of possibility? Okay, imagine tish did; now tish is obligated to elimite murder, and bigotry, ad infinitum–until there is no longer any evil. Which would mean there would no longer be a me (I have evil in me), or a you (you have evil in you), or even any of those millions of kids you cited earlier who are suffering and dying each year.

            I think what you are arguing for, whether knowingly or unknowingly, is either the complete lack of God (which is tantamount to total pain and suffering and misery), or more realistically, God and tish standard of perfection. God did not–and does not–desire anyone to suffer or perpetrate any acts of evil, no matter how small. Tish standard is perfection. Tish alone meets that standard, for God alone is perfect, and God dwells eternally in a place of perfection, namely, heaven–a place no one else deserves to be.

            On a related note, many Christians, myself included, believe that hell is a condition known as “eternal separation from God.” Heaven, on the other hand, is union with God in tish unparalleled love. Had God not created humans, humankind (or the idea of humankind) would be relegated to a veritable hell (i.e. eternal separation from God). Yet tish did create; some believe, some reject. Those who believe in God (and repent of their sinfulness and turn to God for forgiveness) get to experience God’s love for all of eternity; those who refuse to believe are separated from tish eternally, which would have more or less been their same state of affairs had they not been created in the first place.

          • glenbo

            >>” you seem to take issue with the fact that
            homosexuals (and others) are subject to various atrocities (e.g. abuse, neglect, premature death). According to your worldview, is that not to be
            embraced as the natural”<>” God alone is good (i.e. infinitely and unusurpably
            good); thus, the complete absence of tish is evil.”<>” God is good, and the complete lack of God is evil.”<>” tish created a necessarily imperfect world,
            replete with free-willed humans who could either accept or reject tish. In such a world, there is the possibility (and probability, and even reality) of evil; some view this as a problem, but I view it as a veritable necessity.”<>” Because God alone is wholly good, and tish cannot
            recreate tish. Thus, tish could have existed forever in a vacuum, or tish could have created something less than perfect with which to share tish perfect love.”<>” God demonstrated and even consummated tish love.”<>” Which would mean there would no longer be a me (I
            have evil in me), or a you (you have evil in you),”<>” God alone is perfect, and God dwells eternally in
            a place of perfection, namely, heaven–a place no one else deserves to be.”<>” many Christians, myself included, believe that
            hell is a condition known as “eternal separation from God.” Heaven, on the other hand, is union with God”<>” Those who believe in God (and repent of their s
            infulness and turn to God for forgiveness) get to experience God’s love”<<

            I am not a sinner. I believe in doing good and that’s what I do.

            God doesn’t “love” if he calls for the murder of
            homosexuals.

          • Heero_Yuy

            Non Sequiter. But rather some men, trapped by illusion and ignorant of the means God gave to cure cancer, would rather look to the sky and shake the fist rather than open their eyes and see the perfection and love before them.

            Please, open your eyes. Do you expect to xonvince me with your mocking responses, or anyone else for that matter? Is this your idea of a rational discussion? Syaing my repsonses are Cuekoo in the verbal equivalent of poo flinging?

            Put down the weapon of your words. Give me the chance in the form of an open ear and eye and mind on your part, to explain myself and lay out my case.

            Then we can both see who is right or who is wrong.

            Parallax) +

            Samuel Justus (Heero Yuy Parallax)

          • glenbo

            >>”Non Sequiter”<>”men, trapped by illusion and ignorant of the means God gave to cure cancer,”<>”Cancer is an attempt by the body to heal itself.”<<

            How/why do people die of that which you claim is a mean to "heal?"
            Heal what?

          • Heero_Yuy

            Thank you at least for not calling me names.
            The first explanation will require a great deal of paraphrasing and summary. You will likely still have questions therefore which I will ve glad to answer for you if you will do so in a civil manner as you did in the above post.

            There are two principle reasons to my understanding. Physically cancer comes when the body has made an effort to heal itself and then upon healing instead of shutting off the healing process it begans to grow out of control. This is the Trophoblastic thesis of Cancer. Nature has provided a solution to this for living creatures. It is known as Amygdalin. The out of control cells are suseptable to it because of an enzymatic deficiency in them. In the American diet specifically, across the board, foods which contain amygdalyn have been eliminated. For instance millet has been replaced by wheat in the American diet. This has resulted in a massive increase in cancer.

            Spiritually cancer comes from the belief that sickness and death have any actual reality, whereas Perfect Health, Love, and Truth are the only true realities. I say that as someone who has seen unspeakable horrors in my life. It is BECASE I have seen these things that I belivee this, not inspire of them.

            Sincerely and Truly,

            Parallax) +

            Samuel Justus (Heero Yuy Parallax)

          • glenbo

            Are you a Christian Scientist?

          • Heero_Yuy

            No and Yes. I do believe that the Ultimate Truth in this world is Love and Health, even though and because I have seen a great deal of suffering in it and in my own life.

            And I do believe that Mary Baker Eddy, who founded Christian Science, discovered a great deal of Truth, though it was not perfect in every aspect. I would say the same thing for Jose Silva, or Dr. Maxwell Maltz, for Dr. Joseph Murphy or L. Ron Hubbard.

            But I also believe that when dealing with the world, one must look at both Spiritual and Physical causes. Truth occurs along different levels of reality. People also look at and experience the world at different levels of reality.

            Thus, my explanation, looking at both the Physical and Spiritual Causes of Cancer. Ultimately they trace back to a common source, ignorance and belief in lack, but this manifests itself as both physically a deficiency in amygdalin and pangamic acid, and spiritually as a fear of disease and death.

            I tend to look for reconciliation in beliefs, as I find contradiction everywhere. I cannot make sense of the world using a purely physical system, nor using one only of Spirit, so I use both in a kind of dialectic union. I don’t dismiss physical causes, and I don’t dismiss spiritual ones. Thus I can deal with both, whatever phenomena reality chooses to approach me with. I am not close minded, but neither do I believe anything, and thus I keep myself open to truth from whatever source it may come.

            So I would never look at someone with cancer and blame them. It is not my job to judge people, it is my job to help those I meet as best I can. So I would help that person, and pray for them but not ignore their physical needs or vitamin deficiencies either. And if Chemotherapy would help them then give them that. And if B17 would help them give them that. But don’t ban one method and exalt the other. But in each case, use whatever method works best for that patient, and over time you will find what works best for all.

            Unity Parallax) +

            Samuel Justus (Heero Yuy Parallax)

          • glenbo

            If my Mother dies of the cancer she has, I’m suing the Christian Science Church.

          • Heero_Yuy

            Why? Is she a Christian Scientist? If she is a Christian Scientist, Give her Apricot Kernels. Don’t eat anymore during a given time interval than the amount of regular apricots you could eat in the same time period. Google: A World Without Cancer, the Story of Vitamin B17. It is a free book and documentary. You don’t have to pay a cent and there are multiple people who sell the kernels, so no need to support anyone you don’t like.

            If you feel she needs chemo or radiation, encourage her to do that as well, for your sake if she won’t do it for her own. She can still pray and believe in Christian Science and do all those things. All health care decisions are up to the individual. There is no sin in getting medical help if you feel that is what you need.

            -Unity

          • glenbo

            >>”She can still pray and believe in Christian Science and do all those things.”<<

            She did.
            It failed.
            Surgery saved her.
            At least for now.

          • Heero_Yuy

            I am assuming by it you mean she prayed. Its unclear if you also mean she did everything else I suggested or even just standard treatments such as chemo. Either way, Im just glad she is safe for now and I’m sorry prayer did not assist her.

            Whey protein may be another thing you could try as whey has immune modulating and and anti-Cancer properties. And if you have not tried apricot kernels, I can confirm at least they should not kill her, I have eaten upwards of 9 a day or more, spread out, and with no ill effects. If she still wants to use prayer in addition to this have a CS practitioner assist her. That could help. Otherwise, I will pray for you and her both. That is all I know to do. Unless there is something else you need that I can provide. If these replys are taxing to you, I can stop that as well. -Unity

          • Heero_Yuy

            Glenbo,

            I thought you might realize that per Hagelin, universal consciousness and our consciousness is what creates reality. Thus to deny God’s existence is to deny one’s own existence.

            Heero Yuy

          • glenbo

            >”our consciousness is what creates reality.”<
            I disagree.
            Reality, or the real natural world, or nature and natural occurrences created our consciences.
            You have it backwards.
            Conscience cannot create what already exists. It merely acknowledges what is around us.

          • Heero_Yuy

            “Consciousness cannot create what already exists”

            How do you know this? By What Standard?

            “You have it backwards”

            How do you know? by What Standard?”

            Isn’t that what John Hagelin, a Quantum Physacist, states in his video? Do you disagree and if so, why? By What Standard?

            Thank you for talking to me and not making fun of me.

            Heero Yuy

          • glenbo

            Cue cuckoo clock sound byte.

          • Heero_Yuy

            Cukoo bite response.

            Parallax) +

            Samuel Justus (Heero Yuy Parallax)

          • from heaven to hell

            Dang, glenbo, you’re losing me:(
            Religion is an opinion and personal belief.
            Do you like French fries? Because there’s millions of reasons why they are awesome and why you should. <—–see? Opinion. Nothing more. Stop falling off topic; religion has zero to do with the original topic.

          • glenbo

            >>”Stop falling off topic; religion has zero to do with the original topic.”<<

            Why then is homosexuality seen as being bad?

          • from heaven to hell

            While it’s true that many bible thumpers think homosexuality is bad, it’s a sad reality that just as many atheists feel the same. So i always cringe when religion gets brought into it because I believe it doesn’t help at all and, if anything, gives the thumpers more fuel.
            At the end of the day, some people simply can’t wrap their brains around it. I don’t agree with said people, nor do I understand their reasoning, but I can tolerate ignorance providing it isn’t rammed down my throat. In short, if people don’t agree with it, they should keep quiet.

          • glenbo

            >>” it’s a sad reality that just as many atheists feel the same. “<<

            Do you have a source of this "reality" as being factual?
            None of the atheists I know are anti-gay.

          • from heaven to hell

            Ah Glenbo, I see that you are coming from a place of love, however, it’s pretty clear that you’re getting sucked in and losing focus on what you originally came in here to do. So transparent, in fact, that most people have stopped responding to you. Truly a pity because I do think you’re a solid guy, but you’re getting a bit silly. Do I have a source/link that I can pass your way to prove that just as many atheists are anti-gay as “Christians” ? Are you really serious or just trolling? I have plenty of personal experiences as well as several gay friends, AND my sister is as gay as the day is long lol. Good enough for you? I predict not.

            Something to think about: Most people like warm/hot showers. I don’t know most people, but I know many people, and guess what they like?? See where I’m going with this? Not everything needs a source to be relevant. Anyway, you take care, Glenbo:)

          • glenbo

            >>”Not everything needs a source to be relevant. “<<

            Well perhaps you can at least tell me WHY "many atheists" think homosexuality is bad.

            And you didn't answer my previous question:

            Why then is homosexuality seen as being bad?

          • glenbo

            You didn’t answer my question:
            Why is homosexuality bad?

          • Marvin Boorsma

            glenbo…as I said earlier you don’t understand God or his guidance.
            “Especially when said “creator” created cancer.”
            The life we live on this earth is so short compared to eternity where there is no defects of any kind. You consider cancer to be the end of it all. That end to you is just the beginning to one who is saved. It’s about how we deal with cancer or all the other problems we have. Do we try to deal with them ourselves or do we ask our creator for help, guidance and strength. How others see us dealing with our problems is also important…how we deal with other folks and their problems, ect.
            You can’t talk about God and cancer without all the things I just mentioned and more.
            There’s so much more to God and Christianity than the little snippets you keep spouting while denying/ignoring the true big picture.

          • glenbo

            There is no reason for me to believe in God.
            There is no reason for me to believe the bible is true.

    • Ray Engelke

      Thank you so much for this respons, glenbo

    • Mark Borofsky

      Paglia herself is gay so your stament she probably doesn’t know any gays is rather silly. And he was quoting her on that very comment. She said they all have trauma of some sorts, not o my sexual but family issues as well. And yes, the same theory can be attributed to women who are gay or bisexual.

      • glenbo

        Irrelevant.

    • Daniel Sellstrom

      Glenbo, since you’re so interested in science would you like to educate us all on the science of racial differences in iq? I’ll wait.

      • glenbo

        >>”would you like to educate us all on the science of racial differences”<<
        I'm not sure what you mean by "iq," but I'll give your question a shot.
        I cannot compare the racial differences to why we have evil, death and suffering because that's because Adam ate fruit. (Makes perfect scientific sense.)
        But it is so scientifically clear and demonstrable that we have 6909 known different languages in the world and 3 races…Caucasoid, Mongoloid and Negroid and millions of mixes/combinations of all 3 races. All humans are 99.9% identical genetically, so there is essentially only one race…human…just many different breeds.
        But we have nearly 7000 different languages because God got angry with what I would assume were Caucasoids at the time wanting to get to Heaven sooner than God wished by building the Tower of Babel, so he intentionally scrambled their languages.
        This makes absolute scientific sense, that if an intelligent creator/designer wanted His children to enter His Kingdom, it would anger Him if they wanted to do so prematurely, and His reaction would be the most logical one…to make it essentially impossible for all His children/creation to be able to spread His word throughout the world and continents because they can no longer understand what they are saying to each other.
        This would also explain what there are thousands of different known Gods and thousands of different known religions.
        It's what God wanted and planned. And it makes perfect scientific sense.
        Hope you didn't have to wait too long.

        • miss j

          Not sure what you mean by IQ? Lol

          • glenbo

            >’Not sure what you mean by IQ? Lol”<
            Do you believe that intelligence is determined by race?

        • from heaven to hell

          Okay, straight up, I’m a believer in God. Certainly not the God depicted in the bible (I’m just too smart to not have learned from the old “telephone” game in middle school lol). But even though I believe in the creator, I still think this comment hit the nail on the head.

          • glenbo

            Thank you.
            But your comment begs a question:
            Why do you believe in God?
            Or should I say A god, never mind the one you chose to believe in?

          • from heaven to hell

            Ready for a super cheesy response? I believe because I feel it. I feel that there is s higher power. I’d like to dazzy up my response with something thought provoking, but it’s just that simple. I don’t believe in the God that bible thumping people believe in because it doesn’t make sense to me. Something good can’t be awful, and God seems pretty nasty as far as the bible goes. But truly, that’s all I got for you: I believe because I feel that there is a higher power. It’s not something you’ll understand and that’s perfectly understandable; you can’t believe what you don’t feel. I have zero proof that God exists. Nobody does. It’s a gut feeling and I trust my gut similar to how you trust yours. You have no proof God doesn’t exist, so you trust your gut, right? When you start to see it this way you suddenly stop caring who believes and who doesn’t. Worked for me lol

          • glenbo

            Do you believe in evolution?
            Do you believe in a 14 billion year old universe?

    • George

      “The very fact some children are born with both male and female genitalia (intersex) proves sexuality is not a black and white binary.”

      NO, it only proves there are genetic errors in this world.

      There is Down syndrome out there, but it DOES NOT mean the number of chromosomes is fluid. This species has 46 chromosomes. When you have a baby with Down – it is a genetic error.

      Oh, you, propagandists! I am so sick of your brainwashing!

      • glenbo

        >>”Yes, your logic failed, Glenbo!”<<
        How so?
        Are you saying sexual attractions can be chosen at will?

        • George

          I did not say that, but since you are asking: I am not 100% sure what answer to give you. But it will be interesting to observe the dynamics in the future. Just like whites are brainwashed to hate themselves, and to feel guilty that they are white (can you imagine how much that infamous AIDS Skrillex hates himself?), men are brainwashed that homosexuality is something normal, and homosexuals are poor victims in a world where the heterosexuals are the oppressors, and if you feel that innate disgust towards homosexuality, you are a bigot, a homophob. I am curios if a certain % of men will buy this propaganda and due to shame/guilt/compassion will decide to be involved in homosexual relations – just like ‘transabled’ people decide that they don’t deserve to be normal, or think they are impostors having a normal body. (Men’s disgust towards homosexuality is not the same among all men, there are the true descendants of the alpha males from the savanna which are very, very disgusted, but I also met heterosexual men who are not – and they may be the victims of the lgbt propaganda.)

          And 1 more thing: don’t use symmetry when you talk about homosexual men and homosexual women. They are totally different stories. For instance, heterosexual women are not disgusted by homosexual women in the same way like heterosexual men are disgusted by homosexual men – and this is totally expected, explainable and encourageable.

          On the other side, and I am asking seriously and I am really curios to find out the answer to this: is there a scientific consensus that at birth (no matter why) the sexual orientation of a man is determined in 100% of cases, and no matter what happens to a man during his life his orientation won’t be changed in 100% of cases? And if there is such a consensus, of course I won’t blindly believe you, send me the references.

          • glenbo

            >>” whites are brainwashed to hate themselves, and to
            feel guilty that they are white”<>” men are brainwashed that homosexuality is
            something normal”<>” if you feel that innate disgust towards homosexuality,
            you are a bigot,”<>” heterosexual women are not disgusted by homosexual
            women in the same way like heterosexual men are disgusted by homosexual men – and this is totally expected, explainable”<>” is there a scientific consensus that at birth (no
            matter why) the sexual orientation of a man is determined in 100% of cases,”<<

            Why are you saying “100%” of cases? If only 99% can be
            demonstrated, is the data/results/conclusion to be dismissed? Can you please clarify?

            There is a genetic component for homosexuality: Genetic
            signatures, at a region near the end of the long arm of the X chromosome designated Xq28 was found in homosexual men.

            www(dot)pbs(dot)org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/assault/genetics/nyreview(dot)html

            www(dot)listland(dot)com/top-10-reasons-sexual-orientation-is-not-a-choice/

            science(dot)sciencemag(dot)org/content/261/5119/321

            Also, sexuality can be affected in utero. This easily
            explains how identical twins don’t always share identical sexual orientations.

            www(dot)sciencemag(dot)org/news/2012/12/homosexuality-may-start-womb

            www(dot)berkeley(dot)edu/news/media/releases/2000/03/03-29-2000a(dot)html

            www(dot)hawaii(dot)edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/1961to1999/1995-biological-aspects(dot)html

            www(dot)councilforresponsiblegenetics(dot)org/viewpage(dot)aspx?pageid=66

            You avoided my question:

            Can sexual attractions can be chosen at will?

          • Tom

            Wow… this “person” is basically saying that if you’re the descendent of a “true alpha male” then you will be innately disgusted with homosexuality. If not, you’re the victim of “LGBT propaganda.”

            Can’t wait to tell my Best Friend about how he’s such a victim.

        • from heaven to hell

          Yes. He’s saying he is totally capable of finding men doable, but chooses to stick to women. After all, that’s what all “it’s a choice” people are getting at, no? I mean, it’s that simple, right? Yeppers. Just a choice

          • glenbo

            How interesting it is that he never responded to my question.

      • from heaven to hell

        Um….what on earth is your main point here?

        “Born outside of MY definition of normal!?? To the lake with you!!” Lol, is that what you are getting at? Whether it’s your definition of an error or not — and for the sake of humouring you– it is what it is, so what does it matter? If anything, you actually further supported Glenbo’s comment lol. You genius you! Sexuality isn’t black and white, regardless of what makes it so.

  • Mark T

    It seems to me that all children becoming sexually aware would fine sexual touch satisfying. It is just that some have a consciences of right and wrong, where others are more open to experiences. A boy could be sexaully touched by a woman and find it satisfying at the time but feels a great sense of guilt later. Just because a bod enjoyed an older man’s touch without gilt would not mean they are truly gay, but rather just more sexually free.

    • Angie

      Adults should not sexualize their interactions with children. Period. Children should not be forced to become “sexually aware” ahead of their natural psychological progress toward discovering their own sexual feelings or have that natural process traumatically interfered with by being prematurely exposed to adult sexuality.
      To fail to recognize this is to misapprehend the nature of child developmental psychology as you and so many people clearly do.
      Children are not “mini adults”.
      You may have noticed they don’t always know what’s good for them.
      They don’t have the brain development to understand
      or consent to sexual activity and it’s far-reaching consequences.
      Taking advantage of a child who does not yet have a pre-frontal cortex to satisfy your adult needs and feelings is wrong and harmful.
      Try to get that through your head.
      Maybe read an actual science text on the subject.
      What “feels good” physically to a child is not the point here.
      It has a negative psychological impact because of the psychological advantage adults with their full grown mature brains have over children.
      No one benefits from being sexually manipulated and exploited.
      You can’t just guess at this stuff,
      or decide based on personal anecdotal experience.
      It’s been studied, and found to be irreparably developmentally harmful to children.
      That’s why it’s illegal and will remain so.
      It’s more likely that laws protecting children from sexual abuse will be expanded than that they will ever be relaxed as our knowledge of the developing brain expands.

      • NSummer

        I agree. My father would always go through a kind of consenting stage before abusing me as a young boy. Although I consented, since I could do nothing else, it meant nothing.
        Mark T thinks like an abuser. Children find sexual touch confusing and frightening, not satisfying. It will likely arouse them in a way they cannot understand.

  • Some Guy

    I have some sympathy with this article. As a near 40-yr old who was sexually abused a few times around age 12-13, I have been ‘a bit confused’ ever since. I began life as a boy who had good relations with girls and proudly had my first girlfriend age 7. I was attracted to a series of girls and had no interest in boys whatsoever other than as friends. My world changed a bit following the abuse. I withdrew a lot in my teenage years and ended up developing an eating disorder at age 16. A horrible time for the next 2 years. I generally avoided girls apart from one episode at 15 years old where I fancied this girl, asked her out and then had a complete meltdown. Something was telling me I just couldn’t do it and I didn’t understand why. By the time I went to university, I pretty much thought I might be gay and allowed people to think that, didn’t think about guys at all. I was secretly fixated on a number of girls and did nothing about it. I finally lost my virginity at 22 to a girl who was essentially a friend with benefits for a few weeks. From my 20s-onwards I have struggled with intimacy issues in relationships with females and have harboured secret desires for encounters with men but done nothing about it. As I approach 40, sex with my female partner has pretty much evaporated and the noise of the secret desires has increased to the point where I suspect I fall somewhere around 30-40% bisexual on the sexuality spectrum. Parents-wise, my Mum was a fair bit overbearing and my Dad a reserved completely non-macho gentleman. What was the deciding factor in my ongoing confusion? Genetics, upbringing or the child abuse? I honestly don’t know.

    • Elizabeth Putnam

      See I was never sexually abused as a child. I was sexually assaulted at 19 but by that time I had already accepted I was both attracted to men and women. My mom was a stay at home mom and mostly did what my dad told her to do while my dad is the breadwinner and follows the stereotype of being a man. I got along with my parents as a child.

      • miss j

        That’s called social engineering. Why else would you have to accept anything, as you put it. You obviously felt pressured or brainwashed into “accepting” what got are bring taught.

        • Elizabeth Putnam

          I went to public school until high school and then went to a Catholic high school. So during my formative years as a teenager, I wasn’t in public school. It was really “acceptance,” it was more so I figured out my sexual orientation. My mom wanted to be a stay at home mom although she did like hair. She just never needed to have a job and instead decided to take care of us kids. Also I do eventually want to get married just not right now. Congrats though on assuming things about my life based on a paragraph I wrote.

  • Michael Baker

    The statement that “all gays are born that way” is obviously and provably not true. China had a population problem and restricted each couple to just one birth. Because Chinese culture put a premium on males over females, couples who found they were to have a female child often aborted the fetus and tried again (some even waited for birth then killed the child but that’s another story). The result was an imbalance in the Chinese population of males and females, something like 55% men vs. 45% woman. The lack of potential women available as sexual partners for men left many men with no choice but same-sex relationships. There was an explosion in homosexuality among Chinese men and what the Chinese government now calls “China’s homosexual problem.” This in turn led to the recent decision by the Chinese leadership to allow each couple to have two children. So, not all homosexuals are born that way, at least some choose that lifestyle or are forced into it by their government.

    • Angie

      Albert Kinsey’s research found that most people are essentially bisexual, and choose heterosexuality because of it’s social acceptance. Only a small portion of people are genuinely exclusively heterosexual or exclusively homosexual. As with most continuums most people, if they were totally honest with themselves, fall somewhere toward the middle.

      • miss j

        Bullshite. This is a eugenics operation to depopulate the planet. A brave new world, where the state is the family and the state controls the births. This is social engineering right down to the estrogen mimicking chemicals in the food and water. And we aren’t buying it.

      • Laura Lynn Belle

        I believe that. I think social norms & religious guilt do a LOT of straight people make.

      • NSummer

        That makes more sense. I have never believed people can be ‘100% man’ or ‘100% woman’ in terms of sexuality. However, in order to be socially accepted, a lot of people will identify as straight.

      • Gecks

        I take Kinsey’s “research” with a grain of salt since he himself was pedophile. His research was not done through an impartial and pure lens. He really had a real stake in the game to diversify the moral ethic on sexuality.

      • Laura Lynn Belle

        That’s very interesting. So you’re KINDA saying it’s a choice. This could also explain why so many men & women turn to their same sex for intimacy when incarcerated, in the military, or other situations where there are no other choices. Our basic human need is to give & receive love. Maybe we’re more willing to break social norms to fulfill that need when we’re in environments where those social norms no longer have that same stigma. I think society, especially religion, could make people terrified to look at the possibility that they might be attracted to the same sex. I think some women are absolutely beautiful but my brain can’t fathom being attracted to them…but that COULD be bc I was raised to think that it’s wrong. I’m not religious now, but my upbringing is STILL in the back of my head. Im close to God tho & idk how He feels but I THINK he just really loves us & wants us to be happy. But idk…..that’s just my opinion based on my life experience. I’m just trying to be honest…open minded. I can’t wait to study Albert Kinsey’s research!! Thanks!!

  • glenbo

    >>” Simply I know better
    than you. So deal with it.”<<

    This is such a childish irresponsible remark.

    But thank “you know better than I” simply because you believe in a non-existent imaginary invisible magician who cannot control evil and suffering. But nice attempt at making excuses for what would occur in a natural world/environment without a careless incompetent “creator” who lost control of his creation and blames
    another non-existent mischievous invisible magician.

    I respect your right to live any delusion you choose.

    If there is any reason you cannot allow LGBT people to live their lives the way they wish, now is your chance to provide a rational reason as to why they should not.

    And I’m sorry, religion cannot come into this rationalizing. If you cannot provide a rational reason why LGBT people should not be allowed equal rights, such as marriage without invoking a non-existent flawed imaginary god that condones slavery, child murder and rape, then we can agree the lives of LGBT people are none of your business.

    • Marvin Boorsma

      glenbo…wow…so if you don’t believe in something it’s false or imaginary? Really???
      If I said I was disgusted with man on boy or man on man sex I would be a homophobe according to you. What if I was molested by a man as a child, would then I be given a pass to be a homophobe? Or would I have to be molested a number of times by a number of different boys and men like an older boy in scouts, a classmate, an upper classmate, a guy who lived down the alley or a guy who lived at the YMCA? What if all that molestation caused me to engage in sex with other boys and men willingly and as I got older decided to only engage in sex with women even if I had to lie, cheat and deceive to get it but…still look at guys as someone I would be willing to have sex with but don’t because…I don’t know…too much crap floating around in my head as I am tormented…I want to…I don’t want to…it’d good…it’s bad…I’m so confused…I like them…I hate them…I wanna kill them…I wanna kill myself…and on and on and on…

      Yeah…that’s what goes on with many boys…I know this is fact because I lived it, I also know I’m not the only one…so you go ahead and spout your support for these guys while they go on molesting other boys that go on to be tormented with some driven to suicide and then blame the suicide on the homophobes.

      Back to my first sentence…I assume you like the homosexual lifestyle and agree with it. That will explain why you’re so willing to condone all the abuse that goes on and even deny most of it.
      Much like you deny the existence of God. You argue about His rules guidance and history but take it all out of context.

      You have little to no understanding of God so you have no argument to stand on except that you disagree with Him.

      It was God that took all the turmoil out of my head. It was God that helped me forgive all those men and boys that did all those things to me. It was God that turned my life around 180 degrees. I have felt the hand of God on me…the same God you claim doesn’t exist…because you disagree with His teachings…

      • glenbo

        >>”If I said I was disgusted with man on boy or man on man sex I would be a homophobe according to you.”<>”You have little to no understanding of God”<>”because you disagree with His teachings”<<
        Correct. I disagree with slavery, rape, and murdering children

        There is no reason for me to believe in God.
        There is no reason for me to believe the bible is true.

  • Jeffy Oak

    I’m gay and I was abused and abandoned growing up. I completely agree. The stupid hedonistic empty gay culture never wants to admit that they were not born gay and that the majority of gays and lesbians you’ll meet were abused in some way as infants/children.

    • MillennialWASP

      The SPLC is putting high profile Christian ministries on their “hate watch” list just for stating what the article does. I became addicted to opioids at 15, and during my 7-8 year battle with addiction I met a lot of homosexual people. Almost every gay individual I met first had homosexual relations with someone in their twenties or thirties when they were in high school, and that older sexual partner was usually the one to introduce them to hard drugs. I brought this up in an AA meeting when I first got clean a few years ago, and was immediately kicked out of the meeting. Topics like this one basically being untouchable in society, things we all know to be true but aren’t allowed to talk about, is the reason Donald Trump is our President.

    • Profajl Nejm

      So why don’t you just un-gay and stop living a “stupid hedonistic empty life”?

      • Sonia Blah

        It just doesn’t work like that. I believe that in many ways by being molested as a child affected their confidence as men perhaps? Maybe it had such a strong psychological affect that moving forward as a gay man would be the easier choice?
        Is it easy for an alcoholic to recover?

    • Sonia Blah

      Every single gay friend of mine admitted he was molested as a child.
      I was 17 when my grammar school friend told me he’s gay. Only then he told me how his step-father molested him when he was 6 years old. He also told me that he knew that what his step-father was doing to him was wrong but he said it also “felt good” so he never came forward. I thought that maybe he was the exception until I developed friendships with other gay men who also admitted to being molested as children.

      • Laura Lynn Belle

        It’s not uncommon for it to feel good. The person molesting the child is touching the same areas we touch when we have sex as adults. Of COURSE it feels good. It’s VERY common for children to have this confuse them & add to the shame & guilt. Poor dear.

    • cliffordt

      Well done for sharing that Jeffrey, it might give others the courage to admit it and talk about it.

    • NSummer

      I was unable to identify with my father and his abuse and I could not be like him. I was then sexually abused and punched by two male teenagers on several occasions. This made it hard for me not to to feel homosexual until I remembered what the teenagers did to me. I was threatened with broken bones if I said anything, so I did not think about it. If I had never thought about the teenagers, I might have experimented with males, but I felt I was naturally heterosexual. I just accept that homosexuality is the norm or the choice for some people. It does not have to be the result of sexual abuse.

    • Angie

      Any child who is made to feel that there is something wrong or bad about them or who has already been abused becomes a more vulnerable target for further abuse. Pedophiles know how to identify children who are emotionally vulnerable or needy and children who are abused in any way, or outside of the norms society sets in any way are more likely targets for abuse. For example children who have been emotionally or physically abused are then more likely to be chosen as victims for sexual abused in their lifetime. It’s tragic, but the more someone is abused as a child the more likely they are to be abused further. These kids have behaviors that reveal their trauma to those who know what to look for.

  • Jeffy Oak

    Dr. Patricia Newton is a doctor that counseled over 10,000 gays and lesbians and found that in her experience 99 percent of them later admitted to some form of trauma/abuse.

    • NSummer

      Why were the people being counselled? Presumably because of some trauma they needed support with.

      • Laura Lynn Belle

        Trauma & sexual abuse IS trauma. 1 in 4 women are raped. The average pedophile molests 280 children. It IS a common result for victims of sexual abuse to be confused about sexual identity. I was raped by my dad when I was five. I blocked it out for 14 years & when I finally remembered, bc I sobered up, I was temporarily confused about my sexuality…bc deep down I was TERRIFIED of men. I’d been dating a guy who beat the crap out of me bc I had a victim mentality & PTSD. My brain DIDN’T want to remember being abused to it KEPT telling me that ONLY WOMEN WERE SAFE. I never could get so far as to switch to women but I wanted to in a way bc I needed to be done with men BADLY. I went through therapy tho & stopped being afraid of men & was fine. There’s STILL a part of me that has a hard time with male intimacy sometimes. With men who are sexually abused my men, it confuses them. I know men who were sexually abused & they went through the same stage I did….they thought they might be gay, since a man had molested them. It skewed their sexual understanding. These are all just psychological facts. I’m NOT saying all bisexual or homosexual people WERE abused, saying there’s something WRONG with liking the same sex, OR minimizing anyone’s feelings or say they’re this way bc they’re flawed. I’m just stating facts about people who were sexually abused & don’t want to diminish their pain either. My lil sis was abused & beaten regularly & she’s bisexual, homosexual, or straight, depending on the day of the week. She’s so very lost bc of what the monster known as my biological father did.

        • scotsims

          See a counselor.

          • Laura Lynn Belle

            I did. Thanks

      • Angie

        Gay and lesbian people experience extreme prejudice about their sexual orientation from the time they first become aware of it and start to recognize the negative views that people hold about it, but they also have all of the same reasons for needing counseling that other people have from trauma to grief, to sexual harassment in the work place, or you name it. Just human beings and subject to all the same issues.

  • Debra Morey

    I’ve always believed that while it is true that some identify as gay or bisexual from a very very age, some have formed their sexual identity based on childhood sexual abuse.

    • Laura Lynn Belle

      I was abused & was confused about my sexual identity for a few months while having my blocked out memories return at the age of 19. I never acted on my confusion but can see how easy it would be to do so. So I don’t think it’s a thing that happens when the abuse happens. I think any sexual identity confusion &/or identification happens at the same time others are developing theirs. It’s just that a person who’s been abused will have these feelings they don’t understand mixed into NORMAL confusing things teens go through do it makes it VERY hard!!! The MAIN issue with sexual abuse is it requires a YOUNG child to assign MEANING to it & we’re just too young to do that. Many adults couldn’t understand what happened to them if they were raped. They’d STILL blame themselves & feel the horrible things a child feels but a child is drastically more confused & it destroys their ability to form bonds, develop relationships, or trust people. Those 3 things are crucial to surviving & thriving & being happy. They’re how we develop meaningful relationships & self esteem. Without them, we don’t learn how to love ourselves so we can’t TRULY ever FEEL loved, love others, etc. It took me a long time to learn how to love myself and I had a nice family & strong relationship with God to support me. I did what most don’t ever do; I went through my trauma/memories & assigned meaning (made sense of what happened, understood it) all over again but, this time, I did it with an adult brain…not a 5 year old’s. I did all this at the age of 19 and I do it daily, in a way, but I’m VERY fortunate to have been able to face my issues at such a young age. So many people never do or never remember or they are much older than I was & they’ve already developed habits, beliefs, & behavior that are VERY hard to undo…& obviously some mistakes made as a result of this thwarted thinking can’t be undone. (being sexually promiscuous is a common result of sexual abuse…u think u have to have sex to be loved. U also don’t think u can say no bc u have a victim mentality)

      Hope my insight gives you some insight of your own!! I don’t believe in being a victim or blaming anyone but yourself for your situation. I believe bad things happen to lots of people & we can CHOOSE to be bitter, angry, miserable victims OR we can choose to learn & grow & be better & stronger because of the trials we go through. I guess u could say I LITERALLY believe that what doesn’t kill us makes us stronger. Idk that we can learn or grow any OTHER kind of way…Tribulations & mistakes are the best learning styles I know of!!! Lol!!

      Bless!!!

  • Miip

    Excellent article. Thank you for sharing. I will pass it on.

  • Lucy Andrew

    I’m from USA am here to give my testimony about Dr Silver who helped me cure my HERPES (HSV), i want to inform the public how i was cured from (HERPES SIMPLEX VIRUS) by Dr Silver, i visited different hospital but they gave me list of drugs like Famvir, Zovirax, and Valtrex which is very expensive to treat the symptoms and never cured me. Three months ago a friend suggested that I try herbal medicine; from a very powerful herbal doctor called Dr Silver. I looked up his blog on the internet site and indeed he have had immense success with his product. There were lot of persons posting their testimony about how he cured them. when i contacted him he gave me hope and send a Herbal medicine to me that i took and it seriously worked for me, my HERPES result just came out negative. My doctor was shocked how i got cured. I am so happy as i am sharing this testimony. My advice to you all who thinks that their is no cure for herpes that is Not true just contact him and get cure from Dr Silver Herbal Center. He can cure of all kinds of STD you may have. Remember your health is precious email him with his email as; (drsilverhealingtemple@gmail.com) he can also help with the following problems

    HEPATITIS,
    CANCER,
    HIV/AIDS
    UNABLE TO GET PREGNANT

  • Profajl Nejm

    lol christians

    • Swizzler

      Is threatened by the basic scientific reasoning that never once invokes the bible and so comments “lol christians”.

  • miss j

    Perhaps the discussion should be why is society, and Hollywood in general, along with the elite establishment and politicians protecting and proliferating pedophiles? Why did New York Times and salon write articles defending pedophiles? Why is the media protecting pedophilia? Why are schools specializing children, grooming them from age four… To accept pedophiles?

    Its all a plan to depopulate through eugenics, to consider sexuality as young as possible, and to destroy the family. The state is the parents. Why are they placing estrogen mimicking chemicals in food water and plastics? Why is the sperm count cut in half?

    Alduos Huxley explained it very well in a brave new world. Eugenics. 101.

    • Levi

      It’s all so blatant and in your face now a days. I guess the saying is true the best place to hide is in plain sight. Once you break the family, your break the community, creating a perfect environment to manipulate and corrupt a generation of young impressionble youth.

  • Tom

    I’m gay and I was never sexually abused…

    I grew up in a Southern Baptist family within an extremely conservative, Christian area of the Southern, Appalachian mountains.

    However, after admitting that I was gay to my parents and friends, I was made into a pariah at school while my parents emotionally abused me. When I became moody, depressed, and withdrawn, my parents started calling me “Eeyore” as a joke, laughing while they said I was being a typical melodramatic teenager. Finally, in my senior year, they kicked me out of the house for discovering that I had browsed the internet for gay porn. (Imagine that, a 17 year old boy looking a porn… My father had a sock drawer full of porn. My “crime” wasn’t the fact that what I was looking at was pornographic, it’s because it was gay…)

    • Royce E. Van Blaricome

      Ah, golly gee Wally, there ya done went and used one of those made-up buzz words.

      And btw, if ya think being a little snowflake having a meltdown is gonna buy your way outta eternal torment in the Lake Of Fire, you’re sorely mistaken. You can whine and blame your parents until the cows come home.

      Bottom Line: YOU are gonna answer to Jesus for what YOU have done. You either surrender as a slave to Him as your Lord and Master or you keep sin as your master. There will be NO excuse when you meet Christ on your Judgment Day.

      • Tom

        ^And here we have that great Christian “love and tolerance”!

        Assimilate into our faith or we will condemn you into the fiery pits of HELL!!!!!!!!!

        I just LOVE your empathy to the suffering of another human being! So very, VERY Christian!!!

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          I’m not the one condemning you. Christ is and you are by rejecting what Christ has done for you.

          And ya might wanna refrain from speaking on subjects you are clueless about. YOU have NO idea what a Christian is. Ya can’t because to be a Christian is to be a Christ follower and you don’t know Christ.

          And this is the condemnation: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. (John 3:19-20)

          And you are dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you walk according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them you live in the lusts of your flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and are by nature children of wrath (Eph. 2:1-3)

          Now, on this day where we Christians celebrate the miracle of Holy, Righteous, and True God Almighty coming down to take the form of Man ya might wanna spend some time pondering that miracle and Eternity.

          “But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and sexually immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Rev. 21:8)

          “Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.” (Rev 22:15)

          • Fiona Blackburn

            I have a hunch Royce is hiding an attraction to men. Did you know that in a study of men who were asked to watch homosexual pornography, the men who had previously been the most vocal about being anti-gay were the ones who ended up being more aroused to the gay porn? We know your secret Royce!

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Well, your “hunch” is as twisted as you are. Congrats! Wonderful example of the reprobate mind at work.

            Don’t know who your “we” is but perhaps you are referring to your daddy, Satan, or is it your fellow sodomite brethren?

            “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. (John 8:44)

            “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” (Rom. 3:13-14)

            “Behold, they belch forth with their mouth; Swords are in their lips, For, they say, “Who hears?” But You, O LORD, laugh at them;” (Psa. 59:7-8)

            “For there is no truth in their mouth; their inmost self is destruction; their throat is an open grave; they flatter with their tongue. Make them bear their guilt, O God; let them fall by their own counsels; because of the abundance of their transgressions cast them out, for they have rebelled against you.” (Psa 5:9-10)

            “His mouth is full of curses and deceit and oppression; Under his tongue is mischief and wickedness.” (Psa. 10:7)

            And you are dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you walk according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them you live in the lusts of your flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and are by nature children of wrath (Eph. 2:1-3)

          • Tom

            What does your religion have to do with me?

            Unless you’re a radical and you seek to force compliance in others…

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Having a little problem with Reading Comprehension? Perhaps you should try Grade School again.

            Now, why don’t you go back to your pathetic excuse of a life & live it out the best ya can while ya can. You’ll find out soon enough what my religion has to do with you. No different than all reprobates.

            You wanna spend Eternity in the torment of the Lake Of Fire, well, have at it bud.

          • Tom

            There’s that famous X-chun love and compassion.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Once again talking outta his six about something he’s clueless about. And still can’t bring himself to even see himself type Christ.

        • from heaven to hell

          Ack. No no, please oh please do not for a second give this dude the true Christian title. He is not and his anger paints everyone who believes in Christ as simple minded OR in need of some serious spiritual guidance.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Did you just say that I’m not a Christian? Coming from a God-hater that’s pretty rich! LOL

      • Tom

        What is a snowflake?

        “Oh, it’s gay/liberal that opens their mouth and doesn’t agree with My agenda!”

        I love how empathetic you are to the suffering of other human beings! I guess the PR of your faith is more important, right??

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          More snowflake meltdown. More total depravity from the spiritually-dead.

          • scotsims

            Ahem. It’s you lot who are always talking about sticking things down your throats.

          • Tom

            More quotes from a book that isn’t my holy text.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            No kidding! But they are quite accurate. I’m surprised you claim to have a “holy test”. What is it, Sexual Perversion 101?

          • Tom

            Thanks for your living example of what an X-chun is.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            You’re welcome. Thanks for showing everyone what a reprobate looks like and how they can’t even stand to see the word CHRIST

      • Tom

        I like how no matter what has happened to me… you still paint it as “my” fault, somehow.

        This reveals your bias for what it is.

        And, how am I a snowflake, exactly? And what was my “meltdown”?

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          I never said whatever happened to you was your fault. I said all your whining about it and harboring bitterness and resentment is your fault as well as whether you CHOOSE to engage in sexual immorality and that you WILL stand before Christ without excuse.

          As for how you are a snowflake and what your meltdown was it’s all there in black & white for all to see. Since you can’t see it ya might wanna ponder that awhile.

          • Fiona Blackburn

            Royce, people like you are the reason people like me are no longer Christians. “Ha Ha! You’ll pay when you’re burning in hell forever! Ha ha!”

            Good job, Christian.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            A wise man once said it is better to keep your mouth shut and not show your ignorance than open it and remove all doubt. You should work on your wisdom a bit.

            “Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools speak because they have to say something” – Plato

            C’mon back after you’ve been in the torment of the Lake Of Fire for, oh let’s say about a bazillion years, and tell me that! LOL Actually, I’d bet the farm that it won’t take ya but a nanosecond in the Lake Of Fire after seeing the face of Jesus to know that it was only your ignorance, pride, and love of sin that kept you from being a Christian.

            For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing, to one a fragrance from death to death, to the other a fragrance from life to life. Who is sufficient for these things? (2Co 2:15-16)

          • from heaven to hell

            Royce, please stop. You need to understand that it is NOT Christian to act how you’re acting. The way you talk to people leads anyone with a brain to assume that you are hurting and battling some inner demons. I’m not sure what it is. It’s also very safe to assume you are divorced or have never been married, because nobody would want to partner with someone so cold and hardheaded. Let go of your anger or you’re sure to be alone for life. To be a Christian is to lift and inspire, not bring folks down or belittle someone. I’ve worshipped God since I could walk, and I’ve met too many people claiming to be Christian. Don’t call yourself a Christian until you act like one. YOU are not to judge; it’s not your job; if you were a christian you’d know this. So stop it. Your behaviour makes other Christians cringe. Stop it.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Like I said before, coming from a God-hater that’s pretty rich. So you can save your armchair psychoanalysis of me because I ain’t buying it. It’s not surprising though. The Posers in Scripture accused Jesus of having a demon too.

            “because nobody would want to partner with someone so cold and hardheaded.”

            Ah yes, more demonstrably proven evidence that you’re a son of disobedience and child of wrath. Now run back to your daddy, Satan, and get another flaming arrow to fling.

            Meanwhile, I appreciate the blessings!

            Blessed are you when people insult you, mistreat you, and tell all kinds of evil lies about you because of me. (Matt. 5:11)

            “but those who rebuke the wicked will have delight, and a good blessing will come upon them.” (Pro 24:25)

            “Let go of your anger or you’re sure to be alone for life.”

            Get down off your self-appointed throne, stop being your own god, stop with the phony faux-omniscience brought on by the self-deluded, self-imposed psychotic narcissistic god-complex that is causing you to be like your daddy, Satan, with your false accusations. Btw, that wasn’t even a flaming arrow. Barely made the classification of a fiery dart. Swatted down like a mosquito without drawing any blood. Better tell your daddy, Satan, to give ya something more powerful.

            To be a Christian is to lift and inspire, not bring folks down or belittle someone.”

            Uh, no Skippy. To be a Christian is to be a slave to the Lord Jesus Christ and to be His follower. Not some namby-pamby effeminate snowflake that you’ve created in your own image. THAT statement right there, perhaps more than any other you’ve made, PROVES your jesus is NOT Jesus.

            “I’ve worshipped my god of my own making since I could walk”

            There FIFY. Let me guess, you asked Jesus into your heart at some Sunday School or regurgitated some prayer somebody told you to repeat after them, right? See Jer. 17:9 and take a little look-see at the heart you asked Jesus to take up residence in! I’ll ask the Holy Spirit to illuminate your mind to that Scripture.

            “and I’ve met too many people claiming to be Christian.”

            Yup. Ya meet him ever time ya look in the mirror and I’m about to prove it.

            “Don’t call yourself a Christian until you act like one.”

            You have NO clue what a Christian should look like because you have NO clue who Christ is or what He looks like. And here’s the PROOF:

            “YOU are not to judge; it’s not your job”

            And there it is Dipstick! ALL THE EVIDENCE one needs to see that you are of your daddy, Satan. Not only are we TO judge but Jesus Himself COMMANDS His followers TO judge!! Thank you for the fine public display of your Biblical ignorance, your desire to lead people to disobey Christ (which is what Satan does), and your being a false prophet.

            “if you were a christian you’d know this.”

            THAT folks is whatcha call a Giant Sequoia Tree sticking outta one’s eye socket. Like I always say, just let ’em talk. It’s never long before they reveal who they are and show who they belong to. Some bare their fangs and some come disguised as angels of light but they always totally discredit themselves by rejecting the Word of God and oftentimes by preaching/teachers others to disobey God as well.

            “So stop it. Your behaviour makes other Posers cringe too. Stop it.” There FIFY again.

            Btw, based on your idiotic comment above about God not caring at all about Sexuality, are you a practicing Homsexual, “Transgender”, or some other sexually perverted behavior for which you have not confessed and repented from?

            Can’t tell if you are a by-product of the Easy-Believism/Seeker-Sensitive/Just-ask-Jesus-into-your-heart false gospel or whether you just really have NO clue what a Christian even is. But would you like to? Would you like to know what one must do to be saved from their sins and inherit eternal life or would you rather just continue to cling to your disobedience, rebellion, and sins that are leading you to eternal torment in the Lake Of Fire?

          • scotsims

            And your ilk cries because they don’t want to sell a cookie to anyone who doesn’t look like or is of your religion.

            Keep judging, the surprise will come when you reach your ultimate reward.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            To the first I can only say that is a bold-faced lie. Is that the best ya got? NOTHING of any substance? I suppose if you wish to continue to spout the lies that are demonstrably and easily proven to be such and publicly embarrass yourself that is your prerogative to do so.

            “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.” (John 8:44)

            To the second, I will. Thank you very much. It is my desire and intention to obey Jesus in all He said as much as I possibly can.

            Thank you for the opportunity to shine my Light on your lies and to share the Truth of the Word of God.

          • scotsims

            You’re the one spouting off about supernatural creatures communicating with you. If you want to call out a liar look in the mirror.

            You are of your father…..

            I’d rather call Satan dad as he only killed 10 people, your god? Millions upon millions. True hell for me would be sharing room with you and the others like you. But, there is no heaven or hell. Something made up to keep the pissants in line.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            “You’re the one spouting off about supernatural creatures communicating with you. If you want to call out a liar look in the mirror.”

            Well, I’ll just take that in the context of your following comments…

            “You are of your father…..”

            Thank you. Glad you noticed.,

            “I’d rather call Satan dad”

            ‘Nuff said. Now we all know you the Liar is.

            “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.” (John 8:44)

            “True hell for me would be sharing room with you and the others like you.”

            And so you will get your wish. But, while there won’t be any children of God and followers of Christ there, the Lake Of Fire you’re headed for isn’t gonna be even remotely close to what you describe it as.

            “But, there is no heaven or hell.”

            Wrong. You’ll find out soon enough just how wrong you were.

          • scotsims

            Who cares. If indeed there were a heaven your lot won’t be there.

            And if there were heaven I run out screaming to get away from your. How tedious you are.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Who cares? People who understand the simple definition of Eternity. Anyone who not so foolish as to just live for their hedonistic pleasures of today.

            And thankfully, YOU aren’t the one who gets to decide who’s gonna make it into the Kingdom. The Truth is WE, Christians, will be the ONLY one’s there.

            There is a Heaven and you won’t have to worry your little self one iota about running out screaming. There will be no running and the screaming will begin the very nanosecond that Jesus hurls you into the Lake Of Fire.

            Thank you. I appreciate the blessing,.

            Blessed are you when people insult you, mistreat you, and tell all kinds of evil lies about you because of me. (Matt. 5:11)

            “but those who rebuke the wicked will have delight, and a good blessing will come upon them.” (Pro 24:25)

          • scotsims

            Well look what floated to the surface of the swamp, REVB

            True, I won’t be deciding who goes to heaven as there isn’t one except for those who believe in the occult/supernatural creatures who rule from the “clouds”. But from the literature I’ve read every religion – especially christians who are broken into thousands of sects – believes that are the only ones heaven-bound. So will it be just people from your sect, many who have radically different beliefs from your sect?

            Re: Matthew? All you’ve done is insult and tell evil lies.

            Wallow in your victimhood.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            A wise man once said it is better to keep your mouth shut and not show your ignorance than open it and remove all doubt. You should work on your wisdom a bit.

            “Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools speak because they have to say something” – Plato

          • Tom

            ^A loving Christian, ladies and gentlemen.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            You have NO idea what “Love” is. “Love” doesn’t aid, celebrate, approve of, endorse, support, or in any way participate in the death and eternal torment of another.

            And that can include Silence.

            To “Love” truly is to desire their well-being and to promote their TRUE flourishing as much as you can. Or, in other words, to seek God’s highest best for that person. Homosexuality can NOT do that.

            Do you love your neighbor enough to tell them they will spend Eternity in the torment of the Lake Of Fire if they don’t confess, repent, and surrender as a slave to the Lord Jesus Christ? Of course you don’t. You wanna see as many people burn for eternity with you as you can.

            And you wouldn’t know a lady or a gentleman either.

      • Angie

        “Christian Troll” should be an oxymoron, but not in our world. The Bible tells us
        “Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged:
        and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
        And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye,
        but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?”
        It is admonishing us to be merciful and forgiving knowing that our own time to be judged will come at last. You are breaking that injunction by your conduct.
        So many sins can lead to damnation according to the Bible. When Jesus tells you not to judge he’s warning you that setting your self in Jesus’ place as the judge of other souls is a form of blasphemy, an abomination, which is n fact, the one sin described as “unforgiveable”. Think before you condemn. We are all sinners according to the Word. You are not in the Judgment Seat.

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          Ah yes, so another Jezebel decides to twist Scripture for her own purposes just like Satan quoted Scripture to Jesus for his own purposes.

          Before I school you in what the verse actually says as well as other Scriptures, let me help you by telling you that when the spiritually dead try to read the Book of Life it’s like a blind man trying to read a road map before hopping in the car to drive. You have to get a heart transplant before you can have eyes to see.

          Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.” (John 8:47)

          “The unbeliever does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1st Cor. 2:14)

          “There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.” (2nd Peter 3:16)

          Now to your attempt to try and twist God’s Word and proven demonstration that you belong to Satan.

          “It is admonishing us to be merciful and forgiving knowing that our own time to be judged will come at last. You are breaking that injunction by your conduct.”

          No Jezebel, it is an INSTRUCTION on how to OBEY the COMMAND that Jesus gave in John 7:24. That is EVIDENCED by Verse 5 which YOU chose not to include in your false preaching. Why? Because you do the bidding of your daddy, Satan, and because had you done so folks with eyes to see would have seen the “AND THEN” and the “AND THEN” proves it is an instruction and shows what the real meaning of Verses 1-3 actually have. They would have also understood how to OBEY Verse 6 which REQUIRES Judging.

          And btw, why don’t you practice what you preach and STOP judging me!!! LOL Now HYPOCRITE who is really “breaking that injunction”? LOL

          “When Jesus tells you not to judge”

          Well, I’ve already established that is a lie. So, listen to what Jesus has to tell YOU about that:

          “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. (John 8:44)

          “he’s warning you that setting your self in Jesus’ place as the judge of other souls is a form of blasphemy, an abomination, which is n fact, the one sin described as “unforgiveable”.

          Well, there’s another fine example of complete and total Biblical ignorance AND hypocrisy. First, a I’ve already established it’s not a warning it’s an instruction. Biblical ignorance & false speaking for Christ #1. Second, as Ambassadors of Christ we (that leaves you out) speak FOR Jesus according to what He has said and His Word clearly says in NUMEROUS places that we can tell someone they are condemned already. Matt. 15:18, Mk. 7:21-23, Lk. 6:45 are just three. 1st Cor. 6:9-10, Eph. 5:5, 1st Tim. 1:10, Rev. 21:8 and 22:15 are five that speak specifically to Tom.

          And, had you continued to read Matt. 7 you would have seen where Jesus describe you and how to tells the false prophets and the sheep from the goats. So, can a Believer say one is condemned? Based on all those Scriptures and more ABSOLUTELY. Here the words of Jesus:

          “And this is the condemnation: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.” (John 3:19-20)

          Third, if what I did “is in fact” a form of blasphemy that is described as unforgivable then why don’t you just say so?

          The answer is because, once AGAIN, you’ve shown that you do NOT know what you’re talking about. Not all blasphemy is unforgivable but only blasphemy of the Holy Spirit where one attributes the work of the Holy Spirit to Satan. (Mk. 3) Something you’ve come MUCH closer to than I.

          And now let’s take you back to where you called me a “Christian Troll”. First it shows your ignorance of what a “troll” even is. But, that aside, let’s take a little look-see at what God has to say about YOU now that you’ve done that. Let’s take a little look-see at what God has to say about your false accusations and bearing false witness.

          How do you feel about being an abomination to the Lord? “He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous, both of them alike are an abomination to the Lord” (Proverbs 17:15).

          There are six things that the LORD HATES, seven that are an ABOMINATION to him: haughty eyes, a LYING TONGUE, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a FALSE WITNESS who breathes out LIES and one who sows discord among brothers. (Prov. 6:16-19)

          “A false witness will not go unpunished, And he who tells lies will not escape.” (Prov. 19:5)

          “A false witness will not go unpunished, And he who tells lies will perish.” (Prov. 19:9)

          ““For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, FALSE WITNESS, SLANDERS.” (Matt. 5:19)

    • Thisoldspouse

      By the look of your avatar, you are a militant activist. Maybe that’s why they “kicked you out,” or more likely you chose to leave because you refused to live under the reasonable rules of the home?

      • Tom

        Wow, the fact that you’re trying to make it seem as if I deserved to be kicked out tells me everything.

        To be honest, my father found me looking at gay porn. What a shocker… a teenage boy viewing porn. My own father had a sock drawer full of porn. He just kicked me out because I was looking at men instead of women.

        But I’m sure you’ll make up some reason as to why I deserved to be kicked out. You’ll even go so far as to criticize my picture.

        How sad…

    • Gecks

      Horrible thing that happened to you. Even people calling themselves Christians can do horrible things. The response should have been “We love you. We cannot condone the behavior, but we know you didn’t choose the feelings. We will walk with you in healing before God.”

      But it sounds like your parents didn’t actually fully live up to the title of ‘Baptist’ if your dad’s drawer was full of porn. People go through motions of Christianity all the time without fully surrendering their lives to Christ, which is the real measure of Christianity.

      I don’t know what your belief is now, but I can say that God has much more for you – an identity specifically for you alone. That identity does not share space with sin – not lust, not homosexuality, not any other sin.

      • from heaven to hell

        I love this!! I think you are one of the few people I know who gets the bigger picture. To love God is to love God. Period. Nothing complex about it. You can have a personal relationship with God, praise him and walk with him, and love either gender and God will still love and support you! That’s what I love to read and hear. Too many people insult God’s intelligence by assuming that he cares about such trivial nonsense as sexuality. Think about it, how does that even make sense, right!? Love this post, Gecks! God bless:)

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          More evidence this dude has NO clue who God is. God has made it clear as crystal what it means to love Him. Jn. 14:15.

          Too many people insult God’s intelligence by assuming that he cares about such trivial nonsense as sexuality.

          And this son of disobedience and child of wrath has the audacity and ignorance and TOTAL lack of fear of God to speak for Him in such false ways! Oh yeah, like God cared so little about sexuality that He speaks on the subject numerous times and instituted the Death Penalty of those who committed certain sexual behaviors and destroyed to cities for the sexual sin! Duh!!!

      • Tom

        My homosexuality is apart of me and isn’t a sin.

        I’m done with that belief.

        Goodbye.

    • Jeremy L

      I’m so sorry. I hope you are doing better now. The hypocrisy of your father sounds typical. The irrelevant clown Royce E. Van Blaricome, who I see decided it would be a good idea to subject you to more abuse you don’t deserve, got a divorce for example, as he unashamedly puts on his Facebook page. Notice also how evangelicals support child molesters and perpetrators of sexual assault as political candidates, so long as they are heterosexual Republicans who oppose abortion. The irony of them wanting to “protect babies” and “protect children” while supporting the likes of Roy Moore and defending parents who disown their gay kids is completely lost on them. Oppose abortion and same-sex marriage, and as far as evangelicals are concerned, you can “do no wrong”. Consider also how Osama bin Laden, who committed unspeakable crimes against humanity in the name of religion, had a considerable porn collection. Religious radicals are self-righteous hypocrites through and through. Evangelical Christians really aren’t that different from Islamic terrorists in how they use religion as an excuse to hurt people they hate for no good reason. The only reason they aren’t throwing gay people off roofs is because they know they couldn’t get away with it. I sincerely hope you have recovered from your abuse and wish all the best for you.

      • Royce E. Van Blaricome

        Just seeing this. After that childish little rant it’s easy to see why you have your profile as “Private” so nobody can see who you are. Quite understandable that you’d like to hide.

        And this is the condemnation: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. (John 3:19-20)

        You are quite correct in that I “unashamedly” list my marital status as Divorced. Now I fully understand you’re just doing your daddy, Satan’s, bidding and thought that was a little fiery dart you could throw but the TRUTH is that I have nothing to be ashamed about. I do appreciate you showing your true colors and your Biblical ignorance.

        “Notice also how evangelicals support child molesters and perpetrators of sexual assault as political candidates, so long as they are heterosexual Republicans who oppose abortion.”

        Boy howdy! How many flaming arrows did Satan put in your quiver? And you call me the “irrelevant clown”!! LOLOLOLOLOL

        Well, after hurling about a half dozen more I see you must’ve ran out and run back to your daddy, Satan, for some more.

        • Jeremy L

          I merely meant to help Tom because I empathize with him and want him to be okay. Did you expect no one would rebuke you for abusing an abuse victim?

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            So you admit that you actually “meant” to enable Tom in his sin. That’s not wanting him to be ok and it’s not loving him. As for what I’ve come to expect, I can quite assure you that I really don’t think there is anything that I don’t expect you Unbelievers to throw at me.

            As for “abuse”, you have no more clue as to what that is than you do what Love is.

            Like I said, just another snowflake having a meltdown and your latest comment doesn’t take away one iota from what I said. You will find out one day just who the “irrelevant clown” is.

            “But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and sexually immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Rev. 21:8)

            “Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.” (Rev 22:15)

            “He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous, both of them alike are an abomination to the Lord” (Proverbs 17:15).

            There are six things that the LORD HATES, seven that are an ABOMINATION to him: haughty eyes, a LYING TONGUE, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a FALSE WITNESS who breathes out LIES and one who sows discord among brothers. (Prov. 6:16-19)

            “A false witness will not go unpunished, And he who tells lies will not escape.” (Prov. 19:5)

            “A false witness will not go unpunished, And he who tells lies will perish.” (Prov. 19:9)

            ““For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, FALSE WITNESS, SLANDERS.” (Matt. 5:19)

          • Jeremy L

            When you truly are worried out of love that someone is going to hell, you don’t approach them by calling them snowflakes and screaming at them that they will go to hell, as you did. Now please stop causing a fuss by commenting on things posted 19 days ago. I swear, you’re the most annoying person on the internet.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            You must have me confused with someone else. I’m not worried at all. I know who God is, I know what His Word says, and I know that those on there way to Hell chose to reject the Truth which they KNOW for God has made it clear to them.

            Thanks for showing your Biblical ignorance AGAIN. But in the future I’ll try to restrict my name-calling to Viper, Satan, son of disobedience, child of wrath, son of Satan, sepulcher full of dead men’s bones, blind guide and serpent as Jesus did.

            As to your request, I’ll comment on whatever I doggone well choose. When I see it if it’s worth commenting on I’ll do so.

            And btw, you really shouldn’t swear.

            The wise of heart will receive commands, But a babbling fool will be ruined. (Prov. 10:8)

            Doing wickedness is like sport to a fool, And so is wisdom to a man of understanding. (Prov. 10:23)

            The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, But a wise man is he who listens to counsel. (Prov. 12:15)

            A wise man once said it is better to keep your mouth shut and not show your ignorance than open it and remove all doubt. You should work on your wisdom a bit.

            “Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools speak because they have to say something” – Plato

        • scotsims

          God said that marriage is for life.

          “Notice also how evangelicals support child molesters…….

          What about the Duggar family. I see no one is in jail there.

          You support Trump wholeheartedly and that man will go down in history as one of the biggest perverted sex pervert.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Oh my, how the by very definition of “internet trolls” from Psychology Today (see above) love to show all they got.

            I know of NO evangelicals who support child molesters.

            You ask about the Duggar family, I’ll address that momentarily but first let me just say your faux omniscience for your psychotic self-imposed narcissistic (see above PT definition) god-complex has failed you again. I did not vote for Trump and I definitely do NOT support him wholeheartedly.

            Trump may well go down in history as just that. I don’t know. Unlike yourself I am not under the delusion that would lead me to think I could possibly know what History will say. I tend to think it may be a runoff between him and Bill Clinton though.

            Now to your little fiery dart toward the Duggars and by association Christians (which I’m pretty sure is your real target):

            No one should be in jail for what happened there and the fact that you think it is says almost all that needs to be said except for what the Duggar’s said themselves. So let’s get some FACTS straight:

            1) Josh Duggar: “Twelve years ago, as a young teenager, I acted inexcusably for which I am extremely sorry and deeply regret.” I wonder if you’re one of those who spread the lie that none of the Duggar’s ever claimed that there was any wrongdoing.

            2) Josh Duggar was a CHILD himself when the inappropriate behavior was done. I wonder if you are one of those who call him a Pedophile and treat the situation as though he were an ADULT!

            3) From CNN: “Jessa Duggar Seewald and Jill Duggar Dillard said their brother began inappropriately touching them before they were teenagers. Dillard said she was 12 and Seewald was “9 or 10,” she said.

            In the interview, which was recorded Wednesday, the sisters spoke in defense of their brother, who is now 27. He’s not a rapist or pedophile, Seewald said.

            “I was one of the victims so I can speak out,” she told Fox. “In Josh’s case, he was a boy, young boy in puberty, and a little too curious about girls and that got him into some trouble,” she said. “And he made some bad choices, but really the extent of it was mild inappropriate touching on fully clothed victims. Most of it while girls were sleeping.”

            “We didn’t even know about it until he went and confessed it to our parents”

            According to the interviews the Duggar’s conducted with several media outlets and the consistent information that they put forth publicly – NONE of them did anything wrong. In fact, I would wager that instead of sluffing it off as just “kids will be kids” or trying to sweep it under the rug because of the “celebrity status” at the time, they in fact did MORE than most would have given the same situation.

          • scotsims

            RE: The Duggars. you’ve bent yourself into a pretzel saying he was just a teen ager. He was 14 years old & producing sperm & hormones. If a boy is 14 and getting erections and is ready to go, that is a manJews have Bar Mitzvahs when their sons are 13. Duggar molested his underage sister which is against the law and should have gone to a juvenile center. Period. Or maybe you can show us God’s law to excuse him.

            Josh molests his sisters (they avoided the fact that he had all those little brothers – in many cases a Pedo goes after both sexes), gets a vacation, mom and dad do nothing or talk about it until years later when it goes public. They put a story together and stuck with it.

            Hypocrite.

            If you had wanted to get some facts straight you’d have a blank sheet of paper.It’s all OK if a christian does it.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            “RE: The Duggars. you’ve bent yourself into a pretzel saying he was just a teen ager. He was 14 years old”

            Well, we gotta real rocket scientist on our hands here. You bent yourself into a pretzel not recognizing that a fourTEEN year old isn’t a TEEN. Duh.

            “& producing sperm & hormones. If a boy is 14 and getting erections and is ready to go, that is a man”

            Well, I see that self-imposed god-complex is in full bloom. First of all, at 14 he may not have started puberty or had just started and unless YOU somehow have access to his medical records or some other authoritative sources you you’ve just demonstrated your delusion, bias, and bigotry once again. Last I saw YOU didn’t get to decide what a “man” is.

            But let’s test your theory, shall we? Full-grown ADULT 30yo MAN stands naked in front of a mirror and says, “Boy howdy, I am one good looking WOMAN!!” Man or woman?

            “Jews have Bar Mitzvahs when their sons are 13. Duggar molested his underage sister which is against the law and should have gone to a juvenile center. Period.”

            False. Period. I’ll get back to that in just a moment but first let’s point out your bigotry and hatred again…

            “Or maybe you can show us God’s law to excuse him.”

            Now, should you ever decide to stop your little bigoted crusade against Christians and step outta your delusion you might wanna try to actually educate yourself and become informed before spouting off at the mouth. Let Google be your friend!

            “Child molestation is a very serious sex crime that can expose a defendant to extended jail time and a lifetime of stigma. The Department of Justice defines child molestation as contacts or interactions such as inappropriate physical contact between a child and adult where the child is used for the sexual stimulation of the perpetrator. ”

            “Child-on-child sexual abuse is further differentiated from normative sexual play or anatomical curiosity and exploration ”

            And THAT is what happened with Josh. NORMATIVE anatomical curiosity and exploration.

            So now that you have totally discredited yourself AGAIN the rest of your evil, wicked commentary that only reflects your heart (Matt. 15:18, Mk. 7:21-23, *& Lk. 6:45) doesn’t even need to be addressed except your last comment with a slight, much more truthful, twist…

            YOU put a story together and stuck with it. Hypocrite!

          • scotsims

            You are delusional.

            It’s pointless to deal with a person who is psychologically impaired, a Trump Troll or a Russian bot.

            “And THAT is what happened with Josh. NORMATIVE anatomical curiosity and exploration”

            That’s where you f*ck*d up.

            “Child-on-child sexual abuse is further differentiated from normative anatomical curiosity and exploration.”

            You did not comprehend what was written.

            “further differentiated from normative…..”

            The key word is differentiated. That means it wasn’t normal to commit the act.

            Get it?

            DIFFERENTIATED.

            Look it up.

            That statement says that the abuse Josh committed was not normal.

            Any one will tell you that you didn’t understand the statement.

            Find an adult to proofread your statements so you don’t make a fool out of yourself again.

            Also: I am not bigoted. I do have a problem with people such as you who project their bigotry to others.

            Your statement is childish, ignorant and full of ad hominem attacks. The mote is in your eke.

            Don’t bother to answer.

            BLOCKED.

            SMH

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            I see you’re confused about what “delusional” means.

            I also see that you’re Reading Comprehension is as low as your morals. I already said I did NOT vote for Trump. I have also criticized Trump numerous times here and elsewhere. How plain does it need to be for you to comprehend.

            Uh, no. That’s not where I messed up or made a mistake. Do you kiss your momma with that mouth. When one has to resort to profanity in their argument, especially vulgarities like the F-bomb, you can pretty well know they’ve lost the argument.

            Thanks for proving your Reading Comprehension is so low. And nice try at attempting to deceive. It is, however, a sign of extremely low intelligence, complete dishonesty, or just an all out evil, wicked act of perpetuating a lie by actually try to twist what was said when anybody can simply scroll up ONE comment and see the original quote! DUH Here it is again. Maybe you can get it right this time.

            “Child-on-child sexual abuse is further differentiated from normative sexual play or anatomical curiosity and exploration ”

            What the “further” means is that child-on-child sexual above is a LONG ways FROM that which is NORMATIVE. It’s a juxtaposition. Get a dictionary if you need it for that.

            Btw, one sign of being “delusional” is seeing things as you want them to be and not as they really are. That’s what bias, bigotry, and hatred will do.

            I’d suggest your not try to twist that again because Josh’s sisters said that is EXACTLY what happened. He was a little too curious.

          • scotsims

            Differentiated from normative.

            Different from normal.

            What about that don’t you get?

            Why are you trying – and failing – to do? Excuse the pervert?

            How do the sisters and babysitter know what happened when he molested them? They were asleep!

            You berate me for using f*ck, but your comment is one long ad hominem attack.

            The evidence is there. The delusional one is you.

            SMH

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Thanks for showing how blind one can be to the obvious. Even after repeated attempts to help you gain clarity.

            Now that you’ve continued to publicly discredit and embarrass yourself, I guess the only question that remains is whether you will continue to do so.

          • scotsims

            (yawn)

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            A wise man once said it is better to keep your mouth shut and not show your ignorance than open it and remove all doubt. You should work on your wisdom a bit.

            “Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools speak because they have to say something” – Plato

          • scotsims

            One long ad hominem attack while playing victim.

            “…is further differentiated from normative ….” = Further (more) different than normal.

            Gasbag.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            More delusion and public display of blindness. It’s almost amazing that it took you 18 days to come up with that.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            I was pretty sure I answered this. No clue what happened to it. Since Scotsims has blocked me I won’t waste my time addressing his lies except to say his own words say all that needs to be said and that I’m not the one who is delusional and has a comprehension problem. Here is the statement again:

            “Child-on-child sexual abuse is further differentiated from normative sexual play or anatomical curiosity and exploration ”

            Scotsims doesn’t understand what “further differentiated FROM” means. What Josh did, by his sisters own admission was “anatomical curiosity”.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            I answered Scotsims but evidently it’s not showing up due to his blocking me. Which I frankly appreciate but, just in case anyone else is confused by his reply, I will point one thing out.

            I won’t waste my time addressing his lies except to say his own words say all that needs to be said and that I’m not the one who is delusional and has a comprehension problem. Here is the statement again:

            “Child-on-child sexual abuse is further differentiated from normative sexual play or anatomical curiosity and exploration ”

            Scotsims doesn’t understand what “further differentiated FROM” means. What Josh did, by his sisters own admission was “anatomical curiosity”.

          • Jack

            How did the victim know the abuser’s motivation?

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Given that God has not seen fit to share His attribute of Omniscience with me, I don’t know. You’d have to ask her I suppose.

            When someone does something and hurts you, how do you know if it was accidental, an innocent mistake, or with evil and malice intent?

            Why does the Law draw a distinction between “Child-on-child sexual abuse” and “normative sexual play or anatomical curiosity and exploration “

          • Jack

            I’m unaware of such a legal distinction. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I await receipt of further information

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Google or perhaps a public library.

          • Jack

            Not that interested. You just blew a teaching moment.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            LOL. Almost can’t believe you left that comment for others to see. Almost. By your own words I didn’t miss anything. But I did save some pearls for others.

          • Jack

            You’re a peach. You make claims for others to research. You then say “I note that you make a claim but offer no proof,” which is precisely what you do. When asked for you proof, you advise research.

            And you see nothing wrong, ironic, contrary, in your words.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Actually, no. I’m human. As for the rest, that’s correct. It was done in the hopes that you’d see your hypocrisy of making a claim, TWICE, showing NOTHING whatsoever to back it up either time, and then telling me to give proof for my claim to the contrary.

            I will say for someone “not that interested” you sure seem to act otherwise. Or is the typical definitive trolling behavior just unable to be held in check?

          • Jack

            We’re done. I asked for information. You refused and decided to attack me.

            That’s all I need to know.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Well, bye. But you’re wrong about all you need to know. You could start with Google or a Dictionary and look up the word “attack”. Moreover, “that’s all I need to know” is a long stretch from the reality and truth.

            You could’ve learned from this but you refused to do so.

    • Jack

      <—— never abused.

  • Angie

    A child has their own immature and developing sexuality. They experience attraction, what we would call “crushes,’ from a young age. Many young children come to recognize very early which gender they are attracted to. One young boy of 12 that I was talking with explained his feelings like this to me:
    “I like girls a lot. They make really good friends, but certain boys make me feel special, nervous and tingly. I never feel tingly with girls”. He wasn’t really thinking about sex, yet, but he already knew who made him “feel tingly”. That is inborn. If your God condemns what is inborn and harmless I cannot honor him as wise.

    • Royce E. Van Blaricome

      Thanks for the public confession that you’d rather honor a god of your own making and spend eternal torment in the Lake Of Fire that surrender your life as a slave to the Lord Jesus Christ and the ONLY true God.

      (Not to mention a total Biblical ignorance of what is “inborn” and that is SIN and it is hardly harmless.

      For the wages of sin is death (Rom. 6:23)

      • Angie

        I didn’t say I would prefer to honor a God of my own making. You are outting words in my mouth because you like to hear your self talk apparently. I believe Jesus actually taught the Apokatastasis, which says that the “lake of fire itself’ is eternal, but not the soul’s sojourn there. But you wouldn’t even know what that means because you only use your own interpretation of the scriptures instead of actually studying them in any depth or sincerity, and you only honor the scriptures that Catholic Church decided were Biblical all those many years ago. You are a puppet to people who are no longer alive. It’s pathetic and I feel sorry for you. Prove any kind of harm beyond your symbolic “Lake of fire” caused by homosexuality. It harms noone. YOU”RE A TROLL.

      • from heaven to hell

        I don’t think she deleted anything. Disqus is finicky sometimes. Anyway, my heart and prayers go out to you, Royce. With your intense and erratic posts, I can tell you are certainly dealing with some inner demons (Not real demons, Royce, it’s just a figure of speech). I don’t know what happened in your life that has left you so bitter and quick to pick fights with strangers and call then nasty names, but I can empathise with feeling down in the dumps. I lost my dad a few years ago and I was heartbroken. I didn’t notice the change, but I became a bitter person and I found myself doing just that you’re doing. I inadvertently brought people down because I was down. The thing is, like you, I didn’t think I had a problem. I was convinced everyone else was wrong and there was no convincing be otherwise. You will see one day that your conduct is from that of a broken spirit, and, Royce, I’m so sorry you’re hurting. Try to remember that there is no long term joy when it begins with pain. Calling people names and making hurtful comments will only make you feel awful later. And I know you want God to be proud of your work, so I k know on some level you know that name calling is so very wrong and not what God would want. To be Christian is to lift and inspire. Your job here is to show people the light of Christ, not the darkness of Satan. Satan wants you to turn people away from God, which is what you’re doing. I know you don’t mean to and I know this isnt who you are. My thoughts go out to you and I hope you find peace with whatever has left you feeling the need to hound strangers online. Good luck to you, and God bless

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          “I don’t think she deleted anything.”

          How would you know? Faux omniscience failing you now? Maybe you should’ve just stopped with “I don’t think”.

          “Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools speak because they have to say something” – Platoe

          “Anyway, my heart and prayers go out to you, Royce. With your intense and erratic posts, I can tell you are certainly dealing with some inner demons ”

          Would that be the Jer. 17:9 heart and who ya praying to? God doesn’t hear the prayer of an Unbeliever until they’ve surrendered their life as a slave to Jesus Christ and been Born Again. God hears the prayers of His children.

          And I see your faux omniscience didn’t stay away long. Your armchair psychiatry practice is as sound as your theology. In other words, it’s utterly lacking.

          “I don’t know what happened in your life that has left you so bitter and quick to pick fights with strangers and call then nasty names”

          You don’t know because you don’t know what you’re talking about. Now ya little Viper and white-washed tomb full of a dead man’s bones why don’t ya run back to your daddy, Satan, and get another flaming arrow to fling. And this time tell him to do a better job because that bunch of garbage was swatted down like a mosquito before it could draw blood. All you accomplished there was showing a wittle snowflake having a meltdown.

          As for the rest of your verbal vomit, I appreciate your public confession that you’re projecting. It’s a GREAT example of one that’s blind and can’t see it. You will see one day that your conduct is from that of a DEAD spirit. Only then it’ll be too late. But your eyes will be WIDE open as you’re hurled into the Lake Of Fire and they will remain so for ALL Eternity.

          And now for the edification of anyone else who might be reading your tripe, here’s a little piece of evidence of who you belong to and why you’re saying the things you are. You say:

          “Calling people names and making hurtful comments will only make you feel awful later.”

          Ok folks, I don’t expect this reprobate mind to comprehend that but ask yourself this question: How awful did Jesus feel when he called people names and made hurtful comments? Hmmmm???? How about when the Holy Spirit calls one a God-hating, spiritually-dead, totally-depraved, son of disobedience and child of wrath who if they had any smarts at all would accept the conviction and cry out in surrender? Hmmm?

          And THAT folks is how you can know people like “From Heaven To Hell” are of their daddy, Satan. He or she is an Accuser of the Brethren that bears False Witness and tries their best to lead people into the eternal torment they will soon be experiencing. And they do it all in the name of “Love” and God and His Word.

          “To be Christian is to lift and inspire. Your job here is to show people the light of Christ, not the darkness of Satan.”

          “Satan wants you to turn people away from God, which is what you’re doing.”

          Well, one who has their daddy as Satan and is a child of wrath would certainly know more about what Satan wants than I would. Or maybe not. Since they’re deaf, dumb, and blind to the Truth. That does, however, pose a great question for folks who truly wanna understand God’s Word and get their theology in order… How does one turn a God-hating, son of Satan, and enemy of God away from God?

          And here’s another, how utterly impotent does your god have to be if a mere mortal man can turn somebody away from it? I serve God whose power is much more than any mere man.

          FHTH is just another God-hating troll who I suppose is posing as a Christian (though I don’t recall them even giving that admission) slamming another Christian for telling them the Truth about one’s sin because that’s just not “enticing” to those who desire to cling to their sin.

          God says the Unbeliever is spiritually-dead (Eph. 2:1-3), does not seek Him (Rom. 3:10-12), that no one comes to Christ unless The Father draws them (Jn. 6:44), that the Cross is an offense (Gal. 5:11), and that Christians are like the stench from death to death to them (2Cor. 2:16).

          Moreover, God says the Christian must die to himself, pick up his cross, and be a slave that follows a new Master. God says the Christian WILL suffer, have trials and tribulations, and be hated.
          Now why would anyone think Christianity is supposed to be “enticing”.

          Christianity is not “enticing” but it is Salvific. And all the above pales in comparison to the torment they will endure for ALL Eternity in the Lake of Fire. Now compare the Truth I’ve given couples with and supported by the Scriptures provided with the liberal, namby-pamby, empty snowflake feel-good FEELINGS-based philosophy of FHTH and then you decide who you wanna listen to and whose advice ya wanna follow.

          “I know you don’t mean to and I know this isnt who you are.”

          Oh trust me dude when I tell ya that you don’t know squat and this is EXACTLY who I am. Just like I know who you are. In case you forgot, listen to what God says to YOU:

          And you are dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you walk according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them you live in the lusts of your flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and are by nature children of wrath (Eph. 2:1-3)

          “Good luck to you, and God bless”

          And there ya go folks. FHTH theology in a nutshell.

    • Royce E. Van Blaricome

      It looks like you deleted your post that admits you’re a Universalist, denies the truth of ECT, calls the Lake Of Fire “symbolic” and says:

      “But you wouldn’t even know what that means because you only use your own interpretation of the scriptures instead of actually studying them in any depth or sincerity, and you only honor the scriptures that Catholic Church decided were Biblical all those many years ago. You are a puppet to people who are no longer alive. It’s pathetic and I feel sorry for you. Prove any kind of harm beyond your symbolic “Lake of fire” caused by homosexuality. It harms noone. YOU”RE A TROLL.”

      Why did you do that? Too much evidence that it is YOU who are the Troll, an apostate, and the one “setting your self in Jesus’ place”?

      Please, go right ahead and post it and anything else. I love it when the Posers talk. They always reveal themselves for who they are. For, just like I said, Jesus Himself said it is what comes outta the mouth that defiles a man and reveals their heart.

      • scotsims

        You’re stating that some religious are more christian than those of a different sect? There are tens of thousands of different sects and only yours possess the word?

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          Correct.

          “I and the Father are one.” (John 10:30)

          “Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6)

          “Whoever has seen me has seen the Father.” (John 14:9)

          Jesus claimed to be God. Either He is who He said He is, a Liar, or a Lunatic.

          Take your pick. I’m going with God.

          • scotsims

            You suffer from religious hysteria. Counseling is available.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            That would be what one calls a Giant Sequoia Tree sticking outta your eye socket. I suggest you make full use of the counseling for which you speak.

            Better yet, I suggest you get saved. Would you like to know how?

            So much for rational thought. Carry own snowflake…

          • scotsims

            Thanks for an illuminating self portrait / description of yourself.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Try harder. You’re not doing very well. Nana nana boo boo. I’m rubber and you’re glue…

          • scotsims

            Did you pick up those little phrases from your victims?

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            “Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools speak because they have to say something” – Plato

          • scotsims

            That’s a very great definition of you.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            “Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools speak because they have to say something” – Plato

            Or perhaps that’s over your head and I should use “I’m rubber, you’re glue…”

          • scotsims

            I see that no matter happens you’ll have yourself to love.

            (yawn)

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Absolutely. And I see you don’t love yourself. Which means you can’t love others. Which is no surprise because you have no clue what Love is. Sad.

          • scotsims

            Again believes can read minds.

            Believes there’s god who loves you.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Again, he shows what a pathetic existence he has in not only trolling Christian pages but being compelled to come back with such a piteous retort after 3 months! And on top of that it’s incoherent! LOL

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Your faux-omniscience from the self-imposed deluded and psychotic god-complex has failed you miserably. Counseling is available.

            But thanks for the compliment and the blessing. It’s pleasing to see that the Truth is having just the effect that God said it would.

            Just another fine display of all the Liberals and God-haters have. And probably wonder why there are so many school shootings. All the while demonstrating that civility is a foreign concept to you and your ilk.

          • scotsims

            ……faux omniscience from the self-impose…..god complex…Where did you cut and paste that one? It’s over your head.

            Idiot.

            Cut and paste from a source that’s too much/

            Hee Hee

            SMH

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            It’s actually of my own accord. I’m flattered that you think it’s C&P worthy though.

          • scotsims

            I did not say it’s good. Gassy, though.

          • scotsims

            Share your hysteria elsewhere.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Uh, no. Jesus told His followers, which I am one, to shine their light before men. That includes even the reprobates.

            Thanks for the public display of all ya got.

    • jessica birchfield

      It’s called mind manipulation idiot. The elites are doing it through the media. A sinful mind is more malleable and easier to control. Read anything the Nazis,the kgb, the elitists , ex satanists or any of their victims who released their shackles. Stop spreading the word of man people. It shows you are feeble minded and that to me is very sad.

      • Angie

        Um…Yikes! that’s a hatful of crazy talk!

        *[image: Picture] *

        • Jessica Birchfield

          Wow you feel big and mighty now angie?Take your sick “children are sexual” talk elsewhere,you sound like a priest trying to explain his sick actions to a jury.

  • Chris

    Lol this article is ridiculous. The leaps
    in logic and half-ass research are worth
    a chuckle

    • Jim Deferio

      Read my comment above. You are seriously wrong and very deceived. I’m often shocked by the number of homosexualists who have come up to me telling me that they were sexually molested as a child.

      One man who I helped lead out of homosexuality told me that over 95% of people who identify as “homosexual” have been sexually molested as a child. I told him that there was no way in the world he could prove that because in scientific polling most of these people would not admit that to a pollster. Past surveys have shown at the very most about 46% for men and about 22% for women. He agreed. He had arrived at his statistic after about 14-15 years in homosexuality and attending many homosexualist meetings in which people there opened up to each other about what had happened to them.

      • jessica birchfield

        The trolls on here are most likely having sex with children. They accept sin as truth. You can’t fight with them because theyre mind controlled through sin. The Nazis, the kgb, European elitists and sickos in the American political system they know this. I could quote about ten MLKJR quotes to all these small minds and they wouldn’t know what to say. Just kill em with love Jim. You’re a good person trying to help others see light. You are light and you embrace it. They say Satan comes in light and he or it rather is a discieving light. You are coming from a place of compassion and you have only merely talked on individuals stories not generalizing. But even so I would say that generalization is truth because all my gay friends have been abused.its unfortunate and it should stop,this is why they say it is sin in the Bible because eventually the pure and vulnerable are the very victims and that I don’t care if it’s PC or not is wrong!

  • scotsims

    So you’re saying that the gay population -2% of Americans, molest all the children every year? You’re looking for a scapegoat for your own actions

    • sharereality1

      It’s not a coincidence that catholic priests have child abuse scandals and also a huge % of priests are known to be gay.

      • scotsims

        That’s your scapegoat and also a non sequitur,

        No, 98% of child molesters are male and female.

        Don’t blame your sins and failings on others.

        • sharereality1

          The % of priests that are molesting are far higher than the average population and that is just a fact… and it is also a fact that a huge % of priests die of aids because of homosexuality. So if you want to ignore reality that the two are related – that is your choice. It might feel good to live in a politically correct bubble, but personally I prefer to face reality then stick my head in a hole in the ground and try to pretend whatever I want.

          • scotsims

            The percentage of the priests molesting is higher than Heteros, but, there are tens of millions more heterosexual males who molest children – there are 17,000 priests in the US, of course not all heteros and gays molest children. Gays with 1.5% of population.

            (YAWN)

          • scotsims

            I used the wrong information.

            Apologies.

  • Jim Deferio

    Over the last 14 years I have preached and witnessed at over 80 homosexual events (parades & festivals) in 18 different cities and I have had numerous homosexualists come up to me and tell me that they were sexually molested as a child. THAT was their gateway in homosexuality! Two young women on two separate ocassions, one in Buffalo, NY and another in Wilkes-Barre, PA, told me that their brother had raped them.
    A young man in Harrisburg, PA said that when he was younger a man raped him and “now I’m gay”. At the same gay pride festival in Harrisburg, PA, a young woman came up to me and said that when she was 14 years old four men held her down and raped her with a rake handle. She says she now has NO feelings of attraction toward men.

    There have been numerous others who shared their tragic stories with me.

    • So you’re saying that if women are sexually molested by men, they swear off men for life, but if men are sexually molested by men, they become attracted to men. And there’s no inconsistency in that logic? Yes, many in the LGBTQ+ community have been sexually molested, but to say that this caused their sexuality to change is reasoning that is 100% based upon the logical fallacy of correlation equating causation.

      • Jim Deferio

        The error is with your thinking that similar causes produce exact responses in complicated beings such as humans. You also made a straw man argument and purposely misstated what was said in order to argue with the misstatement. Do you need matches?

        Here’s one study. I’ll cite paste the abstract because sometimes I get deleted if I post a link.
        It’s in: Archives of Sexual Behavior, February 2011, Volume 40, Issue 1, pp 155–168

        “Sexual orientation consists of multiple components. This study investigated both sexual identity and same-sex sexual behavior. Data came from the New Zealand Mental Health Survey, a nationally representative community sample of New Zealanders aged 16 years or older, interviewed face-to-face (N = 12,992, 48% male). The response rate was 73.3%. Self-reported sexual identity was 98.0% heterosexual, 0.6% bisexual, 0.8% homosexual, 0.3% “Something else,” and 0.1% “Not sure.” Same-sex sexual behavior with a partner was more common: 3.2% reported same-sex sexual experience only and 1.9% reported both experience and a relationship. For analysis of childhood and lifecourse, five sexuality groups were investigated: homosexual, bisexual, and heterosexual divided into those with no same-sex sexual experience, experience only, and experience and relationship. The non-exclusively heterosexual groups were more likely to have experienced adverse events in childhood. Educational achievement and current equivalized household income did not differ systematically across the sexuality groups. Only 9.4% of the exclusively heterosexual lived alone, compared with 16.7% of bisexuals and 19.0% of homosexuals. Heterosexuals were more likely than bisexuals or homosexuals to have ever married or had biological children, with differences more marked for males than for females. Heterosexuals with no same-sex sexual experience were more likely to be currently married than the other two heterosexual groups. Restricting comparisons to heterosexual, bisexual, and homosexual identification ignores the diversity within heterosexuals. Differences between the bisexual and homosexual groups were small compared with the differences between these groups and the exclusively heterosexual group, except for sex (80.8% of bisexuals were female).”

        • Not a straw man if I’m directly addressing what you said.

          Also, that study would further back up my claims of false correlation. If less than a quarter of the LGBTQ+ community studied were sexually abused, then that hardly fits with your “sexual abuse causes alternative sexualities” theory. What about the other 80+%? Correlation does not equate causation.

          • Jim Deferio

            There was absolutely NOTHING in my original comment that would have led you to this conclusion:
            “So you’re saying that if women are sexually molested by men, they swear off men for life, but if men are sexually molested by men, they become attracted to men.”

            THAT was a straw man and a red herring.

            I can cite numerous other studies. One thing about sociological surveys is that people are rarely forthright with those conducting such research. This is why sociology, psychology, cultural anthropology, politics, and other human studies are NOT science.

            However, the SCIENCE over the last thirty years clearly show that no one is born transgendered or homosexual.

            So, you’re saying that people who engage in homosexuality do so for no other reason other than that they are INSANE?

          • You used anecdotal evidence as proof that homosexuality is caused by abuse. Aside from anecdotal evidence being even less scientific than all the fields of study you claim aren’t real science, you are drawing conclusions based on various anecdotes that present situations with results that are literally the opposite of each other – based on your anecdotal evidence, the only thing that could be concluded is that your test sample consists of people of different genders that have had opposite reactions to getting sexually abused. One is repulsed by the gender they were abused by and one is attracted to it. It doesn’t add up. Was it a pithy comment? Absolutely. But not one that was unrelated.

            So, you’re telling me that I’m supposed to believe that all the members of the LGBTQ+ community are simply being less honest than the heterosexuals that were polled in this study? Based on what? This is the study that you brought up as proof and now you’re telling me that it doesn’t count because it doesn’t actually prove anything unless you make assumptions about who was being honest.

            And, no, SCIENCE has determined no such thing regarding an individual being born transgender or homosexual. The scientific community has done studies with a wide range of results – often with results that directly contradict each other. At this point, the most widely accepted scientific view of a person’s sexuality and gender is that they are a result of multiple factors – basically, that it is a combination of Nature AND Nurture and not either/or. Which is the same as every aspect of who a person is.

            I won’t even bother responding to your comment about insanity. If I were using your comments as any indication, the LGBTQ+ community can only be filled with liars or the insane. Just remember that you don’t believe psychology is a real science, anyway!

          • Jim Deferio

            Yes, my original comment was purely anecdotal. Duh! It doesn’t take a genius to recognize that!
            All of psychological and sociological research is anecdotal but on a larger scale. And these disciplines are NOT a science but if you think that “science” is the only way one can attain knowledge then you are even more dumb than what I already think about you.

            In fact, the statement:
            “Science discovers truth”, is a philosophical statement not a scientific statement because the scientific method cannot analyze that statement.

            Here’s another:
            A friend who came out of homosexuality three months after telling me he was “born gay” and who had lived as a homosexual for 14 years, told me that at least 95% of the people who are homosexual were sexually molested as a child. He says that he knows because he has been in many meetings where the people were asked about their past and they confessed to other homosexuals what had happened to them.
            I told him that the research shows about 45-48% of men claim that sexual molestation was the gateway in homosexuality while about 20-22% of women claim that. I told him that there was no way most people would divulge such personal info to researchers who they don’t know and probably will never trust. He agreed.

            I personally know numerous EX-homosexuals. No one is born a homosexual. There are only males and females who were born with sexual reproductive organs designed by their DNA for the OPPOSITE sex, not the same sex. To use them with the same sex is irrational, perverted, uncivil and unnatural. It would be like trying to eat by stuffing French fries in your ears. To use the reproductive system in conjunction with the digestive system is insane. People who identify as homosexual or trans have a mental disorder. Stinking thinking!

          • Hmm. I’ve responded twice and the post isn’t going through. Not sure why. Apologies if you end up getting a doubled-up response. Both responses were pretty much the same, though.

          • Jim Deferio

            I already answered you.

  • markd4lyph

    It should be noted that studies have been done that show gay men are no more likely to molest than the per capita general population and that the thrust of this article is not about the liklihood of gays to molest. Its about the overwhelming evidence that molestation is a contributing factor in homosexual development. In fact most men who molest are married, highly trusted and hold respected places in the community and even church.
    In my experience the secondary variable that combines with molestation to determine which victims become gay is a “father deficiency” whereby wholesome male affection and affirmation is sorely lacking due to emotionally distant absent male role models.
    This is very common in rural areas where the leathery farmer who doesnt do feelings or communication well and doesnt know why his son is so soft and effeminate. Also a military officer can be a overly distant and tough father. They pulls away or foster rejection as they become frustrated with failed attempts to masculinize the son through traditional rugged male activities. The child draws closer to mother and begins to model his identity there. By the time puberty hits his father hunger becomes overly informed by his premature and forced sexual trauma. The desire for a man love becomes sexualized.
    In the mean time the children at school or church begin to whisper and mock the clearly effeminate demeanor of the child. They have in past decades tried to hide or deny to others or themselves thier emerging homosexual developement. Now younger and younger kids are identifying openly at younger ages because of evolving social norms. By the time the teen graduates they move from the pressure and shame of rural America to a strong urban gay community. Thus the pilgrimages to places like San Francisco, Vegas etc. In college and gay communities they are provided a highly intellectualized set of rationalizations that provide the finalized solidification of their permanent gay identity. When they become so strong in this identity they return home and come out as gay. All attempts to convert them back or change their minds merely incites explosive anger and resentment rooted in the years of shame and rejection.
    They are in bondage to homosexuality.
    With lesbians the formula is typically rooted in bitterness towards men as a result of trauma, rape, abuse, or inability to attract male attention because of obesity, awkward looks or personality. They may fall into the arms of understanding and affection of other females and that deep feeling of acceptance evolves into sexual attraction.
    These are broad commanalities I have observed and by no means definitave or conclusive in all cases.

    • scotsims

      Post your lame sexual fantasies elsewhere.

      Gays are born gay. It’s genetic and brain centered.

      • Royce E. Van Blaricome

        Prove it. Cite your evidence or just stand guilty of another lame liberal reprobate spouting of nonsense as if it’s fact.

        • scotsims

          The APA is the leading scientific and professional organization representing Psychology in the United States, with more than 115,700 researchers, educators, clinicians, consultants and students as its members.

          I’ll stand with the professionals. You are only offering observations, which it seems that you have not one whit of truth, all these old wives tales have been debunked thousands of times.

          It appears you’ve been hanging around making a lot of observations. Do I take the word of a fundamental evangelical christian hysteric who’s been hanging around a lot of babies, children, preteens, teens, young adults and adults and have been able to observe their sex life and development.

          I want to see your paperwork.

          Wow, it’s interesting to watch people like you go through your gyrations to try to make lies true.

          Please take your act with you when you go to fleece others.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Before I address each of the points in your reply I’d like to point out that I asked you to cite your evidence. NOT tell me who the APA is. Try again if you’d like. Though you may wish to not waste your time because there is NO evidence whatsoever that Homosexuals are “born that way” or that it is genetic or brain-centered. NONE.

            “The APA is the leading scientific and professional organization representing Psychology in the United States, with more than 115,700 researchers, educators, clinicians, consultants and students as its members.”

            Ah yes, and one of those STUDENTS decided to write a paper that was broadly disseminated because it fit the LGBTQABCXZ+50 agenda. Unfortunately, anyone with the slightest abilities in Critical Thinking could see it for what it was. OPINION.

            The APA is also the very same organization that wrote a paper on the reasoning for changing the characterization of Transgenderism from a Disorder to a Dysphoria. Why? Let’s let Dr. Walter Bockting of the APA tell you himself:

            “The change in the DSM from gender identity disorder to gender dysphoria was a way to depathologize having a gender identity that differs from one’s sex assigned at birth and recognize the concern and clinical care that transgender individuals may need to achieve comfort with their gender identity, their body and gender role.”

            And there ya have it folks! THAT is what the APA is all about and their “science” to backup their changing the DSM and how they draw their conclusions on what is or is not a “disorder”! Let’s make real sure and certain they are COMFORTABLE in their sin!

            For 6000yrs or so one has been able to look between their legs and determine what gender they are. But, oh no, not now! Why we’ve progressed so much further beyond that. Common sense dictates that when one claims there gender is anything other than their sex at birth that is DISORDERED. It’s outta whack. It doesn’t mesh. Sex and gender are the same. That IS perfectly in order. Duh!

            “I’ll stand with the professionals. You are only offering observations, which it seems that you have not one whit of truth, all these old wives tales have been debunked thousands of times.”

            As are you, Sir. You’ve offering NO evidence whatsoever to back up the claim you made. I asked you to cite EVIDENCE. And no, there have been NO of “all these old wives tales” debunked. Not one. What has NOT been debunked is the Truth seen in Romans 1, for just one example, and it never will be. Truth stands the test of time.

            “It appears you’ve been hanging around making a lot of observations. Do I take the word of a fundamental evangelical christian hysteric who’s been hanging around a lot of babies, children, preteens, teens, young adults and adults and have been able to observe their sex life and development.”

            Hmmm, I’m curious. What distinguishes a Fundamental Evangelical Christian from a “fundamental evangelical christian hysteric”? And how would you know who I’ve been hanging around with? Stalking me? If so, you’re doing a poor job. Or was that just your faux-omniscience that stems from a psychotic self-imposed god-complex on full display?

            “I want to see your paperwork.”

            Great! Happy to send you a Bible!! Where should I send it?

            “Wow, it’s interesting to watch people like you go through your gyrations to try to make lies true.”

            You need to try harder. Maybe try offering something of substance instead of ad hominem. It’s quite the quandary as to why you choose to totally discredit and embarrass yourself. I have noticed though that masochism is often attached to those who exhibit such narcissism. Btw, how do you feel about Psychology Today? Do you find it reputable? If so, perhaps this will be helpful:

            “From Psychology Today: “Internet Trolls Are Narcissists, Psychopaths, and Sadists. An Internet troll is someone who comes into a discussion and posts comments designed to upset or disrupt the conversation. Often, in fact, it seems like there is no real purpose behind their comments except to upset everyone else involved. Trolls will lie, exaggerate, and offend to get a response.”

            “Please take your act with you when you go to fleece others.”

            Oh, I will. Rest assured that God and His Word is always with me and goes wherever I do.

      • Tony Gilder

        It is not. All sex is brain centered. Humans are taught sex. It is less instinct. Human babies must be guided to a teat.

        • scotsims

          HaHaHa!
          I just stated that gay people are born gay, it’s genetic and brain centered. The brain is the largest sex organ in the human body. Humans are not taught sex. There are millions of people running around whose parents had no sex education at all and managed to do it. Have you ever had an erection or whacked off? Most boys sure figure out how to do it.

          The only thing that needs to be taught are physical positions.

          Human babies don’t find the teat on their own mainly because they can’t walk or crawl or standup or the teat is four feet above its’ head. So yes, the mother has to guide the baby to feed it.

          I guess most animals are smarter than humans as they figure out how to suckle on their own.

          • Tony Gilder

            Give the world a break. You did not know to suck a ck until somebody shoved it down your throat. It was not instinctual, nor was somebody cramming it up your bum. You were LYING DOWN. Fool.

          • scotsims

            When did you learn how to read minds, because if you believe that you’re beyond religious hysteria. I suppose you never heard of guys experimenting. You can learn a lot by yourself or a bud.

            Sorry you never had sex, If true I can see why.

          • Tony Gilder

            What does religion have to do with it? You don’t need religion to figure out that a penis is not for your rear-end. You just said you experimented which proves somebody shoved it down your throat and turned you out. What can a “bud” teach me that I want to know? I have the same junk he has. I don’t need some “bud” teaching me how to blow him. I happen to prefer women hence my wife of almost 40 years and 5 children.

          • scotsims

            Religious hysterics sound just like you. AKA religious delusion.

            Google it.

            You’re fixated on gay sex. Why is that? Don’t you have better things to do? “i don’t need some “bud” teaching me how to blow him.”? Do you already know how to s k c k?

            The fact that you are married and have 5 kids has nothing to do with having sex with men.

          • scotsims

            Note: You keep posting about s king c k or cramming it up your bum. How often do you fantasize about it?

          • Tony Gilder

            And it has never been a matter of “figuring out” how to masturbate. Somebody else turned you onto that too. Children DO NOT automatically masturbate.

          • scotsims

            I hit puberty, the first time I didn’t realize what was happening. But after getting aroused by touching myself I did what comes naturally.

          • Tony Gilder

            If by the time you hit puberty, you didn’t know it was down there, then you are a liar. It is not WHEN you figured it out, fool. You HAD to know HOW to figure it out from somewhere. Nobody just “starts” touching themselves.

          • scotsims

            I knew it was down there. SMH

            I was there. I figured it out on my own.

            How did you learn? Daddy? Daddy’s friend? You best (boy) friend? At the bus station?

    • Andrea Graffe Suárez

      1) You seem to be confusing sexual orientation with sexual identity, which are to completely different things 😉 There are “soft and effeminate” straight boys and masculine gay boys.
      2) There’s no formula to define why someone is homosexual or heterosexual.
      3) Gay people are likely to be angry at being tried to be “converted back”, since it assumes sexuality is something that can be changed like clothes could (Plus I’m pretty sure any straight person would be angry if you tried to force them to change their sexual orientation)
      4) The church is as ill equipped as any organism would, since there’s no intervening. Sure sexuality does evolve and sometimes change with time, but it certainly isn’t because someone intervenes and saves the person, especially since there’s nothing wrong with being homosexual.

      I can say all of this confidently since I am a very feminine bisexual woman happily married to a man, who only started feeling attraction for women after I turned 18, having had 0 traumas, affection needs, etc. –thank God 🙂

  • Jack

    More often it doesn’t. Why is that?

    Fully 25% of girls and 17% of boys are abused. Clearly, not every abused child becomes gay. Not every gay person was abused as a child.

    Childhood abuse has no relation to homosexuality.

    • iggyauggie

      Solid f@g cult science

      • Jack

        English, please.

    • Royce E. Van Blaricome

      “Childhood abuse has no relation to homosexuality.”

      Science, Studies, and personal testimonies say otherwise.

      • Jack

        Goodness. No. It’s an acknowledgment that some do. And so do some who survive nut allergies. Or who were army brats.

        Childhood abuse has no causative relation to homosexuality.

        I note that you make a claim but offer no proof. Have a great life.

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          I note that you make a claim but offer no proof.

          As for my claim of “Science, Studies, and personal testimonies say otherwise”, again, let Google or a public library be your friend. But hey, like you said, you’re just not all that interested. And so you choose to live in the dark. Your choice.

          Have a great life. And don’t forget to ponder Eternity.

          • Jack

            I note you don’t specify the claim. But you can follow your own advise — given to me more than once — of using Google or a public library.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            I note your demonstrated lack of Reading Comprehension. (as well as your spelling).

          • Andrew Alcott

            I like this guy

          • scotsims

            Everyone comprehends that you are an idiot.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Talking to yourself again? Or just still trying to show off your psychotic, narcissistic, delusional faux-omniscience from your self-imposed god-complex?

            A fool does not delight in understanding, But only in revealing his own mind. (Prov. 18:2)

            Like a dog that returns to its vomit is a fool who repeats his folly. (Prov. 26:11)

          • scotsims

            Do you get off writing defamatory statements of others?

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            LOL!! This from the guy who just called me an idiot! LOL

            Oh don’t ya just love it when the fools walk around with a neon sign pointing to the Giant Sequoia Tree sticking outta their eye socket!!

          • scotsims

            I guess the APA doesn’t count.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            I guess you don’t know how to read. Throwing out the initials of an organization without having done your homework and actually reading what it’s said only goes to further demonstrate your willingness to publicly display your ignorance and discredit yourself.

          • scotsims

            Let’s call people names and denigrate them.

            Were you born a mind reader or did someone show you how to do it?

            Why do you show such high interest in child rape?

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Let’s call people names and denigrate them.

            Were you born a mind reader or did someone show you how to do it?

            Why do you show such high interest in child rape?

            Like a dog that returns to its vomit is a fool who repeats his folly. (Prov. 26:11)

            Do you see a man wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him. (Prov. 26:12)

      • Jack

        Childhood abuse has no relation to homosexuality. it is neither necessary nor sufficient.

        Most gay adults were not abused as children. Not all adults who were abused as children are gay.

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          Repeating yourself doesn’t change the fact that evidence says otherwise. Repeating yourself only continues to expose your delusion.

          Typical liberal delusion. Will you ever learn that telling a lie long enough, loud enough, and often enough will NEVER make it the Truth?

          • Jack

            Provide the evidence. I’ve provided mine.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            LOL. Thanks for the public display that you don’t know what “evidence” is. An unsubstantiated claim is NOT “evidence”. That said, your own claim proves your supposition false. LOL

            Nothing like destroying your own argument.

          • Jack

            At least I have an argument.

            As I’ve shown, childhood abuse is neither sufficient nor necessary.

            There’s a screenshot circulating on Facebook of someone’s notification that your Facebook account was deleted. Pity.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            And you think having an argument is some kind of an achievement? Well, that speaks!

            No, you’ve shown no such thing You’ve made a claim. What you call an “argument”. Both are false and without merit.

            Don’t fret yourself. I’m working on getting my FB back up. It is no surprise that there are those who can’t stand the Light and do their best to snuff it out. Just more evidence that God’s Word is true.

          • Jack

            Amen.

    • Archai Winters

      you’re literally lying to yourself. amazing.

    • Archai Winters

      Also, the dude literally says the same thing as you..
      Duh every gay person isn’t abused and duh not every abused person becomes gay. BUT the MAJORITY of ababus children become gay.

      • Jack

        “The dude.”

        That’s helpful.

        “the MAJORITY of ababus [sic] children become gay.”

        Nope.

        • Archai Winters

          …..how about the person who made this article….
          are you being this dumb on purpose or are you like 11.

          and yes. sorry. whether you like it or not, abuse leads to homosexuality in most cases. open your eyes and stop forcing them shut just cause whats there isnt something you wanna see.

          • Jack

            The author is “the author,” not “the dude.”

            Your attempts at insults show little confidence you have in your own claims. With 1 out of 4 girls being abused, we are frightfully short of lesbians.

        • Archai Winters

          i dont understand what you’re trying to convey anymore. you’re emotional and invested as well as convoluted. you have the info and its up to you to choose to recognize or ignore it. your denial is not my problem anymore.

          • Jack

            Hahahahaha.

          • Archai Winters

            ………..
            seriously though. what is your problem. You’re nit even offering up any more argument. as usual. i win an argument and the other person acts stupid.

          • Jack

            You’ve won an argument? Congrats.

          • Archai Winters

            sorry for the late reply but you seriously had more than enough time to come up wwit an answer better than that…

          • Jack

            So did you.

          • Archai Winters

            …… so…. does that mean that youve run out of sound, logical ideas for an argument, therefore terminating our future string of replies?

          • Jack

            No, it means YOU did.

          • Archai Winters

            I did? Tell me how.

          • Jack

            This discussion died.

          • Archai Winters

            It did? Thank god. Having arguments with blind people of lesser intelligence than me always make me feel so hopeless. Like there is no one in the world that may save humans from becoming mindless, drooling drones that approve of or follow anything sjws say.
            Also, thanks for replying and letting me know if win. Did me a real solid.

  • Yo Mama

    Anyone on this thread who claims it is or is not related is making such a general bs statement its sad. This is called “folk psychology.” You have to take this on a case by case basis; there are individual differences in psychology and we need to stop putting people in a box and open our minds to the FACT that everything isn’t black and white. We all have different biological makeups and need to understand these are complex issues. If you show me a psychologist who thinks otherwise, I will show you why that psychologist is a f@#$ing moron.

    • Andrea Graffe Suárez

      Preaaaaaaach!

      Plus honestly for me the issue with this article is not that it links child abuse to (homo)sexuality, but rather that it implies that by talking honestly and openly about homosexuality we’re either encouraging children to be gay (?), by this same logic no sexual education/talks should ever be had with any minor since we would them be encouraging to have sex at an early age, rather than informing them so that they can experience sexuality when they are ready for it, safely and with information instead of ignorance!

    • Archai Winters

      its true that everyone’s psychology is different but no one is born gay. gay is made. every. single. time. or people just say they’re gay because it happens to be a trend atm. stop being purposefully dumb.

  • Jack

    America’s foremost expert on homosexuality has spoken!

    Have gay men been abused as children? Some.
    Have gay women been abused as children? Some.
    Have straight men been abused as children? Some.
    Have straight women been abused as children? Some.

    Conclusion: some children are abused.

    When will we stop the lying?

    “Ex-gay Robert Lopez, raised by his mother and her lesbian partner”

    Lopez is not ex-gay. He has described himself as bisexual. Nor was he raised by his mother and her lesbian partner — he was raised by his mother, after his father inexplicably left (having stuck around to help raise the four older children). Dr. Lopez DID have a lesbian lover, a woman who also had children. Each woman lived in her own house, raising her own children. They spent weekends together. That hardly qualifies for a claim of being “raised by his mother and her lesbian partner.”

    • Archai Winters

      This entire post is so people like you will make the connection between childhood abuse and homosexuality so we can stop ignoring gays/lesbians/whatevers crying out for help. Gay is not born. Never has been and never will. Supporting LGBTQ is like supporting pedophiles. It’s disgusting and revolting that people will lie to themselves and say that a young child WANTS to have sex with a MAN/WOMAN because they know they are gay. Gay is made and is also a sin. I have evidence to support my facts so you can try to tell me otherwise. BUt know that you are a horrible person if you are one of the many brain-washed beings who think having sex with little children is ‘nurturing’ and that it doesn’t lead to homosexuality- in some case, not all- even though there are pother roads there.

      • Jack

        And sgame on you for being an hysterical homophobe.

      • Jack

        I’d like to suggest that when you respond to my comment that you take the time to respond to my comment.

        Did you notice that I said two things?

        1. Childhood sexual abuse does not make a person gay.

        2. Lopez is a liar.

        Comparing anyone to a pedophile is disgusting.

        • Archai Winters

          1: yes, it does. the proof is in front of ur eyes and choosing not to believe it doesn’t mean it’s not true.
          2: You can say whatever you want. Doesn’t change the facts.
          3: accoridin to stupid LGBTQ supporters line you, pedophilia is a sexual orientation so nice going insulting the very ”people’ you support.

          • Jack

            1. huh?
            2. huh?
            3. huh?

            Once again, I’d like to suggest that when you respond to my comment that you take the time to respond to my comment.

            Did you notice that I said two things?

            1. Childhood sexual abuse does not make a person gay.

            2. Lopez is a liar.

            Comparing anyone to a pedophile is disgusting.

            If you care to respond to 1 or 2, I’ll gladly entertain your response. But if you choose to go off on a rant, you’re on your own.

          • Archai Winters

            ….. What are you talking about?
            1: Sexual abuse does lead to being homosexual in most cases.
            2: Your opinion on Lopez is of little concern to me. I don’t care in the least.
            Stop being so dumb. Please. The world doesn’t need more idiots like you.

          • Jack

            Yes. What ARE you talking about.

            1. nope
            2. so?
            3. like you then?

          • Archai Winters

            you really need to stop letting your emotions cloud your logic and argument. there is a CLEAR link between childhood rape/molestation but you refuse to admit it. what is wrong with people like you….

          • Jack

            There’s no link. Where’s the emotion in that?

          • scotsims

            Show us your link.

            I believe, no I know you’re a child rapist Troll.

  • DatBus

    The writer neglects to draw a very important distinction between sexual attraction (orientation) and behavior. Two different things that need to be understood seperately in order to understand their relationship. Gay people actually can have sex with members of the opposite sex. Shocked? Sexual abuse can impact on someone’s behavior, but it will have zero impact on their orientation, which is born into a person. And for the record, there are way more heterosexual child abusers than gay ones, making this entire conversation kinda stupit.

Inspiration
The Crisis We Can Do Something About
Dudley Hall
More from The Stream
Connect with Us