The Darker Side of LGBT Theology: From Queer Christ to Transgender Christ

By Michael Brown Published on May 20, 2016

There is a darker side to LGBT theology, a side that goes far beyond seeking to legitimize same-sex relationships in the name of the Lord. It is a side that seriously perverts the Scriptures and creates a Jesus in its own image — a queer Christ and beyond.

But what else should we expect? This is the trajectory of radical LGBT theology.

Had these theologians and teachers and leaders said that Jesus can relate to every one of us, I would have offered a hearty Amen. Had they said that Jesus loved every one of us and shed His blood for our redemption, again I would have said Amen.

Had they said that all of us are created in God’s image and yet fallen, once more I would have agreed. Had they said that the Lord always reached out to the marginalized, and today that would include many in the LGBT community, yet again I would have given my affirmation.

But these leaders have gone far beyond that. They have even gone far beyond trying to make Jonathan and David or Ruth and Naomi into homosexual couples. Instead, they have impugned the very character of the Lord.

Queering Christ

In 2011, in A Queer Thing Happened to America, I documented some of the worst examples of this radical, Christ-defiling theology, including:

  • A book entitled The Queer God, described as “a call to ‘disaffiliation’ processes in theology. To be unfaithful to sexual ideological constructions of God in order to liberate God — a Queer God who also needs to come out of the closet of theologians of the status quo.”
  • An influential gay theologian who wrote in his book Queering Christ, “Christ was an utterly desirable, bearded hunk, naked on the cross, and I entered the seminary to find union with him and make love with him.”
  • This same theologian wrote: “Easter becomes the hope of queer sexual liberation. The queer struggle for sexual liberation will triumph; this is the promise of Easter. … On Easter, God made Jesus queer in his solidarity with us. In other words, Jesus ‘came out of the closet’ and became the ‘queer’ Christ. …”
  • A lesbian professor claimed that Jesus was in the midst of two or three who gather together (Matthew 18:20), including two gay men engaged in an anonymous sexual encounter.
  • A Jewish lesbian who interpreted God consuming Aaron’s sons Nadab and Abihu with fire as an act of divine, homosexual love.
  • A gay Old Testament scholar alleging that when God revealed Himself to Moses on Mount Sinai, it was an erotic, homosexual act.
  • Another gay Old Testament scholar claiming that the Trinity represented a gay, sexual threesome.
  • Another book with chapter titles like: “Mary, Queer of Heaven and Mother of Faggots” and “Mary the drag queen (or is it Jesus cross-dressing?).”

The material was so offensive that I literally broke down in tears after completing the chapter — and what I included in the chapter was only a sampling of the available literature. Some of it was far too crass even to print.

Of course, there are those who describe themselves as gay Christians who are also appalled by this, but it cannot be denied that this blasphemous trajectory is commonly found among LGBT theologians, including leaders in the largest gay denomination, the Metropolitan Community Churches.

Accordingly, a lesbian writer who is ordained with the Metropolitan Church, “has portrayed Jesus Christ as a bisexual-transgender person who has sexual relationships with the apostle John, Mary Magdalene, as well as a ‘pan-gendered, omni-erotic’ Holy Spirit” (quoting gay theologian Patrick Cheng).

In 2014, in Can You Be Gay and Christian?, I added some further examples, including the story of an openly gay minister who began speaking in tongues after having sex with another openly gay minister, providing an alleged connection between sexual passion and the Holy Spirit.

Transgender Scripture Benders

Now the claim has been made that Jesus is “The First Transgender Man.”

According to Suzanne DeWitt Hall, this is how we are to understand the birth of Jesus: “The Holy Spirit comes upon the second Eve [meaning Mary], and the child takes flesh from her and is born. Born of her flesh. Born with XX chromosome pairing. Born genetically female, and yet trans-formed into man.”

This is complete nonsense, and there is no more evidence that Jesus was born genetically female than He was born genetically Martian. The Holy Spirit did something supernatural in the womb of Mary and produced a fully-male, fully-human Savior, who was also fully God, not a genetic female who was transformed into a man. Talk about abusing the Scriptures and reading your own beliefs into the text. Talk about an egregious example of eisegesis.

She also writes, “A quick look at the dictionary for the prefix ‘trans’ tells us that it means ‘across,’ ‘beyond,’ ‘through,’ and ‘changing thoroughly,’ all of which are great terms for the person of Christ. He cuts across all boundaries. He is beyond our understanding. He is through all and in all. He changes us thoroughly into new creations.”

This, of course, is absolutely true, but not in the sense that the author implies, as if Jesus affirms gays and lesbians in their same-sex desires and encourages gender-confused biological males to become females (and vice versa).

But her worst miss of all is in her closing line, which states, “In his person, and in his salvific actions, Jesus is truly the first and forever trans man.”

Rather, Jesus is the forever transforming man – the man who transforms sinners into saints, the man who transforms children of darkness into children of light, the man who calls us to be transformed by the renewing of our minds (see Romans 12:1-2). As I have stated many times, Jesus did not practice affirmational inclusion, as LGBT theologians claim. Rather, He practiced transformational inclusion, reaching out to lost sinners in their sin and transforming us into holy children of God.

Does Jesus have great compassion on those who struggle with gender identity? Without a doubt He does, and He calls us to share His heart. But surely the Son of God has a better way than hormone blockers for children, radical, invasive sex-change surgery for older teens and adults, and hormones for life. Surely the transforming Savior of the world has a better plan than that.

And so, rather than trying to recreate Him in our fallen image, we should allow Him to recreate us in His heavenly image — and that image is certainly not queer or transgender.

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  • Cowboy

    “Evil people will keep on being evil, and everyone who is dirty-minded will still be dirty-minded. But good people will keep on doing right, and God’s people will always be holy.”
    ‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:11‬ ‭CEVUS06‬‬

    • Kevin Thomas

      What makes us holy?

  • MaxVeritas

    Quote: “Had they said that all of us are created in God’s image and yet fallen, once more I would have agreed.” Reply: It seems to me we are born sinners in Adams image and only become created in God’s righteous and holy image at the moment of salvation.

    Romans 3:21 & 22 – But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
    22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.

    Romans 5:19 – For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

    Romans 10:4 – Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

    2 Cor 5:17-Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come

    2 Cor 5:21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

    Eph 2:10-For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

    Eph 4:24-and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

  • Slidellman4life

    This is blasphemy of the highest order, and shall be repaid in equal parts damnation.

  • Kathy Verbiest Baldock

    First, most affirming Christians do not make defenses for inclusion from a stance of queer theology, they use theology, and there is a difference here. I use theology in context in my book, as do Dr. James Brownson, Matthew Vines and other prominent voices on this issue. It would be far more authentic to address the issue from that stance rather than from a perspective of queer theology.

    Further, if one does inside on taking that tact, which Brown clearly does, looking to the fringe is also not authentic and faithfully reflective of a thought movement.

    As I wrote in my review of Brown’s chapter on “Queer Theology” in AQTHTA over five years ago:

    “Chapter Ten: QUEER THEOLOGY, A GAY/LESBIAN AND HOMOEROTIC CHRIST

    Oh, my. On a radio interview, I heard Brown say “the queer reading of Scripture will blow you away” and that he was “so sad and so pained by the end of the chapter that [he] cried.” Well, I fully agree. However, I cried for entirely different reasons.

    Almost everything Dr. Brown presented as “normal” belief/behavior for gay Christians, I have never ever experienced. Who did he speak to? What kind of fringe spiritual people did Brown dig up? Prayers for cruising? Fantasizing about taking off the loincloth of a crucified Christ? Come on! This is presented as what all gay Christians think about and do?

    If I wanted to make my fellow evangelical Christians look bad, I could make a real effort to seek out and find a handful of fringe freak heterosexual Christians who have all kinds of crazy, vulgar thoughts and ideas , but that would not be a true example of what the overwhelming majority of heterosexual evangelical Christians believe. I cannot understand why Brown did not bother to go 2 1/2 hours up the road to Raleigh, NC to the headquarters of The Gay Christian Network (GCN) and speak with my friend Justin Lee. Lee is the founder of this organization and a fine gay Christian man of great integrity. GCN is an online community of over 18,000 GLBT believers and supporters worldwide. They’ve been featured on Dr. Phil and in the New York Times, so they’re not exactly hiding. Instead, Brown went out of his way to find the guy fantasizing about making love to the Michelangelo Christ? Are you kidding me?

    Brown also did not call Todd Ferrell, President of The Evangelical Network, a group of gay affirming Pentecostal churches. He did not talk to Yvette Flunder of City of Refuge Church in San Francisco. Or speak with Rev. Troy Perry, who, aside from being the founder of the Metropolitan Community Church, is an amazing man of God. He did not sit down with Ralph Blair of Evangelicals Concerned or Ross Murray of Lutherans Concerned. Brown did not attend an affirming body of believers, much less get to personally know the pastors over a meal. He didn’t even bother to attend any one of several GLBT Christian conferences. Or even talk to me or Andrew Marin personally. This is unbelievably negligent.

    This chapter and the pedophile chapter alone should completely disqualify anyone from publishing this book. This “research” is not only careless but deceptive. Is this a truthful and honest account of the day-to-day reality and theological beliefs of gay Christians? Simple answer? No.”

    As to the commentary on DeWitt Hall’s piece in HuffPo, with basic knowledge of biology, it is easy to comprehend her idea that Jesus was XX in genetic make-up as an embryo.

    The embryo gets it DNA from the mother XX and the father XY, typically so. (I write “typically” because we KNOW there are one 31 cases of genetic chromosomal conditions where people are not just XX or XY, but I digress.) So, Mary being XX, was the only human contribution to Jesus embryo yet He was born a man, XY.

    Something unique happened in utero that NONE of us is privy to for the Bible does not lay our for us how this biologically happened. Anyone’s supposition is a valid for consideration as another’s supposition.

    This, along events, stories, happenings, are mysteries of the faith, which personally, I am willing to hold in the tension of not knowing the finite details of. Yet, Mr. Brown, also unknowing of how the birth of Jesus was accomplished biologically, can FULLY dismiss DeWitt Hall’s thought as “nonsense.” Some would certainly call virgin birth “nonsense.” The reality is that NONE of us knows the biology of the birth of Jesus. Period.

    What I DO know is that Brown IGNORES the findings, teachings and research of professional medical and mental health organizations of the issues of transgenderism.

    There are those of us, in growing number, who can honor the Word of God, the Scriptures and the witness of the lives of transgender people, and more specifically, transgender Christians. This requires reasoning and relational skills that Brown clearly lacks.

    Just as queer theology, especially as depicted by Brown, is not the core belief system of the LGBT Christians I well know, I am encouraged that Christian theology is not centered on the topics to which Brown focuses his efforts.

    Brown’s broad writing and speaking record on gay and trans issues will stand as a monument to a man who could not see beyond his own biases to the diversity of a Creator who made some of His children L, G, B, or T.

    That shameful monument will be his legacy.

    • RoundRocker

      Kathy, you said exactly what I was thinking. Every movement has fringe elements, and those fringe elements can be held up to ridicule to damn the entire movement, even if most members of that movement think they’re loco. I’m not at all familiar with the “theology” Mr Brown describes, but I suspect he has taken at least some parts of it completely out of context to describe them in the worst possible light, as he often does. And what Ms DeWitt Hall said is no more unbelievable and outlandish than the whole idea of the virgin birth or any other miracle in the Bible.

    • Patmos

      “who made some of His children L, G, B, or T.”

      So God made some of his children an abomination? And they were not fearfully and wonderfully made?

      Hmmm, something is amiss here, and I’m certain it’s you. My suggestion is to stop trying to shape scripture to who you think you are, and instead be a doer of the word and not a hearer only, as it says in John’s Gospel, “Continue on in my word, and you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.”

      Yes, CONTINUE ON, rather than settling for less than what God has for you. God is the vinedresser, and his word will clean you so that you bring forth the fruit of the spirit, as opposed to bringing forth the deceit of this world.

      Continue on, or perish in your stubbornness.

      • RoundRocker

        Kathy is a doer of the word in the best possible way. She spends her time and talents doing all she can to bring people closer to God through her book and her teaching. She is a strong and Godly woman who I am blessed to call a friend. She knows that ALL, including LGBT people, are wonderfully and fearfully made by a loving God. God made everyone just the way He intended them to be, including LGBT people. How could God do otherwise?

        • Patmos

          You are absolutely clueless. It’s fools like you who are ushering in the Anti-Christ, because you don’t stand on God’s word. You just ignore parts, and fall well short of the glory of God, as I noticed you have nothing to say about homosexual perversion being an abomination. What? Did God just change his mind on that one?

          Was Paul wrong when he said we wrestle not with flesh and blood? Did Jesus not spend a large portion of his ministry casting out deceitful spirits? Did he not give people who believe in him the authority to do the same?

          Continue on in his word, and you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.

          Right now people like you are either lazy or ignorant, or some form of both. You’re the type of people who Christ called out for wanting to be pleasing in the eyes of men rather than the eyes of God.

          • So much condemnation from a Christian. Do you think Jesus smiles upon it?

          • Peggy Simmers

            Read the Bible, the whole Bible and then make your decisions and comments. Most people that began as atheists and attacked the Bible hadn’t read it. When they did, they became Christians. Otherwise, you and others are uninformed about what and who you’re attacking. Don’t just read certain parts, read the entire Book.

          • There are many atheists that know the bible better than some Christians.

          • JustNTyme

            Like you

          • Like me what?

          • Peggy Simmers

            Hmmm. The many know more than some. Hmmm. Are you sure? Are you an atheist?

          • RoundRocker

            A Pharisee- how quaint. I could easily say the same thing to you- “You are absolutely clueless. It’s fools like you who are ushering in the
            Anti-Christ, because you don’t stand on God’s word. You just ignore
            parts, and fall well short of the glory of God”. I don’t follow Paul. I follow Jesus. You know, the one who said “Love thy neighbor…” “Do unto others…” “Whatsoever you do to the least of these…”. May I suggest removing the plank from your own eye?

          • Kevin Thomas

            I don’t hear any love or compassion in your words.

          • Tigdi

            Is it not loving or compassionate to speak the truth?

          • Kevin Thomas

            Not always…it’s about agenda and how it is communicated. Sometimes the most loving thing one can say is nothing. Talk is cheap. I choose to ascribe unsurpassable worth to all through self sacrificial love as Jesus did on the cross. Abba has the rest under control. BTW isn’t the Holy Spirits job to convict?

  • The behavior that Brown speaks on has been unseen by me as well. After 10 years of worshiping with, preaching to, and serving LGBT people this behavior that Brown details is not the norm. In every walk of life in our society there is extreme behavior and yet it would not be wise to judge an entire group by the extreme behavior of a few.

    Yet Brown continues to do this. Like most of his writings Dr. Brown gives us the open arms of compassion and then the upper hook of condemnation.

    Compassion

    “Does Jesus have great compassion on those who struggle with gender identity? Without a doubt He does, and He calls us to share His heart.”

    Condemnation

    “But surely the Son of God has a better way than hormone blockers for children, radical, invasive sex-change surgery for older teens and adults, and hormones for life. Surely the transforming Savior of the world has a better plan than that.”

    Compassion, true compassion listens to the voices of those we have compassion for. True compassion answers the needs of those that we claim to have compassion for. Dr. Brown neither answers the needs or listens to the voices of Transgender people. He continues to ignore their voices. He continues to ignore the facts on the science on being transgender. He continues to ignore the voices of transgender people themselves. That is not compassion nor love.

    In my latest blog I stated,

    “As I read and listen to the current storm of anti-Transgender hysteria propagated from my Christian brothers and sisters, I hear the voice of Jesus calling from John 13:33-35
    —–
    How will all men know that we are disciples of Jesus Christ if all they see is fear and propaganda? Will the Hill of Transphobia be the hill that the credibility of Christianity as a religion of love die on? I pray not.”

    • Dean Bruckner

      “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” – Jesus

      “He who has my commandments and keeps them, he is the one who loves me.” – Jesus

      “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

      “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

      “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’” – Jesus, Mathew Chapter 7

      “At the beginning, the Creator made them male and female. Therefore, what God has joined together, let no man put asunder.” – Jesus

      • Seems as though your cut and paste option just exploded.

        • Dean Bruckner

          One correction to the Matthew 19 quotation; I forgot the part where Jesus says, “Have you not read” and then proceeds to do a verbal cut and paste. Here’s the whole passage in the New American Standard Version (quotations from the Old Testament are in all CAPS in that version).

          As Jesus says, s#x is for a faithful heterosexual marriage only, and abstinence is required in all other situations. Will you obey him and demonstrate your love for him that way? Or will you hiinder children coming to him, as you do today?

          ==================================================================

          “When Jesus had finished these words, He departed from Galilee and came into the region of Judea beyond the Jordan; and large crowds followed Him, and He healed them there.

          “Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?” And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’? “So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?” He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. “And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

          The disciples said to Him, “If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry.” But He said to them, “Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given. “For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother’s womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it.”

          Then some children were brought to Him so that He might lay His hands on them and pray; and the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, “Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” After laying His hands on them, He departed from there.

          • You really should get that fixed.

          • Dean Bruckner

            The LORD rebuke you!

          • I didn’t sneeze.

          • Dean Bruckner

            It is written, “Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people. For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.” – Jude

          • Puddleglumm

            Great quote Dean. Very applicable when dealing with this subject.

          • Michael Bagnall

            As a member of the clergy I would be interested in hearing your Biblical and theological basis for your argument. So far the only person actually referencing the Scriptures are your opponents, followed mostly by sarcastic comments from you. Now I realize an MSW does not necessarily prepare you to do actual theology, but I would assume that as a Christian Minister who is questioning thousands of years of Biblical and theological study, you would have some argument reasoned from God’s Word.

          • I would say click my avatar and read over my comments and Google me to see where I am coming from.

          • RoundRocker

            Hmmm. Jesus said “Not all men can accept this statement, but only
            those to whom it has been given.” That means it’s not given to every man. “For there are eunuchs who were born
            that way from their mother’s womb; and there are eunuchs who were made
            eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs
            for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this,
            let him accept it.” Many argue some of the eunuchs He’s talking about are gay men, Born that way from their mother’s womb.

            Still, I don’t understand why people use this passage where Jesus talks about divorce as a sin as commentary on anything but divorce.

          • Great work

          • Dean Bruckner

            It is simple: outside of a faithful heterosexual marriage, s#xual abstinence is required.

            Simple is not the same as easy. Something like s#xual abstinence can be simple, but hard. And so it is. By the grace of God and the teaching and encouragement of my parents and Christian community, I followed and kept this standard until I was married at the age of 32. I won’t say that I was without sin, but I was never with a woman (or man) until I was married (to a woman and only and forever a woman). It’s hard, but not impossible, and we can always begin anew.

          • Kevin Thomas

            It’s interesting—He made them male and female….it doesn’t say male or female. I wonder if there are any implications to the distinction.

      • Kevin Thomas

        Indeed–if we love someone will live in ways that are congruent with such love. Having said that Jesus’s love for His image bearers isn’t based on whether we behave correctly.

        • UCanBeVictorious

          “If you love Me, keep My commandments.” said Jesus in John 14:15 (The New King James Version)

          • Kevin Thomas

            Agreed–we should follow His commandments–Love God and man. Funny thing is…none of us do it so well. The point I made had to do with our following or lack of following has NOTHING to do with Jesus’ love for us. When one figures that out….everything starts to fall in place… I don’t know who Rev is.. sorry

          • UCanBeVictorious

            I’m not sure I understand your point Kevin. Are you saying that in order to love people we have to condone their sin? I don’t see anywhere in Mr. Brown’s article that he says we shouldn’t love LGBT people. And I didn’t say that either. As Christians, we are to love the sinner but hate the sin. That’s biblical. That’s what Jesus did. Jesus loved people but I can’t find anywhere in the Gospels where He condoned their sin. Jesus told the woman caught in adultery, “Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more.” Loving people doesn’t mean condoning their sin. Is that what you are saying?

          • Kevin Thomas

            I mean no disrespect—but you aren’t Jesus. Btw–Do you think Jesus thought she wasn’t going to sin anymore? Tather than love the sinner hate the sin…..I ascribe to love the sinner and hate your own sin. Abba has the rest under control. Blessings…

          • UCanBeVictorious

            “Whoever claims to live in Him must walk as Jesus did.” I John 2:6 It’s best to stick with the Word instead of what sounds good Kevin.

            By the way, you didn’t answer the question: Are you saying loving the sinner means condoning their sin?

            I suppose if you saw your neighbor’s house was on fire, you wouldn’t say anything to him about it. After all, Abba has it all under control. You would only be concerned if your own house was on fire.

          • Kevin Thomas

            Your sin is not for me to condone or not. I am not in authority over you. Heck–I don’t even know you. The Holy Spirit is the one that convicts. The house on fire analogy is a poor one. If flames are coming out of a house the owner will see them as well. Being the arbiter of someone’s sin without being in relationship AND being asked for…well….it can push lots of folks away from the Kingdom.

            BTW the WORD is Jesus….the Bible is scripture and it drives us to Him. Again Blessings! 🙂

          • UCanBeVictorious

            You do know what an ambassador is don’t you Kevin? II Corinthians 5 says that I am Christ’s ambassador. I’m simply saying what the King of the kingdom has already said. And that is that homosexuality is a sin.

            My analogy about the house fire is spot on because if homosexuals don’t repent of their sin, they will spend eternity in fire. Have you never read Jude 7? “In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.” Sounds very clear to me.

            Have you never read Galatians 5:1 Kevin? “Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently.”

            Obviously you don’t believe that the Bible is actually God’s Word Kevin. And that is certainly your choice. I choose to believe what the Bible says–that it is God’s Word to us.

          • Kevin Thomas

            Hmmm… I’m not sure an Ambassador would go to another country and proceed to tell them what they are doing wrong and how they are defective.

            No your analogy doesn’t work because the homeowner you believe whose house is burning doesn’t believe it is. You telling them it is when it isn’t makes your message inefficient. Now if they see their house burning…they will ask you for help and you can step in and tell them the solution to their crisis. It’s best to develop a relationship with the your neighbor so when tragedy hits they will be open to your message.

            By the way doesn’t Apostle Paul say we shouldn’t judge non believers? I am assuming (please correct me if I am wrong) that you don’t believe folks from the lgbt community can be Christians. If this is true–aren’t you ignoring the teachings of Scripture?

            It must be exhausting being the arbiter of others’ sin…your time might be spent on the splinters in your own eyes. I know I have to excise a few 2×4’s out of mine. I am hoping when I do so I will be able to see more clearly how I am to treat all of Abba’s image bearers.

            Lastly- There is NOWHERE in Scripture where it says that it is the Word of God. JESUS is the Word of God. the Bible/Scripture leads us to Him. Jesus is the exact representation of the Father (Hebrews 1:3)…so should we want to know what Abba looks like we need only look at Jesus. He is the center of the center–He is the lens with which we exegete Scripture. If what we find doesn’t look like Him…we wrestle with it and dig deeper.

            Peace, grace, and rest to you–my sibling in Christ.

          • UCanBeVictorious

            NOWHERE?

            “Thus you nullify the Word of God by your tradition that you have handed down…” – Jesus, Mark 7:13

            “All Scripture is God-breathed…” II Timothy 3:16

            “Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke as they were carried by along by the Holy Spirit.” II Peter 1:20-12

            If you don’t believe the Bible is God’s Word, why do you bother to quote it and refer to it? That makes no sense whatsoever.

            Furthermore, I totally agree with you that Jesus is the Word of God. It was Jesus Himself who said, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.” – Jesus, Matthew 24:35 & Luke 21:33. Why is that so important?

            It was Jesus who said that marriage is between a MAN and a WOMAN (Mark 10:7-8), not a MAN and a MAN or a WOMAN and a WOMAN. And Jesus added that that was how it was from the beginning.

            You are mixed up Kevin. Paul said we should judge those who claim to be Christians but are immoral. Read I Corinthians 5 and check it out for yourself. Instead of trusting your memory of what the Scriptures say, I suggest you actually read them first before trying to quote them and make a point that contradicts the Scripture.

            So no, I’m not ignoring the Scriptures. You are twisting them. You have things all mixed up. I’m not arbitrating anyone’s sins. I’m simply saying what God has already said. And when people argue that you can be a Christian and be married to a man even if you are a man then I am simply saying, “You are wrong. The Bible does not teach that. That’s being an ambassador.” What part of that don’t you get?

          • Kevin Thomas

            None of those verses say that Scripture is the Word of God– They are the words of God……but Jesus is the Word of God. I love Scripture–I hold a high view of it.

            Seems like you have an agenda you are furthering…I haven’t mentioned once my stance on LGBT folks except that Abba is smitten with them (which compels me to be as well).

            You have been demeaning, disrespectful, sarcastic, and contemptuous towards me and I have responded with nothing but grace (and it hasn’t been easy 🙂 )

            BTW–Have you performed the plank eye exercise yet? I am off to do this very thing…

            Bless you!

            k

          • UCanBeVictorious

            Because you can’t refute the truth you resort to ugly, false accusations. Aren’t you the one preaching about not judging? I’ve discovered over the years that the ones who preach the most about not judging are usually the ones who are the most judgmental. Thanks for proving my point once again. You are a very mixed up person Kevin. You claim the Bible is not the Word of God, and yet you claim you hold a high view of Scripture.

          • Kevin Thomas

            I treasure scripture as it drives me to the Word of God Jesus–the author and perfector of my faith. I don’t believe we need a Quadrality as the Trinity is sufficient. I am a Christian NOT a Biblican.

            I don’t believe I have judged anyone…We need only look at your posts and see how you have spoke to other image bearers of Abba.

          • Amen. It is exhausting engaging with those who beliefs of what they think they know of their Bible far succeeds what they actually know.

          • Amen

          • Where is love the sinner hate the sin?

          • UCanBeVictorious

            You’re a “rev.” and you don’t know where that is? Amazing. Are you really a “rev?” What’s the name of the church you pastor?

            The story of the woman caught in adultery is a very good example. According to Old Testament law, the woman should have been stoned (along with the man the Pharisees caught her with by the way since you can’t catch someone in adultery . My guess it was another Pharisee). However, Jesus told her, “Neither do I condemn you,” (loving the sinner), but Jesus added RIGHT after that, “Go and sin no more.” (that’s called hating the sin)

            Oh yes, I just thought of another one. The lame man at the pool that Jesus healed. Healing the man was love, wouldn’t you say? But it says also that later Jesus found him at the temple and told him, “See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you.” (That sure sounds like hating the sin to me. Actually, you can easily make the point that it was love that motivated Jesus tell him to stop sinning because Jesus loved the man so much that He didn’t want anything worse to happen to him. That’s real love “rev.”) Wow! I feel very important teaching a “rev!”

          • Kevin Thomas

            But you aren’t Jesus–perfect in every way– He seems like He would be in the position to call out everyone on their “stuff” because he didn’t even have a speck in HIs eye.

            For me “Go and sin no more” does not equate with “hating the sin”…. BTW…do you think He really thought she would NEVER sin again? It is my understanding that the ancient Hebrews wrote hyperbolically to make a point. I can think of several examples of this in Scripture (Ie….you can move mountains with enough faith might be another good example.

            You continue to use sarcasm in your posts….hmmm… My understanding is disdain and sarcasm aren’t fruit of the Spirit..am I wrong?

          • UCanBeVictorious

            You prove once again that those who go around accusing others of being judgmental are usually the ones who are the most judgmental. All you can do is make ugly accusations because you can’t refute the truth.

          • Kevin Thomas

            I am not accusing you of anything….we need only look at your many posts. #potkettleblack.

            I do wish you the best…k

          • UCanBeVictorious

            Obviously I’m not Jesus. Only Jesus is Jesus. Haven’t you ever read I John 2:6? “Whoever claims to live in Him must walk as Jesus did.” You continue to pervert the Holy Scriptures. How can you claim to hold a high view of the Scriptures when you keep perverting them?

          • Kevin Thomas

            Let me ask you a question…do you walk ask He did?

          • LOL So your interpretation of those two is that Jesus tells us to identify the sins of others, confront them , love them but hate what they do even though that contradicts what he told those accusing the woman and what he taught in the parable of the wheat and the tares.

            Gandhi was quoted saying “Love the sinner hate the sin” in regards to those who do evil deeds against others

          • UCanBeVictorious

            I knew you really weren’t a rev.

          • Yes how dare I properly use scripture.

          • So point to where I am wrong

      • brothergc

        If Your debating The Rev Gerald You should know that He believes that being gay is not a sin, That the scriptures were misinterpeted on the subject , He believes that You can not disagree with a LBGT lifestyle and if You do Your promoting hate and your a bigot . He belongs to a church that supports LBGTs’ and gay mariage

        • You are stating all truths except I don’t know what a LGBT lifestyle is. I have no problem with those that disagree. The problem comes when people use their religion to oppress others.

          • UCanBeVictorious

            You don’t know what a LGBT lifestyle is? That is hilarious! Why are you commenting on this article then?

            I don’t see anyone here using their religion to oppress anyone. Your problem “rev.” is that you are using religion to condone what God clearly calls sin. What for church are you a “rev.” of anyway?

          • How about you tell me what a LGBT lifestyle is?

          • UCanBeVictorious

            Please tell me you are just PLAYING dumb for some goofy reason “rev.”

          • Not playing dumb please share with me what you think a lgbt lifestyle?

        • RoundRocker

          So?

  • Christopher Ferreira

    People arguing about something that may or may have not happened thousands of years ago when everyone was so much more gullible.

  • danieltb

    Mind-melting insanity – much worse than the ancient pagans (who also made false gods after their own image) because they are blaspheming the actual God.

    God is merciful – I’m not taking away from that reality (there is mercy and love for us all) – and I must acknowledge that my sin has also been shocking… but how much more until judgment?

    • What was blasphemous about what I wrote? Nothing I offered contradicts scripture.

      • danieltb

        I’m sorry, how many miraculous virgin births was it that you had scientifically studied again? Oh, zero was it?

        Being that this is so, what you’re able to “offer” is limited to mere speculation–and the speculation you’re “offering” smacks of conformity to the world [Ro 12:2]. That *is* contrary to Scripture.

  • Franko Z

    As Karl Marx wrote, “The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e. the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force. The class which has the means of material production at its disposal, has control at the same time over the means of mental production, so that thereby, generally speaking, the ideas of those who lack the means of mental production are subject to it. The ruling ideas are nothing more than the ideal expression of the dominant material relationships, the dominant material relationships grasped as ideas; hence of the relationships which make the one class the ruling one, therefore, the ideas of its dominance.”

    Now think of Corporate America (e.g., Apple) and its rulers (e.g., Tim Cook) or of Hollywood. LGBT and its allies are now the ruling class. And what’s a better way to legitimize the dominant ideology than by adding the sacred status into it?

  • brothergc

    I have a question , and let Me say 1st off That I do not know one way or another , or am I passing some kind of judgement , but Why do You always see LBGT people flying a rainbow flag , see the rainbow is used in The bible as a promise by God that He would never flood the earth . Is their a connection ? Or is this just a conidence ?

    • RoundRocker

      Google is your friend.

    • Dant e

      Satan and those who follow him often try to copy or usurp things of God, it is no coincidence.

    • UCanBeVictorious

      God is the Creator. The only thing the devil has ever created is chaos. God creates; the devil perverts. The devil perverts everything he can. He perverts the Word of God, he perverts the truth, he perverts s#x, and he perverts God’s symbols–like the rainbow. The devil is a liar and a thief. He’s lied repeatedly about LGBT lifestyles and now he’s trying to steal the rainbow because the only thing he can create is chaos.

  • Archibald_Bomwitz

    Thank God that I am an atheist!

    • Dean Bruckner

      Heh

    • UCanBeVictorious

      And you have nothing better to do with what you have left of your life than to spend it on a web site arguing with people that someone you don’t believe exists, doesn’t exist? If I were an atheist I’d be spending what time I had left on earth living it up man. You must be reeeeeeallly bored.

  • Jannet Duff

    The odds of being a shark attack victim, 1 in 11,500,000

    The odds of being in a plane crash, 1 in 11,000,000

    The odds of being stuck by lightning in the course of a year, 1 in 700,000

    The odds of being killed in car crash, 1 in 5000

    The odds of that pastor or priest in your church being a child molester, 1 in 50

    The odds of your kid being molested in a public restroom by someone who donned women’s clothing in the attempt to convince a judge that he’s transgendered – indeterminate because it hasn’t happened yet.

    • UCanBeVictorious

      It hasn’t happened yet? Really? Try Googling: “5 Times ‘Transgender’ Men Abused Women And
      Children In Bathrooms” and start dealing with reality Jannet. I’d paste the links but Stream doesn’t allow that.

      Where does it say that a man has to dress like a woman to claim he is transgendered? I haven’t read that law anywhere Jannet.

      And while you are at it, Google these:

      Man Exploits ‘Tolerance,’ CHOKES 8-Yr-Old Girl
      in Public Bathroom (This just happened 5-13-2016)

      Police: Man attacks 6-year-old girl in women’s
      bathroom

      Man Beats 9-Year-Old Girl in Jacksonville Best Buy Bathroom

      Man charged after 10-year-old girl finds him in
      women’s restroom stall

      • Nothing to do with transgender

        • Paul Burgett

          That doesn’t make any sense. It does have something to do with transgender. It has to do with laws that are being passed that allow anyone to claim without evidence that they are the opposite gender and in the name of transgender rights allow unrestricted access to all public restrooms. I’m not saying that transgendered people are committing these crimes. But it is obvious that people are using the laws as a loophole to enable criminal behavior.

        • UCanBeVictorious

          Are you for real dude? Try reading the story once. “5 Times Transgender Men Abused Women And Children In Bathrooms.” It has everything to do with transgender. Sorry it blows a hole wide open in your argument. That’s what the story is ABOUT. It’s pretty obvious from this that you can’t handle the truth.

    • Liz Litts

      and you keep on doing

      • Jannet Duff

        Sure, whatever. Are you just choosing to ignore actual facts either way, beceause you cannot believe that transgender people might actually be deicent human beings, or that it’s impossible that some ministers might actually be peverts.

        • brothergc

          just like you are choosing to ignor reality , You keep beating the LBGT drum while you do not seem to care if others safety is put in jepordy , all You care about is winning Your little debate and promoting your agenda . Pretty cold blooded IMO

          • Jannet Duff

            So you agree in ignoring the facts then, or are you ok with pedophile Christian ministers.

          • UCanBeVictorious

            That’s where you are wrong Jannet. Pedophile ministers are not Christians. Jesus said that you will know a tree by its fruit. Calling onself a Christian is not what makes one a Christian.

          • Jannet Duff

            Well for once, I can agree with part of something in your post.
            But how do you keep children safe from pedophile ministers, there does seem to be quite a few in the papers as of late. How can you tell a real Christian minister from a pedophile one. They all dress the same, they all preach the same.

            If your prepared to paint all transgender people with a ” chance that may be pedophiles ” brush, why not paint others with that same brush.

          • UCanBeVictorious

            Why? That’s very easy. It isn’t even a religious issue. It’s simply a matter of plain ole common sense Jannet. If your birth certificate says “male” on it, then you have no business whatsoever going into a public restroom marked “women.” It isn’t just Bible believing Christians that oppose the “bathroom bills,” and Obama’s dictatorial mandate Jannet.

          • brothergc

            I would like to add That under curent conditions their is no way to tell a true tansgender from a person using this bathroon issue as a excuse as no proof is required all one had to do is say I am transgender , that opens doors to put women and children at risk

          • UCanBeVictorious

            That is EXACTLY the point brother.

          • brothergc

            also Their is serious talk on the Capitol hill about impeaching the president , He has no legal athority as stated on fox news . Also seeing That the POTUS is threating removing funding states depend on that money for their school lunch program , forcing the poor children with no money for lunch to go hungry
            Pretty sad IMO

          • brothergc

            no I am not and let me say if I ever found out about one I would call the police as I am required to by law . Your attempt at diversion will not work on me . so Let me ask You are You ok with allowing someone pretending to be a transgnder access to any restroom or shower they like ? Bear In mind that under the curent policy one has to provide NO proof that they are what they say they are ? ( and how would one prove it one way or the other ?) Would You open the floodgates to these prevs , putting out women and childern at risk, ignoring their rights of privacy all so you can “feel comfortable taking a pee” ?
            Sorry but your comfort comes at a high price , too high IMO

          • Jannet Duff

            Ok you got me. I have yet to read this “agenda” of you have come across it, please send me the link. All I want is to be able to pee in piece.

    • brothergc

      already has happend Google ” Man Chokes 8-Year-Old Girl In Public Restroom” by the chicago tribune
      and that is only one case of Many Your argument is not vaild

      • BadBadPanda17

        Umm that guy wasn’t wearing women’s clothing or pretending to be transgender, so Jannet is still correct.

  • Jannet Duff

    Anti-homosexual argument.

    [Collected on the Internet, 2000]

    Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

    I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.

    a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

    b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

    c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

    d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?

    e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

    f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this?

    g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

    h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

    i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

    j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

    I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

    Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.

    Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.

    • Thewryobservator

      I’m not quite sure what your up to, here. But it looks like mockery of a particularly common but uniformed sort (though it’s true, a lot of believers aren’t reasoning this through soundly – which says nothing regarding the legitimacy of LGBT “theology.” I think, though, this argument rooted in a misunderstanding of the law as applied to Israel under the first covenant – and the redemption that it foreshadows. I guess if you’re a Jew under that first covenant, you have a problem. But it’s not the first covenant’s laws, it’s the rejection of its fulfillment. But I don’t think that’s your issue, is it? Regardless, you don’t have to go to the Old testament laws regarding prohibiting homosexual relations to make a case – all you have to do is look at the whole bible, New testament included, to see that the only sexual relationships that have full positive affirmation are those between a man and his wife. (Minor OT exceptions that might be alluded to are all heterosexual, regardless.) As to death penalties ect., under the New Covenant no such thing is ever enjoined (but of course, you know that.) An erring brother or sister (or generally obstinate person insisting on the sort of thing so many wish to affirm that the NT does not) is to be lovingly confronted – restored, or, in the case of unrelenting obstinacy removed (to be welcomed back if and when reason returns.)

      • Jannet Duff

        It’s not supposed to be taken seriously. But everyone can ignore verses they don’t like, it twist meanings around .

    • UCanBeVictorious

      You’ve got several problems with your sarcasm Jannet. First, you obviously don’t understand that there were moral laws, ceremonial laws, and dietary and sanitary laws in the Old Testament.

      For example, the ceremonial clothing commandment that forbid mixing wool and linen showed that in the coming New Covenant, Christians are not supposed to mix the Spirit (represented by linen) with the flesh (represented by wool).

      Second, true Christians don’t live under the Old Covenant (O.T.), they live under the New Covenant (N.T.). There is not one single s#xual moral law in the O.T. that Jesus said is no longer sin under the New Covenant. Not one. If there is, show me where it is at. There isn’t one in all the N.T.

      There are several Scripture passages in the New Testament that clearly say that homos#xuality is a sin. For example, Jude 7 which says, “In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to s#xual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire” (NIV 1978).

      I don’t know how you could make it more clear than Jude 7 does that homos#xuality is still a sin.

      Romans 1:26-27 and I Corinthians 6:9-11 also make it quite plain that homos#xuality is still a sin.

      Jesus said Himself that marriage is between a MAN and a WOMAN (Mark 10:7-8).

      • Jannet Duff

        And there are laws you can ignore just because.

        • Liz Litts

          Best not comment on things you know nothing about. Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it and prove it –which you did admireably

          • Jannet Duff

            Like you, believing in an imaginary god !!

          • Paul Burgett

            Okay, so the argument then isn’t really about homosexuality or transgenderism at all, since you’re saying that God is imaginary. The problem then appears that Christians are following rules that have no basis in reality because God doesn’t exist.
            The question then is what if God really is real? Does that change how you would see his commandments.

          • Jannet Duff

            So, do I believe there is something after this life, yes a I do. I just don’t believe my actions need to be justified by a book that’s not only thousands of years old, but has been through several revisions and changes. I treat people as I excpect to be treated. Do I follow the basic commandments, yes I do. I have no qualms about my life after this one.

          • Paul Burgett

            Janet I appreciate your sincere reply. I think treating people the way we want to be treated is one of the best ways to have relationships with our friends, family, and neighbors.
            Let me share with you why I personally love the Bible, and why I believe it contains real truths that have eternal application. I believe that God is real, and even more that he created each of us to have intimate relationship with him and with each other. And the only way I can have true love and truly love others is through knowing God, by believing that Jesus really was who he said he was and trusting him completely. When I read the Bible from that perspective everything is in this meta-narrative, building up to a climax of a savior that will return to dry every tear from every eye and bring peace to the earth.
            I probably will not ever be justified, and that’s okay with me. I hope that you’ll come to know Jesus as I do, to have even more to look forward to in the life to come. You sure seem like a very sweet person.

          • UCanBeVictorious

            Let me get this straight (pun intended). You don’t believe there is a God. Therefore, this life is all that there is then. I have no idea how old you are, but in light of eternity, you only have a short time left to live on this earth. And out of that short time you have left on this earth, you are spending it on a web site arguing with people that there is no God? If I believed like you claim you do, I guarantee you I would be living life to the fullest, not wasting it away on a web site arguing with people who believe in someone I don’t believe in. That is absolutely pointless.

          • Jannet Duff

            I believe Goodnes is in a persons heart, on how you act, and how You treat others.You don’t have to believe in a being sitting in a chair lording over us, to be a good person. The same as being a Christian does not automatically make you a decent human being.
            So, do I believe there is something after this life, yes a I do. I just don’t believe my actions need to be justified by a book that’s not only thousands of years old, but has been through several revisions and changes.

          • UCanBeVictorious

            Oh, I get it now, you do believe there is a god…..it’s YOU. YOU are the one who decides what is right and wrong. Sorry, but that sounds pretty arrogant. I would never go there. I’d rather trust the one who created it all. He’s the only one who has the authority to make the rules. Deciding what’s right and wrong; that’s exactly what happened in the Garden of Eden Jannet. Satan tempted Eve to eat of the fruit of the tree (that she and Adam were forbidden to eat of) with the lie that she could become like God knowing what is right and what is wrong. Oooops. Big mistake. That’s how humanity got into the mess we are into today Jannet.

    • Jeanette Victoria ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

      Ah another same cut and paste by a person who doesn’t understand the difference between ceremonial Jewish law and morality.

      • Mo86

        They never do. They’ve cracked open a Bible, much less read the OK Testament.

  • AAACarpenter

    In 1980, Pastor David Wilkerson was given a two fold vision. The first part involved a fire in America that would change the course of history. That occurred on 9-11-2001. That fire not only changed the course of history for America, but the whole world.
    The second part of his vision was that the United States would be destroyed by fire because of the homosexual agenda. Where was that agenda in 1980? where is it today?

    • What?

      • AAACarpenter

        Part one of his vision that he wrote about has come to pass. If you are aware of the news today, you will see that the second part is pending.

  • brothergc

    Hear is something to consider and ponder , If You are part of this movemet that supports alowing transgender access to showers and bathrooms , then consider this , You are suporting removing the barrers that that will open the floodgates to people who will out right lie to take advantage of this , al they have to do is say I am trasngender NO proof is required , and while we are at it their is no way to disprove that they are lying . It is not like the racial issues back when, then one caould easy see that a person was white , black , or what ever , So That dog won’t hunt .
    Also consider that if this bathroom issue becomes the norm , and people get hurt , would it not be on Your heads ?
    People are already taking advantage of this who are not transgender it is in the news
    Finaly Let Me say this , while I do have compassion on those who suffer with true Transgender , Your comfort at the expence of the saftey and privacy rights of others comes at too High a price .

    • Kevin Thomas

      Perverts/molesters have always had access to bathrooms. We have had laws on the books in Minnesota for trans folks to use the bathroom they identify with for 30 years with no issues. We are vigilant with our children.

      • brothergc

        yes and acording to you we should not even care ? wow ! sure buddie keep that blind eye closed no love here folks moving on

        • Kevin Thomas

          IMHO We should focus on real issues…Not on solutions in search of a problem.

          • brothergc

            glad you agree so lets just keep it as it was for years Biological males to mens room and biological women to the ladies room

          • Kevin Thomas

            You mean before the Governor of NC got involved and made an issue over nothing?

          • brothergc

            yep say back to 1970 lol

          • Kevin Thomas

            I am talking about the current Govenor.

          • billy b

            The governors hand was forced by the Charlotte City Council.
            The bathroom/locker room portion of the ordinance would have
            required public accommodations to allow grown men shower, undress,
            and use bathrooms in facilities designated for women and girls. I would hardly call it a NOTHING issue.

          • Kevin Thomas

            Much ado about nothing…Governor was opportunistic and used situation to push his bigotry. This was about bathrooms and school showers for trans kids….TRANS kids…..girls usually have separate showers. It’s not like the 60’s. Trans folks have been using bathrooms they identify with for years. We have had laws like Charlottes for over 30 years with NO issues. We aren’t the only state. This has NEVER been about bathrooms..

          • billy b

            You think it’s nothing….there are many young girls, women, and fathers who disagree. And stop with the name calling it has nothing to do with bigotry

          • Kevin Thomas

            Based in fear…. There is no data to back the fear. As I stated earlier there are states that have allowed trans folks to use the bathroom they identify with with NO issues for decades. Perps will act out no matter what the law says. Trans folks are not perpetrators. Human rights are for…well…humans. If it’s not bigotry….what is it?

            A Bigot is a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred and intolerance.

            #iftheshoefitswearit

          • billy b

            Well then the concerns of young girls, women, and fathers is not bigotry by definition.

            “Human rights are for…well…humans”.
            Exactly my point for young girls, women, and fathers.

            Your definition of Bigot….
            I’m not saying you but there are an awful lot of LBGT folk (and proponents) who fit that description to a T toward those of differing views and opinions.
            Remember a difference of opinion does not make one a bigot.

          • Kevin Thomas

            When one makes social policy based on false pretense… it’s bigotry. Bigotry by it’s nature is irrational and capricious. Again there is NO data supporting these laws. It wasn’t too long ago that there were laws against mixed race marriages….another case of bigotry.

          • billy b

            What false pretense are you speaking of?

            The concerns of young girls, women, and fathers is justified. It’s not irrational, capricious or bigoted.

          • Kevin Thomas

            I understand the fear is real –but it is unwarranted show me one nonpartisan review or study that shows a correlation between molestation and laws that permit trans folks to use the bathroom they identify with. There just isn’t any… Show me statistics from law journals or reports. The data isn’t there. It is indeed irrational and capricious. Education is the answer. There is NO justification for such discrimination. NONE.

          • billy b

            It’s not just molestation. It’s as simple as my daughter goes to shower and in the locker room is a girl (actually a guy with a penis when he disrobes). This is not a nothing issue as you’ve tried to make it. My daughter (and my wife and I) have rights in these regards. Nothing to do with bigotry.

          • Kevin Thomas

            Red herring….no one is talking about showers at the local YMCA…it is talking about bathrooms. Again this is about limiting rights for the LGBT community. It has EVERYTHING to do with bigotry. You haven’t shown me any data that warrants your fears…

            Indeed you do have the right not to use public restrooms. Don’t most women’s have separate stalls with a door?

          • billy b

            Bullshit Kevin. This is not a red herring. This is a real world situation and has everything to do with what is happening.

          • Kevin Thomas

            Let me know when there are folk’s with penis’s showering with your daughter and wife in a communal shower and we will talk…. not gonna happen.

          • billy b

            …or even just disrobe in front of my daughter. Doesn’t have to be showering.
            Common sense needs to prevail.

          • Kevin Thomas

            Do you know any transgender folk? If they are pre op–ask them if they would disrobe in front of your daughter or wife.

          • billy b

            I actually have a client who is transgender. We have a good working relationship. We’ve both exchanged gifts with each other on several occasions.

            What you’re asking is a little ridiculous don’t you think?

          • billy b

            It’s interesting that one of my best friends who is gay thinks this bathroom/locker issue is ludicrous.

          • Kevin Thomas

            Being gay and trans are not even in the same ballpark so to speak..

          • billy b

            True

          • Kevin Thomas

            It’s cool that you have a close friend who is gay…You have my respect.

          • Kevin Thomas

            Great–seems like it would be a perfect question to ask. I suspect I know the answer. How about you ask and let me know what your friend says. Why is educating oneself ridiculous? I’m sure your friend will appreciate your wanting to know the truth rather than succumbing to irrational fear without being enlightened.

          • brothergc

            based on fear ? I think not here is a quote from a concerned female
            I did not write it but it does reflect what I support , it was posted by “el” here on the stream who is Female who was replying to a suporter debating for the rights of the transgender bathroom issue
            ” QUOTE”
            “Yet the answer is to allow women and children to be more vulnerable? I have been in restrooms with trans, and it was not a big concern for me. What is, it that any predator could pretend to be trans or gender fluid and have easy access to take advantage of us. We see evidence in the news of this very thing happening. I have listened to a trans agree this was a dangerous policy. There are more women and children who have been abused than there are transgenders. Why do they end up swept aside and told they are not a part of the politically correct priority list? Why do their traumas, the triggers of seeing men in formerly private areas not matter? Women fought for equality for years, and now we find another area we are not equal. One woman who told her employer she had trouble with men in the restroom due to childhood abuse. She was told she could resign and receive her severance pay, or be fired. Is that the way we treat survivors of abuse!? Another woman was slipped the date rape drug, and could not even speak as she staggered to the ladies room to get away from him. He followed, but eventually left as it was noticeable he was a male inside the ladies room doorway. What happens when it is routine to see men in the ladies room in this instance? Do you see it makes the situation more dangerous for women and children. In some states it is a violation with a hefty fine to question a male in the ladies room. Free speech thrown out, to make it easier for any predator, voyeur or prankster to mess with us. I would like to think we matter too.”

          • Kevin Thomas

            Straight white middle aged males (the ones that do the vast majority of molesting) have always been able to sneak in bathrooms. We have had laws for 30 years in Minnesota with no such issues.

            The story about the date drug tragic as it is–has NOTHING to do with trans folks peeing in the bathroom where they identify.

            There is no increased danger with these policies….NONE. Show me a nonpartisan study and I will read it. There aren’t any. This whole thing is much ado about about nothing. It’s based on irrational fear and bigotry. For Jesus followers to sign onto this thing is shameful.

          • brothergc

            what I find shamefull is one who turns a blind eye to peoples ligit concerns , I find your lack of compassion and understanding you seem to have to adress any of the concerns of “EL” disturbing .

            In a generel scence I find that ( not directed at your personaly) people who use the word “bigot” are useally the are the bigest bigots .

            For Me it comes down to a simple logical conclusion , the rights of the few do not outweigh the rights of the many , and it is tyranny to do so and I do beleive as “EL” states . and i quote “Why do they end up swept aside and told they are not a part of the politically correct priority list? “

          • Kevin Thomas

            Justice is blind…it has to be… We can’t make social policy based on numbers of folks affected. There is no empirical basis for these laws. I am sure it brought discomfort and was deemed “politically correct” for white and black folks to use the same bathroom, inter marry, and attend the same schools. In the end–Human rights are for humans and last I checked–trans folks are human. It really is that simple for me.

          • brothergc

            ok I disagree and say that Tex Taylor painted your picture pretty clear , BTW try reading “gay is not the new black” Your compairing this to racial issues does not work I can visually tell a black man from a white . Transgender is all about how I feel , no proof is required so anyone can and will use this as a excuse to do god knows what, so that dog wont hunt
            DONE here , bye

          • Kevin Thomas

            Grace and peace to you my brother!

          • brothergc

            Thank You and to You as well 😀

          • Tex Taylor

            If it’s a nothing issue, why did eleven states this week sue the Obama Administration because of the Administration’s implied threats of cutting funding then?

          • Kevin Thomas

            A couple thoughts… How many states supported slavery? How many states outlawed mixed race marriage? How many states still allow for capital punishment when virtually the entire civilized world rejects it?

            If 11 states sue the Government how many states aren’t? Seems the 11 hold a minority view..

            Me thinks that it isn’t really about bathrooms…but about something much bigger than “bathrooms”. Are these states run by folks that are in the opposite party than the current administration? I ask this as someone who is non partisan and is neither conservative or liberal as they are human constructs of this world. I am a citizen the KIngdom of God and Jesus had a lot to say about how we treat people.

          • Tex Taylor

            A couple of thoughts…

            So, you want to compare clear mental illness to slavery? Gotcha. LOL If I were black, I would be damn offended at that kind of abject stupidity.

            America was far more civilized when capital punishment was far more common. If you haven’t taken a good look lately, that “civilized world” isn’t looking so civil anymore.

            That’s 11 states in one week. More are to follow, just like the wretched and failed Obamacare.

            Me thinks that it isn’t really about bathrooms…but about something much bigger than “bathrooms”

            You got that right, by accident. It’s a much bigger issue than bathrooms. It’s you and this thug administration, grossly incompetent and failed, ramming your perverted, twisted nature down the throats of the greatest majority of the American public. And it is specifically directed towards the church because the church gets in the way of a neopagan activist masquerading as Good Samaritan like you.

            Jesus had a lot to say about sexual perversion, but somehow your selective memory fails to register that. So much so, he toasted two of the towns on account of it, calling to both detestable and an abomination in both the Old and New Testaments.

          • Kevin Thomas

            First of all transgenders aren’t mentally ill. The DSM5 doesn’t diagnose them as such.

            The majority of the public doesn’t care about this….only the misinformed pharisees that are motivated by hate, ignorance, and fear.

            Where did God level towns because of transgenders..? Where did Jesus call transgender folks an abomination?

            Ad a follower of Christ I am compelled to ascribe unsurpassable worth to all through self sacrificial love as Jesus did on the Cross.

          • Tex Taylor

            The euphemism transgender is by definition mentally ill – severely mentally ill. Imbeciles like you do them an injustice by trying to normalize something that is clearly abnormal and requires treatment by a trained psychiatrist. The fact you try to justify something by the love of Christ that is clearly twisted, deems you a demon of the worst sort and little more.

            I dare an activist like you to demand this issue be put to a national referendum and we will vote on it and we’ll see how many people care about it. I warned people when the depraved like you crammed by judicial fiat legalizing “same s ex” marriage, it was only a matter of time before your feckless ilk would justify anything and everything under the guise of “feelings” and “rights.”

            Where did God level towns because of transgenders..? Where did Jesus call transgender folks an abomination?

            Detestable work for you? A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the Lord your God detests anyone who does this. ~ Deuteronomy 22:5

            Jesus said clearly homosexuals will have no part of heaven. I don’t know what you are, but you’re most certainly no follower of Christ. You’re the caricature of Pharisaical…

          • Kevin Thomas

            Are you a psychologist? Do you make a living making clinical diagnoses?

            Also do follow Jesus? I am wondering what He would have to say about your insulting a sibling in Christ?

            Speaking of the Old Testament:

            a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

            b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

            c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

            d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?

            e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

            f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this?

            g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

            h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

            i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

            j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

            As far as my status with Abba: I resolve to know nothing but Christ and Him Crucified 1 Cor 2:2

            Lastly-Transgender folks aren’t homosexual. I encourage you to study up on the issue….you may learn something that might challenge your thinking a group of Abba’s image bearers.

            Blessings to you brother Tex!

            Kevin

          • Tex Taylor

            Standard gibberish by a gay activist trying desperately to normalize his perversion.

            Also do follow Jesus? I am wondering what He would have to say about your insulting a sibling in Christ?

            Gee, I don’t know. I wonder what Christ might say about you attempting to marginalize the Torah, the Torah Christ Himself taught from? That ever occur to you, scholar? You going to correct Him when you stand in judgment, or you going to go down your litany of complaints before you bend the knee and hit the floor?

            Are you a psychologist? Do you make a living making clinical diagnoses?

            Psychologists? You mean liberal arts majors like you that couldn’t handle the academics of math and science of medicine? Good Lord. No wonder you’re confused. Too many of your psychologists have been trying to convince us that it’s normal for anyone to identify as anything they want. I think I’ll self-identify as a woman tomorrow and follow your mother into the women’s shower at the health club with my cell phone.

            Psychologists are part of the problem, sport, as millions of useful idiots like you actually believe them and can’t recognize practicing charlatans.

            If the Old Testament troubles you and you can’t differentiate the ceremonial laws of the Exodus from a moral law of Deuteronomy, “christian” (cough cough), how about this New Testament statement?

            Know ye not that the unjust shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor effeminate nor homosexuals will not inherit God’s kingdom.

            If you’re a Christian, I’m Muhammad.

          • Kevin Thomas

            I am grateful that Abba makes the determination my brother! I will not return insults with an insult. Grace and peace to you- much love!!

            Now I have a plank to attend to….

          • Tex Taylor

            The devil quotes scripture…and trembles. You won’t return “insults” because the further we go, the more I’ll expose you as a fraud.

          • Kevin Thomas

            I believe you have done a very solid job exposing yourself in the way you have responded to me and others on this thread. I sincerely wish for you to find some peace in your soul.

          • Tex Taylor

            I put very little worth in what you might think of my ‘soul.’

            It’s not terribly difficult for me to expose the intellectually bankruptcy of your claims – especially one who believes it is perfectly acceptable of each of us to self-identify as we wish. If there weren’t millions like you as woefully confused and twisted, I could actually find great humor in that depth of confusion.

            What I do find in you, Kevin, is the perfect caricature of the twisted individual Dr. Brown was directing his observations. In that sense, you have provided a clear picture of the warped idea of culture in America these days as it is in steep decline.

            And I find you and the PuffHo author up there pretentious, sanctimonious frauds, masquerading as “scholarly” under the guise of some deluded form of claiming Christ. There were a lot of fools who tried to do much the same in Paul’s day that Paul forewarned us would arrive in great numbers in the last days.

            And I believe we are there.

          • Kevin Thomas

            You continue with your vitriol.. Why can’t we have a conversation without you hurling insults? I believe I have shown you nothing but love and respect throughout this thread. Why is it difficult for you to reciprocate?

          • Tex Taylor

            That’s not vitriol, though you would like to try and frame it as much to hide behind your bluff being called. That’s the inconsistency of your claims vis-a-vis your message.

            You’re a wolf trying attempting to wear sheep’s clothing. And Jesus was most critical of the Pharisees of His day. So should I be…

            You also are a moral coward, IMO. I would like an answer from you as to how you find the Torah of such disrepute, why and how you could possibly claim Christ? Because Christ most certainly didn’t it, as He demonstrated throughout His life including answering Satan three times direct from the book of Deuteronomy.

            What do you know that this Christ you claim doesn’t?

          • Kevin Thomas

            My thought is if there is a “bluff” to be called it can be done in a loving-respectful manner.

            I just can’t see how I have acted as a pharisee…. I am not binding up anyone with religious chains… wolves come to devour…I don’t believe I am the one “devouring” on this thread

            Jesus gave us two commands love God and man. Paul gave us a beautiful description of love in Corinthians 13. I know it has been nauseatingly overused at weddings–but I read it with new eyes the other day and found it compelling.

            I am also reminded when Jesus said “you heard it said…but I say”

            I am confused regarding your moral coward comment. I love Scripture as it drives me to the true Word of God –Jesus Christ–the Author and perfector of my faith. I believe Jesus is the exact representation/essence of the Father (Hebrews 1:3). When I study Scripture…I use a cruciform hermeneutic/lens. If my findings don’t look like Jesus I wrestle and dig deeper.

            I would still like to have a conversation with you that is based in kindness and love. Are you up for it?

            I love you my brother–can you say the same for me?

          • Tex Taylor

            I don’t believe I am the one “devouring” on this thread

            Do you really want kindness and love? Or do you seek my approval and your ears being tickled?

            Love, or should I say “true love,” is based first on truth. How does Satan devour again? By sweet lies, mostly, telling people what they want to hear. IMO, you have confused permissiveness with love.

            Christian, real Christians, have to be able to discern light from darkness, the narrow path from the wide one. Your approach, my friend, is much like the permissive parent. Your intent may even be sincere and you may think you’re doing the mentally ill a favor. But the end result is simply misery and the further decline and coarsening of the culture.

            And when you attempt to mock the Word of God, which you clearly did above when the same parroted nonsense I’ve read time and again from the field of skeptics and militant atheists and frankly have grown weary of refuting, let’s just say as a Christian, I read in the context of your entire collective and feel led to conclude deceit by an adversary, even if he couches his retorts in the context of ‘love.’

          • Kevin Thomas

            The Word of God is Jesus and the Bible is Scripture (For which I hold a high regard) which drives us to Him.

            We can disagree on this…that’s okay. But lets not resort to name calling and insults.

            You didn’t answer my question….Do you love me? Love is clearly defined in Corinthians 13. Do you? I can say unequivocally that I love you regardless of your stance on this issue, or how insulting and dismissive your words have been. Jesus thought enough of you to die for you and I am compelled to be willing to do the same.

          • Tex Taylor

            I will answer your questions when you begin to answer mine, Kevin. I want to know how you connect your supposed love of Christ with your clear mockery of those verses listed from the Pentateuch above that you carelessly used as retort. That is the “Bible” Jesus taught from and I would like to know how you can say you love Christ but ridicule what Christ has taught all of us.

          • Kevin Thomas

            Okay–fair enough. I don’t believe I was mocking Scripture (btw–you used “supposed”–I though we were going to cease with the rancor and dismissiveness). I hear that you perceived it that way and for that I apologize. Again I love Scripture–I believe we may exegete it differently. For me–it’s sole purpose is to drive us to Jesus. I believe it can be used in ways that it wasn’t meant to be. I believe in the Bible because I believe in Jesus (not the other way around). Now your turn…answer my question my brother…

          • Tex Taylor

            And I will continue to dismiss as long as I find you derelict in the responsibility of a true Christian, twisting scripture to support your agenda.

            A true Christian does not find mockery in the book of origins or the Law, no matter how dated, ruthless, or unmerciful it may read. It is Holy and beyond reproach. If that was not mockery, I don’t know what is. Were it not true or simply metaphor, Christ would have explained as much. He only told us He did not come to abolish the law, but fulfill. Your interpretation I find wanting.

            Having said that, I will now answer your question since you answered mine. I love you in the sense I love life – something I hold precious as we are all created in the image of God, including the unborn, the disabled, and the near death. I believe each of our souls of infinite worth – therefore you are worthy of my God, as are all men and women. I am not asked to love you. I am instructed to love you. I will do so. But I cannot demonstrate true love towards you when I allow you the permissions to go against what I believe God’s desire.

            But you are not one in anyway what you have demonstrated here, one I seek to pattern my life after. I find your faith tepid, as manifested from your previous posts to me and others. I find your desires wishing to please the world and not God. You are not what I would hold up as a shining example of an apostle. I find your judgment lacking, your thinking immature and childish, your dismissal of unnatural as natural both perverted and heretical.

            While I am not worthy to be judge as to whether your words to me sincere in your belief of Christ, I find your conclusions of order and culture an anathema to what Christ would desire. He clearly made us male and female – and I am not talking about the chromosomal abnormalities, but the matters of heart and mind. Men and women are to be a complement but to be discrete. Male and female are clearly not one and the same, and Christ made clear delineation between the two.

            What you support goes against all the laws of nature – therefore, by definition, it is against the laws of God. And yes, that makes me highly suspect of your motives.

          • Kevin Thomas

            Thanks for your answer! I believe it’s time for us to move on and part ways. May we both continue to seek Jesus–the author and perfecter of our faith. Grace and peace to you!

          • Tex Taylor

            And you too. If you were sincere in your words, I hope you will take a moment of introspection to consider not what we would demand, but what God would desire.

            And I think if you are sincere, you will conclude the imminent dangers both Dr. Brown and I find about the trend of the way this nation heading. The decay could not be more clear. We have confused tolerance with acceptance – and that is a very dangerous path to follow.

  • dotEdus

    I don’t understand Suzanne DeWitt Hall’s purpose in writing the article about a transgender Jesus on the Huffington Post website, especially in light of some of her comments in the comments section there.

    In the article, she describes her view of the virgin birth sequence:

    “…The Holy Spirit comes upon the second Eve, and the child takes
    flesh from her and is born. Born of her flesh. Born with XX chromosome
    pairing. Born genetically female, and yet trans-formed into man.”

    But in the comments section below the article she writes:

    “I wrote
    the piece at the prompting of the Holy Spirit and assumed that the
    Spirit’s purpose was simply to provoke thought about the creation
    process and the complexity of gender.”

    and

    “We have no
    idea what God’s process was in going from male rib to female person. Or
    from Mary’s flesh alone to Jesus, fully man? We cannot know what that
    process was. You can’t know what his genetics were like. There is nothing wrong with thinking about how these amazing events happened. God is not offended.”

    How do these statements fit together? She seems to say that the Holy Spirit told her that Jesus was born genetically female, but then says that we can’t know what Jesus’ genetics were like. Which of her statements does she believe is true and which is speculation?

    Perhaps she is still reviewing the comments on this site and will respond. (I couldn’t get my FB login to work on HuffingtonPost, unfortunately)

    • I said that I believed the Holy Spirit prompted my –writing of the article–. The article was meant to be slightly satirical, and I was not using the term transgender in the popular, contemporary usage. I was NOT trying to say that the Holy Spirit proclaimed Jesus to be transgender according to popular, contemporary usage.

      • Suzanne did Dr. Brown ever reach out to you to get clarification? Please know that Brown is known to misconstrued the words of others.

      • Tex Taylor

        No, that’s not “slightly satirical.” It’s a direct mockery of the God Almighty, as He is the Holy Spirit. You’re no better than the other charlatans you wish to satirize – just the mirror image.

        You’re offensive and a moral coward.

        But if you wish to prove me wrong, why don’t you share equal time by making a mockery of Muhammad the ‘Prophet?’ Do it right there in the insipid PuffHo with your name and picture attached to the article and I’ll give you a thumbs up.

        Do you have the courage to do as much?

        • It’s not about courage, it’s about calling. I am a Christian, called to write about the enormity of God and his love, called to point out that cramming him into a book-sized box does not make sense.

          • Tex Taylor

            Tell me, how exactly are you a Christian with comments like this?

            None of Jesus’ story makes sense. It is scandalously illogic

          • Use of the term “scandalous” to describe God’s use of Jesus for our salvation is nothing I coined. It’s a concept offered by brilliant Christian minds like CS Lewis and GK Chesterton.

            God on a cross is scandalous. Stripped naked: scandalous. Baby rather than conquering king: scandalous.

            I WISH I was brilliant enough to come to such gorgeous conclusion myself, but sadly, it’s old thinking. Deep, beautiful, rich, but old.

          • Tex Taylor

            It’s a concept offered by brilliant Christian minds like CS Lewis and GK Chesterton.

            You’re either deluded, a moron, or abjectly stupid. C.S. Lewis and G.K. Chesterton never said anything remotely that stupid and I dare you to prove it.

            You’re an utter fraud and reprobate…

          • Searching, and can’t find quotes which use the word “scandal” specifically. Though it doesn’t change the reality that they wrote about the concept. I’m guessing that you are taking the term as if it means something sordid, when it doesn’t, necessarily.

          • Tex Taylor

            Yeah, and you won’t find it either…

            You’re apparently some kind of Leftist that throws out the idiocy of Leftist pap about faith to an utterly ignorant audience called the Left, and have never been called on it because your audience was even more clueless than you.

            That may well work at PuffHO. It ain’t going to work here.

  • James Weaks

    “Rather, Jesus is the forever transforming man – the man who transforms sinners into saints, the man who transforms children of darkness into children of light, the man who calls us to be transformed by the renewing of our minds (see Romans 12:1-2). As I have stated many times, Jesus did not practice affirmational inclusion, as LGBT theologians claim. Rather, He practiced transformational inclusion, reaching out to lost sinners in their sin and transforming us into holy children of God.”

    Hear, hear!

  • Bayne MacGregor

    Revelations 1:13-14
    A vision of Jesus with white hair and womens clothes covering womens breasts (girdles on men are worn on the waist, on women the breasts. It says Paps, in the Greek Mastos, which is Women’s Breasts).
    Galations 3:28
    Shows that male and female distinctions do not matter because we are all one in Christ
    Matthew 19:12

    In Jesus’s time Transgender people were classed as Eunuchs, such as the Priestesses of Cybele one of Rome’s state religions found across the whole Roman Empire and there were similar all across the ancient world. Jesus tells us some are born that way, God the creator does that. Eunuchs in Jesus’s day were often prostitutes not celibate at all so modern attempts to make this passage about celibacy are saying Jesus must have got confused and didn’t really mean to say what he said and he must have meant something else. The last line isn’t Jesus saying people who don’t want to marry should be celibate because Eunuchs were often quite sexually active and the context of self-castrating religious Eunuchs at the time was Transgender Priestesses of many different religions.

    So there you go, some scripture people like to skip over, much like matthew 7:12 which is the other most important scripture when discussing Transgender….

    • JClarke

      You know eunuchs were men whose generative organs had been cut off, right?

      • Bayne MacGregor

        I didn’t invent the Priestesses of Cybele, nor the similar amongst the Scythians, Babylonians, Assyrians and many others. Look them up, it’s all true.

        • Ino Yamanaka

          That degree in women’s studies really paid off.
          Do you enjoy working at Starbucks?

          • Bayne MacGregor

            I never studied that subject and never worked in that store but regardless of that your attempt at a put-down wouldn’t stop what i had said from being the historical facts even if both were true. The facts are the facts no matter who brings them to your attention.

    • Dave Roberts

      Eunochs were castrated so that they could serve in the King’s Harem. There wouldn’t be any danger of any of the wives getting wanderlust, or whatever. They dressed as men because that’s what they were. In no sense were they “transgender”.

      • Bayne MacGregor

        I didn’t invent the Priestesses of Cybele found across the Roman Empire, nor the similar amongst the
        Scythians, Babylonians, Assyrians and many others. Look them up, it’s
        all true.

  • tallorder

    God have mercy on these poor, twisted souls.

    • Kevin Thomas

      God have mercy on all of us as we all have “twisted souls”.

  • Mo86

    How unspeakably vile!

  • First Last

    Bernie’s kibbutz coupled to a working class long hair hippie wearing his Ginsberg dress and sucking Zimmerman opium, living on an afro hippie village, Gone with the Light. Mr Lennin has arrived. 2 years in jail on altar in Moscow with this discordant music?

  • Zebman

    Dr. Brown, you are a true prophetic voice in our time! I follow you closely, and learn a lot! Granted, some things are “too vile to even be mentioned”, according to the apostle, and this case strikes me as being close to that. Still, the flock must be kept informed and alert, which you never fail to do! Thank you very, very much for your faithfulness! God bless you and your house!

  • FC

    Brown goes to the farthest fringe advocates of affirming theology and convinces you this is the norm just to frighten his listeners. The beliefs of those who find no condemnation of homosexuality with the Scriptures goes from mainstream churches (Presbyterian) to mega-Evangelical churches (GracePointe), but you wouldn’t know it from Brown who continues to bear false witness. Brown continues to believe he is the voice to the gay community when in reality he is only the voice to people who believes as he does. He wrote this article to hawk his books and continues to promote himself at the expense of the gay community every chance he gets.

  • Paul Fishman

    ALL this that I am repeating below is a bunch of wives tails and fables the Bible forbids us to entertain, I Timothy 4:7 But refuse profane and old wives’ fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.:

    Queering Christ
    In 2011, in A Queer Thing Happened to America, I documented some of the worst examples of this radical, Christ-defiling theology, including:
    A book entitled The Queer God, described as “a call to ‘disaffiliation’ processes in theology. To be unfaithful to sexual ideological constructions of God in order to liberate God — a Queer God who also needs to come out of the closet of theologians of the status quo.”
    An influential gay theologian who wrote in his book Queering Christ, “Christ was an utterly desirable, bearded hunk, naked on the cross, and I entered the seminary to find union with him and make love with him.”
    This same theologian wrote: “Easter becomes the hope of queer sexual liberation. The queer struggle for sexual liberation will triumph; this is the promise of Easter. … On Easter, God made Jesus queer in his solidarity with us. In other words, Jesus ‘came out of the closet’ and became the ‘queer’ Christ. …”
    A lesbian professor claimed that Jesus was in the midst of two or three who gather together (Matthew 18:20), including two gay men engaged in an anonymous sexual encounter.
    A Jewish lesbian who interpreted God consuming Aaron’s sons Nadab and Abihu with fire as an act of divine, homosexual love.
    A gay Old Testament scholar alleging that when God revealed Himself to Moses on Mount Sinai, it was an erotic, homosexual act.
    Another gay Old Testament scholar claiming that the Trinity represented a gay, sexual threesome.
    Another book with chapter titles like: “Mary, Queer of Heaven and Mother of Faggots” and “Mary the drag queen (or is it Jesus cross-dressing?).”

Inspiration
Lessons From a Stolen Bike
Alex Chediak
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