A Short Primer on Homosexuality and the Bible

By Michael Brown Published on December 9, 2018

Once again, the Christian world is abuzz with controversy over the Bible and homosexual practice, as if this was a difficult or ambiguous subject. To the contrary, the Scriptures are totally clear: homosexual practice is sinful in God’s sight, but it is not the unforgivable sin.

Here’s a brief primer, along with some helpful resources.

A Dozen Quick Facts

1) Every single reference to homosexual practice in the Bible is categorically negative.

2) There is not one positive reference to homosexual practice in the Bible nor one positive example of a homosexual relationship.

3) There is not one single archeological or textual or linguistic discovery that has been made in the last 50 or 100 years that would alter our understanding of the Bible and homosexuality.

4) When Moses condemned homosexual practice, it was not for Israel alone (in contrast, say, with the food laws). Instead, it was unlawful for the Israelites because it was unlawful for all.

5) Although Jesus did not need to clarify his stance on homosexual practice, since it was clearly forbidden by first century Judaism, he addressed it in at least three different ways, reaffirming marriage as the union of one man and one woman for life.

6) Paul stated plainly that male and female homosexual acts were contrary to God’s design in creation.

7) Paul also stated that those who practice homosexuality would not enter the kingdom of God. He also stated that, just as there were former adulterers and fornicators and drunkards, all of whom had been forgiven and cleansed by the blood of Jesus, there were also former practitioners of homosexuality.

8) While the Bible does not directly speak to the question of “sexual orientation” (a relatively new concept), it does tell us that the entire human race is fallen and flawed, in need of a Redeemer. And while the Scriptures do not state that anyone is “born gay,” the Scriptures do tell us that all human beings must be “born again.”

9) Ancient Jewish traditions which may have been known in Jesus’ day claim that one reason God destroyed the world in Noah’s day was because of homosexual marriage.

10) The ancient Greek world in which Paul lived was familiar with long-term homosexual relationships, homosexual “marriages,” and even entertained questions about homosexual desires being innate.

11) Jesus died for homosexual and heterosexual alike, offering forgiveness, redemption, and new life to all.

12) Jesus did not practice affirmational inclusion — meaning, He did not meet sinners where they were and affirm them in their sin. Rather, He practiced transformational inclusion — meaning, He met sinners where they were and transformed them.

Further Resources

For a 6-minute, animated video, laying out most of these points, see here.

For the best academic study of the subject, see here. For a more popular study, emphasizing compassionate outreach, see here.

For helpful reflections by a Christian pastor who struggles with same-sex attractions, see here.

For an in-depth dialogue between an evangelical Christian apologist and a “gay Christian” activist, see here.

For an article supplying relevant cultural information to my short debate with this same “gay Christian” activist, see here.

Help us champion truth, freedom, limited government and human dignity. Support The Stream »

For my answers to 40 questions from this same activist, see here.

For helpful points for Christian parents speaking to their teens, see here.

For a comprehensive, practical volume directed to those struggling with homosexual (and other) desires, see here. For guidance for pastors and counselors, see here.

For testimonies from “ex-gays,” see here.

For a useful website to help those are struggling with their sexuality to connect with Christian ministries, see here.

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  • Andy6M

    Good article. Cue the dissent…

  • Trilemma

    2) There is not one positive reference to homosexual practice in the
    Bible nor one positive example of a homosexual relationship.

    What about the relationship between Jonathan and David. The story of Jonathan and David certainly sounds like a homosexual relationship. How many heterosexual men would publicly say they loved a man more than their wife?

    • Jim Walker

      David and Jonathan made a covenant to be ready to sacrifice their lives for one another. This is the agape love that you want to corrupt and use just this verse loosely to Ok an abomination.

      • kenneth20754

        This kind of tight brotherly love occurs commonly in military situations throughout human history. Men bond under the shared experiences of deprivation and threat to life and limb. It is highly eisegetical for T to read back homoerotic insinuations of which the text itself and its context are devoid.

        • Trilemma

          Have you ever heard one of these military men publicly confess to loving a man more than his wife?

          • kenneth20754

            It’s a different kind of love, born of an intense shared experience, a unique bonding that cannot form in the same way even with one’s wife and the mother of one’s children. And this was an ancient ME culture, with different forms of expression than those we are used to today. If you look outside the West today you will easily find manifestations of male friendship affection that seem strange to us but are perfectly natural–and platonic–to them.

          • Trilemma

            Okay. You say this bond born of an intense shared experience is different from the bond between a man and a woman then why would David compare the two? A man’s love for a woman has a sexual aspect. Yet David compared his love for Jonathan to a man’s love for a woman rather than a love born of an intense experience.

          • kenneth20754

            Was it a comparison or a contrast? And what do you know of ancient Hebrew forms of rhetoric and argument? Do you take these into consideration when interpreting the text?

          • Trilemma

            David was comparing the love while contrasting the intensity.

          • kenneth20754

            You’re being argumentative and avoiding important questions I have raised about your handling of the text. I have no sense this exchange is going anywhere so I am moving on. As Jim said above, this objection has been raised before and answered well; there are resources available that you may profitably take advantage of, provided you use discretion.

          • Trilemma

            The text must stand by itself. If the culture that created the Bible needs to be understood to understand the Bible then the Bible is the creation of a human culture and not the creation of God.

          • kenneth20754

            Writing statements such as “the text must stand by itself” demonstrate that you really don’t know what you’re talking about. Ever heard of the grammatico-historical method? The first rule of hermeneutics is that a text without a context is a pretext–you have to know the environment of the text before you can interpret it. This is what creates such problems with the practice of prooftexting–people take a verse or a phrase in isolation and attempt to use it to support their (predetermined) position. You seem to forget that God did not provide his word in isolation. He spoke through people of the time and place in language that could be understood by people of the time and place; otherwise, the prophet would be talking gibberish. Idioms and proverbs are a perfect example of this. If you were to take a common idiom in English and translate it word for word into Cantonese, chances are very high you would not communicate the meaning accurately. Wooden literalism falls into this trap.

          • Trilemma

            Is the Bible literature or is it timeless objective truth inspired by God? If it’s just literature, then I agree that it should be understood in relation to the people of the time and place and in language that could be understood by people of the time and place. But it it’s timeless objective truth for all peoples of all times then it shouldn’t take a PhD in ancient history to understand what it’s saying.

        • Bezukhov

          Like the Sacred Band of Thebes.

      • Trilemma

        So they made a covenant years before David made his profession of love, David still said he loved Jonathan more than his wives.

        • Jim Walker

          This sole verse that you interpret can wipe out all other verses condemning homosexuality.

          • Trilemma

            The handful of verses you’re talking about aren’t condemning homosexual relationships.

          • Jim

            Read Leviticus 18 and 22. Both clearly state that it is an abomination for a man to have sex with another man. Romans 1 condemns it. Paul tells the Corinthians that homosexuals cannot enter into Heaven. Pretty condemning if you ask anyone without a bias.

          • Trilemma

            Romans 1:26-27 does not condemn homosexual relationships. It condemns sexual activity in association with idolatry. Corinthians condemns boys who prostitute themselves and the men who bed them. It takes bias to read homosexual relationship into those verses.

          • kenneth20754

            It takes intellectual dishonesty and the desire to force the biblical texts to fit a predetermined mold of your own making to explain away the clear teaching of Scripture. Face it, T. You want homosexuality to be perfectly okay. You don’t really care what God has to say; you just want to neuter Christian appeals to the revealed and authoritative word of God that would otherwise defeat your wishes. You prefer your way to God’s way. In essence, you don’t want God to be God. You want to be God so you can call the shots for yourself.

          • Trilemma

            I agree that it takes intellectual dishonesty to force the biblical
            texts to fit a predetermined mold of one’s own making to explain away the
            clear teaching of Scripture. Yet Christians have been doing just that for nearly 2000 years.

          • Jim Walker

            Give me one.

          • Trilemma

            Romans 1:26-27 does not condemn homosexual relationships. It condemns sexual activity in association with idolatry.

          • Jim Walker

            Let us read 1 verse before that :Romans 1:25-27

            25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

            26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

            Verse 25 does not say sex within worship of idols is an abomination.

            1. If you are not a true believer of God the Creator, you are serving satan and in his domain.
            2. It is so immature you can even understand that having Unnatural consensual sex in private and in “worship of idols” can be of difference to our God, because both are sinning against their own bodies. (1 Cor 6:18)

          • Trilemma

            When Paul wrote Romans, idolatry involved a lot of sexual immorality. If people left God to worship idols, and God gives them over to sexual immorality, the most logical conclusion is that God gave them over to the sexual immorality involved in idolatry. It’s very unlikely that Paul would talk about people leaving God in verse 25 and then go off and talk about homosexual relationships separate from idolatry in verses 26 and 27 and then come back to talking about people leaving God in verse 28.

          • Jim Walker

            A simple logic: You rob a bank and you rob a stranger in public, you are still committing a crime.

          • Trilemma

            A better logic: You have sex with a bunch of strangers at church or you have sex with your spouse at home, you are still having sex.

      • Jim

        Trilemma has a vested interest in justifying himself and will go to any length to twist scripture to his feelings.

        • kenneth20754

          It’s a tactic as old as Genesis 3:1.

    • Jim

      It only sounds like a homosexual relationship if you read your feelings into tbe text and refuse to actually research history. This has been dealt with already. Learn to Google.

      • Trilemma

        What history would make this not look like a homosexual relationship?

        • Jim

          Any history not twisted by your lack of reading skills. Marriages were often social arrangements for political, social or financial purposes, not generally love as we think of them today. It was not uncommon for two men to be closer than a husband and wife without reading homosexuality into the text.

          • Trilemma

            So, your argument is that men back then didn’t live their wives like men do today. Marriages for political, social or financial purposes were done by rich people. Regular people married for other reasons. Was the marriage between Mary and Joseph for political, social or financial purposes?

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          There ya go Dena, Jim, & others! THAT is Trilemma at his finest. THAT is his modus operandi to bait folks into long drawn out discussions that go NOWHERE because he’s not interested in the Truth but does love to feed his Flesh and Ego.

    • Dena

      Do you love Jesus? If you did, you wouldn’t continue to make excuses to sin.

      • Royce E. Van Blaricome

        No, he doesn’t. He repeatedly rejects Christ & His Word on here. Just a habitual troll that loves to try and bait folks into feeding his flesh with human and worldly wisdom and vain philosophies.

  • Brand New Key

    Even the ancient Greeks knew that homosexuality was wrong. The philosopher Plato, who lived several centuries before Christ, said that homosexuality was para phusin, meaning “unnatural.” As it happens, Paul used the same phrase in Romans 1. While it’s true that the Greeks were more tolerant of homosexuality than Christians were, they knew it was abnormal, and they had a very low opinion of men who only had sex with other males. There is nothing uniquely “Christian” about believing homosexuality is wrong.

    • Trilemma

      For as long as there have been people who are homosexual there have always been people who are homophobic. Just because ancient people were homophobic out of ignorance of homosexuality doesn’t mean we have to be today.

      • Jim

        Disagreemnt is not homophobia.

        • Trilemma

          Violently attacking someone because they are homosexual is not simply disagreement. It’s homophobic. Discriminating against someone in the marketplace because they are homosexual is not simply disagreement. It’s homophobic.

      • Brand New Key

        There is no “ignorance of homosexuality” – not in ancient times, and not today. The average American third-grader knows exactly what gαys and lesbians do. I’m pretty sure Plato and the apostle Paul did too. The body parts are just the same today as they were in ancient times. These people are as depraved and unnatural as they were 2000 years ago.

        • Trilemma

          Today we have more understanding of why people are homosexual and therefore less reason to think of them as depraved.

  • David MacKenzie

    When, in Matthew 11, Jesus implies that HAD he taught in Sodom, it would have “remained until this day”, we get an indirect reference for the need for Sodom to have repented. This is seldom mentioned among radical sexual progressives.

    • Trilemma

      What is seldom mentioned by those who condemn homosexuality is that Sodom was not destroyed because of homosexuality.

      • Jim

        That don’t wash. Read Genesis. It doesn’t mention inhospitable behavior, it does mention homosexuals who want to rape Lot’s guests. There is another book that is not Bible,but it contains the history behind the destruction of Sodom. The judges of the five cities of the plain had made rulings that it was perfectly acceptable to rape or sodomize strangers, even in the middle of the street and the victims had no legal recourse. That is the perversion of justice and inhospitable behavior spoken of by the prophet.

        • Trilemma

          Genesis does not say the men who wanted to rape Lot’s guests were homosexual. It’s not uncommon for heterosexual men to rape other men as a form of humiliation. Rape is sexually immoral regardless who the victim is. Based on what you just wrote, Sodom was destroyed because of rape and not homosexuality.

          • Jim

            Feed the unicorns in your alternate reality. There is not one place where the Bible speaks of homosexuality in anything but condemning terms. You lose. Argue your case with God on judgment day.

          • Trilemma

            The relationship between David and Jonathan is not spoken of in condemning terms except by by Jonathan’s father, Saul

      • David MacKenzie

        Trilemma, you may quote Ezekiel on the issue of pride, etc., but make sure in the same breath you also quote Jude and II Peter, who would disagree vehemently with your analysis.

        • Trilemma

          Neither Jude nor 2Peter mention homosexuality. They both mention sexual immorality. Men raping men or angels that look like men is sexual immorality but it is not homosexuality. A man raping a man is not a homosexual relationship.

          • David MacKenzie

            “Porneia” likely includes homosexuality. Nevertheless, your response is typical of a generation that considers “consent” as a preeminent justification over the “nature” of a sexual act. It’s preposterous revisionism. If consent were all that mattered, then adultery and fornication would be meaningless, and neither Leviticus 18:22 nor Romans 1:18-25 would have been written.

          • Trilemma

            Porneia would certainly include homosexual adultery, homosexual prostitution and homosexual rape. Any sexual act done without consent is rape. Unfortunately, Christians have been reluctant to accept that. Marital rape in the United States was legal until the late 1970’s when states started to make it illegal. Rape in the Old Testament was not condemned if the woman was not the property of another man.

          • David MacKenzie

            That is terrible analysis. If rape was not condemned, then why is it that laws of Moses made a distinction between cases in country and city— and not on the basis of “property”? And if consensual homosexuality is so righteous, then why the need for Leviticus 18:22 at all? Your analysis is attempting all manner of moral and textual calisthenics in order to get out from under Biblical judgement. That, alone, should tell you something.

          • kenneth20754

            “That is terrible analysis.”

            Heh. Welcome to Trilemma’s world, sir!

          • Trilemma

            If a man rapes a betrothed or married woman then he is executed for adultery. Whether or not the woman is executed depends on where the rape occurred, country or city. If a man rapes an unbetrothed woman who still belongs to her father then the matter is settled as property. Other rapes such as conquest rape have no consequences.

            Both Leviticus 18:22 and 1Corinthians 6:9 condemn boys who prostitute themselves and the men who bed them.

          • David MacKenzie

            The only people who believe this kind of analysis tend to be self-justifying sexual radicals, themselves.

          • Jim

            Yet Paul condemns homosexuality as sin that keeps you from entering Heaven. Not homosexual rape. Homosexuality period. He even goes so far as to use specific Greek words that refer to both parties which would be readily known to his audience. No points for you again.

          • Trilemma

            1Corinthians 6:9 uses the word “malakoi” which means catamite or boy prostitute. That word is followed by the word “arsenokoitai” which means male bed. Of all the interpretations I’ve read, the best is that it’s condemning boys who prostitute themselves and the men who bed them.

  • azsxdcf1

    Thank you Dr Brown for your continued spreading of knowledge and Truth about the topic of homosexuality. You have authored many books on the topic, and have established yourself as a loving, truthful, Christian teacher for those shackled in that bondage.

  • kinderman

    Michael, you’re positively obsessed with homosexuality, aren’t you? I’m not going to be cliche and imply this is because you are homosexual yourself. But I am going to say it’s probably because you see gay men and change from traditional gender roles as a threat to your masculinity and the power you think masculinity gives you. You value your sense of being “a real man” over actually be a good person and doing good to others. You’ve never done any real good in your life. You’ve wasted your life being angry at people for being gay. You’re a pathetic joke.

    • kenneth20754

      Hanging out your armchair psychologist’s shingle, are you? If so, it would help you to brush up on your reading skills. Dr. Brown provides the motive for this post in its opening sentences.

      You’ve presented no serious argument. It’s all ad hominem.

      • kinderman

        Why dignify his “arguments” with a response? All he does is appeal to tradition, which isn’t a real argument. I don’t speak ill of him as a form of argument, but because he’s a bad man.

        • Dena

          If you believed Hell was a real place, wouldn’t you want to warn all the people you care about? Jesus talked about Hell more than anyone, because he loved people and wanted to warn them so they wouldn’t have to go there. He preached on the repentance of sins. We have a choice. Follow Jesus and repent of of our sins and gain eternal life or follow our own way and sin all we want too. The consequences of which is eternal punishment in Hell.

          • kinderman

            Even if he believes he’s saving people from hell, his true motivation is personal disgust at homosexuality. The only person he really cares about is himself. He isn’t bothered in the slightest by Trump cheating on his (third) wife with a Playboy model and porn star and thinks Trump’s immorality is fine so long as we get anti-gay policy as a result. That says everything about Brown. He also is a con man. He recently published a “book” rationalizing Trump’s immorality, for example. It’s really just a collection of articles he published online that are freely available online. He constantly links to amazon in his posts, trying to get you to buy things you could read for free. But because Brown is straight, I guess he can cheat people and worship vile politicians all he wants and not go to hell. If you’re straight and averse to all gayness, you’re the picture of perfect goodness no matter what. So says Christian “morality.”

          • Jim

            You live in a rubber room with tound walls, don’t you. You are so far out of touch with reality.

          • kinderman

            You define reality based on not what is reality, but what you’re convinced reality should be. Noticed my last comment to you got removed, by the way, likely because it didn’t fit your reality. Only “some” of the scribes commended Jesus’s condemnation of marriage in Luke 20:27-40, and it is “FOR” (because) “they no longer dared to ask him another question,” so says the correctly translated NRSV, not the NIV or similar. As such, it appears they didn’t genuinely agree with him, but only agreed because they didn’t want to talk to him any longer. And his statement that those who marry are not worthy of the resurrection is still there. It’s not going away. Thus refuting all your arguments about that passage. Also, you still stereotype gays as disease-ridden and like drunks and imply their relationships are all unmerited and wrong, which isn’t in accordance with reality either, but rather your assumptions and opinions. If you had to put me in a rubber room to feel good about yourself, so be it. Better a rubber room where reality reigns than a church where lies are king.

          • Jim

            You are the one who can’t just accept that your lifestyle is incompatible with biblical Christianity. Reality is reality. I don’t have my own personal reality like you think you do.

          • kinderman

            Go to hell

          • Jim Walker

            But you don’t believe there is such a place…

          • kinderman

            I do, actually. And I believe you’re going there.

          • Jim

            And I know that your beliefs are irrelevant since they are based on a very active fantasy life.

          • Dena

            The underlying issue is that you are trying to justify sin. You are convicted and do not like anyone telling you that living a homosexual lifestyle is sin and that Jesus does not condone that lifestyle.

            It’s not mean to tell the truth. However, it’s painful to hear it sometimes if you are unwilling to let go of your lifestyle. But Jesus can help you and set you free. I have a cousin who left the lesbian lifestyle and she is so happy now. She’s free! It’s not impossible.

          • kinderman

            Dena, shut up, woman (1 Timothy 2:12).

        • kenneth20754

          On what basis do you conclude that Dr. Brown is “a bad man”? And it is untrue that “all he does is appeal to tradition.” This article contains several statements of fact concerning biblical content and what is known through other sources about the societies contemporary to the original writing of the books of the Bible.

          • kinderman

            Well, he’s deeply prejudiced against gays, for one. He frequently misrepresents them and makes them into grotesque caricatures to feed his fantasy of superiority over them. Anyone who stereotypes gays and misrepresents gays and detests gays and refuses to judge gays as individuals is a bad person. I don’t care if they feel justified by religion. How else is he a bad man? Well, he tries to steal peoples’ money. He recently published a “book” full of articles he published on the internet (“Donald Trump is not my savior”). He’s charging people for something they could read for free. He also frequently writes things on the internet and instead of giving you the full story/details, he directs you to Amazon to buy his garbage books.

            He does indeed appeal to tradition in all of his arguments against homosexuality. I don’t care if he includes “statements of fact concerning biblical content” here. I don’t care how much Bible writers or people contemporary to Bible writers hated homosexuality. Appealing to these ancient people is argumentum ad antiquitatem. That’s not a real or good argument against homosexuality. “The Bible tells me so” is not an argument, no matter if you believe it’s authoritative. So, he and you and all the others might as well say, “I’m depending on my feelings and opinions and preconceived beliefs and traditions, not facts and not real-world experience.”

          • kenneth20754

            Noting the repetitive use of “I don’t care,” I can see this is an unprofitable conversation and will move on.

            By the way, shame on swordfish for the upvote. I’m surprised to see you so in favor of emotionality.

          • kinderman

            Move on, then. There’s nothing more annoying than when religious people accuse you of mere “emotionality.” As if they don’t know religion itself is wholly emotional.

          • kenneth20754

            “Wholly emotional.” Hmm, thanks for the heads-up. I’ll make note of that the next time I read Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, Calvin, Edwards, Plantinga, Lewis, or Chesterton.

          • kinderman

            Oh, did I say “wholly emotional.” I should have said “emotional” and “based on pseudo-intellectualism and flawed, bad, or fallacious logic.”

          • kenneth20754

            Ow. Bet that self-inflicted foot wound hurts, kinderman.

          • Jim

            No, there’s nothong more annoying than you twisting scripture. You don’t have a clue, no credentials, and yet you insist on breaking the rules of biblical interpretation. The person you need to be arguing with is God. You don’t like His rules, so you make a nuisance of yourself by trying to convince people who actually stidy the text for a living like myself that your wishanomics just change the clear meaning of the text. You aren’t changing anyone’s mind. Go find a place to peddle your silliness where you can find the affirmation that you seem to require.

          • kinderman

            Go. To. Hell.

          • Jim

            Sorry to disappoint you but I don’t argue with God. I accepted his terms and now I am going to heaven. Thank you, however, for displaying your lack of actual love and showing your true colors. Buh bye.

          • kinderman

            Bye to you too. I hate someone as insane as you exists.

          • Jim

            I’m not the one telling the world that they are wrong. If you don’t like the rules of Christianity, go find a religion you do like. You’re not changing our faith. You are the ones full of hate.

          • kinderman

            If the rules of Christianity are you must believe what is obviously untrue (such as Bible verses never contradicting each other) and must believe and uphold harmful stereotypes, then I don’t like Christianty, as had been clear. Look, I’m sorry I told you to go to hell. But you are very frustrating. I should never have provoked you people in the first place. It was foolish of me. It’s clear I can’t change you. Too bad. But I hold that you are still completely irrational. Hold the same view of me if you must. Anything to end this.

    • Dena

      Jesus warned all people that sin seperates you from God. If we deliberately practice sin we do not know God and will not have eternal life.

      “Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins. There is only the terrible expectation of God’s judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies. For anyone who refused to obey the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God’s mercy to us.”
      ‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:26-29‬ ‭NLT‬‬

    • Jim Walker

      Actually he is doing the right thing. Hussein is the devil’s advocate that opened the Pandora’s box.
      From here on, morality no longer has boundaries. The meaning of marriage IS between a man and a woman, just like the word Purple comes from blue and red. You can’t change the meaning of the word to suit your feelings.
      I can’t even sense an anger from Dr Brown on gay community.

      • kinderman

        Go to hell

        • Jim Walker

          Now aren’t you doing the same stuff that you accused Dr Brown ? The pot call the kettle black ? I see so much hate from you in just 1 article. where is your love for people like us ? Love is Love right ?
          Show it.

          • kinderman

            I show love only to those who deserve it.

          • Jim Walker

            That is not love.
            FYI Love is.
            Philia
            Storge
            Eros
            Agape
            We cannot stop loving anyone as Love encompass all the 4 kinds of Love of the human race.

            Love also requires discipline. That is what Dr Brown is doing to educate all of us of the dangers to play along the secular kind of love the gay community is dispensing/promoting.

  • NewcastleB

    If this is an answer to Christians who claim homosexuality is affirmed and or not condemned by the Bible then this is is important to read and know.

    However, as Christians we need to remember that a person’s “lifestyle” isn’t going to keep him from heaven. The only thing that will keep secular people from heaven is that they’re secular. So, as Christians, we shouldn’t care what anyone’s lifestyle is we should care about what their spiritual life is. As Christians we conform to Christian moral teaching by choice. Secular people have no reason nor should we expect them to conform with Christian morality.

    • kenneth20754

      Should we not warn them of God’s law? It is, after all, the standard to which they will be held accountable. It is appointed unto men and women once to die, and then the judgment.

      • NewcastleB

        But we don’t get into heaven by obeying God’s law. We get into heaven by accepting God’s grace.

        • kenneth20754

          Indeed. But we certainly go to hell based on our disobedience of God’s law.

          Imparting the bad news is an important part of presenting the good news. A man needs to be convicted of his helplessness and need for a savior.

          • NewcastleB

            No, we don’t go to heaven because we don’t accept God’s grace.

            We’re all sinners. We were sinners before we were saved, when we were saved and we remain sinners even after we are saved. Sin doesn’t keep us from heaven.

          • kenneth20754

            So what becomes of those who refuse God’s grace? And what is sin except transgression of or want of conformity to God’s commands?

          • NewcastleB

            God gives us the free will to either accept his grace or reject it. Those who reject it are given the freedom to live out their eternity without God.

          • kenneth20754

            Upon what basis does a just, righteous, and holy God separate himself from those exercising their freedom to live out their eternity without him?

          • NewcastleB

            Aren’t you answering your own question? God isn’t separating from them. They’re the ones’ making the choice to separate from him. Shouldn’t he honor the choices we each make.

          • kenneth20754

            No, I don’t think I’m answering my own question. I think you’re dancing around the clear biblical statements regarding the radical fallenness of man and what Christ has accomplished on the behalf of sinners who are powerless to save themselves, being dead in trespasses and sin. The wages–the just desert–of sin is death; life comes by the gift of God in Christ Jesus.

            Look at Romans 8:1-17. Paul, in straightforward fashion, distinguishes between the state of condemnation of sin in the sinner and the deliverance to be had in Christ. who alone is righteous.

          • NewcastleB

            I’ve said nothing that contradicts what you’ve said above. I believe in the radical fallenness of man and what Christ has accomplished on the behalf of sinners who are powerless to save themselves, And what you call “what Christ has accomplished on the behalf of sinners who are powerless to save themselves” is God’s grace.

            All I’ve said is that people are free to accept or reject that grace. And that if they do reject it, God will not force those people to spend eternity with him.

          • kenneth20754

            All well and good, and thanks for those affirmations. But you seem to be reluctant to spell out why it is that God’s grace is needed in the first place in order to allow a (redeemed) sinner an eternity spent with him.

          • NewcastleB

            Sin comes in all forms. One is no different than another. For Christians to focus on homosexuality as “sinful” diminishes the idea that we are all sinners and all in need of his grace.

          • kenneth20754

            That we are all sinners and in need of God’s grace is past dispute, at least from me. And, although I would qualify it in that there are degrees of sinfulness (to sin less is better than to sin more, and to sin through anger is better than to sin through murder, although as our Lord taught in the eyes of God these things are all wicked) just as there are degrees of rewards, sin is sin and in the end amounts to much the same thing. But I think we take the wrong intent of an article such as this. Why is it that Dr. Brown has written–books as well as “Stream” articles–on the subject of homosexuality? If you read his writing, it is not because homosexuality is some especially grievous sin or that we should narrowly focus on it to the exclusion of all else. It is rather that in the current culture there is an active campaign to excuse, even to affirm homosexuality, to gain the acceptance and approval of behavior that Christians know God considers sinful. If we remain silent in the face of such, are we not abrogating our responsibility to be witnesses for God’s truth and to tell those who want to celebrate homosexuality (or anything else outside of God’s commandments–fill in the blank) that it is of no consequence, that God cares not what they do so long as they accept his grace? And what does accepting God’s grace mean apart from repentance and putting to death the old man of sin?

          • NewcastleB

            I get that but the problem is that pointing fingers and people and calling them sinners isn’t a very good way to express to them God’s love and your love for them. Instead it sounds a lot like “you’re a sinner and I’m not”. And you can be sure that’s the way they hear that. It’s just bad tactics (and not loving) no matter it’s validity. We’ve called to spread the good news not to moralize to people.

          • kenneth20754

            If all we’re doing is moralizing, I concur. Salvation is not found through trying harder to obey the law of God. That’s an impossible task, which is Paul’s point in Galatians. And if our hearers hear self-righteousness, that is wrong.

            If someone is on a path of self-destruction, if continuing in the way she is going will lead to an awful outcome, what is the loving thing to do? I know that ultimately it is not up to me to convict anyone of his sinfulness and need of a savior. Only the Spirit of God has the power to put life into a heart of stone and make it a living thing. But there is a prophetic role for the faithful Christian, a call to proclaim a reminder to individuals and to society that God is real, he is holy, and he punishes sin and rebellion. And although he is long-suffering, his patience does have an end.

          • NewcastleB

            “If someone is on a path of self-destruction, if continuing in the way she is going will lead to an awful outcome, what is the loving thing to do? ”

            We all are (or were) on a path of self-destruction. And yes, we do have a role to play in God’s plan and it’s probably different, in some way, for every person we meet. We have to work that out with fear and trembling.

            One way I’ve been told is to make people “jealous” of our faith. Do you know the story of the padre and the soldier. There was a enemy soldier lying wounded in the field and the padre came to him and built him a shelter and bound his wounds and brought him food and nursed him to health. He continued this day after day, week after week until the soldier was healed. When the soldier was well enough to leave he asked the padre, “Did you do all this because you are a Christian?” The padre said “Yes.” The soldier said, “Then I want to be a Christian, too.” He was jealous of the padre’s kindness and humility. No preaching, no admonitions, he just loved him and changed his soul.

          • kenneth20754

            There can be no discounting the power of a Christ-like life, of a genuine demonstration of the love of Christ. But I don’t see the matter as either/or.

            The ordinary means by which God brings his people to himself is the preached word. Paul spells this out in Romans 10 in the passage I call the “golden chain of evangelism.” He works backwards in a series of rhetorical questions to get from people calling on the name of the Lord ultimately to sent preachers. And then in verse 17 he concludes, “Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.” So by all means do the works of love prepared ahead of time for us to do; just don’t neglect the give people the words of life.

          • NewcastleB

            No, not an either/or. However, it seems what Paul describes is the role of a trained preacher. And that’s how I came to Christ. But I’m not that so I have to find some other way to serve.

          • Jim Walker

            So you are a PC Christian. How would you tell the homosexuals that what they are doing is an abomination?

          • NewcastleB

            So, is their sin somehow worse than yours or mine or anyone else’s? It isn’t. God doesn’t differentiate between sins. All sin is an abomination to God. Yours, mine, everyone’s.

            Their only way to salvation is through Christ. And if they do choose Christ it won’t matter what their sins were and if they don’t it won’t matter what their sins are. Sin doesn’t keep us from heaven. If it did no one would be there.

            Our responsibility as Christians under the Great Commisson is to tell them about Christ not moralize to them about their lifestyle.

          • Jim Walker

            Dwelling in sin and thinking that God will understand their lifestyle won’t give them a free pass to eternal life.

            Believing in God is to surrender totally to Him. We have to break free from all sins with God’s help.
            Homosexuality or sex outside of marriage sin against your own body. (1 Cor 6:18)

            Our responsibility as Christians is to tell them about Jesus only ?
            What about teaching them what is right and wrong ?
            2 Tim 3:16
            If you love your kids, and seeing them doing wrong, do you tell/correct/teach them ? is this considered “moralize to them about their wrongdoings” ?

          • NewcastleB

            “Dwelling in sin and thinking that God will understand their lifestyle won’t give them a free pass to eternal life.”

            I never said or implied anything like this.

            And yes sex, outside of marriage is a sin just like the ones you and I and every other Christian in the world committed today. We don’t accept Jesus nor does Jesus accept us because we are morally pure. We accept Jesus and Jesus accepts us because we have accepted his grace while we are sinners. Defeating sin in our lives comes after accepting Jesus.

            Will teaching people right and wrong get people to heaven? No. It won’t. Only believing in Christ will get people to heaven. Are people who don’t accept Christianity or Christian teachings bound by Christian moral rules. No. They’re not. We obey Christian moral rules voluntarily as an offering of thanks to God for the grace he bestowed on us.

            Ask yourself this. Is the most moral person in the world going to heaven if he doesn’t accept Christ as his Lord and savior.

            (And BTW, we were not talking about raising children. Parental responsibilities are different than our role and responsibilities to non believers.)

          • Jim Walker

            Will teaching people right and wrong get people to heaven? No. It won’t. Only believing in Christ will get people to heaven.

            So believing Christ will bring us to heaven. Even the demons believe.
            Why do we go to church then ? Scriptures are to be used to rebuke reproof and teaching.
            Everyone of us are “work-in-progress”. We strive to be free from sin with God’s help. If we don’t get to know the scriptures how are we to know what is right and wrong ?
            Yes, we will fail to be “sinless” but with God’s help we can. Eventually we are all saved by Grace.
            Your beliefs will confuse many people that just accepting is enough and God’s work is done and no matter how much you sin (Because of your weakness) God only see Jesus in you is a very dangerous and wrong thing to tell.

            Parental responsibilities are the same responsibilities when it comes down to right and wrong. You mean you won’t advice your friend to stop his affair since he too believed in Jesus ?

          • NewcastleB

            This pretty simple stuff Jim.

            The people that go to heaven are the people that accept Jesus as their Lord and savior.

            The sinfulness of people isn’t what prevents them from getting into heaven. We’re all sinners and were saved by grace while we were still sinners. Not accepting Jesus Christ is the only thing that keeps us from going to heaven. The work of riding ourselves from our sinful desires (as much as we can) is a result of our salvation not a condition of it.

            We’re instructed in the Bible to spread the good news of Jesus Christ not moralize to people about their lifestyle.

            And if you really know your Bible Jim, you know that Jesus warned and preached against self righteousness, pride, moralizing and religiosity far more than he preached against sin in general and certainly sexual sin. Did you not pick up on that?

          • Jim Walker

            “The people that go to heaven are the people that accept Jesus as their Lord and savior.”
            Jim: Not without renouncing and repent of the grievous sin of homosexuality.
            Question – Can a person continues murder goes to heaven without repentance ? If you answer yes, you are reading the ghostpel.

          • NewcastleB

            “They also need to sin no more….“

            Oh, really Jim? You don’t sin any more. So, you’re sinless. Tell us all about that Jim. Tell us that you don’t sin anymore.

            Jim, You reek of self righteous pride. You care about nothing but moralizing as anyone reading your posts already knows.

          • Jim Walker

            Firstly, you need to acknowledge that you have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
            For LGBTQ, they need to stop their lifestyles and commit their lives to God. Slowly by walking with God they will stop sinning.
            Just like an alcoholic, stop drinking.
            A pedophile, a drug addict etc.
            We can stop sinning but our sinful flesh bodies will continue to be tempted by its nature and by the devil but with God’s help and as our faith in Him grow, we can overcome the temptation to sin.
            I used to look at women with lists eyes. Now I don’t. It’s not my strength but with God, nothing is impossible.

          • NewcastleB

            You’ve continually construed my statement without including all of what I said. I get that it tweeks your self righteous pride to be told that your moralizing isn’t part of God’s plan but the dishonesty that you’ve shown in ignoring what I actually said is just sad. I never said or implied people didn’t need to repent of their sins. Nor did I ever say or imply that people wouldn’t need to change their lifestyles.

            Repentance before accepting God’s grace and salvation is really “repentance”. That’s because without the Holy Spirit to show us and convict us of our sins it’s just a word. It’s the Holy Spirit that convicts us and shows us the truth about our sinfulness. And a change in lifestyles is similarly the work of the Holy Spirit.

            And Jim come on Jim. When are you going to address the points you made. Since you believe that people who are saved must “sin no more” just when are you going to tell us all about your sinless life. Those are your words and unlike you I didn’t take them out of context or ignore other things you said.

          • Jim Walker

            You agree that everyone need repentance. That’s good.
            However, not everyone gets to know what is right or wrong. They don’t get an update software the moment they receive Jesus.
            Tell me how can anyone be corrected if everything we inform or teach them becomes “moralizing”?
            Question : Will you advice your good friend to stop his bisexual relationships ? If you do, are you moralizing him ? Will he still go to heaven unrepented ?
            I have no sinless life, far from it. I just want to more of Jesus and less of myself to be in control of my life.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Yes, he does. And yes, it’s scary. But trust me when I tell you that if you spend much time on here, FB, Twitter, and other social media/online forums you’ll find a LOT more of them traveling the Wide & Easy Road to Destruction and standing in the Matt. 7:21-23 line waiting to hear Jesus speak than there are those of us on the Narrow Path.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            “This pretty simple stuff Jim.”

            THAT right there shows your heart and I saw it before but that’s as CLEAR as crystal. You couldn’t be anymore arrogant and unteachable if you tried. And I’ll waste NO more time and effort on you nor cast anymore pearls before you once I finish this post.

            “The people that go to heaven are the people that accept Jesus as their Lord and savior.”

            WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU nor anyone else goes to Heaven because YOU accept the King. Everyone goes to Heaven because the KING accepts them!!!!!

            Should you be able to find any humility in you at all and any kind of a teachable spirit, I’m more than happy to send you a sermon series that can teach you the Truth. But YOU MUST be willing to leave your lies,

            “And if you really know your Bible Jim,”

            LOL Talk about a Giant Sequoia Tree sticking outta your eye socket!! YOU have NO clue what Scripture says. What Jim has been giving you IS actually what the Bible says. The rest of you blather is just more lies and you’re simply showing YOUR Biblical ignorance.

            Now, before I shake the dust from my feet as a sign unto, I’ll hold off ONE time just to see how you respond. Thus far it’s pretty apparent from your own words and definition of the Gospel that you aren’t even a Christian. So, if you’d like to surrender your life as a slave to the Lord Jesus Christ as your new Master instead of being a slave to Self, Sin, & Satan, I’m more than happy to introduce you to the real Jesus.

          • NewcastleB

            Is that the best you can do. Take my statement totally out of context? “The people that go to heaven are the people that accept Jesus as their Lord and savior.” is common Christian parlance for the “process” of becoming a Christian. We weren’t discussing predestination, unconditional election or irresistible grace. Quite the contribution there Royce. Thanks for dropping by.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Oh no. I can do much better! As I did in all my other replies to you. Now, do tell us, EXACTLY how did I take your comments out of context? PLEASE DO tell us all how you tell someone “This pretty simple stuff Jim” AFTER he specifically gave you the truth of God’s Word. Even citing Scriptures to you!! Something you’ve NOT done one time!!

            “is common Christian parlance for the “process” of becoming a Christian”

            Yes, quite “common” for those who profess to be a Christian and are not only Biblically ignorant with NO sound Soteriological beliefs at all but are in all probability Posers on the Wide & Easy Road to Destruction because their false Jesus idol doesn’t save anyone. It’s MOST DEFINITELY NOT the “common parlance” that Jesus used.

            No, we weren’t talking Predestination, Unconditional Election, or Irresistible Grace and I wasn’t referring to any of those either. And they really don’t have anything to do with the “process” on how one becomes a Christian. So, it now sounds like you are trying to walk your statements back. So let’s do discuss the “process”. How EXACTLY does one become a Christian? What is the “process”?

            “Quite the contribution there Royce. Thanks for dropping by.”

            Thank you and you’e welcome. Is that the best you can do?

          • NewcastleB

            Again, more out of context statements. If you want to actually make a contribution try staying on topic., But is not likely you really do. You like Jim are all worked up that anyone would dare criticize your self righteous moralizing. That’s what really bugs you isn’t it Royce.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Again, more denial on your part, Your inability to comprehend my statements in NO way detract from or negate them. One would think that someone could recognize that they’re aren’t taking things outta context when they actually quote what they are replying to, Just as your continued arrogance & pride doesn’t negate the contributions I made. No more than another Unbeliever rejects Christ’s contribution. It doesn’t negate or detract from Christ’s contribution one iota,

            I absolutely did directly address the topic, And when one can’t directly address the truth’s that another brings they do EXACTLY what you do. Take it to personal attacks because they have NOTHING from Scripture to refute the truths they were given OR support their lies. Now run on back to your daddy, Satan, and tell him to fill your quiver with more flaming arrows to fling because those fell WAY short.

            This is why I say, folks, just let ’em talk! Just let ’em talk!! They ALWAYS reveal their heart. And, as if it weren’t already clear, let’s watch him make himself an abomination and show more of his heart (Matt. 15:18)

            “You like Jim are all worked up that anyone would dare criticize your self righteous moralizing. ”

            It never takes long before they expose their self-imposed god-complex with their faux-omniscience which is followed shortly thereafter with their false accusations & bearing false witness. Since this stiffnecked, false teaching, arrogant, prideful Poser wants to continue to tout “context” let’s see what God has to say about those who make false accusations & bear false witness. I’ll stat the next comment with it so this one isnt too long…

          • NewcastleB

            You’ve yet to address the topic at hand. You’re good at using a lot of words to conceal that. (And copy and pasting a quote doesn’t mean you addressed the topic). And the self righteousness and childish name calling in all your blathering couldn’t be more obvious.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            ^^^^^ GIANT SEQUOIA TREE ^^^^^^

            i addressed it. Jim addressed it. Kenny addressed it. Too bad you’re too stiffnecked and steeped in your lies and rebellion to accept it. I doubt there is any number people that could confront you on your lies to be enough for you to accept it.

            Once again proving you do not have eyes to see.

          • NewcastleB

            Thanks for stopping by Royce. You’re a regular poster boy for the kind of self righteousness, pride, religiosity and moralizing Christ regularly warned about and preached against. A regular Pharisee.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Thanks for continuing to show your heart and that you actually practice being an abomination to God. Even AFTER I cited Pro. 6:16-19, 19:5,9, & Matt. 5:19 AND pointed out that THREE people on here have shown you the error of you ways, two of them given Scripture to you to support their position and refute your LIES, and ALL you have come back with are ad homs and person attacks. NOTHING else. NO SUBSTANCE whatsoever. EXACTLY like you just did there AGAIN.

            And if you weren’t such a stiffnecked, arrogant, prideful, rebellious son of disobedience and child of wrath you’d see that. Nor would you be showing your Biblical ignorance by throwing out one idiotic cliche after another. You just proved AGAIN your Biblical ignorance and that you know NOTHING about the Pharisees or why Jesus criticized them. You probably aren’t even aware that Jesus told the People to obey the Pharisees and do what they told the people to do!

            Now, for anyone else who might read this, let NB be a lesson for you. Here are some sure fire signs of a Poser:

            1) They Distract, Divert, & Like just like their daddy Satan
            2) They always accuse others of being what they are doing at the same time they do the accusing
            3) They don’t confess & repent & have NO teachable spirit whatsoever
            4) They constantly & repeatedly show their Biblical ignorance followed by stiffnecked rebellion as they practice their sin in the plain sight for all to see
            5) They have NO fear of the Lord and don’t hesitate one nanosecond to misuse, twist, & downright lie about what God says
            6) The fall back on the old worn out cliches like “judge not”, “cast the first stone”, “holier than thou”, “self-righteous”, “God is Love”, etc. etc. etc.
            7) When confronted on their sin they lash out & go on the attack

          • NewcastleB

            You can sure say very little with a lot of words there Royce. It’s a gift.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Even a fool who keeps silent is considered wise; when he closes his lips, he is deemed intelligent. (Pro 17:28)

            A fool does not delight in understanding, But only in revealing his own mind. (Prov. 18:2)

            The wise of heart will receive commands, But a babbling fool will be ruined. (Prov. 10:8)

            Doing wickedness is like sport to a fool, And so is wisdom to a man of understanding. (Prov. 10:23)

            The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, But a wise man is he who listens to counsel. (Prov. 12:15)

            “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” (Rom. 3:13-14)

            “Behold, they belch forth with their mouth; Swords are in their lips, For, they say, “Who hears?” But You, O LORD, laugh at them;” (Psa. 59:7-8)

          • Jim Walker

            Why is it that we speak the truth, be looked upon as self-righteous, pride, and moralizing ?
            I’m not self-righteous when I tell a good friend that his drug addiction is wrong as his body is the temple of God.
            I’m not proud when I tell him that his homosexual relationship is wrong as the Bible clearly states its an abomination.
            I’m not moralizing when I tell him all the above truths.

            It will be a sin for me that I just tell them Jesus Loves You and don’t care about their well being.

            If everything of caution is “moralizing” then you want to put us into this verse what Jesus warns us about :

            James 2:15~17
            If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

            We cannot just tell them about Jesus and His Grace, we have to do much more.
            Hope you agree with my explanation.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            There are six things that the LORD HATES, seven that are an ABOMINATION to him: haughty eyes, a LYING TONGUE, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a FALSE WITNESS who breathes out LIES and one who sows discord among brothers. (Prov. 6:16-19)

            “A false witness will not go unpunished, And he who tells lies will not escape.” (Prov. 19:5)

            “A false witness will not go unpunished, And he who tells lies will perish.” (Prov. 19:9)

            “For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, FALSE WITNESS, SLANDERS.” (Matt. 5:19)

            Neither Jim nor I have said one single thing that was “self-righteous”. Quite to the contrary. Just the opposite. In fact, it is YOU with your choosing to accept Jesus and the grace of God that is showing self-righteousness!!!!!!!! Like there is ANYTHING in you or anyone else that is good enough to choose God.

            Throwing out the “self-righteousness” card, much like the “Holier than thou” – is the oh so often touted mantra against someone by those who wish to cling to their sin.

            “That’s what really bugs you isn’t it Royce.”

            Don’t flatter yourself, bub. I’m not bugged and your little feckless, impotent, flaming arrows are swatted down like mosquitoes before they ever draw blood. All you’ve done is show yourself for who you are.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Amen! Unlike NB, God hasn’t shared His omniscience with me so I can’t say what the reason is for his false and heretical statements. Except to say he obviously has NO fear of the Lord which is the beginning of knowledge & wisdom.

            That said, I’m more inclined to think he’s the result and fruit of the shallow seeker-sensitive namby-pamby easy-believism chicken soup for the soul Pop Psychology that’s trying to be passed off as the real Gospel in so many churches and by SO many self-professing Christians today. He certainly alluded to that with His idea that God is just giving the Unbeliever what they choose. They don’t wanna be with Him so He won’t “force” them to do so. Horse pucky!!

            The language of Scripture is crystal CLEAR! Jesus HURLS them into the Lake Of Fire. Anyone who has even an inkling of an idea of what the Lake Of Fire is gonna be like who have to be absolutely nuts to think that even one single person would choose to go there. NOT even for a day. Let alone Eternity.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            “So, is their sin somehow worse than yours or mine or anyone else’s? It isn’t. God doesn’t differentiate between sins. All sin is an abomination to God. Yours, mine, everyone’s.”

            “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.” (John 8:44)

            “if they do choose Christ it won’t matter what their sins were”

            There’s that false Man-Centered Gospel & Soteriology again. NOBODY chooses Christ. Christ is the One who chooses.

            “Sin doesn’t keep us from heaven.”

            Another lie from the false prophet.

            “If it did no one would be there.”

            Another lie from the false prophet.

            Btw, that’s called “practicing lawlessness”. Take a little look-see at Matt. 7:21-23 and see if that sin will keep YOU outta Heaven as YOU choose Christ and call Him “Lord” to His face,.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            “the problem is that pointing fingers and people and calling them sinners isn’t a very good way to express to them God’s love ”

            LOL. Ya mean like Jesus did? LOL Yeah, doing what Jesus did isn’t a very good way to express God’s love. LOL

            “And you can be sure that’s the way they hear that.”

            Oh really? You must be pretty special to have God share His omniscience with you,.

            “We’re called to spread the good news ”

            You really have NO clue what the Gospel is.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            “One is no different than another.”

            That’s just an outright lie. Whether it be outta ignorance, false teaching, or what have you when you profess to be a Christian you are a prophet speaking for God and THAT just made you a false prophet. Pretty sure I’ve specifically shown you before how various sins ARE different from one another and just as Believers will be rewarded differently for their works so will the Unbelievers be rewarded (punished) differently for theirs.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            “I believe in the radical fallenness of man… who are powerless to save themselves. people are free to accept or reject that grace.”

            How is it that you completely fail to see that is a contradiction in terms? How is it that you don’t understand the very definition of Grace? How is it that since we are saved BY Grace and according to you it’s up to Man to decide whether he wants to accept or reject it that IT IS Man who’s NOT powerless to save themselves.

            “And that if they do reject it, God will not force those people to spend eternity with him.”

            Smh. You have GOT to be kidding!! You really could NOT have it more backwards!

          • NewcastleB

            Again, off topic.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Obviously you can’t understand the Word of God so let’s try a little secular proverbs and see if that takes…

            A wise man once said it is better to keep your mouth shut and not show your ignorance than open it and remove all doubt. You should work on your wisdom a bit.

            “Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools speak because they have to say something” – Plato

          • NewcastleB

            You’d do well to take you’re own advise.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            LOL ^^^^ GIANT SEQUOIA TREE STUCK IN EYE SOCKET ^^^^

          • NewcastleB

            Does it not strike you Royce that the people that verse addresses are the people making the accusations. In our exchanges Royce, that’s you.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Keep talkin’!! Once AGAIN you’ve shown your Biblical ignorance, your blindness, AND your hypocrisy. You just proved my point, Dipstick!! Talk about a Poster Boy!! You are the Poster Boy for EXACTLY what Matt. 7:1-5 is talking about and the “judge not” crowd. Whattaya think “In our exchanges Royce, that’s you” is if not an accusation!!! Duh!!

            Just keep talkin’.

            The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble. (Pro 16:4)

            “You will certainly carry out God’s purpose, however you act, but it makes a difference to you whether you serve like Judas or like John.” – C.S. Lewis

            I’m confident that God is using you to open up His children’s minds with your foolishness. What the picture perfect epitome of the spiritually-dead and blind.

          • NewcastleB

            Thanks Royce. I couldn’t have hand picked someone who’s enmity I find as much of a complement as your’s does to me.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Like a dog that returns to its vomit is a fool who repeats his folly. (Prov. 26:11)

            The wise of heart will receive commands, But a babbling fool will be ruined. (Prov. 10:8)

            Like I said, that’s ALL he’s got.

            Easier than confessing & repenting though I ‘spose.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Do you even listen to yourself? Jesus Himself is the one who will separate the sheep from the goats. The wheat from the chaff/tares. Every single one of your posts thus far make Man out to be Sovereign and God some impotent, incapable bystander to Man’s whims.

          • NewcastleB

            Could you go further out of your way to misconstrue my comments. What a joke you are Royce.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Thanks for showing the best ya got! LOL Well said son of disobedience and child of wrath. Now run on back to your daddy, Satan, and get another flaming arrow to fling.

            “God isn’t separating from them. They’re the ones’ making the choice to separate from him.”

            NOTHING misconstrued!! You just lied again. Read Rev. 21:8 lately? Aww, nevermind. You’ve probably cut out most of Revelation along with all the other parts of the Bible, like, oh say, 2Thes. 2:11-12. LOVE to see how that fits into your Man-Centered “accepting Grace” theology! LOL

            Now keep talking! You’re showing who the joke is! And ALL you’ve got. Your posts are just SO jammed-packed with SUBSTANCE! LOL

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            LOL. Do you think the Lake Of Fire is gonna be a big party where the Rebels are given the “freedom to live out their eternity without God”? LOL NO!! They will have NO free will and will be DEAD in the 2nd Death of eternal torment in the Lake Of Fire FOREVER.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            It’s not that they refuse God’s grace. It’s that they never surrendered their life as a slave to the Lord Jesus Christ, died to themselves, and begged Jesus to save them and therefore God never extended His grace to them because Jesus never accepted them. it’s NOT us accepting the King. It’s whether the King accepts us.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            “Sin doesn’t keep us from heaven.”

            Uh, yes it does. Have you ever heard of something called “Atonement” or “Justification”?

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          “We get into heaven by accepting God’s grace.”

          Wrong AGAIN! You’ve got it backwards. Your Soteriology is as messed up as your Theology. Talk about a Man-Centered Gospel & Theology!

    • Royce E. Van Blaricome

      So, according to your theology evidently Rom. 13 is missing from your Bible and “we” (Christians) should not expect Unbelievers to not go around committing murder, raping, stealing, etc.

      • NewcastleB

        Wow. Such an insightful comment. Like murder, raping, stealing, have anything to do with the topic at hand. Try staying on topic there Royce. It’s really not that hard.

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          Wow! Such utter intellectual ignorance and total ineptness at Reading Comprehension. But that’s what ya get folks when one can’t refute the truth bought against their lies and can’t bring themselves to confess and repent.

          ALL he has done thus far is tout the same old line that his words are being taken outta context. Well, I don’t have crayons on here to draw the boy a picture so I’ll try this: His words:

          “So, as Christians, we shouldn’t care what anyone’s lifestyle is..Secular people have no reason nor should we expect them to conform with Christian moral teaching.”

          So every single word I spoke above speaks DIRECTLY TO YOUR CONTEXT,

          Now keep talking. You’re doing a bang up job of showing your heart and making yourself out to be not only a Poser but just the kind of fool Jesus talks about.

          Even a fool who keeps silent is considered wise; when he closes his lips, he is deemed intelligent. (Pro 17:28)

          A fool does not delight in understanding, But only in revealing his own mind. (Prov. 18:2)

          A fool’s mouth is his ruin, and his lips are a snare to his soul. (Prov. 18:7)

          • NewcastleB

            Murder, rape and stealing are against the civil law. Homosexuality, at this point, contravenes only Christian moral teaching. That’s why your initial post is …. stupid.

            I’ve already addressed your other points and given that you’re still cherry picking my responses I’ll stop here.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Boy howdy but you are a dense one!! Whattaya think I was talking about when I brought up Romans 13? And you call my post stupid!! LOL

            But again, alas, you do what the spiritually-dead, totally-depraved sons of disobedience and children of wrath do when they’ve been cornered by their own words. Ya just lash out.

            Christians know that before ANY civil law against Murder, Rape, Stealing, etc. there was GOD’S LAW. At one time Homosexuality was against the Law too. But then came along people like you. The FACT is that I showed the STUPIDITY in YOUR claim and doing so hurt your widdle feewings. So instead of confessing and surrendering your life as a slave to the Lord Jesus Christ you continue to be your own little god and lash out.

            Bare your teeth all ya like ya little wolf. I’ll take my sword of the Spirit and knock ’em out.

            Come and save me, LORD God! Break my enemies’ jaws and shatter their teeth, because you protect and bless your people. (Psa 3:7-8)

            Oh, btw, I’ve already seen a couple more replies come in from you lied there. Keep practicing that lying and see how that works out for ya. You would’ve actually been wise had you stopped.

          • NewcastleB

            You just love wagging your finger at folks don’t you Royce.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            This coming from the man who just talked about me being the only one making accusations! LOL

            Like I said folks, that right there is all they got. And I mean ALL!!

            Like a dog that returns to its vomit is a fool who repeats his folly. (Prov. 26:11)

            Do you see a man wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him. (Prov. 26:12)

          • NewcastleB

            Wag, wag wag.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Thank you for that wonderful display of how you characterize the Word of God. One more sign of a son of disobedience. And that I have no more time for your foolishness. As I said before, THREE people have tried to help you and brought you the Truth of God’s Word. You, in return, have rejected that Truth, hurled false accusations against them, bore false witness against them, and mocked God’s Word and those efforts.

            So lean in real close and listen. Hear that? Listen close, with your self-imposed god-complex. Maybe you’ll hear it. It’s the sound of the dust being shaken from my feet.

            “Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet. Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.” (Matt. 10:14-15)

            Keep it up, refuse to confess & repent, surrender your life as a slave to the Lord Jesus Christ as your new Master so that Self, Sin, & Satan no longer are and you’ll have all Eternity with the sodomites in eternal torment to think about your foolishness and wickedness. Buh Bye!

          • NewcastleB

            Oh, so you copy and pasting any random verse you think justifies your self righteousness and religiosity makes you the very vessel of God. You’re a self righteous fool as anyone reading your overblown nonsense can clearly see. A pompous moralizing dope.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            LOL. This from the man who just yesterday accused me of being the only one making accusations in this discussion! LOL

            Once AGAIN he puts on a public display of:
            1) Showing the best he’s got. NOTHING but personal attacks and the flaming arrows his daddy, Satan, puts in his quiver
            2) His narcissistic, psychotic faux-omniscience exercised from his self-imposed god-complex
            3) His Jer. 17:9 heart per Matt. 15:18
            4) His Biblical ignorance. Not only as to what “self-righteousness” is but also the Word of God. See Isa. 55:11
            5) His incessant practicing of sin
            6) His total lack of any fear of the Lord coupled with his utter lack of concern for practicing being an abomination to God
            7) He’s a typical Poser too stiffnecked and rebellious to surrender to Christ.

            So look at his posts again. THAT is who they are. Learn to recognize it. You will see it over and over and over again. Read his last two sentences there again. Learn to recognize it. THAT is just how blind they are.

            But one day those eyes will be opened. They will have perfect eyes to see the Lake Of Fire that Jesus gives them as He hurls them into it.

          • NewcastleB

            You never do run out of words do you Royce. Your cup runneth over and over and over and over.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Like a dog that returns to its vomit is a fool who repeats his folly. (Prov. 26:11)

            “Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools speak because they have to say something” – Plato

          • NewcastleB

            Aren’t you the one copy and pasting the same verses over and over there Royce. Seems if someone is returning to something it’s you. And isn’t copy and pasting the same thing over and over more having to say something rather than having something to say?

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            The Poser calls God’s Word vomit because I repeated it. I wonder if he’ll do the same with God who repeats Himself several times. Whenever God sees fit to repeat Himself I’ve always considered that to mean He is emphasizing it and really wants me to get it. Sure wouldn’t be telling God His Word is vomit and He’s like a dog. But hey, I ‘spose one should expect it from a Poser. Oh well, like I said, its his eternity.

            “so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth;
            it shall not return to me empty,
            but it shall accomplish that which I purpose,
            and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.” (Isa. 55:11)

          • NewcastleB

            You really are the perfect blowhard Royce. Tell us the truth. You really believe that God speaks directly through you. You believe quoting scripture makes your judgements infallible. Oh! We should all fall down in fear because Royce knows how to copy and paste.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” (Rom. 3:13-14)

            “Behold, they belch forth with their mouth; Swords are in their lips, For, they say, “Who hears?” But You, O LORD, laugh at them;” (Psa. 59:7-8)

            “For there is no truth in their mouth; their inmost self is destruction; their throat is an open grave; they flatter with their tongue. Make them bear their guilt, O God; let them fall by their own counsels; because of the abundance of their transgressions cast them out, for they have rebelled against you.” (Psa 5:9-10)

            “His mouth is full of curses and deceit and oppression; Under his tongue is mischief and wickedness.” (Psa. 10:7)

            “They mock and wickedly speak of oppression; They speak from on high.” (Psa 73:8)

            “They pour forth words, they speak arrogantly; All who do wickedness vaunt themselves.” (Psa 94:4)

            “knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires.” (2Pe 3:3)

          • NewcastleB

            Look folks, Royce can copy and paste! And the more he does the less he says.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Oh lookey there folks! Didn’t take long at all for the little son of disobedience and child of wrath to go running back to his daddy for another couple flaming arrows. Ya gotta appreciate his public display at just how much weight he gives the Word of God.

            Just let ’em talk, folks! Just let ’em talk. We get to see a little more of his Jer. 17:9 heart every single time he does.

            “knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires.” (2Pe 3:3)

            “There is an inspired truth about the wicked person who has rebellion in the depths of his heart: He is not terrified of God.” (Psa. 36:1)

          • NewcastleB

            You never do run out of pomposity and arrogance do you Royce. Here you are passing eternal judgement something specifically reserved for God himself. Yet, you think it’s somehow reserved for God and Royce. If that doesn’t sum up your preening self righteousness and overblown moralizing nothing does.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            And this is the condemnation: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. (John 3:19-20)

            THERE is the “condemnation” folks. NOT in quoting the very words of Jesus and following them! And yet Satan’s minions are SO stupid and BLIND that they use the words of Jesus to do their daddy’s bidding. Just like when Satan was SO stupid to think he could use the words of Jesus against Jesus Himself! LOL

            Now let’s see how long it takes this little son of disobedience and child of wrath to run on back to his daddy and get another flaming arrow to fling. Aren’t ya glad to see he never makes any accusations? LOLOLOLOLOLOL

          • NewcastleB

            Accusation? That wasn’t an accusation Royce. It was a description that you’ve given all the evidence for.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Try Google or a Dictionary. While you’re there look up abomination. Because that’s what God says you are to Him. Now keep practicing it like a typical son of disobedience.

            Like a dog that returns to its vomit is a fool who repeats his folly. (Prov. 26:11)

            Do you see a man wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him. (Prov. 26:12)

          • NewcastleB

            And now you’ve copy and pasted the same thing in two consecutive posts. Aren’t you the one still returning to something like your Prov. verse talks about.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            So now the Poser calls God’s Word vomit! LOL Best thing one can do with Posers is the same thing to do with Satan. Pull out you sword and slice ’em up.

            “so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth;
            it shall not return to me empty,
            but it shall accomplish that which I purpose,
            and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.” (Isa. 55:11)

  • Walt Viet

    homosexuality is a sin in the Bible. The word of God makes that very clear.
    Now as for the unforgivable sin people have a hard time with this one. But it
    is easy any sin you will not ask forgiveness for is the unforgivable sin.
    You have turned your back on the Holy Spirit.

  • Royce E. Van Blaricome

    Thank you, Dr. Brown. ALL good points and I especially appreciate all the references you gave. One for the keeping with lots of helpful tools in one place.

    I wanna send out a specific and special “Bravo Zulu” for making your 12th point. I believe it is entirely possible that the rapid explosion of rampant Homosexuality in such a short period of time can be laid directly in the laps of SO many self-professing Christians who hold tightly to an idol they call Jesus who practices “affirmational inclusion” just as they do. Their Jesus idol would never hurt anyone’s feelings.

    What’s sad is that SO many have created a Jesus in their own image according to their own ways, will, & wisdom. It’s like they’ve got their own Jefferson Bible only they’ve cut out all the parts where Jesus ever judged, raised his voice, got angry, rebuked (disrespected & insulted according to them), mentioned Hell or eternal torment, or in any other way “unloving and offended anyone.

    God’s ways are not Man’s ways and are, in fact, often opposite of Man’s wisdom. Man says, “You can’t reach someone by alienating them or pushing them away.” One day there may well be MANY who are shocked to find out what God would have done had they just obeyed God and left all the consequences to Him. Obeyed “have nothing to do with”, “shake the dust from your feet”, and “put them out”.

    Maybe, just maybe, if Christians, Posers, Apostates, & Wolves stopped practicing their sinful “affirmational inclusion” those on the “outside” would actually wanna belong with the rest. Imagine what the wedding would be like if Jesus just let everybody in regardless of whether they had the right wedding garment on or not.

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