Have Evangelical Leaders Become Disciples of Donald Trump?

Most evangelical leaders do not turn a blind eye when Trump speaks or acts objectionably.

President Donald Trump arrives to speak to the 2017 Value Voters Summit, Friday, Oct. 13, 2017, in Washington.

By Michael Brown Published on October 16, 2017

A headline on the conservative, RedState website announces, “Trump’s Cheap ‘Merry Christmas’ Christianity Continues To Sway Evangelicals.” Is this true?

According to Kimberly Ross, “Last year, congregants at the Church of Trump stormed into polling places nationwide and voted a godless reality star into the highest office in the land.”

But that was only the beginning. Since then, Ross claims, “It’s been crystal clear that too many Evangelical Trump supporters have not only placed their political faith in the real estate magnate; they have become sold-out disciples for him. It seems as if, in their eyes, the GOP and Christianity are interchangeable.”

What prompted Ross to pen this article now, in October, 2017? It was President Trump’s appearance at FRC’s Values Voter’s Summit. He was the first sitting president to speak at this annual D.C. event. He received a thunderous response when he made clear that we would be saying, “Merry Christmas” again. In the words of Ross, “Home run! And the crowd … goes … wild.”

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Yes, “The proud, starry-eyed Evangelicals who cast their ballot for the Christian-in-Chief believe Trump has miraculously brought faith back to the nation.

“And that is all that matters.”

Is Ross being fair? Yes and no — and that is a very big no.

He’s No Saint Donald

On the “yes” side, we evangelicals can be guilty of making “Merry Christmas” into a big deal, no doubt the result of what we perceive to be the constant attack on our faith. So, when the president pushes the right button and uses the right line in the right setting, he’s sure to get a response.

Overall, saying “Merry Christmas” is the least of our concerns. Ross’s criticisms here are fair.

It’s also true that some evangelicals have been guilty of turning Trump into Saint Donald. He is presented (by a precious few) as a truly Christian man who can do no wrong. A selfless champion of the people whose most unbecoming tweets are justified because of the fierceness of the battle. He is one of us, and he is our hero!

I addressed this concern during the campaign. Since the election, I have urged my fellow-evangelical leaders not to sell their souls in defense of our president. We only discredit ourselves when we ignore his shortcomings.

Worse still, we hurt our witness. People are less likely to hear our message about Jesus when we seem oblivious to the president’s clay feet.

Having said this, I believe that in other, more serious ways, Ross has missed the boat.

Evangelicals Not as Blind as Ross Thinks

In my experience, most evangelical leaders do not turn a blind eye when Trump speaks or acts in a way that we find objectionable. And I know very few leaders who voted for him without reservation, as if we had no reason to be concerned. (For my own reflections last October, see here.)

Instead, we were voting against Hillary. We were voting for someone who would take on the system (including the Republican establishment). We were voting for a man whom we hoped God could use despite there being no evidence that he was an evangelical Christian. In other words, we voted with our eyes wide open, and we continue to have our eyes wide open.

Most evangelicals I know grimace when Trump sends a “Psycho Joe” tweet but rejoice when he appoints a Neil Gorsuch to the Supreme Court.

But were we unjustified in some of our expectations? Were we wrong in thinking that he would stand for religious liberties? Were we wrong in thinking that he would nominate pro-life, conservative justices to the Supreme Court and federal courts? Were we wrong in thinking that he would stand against radical LGBT activism? Were we wrong in thinking that he would be a friend of Israel?

Even Ross admits that “some of Trump’s presidential actions have indeed been worthy of praise by communities of faith (see his recent protection of religious liberty).” But, she continues in the same sentence, “it is his cheap brand of convenient, crowd-pleasing, substance-free Christianity that is truly loathsome.”

I concur that this brand of “Christianity” is loathsome. But it’s not the brand I’m embracing, nor is it the brand my evangelical colleagues are embracing. Instead, we see our biblically-based, sacred, evangelical faith for what it is. And we see the president for who he is: An ally and friend; a fearless, strong-headed leader; a rough and tumble, often impetuous, sometimes unwise, even divisive Commander in Chief.

Seeing Trump for What He Is

But he is not the representative of our faith, nor do we look to him to be a Christian leader, let alone the “Christian in chief.” To repeat: Our eyes are wide open.

At the same time, we will be quick to thank him for doing good. We will stand with him against unfair criticism. We will pray that he will truly know and walk with the Lord.

In my opinion, Ross is reading far too much into the president’s speech at the Values Voter Summit, as if the audience should not have appreciated his presence there. Again, he was the first sitting president to address this convention. Should they have booed, rather than cheered, when he made his “Merry Christmas” comments?

Most evangelicals I know grimace when he sends out a “Psycho Joe” tweet but rejoice when he appoints a Neil Gorsuch to the Supreme Court. They’re willing to put up with the former for the sake of the latter, although they wish the former would finally stop. And you can be assured they are not mistaking Donald Trump for the Apostle Paul. Trust me on that.

 

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  • Howard Rosenbaum

    Well said Dr Brown. How any objective person would challenge your reasoning on this one is remarkable . The church is a vast & diverse group of folks w/many different ways of looking at things, both important & not so important.

    However it’s a source of near constant amazement for me that when it comes to in your face substantiations of this POTUS’s affirmative stance on things of import to the Judeo-Christian community, there seems to be no shortage of animosity & disavowing of this mans commitment to the same. These are often the same folk that will virtually ignore the often blaring animosity displayed by the left towards Christians & their perceived political objectives. This is more than a matter of a difference of opinion. It is more a matter of willful blindness. Though isn’t that what the left ( & some on the right ) have championed since this last election …?!

    • tasha63

      There are many Christians who do NOT support Trump or his agenda. They would argue with you. This is the text of a letter written prior to the election.

      A Declaration by American Evangelicals Concerning Donald Trump
      Evangelical Leaders United States
      Imperfect elections and flawed candidates often make for complicated and difficult choices for Christians. But sometimes historic moments arise when more is at stake than partisan politics–when the meaning and integrity of our faith hangs in the balance. This is one of those moments.
      A significant mistake in American politics is the media’s continued identification of “evangelical” with mostly white, politically conservative, older men. We are not those evangelicals. The media’s narrow labels of our community perpetuate stereotypes, ignore our diversity, and fail to accurately represent views expressed by the full body of evangelical Christians.
      We are Americans of African and European descent, Latino/a, Asian American, and Native American. We are women and men, as well as younger and older evangelical Christians. We come from a wide range of denominations, churches, and political orientations.
      We believe in the unity of the body of Christ, but we acknowledge the diverse nature of a community whose faith is biblical and evangelical. And we are growing. Given the rich diversity within our unity, we call upon the political world to hear all our voices, and for the media to acknowledge that the evangelical community is quite diverse.
      As evangelical Christians, we believe our hope and allegiance rests in the person of Jesus Christ, Savior of the world, and Lord of our lives. That is why no politician, party, movement, or nation can ever command our ultimate loyalty. As citizens both of the Kingdom of God and this world, we vote with humility, knowing that our favored candidates always fall short of biblical values. We recognize that despite our unity in Christ, we will inevitably disagree about which political stances come closest to the heart of God for our nation.
      We believe that the centrality of Christ, the importance of both conversion and discipleship, the authority of the Scriptures, and the “good news” of the gospel, especially for the poor and vulnerable, should prevail over ideological politics, and that we must respond when evangelicalism becomes dangerously identified with one particular candidate whose statements, practice, personal morality, and ideology risk damaging our witness to the gospel before the watching world.
      We believe that racism strikes at the heart of the gospel; we believe that racial justice and reconciliation is at the core of the message of Jesus.
      We believe the candidacy of Donald J. Trump has given voice to a movement that affirms racist elements in white culture—both explicit and implicit. Regardless of his recent retraction, Mr. Trump has spread racist “birther” falsehoods for five years trying to delegitimize and humiliate our first African-American president, characterizing him as “the other” and not a real American citizen. He uses fear to demonize and degrade immigrants, foreigners, and people from different racial, ethnic, and religious backgrounds. He launched his presidential campaign by demonizing Mexicans, immigrants, and Muslims, and has repeatedly spoken against migrants and refugees coming to this country—those whom Jesus calls “the stranger” in Matthew 25, where he says that how we treat them is how we treat him. Trump has steadily refused to clearly and aggressively confront extremist voices and movements of white supremacy, some of whom now call him their “champion,” and has therefore helped to take the dangerous fringes of white nationalism in America to the mainstream of politics.
      Mr. Trump has fueled white American nationalism with xenophobic appeals and religious intolerance at the expense of gospel values, democratic principles, and important international relationships. He mocks women and the sanctity of marriage vows, disregards facts and the accountability to truth, and worships wealth and shameful materialism, while taking our weakening culture of civility to nearly unprecedented levels with continuing personal attacks on others, including attacking a federal judge based purely on his Mexican heritage, mocking a disabled reporter, and humiliating a beauty pageant winner for her weight and Latina ethnicity—to give just a few examples.
      Because we believe that racial bigotry has been a cornerstone of this campaign, it is a foundational matter of the gospel for us in this election, and not just another issue. This is not just a social problem, but a fundamental wrong. Racism is America’s original sin. Its brazen use to win elections threatens to reverse real progress on racial equity and set America back.
      Donald Trump’s campaign is the most recent and extreme version of a history of racialized politics that has been pursued and about which white evangelicals, in particular, have been silent. The silence in previous times has set the environment for what we now see.
      For this reason, we cannot ignore this bigotry, set it aside, just focus on other issues, or forget the things Mr. Trump has consistently said and done. No matter what other issues we also care about, we have to make it publicly clear that Mr. Trump’s racial and religious bigotry and treatment of women is morally unacceptable to us as evangelical Christians, as we attempt to model Jesus’ command to “love your neighbors as yourself.”
      Whether we support Mr. Trump’s political opponent is not the question here. Hillary Clinton is both supported and distrusted by a variety of Christian voters. We, undersigned evangelicals, simply will not tolerate the racial, religious, and gender bigotry that Donald Trump has consistently and deliberately fueled, no matter how else we choose to vote or not to vote.
      We see this election as a significant teachable moment for our churches and our nation to bring about long-needed repentance from our racial sin. Out of this belief we have written this declaration, inviting you to be part of what we have learned from one another and long to see in the churches and the world—a commitment to justice and the dignity of all human lives.
      We invite you to stand with us, join in this declaration, and pass it along to your friends, congregants, pastors, students, and the diverse evangelical church.
      Bishop Claude Alexander, Senior Pastor, The Park Church *
      Onleilove Alston, Executive Director, Faith in NY*
      David M. Bailey, Executive Director, Arrabon*
      Dr. Leroy Barber, Executive Director, The Voices Project*
      Rev. William Barber, President, Repairers of the Breach*
      Katelyn Beaty, Print Managing Editor, Christianity Today*
      Dr. Timothy Tee Boddie, General Secretary, Progressive National Baptist Convention*
      Rev. Dr. Peter Borgdorff, Executive Director Emeritus, Christian Reformed Church in North America*
      Rev. Jonathan E.L. Brooks, Senior Pastor, Canaan Community Church, Chicago*
      Austin Channing Brown, Writer and Speaker*
      Deborah Brunt, Blogger and Author*
      Rev. Dr. Tony Campolo, Author and Activist*
      Rev. Dr. Mae Elise Cannon, Author*
      Vanessa Carter, Founding member, Jesus for Revolutionaries (Los Angeles)*
      Dr. Shawn Casselberry, Executive Director, Mission Year*
      Noel Castellanos, Chief Executive Officer, CCDA*
      Rev. Eugene Cho, Pastor, Author, Activist*
      Rev. Dr. Rich Cizik, President and Founder, New Evangelical Partnership*
      Shane Claiborne, Author, Activist, and Co-Founder of Red Letter Christians*
      Shani Dowell, Mother, Wife, Educator*
      Keith Drury*
      Rev. Joshua DuBois, Founder and CEO, Values Partnerships, Washington, DC; President Obama’s “Pastor in Chief”*
      Rev. Dr. Gerald L. Durley, Pastor Emeritus, Providence Baptist Church*
      Rev. Dr. Bob Ekblad, General Director, Tierra Nueva*
      Michael O. Emerson, Author*
      Erina Eubanks-Kim, Activist*
      Jason Fileta, Executive Director, Micah Challenge USA*
      Barbara Fiske, Community Advocate*
      Dr. Robert M. Franklin, Director of the Religion Department, Chautauqua Institution*
      Dave Gibbons, Founder, Newsong and Xealots
      Marlena Graves, Author, Speaker, Activist*
      Rev. Dominique Gilliard, New Hope Covenant Church*
      Rev. Wes Granberg-Michaelson, General Secretary Emeritus, Reformed Church in America*
      Dr. Mimi Haddad, President of Christians for Biblical Equality, CBEInternational*
      Rev. Cynthia Hale, Senior Pastor, Ray of Hope Christian Church*
      Lisa Sharon Harper, Chief Church Engagement Officer, Sojourners*
      Rev. Fred Harrell, Senior Pastor, City Church, San Francisco*
      Rev. Dr. Bethany Harris, Church & Community Consultant, ReQuip Community*
      Rachel Held Evans*
      Rev. Dr. Peter Heltzel, Associate Professor of Theology, New York Theological Seminary*
      Christopher L. Heuertz, Founding Partner of Gravity, a Center for Contemplative Activism*
      Dr. Mike Higgins, Covenant Theological Seminary*
      Michelle Higgins, Director of Faith for Justice, Director of Worship and Outreach, South City Church in Saint Louis, MO*
      Rev. Daniel Hill, River City Community Church*
      Angie Hong, Worship Leader, Writer, Program Lead, Willow Chicago*
      Dr. Al Hsu, Editor and Author*
      David Husby, Director, Covenant World Relief*
      Hyepin Im, President and CEO, Korean Churches for Community Development*
      Carolyn Custis James, Author*
      Dr. Russell Jeung, Author and Professor, New Hope Covenant Church*
      David W. Kersten, Dean, North Park Theological Seminary, Chicago*
      Kathy Khang, Writer, Speaker, Activist*
      Larry Kim, Cambridge Community Fellowship Church*
      Ambassador Jo Anne Lyon, General Superintendent Emerita, The Wesleyan Church*
      Rev. Carlos Malave, Executive Director, Christian Churches Together in the USA*
      Amelia Markham, Southeast organizer, The Reformation Project*
      Rev. Michael A. Mata, Associate Pastor, Los Angeles First Church of the Nazarene*
      Rev. Dr. Walter Arthur McCray, President, National Black Evangelical Association*
      Rev. Brian D. McLaren, Author, former Pastor, Board Chair, Convergenceus
      David Neff, retired Editor-in-Chief, Christianity Today, former Vice Chair, National Association of Evangelicals*
      Rev. Dr. James C. Perkins, President, Progressive National Baptist Convention*
      Suzii Paynter, Executive Coordinator, Cooperative Baptist Fellowship*
      Rev. Adam Phillips, Pastor, Christ Church, Portland*
      Dr. Soong-Chan Rah, North Park Theological Seminary*
      Dr. Brenda Salter McNeil*
      Rev. Alexia Salvatierra, Faith-Rooted Organizing UnNetwork*
      Scot Sherman, Executive Director, Newbigin House*
      SueAnn Shiah, Musician, Writer, Filmmaker*
      Rev. Dr. Ron Sider, President Emeritus, Evangelicals for Social Action*
      Dr. Barbara Williams Skinner, President, Skinner Leadership Institute; Co-chair, National African American Clergy Network*
      Andrea Smith, NAIITS*
      Dr. T. Dewitt Smith, Jr., Co-Chair of the National African American Clergy Network, Former President of the Progressive National Baptist Convention, Inc.; Senior Pastor, Trinity Baptist Church of Metro Atlanta*
      Maria-Jose Soerens, Executive Director, Puentes*
      Rev. Gail Song-Bantum, Executive Pastor, Quest Church*
      Rev. Margot Starbuck
      Rev. David Swanson, New Community Covenant Church, Chicago*
      Rev. Rod Thomas, ThM, Educator, writer at The Resist Daily*
      Rev. Greg Thompson, Trinity Presbyterian Church*
      Lenore Three Stars, Oglala Lakota*
      Rev. Steven Timmermans, Executive Director, Christian Reformed Church in North America*
      Rev. Jemar L. Tisby, President and Co-Founder, Reformed African American Network*
      Rev. Dr. Al Tizon, North Park Theological Seminary*
      Nikki Toyama-Szeto, Author and Speaker*
      Rev. Harold Dean Trulear, National Director, Healing Communities USA*
      Sandra Maria Van Opstal, Speaker, Author, Activist*
      Rev. Gary VanderPol, Author, Senior Pastor, Church Without Walls, Berkeley, CA*
      AnaYelsi Velasco-Sanchez, Organizing and Programs Director, The Reformation Project*
      Rev. Richard Villodas, Pastor, New Life Fellowship*
      Dr. Chanequa Walker-Barnes, Associate Professor of Practical Theology, McAfee School of Theology, Mercer University*
      Rev. Jim Wallis, President and Founder, Sojourners*
      Michelle Warren, Advocacy & Policy Engagement Director, CCDA*
      Lisa Watson, CCDA*
      Colin P. Watson Sr., Director of Ministries and Administration, Christian Reformed Church in North America*
      Dr. Daniel White Hodge, Director of Center for Youth Ministry Studies and Associate Professor of Youth Ministry, North Park University*
      Rev. Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove, Author and Director, School for Conversion*
      Sarah Withrow King, Interim Director, Evangelicals for Social Action*
      Dr. John D. Witvliet, Director, Calvin Institute of Christian Worship*
      JR Woodward, Activist and Author*
      Judy Wu Dominick, Writer, Activist*
      Rev. Ken Wytsma, Lead Pastor, Antioch Church; President, Kilns College*

      • Chip Crawford

        Hey those many people would argue with a telephone pole ! You’re not in good company.

        • tasha63

          Those ‘many people’ are your fellow evangelicals.

          • Chip Crawford

            We don’t all agree. So? Waiting for substance from you is a long wait … and proof of anything ? Don’t ever get into a courtroom. You can’t just bluster around with your impressions and prejudices there, accusing and villifying.

          • tasha63

            I am very glad all evangelicals don’t agree. But, 80% of them evidently did agree enough to vote for Trump.

            I don’t feel like I get much substance off this site actually which is why I write here. Trying to inject some sort of conversation and a different point of view.

            But as long as ‘having faith’ means leaving your own ability to question and look for answers behind then I’m not likely to find much substance.

  • Hmmm…

    Answer to the article title question, unequivocal NO. Of course, that will be alleged. I am in and out of websites of some of those on the presidential Faith Council, regularly hear their sermons because I was already interested in their perspectives. It is a wide mix of folks, about whom it is stated that they flow together very well – harmony with disparate beliefs, no less. James Robison has stated here his being allowed to speak into the president’s life, and some of the corrective things he has said. Others do so as well. It’s appropriately done in private. That does not, however, make them responsible for whether or not he follows through.

    This group and others like those strong churches he visited in Detroit in their services, are so authentic that the cumulative effect has given credibility for the things of God to a man who was a skeptic. Very importantly with this, they have given God’s love. It’s brought him to the point of yielding himself to their corporate prayers, their counsel, even to making himself subject to corrective input. They have declared their perspective at his request, and he is seeing to that. They’ve sold out nothing in exchange for this. I do not believe they have or would compromise integrity or the things of God, certainly most of them.

    Christianity, spiritual presence and authority and the anointing and all such things of God are real and very impressive to those who experience them for the first time. Mr. Trump has experienced these in his campaign era exposure to some very solid and empowered Christians. He attests that it has changed him. Of course, he has a way to go. But this factor is sound and true and an answer to prayer. Then again, the ignorant and ill intended will always malign such and express their lack of knowledge and caring about the things of God. But we continue to give thanks and lend our faith and invest our prayers into God’s working in our leaders and our nation.

    • tasha63

      It may not make them personally responsible for Trump’s actions…but it does make them responsible for supporting him, colluding with him if you will, and for voting for him.

      I do understand the dislike of Hillary. She was not my first choice either. BUT, she was far less ‘evil’ (I wouldn’t even use that term for her at all) than Trump. Trump, to me, is evil and destructive.

      • Chip Crawford

        You’ve got it back don’t you, honey. I’m sorry. Does it hurt? Awww ….

        • tasha63

          Yes, it does hurt. Every day, what he is doing to this country. It hurts that so many of my fellow Americans are turning their backs and supporting this man. It hurts that they would choose to support his destructive ways and seem so blind to it.

          • Chip Crawford

            And now you know how we feel about you and those who live in that blind alley. We prayed for deliverance from poor misguided Mr. Obama and his ruinous ways. God is turning it around. He uses flawed vessels, because that’s the only kind he has. You were losing your country and your freedom.

          • tasha63

            Saying he uses flawed vessels is an excuse for the very real votes of men (and some women) for Mr. Trump. Don’t blame God for this. This was a human decision.

          • Chip Crawford

            Many are guided by him. I pray you come to know him. He is a knowable person. He communicates with those open to him by his spirit through impressions, thoughts, his word. Your statements on God’s ways reveal clearly that you don’t know him and his ways and his word. I pray you do.

          • Jim Walker

            How is he destroying the country with this ?

            Birth control – it kills the baby inside.
            Repeal Obamacare – Its a double edged sword, but repealing is the better option
            Bring back religious freedom – How can this hurt ?
            Strengthen our military – Let those radicals feel the hurt
            Bring back jobs – Yes it hurt those who are so addicted to handouts from Democrats
            Improve the economy – you’d probably want free stuff and the rich pay for it.
            Pro Israel – go read up why.

            Nothing that he is doing is bad for this country.

          • tasha63

            Rpealing Obamacare will throw millions of people off health care entirely. And the sick / elderly will pay a LOT more.

            Bringing back religious freedom? Hardly. Not when he is ejecting Muslims from this country. Not when we must all now be a “Christian” country even though we are a very diverse country. You can’t force religion down anyone’s throat, you know.

            We are already the STRONGEST military in the world. How many wars has that won us recently?

            Bring back jobs. Well, let’s see. A recent article in Money said this: Employers added 1,189,000 jobs in February through August, according to data released Friday. That falls short of the 1,375,000 jobs created during Obama’s last seven months. That means Trump is trailing Obama by 186,000 jobs when you compare the end of one presidency to the start of another. Here’s another way to look at it: How is Trump faring on a straight year-over-year basis? He lags Obama there, too. There have been 1,189,000 jobs created under his watch so far, compared to 1,422,000 between February and August 2016.

            Economy – I don’t want free stuff and I’ve never asked for any quite frankly. But, yes, I believe the rich should be paying their fair share of taxes. Corporations too.

            Pro-Israel. Look, my husband’s family is Jewish. But, I am not blindly pro-Israel. The Palestinians have a right to a homeland too. I don’t particularly like Netanyahu.

            PP- I am not going to get into the abortion issue here because it is not a winnable one. BUT, PP does much more than abortions. And, birth control is essential for women. A human health right.

      • Jim Walker

        Don’t let the nice smile and fake demeanor fool you.
        The devil will never appear to be a rough, unpolished person like Trump.

        • tasha63

          How do you know?

          • Jim Walker

            you won’t buy stuff from unfriendly salesman do you ?

          • tasha63

            You think Trump is friendly? I don’t. I’m not buying either.

  • Patmos

    Why even respond to that rubbish? It hardly passes as a blog piece, let alone legitimate news commentary. The evidence she presented to back her case was nil, and she was answering a question no one was asking. The five people that read it will have forgotten it within an hour.

    • john appleseed

      Because millions of non-Christians are asking the same question.
      And because a few very public professing believers do seem to be Donald’s Disciples.

      • tasha63

        Yes, yes!

        • Chip Crawford

          No, No

      • Chip Crawford

        Oh for eyes to SEE. They are leading and guiding him, not following him. Those people know God personally and are being used of him. And you malign and persecute them for it. What’s up with that?!

        • tasha63

          I think they are likely all Trump’s fools then.

          • Chip Crawford

            And you have shown yourself here to be a blind, ruthless hater with no responsibility to any facts or truth. You won’t even read thru something enough to get it straight. Good grief. Problem is, there are so many doing this same trash. God bless you. I hope you come to know him in spirit and truth.

          • tasha63

            I am not sure what it is I am suppose to read through for you. Please be very specific.

          • Chip Crawford

            Yes, I see, you need help and thinks spelled out. I can try to explain the obvious, but I can’t make you comprehend, so try very hard. T-H-E A-R-T-I-C-L-E W-E A-R-E C-O-M-M-E-N-T-I-N-G O-N. The first lines provide the needed reference.

          • tasha63

            I just read it. No one was very clear about what they were referring to. Anyway, I totally agree with that article.

          • Jim Walker

            This is extremely rude.

          • tasha63

            Maybe, but that is how I feel about them. They may be sincere themselves. But the man they are trying to work with is not.

    • tasha63

      Dr. Brown wrote it, not a woman.

      • Ken Abbott

        Patmos refers to the RedState article by Kim Ross.

      • Chip Crawford

        Nope, another rush to judgment, tasha dear. A woman did indeed write the blog to which Dr. Brown refers. Bless your heart.

        • tasha63

          I am referring to the article above. I don’t know what blog piece you are referring to.

          • Chip Crawford

            the article is about that blog piece. Please read. Again, truth – facts !! Good grief. I’m sorry, but this really gets old !!

  • tasha63

    Maybe, by being a vote AGAINST Hillary, you all voted for the Anti-Christ? Just tossing this out as a possibility.

    Trump seems pretty un-Christian to me. As though his new-found faith came at the behest of political expedience.

    • Hmmm…

      No, that’s not the case. It tracks. People watching him saw his beginnings of interest and attention. However, he is not all-in as to Christian commitment. He’s running many areas of his life himself. That’s what you are seeing and so are most Christians. God pulls for people to make it, who are weak and needy — hey, they need it. He’s in that category. He’s been affected by the things of God, but certainly has a ways to go. You don’t condemn babies because they’re not grown up yet. I try to not just cringe, but pray with the many occurrences of his sins and errors. But other things are going on with him, and he is doing a lot of right things. Please don’t think everybody’s missing it but you. The people around him in support are not fooled in any way and have no hero worship. They are on board to help steer this ship. There’s more going on with this than is seen on the ground. Best not to scratch with the chickens, but to mount up with wings like the eagle for a wider view. IMHO 🙂

      • tasha63

        I think his beginnings of interests and attention weren’t because of a new-found Christian faith. It was because he so badly wanted the job of President that he would do anything for it (including possibly colluding with Russia). He also wanted revenge on Obama for the WH Correspondents Dinner where he was taken to task and couldn’t handle it. Honestly, I wished Obama had never done that, but I can hardly blame him after all the birther nonsense for so very long. After all, it appears Trump wants to ‘win’ no matter the cost to anyone or anything.

        • Elizabeth Litts

          Still buying the Russia B888sh**

          • Chip Crawford

            And drinking the kool-aid …

          • tasha63

            Ahhhh….the standard statement when one doesn’t have a good (and logical) argument.

          • Chip Crawford

            No, not everyone is like you. Please stop splashing that old brown swamp water

          • tasha63

            Absolutely. Look Flynn and Manafort resigned in disgrace over it. Mueller isn’t done yet. Time will tell. But, yes, I think Trump is involved and I believe he will eventually be impeached.

          • Chip Crawford

            “Time will tell” again. Search cliche lists online and find some new ones, PLEASE

        • Jim Walker

          Obama’s birth cert is fake and its proven.

          • tasha63

            OMG! I can’t believe you are saying that Jim. It was NOT fake and it was NEVER proven to be so. That is just the oldest MOST FAKE news I have heard in a month. Trump has got you, hook, line and sinker. I am sorry for that.

            And, there is a very racist element of Trump’s saying this on and on. EVEN TRUMP finally admitted this IS NOT TRUE.

          • tasha63

            http(colon)(slash)(Slash)www(dot)cnn(dot)com(slash)2016(slash)09(slash)15(slash)politics(slash)donald-trump-obama-birther-united-states(slash)inde(dot).html

            Trump himself stating, near end of video, that “President Barack Obama was born in the United States. Period.

          • Jim Walker

            That was old news….

          • tasha63

            Trump himself finally said it was not true.

            This is an instance of you just want to believe it is true so you can justify your convictions about both Trump AND Obama.

        • Chip Crawford

          He badly wanted to help pull his country out of Obama’s sabotage and mismanagement. Mr. Trump is a game changer, a swamp drainer, a disrupter. Go ahead and howl, swamp creature. Never mind your very shallow, ignorance of his path in the evangelical relationship. It is lovely and God honoring, and I will not cast those pearls before swine.

          • tasha63

            As I’ve said before, I think you are being hoodwinked. Time will tell.

          • Chip Crawford

            Poor swamp creature; happy to wallow around in the waste material.

          • tasha63

            You have no appreciation for real swamps. They aren’t waste material. They are life giving, water purifying wetlands.

          • tasha63

            I agree with you about the disrupter and game changer part.

            But, I don’t like the games he plays and he is filling the swamp, not draining it.

    • john appleseed

      I don’t see any faith at all in Trump, “new-found” or not.
      He’s still profane, vindictive, & proud.

      Policy-wise, he’s inconsistent, albeit much better than Hillary would have been.
      But Hillary would not have tarnished the GOP brand like Trump has.
      Hillary would not use GOP resources to oppose the best conservatives in Congress.

      “Anti-Christ”? I hope not, but that’s not impossible.

      • tasha63

        Well, it seems to me lots of people get labeled the anti-Christ (including one of my relatives!!! By a Nazarene minister!! Just because she expressed her opinion politely).

        I am glad you don’t see any faith at all in Trump because neither do I. I think many have pinned their hopes on him and he is just using that, quite frankly. If I see, in the future, true signs of faith from him, I will be honest and say so.

        Policy wise he is all over the map if you look back in his life.

        I agree with you on Hillary as well.

        Thanks for your comments.

        • Chip Crawford

          He has evolved in his policy as so have the times and so requires actually being in the oval office. I hope you find things to like. BTW, with all due respect, one has to have eyes to see, and the looking down and around view has a way of keeping the blinders in place. Can you not appreciate the many men and women of stature who are in this service because his listened to counsel to get them on board? Or are they all dogs too … Oh well, just please don’t get as bad as Eeyore … 🙂

          • tasha63

            Look what he is doing to women – defunding birth control. How ironic given that many don’t approve of abortions. Now there will be more unwanted pregnancies than ever with back alley abortions.
            Look what he is doing to the environment – defunding the EPA, bringing back dirty coal and denying climate change.
            Look what he is doing to minorities. He said he was going to go after the criminal element among illegals and he has done much more than that…going after families, children, DACA.
            Look at what he is doing with North Korea – risking NUCLEAR war in his bizarre exchange of taunts with Kim Jong Un.
            Look at what he is doing to Health Care, trying to gut it via executive action (never mind that he berated Obama’s actions as unconstitutional).
            And, poor Puerto Rico. Left in the dark. Of course, even tho they are Americans, they can’t vote for him and he knows it. Better to save Florida and Texas where he ‘won’. And California? How much do you hear from him about the devastating wildfires? No love lost there.

            And on and on.

            I only hope that there are enough decent people around him to contain all the messes he is making.

          • Chip Crawford

            There are varying views on some of the positions you take, which you cannot insist we all agree with. Many of us felt Mr. Obama’s policies were injurious and wrong. Some of the social issues you mention, such as abortion are grossly immoral and against God’s heart and law. I don’t care if a whole party has affirmed it as a woman’s right. Someone has to look after the innocent being involved. That is evil, to my view. Again, I think your assessments and even facts are off on some of this you set out here. What you say about Puerto Rico you cannot prove and there is a definite other side to that situation. You cannot successfully just apply evil hearted and mean spirited motives and villify those with whom you disagree. More than half the country agrees with many of Mr. Trump’s policy changes.

          • tasha63

            What is the other side to the situation in PR? All I hear is that the country remains largely without electricity and limited access to safe drinking water. Frankly, if that had happened in Florida and Texas, there’d be outrage.

            Oh, I forgot. Texans and Floridians can vote for President. Puerto Ricans can’t. Hmmmm….

          • Hmmm…

            “All you hear” reveals intake of imbalanced news coverage.
            There was an entry in the New York Post from a local head of an international firm apologizing for the corruption and mismanagement of his country, past, present and likely future. He gave examples of curfews imposed, then immediately changed to another block of hours, and supply trucks prevented from being on the roads at those times. It didn’t occur to them that that would happen, so oops, the supply trucks should have been exempted and kept running 24 hours a day.
            Local areas receiving truckloads of supplies are found to be appropriating them to their cronies and many are left with none.
            The governor is well meaning, but very inexperienced along with those around him. However the San Juan mayor is not even well meaning. She counters her own governor’s orders with some of her own. She told a reporter that you don’t tell women what to do in San Juan. She intimates a small supply from FEMA and much more from others, when the docks are shown full of shiploads, trailer loads as far as one can see.
            One problem they had was that the people in the country do not help each other like in TX, FL and CA. They would not come to drive the trucks to the places of need, so the Federal effort had to come up with thousands of drivers as well. They have done some road clearing where they live, etc., because their local agencies are crooked and incompetent and rebellious against their own governor’s dictates.
            Puerto Rico is running over with military personnel and supplies, but the hindrances, corruption and roadblocks to its execution differ entirely from the other disaster areas.
            That’s a part you haven’t heard. You can find Mr. Rodriquez’s article online if interested. It is common knowledge that our major media is no longer an objective source of reporting. One has to observe a fuller range from other channels.

          • Jim Walker

            defunding birth control – that’s not birth control, that’s child sacrifice. You call yourself a Christian and you endorse this ?

          • tasha63

            Effective birth control PREVENTS pregnancy in the first place. No pregnancy, no abortion.

      • Chip Crawford

        You can’t see faith; it’s toward God, not men.
        He cusses in his rallies a little, yes; he does have a hit back harder thing that can get very petty. And pride is maybe his worst stumbling block.

        His policies are not inconsistent with his promises, maybe with your preferences. A lot of his follow through is very heartening to many. The GOP “brand” has emerged in division and vacillation. That was happening over time before Mr. T came along. Don’t know what GOP resources to which you refer. He has made needless enemies.

        BUT, with HRC there, we would already be down the rabbit hole having misadventures, meeting all the wild and crazy creatures there. Some of us might be on the run from that crazy Queen of Hearts and the soldiers of her house of cards.

        At least we are still in Kansas.

        Know what I mean, Vern?

        • tasha63

          I judge him based on what I hear and see from him. That is faith, or lack of it, in action. I think you may be imparting qualities to this man that just aren’t there, hoping for what you want and talking yourself into believing it.

          • Chip Crawford

            Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. I think you may be imparting your own facts and definitions even. You’re welcome to do that, but you can’t insist others go along. There are definite stands and policies put in place that are good. That matters a lot. Don’t worry about any bad behavior. He’ll reap it back on his head. Life does that. Oh yeah. One scripture that speaks to me about him is in Obadiah and the pride of the heart deceiving. Pride takes a fall after a while.

          • tasha63

            I do worry about bad behavior from him. He is seconds from the nuclear code.

            If faith is hoping for things unseen, then I think that can get to be an excuse for inaction when you DO see things that need changing.

          • Chip Crawford

            oh wow … it’s hopeless …

            I’ll try though. Just one point, I’ll try. Ma’am there are checks and balances on the nuclear code execution. I’m sorry they didn’t tell you that on your talking point channels.

          • tasha63

            Incorrect.
            “Is there any check on a president’s power to launch nuclear arms that could destroy entire cities or nations?

            The short answer is no, though history suggests that in practice, there may be ways to slow down or even derail the decision-making process. No one disputes, however, that the president has an awesome authority.”

      • Elizabeth Litts

        “Let he without sin amoung you….” He is doing the best he can and he is surrounding himself with Godly people. He is also a new Christ follower.

        • tasha63

          Godly people?? Like Steve Bannon? Mike Flynn? Paul Manafort? His family?? Such nepotism!

      • Howard Rosenbaum

        Tarnished the GOP brand ?! You’ve got to be kidding. Their “brand” has been tarnished before Trump upset the balance among those who have been hiding behind the skirt of a previous administration’s duplicitous agenda. Come on, theres a swamp starting to drain here. Compromise to the principles of the republican platform that have been quietly swept under the rug by those who elevate their political careers & globalist agendas above the best interests of a nation is not a brand. What Trump has done is cause the light to shine upon these professional politicians whose days will surely be numbered …

        • Chip Crawford

          Yeppers; good feller; I like him. Got his head on straight.

        • tasha63

          No, there is a swamp building up to enormous proportions now. And the public seems blind.

          • Howard Rosenbaum

            Sure, theres enough swamp to go around for all the antagonists reeling against this administration – just be sure to wipe your feet before you sit down on your couch for some inspiration from the lefts perennial spin machines …

      • Linda

        Well said.

      • Jim Walker

        You are being fed so much of PC, you only like to see the faked faces of Obama and Hillary.

        • tasha63

          I get to hate the term PC. Saying we have become “too PC” is an excuse.

          Being PC to me means being sensitive of and aware of the feelings of people that come from a very different life perspective. It is a start toward overcoming racial injustices, discrimination against others based on sexual orientation or gender, etc.

          Not being PC aware shows a willingness to stomp on the rights of others.

          • Chip Crawford

            Nope. Political correctness is a club the left has come up with to accuse and worse those with whom they cannot debate for their own lack of solid points and reasons for their increasingly contrary positions.

    • Elizabeth Litts

      Tasha–do you know the man personally? and Do you pray for him?

      • tasha63

        Of course I do not know him personally, nor he, me. Frankly, the only prayer I have is that he will soon be impeached. I really, really dislike what I see from him. And, I judge him based on his actions.

        But, I doubt you know him personally either.

    • Ken Abbott

      Who is this “you all,” Kemosabe? I voted third-party last election.

      • tasha63

        Well, good. I take that back. But, all I hear are complaints about Hillary.

  • john appleseed

    You’re right, Dr Brown, regarding saying “Merry Christmas” being the least of our concerns.
    I’m so weary of those legalistic types who demand that everyone says “Merry Christmas”.
    When we try to force sinners to act like devout Christians, they will resist the real message of Christmas.

    Instead of being hostile, we ought to be thankful that millions of sinners everywhere celebrate Jesus’ birth!
    Imagine hearing Gospel-packed songs like Joy To The World on secular radio at any other time.

    I always prefer to say “Merry Christmas”, but if a Buddhist or a Muslim or an atheist wishes me “Happy Holidays”, I say, “Thank you, you too!”

    • tasha63

      Thank you. I appreciate your position.

    • Chip Crawford

      No thanks, I don’t think you have an accurate position. It’s all this “Happy Holidays” and “Seasons Greetings” that all the lemmings have imposed on us. MERRY CHRISTMAS Johnny and Tasha!! May God bless us all !!

      • tasha63

        You are free to say whatever you wish. No one has imposed anything on you. Rather, I am feeling that those who insist that “Merry Christmas” is the only proper thing to say are the ones doing the imposing – and it is petty.

        • Chip Crawford

          more yadda, yadda. Imposed is on the record, and you cannot erase it tasha63. Greeting cards, signs, everything has gone with the Happy holidays, etc. MC has been stripped from the “holiday” scene. The winter break from school and all that. It’s just true. I can see why you would want to deny association with it because it is so dumb. And please don’t call people names and judge them for things you don’t have straight. It’s childish even if you were right about what you are saying.

          • tasha63

            a) the Winter Break from school has existed FOR YEARS. I am in my 60’s and we had ‘winter break’ when I was a kid. Ditto for my parents in their late 80’s. This is nothing new.

            Just do a google image search under Christmas Cards (don’t affect it by saying Merry Christmas or Season’s greeting).. Many -actually most- still say Merry Christmas. You can certainly buy “Merry Christmas” cards or religiously themed cards if you want to do so. You also have the option not to do so. Look there are many out there that aren’t Christians. They may be Jewish, Muslim or Bahai’s. They may be atheists. They can choose whatever is appropriate for them – or send nothing at all. You can make the same choice.

            I think this whole thing is stupid and a great example of Trump’s playing to the Christian persecution complex in this country.

            You, personally, can choose to believe whatever you believe. But you can’t, and don’t have the right, to force it on everyone else. THAT is true persecution.

          • Chip Crawford

            No, it’s not happening and actually is not true persecution, which this country knows nothing about so far, but that doesn’t keep some from prattling on about it when the sun comes out and their snowflake starts to melt. Did I call your name?

  • Thank you Lord we have Trump as our leader and NOT HRC. I hope you ALL are praying for Trump to be the man GOD wants him to be. As Franklin graham said
    As a Christian, I appreciate the position that President Donald J. Trump takes relating to God. He isn’t afraid to be identified with God or His Son, Jesus Christ. There are many politicians in Washington who would like nothing better than for our nation to become a godless, secular society where the government is the “All-in-all,” and people look to government for everything instead of looking to God. President Trump said in a great speech yesterday, “In America, we don’t worship government — we worship God.” Thank you, Mr. President! THINK were we would be if HRC and her secular administration was in office.

    • Chip Crawford

      You make a good point. He does call on God and lift him up in these speeches. He doesn’t just do it around those faith based groups either. I think it’s real, and represents a pocket of tenderness and goodness that those who know him privately say is very much there.

      Yes, let’s pray he let God into other areas of his life to be in charge there as well.

      As for his faults and shortcomings, to all the naysayers, I’m reminded of the wise words of an old sage, “You’re not such a hot rod yourself.” The end.

      • tasha63

        I may not be a hot rod, but I recognize a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

        • Chip Crawford

          Good thing you’ve picked up a lot of cliches to have something to say

          • tasha63

            Sad you don’t have much of a rebuttal.

    • That’s typically the response I get when I ask people exactly what it is they actually LIKE about Donald Trump: “He isn’t Hillary Clinton!”

      Donald Trump has been quoted as saying that his favorite book is the Bible. Do you actually BELIEVE that? I should think his favorite book is “The Art of the Deal” (by Donald Trump). The multiple marriages, the incredibly boorish comments and behavior toward women, the relentless boasting and narcissism? Trump is everything I find utterly repugnant in a human being. I couldn’t vote for him if he was a liberal Democrat. BUT …. the fact that he’s not HRC gives him a pass on everything.

      You think Donald Trump is a God-fearing Christian? You’re a sucker.

      • Chip Crawford

        Wonder how we’d do if we were to ask you exactly, for starters:
        What it is about Trump that :
        Is incredibly boorish – please be recent and specific
        Behavior toward women – recent and specific
        Are you a God-fearing man? A Christian?

        • You haven’t been paying attention, have you?

          • Chip Crawford

            Sorry, my attention does drift off from your entries from time to time. However, I understand you cannot actually answer real questions.

      • Hmmm…

        When Candidate Trump talked about getting our country back, I heard something unspoken in my own head and heart that I hadn’t heard anywhere else. When he went on to talk about jobs going overseas, companies gone, I thought, huh? Can something be done about that? He thought so. Then he talked about trade … NOBODY ever mentioned trade.

        It’s fresh eyes and enough nerve and verve to go for it, buddy. I knew he loved his country and had thought about what he was talking about for a long time. It’s the same for many, many across the nation, including Guiliani, Sessions, Gingrich and many more. Some can talk these things, but this wildcat, wild card had something that told you he could do it.

        I think he has stepped up and stepped out. It’s courage, a lot of it. the ability is there. Oh, the challenge to PC, one the worst blights our country has EVER been afflicted with.

        Yes, his act needs work. And that’s all you see and want to talk about. Wow. If we started now and went into next week, we could fill it all up with data on the garbage bags left unemptied all over Washington, D.C. I’m not a sucker; you’re a mucker.

        • You know, he could use social media, Twitter in particular, to articulate his policy positions. Instead he acts like a stuck-up middle school cheerleader with a smartphone: “Amber and Britney are total LOSERS. They’re just jealous cause I’m homecoming queen and they’re NOT! #bitches”

          • Hmmm…

            He is unprofessional in the most commonly understood context. We’re not used to that. I don’t like it. Nobody does.

            But … he is turning things around in this country in a way that I think is right, good and vitally needed. It may be reversed not too far down the road, because the globalist push is very strong. But we have a window in which to get some things fixed, ordered and so forth. He’s stood up to things nobody’s had the guts to do.
            It’s like Paul Ryan said to the latest question about an objectionable tweet: We’ve learned to live with it. I missed what he said before that, probably: We don’t like it, but …

            And that “but” for me are the things I’ve mentioned and more that are so vital … It’s majoring in majors, and casting the care of the other over on the one who cares more. Many Christian leaders, including those in his Faith Council stand with that, working in the window that is open now for their influence, and many in the pews pray and trust God for that and the many, many grievous issues eating the heart out of our nation.

          • tasha63

            You are likely right. When someone like Trump starts doing most of his laws by executive order, things will get undone by the next president. Didn’t he learn anything from Obama? This is a set up for culture wars to continue indefinitely. There will be a big backlash, I’m sure.

          • Chip Crawford

            Thank you for sharing the daily talking points on the boob tube’s lower rated propaganda channels. Where sponges go to juice up so they can spout out

          • tasha63

            I don’t watch the boob tube at all, ever. I watch Trump.

          • tasha63

            Did you know that the FRC (aka James Dobson’s group) has been listed as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center?

            https(colon)(slash)(slash)www(dot)splcenter(dot)org(slash)fighting-hate(slash)extremist-files(slash)group(slash)family-research-council

          • Ken Abbott

            Oh, please. The SPLC has zero credibility–in fact, I’d consider just about any one they oppose as an endorsement!

            Are you aware that people in charge of the SPLC have been squirreling funds away in offshore banking accounts? Or don’t they report such matters on CNN, MSNBC, or the major network shiny-object (I won’t call it “news”) shows?

          • Chip Crawford

            She only knows what she’s fed and she likes her shiny objects, thank you very much. Facts are really scary to these folks. Thank you for yours!!

          • tasha63

            I think facts did indeed get lost somewhere along the way…hmmmm….let’s see… it started a number of years ago with the rise of alt-right networks fed by Bannon, et. al, and then trumpeted and used by Trump himself. Get rid of science. Get rid of environmental protections. Close the borders – SO dangerous!

            Call the mainstream media fake news whenever you don’t like something.

          • Chip Crawford

            You know … there comes a time when one just needs to cut the nonsense flow.
            Always trite; never true

          • tasha63

            Then you are supporting White Supremacy.

          • Ken Abbott

            Although I suspect you’re just failing to recognize my use of hyperbole for effect, I’ll ask you to defend that charge, and define your terms, please.

          • tasha63

            Based on your comments, I have been doing more reading about the SPLC. I think they are still a well-intentioned, good group. But, yes, some of what I am reading is troubling. This article, from a well-respected news source, is indeed a mixed bag and troubling. http(colon)(slash(slash)www(dot)politico(dot)com(slash)magazine(slash)story(slash)2017(slash)06(slash)28(slash)morris-dees-splc-trump-s=southern-poverty-law-center-215312

            So, thank you for giving me a different, and broader, perspective.

          • Ken Abbott

            You’re welcome. Do some additional reading up on Morris Dees. Never be afraid to ask the all-important question, qui bono?

            On the other comment above, I don’t support Breitbart monetarily or through promoting the website on other platforms.

          • tasha63

            My error.

            I try to read both left and right to see differing points of view. I also try to read news from the perspective of other countries. Only then do I get a really full picture of what people are being told. There are also a number of ‘centrist’ online sites that are pretty good and neither left nor right leaning.

          • tasha63

            And you must be supporting Breitbart which has a huge agenda and is not trustworthy. It is labeled by media fact checker as ‘extreme right wing’ with Mixed factual reporting and says this about it: “Breitbart News Network is a politically conservative American news and opinion website founded in 2007 by conservative commentator and entrepreneur Andrew Breitbart (1969–2012). It also has a daily radio program, Breitbart News Daily. The content ranges from extreme right wing bias to conspiracy to racism (“Then you see President Barack Hussein Obama waving the line-cutters forward. He’s on their side. In fact, isn’t he a line-cutter too? How did this fatherless black guy pay for Harvard?”). Breitbart has been accused of publishing fake news for the purpose of a political agenda. (7/18/2016)

      • Dena

        We had two terrible choices for President this election. Both candidates were flawed. Both candidates had the potential to mess up our country and make things worse. I almost didn’t vote this election, because I felt my vote would be a stamp of approval on that candidates behavior. I told my family no way I would vote for Trump.

        Hours before the election I realized a 3rd party had no chance of winning. If I didn’t vote – Clinton would win. I saw her as a much bigger disaster than Trump. She was pushing things I was against. So I went to vote. I held my nose and voted for Trump. It was difficult. I was essentially voting for Trump, so the Clinton disaster didn’t happen. She would have continued Obama’s policies and change our Country to a more liberal view; pushing transactivism, the gay agenda, squashing religious rights, abortion, etc.

        I don’t approve of Trumps childish behavior. However, I like a few things he has done and like how he’s not afraid to speak out against certain things. Clinton would have destroyed our country, Trump might destroy it by saying something utterly stupid.

        • Do I think Hillary Clinton could have done better? I don’t know. We can never know. I certainly think she would have conducted herself in a manner more befitting the office. But that’s all water under the bridge. She’s history. She’s irrelevant. She’s not coming back. We are stuck with what we have. And with every passing day I’m increasingly glad that I am not to blame for it.

          • tasha63

            You are right….sadly.

          • Chip Crawford

            HRC does have a lot of props, some literally under each arm helping her walk up steps, handlers galore, and she still says what she does … And ya’ll all wriggle all over … So sad. With YouTube, though, you all can catch reruns ! And her current folly tour is underway …

          • Dena

            What bothers me more is when people try to defend Trumps bad behavior. When Christians do that, it makes them look naive and that they come from the land of the stupids.

          • tasha63

            Totally agree.

          • Chip Crawford

            poor tasha has all she can do trying to defend her prattle and keep the head from the rattle

          • tasha63

            Please no rudeness. It does not help and is unbecoming.

        • tasha63

          I.e., it is Bernie, not Barry Sanders. I think you are confusing Sanders and Obama.

          Yes, I think Clinton would have done far better than Trump. She is intelligent. She is willing to listen. Yes, she is for some of the things you say you are against. I am for them too. Yes, she wasn’t a ‘perfect’ candidate and her use of a private mail server was poor. Did you know that, in Trump’s WH, several members of his cabinet (including his daughter and son-in-law) have been doing the exact thing they castigated Hillary for? Using private email servers!! But you probably won’t hear about that on Fox, Breitbart, et. al.

          Yes, I wish Sanders had one as I think he is honest as they come. And I do blame the DNC for that, at least in part. They scuttled his chances. But voting for someone as corrupt as Trump because you don’t like the other person. Well, I can empathize with your dilemma. But, enough people in America MADE him the nominee that there is some guilt there.

          • Chip Crawford

            Know about the inner WH circle personal emails. There was no cover up, just correction. And you equate that … of course. Heard about on Fox, the #1 news network for a good reason – quality, professionalism. You have to actually have something to say to be heard there, though. The crashing and bashing is not allowed free run there as elsewhere. Most liberals and Dems are scared to take in too much of it, and many definitely will not come on and face reality. They’d rather do what you and too many others here and elsewhere do, put out word salads full of spoiled ingredients

          • tasha63

            So Jared, Ivanka, Steve Bannon, Steven Miller, Reince Priebus and Gary Cohn ALL used private servers in the WH AFTER knowing what Hillary Clinton went through when she did this? And the WH conducts it’s OWN investigation into it? Wait…wait…

            Hillary was investigated by the FBI!! Why not Trump’s WH?

            The double standard here is SUCH hypocrisy!

            And, I took my information from a FOX News report, just to satisfy you.

          • Dena

            I shook my head when he became the nominee. I don’t know what people saw in him with his brash talk and ugly past? I was in constant arguments with my family. I was anti-Trump until Election Day. I’m still not pro-Trump, but willing to give him a chance.

            Despite Trumps glaring imperfections, I think I made the best choice available. I didn’t like the road Clinton was leading our country on. I’m not sure how Trump will change things, but he hit the “pause” button. Our Country is in moral decline and no politician will be able to fix it. It would take a miracle.

          • Chip Crawford

            How refreshing, heart and head with something in them. Thank you

          • tasha63

            I hear you and appreciate your dilemma. I agree with you about Trump. Not so much about Hillary, but I do get why people felt that way.

    • tasha63

      I think there are a lot of women hating men out there that just couldn’t tolerate the ideal of a female president.

      • Chip Crawford

        Or would really appreciate a better representative of the species … Being a woman is one of the strongest things that has saved her from having no excuse to give for her dismal failure in this and many of her endeavors while in office.

        • tasha63

          I feel the same about Trump. He is a terrible ‘representative of the species’.

      • Ken Abbott

        People persist in making any opposition to a Hillary Clinton presidency all about her sex. If a woman of the caliber of a Margaret Thatcher gained a major-party nomination for president of the United States, I’d very seriously consider voting for her, depending on the circumstances. But principled opposition to Clinton based on her declared public policy positions, her kleptocratic associations, and her remarkably thin record of actual accomplishment in office (for all her touted reputation as “the most qualified candidate in a generation,” she has very little to her credit). Her handling of the Benghazi matter was awful, but for that she shares responsibility with the rest of the Obama administration.

        • Chip Crawford

          Thank you. Margaret Thatcher. Excellence, professionalism, heart, substance …
          If you stood HRC and Mrs. Thatcher side by side, oh my … I think even the bold, self deluded hussy Clinton would have enough grace to be embarrassed. You are right, Mr. Abbott on all counts. This air castle called Hillary Clinton will soon be popped forever and come down as the limp residue it actually is on the heads and shoulders of so many who were willing to go along and settle for so little. More importantly, America’s youth desperately need the stark demonstration that crime does not pay and that no one is above the law in America. Only banana republics allow what was allowed by Mr. Comey and the Obama crooks, led by himself. God save America

        • tasha63

          And Christopher Steven’s own family said to leave her alone, that it was a witch hunt.

          And, just who do you think underfunded Embassies around the world? The Republican Party! Makes it much harder to respond quickly in a crisis, don’t you think?

          • Ken Abbott

            Yes, a lot of people who get in the way of the Clintons get leaned on to cooperate or suffer the consequences. Or are on the receiving end of a tidy sum of cash.

          • Chip Crawford

            All that will come to light; they’ve sown to the wind; they’ve got a whirlwind coming.

          • tasha63

            I don’t think that was the main reason, but it was certainly a contributing reason.

  • Ken Abbott

    As much as I enjoy and appreciate the various contributors at RedState (I was first attracted there by Erick Erickson, who has since left for other pursuits), they have an ax to grind about Trump, don’t like him (they didn’t like Clinton either), and make no bones about it. They also criticize Trump supporters who they believe are sacrificing principle for practical gain. Sometimes they will post a favorable article when he does something they do like (nominate a Gorsuch for the SC, for example).

    • tasha63

      I think Trump supporters ARE sacrificing principle for practical gain. Exactly.

      And I think Republicans in Congress have made a deal with the devil and they can’t control him.

      • Ken Abbott

        On some level, then, you would find sympathy with some of the contributors at RedState, although I expect the differences in viewpoint would outweigh the similarities.

      • Chip Crawford

        If only we could be spared the sandbox spat going on in your head, dear … bless your heart …

        • tasha63

          Ha! I’m sharing it with you all.

  • scrubba

    GREAT article ! I voted Trump simply because Gary was Hillary lite and Hillary was …..

  • Enoch

    And the people said…AMEN!

  • Gregory Peterson

    Judging from you, anyway, you deserve constant criticism for your constant legitimization of your “faith” with your grotesque, thinly whitewashed white theology.

    • Adagio Cantabile

      A-hole

      • Gregory Peterson

        It’s a gift from God just to annoy people like you.

  • Dave Reinwald

    Unless there is someone better, let’s give him a chance.

    • tasha63

      There were a LOT of better choices. Like it or not, America chose one the of two worst men for the job (I won’t say who I think the other one was).

      • Honestly, if Trump vanished and was replaced by Marco Rubio, I’d be frakking THRILLED.

        • Chip Crawford

          It’d be Pence.

    • Chip Crawford

      It’s so unfortunate that the opposition party has nothing going for them, so they just obstruct. They ran a loser candidate. Their party Committee leader was/is a divider who, like the candidate, always has something going on the wrong side of the law. Their current party Committee leader just stands around and cusses. (Why is that all of them resemble wharf rats? Don’t they have any respectable looking people?) Their media cover is starting to get holes in it. I think CNN is down around 11th right now, behind reruns of Scooby Doo and some other comic relief. But the propaganda bosses obviously have a help problem. I wish this latest tasha63 troll on here good luck on her next assignment. She is having no impact here, so I fully expect her to be pulled soon. I hope it doesn’t cause hardship on her meeting her expenses, because it’s likely she may have trouble getting other “work.”

  • Gary

    I don’t believe Trump is a Christian. But he usually seems to be, at least, not hostile to Christians. I did not vote for him because I thought he was a Christian, or even a moral man. I voted for him to keep HRC from being President. I hoped, and still hope, President Trump will make some good decisions. I never expected all of his decisions would be perfect. I simply thought he would be a better President than HRC. And I am still of that opinion.

    • You are the essence of what Eric Hoffer called “The True Believer.”

    • tasha63

      Well, you are at least honest and I think this is likely the situation many found themselves in.

      But, I’d like to ask you why you thought Hillary was so much more ‘evil’. Was it because she was female? Because of her husband’s actions while in office (NOT her’s, I might add)? Because of her stance on abortion?

      I think Trump is a lot like Senator Tim Murphy, privately saying his is anti-abortion, but not hesitating to use it in his own life. Trump would have had an abortion had it not been for his then wife saying ‘no’. It is easy to say it when a) your a man and don’t need to ever make that decision personally and b) you aren’t in the situation.

      • Chip Crawford

        Just stay tuned, folks for HRC goes down, down, down day. Something is masking her crimes and holding off their lawful adjudication. That something is not bigger than God, and he will blast it out of the way soon I hope. It is so hurting to this nation for her to remain above the law … Lawlessness has increased since that fatal failure on the part of Mr. Comey, who unlawfully passed on an obviously prosecutable case. It’s truer than your surface tidbits. It’s so sad.

  • tz1

    He brought Romans 13 (often misapplied) order back. Where Government works with the Church but in different realms or tries to.

    Let me also wretch at this when there was ALMOST NO OBJECTION to either Bush, either time, Senator Ethanol, or Mitch “gay marriage and Planned Parenthood” Romney. Either before the election or DURING THE ENTIRE TERM. Roberts gave us Gay Marriage, oops, Bush apointee.

    I condemn nearly all the Christian commentariat over letting Dubya get away with everything no matter how evil – maybe 9/11 blinded them to the ACTUAL EVIL of unjust war? Torture? more? WHERE WERE YOU WHILE I WAS SHOUTING FROM THE HOUSETOPS? Oh, yea, you were all condemning me – and Joe Sobran, and Pat Buchanan for being unpatriotic.

    Trump is Trump. The heart of the king is in the hands of God as scriputure says. The only thing I see in Trump is a comic authenticity. He never pretends. No pride or hubris. He may be shallow, but you can see the bottom in all but the murkiest shallow waters. He didn’t need the job (he’d be better off if he contributed to the corrupt Clinton Foundation and Hillary beat Jeb!). Melania is a faithful Catholic who started one rally with the Lord’s prayer.

    Trump’s very shallowness shows he is authentic. Intrigue has nowhere to hide in him. That is a grace and a blessing not merely for him.

    There are some critics. I respect Chuck Baldwin, but he has his sunday preaching at the Transgender supporting Hilton property, and puts his sermons on Ghomorravision, aka YouTube, so holds Trump to a higher standard than he does himself.

    That is the key. We didn’t run. We didn’t suffer the slings and arrows. We didn’t manage a campaign. Yet we feel in the height of the grave and deadly sins of hubris and pride to second guess someone who did. Who suffered every insult and DIDN’T back down (you’ll lose your 501c3!). Who used most of his own money. Who spoke CANDIDLY.

    • tasha63

      Excuse me??

      Since when did shallowness equate with authenticity?? Trump has got you too, hook, line and sinker because you so badly want to believe.

      So, basically, what you are saying is there isn’t much depth to this man, yet you voted for him! Or, at least, I assume you did because you certainly sound like a supporter now.

      Thank God Lincoln wasn’t shallow. The Civil War would have gone badly.
      Thank God FDR wasn’t shallow. A World War was the lot of his presidency.
      And JFK? The Cuban Missile crisis could have turned out very differently.

      I wouldn’t be so sure about intrigue either. Trump may be smarter and more devious than you think. He certainly is in bed with Breitbart, a true fake news site if there ever was one. Did you see the expose on Milo and Bannon’s emails, posted on BuzzFeed? That is certainly a White Nationalist organization if there ever was one and now there is proof from their own emails.

      Trump is earning a LOT of money from being President. Whether he takes a salary or not (which he is required to do under the Constitution) – and there is mixed evidence as to whether he donates it or not – he is earning BIGLY from his downtown DC Trump hotel which houses diplomats. Not to mention that he increased the price of becoming a member at Mar-a-Lago to $200,000 a member and this all goes into his own deep pockets. He has never truly severed his ties to his business (putting your kids in charge while you are president does not equal a blind trust).

      Might I also remind you that Trump is NOT a king. He is suppose to serve the people, not the other way ’round.

      • Indeed. Trump gets a pass on any and every unethical, repugnant behavior and statement …. merely by virtue of NOT BEING HILLARY CLINTON.

        • Chip Crawford

          You are very party blind, sir – sadly BTW, HRC is your property. I’m noticing your pushing her toward the other side … understandable

      • Chip Crawford

        Do you REALLY want to go into Mr. O’s grasp at the gold … Oh, and Hilary and Bill’s would keep us here all day.
        Mr. Trump is an earner, an employer and takes $1 for his presidential service, and the fact that his properties are valuable and desirable are just indications of his skill and ability. Only Commies slur capitalists.

        • tasha63

          Yes, BUT he was suppose to put everything into a blind trust which he has still not done to date. AND he promised to show us his tax returns during the election and he has never done so even though all other presidents have since what….the 1940’s?? First, he lied and did not carry through on this promise. And, if he has nothing to hide, then why not just do it? Trump doesn’t need money (or so he says). He did donate his first paycheck, but hasn’t since.

  • Mark 8:36.
    Mene Mene Tekhel Upharsin

  • Louise C

    People are so quick to criticize. He’s got a big mess to fix, and half of the country is against him including some from his own party. He needs support (prayer) and Godly council.

    • Your prayers won’t make a difference except to you. As for “Godly council,” SURE, Trump could invite Franklin Graham and Jerry Falwell Jr. and even Jack Van Impe to the White House, and he could nod and close his eyes and clasp hands in prayer with them, but after he sends them on their way, it’s business as usual.

      He may turn up in church on Christmas or Easter Sunday, but you know as well as everyone else it’s just for show, not piety.

      Trump’s political positions may be in line with your own, but please don’t be under any illusions that he’s some kind of “God-fearing Christian.”

      • tasha63

        Exactly.

      • Chip Crawford

        No, it’s your prayers that wouldn’t make a diff; you have to know to whom you pray and believe
        Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

      • Dena

        Wouldn’t prayer help influence non-Christian politicians?

        • How would that happen if the said politicians don’t know you’re praying for them? And even if they did, would prayer bend them to your will? The answer is obviously no.

          • Hmmm…

            You do err, not knowing the word or how spiritual things work.

          • Maybe you can tell ME how spiritual things work, in any quantifiable way, how spiritual things work.

          • Hmmm…

            Certainly, receive Jesus as your lord and savior. Pray a simple prayer based on related verses of NT scripture. I’d search a bible concordance for related words and study those, or use those on an internet bible search for salvation scriptures. When understanding comes, pray that from your heart. That brings the Holy Spirit into your heart (spirit) and he will take it from there.

          • It sounds like psychological warfare.

          • Hmmm…

            No, not the mind. Salvation deals with the inner man, the spirit of a man, of which one’s soul is part. It actually brings great peace and ends warfare for receivers, which helps the mind and the body actually. The whole man is positively affected.

          • I’m a perfect candidate for Hell, then. Not that I believe in Hell, and I don’t understand how I could be sent to a place that for me does not exist, but according to traditional Christian thinking, that’s where I’m going to go. I never got the hang of the whole “God” thing. It’s as though my antenna doesn’t really pick up that frequency. I do not live in an invisible world of angels and demons and gods and prophecies. I content myself with the hard realities of real life. As such a do my best to be a good and loyal and generous human being, empathetic to a fault, and not for fear or Hell or hope for Heavenly reward. I’m a perfect candidate for Hell, though, because I’m intellectually unable to process what you are telling me.

          • Hmmm…

            You know, that is so honest, and I know what you mean. It is not processed intellectually. John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. We find out more from 2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

            The Word is the bridge. It was given to open the eyes of our understanding in conjunction with the Holy Spirit. Have you ever said anything to God? What would it hurt to say, God, I don’t comprehend you, but if you are there, show me, make yourself real to me. I promise you he is good and will answer that sincerity. Reading salvation scriptures as I mentioned, or just the book of John, with a simple prayer before starting – please show me what this means to me … God will open his world to you.

            He’s not looking for a way to keep anybody out, but ways to bring us all in, initially and to more that he has. But he has some ways that are different from ours. We can’t demand God adhere to our finite understanding, but a simple reach to him will allow him to reveal his. He says to draw near to him and he will draw near to us. He’s just like that. He won’t push in. It’s the devil and his wrong spirits who are pushy and overbearing. There has to be that little bit of reach and openness, invitation, permission, if you will, for him to influence us. It’s just wanting him – to show us, and then you will be wanting him for his person and wonderfulness.

            Salvation is the greatest miracle – it gets us from what you have described to being in a place where the light is turned on and we can see and never be the same, be raised up. He wants you; he’ll hear you. He’s actually waiting for you to make that move toward him.

          • Sorry. I mean, I know you mean well, and I’m sure you’re convinced that you’re right about all this.

          • Hmmm…

            🙂 Yes, I am convinced that God is real to me, that night became day when he came in, that he’s stood with me in the passages of life like no one else can, that’s he’s wonderful company, his presence, and that he wants to be that to everyone. He’s been my ways and means many times, has turned things around that needed that so much … Oh, I’m getting carried away again … Well, best to you.

          • Chip Crawford

            Choosing hell over choosing a higher intellect than your own, who made yours ?? Wow … I think that just might be the answer to how dumb can you get?

          • Hmmm…

            Tried to give practical steps as I understood your request. It all starts with receiving the Lord. God is love. He won’t jumble us up or hurt us. He’s wonderful.

      • Hmmm…

        It’s “counsel.” No, we don’t know that’s it’s show. Piety is kind of a flaky word, which is repugnant to those knowing real spirituality based on respect and relationship. In any case, they know him in Florida at the Presbyterian Church over his years there. His mother was in an Awakening on Lewis Island, an upper Hebrides Island north of Scotland, which influenced her strongly and her son as well. For the 100th time, his act needs work. Part of God’s way is that he works with people, drawing them and is very patient. You should be glad of that on your own behalf, unless you are self-righteous enough to think you are above such need of mercy yourself. Regardless, you are not in the position to judge. Were you more informed on the Word and spiritual truth, you would not presume to stand in God’s place on this.

        You also cannot speak to the ways and results of prayer. You reveal you do not know them personally and their viability. You repeat the pattern of assuming all supporters are practically worshipers of the man. It’s not the case, and not how it works with us. We do not receive the charge that we are wholeheartedly behind all the man’s persona and actions and thus accountable for all of them. It is unfounded and you should know that I would think.

        • Ken Abbott

          Exceedingly well put.

          • Hmmm…

            Bless you. Same for your posts. Let’s have a mutual admiration thing going here; we could sure use it from time to time … 🙂

    • tasha63

      Sounds exactly like the position Obama found himself in.

      Big mess to fix (the 2008 economic meltdown that happened just before the start of his presidency).
      Half the country is against him (the very active Tea Party which got Repubs to oppose everything he tried to do…and he DID try to reach across the aisle for a very long time)

      He needed support too and didn’t get much from 1/2 the country.

      The big difference to me was that he was an honorable, decent, smart man.

      Trump, not so much.

      What goes around, comes around.

      • Chip Crawford

        Mr. O is a walking big mess
        Literally stole billions from the Treasury without consulting Congress and gave them to our most dangerous enemy, the source of the terrorist ???

        Released felons and terrorists on the innocent, pushed every hot button and played every wild card on his way out
        Came to the WH with a regular earned income and left worth about 24 mil …
        He’s a fast talker, but nobody can actually earn that much in 8 years ..
        Oh, there’s more
        It’s the gullible like you who enable this kind of thing

        • tasha63

          This sounds suspiciously racist to me.

          And it also does not sound like the Obama I know.
          Why are you okay with Trump’s money, but not Obama’s? Obama earned it (this is easily found online), where Trump was handed it by Daddy.

          • Chip Crawford

            Trump was handed a stake, which he grew many fold. You know Obama thru a filter, you’re hookwinked, how did he earn that much? nothing visible? But it’s all the same to you. But time will tell, to again quote one of your sound bytes.
            Proverbs 14:7 Go from the presence of a foolish man, when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge.
            Enough of the swamp water and entries from Clara’s Cliches. I’m blocking you tasha63 for the above stated wise counsel from one who has it to give. I recommend it to you.

          • Hmmm…

            Good call. I notice her posts being minimized here and there. Apparently she is being reported by some. The moderators do a good job. They allow these trolls a chance, but when they just obstruct, they finally cut them off. I don’t come on here so often, or I would be irritated by this pesky fly effect – just buzzing people trying to pester and hinder.

          • tasha63

            I believe I am being silenced simply because you don’t like a differing opinion. That seems rather unAmerican and certainly against my First Amendment rights of free speech. Without people being able to express differences of opinions, everyone is just talking to like-minded people. There is no growth in that.

          • Concerned Christian

            “Without people being able to express differences of opinions, everyone is just talking to like-minded people. There is no growth in that.”

            Great Point! 🙂

          • tasha63

            Thank you for your support. Somehow one or two people on here have been able to block some of my posts. If I am rude call me out on it because that is not good.

            If it is simply because of a different viewpoint, then calling me a troll or expunging me from the site seems simply an easy way to silence me – which, as I tried to point out, seems not only unAmerican but un-First Amendment. Thanks again for your support, CC!

          • Concerned Christian

            Yes, this happened to someone else that use to respond a lot.

            what’s funny is that if Christians can’t express differing points of view, without getting angry, the world truly has no chance.

          • tasha63

            I wanted to add that I just counted up the number of my posts that have been ‘blocked’ here on this site – 30 total. I can see them all on my own profile page.

            For a time, most of them showed up and now they are marked pending. I suspect someone on this comment column reported me because they didn’t like my point of view. A couple of comments between Chip and Hmmmm are suggestive of that. My experience with’pending’ comments is that they never again see the light of day and are ‘pending’ forever. Most of these comments (with a couple of exceptions where I accidentally inserted a web site or the like) were here, for some time, and then vanished. That is not right. That is what authoritarians do. They should state their own point of view, then let it stand on it’s own merits. They shouldn’t try to just silence others.

            So, I’d like to know in all seriousness, what is the difference between a so-called ‘troll’ and someone who just is expressing a difference of opinion??

    • Hmmm…

      Little thing — it’s “counsel” in this context 🙂
      I’m focused on the Lord who is working, praying for those he has to work through
      God is the only one perfect, and he has always had a “help” problem
      the Council (this time :)) is actually uncool for him to hang out with at times and going to their little deals no one else has is not something he needed to do for their vote, like really??

      He likes the love there, everybody does, and at least listens
      Thank you Louise C: I agree with you, an adult in the room.
      God bless everyone else, but really, it is like a lot of clamoring children …

      • tasha63

        Sounds exactly like the position Obama found himself in.

        Big mess to fix (the 2008 economic meltdown that happened just before the start of his presidency).
        Half the country is against him (the very active Tea Party which got Repubs to oppose everything he tried to do…and he DID try to reach across the aisle for a very long time)

        He needed support too and didn’t get much from 1/2 the country.

        The big difference to me was that he was an honorable, decent, smart man.

        Trump, not so much.

        What goes around, comes around.

  • Caitie

    Why not add a link to the negative article? This article is filled with so much of Ross’s words with the usual weak rebuttal. Oh ye of little faith! Leave out all the rumor, innuendo, unsubstantiated accusations, fake news stories and side with facts. Does President Trump defend himself on Twitter? At times yes but seriously he’d be on it 24/7 if he used it to defend every attack he’s come under. Let’s see when was the last time a President was accused almost hourly of being a traitor (russian collusion) Being a racist, sex predator, hate instigator, anti woman, and worse being called Hitler-like over and over. Could you comprehend what it must be like to be compared to Hitler? Yet he continues to deal with these people and stay silent taking the high ground on the most part even smiling and shaking their hand. Willing to work with them. I take issue with Christians that sit in judgement of the faith of President Trump. What exactly do you base your doubt on? We are all sinners we ALL SIN. Though none of has had a microscope on our lives from decades ago till this very hour. A slew of journalists whose only job only focus is hope upon hope to get that hint of a story to take him down. To gain evidence to impeach him. When all else fails to relentlessly attack his spouse and family including his 10 year old son. I wonder with every set of eyes that read this article could any of us live up to that scrutiny be judged on our faith and still stay true with all the enemy is throwing at you stay faithful to everything he has done for Christians with every stroke of his pen. I can’t even read these articles by our own without thinking of those last 8 years. HRCs possible win and what it would’ve meant on so many fronts. Then those many WJC years of abuse of power, sexual harassment and misconduct. I didn’t vote for President Trump solely because of HRC. I prayed God would continue to mold this man into the leader he raised him to be. You can’t deny God had a hand in his becoming our President so I will continue to pray for his heart and the safety of him, his family, his cabinet and our scotus. Im NOT a disciple of President Trump and find those words deeply offensive moreso then the Presidents tweets. I am a disciple of the one true God our Lord and Savior. We are not sheep we are Shepherds leading the blind to see and we have a huge mission field.

    • Chip Crawford

      Thank you. You are a wise person.

    • tasha63

      Trump has personally provided much evidence of being a racist, a sexual predator (caught on audio no less) and a hate instigator. He doesn’t seem particularly faithful to me and the only way we out here in the hinterlands have to observe his faith is to observe his actions. We may all ‘sin’, but the consequences of the actions of the president of the USA are much larger than for most of us. I don’t blame God for his becoming president. I think that was purely through human choice and action.

      • Caitie

        I’ve read a few of your comments and one comment you suggested that Hillary Clinton was the lesser of two evils by far. I’m sorry but the abortion platform she ran on supporting Planned Parenthood eliminated her completely from consideration for any Christian who keeps to the word of God.
        I know people who personally know President Trump for decades. A friend who’s children play with his son. They have never seen or heard anything but respect for people of all color, gender and financial status. What is all this evidence you bring based on? If he were so bad so racist so hateful towards woman the anti Trump news sites that had dedicated journalists working around the clock to stop his campaign would’ve found more then a 10 year old crass remark spoken in private to another man. The whole evidence of his being a racist was that he was a birther and didn’t like Obama’s policies?
        Everyone’s opinions against him is based on shallow evidence and because of that, considering the alternate it was a clear choice imo. He surrounds himself with highly respected men of faith, he appointed a wonderful justice, he picked a great VP, he’s doing so much we hoped he would as Christians. Is he flawed yes and should we pray every day for his heart, his safety, for discernment and that God continues to surround him with men of faith yes yes yes. If someone sits for 5 minutes and thinks about the storm that came against him you have to as a believer see Gods hand in his Presidency.

  • Concerned Christian

    Look Trump is Awesome!

    He has figured out how to gain power while being the absolute worst human being, i hope, that has ever held the presidency. He is a walking example of Proverbs 6:16-19:

    16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

    –A proud look (Check)
    –a lying tongue (Check, Check, Check)
    –and hands that shed innocent blood, (Hey Trump passed one, at least until further notice)
    –An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations (check)
    –feet that be swift in running to mischief, (Check)
    –A false witness that speaketh lies (check)
    — and he that soweth discord among brethren.(check, check, check, check, check)

    Add in a complete lack of empathy, no clue on what actual policy looks like, and personally enriching himself while in office and you have a guy that’s really amazing.

    How is he amazing? With all of those flaws, he understands the thing that matters most. People will forget about your flaws if you remind them of:

    –Blacks – Not respecting the flag which of course means blacks don’t love the country
    –Muslims – Wanting to ban them from entering the country because of course they want to bomb the country
    –Hispanics – wanting to build a wall to prevent them from coming into the country because they are an economic threat
    –LGBT community – the audacity they have for wanting the legal right to marry because as Dr. James Dobson put it, they are a threat to western civilization.
    The Left – Anti-God and anti-American. you know, a catch all!
    Women – wanting the right to control their own bodies so that they can become more powerful than men.

    Let’s not stop there. If you’re afraid of external threats, let’s threaten war:

    A physical war:
    North Korea
    Iran

    A Cold War:
    North Korea
    Iran
    Russia
    China

    A trade war
    Canada
    Mexico
    Germany
    Japan
    China
    South Korea

    Trump constantly reminds Christians that we have no ministers, no representatives and no leaders that can get the job done as well as a man like him. He gets them to twist themselves in knots trying to defend the indefensible.

    Now how awesome is that!

    • Chip Crawford

      Stop sniffin’ that glue, man

      • Concerned Christian

        which part of what i said wasn’t true?

        • Chip Crawford

          Php 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

          Aren’t we supposed to be concerned with our own compliance rather than that of others? God knows.

          • Concerned Christian

            Really?

            “Aren’t we supposed to be concerned with our own compliance rather than that of others? God knows.”

            Is this what you mean by Php 4:8?
            ===========================================
            Mr. O is a walking big mess
            Literally stole billions from the Treasury without consulting Congress and gave them to our most dangerous enemy, the source of the terrorist ???

            Released felons and terrorists on the innocent, pushed every hot button and played every wild card on his way out
            Came to the WH with a regular earned income and left worth about 24 mil …
            He’s a fast talker, but nobody can actually earn that much in 8 years ..
            Oh, there’s more
            It’s the gullible like you who enable this kind of thing
            ===============================================

            But you’re deflecting. What exactly did I say about Trump that wasn’t true?

          • Chip Crawford

            The scripture gives us our guidelines beyond just what is true. Because you are emphasizing something you consider true, I thought of that verse which lists a number of other things. You came up with this out of the blue, making you seem rather obsessed with it. Not to be overly defensive, but my O list you copied here was part of an ongoing conversation. I’m not thinking on all of that, but giving it in rebuttal to some things presented to me that I felt needed that check and balance.

          • Concerned Christian

            Fair enough on your O comments.

            So humor me. What part did i violate:

            –whatsoever things are true? I think I’m good here.
            –whatsoever things are honest? I think I’m good here.
            –whatsoever things are just? I think I’m good here.
            –whatsoever things are pure? I think I’m good here.
            –whatsoever things are lovely? I think I’m good here.
            –whatsoever things are of good report? I think I’m good here.
            –if there be any virtue? I think I’m good here.
            –if there be any praise? I think I’m good here.
            –think on these things? these are general observations

            I remember listening to Conservative Christians hammer Clinton. They praised Bush as a Christian, a man put into leadership by God. Conservative Christians never seem to remember the free fall the economy was in when Obama took office.

            Now it seems like they have even worse amnesia as it relates to Trump. Trump has gotten conservative Christians to compromise on every character argument that they have made against democrats.

            I doubt very few people want to be around or have their kids be anything like Trump. Can’t make that same argument about any of the other living presidents!

          • Chip Crawford

            Good grief, Charlie Brown … Again, it strikes me so strongly that you are so obsessed with all of this. That kind of chills objectivity. Your assessments of your compliance are rather self-serving, don’t you think? All that stuff you’re saying may not be true, it’s definitely not lovely, praise worthy for starters. Huh? I can’t relate to the rest in one big clump right now … lol

          • Concerned Christian

            So here are some of your quotes:

            ============================================================================
            Mr. Trump is an earner, an employer and takes $1 for his presidential service, and the fact that his properties are valuable and desirable are just indications of his skill and ability. Only Commies slur capitalists.

            Mr. O is a walking big mess
            Literally stole billions from the Treasury without consulting Congress and gave them to our most dangerous enemy, the source of the terrorist ???

            Just stay tuned, folks for HRC goes down, down, down day. Something is masking her crimes and holding off their lawful adjudication.

            Being a woman is one of the strongest things that has saved her from having no excuse to give for her dismal failure in this and many of her endeavors while in office.

            ============================================================================

            Do you see any hypocrisy in your accusations towards me?

          • Chip Crawford

            No. Not accusing you. Aren’t you deflecting? You are responsible for your accusations toward Mr. Trump, not what you perceive to be mine. Are you saying: they do it too … ? Again, you are stepping into my conversations with others.

            Listen, there is so much smear out there on Trump that it is past ridiculous. And there is so much real time negative on Obama and what we suffered from his sins and omissions, that equal time seems at least fair. But this thing that’s going on our there calls one a racist immediately if saying anything about Obama. Foul ball. The man is required to stand on his actions and record, and they are up for review. The double standard is gagging and we don’t have to swallow whatever anyone wants to force down. It’s really old.

            And that does not mean I rubber stamp any and all of Mr. Trump’s persona or m.o. I do not. But your and others’ “grand slams” are so irresponsible and sweeping, and then those who transfer that to anyone who protests, is wrongdoing. Your broad brush painting doesn’t work, and you can rightly expect some protest. And we’re not subject to your or others’ at-will name calling and slanderous accusations. You might consider some of this in light of your claim to be a God follower with a call on his life, a parent and family member, priorities for focus …

            I am not angry, but you got me fired up. Disagreeing with your words does not mean that I do not regard you as a brother and fellowman. Time has worth and I gave you some of mine in reflection of yours. Like God, I’m not against you, but actually for you in this. I hope you will see it in this light.

          • Concerned Christian

            I’m not mad at you either. 🙂

            It truly takes a lot to get me mad. It drives my wife crazy! 🙂

            I find it refreshing when others share their opinions. That’s why I’m really curios what your perspective is on what I said. In a vacuum, there’s no left or right.

            What did i specifically say about Trump or those that support him that you find offense with?

          • Chip Crawford

            Hey, good to hear from you! Well, your first post was such a blast of condemnation and judgment across the board. We’ve had so much of that from the trolls, it’s really hard to get that from a strong regular. Again, no one thinks DT is amazing and perfect. but he’s not the devil either. We’ve got to find our place of peace in all of this, it seems. But thank you for this post and your good heart! God bless !!

          • Concerned Christian

            Same to you! 🙂

      • tasha63

        Can you imagine one Founding Father saying to another “Stop sniffin’ that glue, man?”

        I think they discussed and probably argue back and forth and also listened. It was how this wonderful country came to be.

    • Linda

      Not so sure about giving him a pass on the shedding of blood thing….people are dying on his watch in all kinds of ways and places – Niger, Puerto Rico, Charlottesville, the country at large due to lack of health care…

      • Chip Crawford

        Slander does not equate with truth

    • Hmmm…

      You know, CC, I’ve “talked” with you before on various things, and you surprise me with all of this. I know that you have children you want to influence and some ministry outreaches you’re interested in. This seems a distraction. Are you really supposed to be so embroiled in all of this, and are you really working with the Holy Spirit in the things you are concluding here? I’ll be so bold as to say that from what I’ve heard from you, your heart, your gifts and calling are best employed elsewhere. You’re more than this.

      • Concerned Christian

        I don’t think it’s a distraction, I think it’s a way of providing a different perspective. We all can live in echo chambers and Stream seems to be no different. I’ve talked with more moderate Christians who feel drowned out by conservatives. You’re kind of in a catch 22.

        You don’t want to be argumentative with your christian brethren but you also feel that your views are not being represented. This is causing a skewed perception within the Christian community.

        As Christians do we really have to stooped to defending Trump? I know many will say never Hillary so I’ll ask do we have to stoop to Trump or Hillary?

        • tasha63

          I am glad to hear your perspective. Thanks for sharing it.

          • Concerned Christian

            you keep sharing yours as well. We seem to be in the minority on this site! 🙂

          • Chip Crawford

            You disappoint. You’ve made it obvious your Christianity is a very weak link in your life view these days, compromised for expedient political trends. I’m sorry about that for you and that you’ve been duped. I hope that turns around.

          • tasha63

            No, he is just stating his point of view which is different than your’s. That is all.

          • Concerned Christian

            that’s what i thought i was doing? 🙂

          • Concerned Christian

            wow, where did that come from?

        • Hmmm…

          Nope, no stooping to defend. But not lowering to trashing either. It’s not about being conservative, but being Christian. Most are trying hard to obey the Lord’s word to pray for our leaders so he can work through them. The Lord wants us on higher ground than the world, judging and bashing him. He asks for it often, but we’re not to scratch around with the chickens, but to mount up with wings as eagles and fly above the fray. You make it hard when you come along with all that stuff. You know?

          • tasha63

            But, Hmmmm, it is human beings that elect each president. It’s not like one just popped into the job unannounced. Fine, I don’t have a problem with your praying for Trump at all (and he needs it!). But, he does need to be called out. Here are a few quotes from our Founding Fathers about government, globalism, the right to speak out, etc.

            “The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.”
            — Thomas Paine

            “Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the people, who have a right, from the frame of their nature, to knowledge, as their great Creator, who does nothing in vain, has given them understandings, and a desire to know; but besides this, they have a right, an indisputable, unalienable, indefeasible, divine right to that most dreaded and envied kind of knowledge, I mean, of the characters and conduct of their rulers. Rulers are no more than attorneys, agents, and trustees, of the people; and if the cause, the interest, and trust, is insidiously betrayed, or wantonly trifled away, the people have a right to revoke the authority that they themselves have deputed, and to constitute other and better agents, attorneys and trustees.” John Adams

            “The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries.
            [Letter objecting to the use of government land for churches, 1803]”
            ― James Madison

            “I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.”
            ― James Madison

            “It may not be easy, in every possible case, to trace the line of separation between the rights of religion and the Civil authority with such distinctness as to avoid collisions and doubts on unessential points. The tendency to usurpation on one side or the other, or to a corrupting coalition or alliance between them, will be best guarded agst. by an entire abstinence of the Govt. from interference in any way whatsoever, beyond the necessity of preserving public order, and protecting each sect agst. trespasses on its legal rights by others.
            [Letter to the Reverend Jasper Adams, January 1, 1832]”
            ― James Madison, Letters and Other Writings of James Madison Volume 3

          • tasha63

            James Madison, as you might recall, is the same person that wrote about the …well-regulated militia. We can (and do) debate exactly what he meant by that, but unfortunately he is not here to say.

            A few more quotes that I think pertain to religion and speaking up to our government.

            “Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own governors, must arm themselves with the power knowledge gives. A popular government without popular information or the means of acquiring it, is but a prologue to a farce or a tragedy or perhaps both”
            ― James Madison

            “Equal laws protecting equal rights…the best guarantee of loyalty and love of country.”
            ― James Madison

            “Every new & successful example therefore of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance. And I have no doubt that every new example, will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt. will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.

            [Letter to Edward Livingston, 10 July 1822 – Writings 9:100–103]”
            ― James Madison, James Madison: Writings

          • Concerned Christian

            Aren’t you making an assumption that I’m not praying for Trump and that I’m not doing what I feel God is leading me to do?

            Wouldn’t it be easy for Christians, who disagree with Trump, to simply be quiet and keep their opinions to themselves? If you feel I’ve said something that’s inaccurate, I would like to know what it is?

            I strongly believe that Trump could be considered a great president if conservative christian held him to the same standard that they hold Obama.

            Waiting on the Lord is not a passive action. Just ask anyone that’s wasted so much of their lives waiting for a cheating spouse or child to change because they used “just pray” as an excuse to not force the change!

      • tasha63

        We all have a duty and a right to speak our hearts on moral issues.

    • tasha63

      That was concise and well put.

  • bbb

    Maybe people need to see the secularists, the atheists, the Muslims and all who PERSECUTE Christianity a little differently.
    This is just another attack against Jesus Christ our Lord.
    Blaming Trump is the most popular sport above FB. Basketball, Baseball, Soccer, Hockey, etc.
    Name anything you disrespect and do not like, then blame Trump.
    But let me tell you about something I saw on Hannity last night that opened my eyes.
    Kirk Cameron has a show coming out Oct 24 that is called Revive US 2 and it is truly a great evangelical awakening spreading across America.
    What has Trump, what has Pence, done for Christianity in America?
    Never-Trumpers all have answers that range from nothing to he cheapened “Merry Christmas.”
    But under Obama the lawsuits against Christians abounded because they stood firm in God and Jesus and did not budge when they lost their businesses. Judge Roy Moore lost his judgeship – kicked out by DNC operatives – over the 10 Commandments. Under Obama Catholic charities were denied the right to NOT pay for employees abortions. The list is too long for this email. Why not look them up?
    Who removed the Johnson Act that muzzled what pastors could say in the pulpit? Trump.
    Who re-instated the first amendment to end lawsuits against Christian businesses who stood with God? Trump.
    Who made churches and religious properties equally allowed to get FEMA funds in natural disasters? Trump
    Who said “Merry Christmas” is back because secularist activists shamed America and made it illegal? Trump
    Again, what Trump has actually done for Christianity is too long a list.
    So, rather than look so hard at Trump, let’s look real hard at Jesus.
    A president has less than a decade in office. Jesus Christ and God are eternal, infinite and everlasting.

    • Chip Crawford

      Spot on

    • Chip Crawford

      Spot on; thank you

    • tasha63

      But might you not be equating a president who isn’t a member of any particular church and claims no particular faith (Trump) and partisan politics with Christianity, in particular, evangelicals who seem to be the largest Christian group actively supporting Trump? Isn’t there a Bible verse…’render onto Caesar that which is Caesar’s?, etc. There is only one direct statement in the original Constitution that seems to point to a desire for some degree of religious freedom. That appearance is in Article 6, at the end of the third clause:

      [N]o religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

      We are a country of many faiths and peoples. All need protection for their religious beliefs. Some (and it is a large and growing segment) have no particular faith, yet can still be good and moral people.

      I think we need to respect all religions and all peoples’. That can make it into a real juggling act – how do you protect the rights of some without at the same time tramping on the rights of others? We have to come to compromises because otherwise we will stay divided. And, if our Commander in Chief is not speaking out against racism (as in Charlottesville) or is making statements or acting demeaning women, then he needs to be called out on it.

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