I’m Sorry, but Caitlyn Jenner is a Man Wearing a Dress

TV personality Caitlyn Jenner arrives at the 2016 Vanity Fair Oscar Party Hosted By Graydon Carter at Wallis Annenberg Center for the Performing Arts on Feb. 28, 2016 in Beverly Hills, Calif.

By Michael Brown Published on February 27, 2017

I do not write these words lightly, and there is not an ounce of mockery or, God forbid, hatred in my heart when I say that Caitlyn Jenner is a man wearing a dress. I am simply speaking the plain and obvious truth, as politically incorrect as that truth might be right now. But with transgender issues dominating the news these days, and in light of Tucker Carlson’s epic takedown of Democratic leader Zac Petkanas on national TV last week (specifically, discussing gender-related questions), it appears that now is as good a time as ever to state some things clearly.

So then, to avoid all ambiguity: No, you do not get to choose your gender; no, gender is not determined by the level of your personal enlightenment (as Petkanas alleged); no, your gender does not change simply because you announce that it has changed; and no, it is not good science to allow people to change their sexual identity on their birth certificates. In fact, there is nothing scientific about that at all.

This being said, I do not minimize for a moment the very real struggle of precious little children who struggle deeply with their gender identity, nor do I deny that many children (and adults) report that their lives are more stable and fulfilled when they identify as the opposite of their biological sex.

You are not defective any more than I am defective, and every human being on the planet is broken in some way and in need of a Great Physician.

I do not minimize the traumas through which Bruce Jenner (or others like him) has lived, nor do I claim to be able to relate to those traumas personally.

And I do not make a spiritual judgment about someone who struggles with their gender identity, as if this struggle somehow made them into the vilest of sinners. Why should that be the case?

Again, my goal is not to belittle or disparage, and as loudly and clearly as I can, I proclaim God’s love for all of you who identify as transgender, reminding each one that Jesus died for you just as He died for me and that God has a good and godly purpose for each of your lives.

You are not defective any more than I am defective, and every human being on the planet is broken in some way and in need of a Great Physician.

Caring Enough to Speak the Truth

But because I care enough about the transgender community to speak out, even though I’ll be branded a transphobe and bigot, I’m going to state things with clarity and conviction here, reminding us that the emperor has no clothes (as Carlson rightly did on Fox last week). And I’m going to encourage parents and policy makers, counselors and pastors, educators and activists, along with all those who care about their trans-identified friends and family that: 1) there is no settled science confirming transgender identity; 2) we still know very little about many operations of the brain, including those related to what is now called gender dysphoria (previously known as gender identity disorder, or GID); 3) studies continue to indicate that the vast majority of children who identify as transgender do not do so after puberty (even if many ultimately identify as gay); 4) there must be a better way than our current approach to treating gender dysphoria; 5) it is unfair to impose the struggles of less than 1 percent of the population on the rest of the population, especially on impressionable kids; and 6) gender distinctions should be celebrated and appreciated, rather than branded patriarchal or heterosexist or the like.

And while I’m at it, let me say this to CNN’s Chris Cuomo: Sir, it is not intolerant for a father not to want his daughter to see a boy’s penis at school. That’s called being a good dad.

I address these issues (and more) on this new video commentary, including some telling clips with Jenner and with Carlson and Petkanas, along with some shocking statements from Cuomo and from California public universities.

Please take a few minutes to watch and share the video (it’s less than 8 minutes), and then do three things: 1) pray for a fresh and real love for those who struggle with their gender identity; 2) reach out to those who identify as transgender and ask them sincerely to tell you their story; and 3) help them find wholeness in the Lord.

And remember: Caitlyn Jenner is no more a woman than Rachel Dolezal is black.

Those are the facts, and nothing more.

WATCH:

 

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  • Jim Walker

    I do hope Rachel just go take up a job at Starbucks as a Barista to make ends meet.

    • Kevin Quillen

      can’t she just say that she is a male Syrian refugee to get a job at fivebucks?

      • Jim Walker

        “black” male Syrian refugee – there corrected for you.

    • Christopher Steven Jenkins

      How terrible that a company is helping people who are victims of violence and war !!!! “There is nothing worse than helping those in need” – Jesus

      • Jim Walker

        We should help them pack and go back to their home country and find some safe zones there or at least house them temporarily in US until a better time.
        US has a $20T debt. No other country has more. Yet the rich Arab countries do little to bring in their own kin.

        We are never against immigrants or refugees, we are against illegal ones.
        Your logic is so messed up with your emotions, you can’t think straight. The key word is “illegal”.

        Let’s say you have little food just for your kid and you see a stranger.
        Who would you give that food to ? Your kid or the stranger ?

        To make it worse, you have your kid at the end of a pole balancing on 1 end and a stranger at the other, you can only save one, who would you save ?

        If you do feel so much for these victims of violence and war, go offer your help. Don’t be a keyboard warrior.

        • Christopher Steven Jenkins

          It isn’t possible to be an “illegal” refugee. By definition, refugees have gone through a 2 year process and been given legal status. I agree that safe zones are good and I agree that their homes need to be rebuilt — that is what they want as well — to go home. Unfortunately it is not that simple and not fixable overnight, so in the mean time we take in refugees to our own countries to alleviate certain tensions and also because it’s the right thing to do. I am not going to open up the immigrant can of worms because your comment was originally about refugees so I will stick to that topic. Would I give to my kid or the stranger? That’s irrelevant. The US has the capacity and wealth to serve its citizens and some refugees if done properly. The reason the debt is so high is mostly because of bush’s war and the interest on it that continues (Obama did spend a lot, but not as much as bush. he spend about 60 percent of what bush spent, although the debt almost doubled under obama because of the interest on the 10 trillion which bush had already amassed. There was a surplus when Clinton left office). Yes, America faces many issues, but if we focus we can tackle multiple issues at once. If you want to talk about why we’re 20 trill in debt it is not because of refugees and you know that. I do feel sorry for these victims. And one way that I can help as someone who doesn’t have a lot of money is by educating people — by speaking, and yes, by typing!!! Words are powerful things. I’m not going to change everyone’s mind and I probably won’t change yours, but I have changed peoples’ minds online before, so it’s worth it for me to try. If attitudes can change it will end up helping the people that I care about. You’re free to disagree with me, but please don’t tell me that I’m not doing what I believe is best to help.

          • Jim Walker

            I did not blame Obama for the $20T debt.
            He made a decision, to let all those greedy corporations fail or to use steroids to sustain until they are nursed back to health (this is the cause of the huge debt) Yes Bush is to be blamed for toxic bubble.

            “US has the capacity and “wealth” to serve some refugees ?”
            US as a country is bankrupt, to help these refugees is to add more debt.
            I do agree that we should help as much as we can.
            I still disagree with you that refugees has priority over citizens for jobs.
            And I still and never agree that Gender is malleable. Its because of the mind, you are seeing people thinking they are trees, animals, 6 year old girls, etc. I put LGBTQs in this category of mental health.

  • Paul

    Michael, why are you sorry? The truth needs no apology.

    • Christopher Steven Jenkins

      Because deep down he knows he is wrong. He is hiding behind Jesus/love while espousing a sanitized version of hate. Real love doesn’t need to be explained or defended. Real love is just love.

      • Paul

        Your response well illustrates my point. Being apologetic about the truth simply gives an opening to purveyors of sin.

        • Lisadoll

          “Purveyors of sin”?!
          WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN?!
          And WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE THE “SINS” OF OTHERS?!

          • Paul

            I use Gods measures as provided in the Bible, not my own

          • Lisadoll

            Perhaps you’d better study that book a bit more.
            I believe it says something about judgement.
            Why don’t you leave that up to God, and worry about your own life?

          • Paul

            Ah, the favorite fall back when confronted by truth…’wahhh, don’t judge me’. There’s prisons full of folks saying the same thing.

  • Autrey Windle

    Bruce Jenner is so much worse than a man in a dress. He is a public figure, a hero athlete if you will, who publicly whines for attention by his actions and instead of going away somewhere privately he seeks public approval all because it’s all about him and his poor unhappiness with how God made him. This is such a horrible thing to parade in front of the public and children who look up to athletes that I just couldn’t be more shocked that anyone approves of it. He will need God before all is said and done, but don’t hold your breath…these people think they ARE god and the proof of that is in their actions. GOD HELP US IF THIS IS WHERE SOCIETY’S APPROVAL IS HEADED!

    • Dean Bruckner

      I read that a woman whom Bruce Jenner impregnated said he pressured her to have an abortion. I wonder if he did that more than once, or even often. Abortion guilt could lead someone do all kinds of strange and evil things.

      • Lisadoll

        Okay. Really?
        “Bruce Jenner impregnated And pressured “.
        How does a women get “pressured” to terminate a pregnancy? Last I checked, we are in control of , and take responsibility for our own bodies.
        Which, MUST include birth control, since so many diseases are spread through unprotected sex.
        Unwanted pregnancies can happen as quickly as transmission of aids.
        Or shall we blame men for that, too?

        • Triple T

          I’m not sure you understand what the word “pressured” means if you think “being in control of your own body” somehow makes you immune to it.

          • Lisadoll

            Uh . Yes. Being in control of your own body means that you make your own decisions about it,
            Above what any man thinks, says , or threatens .

          • Triple T

            If you make your own decision regardless of what anyone else says, you aren’t feeling pressure. By definition.
            Also, gown-ups don’t write “uh”.

          • Lisadoll

            Well they do in the casual age of texting.
            Grow up! LOL!

          • Lisadoll

            It DOES make me immune. I realize that I can do whatever I want with my body.
            You are extremely naive to believe that women have not been terminating pregnancies since time began, without men knowing

        • Dean Bruckner

          I’m not sure what you mean here.

          Pressure is just that: get an abortion or our relationship is over, get an abortion because it’s your fault you’re pregnant, get an abortion or I will have to find sex elsewhere, get an abortion or I will let everyone know what you did when….

          I didn’t say it was right, just that it happens and is often effective. Women in this situation are in a vulnerable position; are you saying they are not?

          Please clarify your meaning.

          • Lisadoll

            They’re NOT. They have choices. Men can ASSUME that they pressure women. Men actually have no idea what women do, where they go. Or who they talk to. We will terminate rather than raise a child we cannot afford, or do not WANT To parent with a particular man. If abortion is illegal, we will find a way anyhow, just like we have since time began.
            YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY A MAN, AND EITHER HAVE NO IDEA HOW POWERFUL AND RESOURCEFUL WOMEN ARE, OR YOU ARE THREATENED BY SAID POWER AND RESOURCEFUL NESS.
            Women can BECOME vulnerable when their choice to terminate is removed. Usually poor women are impacted the most because of their inability to travel to a country where abortion is safe and legal.

          • Dean Bruckner

            Shorter Lisadoll: I am going to seize God’s place even if it kills me.

            It will, and eternally so. But it doesn’t have to. Ask God for his forgiveness and give your life to him. He loves you and died for you, no matter what you have done.

            “For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him might not perish, but have eternal life.” – Jesus, in John’s gospel, chapter 3, verse 16

          • Lisadoll

            Hysterical!
            Because I disagree with YOU, you think you need to tell ME about Christianity? HAHAHHAA!
            I’m an ordained minister.

        • Autrey Windle

          I don’t know if you are or how long you have actually been a woman, but you certainly haven’t known many men if you don’t know about how men can pressure women to have abortions, sex,lie to their parents or a multitude of other sins. I would bet you are bitter because you HAVE BEEN pressured and given in to some of the aforementioned…

          • Lisadoll

            Nope.
            Im a leader , not a follower.
            And I have only one authority.
            My decisions are my own. Period.

      • Autrey Windle

        It certainly wouldn’t surprise me…

    • Kevin Quillen

      Autrey; I am afraid that the genie is out of the bottle to stay. Generations of children have been brainwashed in public school and are now taking their place in the leadership of this country. We are doomed. America will never be what the founders intended again. Stay close to Jesus and it will be well for you.

      • Lisadoll

        What do you mean “brainwashed in public school”?
        I went to public school and all I got was the three R’s.
        Please explain the phrase,
        Because I KEEP seeing it , and I have no idea to what you are eluding.

  • Gary

    Its Bruce Jenner pretending to be a female. An impersonator. A shameful, perverted liar.

    • The Celestial Teapot

      Gary, why do you feel the need to make the same comment? It’s like your protesting too much. Such people are often projecting. Is there something you want to tell us?

      • Gary

        Yes. I want to tell you that you are a pervert. You might not think you are, but you are.

    • Christopher Steven Jenkins

      I bet you’ve dressed up before, Gary. Are you ashamed? It’s very obvious… It’s okay. We love you.

      • Gary

        I have never worn women’s clothes, even as a joke. What’s obvious is your perversion. And I don’t love you.

        • Christopher Steven Jenkins

          The Bible tells you to love me, even if I am a sinner, which you believe I am.

  • Denise Smith

    In this case…..the Emperor does indeed have clothes….but it’s a dress. Mental illness has spun out of control….and the psychiatric community has no answers….but to coddle. Unless and until we can address this ‘gender’ issue for what it truly is….the future remains dark. Very dark.

    • You’re right, without having much success in diagnosing, let alone treating mental problems, the psych professions are now essentially drug-deliver vehicles—the result of a collapse of the field’s underlying philosophical foundations.

      Without a sound scientific rationale, the major psych associations ‘voted’ to ‘normalize’ the Sexual Revolution, and Beyond. The light will again come once their authority is questioned.

    • Gary

      Psychiatrists are crazier than the people they are attempting to treat.

      • It seems as if they’ve become the ‘enablers’ (one of their own terms). But I would go further, openly facilitating mental disturbances is more than crazy, it’s evil.

        It’s part of a larger trend in medicine: ‘assisting’ in suicide, infanticide, etc.

      • Autrey Windle

        sometimes, Gary, sometimes…and more and more often.

    • James Doyle

      Also especially when you have parents pushing this agenda on to 3 year olds.My God What chance have these kids got.

      • Jayanne Stan

        They should be charged with complicity for aiding and abetting a minor.

      • Lisadoll

        That is ridiculous nonsense.
        Nobody I saw pushing anything on their children.
        WHERE DO YOU PEOPLE GET THESE NOTIONS?

    • Christopher Steven Jenkins

      You clearly don’t understand the definition of mental illness.

  • Jenner is not well; he needs help. People need stop idolizing psychologically-disturbed celebrities or the media/entertained business that profits from their insanity.

    More people need to help stop the madness. Folks can start now by turning off the Oscars—brought to you by gay-promoting ABC TV.

  • Laura Rowell O’Neill

    Caring enough to speak the truth is what we all need to do! God bless you.

    • Christopher Steven Jenkins

      gross.

  • Becks Torres

    A man in a dress and make up does not a woman make.

    • Triple T

      A man in a dress and makeup, a very ugly woman makes

      • Jim Walker

        hahahaaaa….. this made my day !

    • Christopher Steven Jenkins

      Hi, Becks. As we all know, biological sex is not fluid. However, gender IS fluid. Keep that in mind. Trans people don’t exist for YOU to find them attractive. They’re just doing their own thing.

      • Becks Torres

        I don’t find them attractive, but this has nothing to do with that. I respect them as humans; however, I don’t believe that they should have special rights for something that they are choosing to do. They are not born women and take hormones to have any resemblance of womanly attributes hence my point.

        Respect my opinion and I’ll respect yours even if I don’t agree with it. That’s one of the differences between conservatives and liberals, liberals want to shout down anyone who doesn’t agree with them. Have a good day, sir.

        • Paul

          I think you bring up an important problem, conservatives have been far too tolerant of the lies and corruption brought by liberals. It needs to be pulled out by the root and burned.

          • Becks Torres

            Agreed. Who are the ones rioting, looting, etc.? Hypocrisy.
            .

          • Lisadoll

            Oh . My. God.

          • Paul

            So you prefer liberal lies and corruption? Or are you making the false assumption that I’m talking about destroying people as opposed to false ideas?

      • Paul

        I must applaud the liberals on their effective twisting of language to make a lie appear true.

        The lie that gender is different from sex has been sold long enough such that common language deems it true, reinforced by a compliant media. Add in bureaucrats who have artfully replaced the word sex with gender on forms and now everyone is forced to ‘self identify’ their sex since gender is now deemed a choice.

        Bravo to the liberals for a well executed scheme, most people have been asleep while it has been artfully executed.

  • faithntrust

    At best, Bruce Jenner would appear to be a transvestite. Funny, no one talks about them anymore! I agree with whoever suggested that we quit giving them the publicity since it is just opinions [theories] & no one answers yet!

    • Astral Atheist

      Eddie Izzard is my favorite transvestite.

  • Hisame

    Face it BRUCE, you are and always will be A MAN no matter what pot you choose to piss in.

    • Christopher Steven Jenkins

      Hi, Hisame. Caitlyn will always be biologically male, yes, that is true. What you fail to understand is that sex and gender are not the same thing. Why do you have such an issue with a human being dressing how they like to dress and being called what they like to be called???? What does it matter to you?

      • Hisame

        Because as a woman I find it insulting that HE refers to and thinks that he is a WOMAN and can confidently speak on “women’s issues” when HE does little more than prance around in a dress. I also don’t like the idea of having to use a public restroom and a man in a dress being able to walk in and under law there is nothing to stop him if he is a pervert. Is that okay with you or am I being bigoted or unfair or downright mean? Other than that I couldn’t care less how someone wants to dress.

        • Christopher Steven Jenkins

          I sort of agree with you about Caitlin in particular. She isn’t the best example for women or for trans women, and I think it’s important to remember that she was a rich white man with a ton of privilege who had everything handed to him. So I kind of agree with you there. It’s absolutely fine to make the distinction that he doesn’t menstruate or know what childbirth is like. You have every right to take pause with her if she pretends to understands those aspects of womanhood which she doesn’t understand. As far as your locker room comment, I wrote a detailed comment about that above if you would like to check out my thoughts on it. Absolutely no one is telling girls that Jimmy will be showering with them and no one things it’s okay for a young girl to see a penis in a shower. This is not something that is happening though. Please see my earlier comment.

  • ScienceABC123

    Amen and amen.

  • Lisadoll

    Okay. Whatever.
    But I really do not understand all the fuss about bathrooms.
    Transgender people have been using whichever bathrooms that they want to , all along.
    You just didn’t notice it.
    Oh, and by the way.. in case you don’t know this:
    A girl is not going to see a penis in the ladies room. There are stalls in there. With doors.
    Get over it already.
    And why should ANYBODY care what people call themselves , or where they urinate?
    FOR THE LOVE OF GOD

    • Triple T

      School age girls who play on sports teams and use locker rooms and showers absolutely will see a penis in those environments if this “fuss” about facilities is allowed to stand.
      You can call yourself a bear with chainsaws for arms for all I care. You can invent any reality you want for yourself. But if a female relative of mine is using a public restroom, I’ll have no problem waiting by the entrance and telling one of these people that he won’t be going in until she is done.

      • Christopher Steven Jenkins

        lol give me one case in which that has happened. re: girls being shown penises in locker rooms. What you’re saying isn’t something that happens. Period. You’re ridiculous. GIVE ME ONE CASE. I’m waiting.

        • Triple T

          Well, it looks like your wait is over:

          A man claimed a right to use a women’s locker room at a public swimming pool after his partial undressing there caused alarm.

          According to Seattle Parks and Recreation, women alerted staff at Evans Pool staff when a man wearing swim trunks entered the women’s locker room and took off his shirt.

          When staff told him to leave, the man reportedly said “the law has changed and I have a right to be here.”

          Police were not called to respond to the Feb. 8 incident, although the man returned to the locker room while young girls were changing for swimming practice, King 5 reported.

          Who’s to say his “partial undressing” won’t lead to a “full undressing” next time?

          • Christopher Steven Jenkins

            Thank you for bringing this up, I researched the case you mentioned and I think we can further the discussion by talking about it. First of all, the irony is that all signs point to the fact that this man (who is not legitimately trans at all) actually agrees with your side and was doing what he did as a misguided sort of protest. Thankfully, he did not actually get naked or assault anyone. However, I believe he should have been kicked out because he clearly was not trans. Furthermore, had he escalated and exposed himself or assaulted anyone, he could have and should have been charged with indecent exposure and or sexual assault. There are already laws on the books for this kind of thing and NO ONE is advocating for removing them. To the extend that we can cooperate in finding better ways to protect women and girls from people like the man in the story, I will work with you. However, the fact remains that no actual trans person has every committed any crime in a restroom. I agree that showers and locker rooms are more problematic than restrooms that have stalls, but let’s not use one anecdote to put an end to the discussion we need to have. First of all, I think the idea of being naked around strangers in public, same sex or not, is weird in general, and I would promote the idea that we should have more private/individual areas for people to change and shower. However, as long as these places still exist, I think we should enforce our indecent exposure laws, which basically (in most states) say that if you expose yourself in a sexual manner or in a way that offends people, you can be convicted. So in theory, if a trans woman with a penis exposed it in a sexual or offensive way or especially in front of children, that person should be punished. I am talking common sense here, but the case I just used is hypothetical. The last thing trans women want to do is expose their genitalia in public, and again, you still have not provided a single case of this happening. As I said, your article presents a man trying to make a point (your point) who is not trans.

          • Triple T

            And it makes that point exactly as intended: People will abuse this law to go places they don’t belong in order to do things they shouldn’t be doing.

          • Christopher Steven Jenkins

            You didn’t respond to any specific points that I made in my very long reply. The fact is, if a perverted man wanted to be in a bathroom, he wouldn’t need laws protecting trans people to do so. It’s not hard to open a door, and it never has been. The fact is, almost all sex crimes are committed by people who know their victims and are hardly ever committed in bathrooms. Protecting trans rights is not going to cause people to suddenly become criminals and assault women. Men who want to assault women are already doing it, and if we want to address that issue then we need to confront rape culture and put child molesters in jail, not suppress trans rights.

      • Lisadoll

        THERE ARE STALLS IN WOMENS RESTROOMS. NOBODY SEES GENITALS. EVEN IN A WOMENS LOCKER ROOM.
        PS: Transgender people are HIDING THEIR PENISES. NOT SHOWING THEM.
        WHat is WRONG with you people?!

      • Lisadoll

        That is RIDICULOUS! There are stalls in WOMENS bathrooms, AND locker rooms. Nobody sees anybody’s genitals. EVER.
        AND in case you don’t HAVE any transgender friends or relatives, here’s some basic info for you:
        TRANS PEOPLE HIDE THEIR GENITALS if they haven’t had a sex change operation. They are absolutely not showing them in a public place,
        You people are not too bright.

        • Triple T

          Communal showers are quite common in locker rooms used by sports teams. There are no stalls.

    • Gary

      Many of us don’t want to be around perverts. Even in restrooms or locker rooms. What is keeping you from understanding that?

      • Astral Atheist

        Perverts are all around. If I take my son into a men’s restroom, there’s no way to ensure that Jerred from Subway will not use the urinal next to him. You can’t even go to church without fear of pedophile predators these days. Meanwhile, the transgender person in question uses a private stall [often] with little issue. This has been the way it is since time immemorial.

        Being transgender does not guarantee perversion – my inner misandrist would insist this to be a distinctive feature of damaged men, wih few exceptions.

        • Gary

          You are right that perverts are all around. I wish there was a way to identify them that would make it obvious to all.

          Transgenders are perverts, as are all homosexuals.

          • Astral Atheist

            Well. That’s, like, your opinion, man.

          • Gary

            And, it has the added benefit of being true.

          • The Celestial Teapot

            Do you actually know any trans people?

          • Gary

            No.

          • The Celestial Teapot

            So you are commenting on something you have absolutely no knowledge or experience of? Thought so.

          • crg1960

            He might, without knowing they are. 🙂

      • Christopher Steven Jenkins

        Perverts are molesters. Perverts are bad people. Gay and trans people are not perverts. Why do you hate people so much? I will pray for you, Gary.

      • Lisadoll

        Well then, pee fast and keep moving.
        Or hold it til YOU get home, since that’s what you’re advocating.

      • Lisadoll

        Are you the same people who voted for Donald Trump?
        THATS what I not understand.
        Perhaps you should look up the definitions of ” pervert ” and “sexual predator ” , and quit worrying about people peeing.

    • Autrey Windle

      We notice. In case YOU don’t know, predator men will use the allowance of this behavior to rape and conduct voyeur activity or perhaps you already know this firsthand…

      • Christopher Steven Jenkins

        No evidence for this claim. “Predator men” can already sneak into bathrooms, it isn’t that hard. Be honest about what this is really about: you’re not okay with different people. Hide behind the stupid “safety” issue all you want, but there’s no evidence to suggest that fear is warranted. You’re just a bigot.

      • Christopher Steven Jenkins

        sneaking into a bathroom and committing a crime is ….. already a crime.

      • Lisadoll

        THAT IS LUDICROUS.
        There’s a predatory man in the White House.
        Why don’t you spend your time doing something about what exists, instead of worrying about what does not?
        The subject matter is simply urination.

      • Lisadoll

        Your president is a sexual predator. Have you heard the audio tape of him on the bus?
        Get real. You are prejudiced, judgmental, and justifying it by using faulty , ridiculous logic , which you are probably parroting from someone else. Apparently, you think that is okay because your president does THAT , also.
        It’s mortifying that there are SO MANY Un thinking followers in this country, WHO KNEW?!

  • llew jones

    There’s a bit more to it than where one chooses to have a wee. The 8 headings below are from THE AMERICAN COLLEGE OF PEDIATRICIANS article Gender Ideology Harms Children. There are a few paragraphs of explanation
    with some of the headings that are worth reading. Don’t think the Stream allows me to cite the address but I found it
    using the ACOP and citing transgender (citing GIHC should do it for you ).

    Gender Ideology Harms Children

    Updated January 2017

    The American College of Pediatricians urges healthcare professionals, educators and legislators to reject all policies
    that condition children to accept as normal a life of chemical and surgical impersonation of the opposite sex.
    Facts – not ideology – determine reality.

    1. Human sexuality is an objective biological binary trait: “XY” and “XX” are genetic markers of male and female, respectively – not genetic markers of a disorder.

    2. No one is born with a gender. Everyone is born with a biological sex. Gender (an awareness and sense of
    oneself as male or female) is a sociological and psychological concept; not an objective biological one.

    3. A person’s belief that he or she is something they are not is, at best, a sign of confused thinking.

    4. Puberty is not a disease and puberty-blocking hormones can be dangerous.

    5. According to the DSM-V, as many as 98% of gender confused boys and 88% of gender confused girls eventually
    accept their biological sex after naturally passing through puberty.

    6. Pre-pubertal children who use puberty blockers to impersonate the opposite sex will require cross-sex
    hormones in late adolescence. This combination leads to permanent sterility. These children will never be able to conceive any genetically related children even via artificial reproductive technology. In addition, cross-sex hormones
    (testosterone and estrogen) are associated with dangerous health risks including but not limited to cardiac disease,
    high blood pressure, blood clots, stroke, diabetes, and cancer.

    7. Rates of suicide are nearly twenty times greater among adults who use cross-sex hormones and undergo sex
    reassignment surgery, even in Sweden which is among the most LGBTQ – affirming countries.

    8. Conditioning children into believing a lifetime of chemical and surgical impersonation of the opposite sex
    is normal and healthful is child abuse.

    • The Celestial Teapot

      The ACP is not a credible source. It is an anti-gay advocacy group, so perhaps not entirely unbiased in this matter. A better source would be the AAP with 60,000 members (vs ACP’s 500), wouldn’t you agree?

      • Dean Bruckner

        No I wouldn’t. Eugenics and slavery were very popular, segregation too. Argumentum ad populam = logic error ==> you lose.

        • The Celestial Teapot

          Oh dear, you’re not very good at this are you? My argument is based on authority (not popularity) and that authority comes from empirical knowledge that is falsifiable, observable and repeatable. But hell, you’re someone who thinks that the political, quasi religious ramblings of 900 people trump hard scientific fact so I can hardly expect you to understand that.

      • llew jones

        I’m an Australian and I live in Australia and could have quoted Aussie psychiatrists associations that

        come to similar conclusions. I used that American association of pediatricians for more relevance to the mostly American readers who comment on the various Stream articles.

        What I have noticed is that activists of the LGBTQ variety (but surprisingly most of the activists seem to
        be homosexuals) have attacked professionals in various professional organizations who “transgress”

        and have been able to have offending professionals removed as spokespersons from those

        organizations.

        If you check all the ACOF leaders listed, as I did, you will find all have medical degrees attached to

        their names. Though they may have some biases about certain life styles I would trust them far above

        any association that has been forced to dismiss staff and change their “science” to appease activists
        from the homosexual community.

        Here in Australia same sex marriage is still not legal. Our last Prime Minister , whose sister is a lesbian, was opposed to SSM on the grounds that it was not fair dinkum marriage and had proposed a national plebiscite on SSM which was passed by his and the present governing party. Many conservative
        members of the Federal Parliament and of course quite a few Christian organization are still agitating

        for the present PM to hold the plebiscite ASAP. The gay community strongly opposes a vote by the

        people and are pressuring members of parliament to accept their position and then to have a vote by

        the parliamentarians only. It seems they not only attack science they don’t like but also a democratic

        vote by the people.

        I have often wondered why, say, homosexual men identify themselves with transgender persons.
        Do they (you) think they (you) also suffer from a confusion of their (your) sexual identity?

        I notice a few homosexual men are involved in the comments on this article and one in particular seems
        to be a lover of science. I’m sure this is not found in the bible but it does seem to me that homosexuals who practice their understanding of science regularly get entrances and exits confused. Maybe their problem is not so much religion as their potentially dangerous misunderstanding of science?

        • The Celestial Teapot

          Let’s stay on topic eh?

          If you want to believe a small group of religiously informed extremists over a highly respected group representing 99.9% of experts in the field who support their positions with scientific facts, then go right ahead but don’t think anyone is duty bound is take it seriously.

          Do you have any evidence for your astonishing claim that the AAP ‘has been forced to dismiss staff and change their “science” to appease activists from the homosexual community’? Thank you.

    • Autrey Windle

      I firmly believe and would hope that lawyers may be able to prove, that giving children these drugs and inhibitors and so forth to children constitutes a whole new realm of child abuse. We are going to be very busy protecting children from now til the end of times. Saddle up/let’s ride.

    • Christopher Steven Jenkins

      I will acknowledge that as a supporter of trans rights there obviously are side effects and consequences of hormone therapy and surgery. This is why it’s important for the family and doctors to get together and discuss what is best in any given situation. Many trans people have no surgery and do not take hormones.

  • Jayanne Stan

    What I do not understand is the fact that we have to agree with their delusions and if we do not then we are discriminating against them and thereby penalised with a fine. I heard that in some states there is a penalty fine for not referring to a transgender man or woman by the sex they say the want to adopt If a man dresses as woman (or visa versa) and you refer to him/her as HE or she then you are violating his/her rights and therby a fine is imposed, if he is not encouraged in his/her delusions. If he or she wants to refer to himself as a fire engine then thats his/her perogative but why should i be expected to agree with him. I dont have to join him coocoo land. If he wants to live there he has a perfect right to do so. But do not force me to join him there.

    • Merry Morris

      Exactly..he is a drag queen

    • Dean Bruckner

      Yep. $250,000 fine is possible for each offense in NYC. Search for “NYC human rights commission transgender” and read it from the official source.

      • Christopher Steven Jenkins

        I have read about this and what you’re saying is misleading. ordinary citizens aren’t being jailed or fined for this

    • Jim Walker

      where is that freedom of speech then ?
      I can’t imagine from just 2, we now have 50+ and growing genders.

      • Christopher Steven Jenkins

        You have freedom of speech. What do you want to say that you can’t? There are not 50 plus genders. How hard is it to just be respectful of a fellow human being and address them as they wish to be addressed?

    • Dena

      I work for the federal government and we had to go through transgender training. We were told if we have a problem with a man using a women’s bathroom- to find our own bathroom. We also have to watch our pronouns and speech. We have to use the pronouns a person chooses, we can’t imply someone isn’t born gay or transgender (they claim this is fact without any scientific proof), we can’t imply their is a gay agenda, they also gave us a list of words we cannot say. If we do any of these things, we can be reported. I feel this infringes on my freedom of speech, thought, religion and morality. Of course we should respect people and treat people decently, but I can’t lie and pretend someone is something they’re not just because it’s politically correct. It’s immoral.

      • Christopher Steven Jenkins

        Your freedom of speech and right to assemble is your god-given right as a US citizen. It does not extend to your workplace — your workplace has the right, govt agency or not, to regulate what is appropriate at work. Your freedom of speech isn’t being violated, that’s ridiculous. Maybe you don’t understand what freedom of speech means. You can’t lie. No one is asking you to lie. Trans people know what their own biological sex is. Gender is different. That’s what you people don’t understand. Gender and sex are SEPARATE. No one is asking you to like, under oath, swear that a trans woman is biologically female. We know that she is biologically male. But that’s really none of your business, and gender — which is the way in which we identify and therefore act in society — is more important.

        • Paul

          The lie is that gender is different, but I congratulate liberals on successfully getting many to believe your lies.

          • Christopher Steven Jenkins

            Look it up. Gender can be used to refer to biological sex but is more often used to describe social interactions as well as masculine, feminine, and neuter words in linguistics. Biological sex IS different from the way someone feels in their head — whether or not you agree with trans people’s lifestyles doesn’t matter — this is true. When I refer to gender I refer to what is going on in the person’s head, which is separate from their biological sex. You’re making it seem like I’m using some Orwellian technique to defer from the truth when I’m literally describing two different things. You can believe that being trans is wrong — but it would be factually incorrect not to acknowledge the distinction I’m making between gender and sex.

          • Paul

            Yes, I understand there are languages that use male and female gender, but in the context of people, we are born either male or female (save the few with serious genetic diseases). It’s refreshingly honest of you to admit this trany condition is all in a persons head, it takes the genetics nonsense off the table.

            A man who thinks he is a woman is mentally disturbed, no different than if I decided I am a dog and started walking around on all fours naked and peeing on lamp posts.

            So if as you say all you’re talking about is what’s going on in a persons mind then you admit tranys are actually insane because they believe to be something they are not and actually need psychological treatment as opposed to coddling the illness and perpetuating the delusion with surgery, pharmaceuticals and legislation that forces the rest of society pretend the delusion is real.

      • Lisadoll

        Madam.
        NOBODY can “infringe on YOUR morality”. Morality describes your personal behavior .
        Similarly, no one can infringe on your thoughts.
        There is no “gay agenda”.
        You work for the federal government. You MUST uphold the constitution.
        You can choose to work for YOURSELF, then you can say, or do, or pee whatever nonsense you want.
        You chose to work for the government.

  • Merry Morris

    Totally agree…time will show you have been conned …not me, the whole family are CONS…freaks….great article especially the scientific research

  • Paul Prescott

    As a liberal deeply invested in individual liberties, I’m obviously not the intended audience for this article and, judging from the one-sided comments talking about mental illness, you have definitely found your audience. I’m just surprised Google placed this website on my homepage and I’ll be blocking it in the future. I just wanted to let you know that not everyone agrees with your hard-hearted, petty and mean observations about how people different from you choose to live their lives.

    Let, the hating begin…

    • Ken Abbott

      Says the man who uses a mocking image of Jesus as his avatar.

    • Gary

      You could have stopped after you said you are a liberal. We could guess what would follow.

      • Astral Atheist

        I’m happy to disrupt that stereotype. I’m liberal myself, and truly value individual freedom. That said, Jenner is clearly a man, but I believe “she” is free to call herself whatever she wants. Rachel Dolezal, too. I don’t care. Obviously, they are both objectively incorrect, but such is the way with deeply held personal truths.

        I also believe in the freedom of differing opinions without it being called bigotry. You right-wing folks can disagree with the transgender lifestyle (up to legitimate hate-speech), just do not force your beliefs on others via legislation (or some version of Sharia). THAT is unacceptable in a free society.

        The left’s bizarre biology-denying obsession with gender/sex is our version of climate-change denial. We deny any evidence that doesn’t fit our ideology. Almost like a religion… how strange.

        I wish we would all drop the ideologies and acknowledge objective reality. Humans are causing climate change, women don’t have penises and the emperor has a terrible spray tan.

        • Gary

          The laws are going to reflect the beliefs of someone. And they are going to either be moral, or immoral. Obama, and most liberals, including those on the Supreme Court, tried to force the acceptance of homosexuality, same-sex marriage, and transgenderism on the nation. Granted, some people did not have to be forced but accepted those things willingly. But there are many of us who won’t accept them. I don’t care if some people want to pretend they are “married”, or that they are the sex they are not, but I refuse to obey any government edict that tries to legitimize such nonsense and wickedness. We all want the laws to reflect what we want.

          • Astral Atheist

            You’re free to not accept their lifestyles, but any laws that prohibit their individual pursuit of happiness is un-American. Do you know what I mean? Let others live their lives and enjoy the same legal freedoms we have, i.e. marriage, personal identity, etc., so long as they don’t negatively affect yours.

          • DCM7

            The legal freedoms we have are real marriage and real personal identity. There is no right to call something “marriage” that deliberately and directly opposes what marriage is and what it stands for, and there is no right to be enabled in believing you’re something you’re not.

          • Astral Atheist

            Hmm. Well, “marriage” – unlike biology – is open to interpretation, to an extent. Define it as you’d like, but allow others the freedom to legally “marry” another person without addressing whatever semantic baggage persists in your personal/cultural worldview.

            Humans have been engaging in some sort of mating ritual/union since prehistory. The ceremonial/spiritual aspect is arbitrary in the long run – it’s the legal protections involved that must be offered to all, if only in principle at the very least.

          • Michael Gore

            So are you of the opinion “call yourself whatever you want, but don’t force me to call you what you want” when it comes to transgender individuals? It sounds so from your posts, so I’m interested in hearing your opinion on this issue.
            What do you think the solution is going to be for all of us who are Biblical Christians, operating under an entirely different authority and from a completely different worldview, who will not toe the line with the modern secular blurring of the sexes? After all, that’s what many (not all, but many) Christians are saying on this issue. If a Man wants to say he is a woman, he can say whatever he wants, but don’t expect or force me to agree with him. Yet it seems that activists within the LGBT community are not willing to adopt a live and let live stance. They seem to have conformity of belief as their ultimate goal, or at least a silenced opposition. Given that, what do you think the end result of all this is going to be?
            I’m interested in hearing your view because you seem to be uncharacteristically balanced and thoughtful in the responses you have been giving so far. I’m assuming you are an atheist/agnostic of some stripe (just assuming) and I don’t typically find that. Thanks!

          • Christopher Steven Jenkins

            No one is telling men not to be men and women not to be women, and no one is saying that biological sex is fluid, because we all know that it is not. What trans people are asking for is a modicum of respect for how they like to dress and be addressed. That’s all. Your “conformity of belief” argument is strange to me, because I wasn’t aware that logic and empathy were under attack (actually, I was aware that those two things were under attack, but I have a hard time accepting that fact).

          • Michael Gore

            “What trans people are asking for is a modicum of respect for how they like to dress and be addressed” – There may be some who feel this way, but the Transgender movement as a whole has continually been in support of policies that punish those who disagree with transgenderism. The problem is that most (not all) transgender people, like many others in the LGBT movement, and the left in general, think that love/respect and agreement are the same thing. So if a person does not agree with their views on these issues, it by default, irregardless of actions or words, makes the person unloving and hateful.
            You are welcome to call yourself whatever gender you wish, but have no right to demand that others do as well. Even less so to support any sort of action that marginalizes or punishes people who refuse to agree. There is no constitutional right to be respected or agreed with and it cannot be morally demanded of others.

          • Christopher Steven Jenkins

            I can only speak for myself, but I support your right to disagree with whatever you like. However this right doesn’t extend to say, workplaces. If your place of work has a policy that a trans person must be addressed as their preferred gender, they have the right to fire you if you don’t comply. In general though, in America, you can say what you want as long as it’s not fire in a crowded theater. If there are laws coming around that infringe your right to disagree with me I will fight against that.

          • Angelgirl54

            There’s not? So…I am not really an angel princess like I thought I was? (sarc) LOL
            One thing I do know and am sure of is, I AM the daughter of a King. Praise the Lord!

          • Gary

            Everyone can have the same legal freedoms I have. No problem. But I should not have the legal freedom to marry someone of the same sex, or use the women’s restroom.

          • Christopher Steven Jenkins

            then don’t marry a guy. get over it.

          • Christopher Steven Jenkins

            You have the right not to personally acknowledge any gay marriage and you have the right to believe it is wrong. However, in America, we have equal rights for all. You don’t get to decided what is best for another person when it doesn’t affect your life. No one is making you get gay married and no one is making your church perform gay weddings. Marriage, as far as the government is concerned, is nothing more than a contract to which anyone is entitled. As far as your church is concerned, they can define it as a spiritual union or whatever they like — but that is not the governments place. The governments job is to provide contracts without discriminating because this is America.

        • The Celestial Teapot

          Just wondering what special information you have that allows you to state ‘Jenner is clearly a man’ with such authority? Also, what is your experience in this field (for example, do you know any trans people or do you work with them?), or is this just more opinion masquerading as fact? Thanks.

          • DCM7

            Maybe you should explain how superficially modifying someone’s body constitutes a “sex change.” Does it change their DNA? Does it give them the necessary body parts so that they can now contribute to reproduction as their “new sex”?

            Yours is the position that needs defense. And the fact that it’s currently popular and “official,” and even endorsed by paid “experts,” is not nearly enough of one, given the clear facts that it flies in the face of.

          • The Celestial Teapot

            I don’t presume to know enough to comment with authority on other people’s private matters.

            What is your experience and training in this field that allows you to make these definitive judgements about people you have never met and to adjudge what the ‘facts’ are?

          • Astral Atheist

            I would dare say that a cursory knowledge of biology is all you need to establish an objective view on this matter. People can express themselves any way they want to as individuals, but this does not change the facts of sexual dimorphism.

          • The Celestial Teapot

            And perhaps that’s the problem: your ‘cursory knowledge of biology’ isn’t sophisticated enough to understand that nuance exists in this field.

          • Astral Atheist

            Very possibly the case. I am not a biologist, but will defer to that field as my opinion evolves. Feel free to inform me, in earnest.

            As it stands, I do not find value in subjective social theories, or any other religion. Otherkin are not their preferred identities either – biologically – but they are free to express themselves as they will.

            Jenner is a man who identifies as a gender; more power to her. Does not redefine biology.

          • The Celestial Teapot

            The thing is that gender and sexuality are about more than biology and having trans friends as you do, I’m surprised you aren’t aware of that….

          • Astral Atheist

            BIOLOGY. My position is that one’s biology has not changed, despite identifying as a different gender. My male to female friends are still biologically male, but I will always refer to them as ‘she’, as per their preference.

          • The Celestial Teapot

            Well, with respect I don’t really care about your position because you are not an expert in this field. I am more interested in what actual experts say and it seems to me that they largely disagree with your position that biology / genitalia is the only driver of gender identity.

            But well done you for being so generous and patronising to your friends. A bit of virtue-signalling?!

          • Christopher Steven Jenkins

            Who is saying that it redefines biology? I don’t think anyone. Gender, which is how we interact in society (that’s usually how the word gender is used now), is much more of a spectrum than biological sex, although biological sex has some grey areas in intersex folks. You are arguing that people are trying to deny science which I don’t think is what is happening here. A trans woman will always have her chromosomes from birth, but that’s not relevant to your interaction with them in daily life unless you are their medical doctor or want to have a child with them.

          • Dean Bruckner

            No it doesn’t. Sexual dimorphism is the most salient fact in all of biology. You are suppressing the truth to tell lies.

          • The Celestial Teapot

            ‘Sexual dimorphism is the most salient fact in all of biology’ Evidence please.

            ‘You are suppressing the truth to tell lies.’ Evidence please.

          • The Celestial Teapot

            Pseudo-science? Really? From the Wiki entry on Hermaphroditism:

            Intersex describes a wide variety of combinations of what are considered male and female biology. Aside from having an ambiguous-looking external genitalia, true intersex in humans differs from pseudohermaphroditism in that the person’s karyotype has both XX and XY chromosome pairs (46XX/46XY, 46XX/47XXY or 45X/XY mosaic). Some people who are intersex have both testicular and ovarian tissue. One possible pathophysiologic explanation of this rare phenomenon is a parthenogenetic division of a haploid ovum into two haploid ova. Upon fertilization of the two ova by two sperm cells (one carrying an X and the other carrying a Y chromosome), the two fertilized ova are then fused together resulting in a person having dual genitalial, gonadal (ovotestes) and genetic sex.

            Another common cause of being intersex is the crossing over of the SRY from the Y chromosome to the X chromosome during meiosis. The SRY is then activated in only certain areas, causing development of testes in some areas by beginning a series of events starting with the upregulation of SOX9, and in other areas not being active (causing the growth of ovarian tissues). Thus, testicular and ovarian tissues will both be present in the same individual.’

          • Astral Atheist

            No argument here. Jenner is not a hermaphrodite or intersex, though, nor is this within the scope of our specific thread. Intersex people are an extreme minority, objective though their unique biology may be, but the majority of transgender-identifying people are still – biologically – their unalterable genotype from birth.

            I’ve gotten hung up on this argument, as I’ve seen so many “transtrender” folks who push this fallacious argument that they’ve somehow transformed into another biological entity, complete with physiological mysteries yet to be discovered. I admit this may be a straw man of sorts, as I know there are better arguments than what I’ve just referred to, but nonetheless, this is what I see put forth in pop culture activism online. I don’t think this is healthy to promote so freely – especially with young people who may be indoctrinated into making permanent body alterations that will greatly detract from their quality of life in the future, should they regret their decision.

            One of my closer trans friends is quite outspoken about waiting until adulthood for surgical/hormonal transitioning, unlike the potentially reckless enthusiasm behind encouraging children to transition at earlier and earlier ages.

            I may be wrong. I am open to that. But at this point, I find myself very skeptical to the arguments I’ve been hearing in the “penis is a social construct” type discussions.

          • Christopher Steven Jenkins

            Nobody is saying they have changed their biological sex. No trans person says they have changed their biological sex. You are creating some kind of narrative that doesn’t exist in the real world. Gender is a social construct and it is fluid; biological sex is not fluid, and no one is arguing that it is. GUH.

          • The Celestial Teapot

            You were making the point that sexual dimorphism is an absolute, and that other views are pseudo-science. I was making the point that’s not the case.

          • Astral Atheist

            Has penis; is biologically male under all that surgery, makeup and hormones. I’ll call her a woman, though, I don’t care. Same with Dolezal or Sean King – you’re black? OK. Not my place to tell them how to live their lives.

            I do know and am friends with a number of trans folk. Some have happily transitioned, while others are still struggling with deep psychological issues [seemingly] not related to gender dysphoria. I respect them as individuals and do not challenge their identities, though I am obviously skeptical of pop-culture gender trends and pseudoscience.

          • The Celestial Teapot

            So no information at all. Thought so. How arrogant for you to think you know better than a trans person what they are experiencing.

            The APA and AMA recognizes that gender and sexuality are not binary as you would like to think. All those pesudo-scientists eh?

          • Astral Atheist

            I don’t care about nor define their subjective experiences – sexual dimorphism exists objectively.

          • The Celestial Teapot

            Indeed it does, but you are deducing from that only two gender options are possible. I think that’s where you’re getting stuck: conflating gender, sexuality and genitalia.

          • Dean Bruckner

            We’re not conflation; you are fantasizing.

          • The Celestial Teapot

            I didn’t say you were conflation, I said you were conflating, which you obviously are whether you care to admit it or not.

    • DCM7

      I’m sorry that clear, simple truth sounds “hard-hearted, petty and mean” to you. Truth is usually tough, but it’s kinder when you’re not fighting against it.

      • The Celestial Teapot

        Do you have evidence that this article is ‘clear, simple truth’? If not, then you should acknowledge that this article is the opinion of one person who has no expertise in the field whatsoever. If you want to conflate opinion with truth then go ahead, but don’t expect others to.

        • DCM7

          The article itself gives evidence to back up its points. At least one comment below gives further evidence.

          Dismissing unpopular truth as “just someone’s opinion” is a common and cheap debate tactic. So is implying that the unpopular truth doesn’t have support from those with “expertise.” Sorry, but those things cannot diminish the reality of what the article points out.

      • Christopher Steven Jenkins

        Jenner’s biological sex is XY, or male. No one is denying that truth. No one. We are just saying that if she wishes to be in society in a dress, there’s no reason not to let her. Her biological sex hasn’t changed, but the way she feels inside is simply visible. How does it affect you if a trans woman is open in society? It doesn’t. What objective truth am I denying???

    • Dean Bruckner

      Protecting women and girls is love, not hate. You are spiritually blind. Bottom line: someone who believes abortion is a good thing will believe anything. A person who commits an abortion can do anything.

      • Christopher Steven Jenkins

        This discussion has nothing to do with abortion. Protecting women and girls from what? People who want to use the restroom in peace? Zero cases of trans people commiting crimes in any public bathroom. Period. If people who pretend to be trans go into a restroom and commit a crime, that’s already illegal. Indecent exposure is already illegal. So is sexual assault. Trans people having the right to use their preferred bathroom has no bearing on a man’s ability to sneak into a women’s restroom — it could happen today and it could have happened 30 years ago. To the extent that you want to talk about protecting women and girls, I’m game for having a productive discussion about what we can actually do to prevent sex crimes, but surely you must realize that preventing trans people from using the restroom doesn’t even factor in to that discussion. Trans people don’t assualt people in restrooms and are the ones who have been terrified of public restrooms for years because THEY are often victims of crimes. There are stalls in restrooms. Women’s restrooms don’t have urinals. What exactly are people so afraid of if a trans woman wants to use the restroom — newslash — trans women have been doing it for years and no one cared, but it’s recently become an issue because people want to take their rights away without reason. There were never problems before when you didn’t know they were doing it — most trans people are passing for their gender and you probably didn’t even notice they were using the bathroom with you.

    • Jim Walker

      Paul
      Just because the people here believes there are only 2 genders, a man and a woman, and that equates to hate ?
      To be fair if the person is truly gay, and dresses like a woman and use the restroom for his emergencies, I’m still OK with it.
      However, there will be perverts that will take advantage of the law and do perverted things.

      The laws of the land cannot serve 100%. But to change it to serve the 0.3% and inconvenience 99.7% is crazy.
      And you open the doors for people to abuse it.

      What your mind thinks is what you are ? If this is your reasoning, then a person can be a stool, and if you disagree with them, Ohh.. you are a bigot, stoolophobic, xenophobic. and to them you ARE the One-sided as well.
      Yes we want to help others to address their mental problems.

  • alli

    100% agree. Very respectful piece. Very clear and to the point. You spoke for a lot of people and I appreciate it.

  • Gary

    All “transsexuals” are pretending to be what they are not, and never can be. Therefore, they are liars, in addition to being perverts.

    • The Celestial Teapot

      Do you know any trans people?

      • Gary

        No. Neither do I wish to.

        • The Celestial Teapot

          I’m sure the feeling is mutual Gary.

          So you have never met one, nor want to, and yet you speak with such authority about what they are and how they think and behave. Do you not realize how silly that makes you look? The next time I want a totally uninformed opinion I’ll look you up.

          • Michael Gore

            Unfortunately Gary is a bit of a local Troll here, please do not take him too seriously.

          • Christopher Steven Jenkins

            I figured! It’s okay, I ain’t scared but i’ll stop engaging with him it’s not worth it. I wonder what church he goes to?

          • Gary

            My opinion is VERY informed. I know a pervert when I see one. You included.

          • Christopher Steven Jenkins

            You’re disgusting. You know a pervert? How? Perverts are molesters and sex abusers — not trans or gay people. Not the same thing. I feel sorry for you.

          • Gary

            According to the Bible, homosexuals are perverted. Feel sorry for yourself. You are the one of us that is going to Hell.

          • Christopher Steven Jenkins

            Fortunately, I don’t let the Bible, which is full of inaccuracies and strange rules (no mixed fabrics, no shellfish) dictate my life. So your standard doesn’t apply to me. But if you truly are a Christian, you would know that it is wrong to judge and that only God knows who is going to hell and heaven. The fact that you’re telling me I’m going to hell rather than trying to save me, which should, as a Christina, be your mission according to the Bible speaks volumes about the type of person you are. You are a hypocrite.

    • Christopher Steven Jenkins

      You are pretending to be what you are not: a good person.

      • Gary

        Prove it. Bet you can’t.

        • Christopher Steven Jenkins

          You’re doing a fine job proving it all by yourself!

  • Atina

    I totally agree with everything you have said! I have known several gay men as my closest of friends, and through socializing with them have also met transvestites and transexuals who have been surgically altered. None of my gay male friends ever told me that they were confused about themselves being male. They were sometimes more masculine and physically stronger than some straight men i know. I have moved away and don’t get to spend time with them any more as i am the mom of two busy early teens, but i can’t even imagine them now feeling much different than what you have described about all this. It is all so ridiculously stupid and only serves to divide us all further. Thank you for trying to educate very ignorant people, especially legislators who are making huge policy mistakes as we speak.

  • Astral Atheist

    Everyone here, please search YouTube to listen to transgender people who are themselves critical of the religion of gender studies. You will find more nuance than the mainstream left. Try for: Blair White or Therein Meyer.

    • Gary

      No need to waste time doing any research on the subject. I already know the truth.

      • Astral Atheist

        Gary. Come on man. That’s a very stubborn way to interact with the world.

        Just check them out – it’s important to inform oneself on a variety of perspectives concerning an issue with which you are so outspoken. They are refreshingly critical on these issues, instead of the usual groupthink you may be expecting otherwise.

        • Gary

          No. I have no interest in studying perverts.

        • Christopher Steven Jenkins

          Gary doesn’t like facts, he is not worth engaging with and he lacks empathy. Not worth it 🙁

  • Jamie D. Woods

    The article doesn’t account for hermaphrodites, people with XXY chromosomes, botched circumcision that ended up in gender reassignment surgery, etc. It’s not just a “mental problem” that most people think it is. You think transgender people WANT to be transgender? Do you know how long they fought themselves, fought to fit in, fought to be comfortable in their own skin, only to fail time and again for their whole lives?

    • Astral Atheist

      Excellent point.

      • Autrey Windle

        balderdash!

        • Astral Atheist

          Gadzooks!

    • Alfred Dunn

      The article is not about hermaphrodites or the non-existent ” botched circumcision that ended up in gender reassignment surgery” that you wish to include. It is about an unhealthy individual who is unable to cope with reality.

    • DCM7

      No, I don’t think transgender people want to be transgender. The problem is, our society is sending them on the wrong fight. Instead of fighting against what’s wrong inside, they’ve been taught to fight for it. Even when they know to fight against what’s wrong inside, they’re not being helped or encouraged to do so.

      • Angelgirl54

        I knew someone whose 6 year old grandson was playing allot with little girls his age as there were no little boys his age around. He would play house and then was caught playing with dolls and dress up…(high heels). She sat with him, took off the high heels, took away the dolls and taught him how to play a DADDY, a man going to work, etc. Now he is a well adjusted 13 year old BOY. ALL boy. It’s amazing the things we can and should do to stop this in our children. Confusion? Only because some parents help that confusion along instead of helping to set things right and as they should be.

        • wisdomcries

          So true! yet parents indulge and reinforce the behavior and allow a child to dictate what the parent does because, in their mind, it is loving to do so.
          I wonder if these same parents let their children decide for themselves what and when to eat, what time to go to bed and get up, if they want to go to school or clean up their rooms etc..after all it would not be very loving to force these children to ‘conform’
          Yet they applaud and encourage a child that thinks it is cool to be the opposite sex.
          When my daughter was in high school I asked her friends what they thought of the whole gay,trans stuff. I asked how much of it was because it was cool to do so and you got special attention and privileges? They said that pretty much all of it.

          I would add that lack of direction from parents caused a void and something will fill that void.

        • Christopher Steven Jenkins

          This is very sad. There is nothing wrong with a boy playing with girls or traditionally girl toys and vice versa. It doesn’t make him gay. It means he’s an open-minded child. It’s very sad that childrens’ imaginations are being stifled.

      • The Celestial Teapot

        Who says trans people are ‘wrong inside’ and what evidence are they presenting in support of that claim?

        • Michael Gore

          If the body is physically fixed as either male or female (chromosomes and plumbing), and the mind is changeable, who in their right mind is going to say that the mind is right and the body is wrong? If a person with a male body thinks they are a woman, the problem is with the mind, not the body. You can’t change the body.
          The closest parallel I can think of is Anorexia. The Anorexic has an improper perception of their body in their mind. The body is fine but the person believes the body is not the correct weight. To encourage a person to mutilate their body via so called “sex-change operations” rather than try to help them fix the mind is no different than encouraging someone with anorexia to continue to lose weight rather than try to fix the problem with their mind.
          Just look at post-op trans-gender patients. Depression and suicide rates remain relatively the same. It’s not helping them.

          • The Celestial Teapot

            Michael this is just your opinion. What hard evidence do you have that your opinion is correct? And what training or experience do you have that should lead us to view your opinion is worth listening to?

            If someone who is a woman was born with male genitalia, how do you know their body is ‘right’ and their brain ‘wrong’? Just because we can observe genitalia and not processes in the brain does not automatically mean that the body is ‘right’ and the brain ‘wrong’.

            Surely this complex, highly personal issue is best left to the individual and their medical team and family? Why do you feel the need to impose your views on someone when you have no expertise in the field, you don’t know the individual and you are not affected by their choice in the slightest?

          • Michael Gore

            Every question you ask there can be turned upon your own position with more devastating effect. What training or experience do YOU have and what hard evidence do you bring to bear that would be adequate to create out of thin air this notion that we should completely abandon the FIXED and certain nature of the physicality of Male and Female in the body, and instead rely upon the feelings and preferences of the human mind, which time and time again prove to be unreliable. After all, it’s just their opinion after all, right?
            You would ask us to look at a person who is physically a man, and call them a woman, despite lacking all the necessary attributes that make someone a female, merely because they report to us that they feel they are. It seems to me that you should be the one providing actual evidence and reasoning, rather than telling us how mean we are for not agreeing. To even make the statement that there is a thing such as a “woman born with male genitalia” shows the incoherence of your thinking on this issue.
            People who push the transgender viewpoint are not helping those they claim to champion, any more than I would be said to be helping an anorexic by buying her weight loss medicine rather than helping her seek the proper medical attention and counseling.

          • Christopher Steven Jenkins

            The point is that all of the experts who actually study this disagree with you, Michael. So I’ll throw the same question back at you: how are you qualified to make these statements when actual experts who spend their lives studying these things completely disagree with you? Sex is absolutely not fixed and certain — many sex attributes change during lifetimes (hormones, etc) and are in flux, and the existence of intersex people negates the idea the sex is fully binary.

          • Michael Gore

            First, it is false to say that all of the experts disagree with anchoring of the sex of a person in the physicality of the body.

            Second, What I am claiming is that the maleness or femaleness of a person being a physical attribute is not something that requires degrees and a lab coat to understand. It is an obvious thing that any person can observe. If someone wants to come along and contest something that is and has been obvious they had better bring some actual evidence. So far the argument merely amounts to desire=reality. As I have said, people are free to think whatever they want, but it is not warranted to use force of law to make others agree with them.

            When you say that “the existence of intersex people negates the idea the sex is fully binary” you are employing circular reasoning. You are starting out with the conclusion smuggled in already. You have to actually show that a person who believes they are female when they posses a male body somehow negates the physical sex categories. I am not interested in public policy that changes based upon how people feel, especially when there are often serious and damaging repercussions involved.

          • The Celestial Teapot

            The difference Michael is that I am not making any claims, you are. As such it is incumbent on your to provide evidence in support of those claims. So again, what qualifications or evidence do you have that make your claim credible? None, it seems.

            OTOH I have the humility to recognise my lack of expertise, and so I turn to science and the people who work in this field to see what they say. What they say is that gender identity is not always coherent with the genitalia someone is born with. I’ll take their view over yours because theirs is supported by knowledge and expertise whereas yours is just a personal opinion.

            Even your foundational claim – ‘the FIXED and certain nature of the physicality of Male and Female in the body’ – is wrong. Please refer to the ‘Human’ part of the Wiki entry on Hermaphroditism – this page doesn’t allow links.

            You may also be wrong about the outcomes of current treatment protocols ‘not helping those they claim to champion’. Two recent studies (Olson KR, Durwood L, DeMeules M, et al. ‘Mental Health of Transgender Children Who Are Supported in Their Identities’. Pediatrics. 2016;137(3):e20153223 and ‘Approach to Children and Adolescents with Gender Dysphoria’ Lopez et al, Pediatrics in Review March 2016, VOLUME 37 / ISSUE 3) show ‘Socially transitioned transgender children who are supported in their gender identity have developmentally normative levels of depression and only minimal elevations in anxiety, suggesting that psychopathology is not inevitable within this group. Especially striking is the comparison with reports of children with GID; socially transitioned transgender children have notably lower rates of internalizing psychopathology than previously reported among children with GID living as their natal sex.’

          • Michael Gore

            That seems to be turning the issue on it’s head. You are saying that staying with position that male and female are determined by physical characteristics, which is a viewpoint that all if not nearly all of humanity has held for all recorded history is “making a claim” and when you bring in the viewpoint that it is not the physicality of one’s body but their mental perception that determines reality, that this is “not making a claim”.

            Have you read the expert opinion of Dr. Paul McHugh on this issue, here is a snippet:
            Dr. Paul R. McHugh, the Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry at Johns Hopkins University, and former psychiatrist-in-chief at Johns Hopkins Hospital who has studied transgenderism and sex-reassignment surgery for 40 years, said the condition is a “mental illness” and to enable it is equal to “collaborating with madness.”

            He has quite a bit to say on the issue, and would certainly qualify as an expert on the issue, but seems to conveniently be ignored by most on your side of this debate.

            As for your comment on Hermaphrodites, you are confusing categories here. The issue of the Hermaphrodite is a related but not parallel issue and we cannot say that because people who’s bodies (through defect) have sex parts for both sexes, then therefore that means that a man who thinks he is a woman is actually a woman. It’s a non-sequitur.

          • The Celestial Teapot

            Firstly, just because a lot of people have believed something for a long time doesn’t make it true. As our understanding of biology and the brain improves it stands to reason that old ideas will be supplanted by new knowledge. That’s how science works, really.

            Secondly, I mentioned hermaphroditism because it disproves your claim that gender is necessarily binary or even fixed.

            Thirdly, McHugh is a Catholic whose beliefs regarding sexuality are religiously- rather than scientifically- informed. He is a member of the ACP who are an anti-gay advocacy group. He opposes the DSM, denies that PTSD is real and argues homosexuality is a choice, despite reams of strong evidence contradicting those views. Few in the profession take him remotely seriously.

            Why do you have such strong and fixed ideas on a subject you know little about? What is the problem with recognising the simple fact that for a very small minority of people gender is not as simple as it is for others?

          • Michael Gore

            Its really quite funny but also a little tragic that you feel you can invoke “SCIENCE” on this issue when I am the one appealing to the physical nature of the subject (which science speaks to) and you are appealing to the immaterial mental and emotional state of the person. Can you show me scientifically how the thoughts or beliefs of a person can change ANYTHING in reality? If I stapled fuzzy ears to my head and ate nothing but carrots and lettuce, that would not make me a rabbit, no matter how much I wanted to be one.
            I find it interesting that you are wiling to write off the opinion of somebody who is an expert in their field related to this issue with the claim that they could not be scientifically informed because they are also religious (and happen to disagree with you). That seems rather bigoted and intolerant of you to do so, doesn’t it? Can a Christian not have a valid viewpoint on this issue unless they agree with you? This is the reason no meaningful conversation seems to take place, when one side is simply ignored or written off a priori. This whole conversation has been interesting and hopefully been useful to others, but it doesn’t seem very productive at this point. Thanks!

          • The Celestial Teapot

            A lot of logical fallacies and assumptions here…

            Firstly, ‘the physical nature of the subject’ (by which you presumably mean genitalia) is not the only ‘science’ at play here: neuro-science, genetics and psychology are also involved. Are they not sciences? That will be news to the scientists working in those fields!

            Secondly, your rabbit analogy is facile and a bit insulting to trans people, IMO. Why not do some reading on this subject and find out what trans people are really thinking and feeling rather than just make assumptions? Do you really think someone would ‘choose’ this?

            Thirdly, the ‘expert’ you quote is not considered to be an expert by others in the field. That’s why he is part of a group that is not recognised by the profession. I do not disagree with your expert because he is religious, but because his work has been refuted by others. If you cannot see his obvious bias, then perhaps you aren’t looking very hard.

            To summarize, you believe your personal opinion has as much validity as those who have spent their careers working in this field. I don’t. Good day.

    • Autrey Windle

      Hermaphrodites exist in less than .01% of population. Research and then get back to defending the indefensible if you think you can without facts in your favor. Your bleeding heart could better be of service if you helped these delusional folks by RESEARCHING what real help is available to help them love being who they were born to be.

      • Christopher Steven Jenkins

        What real help? Intersex people being only a small part of the population is besides the point. What should I research? If you have anything to share I will gladly read it. Forcing people to not be gay or to stop wanting to be trans has been shown time and time again to be not only ineffective but detrimental to mental health, and that is a fact. If there was a cure for being gay I’m pretty sure most kids would use it to avoid the stigma and pain of growing up different.

    • Ken Abbott

      Klinefelter syndrome (47, XXY) is not a form of transgenderism. Many affected men (for they are all physiological males) are asymptomatic and lead entirely normal lives.

      • Christopher Steven Jenkins

        they can’t reproduce. that’s a big deal.

        • Ken Abbott

          Sure, but there are many XY males who are infertile.

          • Christopher Steven Jenkins

            Yes but all XXY are always infertile. You’re correct, being XXY doesn’t automatically make you transgender, but I bring it up to point out that there biological sex is not fully binary, and that is an important thing to realize when we’re talking about people identifying as a gender they weren’t born as.

    • wisdomcries

      It also doesn’t account for conjoined twins, palm reading, black holes or why hot dogs come in packs of 10 and the buns in packs of 8.

      • Jim Walker

        hahaahaa…, this is funny !

      • Dean Bruckner

        Ball Park franks come in 8 packs. Intelligent design!

      • Dant e

        Life doesn`t always work out according to plan so be happy with what you`ve got, you can always get a hot dog. 😉

    • Kevin Carr

      Hermaphrodite are not common, you don’t turn things upside down for rarities. Bruce is a man in a dress. But in today’s parlance, gender is fluid, by what standard or objective characteristics is he female or the wrestler male? Did their attending doctors get the science all wrong at their births? Hermaphrodites have a condition at birth, usually their parents with doctors will guide them to a conclusion. Bruce and others are making a choice and then want to force accommodation of that choice on society. Huge difference.

      • Galena

        No it’s not a huge difference. It’s very similar actually. In the first case there is a physical difference that can be seen, in the second case there is a difference in their brains that can be studied. Both are scientific differences. Both are medical conditions. No one just chooses to be the opposite sex for fun despite what the obviously (not) well-educated person who wrote this article or most of the commentors think. Read the research.

        • Dena

          What about people struggling with alcoholism, bulimia, schizophrenia? Do we say they were born that way and must embrace that behavior? Gender disphoria is a mental illness. They are not born that way and it’s distructive to encourage someone to live a lie and to depart from reality.

          • Christopher Steven Jenkins

            While things like alcoholism can be genetic, this is in no way the same. Alcoholism, bulimia, and other things are detrimental to health. Being gay or trans is not inherently detrimental to health. It’s actually appalling that you’d compare apples to oranges in this way. They are born that way. Autistic kids are born that way too. Should they be killed? Should they not be allowed to exist? Should they not be put in special classes that will help them succeed and understand their autism? Your argument is soo sooo weak. Being trans is not destructive. What is destructive is attitudes similar to yours which help keep the trans kid suicide attempt rate at fifty percent. Thanks for doing your part to harm these kids, Dena.

          • Dena

            Where is the science that people are born with gender disphoria? I’ve read from studies that their is no scientific evidence that a person is born with a different gender while trapped in a different body. Look at the case study at John Hopkins University. Embracing the idea and encouraging people not to live in reality is harmful.

          • Christopher Steven Jenkins

            I am not really sure of the science on that, but I will tell you as a gay person I absolutely believe I was born this way, and I am familiar with the science on that. There’s a good Ted talk on it by someone who studies epigenetic. However I will admit that when it comes to gender dysphoria I am not sure to what extent it is present or measurable at birth, however the signs point to it being very much genetic, just like sexuality. I am open to discussion if you have any scientific literature that you’d like to share.

          • Dena

            The proper place to discuss science is out of scientific journals. News articles are full of opinions. When I post links – the post is usually blocked in disqus. There is a study that is published in the Journal The New Atlantis entitled “Sexuality and Gender findings from the biological, psychological, and social sciences”.

          • Christopher Steven Jenkins

            I will search for that article. I think this is a fine place to discuss science! Why not? We already are. The signs of gender dysphoria are present almost immediately from the time a child can form complete sentences. I do believe that it’s something you are born with in almost all cases — I will allow that it’s possible that symptoms could present themselves later in some people, but if you speak to trans people, as we all should if we’re trying to understand them, they will almost universally tell you that they deeply feel they were born in the wrong body and have felt that way as far back as they can remember.

          • Gary

            If pretending transgenders, or other homosexuals were good would stop all their suicides, I still wouldn’t do it.

          • Christopher Steven Jenkins

            What did a trans person or homosexual ever do to you ?

        • Kevin Carr

          Hermaphrodites are not making a choice. Still if gender is fluid the by what standard is this girl now or will be a boy? Are there any defining characteristics? What makes men and women different (antiquated terms)?

      • Christopher Steven Jenkins

        Hi Kevin — Gender is fluid, but biological sex is not. They are two completely separate things. Gender has to do with society and the way we interact, while biological sex is something that’s important to your doctor and to your partner if you want to have kids. What is the harm in addressing a person by the pronouns they prefer and being respectful of how they feel, choose to exist, and choose to love? I’m baffled as to why people have an issue with this. No one is saying that biological sex is fluid. No one. We are saying that it would be nice if people accepted that not everyone is the same and we like to express ourselves in different ways. The fact that this idea makes so many people uncomfortable is truly baffling to me.

        • Kevin Carr

          Then why take the hormones and or surgery?

          • Christopher Steven Jenkins

            not all do it’s a personal choice.

  • Roberto Deramo

    (caps for emphasis only)

    When that French FM coined the phrase We have 500 days to “avoid climate chaos” he was laying down a warning, actually bragging, to the World that in 500 days the switch will have been flipped and blind people will not be able to see the truth. Climate Chaos?? He ment HUMAN CLIMATE!!!!! Doubts? Take a look at your MSM, elected officials, and former elected officials whom are blinded by their lust for control….. AND how they have their controlled generation of University age people absolutely insane over “RESISTANCE”.

    All the points Dr. Brown makes about the speach & verbal comprehension there of made by these “blind” people is talking to a wall… or, singing to the choir. WE understand the true meaning of “Tolerance” but there in lies the fault…. these folks have been blinded, indoctrinated, and can not SEE the TRUTH…… and this will not change, it will only get WORSE!!!!! Don’t bother trying to “talk & reason” with these people, it can’t be done…. THEY do not have the capasity to do so.

    What we are seeing (no pun intended) in society & culture is BIBLICAL. Resist it, yes, but don’t fear it because it can not hurt you if you love GOD and are called for his purpose.

    Everyone said, “Nothing happened on 9-23-15” But they were dead wrong, they just didn’t recognize what really happened because like their ancestors they had a preconceived notion of the times.

    (caps intended!)
    GOD bless Ya’ll

    • Angelgirl54

      Amen…I have been saying to many that I believe the God has already sent His delusions to people so that they would believe the lies because they did not love the truth. That delusion will last all the way from now to the antichrist.

      You are spot on Roberto! Spot on!

  • Alfred Dunn

    A picture is worth a million words!

    • Page 48

      The dress makes the man.

  • wisdomcries

    No need to apologize for calling Bruce a guy.

  • Sari

    Ah, good, another middle-aged white man with no relevant experience telling us how it is and ought to be. Thank goodness.

    • Triple T

      Here’s another winning statement from an inclusive, tolerant, diversity loving liberal.

      • Christopher Steven Jenkins

        Sari is right though. The author clearly is not educated on the subject and has presumably never spoken to a trans person.

        • Triple T

          So why mention his demographics then? I thought that wasn’t supposed to matter to these people.

          • Christopher Steven Jenkins

            I can only speak for myself, but I’ve never said that demographics don’t matter. I think they are vital to realizing how we interact with one another and with society, and I think speaking with a trans person, whether your beliefs allow you to condone their lifestyle or not, is a good step to take to understand where they are coming from. It’s valid to point out that he’s a middle-aged white man because it speaks to the kind of experience he has likely had in this world. It doesn’t get into the specifics of who he is, but it’s a good jumping off point. Demographics matter.

          • Triple T

            Fine, then. Do either of you know the author? Do you know if he knows or speaks to any transgender people? If the answer to both questions is “no”, and I would bet that it is, what gives you the right to speak for him, assume what he does or does not know, and take him to task based on that alone?

          • Christopher Steven Jenkins

            I don’t, and I will not categorically say that he has never met a trans person. I don’t think it’s wrong to speculate, based on probability and common sense, that he probably hasn’t had much contact with trans people, but no, I will not say I know that for sure. I will say that it’s fairly obvious that he has not studied any of the science behind this though (most likely); I think he’s coming from a purely Biblical perspective. That’s fine, ’cause that’s his thing, but it’s not wrong to point out that he probably lacks an academic knowledge of the subject.

  • Christopher Brent

    Well, you mentioned “God” and you’re just a pot calling a kettle black.

  • Jack Thomas

    That a human being with such a dreadful mental health problem should be praised for his ‘courage’ lets normal people know how far, as a culture, America has degenerated. Particularly, when more than half of the country celebrates perversion of virtually any kind. I am glad that my forebears cannot see the proliferation of degenerates this country supports. Bruce Jenner needed support to turn his life around into a normal, well functioning human. Instead, the support he received encouraged him to accept his perverted thoughts, and turn himself into something nature and God never thought, or conceived of. Only man and his deranged mind could possibly have arrived at such a poor, unhappy creature, such as this thing, calling itself Katlyn. I encourage anyone else encountering a poor, misguided human, such as Bruce, to actually encourage mental health providers to try to heal their sick minds, instead of turning them into nature’s freaks.

  • RFrodsham

    Why on earth are you “Sorry?”

  • Dena

    I looked up what is sex change surgery. The world implies you can change your sex (as though this is easy and reality and can actually happen). Sex change surgery is an “illusion”. Both sexes don’t become functional male and female. And their parts don’t even become real parts. At first I thought it might be a transplant, but it’s not. It’s cosmetic surgery. On top of that a female transitioning into a male is not very successful. In some cases it’s a prosthetic in others they take tissue from your forearm and role it up to make it look like a male part. In both surgeries the part is fake. The doctors distroy a functioning part to make it appear the opposite sex. I’m sure their are other issues such as scarring, loss of function using the bathroom, etc. It also sounds not safe.

    Society is encouraging adults and kids to change their gender like it’s easy and safe. It’s not.

  • Kevin Carr

    Bet if I go in a store and try walking out with a cart full of stuff and tell them I identify as a paid customer, then people will start wanting to deal in reality. Would I have a case for discrimination if they called the cops?

    • Christopher Steven Jenkins

      You would have no case, and you would go to jail. Does that answer your question? Stealing is illegal, and so is sexual assault, indecent exposure, etc. Someone pretending to identify as a woman who is a man who goes and does something bad will be breaking the law and will be arrested. Trans rights don’t throw any laws out the window. It was illegal for a man to be inappropriate in a women’s restroom yesterday and it will be tomorrow. Trans people have committed exactly zero crimes in public restrooms.

  • Christopher Steven Jenkins

    Gender and biological sex are two completely different things. You absolutely cannot change your biological sex, but gender is a social construct. Please don’t conflate the two. Also, biological sex itself isn’t even binary; there are multiple intersex configurations such as XXY, etc. Caitlyn certainly isn’t an example for the trans community because she has money and power and has not experienced what most trans people experience, but calling her a man in a dress and then immediately praising yourself for your moral and religious superiority and feigned “love” is not love. It is not love. And whoever wrote this article needs to do some research. Fifty percent of trans kids try to kill themselves because society doesn’t accept them. Calling a trans woman a man in a dress is not helping. Like honestly, I’m over this bs. This article rails against people who think they can change their biology, but NO ONE is saying that biological sex is fluid; only gender is fluid. And why the hell do people care so much about how a person dresses or wishes to be addressed??? It’s so ridiculous. No one is saying “oh my biological sex is suddenly different” because it isn’t. Trans people are asking for respect. Biological sex is important if you want to have kids and it’s important to your doctor. If you’re not someone’s kid or doctor then their sex isn’t your business— let them dress how they wish and stop shaming them for being different. Period. Jesus hung out with the poor, prostitues, and criminals, and he only loved them. He didn’t say things like “man in a dress” which are purposefully inflammatory. This hypocrisy and thinly-veiled dislike of the other is mind-blowing when it’s done, supposedly, in the name of Jesus. Stop patting yourselves on the back for being hateful and pretending that you’re helping.

    • Kevin Carr

      Then why take the hormones and have surgery if you are not trying to alter your anatomy which is your biology. Jesus met with all kinds of people but if the lifestyle was in error he certainly said something about it, as did other gospel writers. Romans 1, Galatians 5 and others there was condemnation. Not being hateful, one problem with many that give approval to these various lifestyles is if any disagrees with you the first thing out of your mouth is “you’re a hater”. Who is patting themselves on the back for supposedly being hateful?

      • Christopher Steven Jenkins

        Not all trans people take hormones or have surgery. Your chromosomes cannot be changed, which is why I make the distinction between sex and gender identity. The Bible has a lot of passages that condemn many things, but I am not a Christian so I am not bound to these laws; I follow what I believe in my heart to be right, loving, and moral. The Bible says no to shellfish and mixed material fabrics but no one seems to care about that anymore. I don’t think you are hateful. I think this is an important discussion to have.

    • Gary

      It won’t work. You are not going to be able to convince rational people that it is legitimate for a person to want to be the opposite sex, or that opening restrooms and locker rooms to both sexes is a good thing, or that Jesus approves of perverts. So, all of your time and energy has been wasted.

      • Christopher Steven Jenkins

        I surely won’t be able to convince you, however I do not believe my efforts are pointless.

        • Gary

          Your efforts are pointless. And you are pointless.

    • BeantownBatwanger

      Gender is a grammatical term, and the English language has 3 genders – masculine, feminine, and neuter. Why doesn’t neuter get any recognition?

      • Christopher Steven Jenkins

        Exactly — english is one of the few major languages that doesn’t have a good neuter tense or words

    • Ofresh

      “Gender and biological sex are two completely different things”.what led you to this conclusion?

      • Triple T

        The fact that to him and his ilk, anything you want to be true is true.
        “It’s not a lie, if YOU believe it”.
        -George Costanza

        • Christopher Steven Jenkins

          Gender is usually used to describe social interactions. Gender is also a linguistic term which refers to masculine, feminine, and neuter words. Gender, in the way I’m using the word, means the way a person feels about how they want to express themselves. Science has shown that the brains of transgender people operate more like the opposite sex. So this is what I am referring to with gender. With biological sex, I am refer to your chromosomes. So yes, these are by definition two different things (although linguistically it would still be appropriate to use the word ‘gender’ to refer to biological sex, but that is not how I’m using it here). The point is not so much what words I am using, because that is a semantic issue, the point is what I’m talking about. And I am talking about the difference between your chromosomes and what is going on in your head. Now, whether or not you think it is RIGHT for someone to choose to dress as the biological sex which they aren’t is your business and your opinion, however, suggesting that I am making two things separate which are the same is false. The ideas I am talking about are not the same at all.

      • Christopher Steven Jenkins

        The dictionary? Gender is usually used to describe social interactions. Gender is also a linguistic term which refers to masculine, feminine, and neuter words. Gender, in the way I’m using the word, means the way a person feels about how they want to express themselves. Science has shown that the brains of transgender people operate more like the opposite sex. So this is what I am referring to with gender. With biological sex, I am refer to your chromosomes. So yes, these are by definition two different things (although linguistically it would still be appropriate to use the word ‘gender’ to refer to biological sex, but that is not how I’m using it here). The point is not so much what words I am using, because that is a semantic issue, the point is what I’m talking about. And I am talking about the difference between your chromosomes and what is going on in your head. Now, whether or not you think it is RIGHT for someone to choose to dress as the biological sex which they aren’t is your business and your opinion, however, suggesting that I am making two things separate which are the same is false. The ideas I am talking about are not the same at all.

  • Christopher Steven Jenkins

    And one more thing — I am SO SO SO tired of this false narrative that trans women are showing their penises to little girls. This is not something that is happening. All of the reasons people use to deny trans people rights — all of these false situations — are not actually happening. There is no such case. It is all hypothetical, wishy washy bs. Everyone wants to protect kids. ALL kids. I personally think locker rooms in schools aren’t cool; no one needs to feel like they have to be naked in front of other people. But the idea that somehow penises are being put on display for young girls is categorically false. It is not happening. There is not one single case of that happening, and no one — especially trans people — want that to happen. Trans people are the victims here. They are the ones who are attacked in restrooms. They are the ones who contemplate suicide because society doesn’t accept them. You are not protecting your young girls or your kids. You are pretending to love people while doing the exact opposite. Michael brown — please contact me so that we can have a dialogue.

    • Autrey Windle

      You know, or observing your continued use of divisive offensive-to-almost-anyone words maybe you don’t know, but if you are actually interested in anyone who doesn’t agree with your contempt, evidenced by your male anatomy laced and incensed tirade, listening to your point of view instead of your current assaulting behavior then you are going about your communication all wrong. Perhaps you are only interested in screaming about how superior you are, but that’s an overused tool in the radical’s toolbox. Alinsky is long ago outed as a liar and a bully and you will never change a single mind by following his dictates. Think for your self. Speak for your self. Maybe then someone who doesn’t agree already might hear you. ‘IF’ that is your desire. Maybe you just like to hear yourself scream and try to offend everyone who disagrees with you. I hope you wake up soon and begin to edit your self in an effort to be heard instead of disliked.

      • Christopher Steven Jenkins

        I am interested in having a discussion because I think it’s important. I do not believe I am superior to any other human being, but I do have passionate beliefs. I agree that there are probably more effective ways for me to communicate, and that is something that I need to work on. With that said — are there any specific points that I’ve made that you’d like to respond to so that we can have an actual discussion?

    • NG

      Sorry, you are misled. There has been plenty of instances where a man (claiming to be a woman) has assaulted women in the bathroom or shower… You can easily find news of them in the internet.

      • Triple T

        That is, if you bother to look and accept the fact that it happens, or can potentially happen. Two things he seems unable or unwilling to do.

        • Christopher Steven Jenkins

          I am willing to talk about things that can potentially happen and figure out how to solve any theoretical problems that may arise. The fact is: assault is already illegal, indecent exposure is already illegal, etc, etc, etc. So to the extent that we can talk about finding better ways to protect adults and children from sexual violence and violence in general, I will cooperate in that discussion. If a man walks into a restroom pretending to be trans when he isn’t and does something illegal, that is already a crime. And it isn’t something that just now became possible now that trans rights are at the forefront. A man could do this 10, 20, 50 years ago as well. It was illegal then and it is illegal now. Trans people have been involved in ZERO incidents of violence or sexual violence in bathrooms (as the perpetrators. they are actually disproportionately victims of these crimes, though).

      • Christopher Steven Jenkins

        Link me to any such stories, please. The number of trans people who have assaulted anyone in a restroom is still zero. Facts matter. However, I would love to be educated on these stories you speak of, so again, please link me and I will definitely read and respond to whatever you present. Thanks.

        • NG

          It will be some work to find these news, as I do not bookmark or collect every piece of news I come across. I will do my best, but in the meanwile you can also find some examples online if you do some searching.

        • NG

          There are plenty of such occurences in recent years, men trying to come to women’s shelters pretending to be trans women. Just watch Dr. Brown’s video of the topic, someone commented that it happened in her area.

    • Alyssa Generes

      What about the victims of abuse? Do we not matter? Due to my past, when I was in school (and a few years after I graduated) I was terrified of men. I was terrified of hearing their voices (even in the trans community some men have that deeper voice), or even the thought of one of them assaulting me. I don’t care how they identify, if I heard their voice I’d run out terrified. No one can just tell me he is a girl, to be accepting, ect. I had to get over my abuse in order to get better. Why should girls who dealt with things like that now be forced to share restrooms and showers with men when that used to be one of the few places we could feel at least a little comfortable? Plus, there are lots of dysphorias out there, but only this one do you all want to make normal. There are others which make people believe they should have no arm or leg and want to amputate it, but we give them mental health instead of actually amputating a limb. I believe trans people should just be given help. While that won’t cure everyone (mental problems are often best solved within – like my post abuse and all the mental issues I got after and still work on) it won’t normalize it and give them help. I believe like all other dysphorias this is the same.

  • Christopher Steven Jenkins

    Also if you have to use half of your article to explain why you’re not hateful you probably aren’t doing something right…. A true position of love does not need defense. Love has no exceptions, boundaries, or excuses.

    • Kevin Carr

      Love does have boundaries,I love my kids and that is why they don’t get to do whatever they want to do, it just might be harmful to them. Jesus has put boundaries on us, out of his love for us, you can break them but what usually follows is regret, hurt, pain, and just downright ugly consequences.

      • Christopher Steven Jenkins

        Well, I agree with this in general. There are different ways to love someone, and sometimes being harsh is a form of love. Absolutely. However, what I am saying is that many people on the right (not all) are not going about loving people different from them in the right ways, and that is what I firmly believe.

    • Triple T

      Your contributions here are riddled with things like “sooo soooo weak”, “lol” and “GUH”. Maybe try speaking like an adult if you want to be part of this conversation?

      • Christopher Steven Jenkins

        I made several points. Attacking my phraseology seems petty. The internet has changed linguistics, and I have the right to use various figures of speech and idioms to express myself. At the end of the day, there is substance to what I’m saying; let’s talk about it.

        • Triple T

          You have the right to type whatever you want. If you want your posts to look like they were written by middle school students, have at it. The rest of us have the right to tell you if we think you sound foolish.

          • Christopher Steven Jenkins

            Of course you have that right! I will tell you this: I type very quickly in comment sections like this and don’t proofread. I am actually a published writer, and I write for several large news organizations. So I’m pretty sure I’m not writing at a middle school level, but that is not the point. My point was that it’s silly to attack me for my writing style when we could be discussing the issue. I think it’s important to have these discussions for both sides, and I just think it’s a cop out to point out things like “lol” which are extremely common in the internet vernacular just because you disagree with my points. If you disagree with my points, let’s continue having a discussion about the issue at hand. If someone you agreed with had said “lol” in their post I doubt you would have called them out similarly, so let’s be honest about what this is really about. It’s not about language; it’s about your dislike of my beliefs. That’s fine! Let’s talk about it.

  • Dianne Bourgeois

    It’s really not about from homosexuality to becoming straight. It’s about from homosexuality to Holiness. Ye “must” be born again! All of the intellectual argumentS will accomplish zero, because it’s the power of God only that can bring truth to the sin sick soul.

  • Page 48

    Mansplaining.

  • Hisame

    As a woman I find it insulting that HE thinks that he is a WOMAN and can confidently speak on “women’s issues” when HE does little more than prance around in a dress and WILL never experience ANYTHING A WOMAN does in her lifetime (are you going to give birth BRUCE, or suffer menstruation? No. Never as you are a MAN).

    I am sure that lots of men would be outraged if Kris Jenner suddenly announced she was a man and wanted to be called Christopher, and wanted to be an “Ambassador for Men’s issues” having not experienced anything that men have to face. Is that okay with everyone, or should I meekly accept that someone without the requisite DNA wants to be a woman and thinks they can confidently speak on it?

    Do I have the right to tell people that from now on I want people to call me Imani because I have felt like I am an African woman all my life, start wearing a dashiki because that’s what I think African women do, speak in a Ghanaian accent, and expect everyone to be fine with it when I state I want to be an ambassador for “African Issues”?
    No I do not.

    As for the bathrooms, I am very sorry but I don’t like the idea of having to use a public restroom or a women’s locker room and men being able to walk in at will and use it just because they “identify as a woman”. Is that okay or am I being bigoted or unfair or downright mean because this will open the door to even more perverts and I want to protect myself? Would any man really want to share a public bathroom with a woman with a penis or a locker room with one who identifies as a man? Am I really expected to go to ladies hour at the local pool and find I have to share it with transvestite or transsexual men and be fine with it?

    I also don’t think that it is reasonable to expect parents to tell their daughters that sorry, Jimmy will be sharing your girls bathroom and will be showering with you after games because he is a girl. Yeah I know he has a penis, but he puts on women’s clothes and that makes him just like you. Don’t worry honey, there’s nothing creepy about it, he’s female. What’s the problem? You don’t have problems showering with the other girls, so why should you mind Jimmy?

    • Lisadoll

      Oh. My . God.
      Why are you so afraid of ” the boogeyman?”
      I feel some compassion for you. You seem to have created this fear for something that does not even exist .
      This is a form of prejudice. Just like when whites were afraid to drink from the same water fountain as ” coloreds” it’s irrational fear.
      I do feel sorry for you.
      Perhaps you should venture out in the world and meet a few more people.. some who are different from you.

  • “The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto Yahweh thy God.” (Deuteronomy 22:5)

    That transgenderism (along with homosexuality) is out of the closet parading itself in front of our children and grandchildren is a direct corollary of the Church rejecting Yahweh’s exclusive moral sovereignty over every aspect of society as reflected in His triune moral law (His Ten Commandments and their respective statutes and judgments).

    Tragically this antinomianism is rampant in the contemporary church and is principally responsible for what was Christendom (Christians dominionizing every aspect of society on behalf of their King) in 17th-century Colonial America, becoming today’s 4-walled Christianity, aka Christendumb. Today’s Christianity is best depicted by Christ in Matthew 5:13 as salt that’s lost its savor, good for nothing but to be trampled under the foot of man.

    For more, see blog article “Self-Imposed Impotence.” Click on my name, then our website. Go to our Blog and search on title.

    See also “10 Reasons Why the Kingdom Here on Earth Isn’t Mission Impossible.”

    • Megan Gibson

      Incase you didn’t hear, this isn’t the 1600’s, not everybody believes in god. Your rules don’t apply.

      • In case you haven’t heard, Yahweh’s is eternal, and He doesn’t give a hoot about your fickle opinions.

        • Megan Gibson

          That’s adorable! You think i care? Not everyone believes in god, therefore, not everyone has to follow the rules god supposedly made .

  • No matter how much hormone medication a transgender takes, and no matter how much surgery they have to change their outer sexual organs, they cannot change their DNA or their chromosomes, which is what really determines ones sex.

  • Paul Foltz

    And no amount of surgery will change the fact that he is a man. God created men and woman and NOTHING can change that, and there are no additional options.

    • Megan Gibson

      Oh sure, there are only 7 billion people in the world, why can’t we fit them into only two category’s? Idiot.

      • Paul Foltz

        GOD fit them into only two categories. AND, He only allows for sexual relations between one man and one woman for life.

        • Megan Gibson

          GOD, in my opinion doesn’t exist, so thus your point is invalid. Transgender people don’t effect you or the way you choose to live, leave them alone. And isn’t GOD supposed to be all loving?

          • Paul Foltz

            God DOES exist, your opinion notwithstanding. Yes, God is loving but He is also holy and demand holiness. He will also be your judge.

          • Megan Gibson

            Ok, for arguments sake, lets say God exists. But if God really believes the lgbt community are sinners, I don’t want to be accepted by him, I’d rather be in hell, then be in a place where people are not accepted for who they are and who they love.

          • Paul Foltz

            There is coming a day when you will regret that statement.

          • Megan Gibson

            No, there won’t. I’d much rather have a happy transitioned daughter than an unhappy son. It all boils down to what your beliefs are, and not everybody shares the same beliefs, it’s important not to push you ideas of how society should act on other people who don’t share those beliefs if we ever want to be able to have a well functioning society. You have to respect the fact not everyone believes there is a god, just like atheists have to accept there are people who do believe in god.

          • Paul Foltz

            IOW, you don’t care if your child is a pervert!!

            It all boils down to what GOD says is right!!

          • Megan Gibson

            Transgender people are not perverts. I find it very hard to believe people would go as far and change their gender and go under operations to do so just so they can spy on people peeing. And FWI, I don’t give a damn what so called “God” says is right. How about you focus your hatred on more important issues, such as Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, Brexit, Sexism, Racism. God, isn’t real in many eyes and thus you cannot use him as a reason of your ridiculous hatred towards transgender people. And I would be thrilled if, when I have children, they trusted me enough to come out as transgender, I would be a very proud mother. It all boils down to your tolerance of different people.

          • Paul Foltz

            God IS real and you WILL be convinced of it someday. BTW, transgender people ARE perverts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • Megan Gibson

            Aw, honey, misused capital letters aren’t going to make me believe in God, and neither are excessive amounts of exclamation marks. I will Believe that all transgender people are perverts if you give me stone cold proof, otherwise, you’re just as bad as a woman claiming all men are perverts. As for God, well I’ll believe he’s real when I have more proof than an old dusty book you call the bible.

          • Paul Foltz

            A pervert is one who either is or does something in a way that different than intended. GOD says that He created man and woman; there are NO other options and no opportunities to change what GOD created each individual to be. Therefore, a transgender person IS a pervert.

            GOD says that He has given each person proof of His existence. Read Romans chapter 1. His Creation is one proof of His existence. When people choose to ignore or disobey God, He turns them over to perversion.

          • Megan Gibson

            As an active Atheist, God doesn’t mean anything to me. So you can say that I support people who disobey God and thus I’m disobeying him but you don’t seem to realize I don’t care.

          • Paul Foltz

            When God sends you to the eternal flames of Hell, you’ll care.

          • Megan Gibson

            Ahah, can’t wait, hell’s gonna be lit

          • Megan Gibson

            Gonna be lit if people like me are there.

  • Jonathan

    If I went under surgery and had a tail and cat ears installed, would that make me a cat? No

    If I had gills and a dorsal fin installed would I be a fish? No

    What if I gained a ton in weight and had an elephant trunk installed? Would I be an elephant? No.

    Whether or not someone installed something on their body or not, whether they have psychological issues or not, that doesn’t change them. Bruce will always be Bruce, he was born a man, no matter what he does, he will be a man.

  • Kevin Carr

    Christopher S-J, I wanted to get back to you sooner, I work a crazy schedule. In one of your post you stated you love based on what you think is right and good, but it your standard the same for everyone? We know the answer is no it is not. While you may not believe in God, neither did Joseph Goebels, Himmler, and many of Hitler’s other generals. In trying to justify their actions, used the everything is relative defense, thus claiming it was their law. A Nuremberg prosecutor then told them, there is a law above the law (meaning God). While some spend time rejecting God it does not mean he does not exist and His word does not apply to them, at some point in time they will find out otherwise. You did refer back to prohibitions on shellfish and the like. That was Jewish law given to them by God. Christ had not come as a man yet, that was thousands of years down the road, Christianity did not exist. At that to say while some Christians are not very kind in their objection to certain things we have a responsibility to object, but we also should not be made to conform to some things that are ungodly and hurt others. In case of my daughter why should she have her rights infringed upon and e made to share facilities with bio-boys just because they say they are girls? Doesn’t she have any rights that should be respected or just them?

  • faithntrust

    BTW, has Bruce managed to be asked out on a DATE by a man yet? I haven’t heard of any such reports but I do avoid the gossip programs.

  • Angela Lordi

    (1) It is a well-documented psychological observation that people can feel to be one gender or the other, and in a tiny percentage, the gender felt does not match the biological sex. (2) It also well-documented to be is harmful to force such a person to conform their presentation to fit their biological sex. Such oppression increases suicide rates and leads to poorer quality of life for the transgender patient. (3) The determination of gender identity is made through psychoanalysis of the patient through well-established protocols, which are largely based on interview of the patient, so barring psychosis, it’s pretty much the case that when a person expresses a gender identity, it is acceptable to the analyst and to the world. Such analysis is required before changes to the body can be made. Therefore, your diagnosis is meaningless, as you are not privy to the patient’s profile, and therefore hurtful. Your article serves no purpise other than to hurt, and I find that very, very UN-christian.

    • Gary

      Trannies can pretend to be whatever they want, as long as they don’t try to force others to pretend with them.

      • Ripley Wolfwood

        Good. So, just so we’re clear, that means you can’t force the rest of us to pretend you’re a decent human being. K, bye now.

  • local 39

    Somehow Politically correct concerning Gender Choice has been allowed to endanger the majority who love respect and live the gender they were born with. No matter how you cut the pie up , a man in a dress is still a man.

    • Ripley Wolfwood

      HOw are you “endangered?” You people are pitiful, so threatened by people who aren’t like you. You’re right. You ARE the majority, so stop being a whiny “snowflake” (a term you like to throw at liberals) and move on, PS, Don’t even talk to me about bathrooms because you’ve been sharing your bathrooms with trans people all along. You didn’t know because unlike you nit wits who are so worried about people peeking over into your urinal or under your stall door, they mind their own damn business.

      • brothergc

        no what is “pitiful” is supporting a idea that gender is based on what you “feel” supporting that is supporting a mental disorder . What is “pitiful” is throwing womens and childrens rights to privacy under the bus to allow perverts pretending to be trans , access to their private spaces .

  • Dan Cole

    Michael, you proclaim God’s love, and refer to Jesus’ death, but then you base your conviction on science. It is here you lose the argument. Science, like fact, always has an interpretive framework based on a worldview. It alone is not authoritative. Science will never lead to “ought” or “ought not”, but only “what is” or “what is not”. To speak out with conviction, one needs a higher authority. To the point – nature’s God, the Supreme Judge of all mankind (as our Declaration of Independence states it). Such God of all mankind and Supreme Judge of all mankind has spoken in the Scripture (at one time held sacred in this nation) on this issue, and in fact on all sexual and gender issues. Speak from conviction from His Scripture on what the Universal Judge has said about male and female and LGBT. Yes we are all broken, and we are all called to repentance, not to continue in our sin as your last paragraph seems to indicate.

  • White Dog

    …”I’m Sorry, but Caitlyn Jenner is a Man Wearing a Dress’. And he’s a hideously ugly man at that.

    • wildbilz69

      Amen, Brother! 20+ year USNRet. and I will profess that even a drunk sailor wouldn’t try to pick up and screw that. No matter how much money it has!!!

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