Female Army Colonel Illustrates Why No One Should Listen to Army About Marine Standards

Feminist policy makers are trying to lower Marine standards simply to reach a quota of females in the program — not what is best for the nation.

Marines with India Company, 3rd Battalion, 3rd Marine Regiment, respond to a simulated improvised explosive device detonation during counter-IED training at Marine Corps Training Area Bellows, Hawaii, on April 26, 2011. The training was part of a two-week evolution that allowed Marines to learn and practically apply counter-IED techniques under the watchful eye of instructors from the Marine Corps Engineer Center of Excellence.

By Jude Eden Published on October 20, 2016

It’s always funny to Marines when people from other military branches say our standards are too stringent. Funny in a “how embarrassing that you opened your mouth” sort of way. Too late for Army Col. Ellen Haring who wrote an opinion piece for the Marine Corps Times to admonish our Infantry Officer Course (IOC) standards, again. This is not new for Haring, who in 2014 opined for War on the Rocks that IOC’s Combat Endurance Test (CET) was merely “an initiation rite and not a test of occupational qualification.”

In question this time is whether the IOC requirement to carry “up to 152 pounds for 9.3 miles at a 3-mile-per-hour pace in order to graduate” is realistic testing and training for officers, when enlisted Marines test on 60 pounds to complete Infantry Training Battalion and work up to 152 later. She quizzed a handful of Marines who bolstered her doubts (no details on whether they had infantry combat deployment experience, and had she named them they’d bear the same humiliation as she). She found the answer she was looking for and missed the truth she’s studiously ignoring.

She says,

So my question to the Marine Corps is — where did they get these standards, who validated them and who can actually meet them? They don’t appear to be operationally based and it sounds like no Marine infantry unit can meet them. They certainly aren’t regular or recurring requirements to be a Marine infantryman — which means they don’t meet legal standards.

This is a standard tactic of those pushing women into combat units: Denounce the standards that have worked to forge the toughest military in the world as unfairly discriminatory to women so that those standards can be summarily disregarded. That way, more women will pass and feminist policy makers will get their desired quota of female representation in the ranks.

Haring and her ilk expect us to believe that they don’t want the standards lowered for women and then they pull garbage like this. They want us to believe in conflicting realities: on one hand that women can do anything infantrymen can do, and on the other hand that we’re so technologically advanced women won’t have to. They can’t have it both ways, and neither one is true.

Since she couldn’t manage to find anyone to explain why such standards would be useful to infantry leaders in the military’s toughest branch fighting the most ruthless savages we’ve ever seen, allow me to assist.

Heavy Lifting in Ground Combat

In the battle of Najaf, Iraq, in 2004 the Marines had to clear the largest cemetery in the Middle East, the Wadi-us-Salaam, of 14-15,000 of Muqtada Al-Sadr’s Jaish Al Mahdi militia. With above-ground mausoleums, some over eight feet tall, it was a three-dimensional labyrinth and they had to clear every inch between and on top while fighting enemy insurgents. Because of the space constraints around the graves and monuments, casualties couldn’t be carried out on stretchers with a two- or four-man carry.  A Marine had to carry his fallen brother on his back along with his gear and weapon so as not to let them fall into enemy hands. Thirteen were killed and over one hundred were wounded. That’s a lot of lifting well over 150 lbs and moving over distance with it — that graveyard was 7 miles square. How much weight they could carry quickly over difficult terrain d*** well mattered.

During the second battle of Fallujah Marines from Lima Company, 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment were convoying into the city when the tire of a Humvee popped:

As the driver, Lance Cpl. Ian Smith set the jack and began changing the tire, the soft dirt and the blast from a rocket propelled grenade that landed nearby caused the vehicle to fall atop him. Seeing that Smith was being crushed under the incredible weight of the up-armored Humvee, 1st Sgt. Wayne Hertz and Sgt. Johnnie Lassiter, the turret gunner, rushed to help him. Acting on instinct, the two immediately started trying to lift the vehicle off Smith. Incredibly, they were able to take enough of the weight off of Smith that other Marines, who ran over when they heard screaming, were able to pull the pinned man to safety.

How much weight the guys could lift certainly mattered for LCpl Smith. These are just two examples from our most recent wars. There are thousands more from every war we’ve fought, of men slogging through grueling terrain carrying heavy weapons, gear, and each other. They ran up the beaches of Normandy, they trudged in the jungles of the South Pacific and Vietnam, and they have been scaling the walls of compounds in Iraq and the strongholds and caves of Afghanistan with their gear in tow as they close in to destroy the enemy by fire and close combat. That’s what validates IOC standards.

An Mk 19 grenade launcher weighs over 77 lbs, more with ammo. A .50 cal machine gun is 127 lbs. A piece of track on a tank is 60 lbs. An artillery shell for an armored tank is 95 lbs. Men in the combat arms are routinely carrying 60-100 lb of gear and more. If you have to carry the grenade launcher or the .50 cal or change a piece of broken track on a tank or the tire of a 5-ton truck, or evacuate a casualty, being able to move quickly with a heavy load is essential. But pencil-pushers like Haring play stupid, as if one thing has nothing to do with the other.

The truth is, on combat deployments and in the heat of battle, you don’t know if you’ll have to do everything you trained for. Some of our war fighters kill the enemy face to face with their knives or bare hands as we’re still waiting for the “push-button” war leftists have been selling since Vietnam. Some never end up facing that situation. But they have to train to be ready for that reality, the most demanding challenge, the worst-case scenario.

Demanding Training Makes Success in Combat More Likely

Basing IOC standards on what is operationally standard is irrelevant. A crucial variable of Marine Corps training is to create physically demanding training. In part this is to prepare those who go into combat for the physical realities they will face and to make sure they can reasonably achieve the missions they will be given. More importantly, because training cannot mimic the physical and mental stresses of actual combat, part of the psychology of training evolutions is to create a great deal of stress in other ways in order to determine who may not be able to handle it, and thus who is and isn’t capable of leading Marines into combat.

The men who pass IOC are not all the most physically fit, they are a combination of the most physically fit and the most mentally tough. Combat can be incredibly stressful, with very little sleep, very little to eat or drink, no showers for months at a time, carrying incredibly heavy packs around for months. In those times it is a combination of discipline, the band of brothers mentality to take care of the man on your right and left, and mental toughness that allows our Marines to outfight those who stand opposed to us.

Basing IOC standards on what is operationally standard is also extremely stupid.  The Chosin Reservoir wasn’t operationally standard.  The Battle of the Bastogne wasn’t operationally standard, nor the Bataan Death March nor the Battle of Valley Forge. Marines setting up one of the first operating bases in Afghanistan, being dropped off miles from the airfield, in sand, with 175 lbs in gear, ammo, food, and water each, wasn’t operationally standard.

Those we allow to lead our Marines into actual combat must be physical beasts so that when we face more capable militaries, what is operationally standard now won’t be the standard by which the Marines Corps loses in the future. We prepare for the most difficult fights we could face, not what is operationally standard today.

What if our troops find themselves without supply lines, no air support, and no light armor vehicles and the fate of the United States is at stake? We train for that mission, not this theoretical world that doesn’t actually exist that ensures only missions that include 60 lbs packs or less. If that is the standard that Col. Haring seeks, then would her logic dictate that wars that might exceed that standard are also unfair and “illegal”?

The duty of the military is to secure our rights and protect the government of the United States and the Constitution it is based on. Whatever it takes to reach that standard is legitimate, and legal, even if that means preventing females from participating. Policies that jeopardize that objective or make achieving that objective more difficult are inherently illogical. “Fairness” takes a back seat to accomplishing the mission and preserving as many lives as possible, especially amongst those in our forces who put their lives on the line for all of us. What isn’t fair is Col. Haring putting politics before logic and seeking to endanger the lives of Marines in combat as a result, and denying scientific reality in the process.

Marine Officer Vs. Enlisted Training

Haring wonders why Marine infantry officers’ training is so much harder than that of the infantry enlisted Marines. It’s because our officers lead from the front. Hence their motto, Ductus Exemplo, leadership by example. They must be faster, smarter and stronger than the men in their charge because they will not simply direct their men to the front and “lead from behind” like Obama does. They will go first leading their men to engage and destroy the enemy. That’s so that they can lead their combat units to victory with the fewest possible casualties. The biological reality, whether or not it is convenient for the leftist/feminist narrative, is that these platoons are alpha male-centric. If a 2nd LT is physically inferior to his men, or cannot lead from the front physically, he will not earn their respect, which in and of itself is a crucial cog in the leadership structure of combat units.

The Army colonel and her wishful thinking would have our infantry officers train to the lowest common denominator, and hope for best case scenarios where female infantry officers press buttons on their iPads to execute missions, detached and unsullied by the realities of offensive ground combat. Among feminist acolytes she’s probably lauded as a heroine, but her objection to the Marines’ high standards illustrates exactly why people like her shouldn’t be allowed to make or influence military policy.

 

By Jude Eden with Joseph Wade Miller. Miller is a Marine infantry veteran with three tours in Iraq and Afghanistan.  @J_Wade_Miller

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  • Gary

    Real men won’t join the US Military. They understand that the military has become feminized and sodomized.

    • Paul

      We may not like what is going on in leadership but that is no reason to denigrate the many fine people serving our country.

      • Gary

        “The many fine people serving our county” are accomplices in feminizing and sodomizing the military. Can you not force yourself to face the truth???

        • Rodney E Overby

          dont be mean to gary..it is quite apparent that his mother and father are also brother and sister…besides his tin foil cap fell off and he is being controlled by robots from outer space

          • john

            You show more decency than he does, Rodney.

        • uninvitedguest

          you’re nothing more than a cry baby and a coward gary. youre pathetic at best

          • Gary

            You want the world to be different than it really is. You are the coward because you won’t face reality.

          • Gary

            I noticed you did not try to refute anything I said.

          • uninvitedguest

            I dont have to because normal people know better. You’re just a bitter old man.

          • Gary

            What I said is absolutely true. That means YOU are a liar.

          • uninvitedguest

            no need as its not true. liar for christ

          • BWoods55

            Are you talking negatively about Christ? I feel sorry for you and will pray for you

          • john

            You are a punk and a snot. You insult the fine young people that enlist, or become officers, for patriotic reasons and have more spine than you ever will. Join yourself and try to make a difference. Or are you too scared to try that?

          • john

            stop the ageism, punk. It is as bad as racism.

          • john

            I notice that you have prevented any discussion with you.

      • john

        Oh, Hell, Yeah!

    • uninvitedguest

      Only real men and women join the military gary. My commander in the ME was a woman who flew Hueys. Get a clue.

      • Gary

        One of the purposes of the military now is to promote feminism and homosexuality. No moral, honorable person would do that, but that is what the military now requires of its members. Which means, that anyone in the military now is working to carry out the agenda.

        • uninvitedguest

          nope and no proof of it. our military is there to protect our way of life. youre just a coward

          • john

            A coward who shortstops any further discussion by being a coward and hiding behind an” innactive” account. That is just personal and intellectual cowardice. Just infuriating.

        • Eethp Plur

          Um. What?

  • Dean Bruckner

    Well written, Jude Eden and Joseph Wade Miller! Semper Fi!

    If you aim at 50%, you’ll be about average, and uncompetitive. If you aim at 95% or 99%, you’ll be ready to think about being Marines.

    Let’s let Col Haring command a regiment entirely of Army women who meet her standards and put them up, in simulated battle conditions in the field for two weeks, against a Marine regiment of men who meet the current standards. Let’s publicize the unedited results far and wide, with Col. Haring’s picture all over it.

    Surely she will quickly be deep-selected for promotion to Major General or Lieutenant General for her blazing success.

    • Jude

      I like the way you think, Dean.

      • Dean Bruckner

        Thanks. I’m sure it was informed by many brave and wise people like you over the decades, so
        I can’t take any credit except as a repository willing to return and multiply it when and where needed.

    • THIS

      • john

        I do not understand your comment. Care to explain to me. Please?

  • Mike Berry

    This is an excellent, factual article. Well done. Col Haring obviously has no first hand experience in ground combat and has no business telling Marines how to train and organize for the fight. “Women in Infantry units” is a disaster ready to happen. It’s not about courage; it’s about brute strength. The Army is about ready to learn it the hard way. I hope the Marine Corps keeps infantry standards very high. Carry on Marines and forget the social engineering crap. P.S. I am retired Army Lieutenant Colonel with a year of combat experienced while supporting the 3rd Marine Division in Vietnam.

  • Jason Van Steenwyk

    As a former Army infantry platoon leader and company commander, I am 100 percent in agreement with you.

    This non-infantry colonel does not speak for the Army infantry community at all.

    • john

      Thank you, sir.

  • Slwsnowman40

    LOL, wow. Hey Army dogs, this is why we mock you openly. That colonial clearly doesn’t understand that the title Marine is earned, and to earn Officer of Marines is even harder. How many thinks she would faint if she knew what the Drill Instructor training was?

  • Congratulations to Jude Eden and Joseph Wade Miller for reminding us of the brutal demands of direct ground combat in wars since 9/11. Col. Haring proves what many observers predicted: Drop women’s exemptions from the combat arms, impose gender diversity metrics (quotas), and then “validate” standards that are equal but lower than before. This is the Dempsey Rule, named for Gen. Martin Dempsey, the former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. In January 2003 Gen. Dempsey said that standards too high for women would be questioned. Col. Haring is doing just that and it didn’t take long.

    • john

      Ma’am. she has been whining like this for years.

  • Paul Burgett

    This article makes me want to backslide and start cussing. What a pile of *%^&$%##!! from that non-hacker POS turd Colonel. Let me tell everyone who has never been a Marine something. We don’t give a f*&%ing $#!t what you think. We are the United States Marine Corps. We kill people for the sake of America and we are good at what we do. There is zero PC for our mission tasking, and at the same time no higher level of professionalism and dedication to duty. When you think of locked on and squared away, what do you think of? Not some fata$$ Army Sgt. thats for sure.
    Let me tell you about something else, for everyone who doesn’t have a clue about why Marine Corps and frankly a lot of SpecOps communities are so good at what they do. We’re not rocket scientists. We learn to NEVER QUIT. This is exactly the kind of training that teaches you that. And we take it seriously. If you are going to lead our young Marines into combat you better be able to do 110% of everything you’re going to ask them to do.
    Oh and one last thing since she obviously didn’t do any reasearch in any way: I’m a former Marine and now a fireman. We train with 175 lbs weighted dummies for our carries courses. We also do it using self-contained breathing apparatus and 50lbs of gear. In fact about an hour ago I just got done playing a game of soccer with my company – in full turnout gear.
    So for all the PC jockeys, all the people who think that those defending our freedom deserve less than the best in qualified leaders, we’ll see how you do when SHTF. Because around here they taught us one shot, one kill. And you can take that to the Bank.

  • Philip Molangi

    Great response to that idiot Haring’s pathetic comments. I served for 15 years as an Army grunt, and NOTHING angers me more than these damn liberals telling me what MY infantry should like and who should be in it!

    • Eethp Plur

      I didn’t realize it was your infantry.

      • john

        It is called taking ownership, you squeeling sh*t. Your stupidity is showing. You have no place commenting on things you are ignorant of.

        • Thomas Peavy

          Agreed John. It is “Our Corps” for Marines and FMF Corpsmen. It speaks to the Brotherhood of owing, of relationship and responsibility for our Marines and for Marines caring for other Marines. Our Corps and its traditions and its ways are owned by any who served in that calling. As for Plur, he will never understand that only three entities in this life know what it is to be a Marine, that is a Marine, an FMF Corpsman and God. Others only imagine.

          • john

            Thank you, Senior Chief. You have the rightness of it, and I see no indication that this person has even a clue what we mean.

        • Eethp Plur

          Your butthurt is showing. It’s not your infantry, army, flag, etc., anymore than it is mine or anyone else’s. It’s almost as if an organization that millions of people belong/have belonged to can produce multiple opinions as to a legitimate issue, without any particular opinion owning the organization.

      • BWoods55

        The only thing you have even a part of is the come soaked rock from your dad. You are truly a waste of a human

        • Thomas Peavy

          Are you a Troll or just some Fool looking for attention?? When you have walked my path and accomplished you can comment, until then STFU. Now Get the Hell off my Deck, Pecker Wood.

        • Thomas Peavy

          Are you a Troll or just some Fool looking for attention?? When you have walked my path and accomplished you can comment, until then STFU. Now Get the Hell off my Deck, Pecker Wood.

          • BWoods55

            Tom, I strongly apologize to you. I as commenting to different subject. I had to login etc….I posted incorrectly.

            I feel the same as you. I am am former marine. Please accept my apology. I need to pay closers attention

          • Thomas Peavy

            Thanks Devil dog. It is difficult for me to decide at times whether I am dealing with a Troll or legitimate commentary. You know a Sr. Chief Doc is passionate about his Marines and Our Corps and his Sailor’s mouth may express that passion. We are Brothers in our Corps and that is what counts. Semper FI.

          • BWoods55

            No worries brother. It was my fault. Thank you for your service and what you have done for all of us. OOH RAH!
            Semper Fi
            Brian

  • Vince Sutton

    Great article which reminds us we in the US are a republic, for neither diversity nor equality are found in the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Federalist Papers or the Pledge of Allegiance. In the pledge, we are a republic. When Ben Franklin, emerging from the Philadelphia convention, was asked by a woman what kind of government they had created, he answered, “A republic, if you can keep it.” Let’s hope that we can keep it for at least another 229 years!

    • Eethp Plur

      Um. What?

  • Charles Bennett

    Army Col. Ellen Haring – civil affairs officer. End of discussion.

    • BWoods55

      Well said

    • john

      Oh, Hell, Yeah!

  • Dwight Mattix

    Epic rebuttal. Clean kill.

    BZ Marine.

    Blackeagle Control, out.

  • Legalize Freedom

    I’m glad I served. I’m glad I’m out. I would not want to be in right now. The corrupt government we are under is destroying the proud military traditions of our country with their libtard nonsense and people are going to get killed as a direct result.

    • Harry O’Scair

      This has been happening for years, we trained in boots in 1978, but soon after the Air Force switched Basis to sneakers. When I became a P.O. in the early 80’s the physical training had already been lowered. I do not believe we came allow inferior quality to become the standard.

    • Eethp Plur

      This was dumb and you should feel bad.

      • Legalize Freedom

        Last night I asked your mom what she thought and she said it was ok.

      • BWoods55

        You are just a FU#$ING IDIOT. when Ihear that SONIC boom I will hope it is from you pulling your head out of your A$$

  • DRLJR

    Excellent article!

  • Thomas Peavy

    The Fleet Marine Force Corpsman has to meet Marine Corps Standards. At age 50 I was running Marine Corps PT and averaging a 10 minute mile over a three mile course. I would never allow a Corpsman male or female to be in my unit who could not master the rudimentary physical requirements. The Col apparently does not know the requirement to move a casualty under combat conditions or the physical effort to do so. Failure to render that aid is death for the Marine casualty and likely that of the Corpsman. Combat is not a computer game or mental exercise. Failure there has deadly consequences.

    • john

      Senior Chief, I understand and agree completely. I retired on 30, started out as a grunt corpsman, and chose to stay FMF even after I was commissioned.

  • Carl Hossli

    Col. Haring sounds like a REMF, or for those real, real, real old Corps types, a Remington Raider. But then again dad always said the only way an Army unit moves is when the trucks arrive – he served in the USMC from 1950 to 1978.

    • john

      While I agree with you in general, a REMF was not defined as being a Remington Raider, or did I misunderstand your comment?

  • Harry O’Scair

    Lowering standads leads to inferior quality. Perhaps devise a different Division, one that does not need such strident standards to accomplish their mission. We I entered the Air Force, it was because I did not want to face the rigorous training on the Marines. If you can’t, or don’t want to meet the criteria, do not ask for it to be lowered, so that you can be “One of the few”

  • BobH2003

    I propose a serious campaign that all right thinking people would support, and feminists ought to support, but won’t.
    To demonstrate women’s equality to men in regards to fitness and strength, new law should be passed that forbids gender separation in sports of any kind.
    Thus from that time forward, women would compete directly against men in.-
    Running,
    High Jump
    Long jump
    Wrestling
    Boxing,
    Weights
    Discus
    Hammer throwing
    Swimming
    Diving
    Cycling
    and not to forget, synchronized swimming.
    This would of course prove once and for all that women can match any man……………………or not!
    Someone should start a petition.

    • BWoods55

      And……
      Football
      Rugby
      Basketball
      Soccer
      MMA
      Wrestling
      Etc….

      This country of ours needs a lot of help with common sense amongst other things.

      • john

        As I said above, why not just gender integrate the Olympics?

    • john

      Heck, why not gender integrate the Olympics and see what happens?

      • Geralt_0f_Rivia

        That’ll probably be next. The shadow of BOHICA descends upon us all.

        • john

          Geralt, it would be a rather painless learning experience for the Feminazis.

      • BobH2003

        Of course we should.
        I usually list the Olympics when I post this comment, which I do on every article like this I read.
        Its interesting that they insist on total integration in every male area, except the one which would shoot their agenda down in flames.
        I am serious though, someone should start a national petition, but it would have to be someone with clout who can keep it circulating till it starts to irritate the feminists and forces the debate into realism.
        The success of their agenda is that fools drink it in so readily without considering the implications. That’s why dragging it by force into the sporting arena will make them think about the stupidity of it all.

        • john

          It would be A rather painless lesson for the feminazis to learn, wouldn’t it?

  • Cleo2003

    As a woman who graduated from West Point and who served as an Airborne soldier
    supporting two infantry divisions and in Afghanistan, I believe much of
    the truth associated with this issue is being concealed. Contrary to
    what those championing this issue would have everyone believe, so do
    many women army vets. We are very concerned, to say the least. I could
    write a book on all the reasons why this latest policy change is a
    disaster. Several of my braver
    colleagues have publicly enumerated
    arguments as to why this is bad for women. They have been attacked as
    traitors for so-called sororicide. Apparently they aren’t allowed to
    have an opinion. I don’t hate women. Clearly I’ve benefited from gender
    equality measures. I won’t turn in my ovaries as someone suggested to a
    friend of mine. Unlike some of my women peers with similar
    backgrounds, I consider consequences for ALL women, not the just the
    physically elite. I refuse to misrepresent realities. These realities
    include the fact that all military jobs were opened without sorting out
    all the details. Well, I can tell you, the devil is definitely in the
    details. If women are truly to be treated equally, they will be drafted
    at an equal rate into infantry and armor. They will be ripped away
    from their children just as fathers were in the World Wars, Korea and
    Vietnam. They will leave motherless children if KIA. They will be
    captured as trophies and tortured. In peacetime, women will be forced
    branched and branch detailed infantry as men are presently. They will
    be preyed upon by recruiters who talk them into something many probably
    would rather not do for a four year enlistment. The average 18 year old
    woman has no clue what the infantry requires. I had no concept of what
    it’s like to carry 90 lbs over rough terrain in extreme heat with
    little food and even littler sleep until I did it. I had no idea what
    it’s like to load and reload 40+ lb rounds into tanks over and over and
    over again until I tried it. I had no idea how hard it is to carry the
    weight of a parachute, a reserve chute, and a full combat load until I
    did it. I had no idea what chronic pain I would suffer later in life as a
    result of abusing my female frame. I had no idea I was risking future
    motherhood, female organ health, and bone density due to unconventional and prolonged use of birth control to suppress menstruation and heavy load bearing (If you don’t believe this, just google the medical studies and the fact that the VA provides fertility disability benefits to women vets). We must be careful not to use the excellent accomplishment
    of three extraordinary women in Ranger school to justify forcing the
    average woman into circumstances where she will be at a DEADLY
    disadvantage not only to herself, but to her peers. The Marine Corps
    Gender Integration Study found women were injured SIX TIMES more
    frequently than males and suffered OVER DOUBLE the musculoskeletal
    injuries. To those who allege the study was flawed- I seriously doubt
    the Marine Corps fabricated injury data, especially when I observed
    similar trends during my own years in the Army. Proponents of the new
    policy mislead the public by arguing that the Marines or Army won’t
    force people into jobs they can’t perform. In my personal experience,
    this is completely untrue. When soldiers can’t meet the standards, they
    are continually re-trained and remediated, often to the point of
    injury. “Suck it up” is a common phrase used in the Army. Soldiers
    unable to meet the standard are scorned and disdained by their peers.
    Infantrymen who can’t keep up don’t just reclass finance or personnel
    branch. For crying out loud, the only thing a man needs to enlist in
    the infantry is a certain (written test) ASVAB score, a passing medical
    exam, and the same passing score on a physical fitness test required for
    soldiers in every other Army job. Then, he’s locked in…for usually
    AT LEAST four years. Proponents say that branch specific tests will
    solve everything. Because the Army depends heavily on contracted
    enlistment periods and commissioning obligations, this is also a
    problem. When a soldier enlists, he’s pretty much locked in. If I had a
    nickel for every disgruntled soldier who alleged his or her recruiter
    lied to them, I’d be rich. Providing an escape hatch like a physical
    test would spell disaster for manning. It would waste millions of
    defense dollars when trained soldiers suddenly decide to “throw” their
    test to get out of a job they dislike. Let’s not forget that in the
    Army’s 2013 survey of 30,000 women, only 7.5 percent were interested in
    closed to women jobs. About half of that 7.5% were interested in
    engineer jobs and spec ops pilot and crew positions which are already
    open, so that number is probably closer to 4% today. Of those 4%, how
    many would actually be able to hack it? How many of those, once they
    actually got a taste of a long range recon patrol would actually still
    want to? I really wanted to attend West Point. I was an athlete. “How
    hard could it be?”, I thought. Let me tell you. It was INSANE to be 5
    feet tall and toting 80 lbs. all over the mountains. Somehow I made it,
    though I ended up being part of the stress-fracture club and will
    probably need a new hip at age 40. I certainly wasn’t an asset to my
    squad, always falling behind, too exhausted to fully function. After
    West Point, I really wanted to be a rigger. Then I got a taste of the
    physical demands of packing parachutes. It was A LOT more strenuous
    than I anticipated. I was thankful I was an officer and wouldn’t
    actually be required to pack quota like enlisted soldiers. I often felt
    sorry for the few (about 5 total) lower enlisted women riggers in my
    company and wondered if they had any idea what they’d be getting into.
    Regarding the low female participation in the infantries of other
    countries, proponents like to blame lack of interest and attrition on
    anti-woman culture. While this can’t be discounted, my intense dislike
    of infantry-related challenges had far more to do with immense and
    exhausting personal physical difficulty. It also was caused by my
    general desire to take an occasional shower, eat and sleep regularly. I
    specifically elected not to go to jumpmaster school because I knew
    beyond a shadow that no matter how hard I worked out, I would never be
    able to safely execute duties. I knew my lack of strength would be a
    danger to other paratroopers. Thankfully, I had that option. People
    need to stop being so emotional about this issue and think through the
    details.

  • Cleo2003

    As a former Airborne soldier who supported two infantry divisions and served in Afghanistan, I believe much of the truth associated with this issue is being concealed. Contrary to what those championing this issue would have everyone believe, so do many women army vets. We are very concerned, to say the least. I could write a book on all the reasons why this latest policy change is a disaster. Several of my braver colleagues have publicly enumerated arguments as to why this is bad for women. They have been attacked as traitors for so-called sororicide. Apparently they aren’t allowed to have an opinion. I don’t hate women. Clearly I’ve benefited from gender equality measures. Unlike some of my women peers with similar backgrounds, I consider consequences for ALL women, not the just the physically elite. I refuse to misrepresent realities. These realities include the fact that all military jobs were opened without sorting out all the details. Well, I can tell you, the devil is definitely in the details. If women are truly to be treated equally, they will be drafted at an equal rate into infantry and armor. In peacetime, women will be forced branched and branch detailed infantry as men are presently. They will be preyed upon by recruiters who talk them into something many probably would rather not do for a
    four year enlistment. In fact, the Marines are have already begun an aggressive recruiting campaign to recruit High School women athletes. This is problematic because the average 18 year old woman has no clue what the infantry requires or her extreme biological disadvantage. And, unlike her fellow male recruit, she will find it biologically impossible to achieve risk equality through physical training. No matter how hard she trains, her body fat percentage will still be higher, her muscle and bone mass inferior, her lung capacity significantly lower, and her heart smaller. Her pelvic organs will be at a much
    greater risk for injury. I had no concept of what it’s like to carry 90 lbs over rough terrain in extreme heat with little food and even littler sleep until I did it. I had no idea what it’s like to load and reload 40+ lb rounds into tanks over and over and over again until I tried it. I had no idea how hard it is to carry the weight of a parachute, a reserve chute, and a full combat load until I did it. I had no idea what chronic pain I would suffer later in life as a result of abusing my female frame. I had no idea I was risking future motherhood, female organ health, and bone density due to unconventional and prolonged use of birth control to suppress menstruation and heavy load bearing (If you don’t believe this, just google the medical studies
    and the fact that the VA provides fertility disability benefits to women vets). We must be careful not to use the excellent accomplishment of three extraordinary women in Ranger school to justify forcing the average woman into circumstances where she will be at a DEADLY disadvantage not only to herself, but to her peers. The Marine Corps Gender Integration Study found women were injured SIX TIMES more frequently than males and suffered OVER DOUBLE the musculoskeletal injuries. To those who allege the study was flawed- Check out all the injury data studies from Army training, West Point training, Israeli training, and the United Kingdom. These peer-reviewed medical studies confirm what professional sports already acknowledge. Proponents of the new policy mislead the public by arguing that the Marines or Army won’t force people into jobs they can’t perform. In my personal experience, this is completely untrue. When soldiers can’t meet the standards, they are continually re-trained and remediated, often to the point of injury. “Suck it up” is a common phrase used in the Army. Soldiers unable to meet the standard are scorned and disdained by their peers. Infantrymen who can’t keep up don’t just reclass finance or personnel branch. For crying out loud, the only thing a man needs to enlist in the infantry is a certain (written test) ASVAB score, a passing medical exam, and the same passing score on a physical fitness test required for soldiers in every other Army job. Then, he’s locked in…for usually AT LEAST four years. Proponents say that branch specific tests will solve everything. Because the Army depends heavily on contracted enlistment periods and commissioning obligations, this is also a problem. When a soldier enlists, he’s pretty much locked in. If I had a nickel for every disgruntled soldier who alleged his or her recruiter lied to them, I’d be rich. Providing an escape hatch like a physical test would spell disaster for manning. It would waste millions of defense dollars when trained soldiers suddenly decide to “throw” their test to get out of a job they dislike. Let’s not forget that in the Army’s 2013 survey of 30,000 women, only 7.5 percent were interested in closed to women jobs. About half of that 7.5% were interested in engineer jobs and spec ops pilot and crew positions which are already open, so that number is probably closer to 4% today. Of those 4%, how many would actually be able to hack it? How many of those, once they actually got a taste of a long range recon patrol would actually still want to? It’s pretty obvious from the SMA’s pleadings to women soldiers to branch transfer to the Infantry, few are interested in reality. I really wanted to attend West Point. I was an athlete. “How hard could it be?”, I thought. Let me tell you. It was INSANE to be 5 feet tall and toting 80 lbs. all over the mountains. Somehow I made it, though I ended up being part of the stress-fracture club and will probably need a new hip at age 40. I certainly wasn’t an asset to my squad, always falling behind, too exhausted to fully function. After West Point, I really wanted to be a rigger. Then I got a taste of the physical demands of packing parachutes. It was A LOT more strenuous than I anticipated. I was thankful I was an officer and wouldn’t actually be required to pack quota like enlisted soldiers. I often felt sorry for the few (about 5 total) lower enlisted women riggers in my company and wondered if they had any idea what they’d be getting into. Regarding the low female participation in the infantries of other countries, proponents like to blame lack of interest and attrition on anti-woman culture. While this can’t be discounted, my intense dislike of infantry-related challenges had far more to do with immense and exhausting personal physical difficulty. It also was caused by my general desire to take an occasional shower, eat and sleep regularly. I specifically elected not to go to jumpmaster school because I knew beyond a shadow that no matter how hard I worked out, I would never be able to safely execute duties. I knew my lack of strength would be a danger to other paratroopers. Thankfully, I had that option. People need to stop being so emotional about this issue and think through the details.

    • Jesse James

      Yeah, enjoy your pleas continuing to fall on deaf ears. The worst has happened! Idiots now run everything. I mean these idiots make idiots of the past look like cultural savants rivaling Einstein. They’re too stupid to be bargained with. They are propelled by hatred of men, and all things male. Anything resembling the “privileged past” must be done away with. They can’t be reasoned with. Only allowed to fail. May most of them die! Never siring offspring.

      • Cleo2003

        Sad but true. It’s interesting that the DOD has no money for basic drugs like pain and sleep meds or to cover $20 million in CA national guard bonuses, yet money is no object when it comes to social experiments and gender reassignment.

        • Jesse James

          True. That said, again, they just show their ineptness and lack of intelligence in leadership. They, apparently to me now, can’t see that we are all watching. Grading their every move with logic, and comparing them to better leaders, or at least leaders who were not as inept. And we consistently find them wanting. It would be one thing if they decided to try a new ship, or land based weapons platform that few agreed with. Or perhaps a social experiment that tests the conditioning and readiness. But those at the political top above the weak, and corrupt brass who are suppose to be our best, are too busy CYAing themselves, and loving the Obama slop on their face. Fact is, they will be the same to the next guy or gal. As long as thy get that cushy pension they have honestly worked hard for, they don’t care what the service looks like. Pathetic.

          • john

            Got that right, Mr. James. The liberals are self-destructive and seem intent on taking everyone else with them.

      • john

        Harshly said, but understandable.

    • Dean Bruckner

      Thank you for telling the truth. Thank you!

    • john

      Thank you, Ma’am.

    • BWoods55

      Nicely said. I am a jarhead ando appreciate your honesty. Semper Fi

    • Shiloh

      Thank you for clarifying all the risks. Is it wrong for a woman to want to try anyway? And no she can’t be a risk for her squad. She just has to accept she may very well not be able to do the job as needed. I like the idea we have the opportunity but we absolutely have to meet the same standards as our male counterparts. Not going to happen in the near future.

      • Cleo2003

        I would love for all women to be able to try whatever they want. But, there are strings attached. Like predatory recruiting, the draft, and force branching. By giving a couple the women the opportunity, other women will end up being forced, if all is executed equally. High performing women who would be attracted to these jobs will not quit until they are completely destroyed physically. I like to to point out that the military restricts all kinds of physically disadvantaged people from serving. You can’t be too tall, too short, too fat, too thin. You must be within a certain age range. You can’t have physical disqualifications like poor vision, horrible allergies, sleep issues, migraines, bad knees, etc. This is to ensure not only an optimal fighting force, but also to protect people who would find themselves at a gross disadvantage. In my own personal experience serving with elite females, most females are at a gross disadvantage in several areas, even at optimal fitness levels.

    • john

      Hey , a good rigger has my complete respect, and they BETTER be trustworthy! I bet my life on their being so!

  • RECO

    Id bet money that she could not pas Marine OCS. Maybe when she does that and earns the Title she can run her suck. Semper Fi

    • Another POV

      IIRC! I believe the expression is, “run your sock.” But “run her suck” seems to work here just fine.

      • PrimoFederalist

        No, it’s run your suck. As in your mouth.

        • Another POV

          If you say so.

    • BWoods55

      I believe you are right brother! Semper Fi

  • Lewis

    Keeping high standards is what keeps a military strong. Weakening it from within by lowering standards only serves to embolden our enemies and to lose respect world wide. Kinder, gentler, more politically correct is not what you need or want in a military force unless you have no desire to win a war.

    • Gary

      The people who run the US get rich by fighting wars, not by winning them.

      • Another POV

        Now that’s well said Gary.

        • BWoods55

          Agreed

  • slusk9655

    This is the same problem that our schools have. We used to train students for the toughness of reality, to go out and work and earn, to be adults. Now we train those students to the least common denominator, allowing them to take the least difficult path and to remain children. The effect on our society is incredibly visible.

  • Dwayne Gresham

    As an Army Infantry combat vet, I can tell you that I do not support the Colonel’s position on this subject. Most likely she has never been in any sort of actual fire fight, or has any experience on this subject, beyond a textbook.

    • Terry McKenna

      You can be certain of it.

    • john

      right there with you, dogface.

  • fullerhonda

    Women have become shadows of men. Obviously, she has no value of her own to add to humankind so the left decided to rid the world of her. As a shadow she has no substance. To remedy the lack of substance the left will have men become shadows. Boy! Aren’t we happy!

  • Jesse James

    HOW DARE YOU!-Feminists. LOL

    Face it! These damsels in distress only want to see a female Commandant of the Marine Corp. They don’t want to see women die. Just men. Forcing men to sacrifice more, therefore dying more, whilst only sacrificing a few more conservative women is a plus to these coven connoisseurs.

    This article destroyed the feminist, and Obama administration, narrative. Sadly, it will fall on deaf ears. They just took away all the Navy trade names like IC’man, Fireman, Airman, and others. Solely so they don’t offend like one percent of the military, and guarantee votes from females like the Col above.

    I keep wondering when this backlash they keep talking about is going to resonate? Case so far, these poor, helpless feminists have run roughshod over our hard as steel military leaders.

    • Shiloh

      I am a daughter of a WWII veteran and for some reason have always wanted to follow in his Army infantry footsteps (I know, born at the wrong time). While I am better than my sisters in some things even I can see there would be no way I could meet the necessary high standards our military needs. I do feel everyone should have to register for the selective service. We need to share the risks and do our part to serve our country.

      • Jesse James

        In the service, I hated the uber lesbianic man hater types who always had something to prove when the superiors were present. But then were content to let me do the hard work the rest of the time. If you do join, you have to be a team player. If you got a large man like me, let him carry the weight, but get the freaking door! If there is a small space, get in there no matter how dirty, and use that motherly small hand dexterity to fix things. They don’t want to hear it. It is too easy for them to judge, and then have you arrested if you return the favor.

        • Shiloh

          I agree! Use all your skills to get the job done.

          • john

            and all the people, Shiloh.

        • john

          I have heard that almost half the women on some ships have gotten pregnant on deployments because they changed their minds and just wanted to go home. One more way of f*cking the guys.

          • Shiloh

            That is wrong to do on so many levels. If you have committed to a job you see it through, not use the pregnancy card to get out.

          • john

            You seem to have better ethics than some other women, Shiloh.

          • Shiloh

            Guess its the generation and a good upbringing. Love my gruff veteran dad.

          • john

            My daughter came home after her first year of college. ” I hate it! I am Not having any fun! I am Not going back.” so with teeth grinding and the veins standing out in my neck, I asked what her plan was. Come to find out, she had already been to the Navy Recruiter, and the offered her Nuke. She was bright enough o ask what that would mean…. when she was told it would be 2 years of school, and then she would spend the rest of her life on a carrier, she ran for the door. The AF offered her a job making bombs, and she took that. Once she was out of bootcamp. she stopped calling me daddy and began calling me Pappa. She really is my kid.

      • john

        Thank you, Shiloh. The calm voice of reason!

  • Paul Kapavik

    I believe you meant *encampment* at Valley Forge, and *2ndLt* if you’re talking about Marines.

    • JMiller1776

      Correct. Written in a hurry and conflated Trenton and Valley Forge. Meant to list them both separately. The latter point is a typo.

  • Another POV

    I approve of this article.

  • redandbon

    The Army (the COL) needs to stay out of the Marine Corp’s business, the Army has enough problems of it’s own to work on.

  • Bob Hamilton

    Thankfully someone saw thru that bs…even enlisted infantry hump with at least 100-120 lbs. When you figure in plate carrier, saw, 1200 Rds of ammo, extra barrel, 3 MREs, camel back, med kit, ect…it adds up quick…the author of the original article needs a wake up call.

    • john

      As a corpsman, I carried all that, plus my medical gear, and sometimes some unlucky b*st*rd’s pack and gear,too.

  • rightminded

    Kudos to the author. I’m glad someone gets it.

    • john

      This is me laughing at you. What is it that she gets? It is certainly not the realities of combat. She is the worst kind of feminist.

  • Narf

    I, too, have noted and commented upon the dichotomy between “we can do anything you can” and “we require special protection” narratives which occur simultaneously. And one cannot help but notice that women have “the option” to join these forces–not the obligation.

    Howbout instead, we start imposing these on women without their consent, as we’ve done to men for countless generations? Cut off their student loans and govt job opportunities, fine and imprison them for failing to register with Selective Service. Impose genderless fitness and grooming standards (women are allowed more freedom to control their appearance than men because it’s easier to abuse and kill off an undifferentiated mass; harder when each person looks unique). It would go far to put some teeth in that “I can do anything you can do” bromide we’ve been dealt since the 1960s, and it’s high time to end the feminist hypocrisy of demanding equal rights, but running screaming from equal responsibilities, equal standards, and equal consequences.

    Let’s start treating women with the same disregard for life, limb and eyesight as men have borne since antiquity and see what happens.

    • Magilla Guerrilla

      Spot on. Concur.

    • BWoods55

      Ohh Rah! Outstanding Narf! I strongly agree with you brother. Semper Fi

    • john

      Harshly said, but perfectly to the point.

    • Shiloh

      Absolutely! Do not lower the standards, make the women meet them. Definitely selective service. And no pass if in school. I never could understand that.

  • Nick Bassitt

    What’s the deal with the ‘shot’ at Obama for “not leading from the front” near the end of the article? Seemed a bit out of the blue. I was 100% with you until then… mostly because the points made were seemingly not politically based, but that comment changed the narrative entirely. I still am with you, but that comment de-legitimizes your points a bit.

    • JMiller1776

      Because Obama has facilitated these unwarranted changes. We would have leveled the same criticism at Bush were he in office advocating the same policies behind the scenes.

      • Deovindice

        HOOAH!

        • john

          Or Ooh-Rah! , as the case may be.

          • Deovindice

            Ooh-Rah to you, John! How have ya been?

          • john

            Good days and bad days, Deo. All in all, never been more contented than I am now. I love this place. So, how have you been?

    • JMiller1776

      Most of the push for these kinds of things is now coming from within the military, some of it from the very top, because of the types of leaders the Obama administration has been maneuvering into place. Whether progressive or conservative, the insider efforts by the Obama administration have helped advance the agenda we spoke out against in the piece.

  • Three years ago, when Col Haring first started braying about this subject, I made my very first post on Disqus in response to the Washington Times article that covered her argument:

    “Col Haring, I was 5’7/118 lbs and I made it through Marine IOC. This is an invalid argument, as your premise is based on sheer physical stature and not mental or physical composition. If one is exhausted, then one becomes internally focused, and is ineffective as a combat leader. Fairness and winning in combat are mutually exclusive propositions. I would expect an officer of your seniority, after 12 years of war, to know better.”

    It’s 2016, and she still hasn’t figured it out.

  • Chris

    This was a most excellent post.

    My young son, from the age of five has been taught – and has memorized this: What happens when evil puts a wall in front of a Marine? The Marine goes over, through, around or under the wall. If evil keeps putting up walls, the Marine keeps moving over, through, around or under the wall.

    The wall doesn’t stop the Marine.

    The Marines are an expeditionary force. They take the fight to the enemy, engage them with overwhelming force, allow them to die for their cause, and move on to the next fight. They don’t capture and hold land. They destroy evil, rinse and repeat. They do this until command yanks back on their chain.

    Thank you for your service, Colonel Haring, America is grateful.

    Now stand aside and let the Marines handle the heavy lifting. They’ve been doing it since before day one.

    Surely they’ll get it done.

    P.S. I’m former Air Force; no one disrespects my Marines and gets away without a lecture.

  • L O U

    Ms. Jude and Mr. Wade, Thank you Both for your Service and time in the grinder in Iraq and Afghanistan !!
    It discusses me to hear such garbage that has always followed the Marine Corps since its inception. I was a Hard headed but hard working young Marine Recruit in First RT Bn., Parris Island, SC in ’79. As we were about to graduate, our SDI told us we were robbed of additional training time because of the Carter Administration cutting Boot Camp by 3 weeks. At first I thought how lucky we were, until I got to the Fleet where real Marines whom have passed the test of time, I knew then what he meant.
    1983, I became a hard headed but hard working young Marine DI at Parris Is. Even after going through the course, I realized I had so little experience as a Marine, let alone being a DI and an NCO Leader. Same thing in ’89 when I went back as a SSgt to be an SDI, Boot Camp changed, everyone was walking on egg shells because Congress was debating to make Parris Is. an all Branches Armed Forces Training Facility and considered to possibly disband the Marine Corps. Yup, that’s the way this Army Col. would have loved doing to the Corps, but as you said Ms. Jude, we’ve stood the test of time, time and again.
    Thank GOD for Generals (USMC Commandants) like Gen. Gray and Gen. Krulak for keeping the Corps where it belongs !!
    Semper Fi You Devil Dogs ~ Lou SSgt USMC (Ret.) 79-99

    • john

      I was never a Marine. I was just some young ( and old) corpsman who stayed with the Marines because I loved and respected them…. Besides, they needed adult supervision. To have some ignorant O6 try to tell the Marines what is best for them is egotistical, and self-aggrandizing. I am yet to be convinced that the arguments have any validity. I only retired as a Captain, what should I know?

  • able34bravo

    Please don’t assume that this retired idiot speaks for the Army as a whole.

    • john

      Thank you.

  • Andrew Harwood

    DURING VIETNAM THE ARMY DID SOMETHING ALONG THIS LINE! WOULD INSTALL JR. RANK OFFICERS TO COMBAT UNITS WITH NO INFANTRY TRAINING JUST TO GET THE “CIB” FOR LATER PROMOTION, THESE OFFICERS GOT A LOT OF GOOD AMERICANS KILLED! THIS INFO PROVIDED IN GENERAL SWARTSKOFF’S BOOKN WHO SERVED AS A MAJOR DURING VIETNAM, AND IN A SENSE IS A BROTHER OF MINE! USMC VIETNAM VETEREN 69-71!

  • SF CPT

    I am a retired, life long guerrilla warfare fighter (aka- american green beret) we know for a fact, women can be great warriors. but no amount of wishful thinking will make women as strong as men, as a general rule not the exceptions, as there are plenty. but in the same way we can not by wishful thing alone, make men able to gestate and give birth to baby humans. we are different, us men and women and it’s our differences that bring balance and mutual respect and appreciation. it is one thing to have an all female warrior unit, it is another to try to change biology (be it by God or evolution) just because we don’t like it. that is foolish. and there are other considerations many overlook- MEN think and act differently with women, both sexually and protectively. that DETRACTS from the mission. Women have cycles, that impacts the mission. and oh, the main thing this is about is THE ENEMY- many cultures still hold women as lessor beings and as such, they may rather fight to the death than to surrender to women, which means, we lose more lives in general. folks it takes time. we can and will get there, but we should do it smartly and not bluntly just because someoe has a political agenda or a personal grudge. these are my pea brain thoughts from a knuckle dragger. and by the way, jude is a vet and a great musician!

    • john

      Catain, why do you upvote yourself? It is just objectionable. Other than that, we are agreed.

      • SF CPT

        john, i am no one given much concern for certain social protocols.
        i do it for myself, so i can track where i have been and replied.
        simple organization technique, nothing else.
        i don’t come back to see what others say
        i’m not much bothered either way
        and don’t really need anyone to agree with me
        nor do i feel any need whatsoever to convert anyone if they disagree
        i wrote my response for 2 reasons- jude, she rocks and i support her
        and cause i believe what i wrote from experience
        if it helps, great. if not, folks can ignore
        that simple
        i replied to you, ’cause you seem a decent fellow.
        🙂

        • john

          I seem like a decent fellow? Thanks for that.

          • SF CPT

            sorry, cheesy, but i am a huge princess bride film fan, it was meant as a compliment.
            🙂

          • john

            OH, Man… I am ,too and that went right over my head until you called it to my attention. MY favorite line is, ” I don’t think that word means what you think it means…. “

          • SF CPT

            wonderful! see, a bit of communication and we find a good common ground! and yes, i love that line, too! be well and at peace!

          • john

            Wishing happiness and good health for you and yours. Happy turkey day, when it comes.

          • SF CPT

            and wishing peace and happiness to you and yourn! 🙂

        • Shiloh

          It’s good to mark where you’ve been.

        • john

          I do guess I owe you an apology.

          • SF CPT

            naw, i am too dumb to have even realized it may have been a ‘dig’ at me, so, no need for apologies, we’re all good and wish you only all the best! 🙂
            (still had to ‘up-vote’ myself, haha!)

          • john

            I have a lot of respect for you guys. Did you ever work with USMC ANGLICO? I was a Corpsman with them for years. I turned into a pretty skilled air strike ground observer.

          • john

            I am really retired, this time. I don’t know how old you are, but anyone who has contributed to the safety and peace of our nation is to be respected. I retired on 30 in 1997. I finally retired about 3 years ago.

  • Proud US vet/American

    This “broad” does not speak for the combat soldier, who has known the truth, and lived and died by its hard won victories! The missions of the Marines and the Army are different! They each have their own set of standards and goals to meet. Comparing each others missions is like comparing an Orange to a Tomato. We who have walked the “Warrior’s Path” into battle know this “broad” has not. This fact alone disqualifies her to speak on this topic. Go back to the kitchen darlin’! You already “screwed the pooch” on this subject, try DINNER!

  • David Marshall

    Don’t feel too bad, Colonel Haring. I couldn’t make it as a Marine, either.

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