‘Devout’ Catholic Tim Kaine Butchers the Bible to Embrace Gay Radicalism

Democratic vice presidential nominee Sen. Tim Kaine

By Michael Brown Published on September 12, 2016

Speaking at the Human Rights Campaign’s annual Washington, DC dinner, Democratic vice-presidential nominee Tim Kaine butchered the Bible and made one of the most twisted arguments for same-sex “marriage” that you’ll ever hear. Yet the very article laying out his arguments described him as a “devout” Roman Catholic. How can this be?

Putting aside the obvious question of how Kaine could serve on a presidential ticket with the radically pro-abortion candidate Hillary Clinton — indeed, he has already been challenged for “saying he is both a ‘traditional Catholic’ and a strong supporter of abortion” — Kaine raised further eyebrows when suggesting that the Catholic Church could one day change its position on same-sex “marriage,” just as he has done.

In support of his viewpoint, he cited Pope Francis’s oft-quoted comment about gay Catholics (“Who am I to judge?”), failing to realize that the Pope was not sanctioning homosexual acts and relationships but rather saying, “If someone is same-sex attracted and wants to be part of the Church, who am I to judge?”

This is very different from saying, “If two men are in love and want to have a romantic and sexual relationship, who am I to judge?”

But I am not a Catholic, nor can I predict where the Roman Catholic Church will be in 5 or 50 years. What I can say with certainty is that Sen. Kaine’s use of Genesis 1 to buttress his support of LGBT activism amounts to scriptural malpractrice.

He said, “I think it’s going to change because my church also teaches me about a creator who, in the first chapter of Genesis, surveyed the entire world, including mankind, and said, ‘It is very good.’”

And, he added, “Who am I to challenge God for the beautiful diversity of the human family? I think we’re supposed to celebrate it, not challenge it.”

Seriously? Kaine is going to Genesis 1 to argue for same-sex “marriage,” along with the larger LGBT agenda?

Genesis 1 and the Natural Family

Allow me to give a helpful hint to the senator: Sir, although you will find no support for your position anywhere in the Bible, the worst place you can go to argue your case is Genesis.

It is in Genesis 1 that we see the importance of gender distinctions, as God creates humankind as male and female — not as male, female, and an infinite number of variations, including agender, bigender, and third gender, along with multi-gender options like ambigender, bigender, blurgender, collgender, conflictgender, cosmicgender, crystagender, deliciagender, duragender, demiflux, domgender, fissgender, gemelgender, gendercluster, genderfluid, gendersea, genderfuzz, genderfractal, genderspiral, genderswirl, gendervex, gyaragender, libragender, ogligender, pangender, polygender and trigender.

Is this what Kaine was referring when he spoke of “the beautiful diversity of the human family” that we should celebrate? Genesis 1 states the exact opposite.

It is also in Genesis 1 that God blesses His human creation with the words, “be fruitful and multiply,” and it is only heterosexuals, by design, who can do this. That’s why, to this moment, no homosexual couple has ever been blessed by God with the ability to procreate by themselves.

The Bible and the Natural Family

This sets the pattern for the rest of the Bible, where the only marital relationships blessed by God, without exception, are heterosexual, with the male and female being uniquely designed for one another biologically, emotionally, and spiritually.

Accordingly, it is based on Genesis 1 that Paul explains in Romans 1 that homosexual acts are contrary to nature — meaning, contrary to God’s intended, natural plan for men and women.

And it is based on Genesis 1 that Jesus explains in Matthew 19 that marriage, as intended by God from the beginning, is the lifelong union of a man and a woman.

Does Sen. Kaine now have insight into Genesis 1 that not only escaped his own Catholic Church, but Jesus and Paul as well?

The Fall of Man

As for Kaine’s argument that when the Creator “surveyed the entire world, including mankind [He] said, ‘It is very good’,” — meaning that homosexuality and bisexuality and more are all good — he seems to have forgotten that “very good” was God’s description of His creation before the fall, when sin entered the world.

After the fall, His assessment changed dramatically to this: “The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually” (Genesis 6:5).

So much for the “very good” assessment applying to human nature today!


As expressed by Jesus, “what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander” (Matthew 15:18-19).

And note carefully that the Greek word for sexual immorality, porneia, is used in the plural here, referring to all sexual acts outside of marriage, which Jesus defined as the union of one man and one woman (see Matthew 19:4-6).

So, the very thing that Sen. Kaine wants to celebrate, the very “diversity” that he claims God established in creation, is the precise opposite of what God intended for His creation, as stated clearly in Genesis 1 and reaffirmed throughout the rest of the Bible, from Moses to Jesus to Paul.

Mrs. Clinton’s running mate would do well to submit his thinking to the Scriptures rather than twisting the Scriptures to fit his thinking. It is the senator who must change, not the Word of God.

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  • honeybadger

    Pray for us o holy mother of god…. Divorse, faux marriage, fatherless children? How vpcan we come back from this? Our society is non existent. With God, all things are possible….

    • m-nj

      since no one else has said it… please direct your prayers to the Father in the name of the Son… Mary holds no sway in heaven, and your prayers are falling into empty space.

      • honeybadger

        Tell me friend, did Jesus follow perfectly the 10 commandments?

        • Dean Bruckner

          Yes, and he said, looking around to those listening to his teaching, “These are my mother and sister and brothers.”

          You shall have no other gods, male or female, before YHWH. He kept that commandment too.

          • honeybadger

            Does he follow the 4th commandment? Honor thy father and mothers?

          • m-nj

            what does this have to do with praying to Mary? NOTHING! honoring your father or mother has no implication, direct or implied, on whether anyone should pray to Mary.

          • honeybadger

            Really? DId Jesus follow the commandment to honor his mother or not?

          • m-nj

            Hebrews 4:15 – “For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.” Jesus was sinless, so by extension He obeyed ALL the 10 Commandments and ALL the Law.

            If your point is then going to be “Well, if he honors His mother, Mary, then He will listen to her when she prays for us.” That is an incorrect application of the command to honor your father and mother, as per other responses above… There is NO BIBLICAL EXAMPLE of ANY living human being on earth asking any dead human being to pray for them.

            You can choose to continue to perform and advocate others to perform an UNBIBLICAL practice, but be warned … Matthew 18:6,7 – “If anyone causes one of those who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come!”

          • Elephantinanocean

            Psalm 103 we pray, “Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!” (Ps. 103:20–21). And in the opening verses of Psalms 148 we pray, “Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!”

            “[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God” (Rev. 8:3–4)

            “See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven” (Matt. 18:10)

          • m-nj

            umm… none of those verses have anything to do with a LIVE HUMAN BEING on earth asking a DEAD HUMAN BEING in heaven to pray for them.

            And the last verse, Matt 18:10, is NOT saying that dead people become angels… it means that the angels that have charge predominantly over children stand close to the Lord so they can be dispatched quickly on errands to help or rescue children… think “guardian angels”. angels are a totally separate class of created spiritual beings, regardless of how Hallmark and pop culture have skewed the idea that dead people become angels.

          • Elephantinanocean

            I am sorry but you have heard a wrong gospel. The gospel says that we do not die that we are born again through baptism a new creation in Jesus Christ and have life eternal through him , so you see no one is asking the dead to pray for us for they are not dead , they are very much alive, Apart of the same body of Christ that we are all baptized into. God Bless

          • m-nj

            that’s a silly deflection. of course born-again people are still “alive” spiritually in heaven. duh! but you are trying to stitch together verses to say there is Biblical evidence that physically dead people (regardless of the fact that they are spiritually still alive) in heaven can be asked to pray for us, or that they become angels. there is not a single Biblical example of this, in contrast to the clear model of prayer (to the Father, in the name of the Son), and the command for physically living christians to pray for each other.

          • Sailosi Tarai

            As i previously have stated. Praying to the dead is necromancing. It is written

            11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Rev 20: 11 – 15

            Therefore, No human being that lived and was not resurrected, is in heaven, Including Mary. They are asleep, awaiting the 2nd coming of Christ.

          • Elephantinanocean

            Are you Adventist or Jehovah Witness?, Classical Orthodox Christian teaching for 2000 years is that once your body gives out you are judged immediatly and go to heaven or hell. They are not asleep, before Christ yes , but after Christ there is no sleep , its heaven or hell. This is Christianity 101. Quick question and i mean no disrespect, do you believe Jesus is God, i know Adventist and Jehovah Witness do not, so we would could not even debate this because in that case we have a bigger stumbling block.

            42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[a]”

            43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

          • Sailosi Tarai

            tell me. Does Jesus specifically say, that when we die we go straight to heaven? Why then do we have a 2nd coming. This teaching is heresy! there is nothing in the bible where Jesus said, when you die, you go straight to heaven.

            Answer me this question, which Wiley asked: If the souls be in heaven, in as great as the glory as the angels, after your doctrine, show me what cause be of the resurrection. And, in putting them in heaven, hell, purgatory, destroy the arguments wherewith Christ and Paul prove the resurrection. And again, if the souls be in heaven, tell me why they be not as good as the angels be? And then what cause is there of the resurrection.

            Regarding your question: If Christ did not die on the cross for ALL our sins, no one would enter the kingdom of heaven, especially not thieves and sinners. But before they died, they put their faith in Christ. Thus, he said they would be with him in paradise, because they believed in him, for Christ, and Christ alone saves.

            Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. MATT 24: 23, 24

            There is no secret rapture. There is no scriptural evidence of going to heaven, purgatory or hell before the 2nd coming, before judgement day.

            Christ is the son of God, given Authority by his father, savior of Mankind, redeemer of sins. Christ is my savior.

          • Elephantinanocean

            I appreciate the time and thought you took to respond. God Bless You. I am of the firm belief Jesus is God. That is the classical orthodox teaching. Because you do not share that belief, you believe in a different Gospel. Peace be with you!

          • Sailosi Tarai

            god bless you too brother.

          • honeybadger

            By what authority do you warn me? Your own? I’m not scared of you. You can make up whatever you want out of the Bible.

            Jesus said to his disciples what you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven.

            That is the teaching authority of the Church (not churches) that he founded. The authority to put the bible together and the authority to forgive and retain sins.

            You are giving yourself that authority. You claim that its the bible that you get authority from , but the bible is not the fullness of truth, the fullness of truth is in the CHurch that Jesus founded on the rock of Peter. The bible is a document of the Catholic church and YOU are going to interpret it for me?

            ON WHOS AUTHORITY?

            You are your own little church, aren’t you?

          • Sailosi Tarai

            The bible is the word of God. For God is the same, yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

            For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12).

            The word of God, that is the bible, is a living word of God.

            Arm yourself with the word of God.
            Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.(ephesians 6:17)

            God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? (Numbers 23:19)

            So if the Bible is the living word of God, and god is not a man that he should lie, then the bible is the truth, the living truth, that is the word of God. And it is also written:

            For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

            20He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

            21The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. {THE END.} (Rev 22; 18 – 21)

            So as you can see, The pope/bishop/priest/preacher/deacon/pastor is not the authority on this book. Gods laws, words cannot be changed as they see fit.

            God bless you sister. may lord bless you in all your endeavours, may he fill you with the holy spirit and may he strengthen your walk in Christ. Amen.

          • honeybadger

            So as you can see, The pope/bishop/priest/preacher/deacon/pastor is not the authority on this book.

            The Bible was written over 4000 years and the Catholic Church authorized it as what we now call the bible.

            Where was the bible the day after Jesus died? The year after he died. Tell me where was the bible 10 years after Jesus died? Nowhere.

            And how many CHristians could read in 100 AD? 1000 AD? Even if a medieval peasant could have read, they couldn never have afforded one!

            So who read the bible to them?

            At mass every day Catholics read from the bible, just as we have done for 2000 years.

            Where in the Bible does it say the bible is the only source of truth?

          • Sailosi Tarai

            The bible was not written by the catholic church, it is a compilation of books written by prophets throughout the ages. The Torah, the old testament, and then translated from Aramaic to Greek and then Latin and finally, English. Therefore, the Roman Catholic Church does not, I repeat, Does Not have authority over the word of God. And if you look throughout history, you will find that people of the Catholic Church were not allowed to read the Bible or even own one.

            Also regarding Mary, the mother of Jesus. Even Jesus says this;

            46While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. 47Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 48But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. MATT 12; 46 – 50

            I urge you, read the Bible and do as Jesus Commands us, Not as the Church commands you. For Jesus says;

            many that call me Lord will not enter the Kingdom of heaven.

            Why do you call me Lord, and do not do what i say?

            If you love me, keep my commandments

            No one who loves their father and mother more than me is worthy of me.

            No one comes to the father except through me

            Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Kjv Matt 7; 13, 14

            Whoever shall come after me. Let him deny himself, Pick up his cross daily, and follow me.

            So, if the writings in the bible are what Jesus has said, Then how can you deny the authority of his word in the Bible? God’s word is the Authority, the only truth in this world. The Churchse is made by Men, run by men, taught by men. I have chosen to follow Jesus Instruction and Do as He, Jesus Christ my Lord commands me.

            God Bless you Sister. I Pray that you continue to seek out the truth that is Christ Jesus. Amen

          • Dean Bruckner

            That’s the fifth commandment, but you don’t know that because the Catholics gutted the second commandment and subordinated it to a meaningless clause in the first commandment.

          • honeybadger

            Under whose authority did you switch the order of the commandments?

          • honeybadger

            When did catholics ‘gut” the second commandment?

          • Dean Bruckner

            When you learned the first commandment via the Catholic catechism, did it include the part about not making any graven (handmade) image, or bowing down to it or worshiping it? I’m guessing not, but you will know better what your own experience has been.

            Search on Google for “Jesus is Lord ten commandments authorized version” and choose the second link.

            Or put the following link back into normal format:

            I don’t necessarily agree with everything this site says, but I do agree with what it says about the Catholic Church changing of the Ten Commandments. The fact is, there are copies of portions of the book of Exodus (which first states the 10 Commandments) that date to 100 B.C., well before the church began. Attempts to rearrange the 10 commandments which the Jews preserved for 1400 years is a serious transgression.

          • honeybadger

            Whoa whoa. Didn’t God command Moses to make statues?

            And you shall make two cherubim of gold… The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another…. And you shall put the mercy seat on the top of the ark… There I will meet with you (Ex. 25:18-22).

            But here again, until Luther, for 15 centuries (thats 1500 years!) all Christians used icons. Were all Christians guilty of heresy? did Jesus let his church fall into heresy for 15 centuries? What happened to the gates of hell not prevailing?

            Ex 20:4 that you are talking about is part of the 1st commandment that is not about making statues. If that were true , God contradicts himself a few chapters later by commanding the jews to make statues!

            It is about not making GODS.

            Further, if we were to follow your logic, there would really be not 10 commandments, but 13, since there are 13 thou shalts/ and shalt nots.

            THe Catholic Church ALONE has the authority to give us the 10 commandments. WHy? Because Jesus gave it to the Church. He left authority with the church founded on the rock of Peter, not the log of Luther.

          • Sailosi Tarai

            This verse in exodus you have quoted, represents where god will commune with Moses. Is the Pope/bishop God, that he/they should exalt themselves? The catholic church is filled with heresies, graven images, necromancing, divinity. She is the 1st beast in revelations.

          • honeybadger

            This verse in exodus you have quoted, represents where god will commune with Moses.

            Really? EX 25 18-22? Its a pretty clear command that God wants Moses to build something.

            When did I say the Pope is God?

            THe Catholic church discovers and identifies heresies, like protestantism. or Seventh day Adventists.

          • Sailosi Tarai

            read the verses, you will see tht God says he will commune with Moses there. And with regards to the Pope exalting himself. Look at where he sits.

          • honeybadger

            Did he honor his mother?

          • Elephantinanocean

            No Catholic places Mary above Jesus. Mary points the way to Jesus. No Catholic worships Mary , worship is for God alone.The Catholic catechism would be a great place to start if you truly wanted to know what Catholics believe everything we believe is written right there you can get a free copy online.

      • honeybadger

        Do you ask your friends to pray for you? Yes? DO you believe they live on after death? Yes? Then why wouldnt you ask the one creature, who broke the chain of disobedience and said, finally, YES to God, to pray for you. For us. Is she not the mother of God?

        Is she not your mother? Are you among the body of Christ? YEs? Then she birthed you, too.

        How did God choose to come into the world?

        Stop protesting God. There is only one church, not 25,000.

        • Cindy Reschke Wundrow

          When you ask a friend to pray for or with you, you are asking your friend for support and comfort because they are able to be with you or speak with you. This is the here and now. As much as Mary was blessed above all to give birth to our precious Savior, even she would tell you (if she could) to pray to God for everything. Mary is in heaven, praising God, oblivious to the goings on here on earth.
          In Matthew, Jesus tells us how to pray: Matthew 6:9-13 “This, then, is how you should pray: “‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’ We are to pray to God; only he will hear our requests. No where in the Bible does God tell us to pray to Mary on our behalf. He asks that we come to him and no one else in prayer.
          A nice little book to read is “Visions of Heaven and Hell” by John Bunyan (57 pages)

          • honeybadger

            If you refuse to pray for your loved ones, or your enemies as COMMANDED by God, I’m not sure we have any common ground, friend.

          • Cindy Reschke Wundrow

            I pray to God a lot for a lot of reasons: for strength, for healing of those who are sick, for our government to lead us back to God. I do not ask Mary to intercede; she cannot. Jesus is our intercessor. He came to earth to live the perfect life as the sacrificial lamb for all the sins of all the people who have lived, who currently live and those who have not yet lived. I go directly to our Father in heaven as Jesus instructed us to in Matthew.

          • honeybadger

            I pray to God a lot for a lot of reasons: for strength, for healing of those who are sick, for our government to lead us back to God.

            So arn’t you mediating between those who are sick and those who work in the government? Where in the bible does it say that Cindy Wundrow is the mediator between man and God?

          • Cindy Reschke Wundrow

            So, in your way of thinking, when the Pope prays for people, he is also mediating? Where in the Holy Bible does it say the Pope is the mediator between God and man?
            We pray because God asks us to take all of our concerns, praise and thanks to him. It’s really the most simple thing in the world to pray and give thanks. Why make it difficult to just pray to God?

          • honeybadger

            If you are concerned about another person, you pray for them, but that is still mediating for them. We are co workers with God. We collaberate with him.

            If its ineffective to pray for others, or damning, then you would avoid it.

            And who said the bible is the final authority of how to pray? Where in the Bible does it say that the Bible is the source of all truth? Nowhere. THe bible is a DOCUMENT OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH thank you very much.

            Of course! pray to the Father!. It is right. But who knows Jesus, who is God, better than His mother? Would he deny her something? We have such pathetic offerings to god our prayers are weak. Mary brushes them up, puts them on a golden tray and offers it to the King. She’s the queen after all! Can there be a King without a queen?

            Look, as Catholics, we are not commanded to ask Mary, or the saints, to pray for us.

            But Christians have been doing it since the beginning of the Church.

            Here is Irenaeus (A.D. 120–200) a Father of the Church from “Against Heresies”

            “As by a virgin the human race had been bound to death, by a virgin it is saved, the balance being preserved, a virgin’s disobedience by a virgin’s obedience”

            Were all Christians wrong about Mary for 15 centuries?

          • Cindy Reschke Wundrow

            This is what I take away from your post: You have placed Mary in high esteem saying she is queen. Then to say my prayers are pathetic and it is only Mary who will ensure my prayers are heard, places Jesus below her and puts Mary as equal with God. But you are not commanded to pray to Mary or the saints by the Catholic church, but because “Christians” have been doing it since the beginning of the church you’re going to do it anyway.
            Im comfortable praying to God; I believe with all my Lutheran heart that he will hear my prayers and answer them, not always the way I’d like (as a sinner), but what he sees good for me to keep me focused on the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
            God be with you as you journey through life..

          • honeybadger

            I think its a great idea that you pray to God, he commands us to with “The Lords” prayer. But a righteous mans prayers are more efficacious than an unrighteous mans prayers, no?

            Mary was deemed Full of Grace by an angel. No other creature of God has had that remark made about them. Mary is in heaven now and what do the holy ones in heaven do? Rev 5-8 tells us that they pray. WHo do they pray for? Not for themselves, they are in heaven, no they pray for the Church. THey pray for us.

            I’m not confident enough in my righteuousness to shy away from asking the one made by god to be the mother of his Son, the one Full of Grace, who is the closest to her son than all other, to pray for me, and for my intentions.

            The church does not demand that we do this. None of this takes away from Jesus, who is the only way to know the father. But please understand why we do, and why, until Luther, every Christian did

            . Mary, the way God chose to enter the world and redeem mankind, is the fastest way to her Son.

            God Bless you, too! And, would you pray for me?

          • Sailosi Tarai

            Mary cannot be in heaven for we have not had the 2nd coming of Christ yet. Furthermore, how can you say, that the bible is not the authority on Gods word? who is then? Do you not believe that the bible was written while in the spirit of God. Do you not believe, that Gods word is the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow. Tell me, Was Christ not declared the Son of God. Is Christ not our salvation from sin? None of this has to do with Mary.

            And to answer your question. Within a month of Christs death, in the 1st century, Heresies had entered the church. Why do you think Paul wrote those letters? Why do you think he had to teach self-proclaimed Christians how to live in Christ.

            If that prayer comes from 120 – 200 ad. Then yes, they have been praying to the dead for 15 centuries.

          • honeybadger

            I feel like a mosquito at a nudist colony, I don’t know where to begin!

            I’ll pick 3:

            1) Furthermore, how can you say, that the bible is not the authority on Gods word?

            Where in the bible does it say that the bible is the final authority of Gods word

            2)Tell me, Was Christ not declared the Son of God.

            Yes he was declared to be God when being baptized in the Jordon. But was he not the Son of God before that? As an infant? As a fetus? An embryo? Was he born of Mary? So you tell me, who does that make Mary the mother of?

            3)Is Christ not our salvation from sin? None of this has to do with Mary.

            Yes he is, there is no other way we are to be saved. But how did Jesus come into the world? Through mary! Do you think that God just used her and threw her out like a cheap date? He chose one woman, not some random woman, but Mary. A real woman with a name and a mother and father. If you don’t believe this, you simply deny the Incarnation. God does use people and then throw them out.

            It most certainly does have something to do with mary whether you like it or not. And, like I said over and over, all christians understood this for 15 centuries. And you say all christains had it wrong for 15 centuries?


          • Sailosi Tarai

            Mary is not a God, nor Christ. Mary is not in heaven. You are praying to the dead.

          • honeybadger

            Rev 5-8 tell us that the holy ones are in heaven.

            Who are the holy ones? The Catholic church has always said they were the saints. Luther and then thousands of your protestent denominations changed it. BUt thats how the church has always interpreted it.

            You just change churches whenever you hear something you don’t like until you are alone! Thats not what God intended. That they are one.

          • Sailosi Tarai

            Protestants did not change the word of God.

            In the king James version, they are the saints that went through great tribulation, and have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and they serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne will dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more, Neither shall the sun shine light on them, nor any heat. For the lamb that is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
            (Rev 7; 14 – 17)

            If you assume that this means that they are in heaven, then you also must accept that they were still eating, drinking, and shedding tears in heaven before the 2nd coming. Because, the verse states they won’t have need of food, drink, light or heat anymore. And also, that God will wipe the tears from their eyes.

          • honeybadger

            DO you not agree that everyone can interpret the scriptures as theHoly Spirit moves them?

          • Sailosi Tarai

            It is the holy spirit that teaches us the way of the Lord. No man can teach us the way of the Lord. For Mans wisdom is Foolishness to God…
            Therefore, it is not us that interprets the Word of God. No, not us, but the Holy spirit reveals the truth. For Gods word is the truth.
            If any man claims to interpret the word of God, that man denies the Holy Spirit.

            Therefore lies the problem in churches, not only catholic, but many others, that interpret the Word in Mans wisdom. But to add to the problem, there are many that don’t read the word for themselves.

            This causes many to be lead astray by those that profess to teach them. Thus, many of the Lords sheep are deceived. And men can twist the word of God. But the holy spirit is perfect. And Gods word is perfect. Therefore, Only God can reveal the truth to him who seeks it.

            For the Word of God is the only truth in this world. And it is the Lord that reveals the truth to us, in HIS spirit, not in our wisdom, but in His infinite wisdom.

            The word of God leads us to him. Teaches us to be his servants, and submit our will to him. For God created the heavens, the earth and the seas, the firmament, and from dust, he created you and me.

            We are not as God, nor can we be, We are a created being and thus can do nothing without his Spirit who created us. So any man that asks for the truth to be revealed, in the name of Jesus our wonderful Savior, and believe in his heart that it shall been revealed, relies on God to understand his Word, and not on himself.

            Only those that trust in the Lords strength and Wisdom, and ask the Lord for it, from the depths of his/her heart, Believing that only God has wisdom while denying their own, will be given what s/he has asked for. Because he has denied himself, and thus made himself a servant to God, willingly, and as paul says:

            32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Rom; 8

            These are the disciples of Christ. Servants that obey his masters commandments. Those that deny themselves, for a servant has no ownership of himself, but is owned by his master. So what is a servant to speak? except the words his master has given him. What is a servant to do? except the tasks that his master has given him. How is a servant to understand his master without his master telling him?

            So, No it is not us that interprets the Word of God. IT is he who created us that reveals the truth to us in all things.

          • Elephantinanocean

            When grandma is sick dont we all get on Facebook and start a prayer chain and ask everyone to pray for grandma to get better . Catholics are asking Mary and the saints to pray for us on our behalf just like we all do on Facebook when we ask others to pray on our behalf as well. If you choose to believe that they cannot hear you therefore you believe it is pointless to ask for their prayers so be it but there is nothing in scripture to suggest otherwise in fact “We are surrounded by a cloud of witness” God bless

          • Cindy Reschke Wundrow

            The following is what Jesus says about prayer. From Matthew chapter 6:
            Matthew 6:5-15 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. “This, then, is how you should pray: “‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’ For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.”
            I wish you peace on your journey in this life. God bless.

          • honeybadger

            Sister, here is a prayer to the Blessed Virgin written in the 3rd Century.

            Beneath your
            we take refuge,
            Theotokos! Our
            prayers, do not despise
            in necessities,
            but from danger
            deliver us,
            only pure,
            only blessed one.

            There are thousands, millions of prayers written down the centuries.

            Who are you to judge someones prayer? The above prayer was written down. It is reasonable that people were praying to the God Bearer right after her death.

            Why, please tell me why, UNTIL LUTHER, did Christians all understand Mary to be especially helpful to their connection with her Son? You are assuming millions of christians, for 15 centuries were in error.

            And by whose authority? Yours. Or other human agents. My understanding, Catholic understanding comes from the Church that Jesus founded upon the rock of Peter. Its not MY authority. Its not human authority.

          • Cindy Reschke Wundrow

            I hesitated responding to this post until I thought carefully and in a Christian manner.
            I know you understand that Satan prowls like a lion, seeking to snare those who are weak in their faith. When we are weak in our faith, we look to other things for strength in the hope that it makes things better. I feel early Christians were persecuted beyond what we may understand. I believe there were false prophets seeking to take advantage of that, just as there are today.
            In Paul’s letter to the Ephesians (it is suggested he may have been in prison at the time based on things he points out) he tells us to put on the full armor of God:
            Ephesians 6:10-18 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.
            I do not judge you for praying. Pray ceaselessly to God and arm yourself with him.
            Blessed are we who seek the Lord….

          • honeybadger

            Sister, I’m glad you are thinking of this. This is serious stuff. You are right. The devil is a roaring. You are a serious person I can tell.

            I’m a total shmuck. But I know one thing, if the bible is the inspired word of God, which I believe it is, then who is to interpret it?

            If under the logic of the protestent, anyone, anyone, under the guidance of the holy spirit, can interpret the bible.

            So all the verses you quote to me, I could interpret myself to mean something completely different. And the next gal can interpret them the way she feels like it. Not that we wouldn’t give it our best shot. But look at the differences we have in all this, and we are looking at the same verses! How do we come up with such RADICALLY different interpretations?

            Thats why Jesus left that interpretation of his teaching to the apostles and their successors. They squashed wrong interpretations of the gospel (before the new testement was written).

            We must have someone interpret them, and I’m not going to claim any authority to do it. Ill rely on the deposit of tradition in the one church that Jesus founded. Now, scripture speaks to me when I read it, but I would never claim to interpret it myself.

            Otherwise, we have anarchy.

            Today, women are calling themselves men. Two men are “marrying” each other. I heard a radio program about a year ago in which a presbyterian elder and his gay son “discovered” that the story of sodom was not about, well, sodomy, but was about gang rape. And the the apostle paul just didn’t know about the science of homosexuality that we know now, so he was speaking out of the bigoted times he was living in.

            Pray for me!

          • Cindy Reschke Wundrow

            yes this is serious stuff, but you are not a schmuck. you obviously are a Christian who cares enough to speak up. Yes, this world is all messed up as you said. Rather weird sodomy is being sugar-coated to “gang rape”… homosexuality is the same today as it was in St. Paul’s time, but you and I could digress with those who want to sugar-coat that as well.
            I urge you to take quiet time with Ephesians. Let scripture speak to you through the Holy Spirit. St. Paul was a very intelligent man who God chose to help spread His Word. I see myself in those verses from Ephesians arming myself with God and His Word to fight the good fight against Satan and all those on earth who seek to separate me from the love of God (more scripture to refer to on that in Romans 8). We interpret scripture with more scripture. It’s all there in the Holy Bible. Granted, there are some things that remain a mystery, like the Holy Trinity (one God, but three Gods in one). I certainly hope I am able to meet St Paul, St. Peter, St John and all the apostles when I get to Heaven.
            We “schmucks” have to stick together to strengthen the faith of those around us and hopefully help one person to open their heart to the love and grace of God because he does love us all. Blessings on your day.

          • Sailosi Tarai

            Absolutely right. Read the bible in the spirit, and you will see that the bible is it’s own interpreter. There are many that are unaware of the bad practices from pastors/deacons/preachers/priests etc… ANd the Lord does say “he who seeks shall find.” In the past, a few centuries ago, there was a time in which chritians, were not allowed to read their bibles. That was a Roman Catholic church thing. Thus, the only way a christian could get the word of God, was from the priest. It is important, and God instructs us, to seek out the truth. Beware, that you are not deceived, for in the last days, there WILL be false prophets.

            I tell you sisters, We are in the last days… Now is the time to be vigilant, solidify our walk with God. For it will get tougher. We will be hated by all the nations. They will persecute us, and kill us. We must stay strong in our faith, and arm ourselves with the Armor of God. The spiritual armor that is our offense and defence against the enemy. For the end comes quickly.

          • Sailosi Tarai

            Absolutely right. Read the bible in the spirit, and you will see that the bible is it’s own interpreter. There are many that are unaware of the bad practices from pastors/deacons/preachers/priests etc… ANd the Lord does say “he who seeks shall find.” In the past, a few centuries ago, there was a time in which chritians, were not allowed to read their bibles. That was a Roman Catholic church thing. Thus, the only way a christian could get the word of God, was from the priest. It is important, and God instructs us, to seek out the truth. Beware, that you are not deceived, for in the last days, there WILL be false prophets.

            I tell you sisters, We are in the last days… Now is the time to be vigilant, solidify our walk with God. For it will get tougher. We will be hated by all the nations. They will persecute us, and kill us. We must stay strong in our faith, and arm ourselves with the Armor of God. The spiritual armor that is our offense and defence against the enemy. For the end comes quickly.

            I apologise for my earlier posts, i am extremely angry with all the heretical teachings among all demoninations.
            God bless you sister.

          • honeybadger

            But who is to say what is heretical? If it is not the One True church is it not anarchy?

          • Sailosi Tarai

            The one true Church are those that live in Christ. It is not a building. IN revelations, it is written that there are 7 churches. Each church represents a particular time period. We are the last church, the laodecian church, and if you read what it says, you may disappointed. The laodecian church is called ‘lukewarm’ by Christ. Please, read Gods word in the spirit, without the help of someone else to interpret it, and seek out the truth for yourself.

            I tell you this out of Love, not judgement. For Gods word judges us all.

          • Elephantinanocean

            Thank you and peace be with you. God Bless !

          • Elephantinanocean

            When grandma is sick dont we all get on Facebook and start a prayer chain and ask everyone to pray for grandma to get better . Catholics are asking Mary and the saints to pray for us on our behalf just like we all do on Facebook when we ask others to pray on our behalf as well. If you choose to believe that they cannot hear you therefore you believe it is pointless to ask for their prayers so be it but there is nothing in scripture to suggest otherwise in fact “We are surrounded by a cloud of witness”

          • Sailosi Tarai

            how is mary in heaven? where does it say that? Does it not say.

            In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. GEN 3:19

            And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire REV 20: 14, 15

            “Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. DAN 12:2

            James Aitken Wylie; To summarise his argument: IF we go to heaven when we die, what purpose is there for the 2nd coming of christ? The 2nd coming of christ is when he will raise the Dead. The dead do not automatically go to heaven.

            before Jesus raised Lazarus he said to his disciples: These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. 12Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 13Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.

            Then to Martha: Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died. 22But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee. 23Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. 24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. 25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? 27She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

            So as you can see, Jesus specifically said to his disciples that he was sleeping. Martha also said that her brother will rise again on judgement day. We are sleeping, according to Jesus, when we die. And, thus we are resurrected when he returns – the 2nd coming.

            Thus, it is not biblical, to suggest that Mary is in heaven. @honeybadger: Mary is Not GOD or Christ.

          • Cindy Reschke Wundrow

            Good morning. I would ask you to review the story of the crucifixion. As Jesus is being mocked and taunted, one of the criminals also mocks him. The other criminal professes his faith and tells the other that Jesus is innocent of everything he was put on trial by the leaders of the church. He turns to Jesus and asks for forgiveness. Jesus tells him “today you will be with me in paradise”. I would submit that this is evidence that believers in God go to heaven.
            Also refer to the parable of the rich man and poor Lazarus.
            The 2nd coming is the final judgement for those who are still living. The 2nd coming would mean there are still people given the opportunity to hear the Word of God and come to faith and receive God’s grace. However today’s society seeks to silence those who speak God’s Word.

            Question for you: our human bodies are separate from our spiritual essences. Where go you believe our spiritual essence goes after death?

          • Sailosi Tarai

            If Christ did not die on the cross for ALL our sins, no one would enter the kingdom of heaven, especially not thieves and sinners. But before they died, they put their faith in Christ. Thus, he said they would be with him in paradise, because they believed in him, for Christ, and Christ alone saves.

            Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. MATT 24: 23, 24

            There is no secret rapture. There is no scriptural evidence of going to heaven, purgatory or hell before the 2nd coming, before judgement day.

            Christ is the son of God, given Authority by his father, savior of Mankind, redeemer of sins. Christ is my savior.

            This is what the bible says.

            And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul” (Genesis 2:7, KJV).

            7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12; 7

            If souls existed as separate entities that lived on after we died, that would mean we have immortality. However, the Bible says human beings do not have immortality. Only God is immortal (see 1 Timothy 6:15, 16). Paul says that the righteous “seek for glory, honor, and immortality” (Romans 2:7). If we had immortal souls, why would the righteous seek after something they already have?

            Though we may die, Jesus says, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.” (John 11:25). We will receive immortality when Jesus comes again (see 1 Corinthians 15:51-54). The Bible says that all those who have died—both righteous and wicked—will be raised to life in one of two resurrections. The righteous will be raised to life at Jesus’ second coming. “ For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16, NKJV). According to this verse, the righteous do not to go heaven when they die. They remain asleep in the grave until Jesus returns and raises them to immortal life (see 1 Corinthians 15:50-57).

            The wicked are raised to life in a separate resurrection—the resurrection of condemnation. Jesus said, “Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.” (John 5:28, 29, NKJV).

            The prophets never mention in the Bible that the righteous immediately go to heaven or the wicked go to hell when they die. Neither did Jesus and His apostles teach it. When Jesus was about to leave His disciples, He did not tell them they would soon come to Him. “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.” (John 14:1-3, NKJV).

            When He returns, our loved ones asleep in Christ will awake from their tombs. No matter how long the time has passed, be it long or short, will be but a moment to them. By the voice of Jesus, they are called forth from their deep slumber they will begin to think just where they ceased, awakening to a glorious immortality.

            “For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible…So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: ‘Death is swallowed up in victory.’”

            The last sensation was the pang of death, the last thought, that they were falling beneath the power of the grave, but then, imagine, when they arise from the tomb, to the shout,

            “O Death, where is your sting?

            O Hades, where is your victory?” (1 Corinthians 15:55).

        • m-nj

          the bottom line is there is NO
          Biblical example of a live human on earth praying to a dead human being
          (alive in spirit in heaven), or asking a dead human being (alive in
          spirit in heaven) to pray for them. NONE. But Jesus gave us the
          model… we pray TO the Father, in the name of the Son.

        • m-nj

          others have said it very well, and my post seems to keep getting delayed since i was linking to outside backup pages.

          the bottom line is there is NO Biblical example of a live human on earth praying to a dead human being (alive in spirit in heaven), or asking a dead human being (alive in spirit in heaven) to pray for them. NONE. But Jesus gave us the model… we pray TO the Father, in the name of the Son.

          • Elephantinanocean

            “Dead human who is alive in spirit,” could you expand upon this teaching please? At least for me, i have died in the waters of baptism and rose again a new creation in Christ, I can not die again. You may take this old ragged body, but i will live on in Jesus Christ.

            Mathew 17 :There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

            “the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints” (Rev. 5:8).

          • honeybadger

            The smoke of the incense along with the prayers of the holy ones went up before God from the hand of the angel. Rev 8-4
            Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incence, which are the prayers of the holy ones.
            Rev 5-8
            WHo are the holy ones? They are friends of God in heaven. Those who died on earth and are now living in heaven, sharing in the diving life of the trinity.

            Praying to saints in heaven is what Christians have done for 20 centuries. That is, right up until the time that Luther decided, by HIS authority, to create his own church.

            Your logic would have the Christian church under full heresy for 15 centuries. Was the Church, the body of God wrong for that long, only to finally be saved by luther? ANd then to divide over and over and over, into 25,000 denominations?

            And where in the Bible does it say that the source of truth is in the Bible alone? You appeal to the bible, but where does it say in the bible that the bible is the only source of truth? Nowhere.

            Did Jesus say, “take this, all of you, and read from it?”

  • Gary

    He is a Catholic. Of course he is going to pervert the Bible. That is what Catholics do.

    • disqus_Qj3jWEz0QV

      Tim Kaine is not a Catholic

    • Martin

      No that’s not what they do. Someone fed you wrong information.

      • Gary

        Should I believe you, or my lying eyes?

        • Martin

          you should believe me, you cant hide your lying eyes.

          • Cindy Reschke Wundrow

            I see what you did there 🙂

    • Mary Waterton

      “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?” (Mt 7:3) ……….. Many Protestant Churches (ex: Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Methodists, Lutherans) are further down the road toward Sodom than the Catholic Church in that they are currently ordaining & marrying homosexuals.

      • Gary

        Kaine is a catholic. But you are right about the Protestant churches.

      • Cindy Reschke Wundrow

        This won’t clear up all the questions, but here we go. The Lutheran Church has several synods within. The WELS (Wisconsin Ev. Lutheran Synod) and the ELS (Evangelical Lutheran Synod) DO NOT subscribe to the same sex marriage travesty. You will not find any ordained homosexual ministers in either. However, The ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America) is on board with same sex marriage and does have ordained homosexual ministers and performs same sex marriages. I’m not certain about the Missouri Synod, but there may be discourse amongst its members as to support for same sex marriage. Not all Lutheran Synods subscribe to the evil in this world, but adhere to the teachings in the Holy Bible.

        • Stan

          Missouri Synod agrees with Wels and ELS Synods on Homosexuality!

      • Sailosi Tarai

        while i agree, There are no degrees of sin. Sin, is sin. Thus, if you look at the history, present, and future of this RCC, you cannot deny that it has blasphemed our Lord, That it has wiped out whole civilisations, That its rituals are ungodly. They are the beast in revelations, and they know it too.

  • Paul

    Liberals rarely let facts or sound theology get in the way of their agendas

  • mallen717

    Acts 5:28-9 “We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name,” he said. “Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us responsible for this man’s blood.” But Peter and the other apostles replied, “We must obey God rather than men.”

    Woe to a man such as Kaine who looks to idols in cathedrals to save him on Judgement Day.

  • Patmos

    Dan Quayle can finally breath a sigh of relief: He’s not on record anymore as having said the dumbest thing ever by a vice presidential candidate.

    • Stan

      Pelosi has had the record for the dumbest thing ever said for saying we have to pass this bill to see what’s in it.

  • m-nj

    i think the reason Kaine went to Genesis 1 (besides poor theology) is exactly b/c he was trying to undermine the foundational creation of account of one man and one woman… maybe he’s smarter than he looks, and most people (including many christians) are Biblically illiterate and will take his words as delivered without ever searching out the context.

    • Dean Bruckner

      Kaine’s statement is evil, not dumb. He knows exactly what he is doing, at the cost of his eternal soul.

  • David Jordan

    2 peter 2:1-3 says this will happen………
    “But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be
    false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive
    heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon
    themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and
    because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed
    they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long
    ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep”

  • Aliquantillus

    This is all the effect of Francis’ modernist pontificate, which produced Amoris Laetititia. The Pope himself has indicated recently that this Encyclical should be interpreted in favour of the possibility for civilly divorced and remarried couples to receive Holy Communioni. Another thing is that Francis is now transforming John Paul II’s Institute for the Family by a number of liberal appointments. The Church is changing her position on such fundamental issues as marriage and sexual immorality. Soon Catholicism will be among the supporters of the gay agenda and the gender ideology and join the secularist forces in persecuting traditional Christianity and other religions which still uphold natural marriage, the natural law, and the biblical commandments on human sexuality. Pope Pius XII, and even Paul VI would turn in their graves if they knew what is happening in the Vatican of today.

    • Sailosi Tarai

      Sorry to disappoint you, but the catholic church is everything, except Christ like. The RCC, since the 3rd century has been pagan. Nothing about the Catholic church is in line with the word of God. This is not a new thing, it has been the case for many centuries. The Catholic church is responsible for more crimes against humanity, then they could ever make up for. The Catholic church has claimed authority over Gods word, which they have felt they have been ordained to Change Gods word, remove from it, and even add to it. This RCC, is the 1st Beast in revelations. look at bible prophecy, it is clear that this Pope will reign as the anti-christ.

      • Aliquantillus

        In my opinion you are over-speculative as well as uninformed about the Catholic Church, and riding a too high horse. I have no problem in admitting that there are flaws and wrongs in Catholicism, but it is nonsense to claim that the Church is pagan. The subject of the article was Tim Kaine’s flouting of the biblical commandments about marriage and sexual morality, which have been faithfully transmitted by the Church throughout the ages. Historically, it is non-Catholic (i.e. Protestant) Christianity which has introduced the novelty of divorce, contrary to biblical morality. In a similar way, it is Protestantism which has introduced Higher Biblical Criticism already in the XIXth century, and the general undermining of the faith by theological liberalism.

        • Sailosi Tarai

          so great that you will admit to the flaws lol. Millions of real Christians were persecuted, killed in the name of GOD from the RCC. Not to mention, Constantine merged pagan rome rituals with RCC christianity. The pagan worship of sunday, the worship of Mary, The pagan christmas/easter. And even now, that satanic jesuit pope changes the word of God as he sees fit. I will Reiterate,
          The Roman Catholic Church, The pope and everything acssociated with it’s heretical existence, is Pagan.

          • Aliquantillus

            You assume an attitude as if you have a position of Magisterium in the Church. And yet you are expressing just your private opinion. Don’t you think it a bit foolish that on the one side you attack the authority of the Church, and on the other side you assume a position of authority in it? Should Christians listen to you instead of the Pope? Who has given you this office of authority?

            As to your position that everything in the Church is pagan, it is ridiculous. The Church had a long and bitter fight with paganism. If the Church herself was pagan, this fight would never have happened because it would have been superfluous. From what you say I can only conclude that you don’t have any scholarly knowledge of Church history but are just expressing your private opinion, again.

            To me the basic problem of much of your criticism is that you want to give a biblical criticism of the Church, while failing to acknowledge that the NT was formed and canonized in the first centuries of the Church. There would be no NT today without the Church.

          • Sailosi Tarai

            well, you are entitled to your opinion. But i suggest you do some researching throughout history. For you seem to lack knowledge in the history of the church. For 1000 years catholics were not allowed to read the bible, or even own one.

          • Aliquantillus

            I think that you have first to understand the position of the Catholic Church before attempting to criticize it. To my knowledge the Church never principally prohibited the reading of the Scriptures, although such prohibitions as practical measures certainly were in force from time to time. She only required that lay people claim no authority to interpret Scripture on their own, independent from the authority of the Church. This is because Catholic Church considers the Bible as first and foremost the holy book of the believing community as a whole, not of the individual Catholic. That people didn’t own the Bible in the Middle Ages is only natural, since books were very expensive. But it was the same in Judaism. Only the learned and rich were in the possession of a Bible.

            This is an understandable position from a historical perspective. In Ancient Israel it was the same. The Scriptures, in particular the books of the Torah, were the property of the priesthood. They had the authority to explain the commandments of God to the lay people. And they had the Magisterium to correct false opinions. It is easy to see that this is the only way to keep a nation or a church together. If lay people are permitted to express and develop their private exegesis and interpretation, everything falls apart, which is exactly the problem with Protestantism. If the Israelites of biblical timese were permitted to explain the Bible on their own, the nation would have ceased to exist and fallen apart into thousand sects.

            After the destruction of the Temple this teaching authority in Judaism was transferred to the Rabbis, and in the Christian world a similar development after the death of the Apostles led to the establishment of episcopal authority, and ultimately, the Papacy.

            In Judaism as well as in Catholicism there is thus an authority structure which functions as a controlling force against these private interpretations. In Judaism we have the rabbinal halachic authority of the great Poskim. If this authority didn’t exist, everyone would develop a halachah of his own and this would end in a complete chaos of thousands different manners of observance.

            I don’t deny that there are several problems with these authority structures. But I don’t see how they can be solved by means of the Protestant principle of sola Scriptura. For sola Scriptura is not enough to establish a religion and to preserve the unity of this religion. You will always need a guiding tradition and a competent authority which functions as a judge and as the garantee of unity. Every community is only a unity if there is a unifying principle of authority.

            This can easily be illustrated by a secular example, for example the constitutional framework of the United States. It is clear as daylight that the Constitution of the US cannot function apart from a competent authority which interprets it, and without an executive power to enforce it. What would become of the US if everyone were permitted to interpret the Constitution on his own? The Republic would fall apart because everyone would do what is good in his own eyes. That’s the deepest problem of Protestantism: subjectivistic individualism.

          • Sailosi Tarai

            That authority is Christ. not the pope, nor bishop, nor deacon. All of us are condemned by Gods law.
            He is the righteous judge, not men. Thus, the authority structure is as Christ said. We, the church are his bride. Thus, he is our husband. And God is very clear on the relationship of marriage. The woman will desire her husband and the husband shall rule over her.

            If we are the Bride of Christ, and Christ is our husband, then isn’t he our ruler? Isn’t he our authority?
            Regardless of of how the Jews did it, it was not what the Lord had planned for his church. Jesus called the scribes and the pharisees hypocrites.

            Jesus is our high priest in the order of Melchizedek. He is the one we run to, the one we confess our sins too, the one we seek for truth and life from the spirit of our Lord. No man can take his place. Thus, Jesus Christ our savior is our authority, and therefore the rock in which we built our foundation on. It is the holy spirit that interprets the scriptures for us, the holy spirit teaches us the way of the Lord. No man can do this.

            With regard to your question. How can you be sure that your heads of the church do not misinterpret the bible? Do men have wisdom like God has wisdom? God instructs us to live by his word. His word is found in Christ. For he is the word, and the word became flesh. And his word is found in the Bible which is interpreted by the Holy spirit.

            Now i apologise for coming across so angrily, i pray you forgive me brother. God bless you.

  • Tim Kaine is a phoney. He claims to be a “devout” Catholic. What makes him devout? No Catholic can consider himself devout if he supports abortion. Period. As to his support of gay marriage, he knows full well if he is a devout Catholic that the Catholic Church cannot change that position. It is fixed pernmanently. Kaine is a fraud.

  • As somebody who believed the bible to the hilt, challenged many false teachers with scripture, never losing, and who obeyed scripture literally many years, I have to agree now with some so-called heathen, and renounce my judgmental ways and my calling what people do in their privacy in consensual partnership as being their business, not mine. I no longer hold the bible as a moral compass, being that a book that condones slavery cannot be accepted as true moral ethics. And mind you all the talk of homosexuality, with no condemnation against adultery, which is in ten commandments, and has punishment of death. No talk of single people’s sex either, it has been against homosexuals to the point of hypocritical attacks unjustified, except by clowns. Just telling it clearly as I see it .

    • Patmos

      No one is calling for adultery to be approved by the Supreme Court. As for slavery, I guess we should just ignore Philemon? You sound like Tim Kaine: selfishly viewing the world as you see it, and not seeing it how it is.

      • Adultery is not a crime here, nor does our nation give it the death penalty like the bible. IT is totally acceptable by all, including pastors. Get real. Philemon was a letter where Paul asked a friend to make his slave free. BUt it was not a teaching to rid slavery. And he told the runaway slave to return to his master, with the master to decide if he could be free, be a slave again, or to punish the slave. The punishment for slaves who ran away was death.

        • Keith

          I don’t know what you’ve been smoking if you are honestly making a claim that adultery is accepted by all, including pastors. Nobody is saying it should be illegal, just like nobody is saying homosexuality should be illegal. But if I own a public business making signs, nobody says that if a guy cheating on his wife asked me to make him a sign rubbing it in her face and celebrating it, that I should be forced to do that under threat of fiscal ruin. That expectation and threat is there when talking about gay marriage. Just because we aren’t pushing for the death penalty for cheaters isn’t the same as condoning it. Also, I suggest you learn about different forms of slavery in the Roman Empire. Many slaves at that time were a form of indentured servants who willingly entered that arrangement because it benefited them as well. If you only understand slavery from the perspective of American history it leaves some large gaps.

          • Supposedly the bible is for today as well. JEsus the same yesterday, today, and forever. Today’s slaves are clearly those who work minimum wage for hard labor like warehouse, factory, fastfood, with salaries that dont pay for a studio apartment for one person who works more than 40 hours a week. Also those in jails for first time minor offenses, spending years, and being forced to work, making 50 cents an hour doing so. The slavemasters are in executive suites in $5000 suits, catered lunches, private jets, and tax shelters. Look at the back of your one dollar bill. The seal of the US- a pyramid- land of slavery, Egypt. Above it is the all-seeing eye of horus, a symbol of lucifer– one nation under god. below is in latin (the language of the RC church) Ordos uno seclorum.. New world order. United States, the nation founded on Christianity. Think on that. My ebooks are EXPOSING THE MONEY MACHINE and soon to be published, THE UNTOLD NATURE OF CHRISTIANITY

          • Keith

            Wow, I wish I could be there when you tell a black person that working for minimum wage is slavery.

    • Ronald Ellenburg

      Christianity is not about “obeying” scripture. It’s about a literal one-on-one relationship daily with Jesus Christ. You cannot have that and know the beauty and peace of his love and merely walk away from it claiming it doesn’t line up with “man’s” ways. Man’s ways are not God’s ways and God is always right. I suggest you get on your knees and repent of your sins and truly turn your heart over to Him. Until you understand that HE is the creator and the boss and truly have a relationship with Him, you’re simply someone who has been duped by satan…like so many others. My relationship with Jesus Christ is the most wonderful thing I’ve ever known in this life and it is because of that relationship that I have peace in my heart, joy in my soul and hope for the future he has prepared for me. It is my hope that you too find that most awesome place and realize that absolutely everything about you…along with your free will, is a gift from God and that His love for you is unending. Rethink your position before it’s too late. If you know anything about the Bible, you know the consequences of turning away from God. Forever is a really long time and Hell is still hot. You are in my prayers!

    • Tray Vis

      This point of discussion, homosexuality, has simply been in the spotlight. That doesn’t minimize or magnify any other sin, it’s just where people’s attention has been. Therefore what’s on the plate is usually what is discussed. And from a Christian standpoint, its an opportunity to address the discussion with what light God’s word sheds on it, and the dialog it might open up.

    • Dean Bruckner

      Sitting in judgment on God never ends well. Repent and humble yourself, I implore you!

      • Dean and Mike. I have come to this conclusion. I practice no worldliness, such as seminary (mans’ institution- as if learning from books written by men charging money) does nothing to make you a representative of a supposedly divine being. I have studied on my own 10,000 hours the bible, some in original greek and hebrew, and have obeyed and served diligently 11 years. I had visions, and was sent as an apostle to preach the streets of urban city. I now see the true character of the bible, that it was created by Rome as a form of control and diversion, and while it IS important to NOT be worldly (chasing money, sex, approval, fame, hedonistic desires, selfishness) and to not conform to the world (romans 12:1,2). I do believe in loving neighbor as much as self, and treating others as i want to be treated. I do not practice homosexuality, nor chase after sex of any kind, I simply do not condemn people for what they do consensually behind closed doors, hetero or homo. I do not hold the writings of a book to be ethically sound when it condones and gives laws regarding acquisition and treatment of slaves, tells slaves to be obedient and subservient no matter how wicked the master, or to honor and obey wicked man’s laws, like god put nations leaders in power, to be honored and obeyed (I will do neither for those bloodsucking parasites), and more that is not worth the paper to wipe my butt with.

        • Bodysuit_Man

          You studied the Bible like a book and never allowed the Spirit to enter in brother. You’re accepting some of the Bible and denying other parts; cherry-picking. You don’t thing what men do behind closed doors can be sin? Nothing is secret from God, he’s all-knowing and all-seeing. Rome didn’t create the Bible! My goodness, you need to pray diligently about what you’re doing man.

      • I dont judge god, I judge the bible.

        • Bodysuit_Man

          The Bible is the Word of God, which became flesh and dwelt among us (Jesus). Satan is misleading you friend.

          • i learned to regurgitate what the pastors told me to, also, until (oh, heaven forbid!!) I learned to think for myself, and not be a sheep. Sooo a book came and dwelt among you, and was crucified. But of course you are a christian, so you will not ask questions or challenge a book, if it says it is written by God, which you believe, because the book says so. Okay, makes sense. And you believe the pastors, because they went to seminary. Boy, that is real good proof for a total moron who believes anything, if the person says he got his authority from a spiritual being, when in reality, he just learned his doctrine from a college, and the doctrines are provably false, using scripture. Thank god for blind idiots and their blind guides, how else could pastors make millions.

    • Mike

      I know someone Who can clear your worldly eyes. I hope it won’t be too late for you!

    • Bodysuit_Man

      Dr. Brown does mention all other sexual sin, as is mentioned in the Bible. Read carefully–the article and the Bible. And stop paying attention to what men here on earth say is or isn’t okay. Rely on the Word of God, not your own feelings or opinions, and stop misleading yourself and others.

  • Suaso

    Tim Kaine is a perfect example of a failed Jesuit. Had he not been a failure, he would still be a Jesuit priest.

  • Dean Bruckner

    His doctrine is false and demonic.

  • Jim Walker

    Tim is CINO.

  • Kenneth W Boyd

    Pass this article on . It is true in its content ! AMEN !

  • Foster

    What part of abomination do you not understand?

  • Whosyourdaddy

    Gotta watch them catholics…they will twist the good book all around like they twist arms to get someone to agree with them.

  • newton farmer

    We live in a country where we have freedom of religion and freedom of speech. I mean when a paster celebrates the death of 49 people in Orlando social Christians say nothing but let a Christian say something positive about gays then all hell breaks loose in social conservative circles.

    • Elephantinanocean

      When a preacher whom no one has never heard of before with a congregation of 10 people makes a insane comment no it doesn’t get national attention.

      When a Vice Presidential candidate during a campaign and sitting United States senator and former governor of Virginia makes a insane statement yes it gets national attention.

      You should not be shocked by this, it’s common sense.

      • newton farmer

        no one has hear of these preachers? it was all over the news an there were more then one. also look at the polls majority of Catholics support things like gay rights, women priest an marriage for priest. just like senator Kaine

        • Jim Walker

          I don’t support that pasta’s incendiary remarks and neither do I support Tim’s. Both are goons.

          • newton farmer

            All I know is that a lot of people said a lot of horrible things about Obama / Bien. they still where elected twice

          • Bodysuit_Man

            So what? People do all kinds of disgusting sinful things in this world. The arbiters of good and evil are not men elected by other men. God is the one who has laid out laws on every subject and all we have to do to know what they are is open a book (the Bible, in case you’re even more uninformed than you appear here–which would be scary). Get in it and find out what you’re doing outside His will. What will be your excuse on that great and terrible day of judgement, too busy? The President said it was okay? The Supreme Court said it was okay? That won’t fly bro.

          • Patricia Arrington

            Amen I so agree.I tell my grandchildren all the time now(everyday!), that we can not trust other men. We can only trust God. And just because the law or grown up leaders ect.. says it is ok,and makes sin a law and If it is not right with what the word of God says about homosexuality, aborting babies leading others to believe what is evil good and good evil.. God gives us free will to obey His commandments. We should not be forced to sin..We are to pray for the sinners.. period..Amen.. I do pray God will have mercy on these people..Amen.

        • Sailosi Tarai

          No real, bible believing, Disciple of Christ, would accept this, or any other sin that our world appears to embrace. The Lord says “you will know them by their fruits”. This means that ANYONE, that claims to support an act, law or anything that is in direct conflict with Gods Word, is not, i repeat, is not a true Christian. Here is why.

          For the lord says “Whosoever will come after me, Let him DENY himself, pick up his cross daily, and follow me”. This is the description of a true, bible believing christian.

    • Mo86

      Anything to say on the content of this article?

      • Mike

        God has said it, and so it is! Regardless of how we personally may feel or think we feel, we are judged based on the unchanging rules God has established throughout the Bible.

        • Bodysuit_Man

          That’s the important thing here. As we see more and more every day, human beings change their minds, morals, definitions and laws frequently. The only law we can rely on is God’s unchanging law. His unchanging, uncompromising, no-excuses rules are all we have to go by. Sinners can change all the laws they want here on earth, but where will that get them in the end?

          Kaine is obviously quite unfamiliar with the Word of God, and he’s speaking to people who are at least as mislead as he is. I would tell him to keep reading if he thinks Genesis chapter one is the best place to see how pleased He is with His creation. There WILL be a day of judgement when Jesus returns and we all stand before the throne of God to be judged by His Word. That’s what condemns us or saves us, and there won’t be any twisting of scriptures or excuses, no arguments to God.

          People better start getting real and crying out to God to forgive them. Stop making excuses for all that sin and get familiar with the Bible. He is the ultimate judge. And when sinners say “don’t judge me” they are being ridiculous. The Word judges you and your own conscious tells you you are sinning. Stop lying to yourselves! Followers of Jesus are told to use righteous judgement, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with telling someone who is heading into a fire that they are in danger. In fact, it’s imperative that we tell people they are not in line with the Word of God, as the likes of Paul, Peter, James, John, Jude and Jesus Christ himself did.

    • Sailosi Tarai

      ridiculous. Are you suggesting that we christians cannot ‘put someone straight’ when they desecrate the word of God? The word of God is ‘never changing’, and a PRIEST, would know that. So, he openly attempts to change the word of God.
      Your response is not correct. It has nothing to do with the LBGT agenda, and EVERYTHING to do with the desecration of Gods Word.

  • Infrastructure guru

    “Natural Family?!” You mean incest/inbreeding like the Bible says?

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