Christian Leaders, Please Speak the Truth About Homosexuality Plainly and With Love

By Michael Brown Published on July 16, 2017

To my brothers and sisters in ministry, I appeal to you in the sight of God: Please speak plainly and clearly when it comes to homosexuality, and please do so with compassion and love.

At this critical time in history, we’ve got no business dancing around these life and death issues, issues which affect people we love. We’ve got no business playing games with words, trying to be so subtle that no one understand us, working so hard not to offend that we fail to warn and save. We’ve got no business being unclear when God’s Word is so clear, and we’ve got no business calling ourselves representatives of Jesus when our hearts don’t flow with His love.

How’s the Current Strategy Working?

Just consider what’s happening in our society today.

Drag queens are reading stories to our two-year-old children in libraries.

Kindergarteners are learning about being trans.

Middle-schoolers are encouraged to come out as gay without their parents knowing. College students have to share their PGPs (Preferred Gender Pronouns) at the start of each semester (as in, “I’m Shannon, and my preferred gender pronouns are ze and zir.”).

Business colleagues have lost their livelihoods because they could not in good conscience participate in a same-sex “wedding.”

And we’re afraid to be direct and clear because we don’t want to offend someone? How is that strategy working?

How about speaking the truth in love — with tears, with compassion, and with care, but without compromise?

In Ontario, if your child identifies as transgender and you don’t affirm and support them, they can report you to their school, which can report you to the government, and your child can be taken from you to be raised by others. This is now the law in Ontario!

Yet we’re afraid that if we speak up we’ll lose some tithing members? What kind of compromise is this? Are we mercenaries or are we men and women of God?

The Boat is Ready to Capsize

Things have gotten to the point where boys and men are competing against girls and women, smashing records and winning competitions because they identify as females. But we don’t want to rock the boat just in case one of our friends or family members is transgender.

How about speaking the truth in love — with tears, with compassion, and with care, but without compromise? True compassion is not silent. True compassion warns.

There’s a reason some of us have been sounding the alarm for years, despite the vilification that comes our way and despite the doors of ministry that shut in our face. We’ve seen where this was going and we’ve known that the price to pay for silence is much greater than the price to pay for obedience. Do we still not see the handwriting on the wall?

Our society is now celebrating menstruating “men” and glorifying pregnant “dads” who plan to breastfeed their kids, yet we don’t want to rock the boat. My friend, the boat is ready to capsize!

One California college is dealing with a credible threat of violence from a 46-year-old male student who identifies as a woman and is upset because there are no urinals in the women’s restrooms. As a local website reports, “She also noted how walking around on Southwestern’s campus in a bra or panties for three days has opened her eyes to having the brain of a woman, but having male anatomy.”

This is sickness and madness, yet rather than raise our voices like a trumpet and teach clearly about gender and sexuality and marriage, we retreat behind our safe sermons and soft words. In the process, we hurt people far more than we help them.

True Love Doesn’t Compromise

Before reaching out to the LGBT community, ask God for a supernatural baptism of love for them.

I was speaking at a conference last year when the conference organizer stated that a famous American pastor now supported same-sex “marriage.” Because I had this pastor’s contact information, I texted him, asking him how he would respond. He replied, “I don’t support this. Please ask him to correct it.”

I was glad he responded like this, but that only begged the question. Why was there any confusion to start? Why did the conference organizer, himself a careful theologian, get this pastor’s position so wrong?

Some of you are loud and clear when speaking about these issues in private but warm and fuzzy when speaking about them in public. To what purpose? To help whom?

I fully understand that most of us these days have loved ones who identify as LGBT, and we care for them deeply. As expressed very powerfully in a blog post by Rebecca K. Reynolds,

There’s a huge difference between speaking of gay people categorically and speaking of your gay friend, Christine, who was brutally abused by her uncle for two decades and now feels nauseated every time she smells a man. It might be possible for me to walk with an evangelical swagger and act like an expert when postulating about the first category, but the second is a real person whose story brings me to my knees.

That is a perspective we must carry in our hearts, and when people ask me about me about reaching out to the LGBT community, the first thing I tell them is to ask God for a supernatural baptism of love for them. Love reflects the heart of God. Love reflects the life and death of our Savior. Love “bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things” (1 Cor. 13:7).

But love doesn’t compromise. If it did, it would no longer be love. That’s why Reynolds could also write, “Do I think sex outside of marriage is wrong? Absolutely. Do I believe in the sanctity of male-female marriage? Yes.

“Do I also sometimes kneel beside my bed and weep for my abused friends by name — friends who seek relief in ways that don’t align with God’s word? Yes. I do.”

Oh, that all of us would have such hearts!

Souls are at Stake!

And that brings me to the last reason why we must speak the truth in love to our congregations and followers.

If we don’t lovingly warn that gay couple in our church about the wrongness of their relationship, we have their blood on our hands.

Let us stop dancing around the greatest spiritual and moral challenge of this generation, and let us do the right thing.

If we don’t tell that lesbian-identified teenager that God did not make her gay, offering her real hope in Jesus, we are contributing to her demise.

If we don’t urge that husband not to leave his wife and have sex-change surgery, telling him we’ll get in the trenches and stand with him for his marriage, he can point to us on judgment day: “They never told me it was wrong!”

So, I’m pleading with you as a fellow-leader and fellow-elder and fellow-servant. Let us stop dancing around the greatest spiritual and moral challenge of this generation, and let us do the right thing, regardless of cost or consequence. We owe it to God. We owe it our kids and grandkids. And we owe it to those who identify as LGBT.

Let’s Speak the Truth in Love

Just this week I received an email from a woman named Nadia who used to be “married” to another woman. She wrote, “Hi Dr. Brown! First I want to thank you for having the courage to speak the truth in love on various unpopular topics, especially marriage and sexuality. Your teaching helped me find freedom in my own life.”

Let us help others find freedom as well, the freedom that comes by knowing the truth (see John 8:31-32).

So from the depth of my heart, in the strongest way I know, I urge you once more: Please join me in speaking the truth in love. The Father will be glad as you do.

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  • username_daniel

    Don’t forget to “recommend”!

  • Gary

    Or, you could stop casting pearls before swine.

  • Paul1234

    Mr. Brown,

    It’s interesting that you speak for no compromise in regards to homosexuality, but then compromise when it comes to using the “Message” version. You know full well how the “Message” version sanitizes the three new testament scriptures that speak on homosexuality. Those three passages in Romans 1, 1 Cor. 6, and 1 Tim. 1 were so neutralized in the “Message” that it has earned a nickname among some as the “homosexual’s bible.” And yet, you don’t mind if people use it at all.

    You sir, need this article more than your brethren in the ministry.

    • GPS Daddy

      Hogwash

    • Ron Boyson

      There is no Homosexual Bible, Paul. The Bible is spiritually given and spiritually discerned
      . God probably knew not everyone who read it would be able to speak Hebrew or Aramaic.

      • Paul1234

        I didn’t say there was a homosexual bible. Please read the comment carefully. I said the “Message” version has earned a nickname among some as the “homosexual’s bible. The reason for this is due to the fact that there are 3 passages in the New Testament that condemn homosexuality – in Romans 1, in ! Cor. 6, and in 1 Tim. 1. The “Message” version re-words those passages to where the sin of homosexuality is removed from those scriptures. Please compare those passages with other versions and you’ll see the difference. And that is why it has earned the nickname among some because a homosexual now has a new testament version he can read that does NOT condemn homosexuality. Hope that helps.

    • Jim Walker

      Homosex is also perverse sex, together with all other forms of filthy fornication.
      Many in the LGBT community already use the bible to do selective reading and blot out things that don’t fit their lifestyle anyway. It is ridiculous to even say “Jesus never say homosexuality is sinful” when there are so many verses in the NT as you have name them, telling us it is.

      • Pigdowndog

        “Many in the LGBT community already use the bible to do selective reading and blot out things that don’t fit their lifestyle anyway. ”
        Irony at its finest!

        • Jim Walker

          Please explain your remark.

          • Pigdowndog

            When was the last time you stoned a naughty child to death as your god commands or do you employ a little “selective reading” where that “law” is concerned?

          • Shaquille Harvey

            One it is not based on “selective reading”. It is understanding basic Christian theology and exegesis.
            Ancient Israel, which much of that and those who were under the Old Testament applied to, was a theocracy. Which meant things that were stated as the law in the Old Testament or the TaNaKh was the law in the nation of Israel, which the Ancient isrealites had to live by as they were under a Covenantal relationship. I.e. The ceremonial , moral and social laws.

            However there are certain things that were done under ancient Israel or certain things by the Old Testament that are not or don’t apply to the Christians under the New Testament or new covenant.

          • Pigdowndog

            Matthew 5:17

          • Shaquille Harvey

            Perhaps this;
            http://www(dot)tektonics(dot)org/lp/lawrole(dot)php

            (Please remove dot with real and brackets as well. )

          • Pigdowndog

            Of course a religious website is totally unbiased isn’t it!!!
            Try researching a proper scientific source, you’ll get a truthful answer.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            What !?!
            Your statement “Matthew 5:17” was alluded to a theological stance
            , hence the reason why I gave a website that delved into theology and biblical hermeneutics for an explanation. Something of this notion would not be readily explained by a scientific source as it would be outside of the basic scientific methodology.

          • Pigdowndog

            “Something of this notion would not be readily explained by a scientific source as it would be outside of the basic scientific methodology.”
            No it’s not.
            NorthShore Research Institute did research on the so called “gay gene” and Simon LeVay, Neuroscientist said “This study knocks another nail into the coffin of the ‘chosen lifestyle’ theory of homosexuality,”
            Did you choose your sexuality?

          • Shaquille Harvey

            What on earth are you on about ?

          • Pigdowndog

            Is the English language a stranger to you?
            You said it can’t be explained by the scientific method.
            It can and it has.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            What has this got to do with Matthew 5:17 or the Old Testament law.

          • Pigdowndog

            Nothing.
            That bible quote was in answer to a previous comment you made.
            Keep up!

          • Shaquille Harvey

            Keep up with what ?

          • Shaquille Harvey

            Okay how relating to what’s been said here ?

          • Pigdowndog

            You posted “However there are certain things that were done under ancient Israel or certain things by the Old Testament that are not or don’t apply to the Christians under the New Testament or new covenant.”
            I replied “Matthew 5:17”
            Spot the connection.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            Did you even read the site I gave ?

          • Pigdowndog

            Yes and it was religious nonsense.

          • Jim Walker

            Save your words in prayer instead.

          • Jason Baker

            One has to read the whole Bible to understand it, as well as be indwelt by the Spirit.
            1 Corinthians 2:14

          • Pigdowndog

            I have, twice. I concluded it was nonsense.
            By the way. bible quotations have no authority whatsoever.

          • Jason Baker

            I am sorry to hear that.

          • Pigdowndog

            Don’t be sorry.
            I’m perfectly happy about it.
            I’m glad that there isn’t a celestial dictator watching my every move.
            Creepy!!!!

          • Shaquille Harvey

            Except when you feel the need to constantly throw them out at others yet you have idea what they even truly about or why Christians don’t need to follow them

          • Pigdowndog

            I throw them back to show the hypocrisy of theists who claim to live by the bible.
            They obviously don’t, and you don’t either.
            Seek out and read my comment to Gary with examples of “laws” you all ignore.
            You all seem to like the ones that discriminate against gay people although it baffles me why.
            What difference to anyone’s life does it make when two consenting adults display their love for each other?
            I’m pretty sure other than your strange beliefs you’re a perfectly nice person.
            Why the need to make gay people’s life more difficult?

            “Christians don’t need to follow them”

            I thought the bible was the inerrant word of god?
            Why don’t you have to follow them?

          • Shaquille Harvey

            Please note for why Christians don’t need to follow or practice many of these, the list you gave to Gary,
            I gave a site for that ;

            http://www(dot)tektonics(dot)org/lp/lawrole(dot)php

            (Please remove dot with real and brackets as well. )

            as for 1 Corinthians 14

            https://m(dot)youtube(dot)com/watch?v=l3lILWN_nuc

          • Pigdowndog

            Once again you’ve posted a link to that charlatan’s website.
            A casual search for him on Google shows him to be most untrustworthy.

            http://tinyurl(dot)com/ya8obyct

            http://tinyurl(dot)com/y9umwj87

            http://tinyurl(dot)com/yb5w9s55

            Matthew 5:17 still stands or was Jesus wrong?

          • Shaquille Harvey

            A google search to lead to actual credible research will show christ mythers are not taken seriously in the field of ancient antiquity or any form of credible historians. Notice how Bart Ehrman, an agnostic historian, states both Jesus exists and that he was crucified. Note Bart Ehrman though may not fully agree with him on everything is a credible historian.

          • Pigdowndog

            You’re quite right, some scholars don’t take it seriously but conversely there are serious historians that do question the existence of Jesus, Richard Carrier for example, another credible historian.
            As there are no contemporaneous records of him then I’ll stay with the “myth” side of the argument until evidence is found.
            I will then accept it and proffer an apology but for now I have doubt.
            You do realise Shaquille we are in danger of finding common ground!
            I think you’d better reply with something I can get my teeth into.
            Stay safe.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            I must state this, Richard Carrier is no credible historian he is not treated or seen as such by the historical department or by high ranking scholars. But here is a statement by one;

            “Jesus’ death as a consequence by crucifixion is indisputable.”
            -Gerd Lüdemann, atheist historian.

            My friend whom I discussed with you and has dealings with some of these scholars, wanted me to send this to you and, has this to say;

            “Tell him that the Plaintiff lost his lawsuit and now owes me $21,000 in attorney fees. Other than that, if he thinks a bunch of hacks are a good source, he’s beyond help. My resume’ speaks otherwise of me:

            http://www(dot)tektonics(dot)org/gk/jpholding(dot)php

            Carrier isn’t credible, he can’t even get a job. And he’s reamed constantly by historians with jobs. Examples:

            https://letterstonature(dot)wordpress(dot)com/2016/02/05/final-word-on-richard-carrier/

            http://bedejournal(dot)blogspot(dot)com/2011/02/richard-carrier-and-domesday-watermills(dot)html

            (Please replace dot with real dot and remove brackets)
            For further comment do state
            Go safe
            Shaquille

          • Pigdowndog

            “I must state this, Richard Carrier is no credible historian”
            “Richard Carrier B.A. (History), M.A. (Ancient history), M.Phil. (Ancient history), Ph.D. (Ancient history)
            University of California, Berkeley, Columbia University.”
            I think his credibility is beyond doubt.

            “Gerd Lüdemann”
            “Following a series of historically critical publications culminating in the publication of his book Der große Betrug: Und was Jesus wirklich sagte und tat (The Great Deception: And What Jesus Really Said and Did) in 1999, in which he argued that only about five per cent of the sayings attributed to Jesus are genuine and the historical evidence does not support the claims of traditional Christianity, the Confederation of Protestant Churches in Lower Saxony called for his dismissal from the Chair of New Testament Studies. Lüdemann stated that his studies convinced him that his previous Christian faith, based as it was on Biblical Studies, had become impossible: ‘the person of Jesus himself becomes insufficient as a foundation of faith once most of the New Testament statements about him have proved to be later interpretations by the community”

            “My friend”
            Am I right in thinking that your “friend” is Robert Turkel (aka “James Patrick Holding”)?
            If so you are being fooled Shaquille. He is a fraud who relies on abuse, as his remarks toward me testify.

            “Tell him that the Plaintiff lost his lawsuit”
            Who is the plaintiff and what was the lawsuit about?

            “Carrier isn’t credible, he can’t even get a job. And he’s reamed constantly by historians with jobs. ”
            That’s absolute nonsense. His “job” is as an author, just like J.K.Rowling also a public speaker so your “friend” is once more ill informed.

            Whoever your “friend” is he doesn’t appear to be very knowledgeable and just a tad rude.
            Thankfully you’re not.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            I sent your reply and here is my friends response;

            “As I said, Carrier has no job, and he’s being laughed at by other historians. That sure sounds credible.

            Saying his “job” is an author is a prop. He’s doing the rubber chicken circuit because he has no choice.

            Ludemann is not a Jesus myther.

            I’ll reveal more about the lawsuit soon. It will be very public. Tell him to be on the lookout if he really cares. Maybe he can help the Plaintiff pay off his huge debt to me.”

            P.s
            If you really wish to take him on this issue or anything else that I’m sure he will be much happy to oblige. Then perhaps state it with him;

            jphold@att(dot)net

            (Please replace dot with real dot and remove brackets)

          • Pigdowndog

            “As I said, Carrier has no job”

            So by that logic Frederick Forsythe, J.K.Rowling, John Le Carre, Margaret Attwood, Charles Dickens, Thomas Hardy, Stephen King, Bill Bryson, Emily Bronte, Jane Austen and many many more were all or are “unemployed” are they?

            “Saying his “job” is an author is a prop. He’s doing the rubber chicken circuit because he has no choice. “
            That’s nonsense. He’s an historian, much the same as Simon Schama, Robin Lane Fox, Eammon Duffy, David Starkey, Susan Doran etc. That’s how they make their living.
            Do you honestly think that these people go out digging roads or supplement their earnings by being a plumber or carpenter?
            Of course it’s a proper job. Your friend’s logic seems to be a little skewed.
            By the way I see I was right in my assumption that it’s Robert Turkel a.k.a James Patrick Holding.
            He is a busted flush I’m afraid Shaquille. He’s a charlatan leading you up the garden path.
            I’m not asking you to change your beliefs but I advise you to get your information from a reliable source not from a deceiver.

            “I’ll reveal more about the lawsuit soon. “
            Of course he will!

          • Shaquille Harvey

            Well here is his reply to you;

            “Um. Fox had a prior career as an academic before going to writing. Carrier doesn’t. The other authors didn’t get a degree and fail to get a job in that field. But hey, if he wants to compare Carrier to people who write fiction, fine with me.

            What’s your friend got a degree in? Making excuses? Anyone who props for that Turkel stuff shows their ignorance, that has not been my name since 2007.”

            As I said before if you wish to take it up further with him then reply to him here;

            jphold@att(dot)net

            (Please replace dot with real dot and remove brackets)

          • Pigdowndog

            “had a prior career as an academic before going to writing.”
            What on Earth has that got to do with anything?
            So what!
            Carrier makes his living as a writer, what part of that doesn’t your “friend” understand?

            “What’s your friend got a degree in? Making excuses?”
            The irony in that statement is monumental.

            “Anyone who props for that Turkel stuff shows their ignorance, that has not been my name since 2007.””
            Why did he feel the need to change his name?
            What’s he got to hide?

            Also why are you relying on him and not your own beliefs Shaquille?

          • Shaquille Harvey

            “”had a prior career as an academic before going to writing.”
            What on Earth has that got to do with anything?
            So what!”
            His differenciating that of the careers between him and Carrier.
            But anyway here is his reply to you;
            “Sounds like he’s babbling at this point. I already pointed out “so what”. Carrier’s on the rubber chicken circuit because he’s a failure as an academic.

            Tell do do bird that JPH was my name at birth.”

            As for what JP has degrees in perhaps look at his site for details on him. Also as I have stated before if you wish ask further information on JP or for anything else for that matter why don’t you email him, he has emailed back those who have come from the opposite spectrum from him.
            Also if you wish to debate, the email is in my prior reply.

            Lastly what beliefs of myself must rely on ?

          • Pigdowndog

            Shaquille.
            I know that you are a young lad but just ask yourself what sort of “academic” speaks like your “friend” does?
            No genuine academic would call someone a “do do bird”, “panhandler” or any derogatory name.
            they’re more sophisticated than that.
            As for his qualifications he isn’t in the same league as Richard Carrier.
            MASTERS IN LIBRARY SCIENCE: He was a prison librarian.
            BACHELORS IN ENGLISH: If indeed he has such a qualification why does he use such base terms?
            Certified Apologetics Instructor: Hardly a university degree.
            Interfaith Witness Instructor : Ditto.

            I have no intention with engaging with this character as he is dishonest.
            A simple Google search will reveal that.
            He will claim that as a victory for him but that’s his modus operandi.
            He is a bully boy and I advise you to drop him.
            He is a Creationist and that’s about as uneducated as you can get.

            “Lastly what beliefs of myself must rely on ?”
            Not absolutely sure what you mean by that but if you have a faith then if that faith is important to you then fine but don’t just believe what you’re told.
            Research and question everything.
            Science will give you honest answers unlike religion.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            Here is JP’s reply to that statement;
            “For someone with no plans to engage he sure does engage a lot. Tell him to man up and meet me at TheologyWeb, otherwise I’ll assume he’s too much of a coward to do so. He needs to stop wasting your time and mine. Cut him off after this.”

            (Please note JP wishes to take this further with him on the site in his above statement. )

          • Pigdowndog

            Shaquille. Read my last comment.
            I predicted his response.
            I will not legitimise him by engaging with him as he’s totally dishonest and a cyber bully.
            You don’t seem to want to research him so I can’t help you.
            I am now stopping this conversation as I don’t want to be responsible for you getting more entrapped by this awful man.
            I wish you all the best but please be careful. The internet is full of nasty people.
            Please don’t reply to this as I will not respond.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            My response:
            After reading your latest response I can clearly state the intellectual integrity cannot be found in this discussion. After charging him by stating him as a bad man even after I gave you his email address multiple times even with JP trying to persist you to come onto the TheologyWeb forum to have a discussion if not a minor debate I can clearly state the dishonesty is on your side not his.
            I have known already about this “Robert Turkell” business, JP already talked about this a long while ago and as he stated J. P. Holding is his real birth name. Even many of his colleagues have known about this and have not taken issue about it.

            As for Carrier issue:
            You stated in one of your comments;
            “So by that logic Frederick Forsythe, J.K.Rowling, John Le Carre, Margaret Attwood, Charles Dickens, Thomas Hardy, Stephen King, Bill Bryson, Emily Bronte, Jane Austen and many many more were all or are “unemployed” are they?”

            What you fail to identify is the fact these authors are delved into fictional writings not in works, books or writings in ancient antiquity as is the case of supposedly Richard Carrier. As JP and myself have already stated Carrier is not taken seriously as a credible historian. He is not taken seriously by other credible historians as is/was the case with Bart Ehrman. Bart, whom is an agnostic, is a credible historian and even he confronted Carrier not that long ago about the Christ myth issue which he does not take seriously.

          • Pigdowndog

            I’ve replied to your comment twice now but both times it has “disappeared”.
            Not sure why.

          • Jim Walker

            I think you need to read the Bible more.

          • Pigdowndog

            There’s that wonderful irony again!
            Deuteronomy 21:18-21

          • Jim Walker

            You can read the bible a million times and if you did not receive Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you will never understand it.
            Those were the laws of the land in the OT, they are under the Law.
            But with Christ crucifixion, we are all now under Grace.

          • Pigdowndog

            Matthew 5:17

          • Jim Walker

            Good that you quoted this verse.
            Yes Jesus came to fulfill the Law by dying on the cross for our sins once and for all so that God’s grace can be received by all who surrender their lives to Him, and we have the Gift of the spirit : Love, Joy, Peace, Patience Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness and Self-control. When we have these gifts of the spirit, we are no longer under Law but under Grace.
            I challenge you to go read up more and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior then can your eyes be opened to see what everyone here is telling you.

          • Pigdowndog

            By your logic you agree that naughty children should be stoned to death!
            You sound as barbarous as your biblical god.

            “I challenge you to go read up more and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior”
            I have done and found it a load of old superstitious nonsense.
            I very much doubt there was a Jesus let alone one who was crucified.
            I’ll stick with the real world thanks.
            Leave the fantasy world to your god and his mate Harry Potter.

          • Jim Walker

            I wish you well in whatever you believe. Hope you find what you are searching for.

          • Pigdowndog

            I have Jim.
            I’ve found the truth.
            Religion, gods and the supernatural are, as we say in good old England, “a load of old bollocks”

          • Jim Walker

            Everything that is happening now has be foretold by the Bible. No other book is able to do this.
            But you are too blinded by this real world and the finite things it offer.
            The reason why you can’t find the wisdom in the Bible is because you read it like Harry Potter.
            This is my last post with you and I pray that you will be able to find the way, the truth and the life in Christ Jesus. Amen.

          • Pigdowndog

            Tell me one event that’s happening now that is foretold in the bible.
            I’m afraid the only way to read that tome is like a Harry Potter book only it’s far more violent and the protagonist is a vile and sadistic monster.

          • SophieA

            And this lack of belief in God is the very reason England and Europe is becoming more Muslim every day. Who will come save the LGBT community when the Muslims start daily executions of these people? To whom will you plead for protection?

          • Pigdowndog

            “And this lack of belief in God is the very reason England and Europe is becoming more Muslim every day”
            Being a theist you swallow all the nonsense going. No it’s not, I live here, I know.

            “Who will come save the LGBT community when the Muslims start daily executions of these people? To whom will you plead for protection?”
            The ravings of the uneducated.

          • SophieA

            Not every commentor here intends jabs of insult towards you. Some truly care for the well being of our friends in Europe and England. You have no idea of my understanding and educational level. I did not devolve into ravings either. Neither shall I now do so. Don’t you think it a good thing to have civil discourse without ad hominem attacks? Perhaps the obstacle to understanding lies within you too?

          • Pigdowndog

            “I did not devolve into ravings either.”
            May I suggest you read your previous comment about England and Europe?
            Not sure where you live but your description bears no resemblance whatsoever to the Britain and Europe I’ve experienced and live in.
            Don’t believe the sensational nonsense you read in newspapers about us being swamped by Muslims.
            it simply isn’t true.
            So yes, the ravings of the uneducated.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            “I very much doubt there was a Jesus let alone one who was crucified.”
            That’s why no credible historian would take that statement seriously.

          • Pigdowndog

            “That’s why no credible historian would take that statement seriously.”
            Really?
            I think you’d better look a little more deeply.
            Not one scrap of evidence for him only hearsay.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            Try extra biblical sources like
            Tacitus,
            Josephus,
            Talmud
            Etc.

            Also
            “One of the most certain facts of history is that Jesus was crucified on orders of the Roman prefect of Judea, Pontius Pilate. ”

            Bart Ehrman, agnostic historian.

          • Jim Walker

            He is not here to debate, he is here to ridicule.

          • Pigdowndog

            All of those examples are not contemporaneous reports of a divine person called Jesus.
            Josephus’ contribution has been shown up as an interpolation so can be completely discarded.
            Not one Roman
            All documents about Jesus came well after the life of the alleged Jesus from either: unknown authors, people who had never met an earthly Jesus, or from fraudulent, mythical or allegorical writings.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            The examples I gave are not trying to prove Jesus’s divinity, they’re trying to establish Jesus’s existence as a person in history and his death by means of crucifixion.
            Also after you stated this, I contacted by email someone who has further extensive knowledge on this subject as a whole, I emailed with what you stated here, here is his reply;

            “1) They don’t have to be “contemporaneous” to be authoritative. That’s a made up rule. Those authors wrote about a lot of events before their time.

            2) Josephus has two references. One is never regarded as an interpolation. The other is most frequently seen as only a partial interpolation.

            Your friend there is a walking sound bite.”

          • Pigdowndog

            Your friend sounds a charming person!
            What authority does he have to call me a “walking soundbite”?
            Has he irrefutable evidence for his claims that he can level that accusation at me?

            “1) They don’t have to be “contemporaneous” to be authoritative. That’s a made up rule. Those authors wrote about a lot of events before their time.!”
            The problem with that statement is that all mentions of this Jesus bloke were written long after the supposed events and were from hearsay accounts. See the problem there?
            Ever heard of the children’s game “Chinese Whispers”?
            As to being a “made up rule”, that’s preposterous.
            Either it’s hard evidence or it’s not.
            Courts of law do not generally allow hearsay as testimony, and nor does honest modern scholarship. Hearsay does not provide good evidence, and therefore, we should dismiss it.
            Wouldn’t want your friend on a jury if I was on trial!

            “2) Josephus has two references. One is never regarded as an interpolation. The other is most frequently seen as only a partial interpolation.”
            Josephus allegedly wrote about Jesus nearly a hundred years after Jesus is said to have walked this Earth.
            That’s also slightly problematical don’t you think?

          • Shaquille Harvey

            Well here is his reply;

            “1) My authority is that I’m a recognized research professional whose work has been cited by best-selling as well as academic books. Who is he? A panhandler?

            Yes, it’s a made up rule. Like I said, those people relate many events that were not contemporaneous. No historian refuses to use them on that account. He’s misusing hearsay: http://www(dot)tektonics(dot)org/gk/hearsay(dot)php

            2) It’s not a problem in scholarly lit. Who is he? A nobody.”

            (Please replace word dot with real dot and remove brackets)

        • Shaquille Harvey

          Yes explain?!

    • Bryan

      As others have said, people have been using the Bible to justify whatever they want since long before the Message was written.
      Dr. Brown did not endorse or condemn the usage of the Message as a tool or supplement to better understanding scripture. It’s a way to see scripture as you might if you could understand Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, and or Latin without having to be an expert in Biblical languages. The Message is certainly not without it’s flaws as well. There are passages that Dr. Brown points out as ambiguous when the original is clear as day. However, unlike sacred scripture, you can throw out the parts that don’t align with scripture while keeping the rest. That’s because the Message is not the Bible. It’s a paraphrase of the Bible not a translation of the Bible. Where it’s helpful, it’s helpful. Where it’s wrong, it’s wrong.
      Then again, if you just don’t like the Message, there’s no reason that you need to read it either. Personally, I like reading the psalms from the Message. I read the ESV or NIV first, then the Message. When I think about putting a Psalm to music, the Message can make it a little easier from time to time.

  • RickTexan

    You are absolutely on target, Dr. Brown, about both the seriousness of the issue and the abandonment of God’s direction by many, many of our pastors and church leaders. And you are also on target about those people who are on God’s side but have become so concerned about this issue that we (I) have said and done things in truthful but very unloving ways. Harsh rhetoric, even if it is meant to be constructive, has damaged our impact on those who need to hear the truth. Thank you for correctly admonishing/encouraging us (me) to speak the truth in love.

  • Ron Boyson

    I believe that Homosexuality along with the breakdown of family structure, and the massive and systematic killing of the unborn, are simply symptoms of a much more sinister problem.

    • Dena

      Our nation desperately needs Revival. I hope and pray it happens.

  • Laura Ann Register

    If you attend a church that teaches the truth about God and His Real Love for every human being then you are at the right one, but lately there have been these New Wave kind of churches that are popping up or just plain old churches that don’t teach about God’s Love. My church does. They make sure that we know the Real Love of God. God loves everyone, it’s the sin that He hates. Homosexuality is a sin and God does not approve of it, look at what he did to Sodom and Gomorah and then the Flood. Those are Two Great Big Examples of how God feels about it. It doesn’t get any plainer than that!

    • A Cater

      The sin of sodomy is a sign of the Endtime as spoken of by our Lord, see Luke 17: 28 – 30

  • Jan Favre

    Gender ideology is unscientific. That’s a tool to destroy the West and an open door for Sharia as reaction.

  • JM

    The Bible is clear that homosexuality is an offense to God so that means that would not make a person homosexual but when I tell those who live this lifestyle that. they refuse to listen and just keep going on about how God made them that way but that is not true and these people are living a lie, I want to wake these people up to the truth but they just won’t listen. no matter what I do or say. I don’t want them to go tell hell and that is why I tell them that. because this lifestyle will send them there and if die in it but these people will not listen to me at all.

    • Pigdowndog

      “God did not make people that way. ”
      Perfectly true.
      They’re homosexual because that’s their natural sexual orientation.
      They won’t be going to “Hell” as “Hell”, much the same as “Heaven”, only exists in the minds of the deluded.
      May I suggest you keep your nose out of consenting adult’s private lives?
      Thank you.

      • Jim Walker

        Firstly there is no such thing as “their natural sexual orientation”.
        May I also suggest you and your LGBT community keep your lifestyle private and not promote them to kids?

        • Some kids will be Gay whether or not anything was “promoted” to them. In fact, sexual orientation is not something you can “promote” to begin with. If you want to promote the notion that the only option for Gay people is to be lonely and miserable for the rest of their lives, without any hope for love and commitment, have at it. But don’t call it “loving.”

        • eddiestardust

          I agree!

        • Pigdowndog

          “Firstly there is no such thing as “their natural sexual orientation”.”
          If a person is gay then it’s their natural sexual orientation.
          Simple!
          Much the same as a straight person’s “sexual orientation” is finding the opposite sex attractive.
          Simple!
          Could please point me to where the LGBT community, whatever that might mean, “promote” their lifestyle to children?

          • Dean Bruckner

            You are willfully blind and you suppress the truth knowingly, but for the other readers I will give one example of thousands: do an internet search for “Washington State Will Now Teach Small Children Transgenderism.”

            You lie.

          • Pigdowndog

            I’m afraid you’re the liar in this exchange.
            They are teaching children “ABOUT” transgenderism which is a good thing.
            Since when is education a bad thing?

          • Jim Walker

            When you educate lies, lies and more lies.

          • Pigdowndog

            The lies come mostly from the pulpit.
            I’ll put my trust in the educational system thanks.

          • Dean Bruckner

            “Educating” kindergartners about the LBGT agenda is promoting a lifestyle. Parents should be the ones teaching children about sex, not some dysfunctional activist who is grooming children for future participation in sex. You don’t have any children, but how would you like it if ministers gained class time to teach them about God and sin? Would that education be a bad thing?

            You still lie, and all liars are fryers:

            “The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” – God, in Revelation 21:7-8

            Repent of your sins while there is still time! Don’t spend an eternity of torment in hell!

          • Pigdowndog

            “”Educating” kindergartners about the LBGT agenda is promoting a lifestyle.”
            So educating you about Amazonian rain forest dwellers is promoting their life style is it?
            Really!!!

            “Parents should be the ones teaching children about sex”
            Agree, parents should, but not all parents are competent enough or have the real facts at their fingertips so let the experts help.

            “not some dysfunctional activist who is grooming children for future participation in sex.”
            That’s just raving lunacy.

            ” You don’t have any children”
            That’s a mighty big assumption!
            I have three as a matter of fact.
            Typical bigot. You assumed I’m gay didn’t you?
            Well I’m not, never have been and never will be but other peoples sexuality is none of my business and none of yours.

            ” how would you like it if ministers gained class time to teach them about God and sin? ”
            I’d class that as child abuse.

            “Would that education be a bad thing?”
            Yes as I prefer my children to know truth not superstitious nonsense.

            “You still lie, and all liars are fryers:”
            I just love the ol’ “burn in Hell” threat.
            Hell doesn’t exist.

            “Revelation 21:7-8”
            Bible quotes are irrelevant.

            “Repent of your sins while there is still time! Don’t spend an eternity of torment in hell!”
            Sin is a religious construct and much like Heaven and Hell, doesn’t exist.

          • Dean Bruckner

            You are spouting foolish and deadly nonsense.

            Ironically, you have adopted the same dysfunctional and deadly world view of the pre-1950s Waodani, an Amazon rain forest tribe. Radical egalitarianism and radical autonomy made those people behave like savages for millenia. Only the light of the gospel of Jesus Christ had the power to save them.

            Watch The End of the Spear to see genuine love and self-sacrifice by Jim Elliott and the other missionaries, which is utterly unlike the massively selfish and arrogant attitude that you’ve wrapped around you.

            A trillion years from now, unless you repent, you will be remembering this conversation and others like it amid torment, and you will be wondering, “Why, oh why, did I not listen, humble myself, and repent?!”

          • Pigdowndog

            “You are spouting foolish and deadly nonsense.”
            I’ll give you god-botherers one thing. You’re great at irony.

            Theist have been “spouting foolish and deadly nonsense” for eons.

            “Radical egalitarianism and radical autonomy made those people behave like savages for millenia.”
            No. It was interfering bible bashers who filled their heads with superstitious nonsense.
            They were not behaving “like savages”. They were behaving perfectly normal for their society until the “godly” poked their noses in.

            “A trillion years from now, unless you repent, you will be remembering this conversation and others like it amid torment,”
            Always the threat of burning in Hell!!!
            I tell what. I challenge your god to strike me down dead this very instant……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
            Oh look!
            I’m still typing!
            Perhaps your magic man isn’t that powerful or more likely is non existent.

          • Dean Bruckner

            Downvoted, flagged and blocked for blasphemy. Really.

          • Pigdowndog

            Oh Dear! Doubt I’ll sleep tonight.
            Blasphemy doesn’t exist either mate.

          • Dean Bruckner

            You wrote, “I’d class that as child abuse.”

            Hypocrite!

          • Pigdowndog

            There’s none so hypocritical as the faithful.

          • Jim Walker

            LGBT community promote themselves as normal. They are not normal. They have mental issues, the same with people who actually think they are dogs, cats, sheep.
            Will you allow kids to be read to by people who have sex with animals ? or GSA ?
            What is so different with them compared to LGBT ? Nothing, because they truly believed they are born that way too. Who are you to judge them ? you…you bigot…
            Oh you don’t agree ? Well LGBT had just paved the way and these people are using the same methods to gain social acceptance and soon laws will be changed to allow a Father marry his daughter, a man to marry his porcupine,.. in a church.

          • Pigdowndog

            “LGBT community promote themselves as normal. They are not normal.”
            If they’re gay it’s perfectly normal for them.

            “They have mental issues, ”
            Says someone who believes there’s a magic sky fairy.

            “Will you allow kids to be read to by people who have sex with animals ? or GSA ? or a pedophile ?
            What is so different with them compared to LGBT ?”
            One word. Consent.

            ” laws will be changed to allow a father marry his daughter, a man to marry his porcupine”
            Idiotic statement.

            “a baker will be forced to bake them a wedding cake and may get sued if they don’t.”
            Good!

            “Pandora’s box of sin,”
            Sin is a religious construct that has no meaning in the real world.

          • Jim Walker

            Your comment ” magic sky fairy” tells all here what you are.
            Thank you and have a good day.

          • Pigdowndog

            You’re correct in your summation and am very proud of the fact.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            “”a baker will be forced to bake them a wedding cake and may get sued if they don’t.”
            Good!”
            So your for forced labour then and people working against thier will !?

          • Pigdowndog

            If you’re running a business that deals with the public you don’t get to force your hateful homophobic bigotry on to them.
            Confine your spite and medieval thinking to your own home.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            1. Yes, bussiness deal with customers, but businesses and in particular private businesses such as these who deal with the free market system. They also have, within the system, rights of the bussiness and of the employer and employee of which as a whole can dealings with who ever they want and have within the moral right to refuse any service especially when it comes to moral, conscious and goes against thier worldview.
            2. No-one is forcing anything on to anyone especially considering many of theses said businesses had done bussiness with homosexuals before what stopped was the fact they were now having to provide a service for a gay wedding ceremony which would have gone against thier worldview stand.
            3. Also trying to throwing around chronologically snobbery and ad hominem attacks does not change this.

          • Pigdowndog

            I’m assuming you’re American so that may be the case over there but here in Britain we are a little more enlightened and LGBT has the weight of the law behind them due to bigots.

            “Also trying to throwing around chronologically snobbery and ad hominem attacks does not change this.”
            If the cap fits, wear it.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            “I’m assuming you’re American so that may be the case over there but here in Britain we are a little more enlightened and LGBT has the weight of the law behind them due to bigots”
            Actually I live in the U.K.
            More enlightened about what ?
            London decided to have LGBT day recently instead of focusing on important issues like the economy etc.
            1st amendment and freedom of religion.

          • Pigdowndog

            “Actually I live in the U.K. ”
            Oh dear! That’s depressing. Not you personally but your beliefs.

            “More enlightened about what ?”
            LGBT matters.

            “London decided to have LGBT day recently instead of focusing on important issues like the economy etc.”
            Sod all to do with the economy.

            “Please note that in America they have and proctect things like
            1st amendment and freedom of
            religion that’s in their constitution.”
            And so do we protect peoples freedoms as long as they don’t impinge on other’s freedoms.

            “Also what “cap fits” ?”
            Really? I thought you said you’re in the UK?

            “if the cap fits, wear it.
            1.
            BRITISH
            used as a way of suggesting that someone should accept a generalised remark or criticism as applying to themselves.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            “Oh dear! That’s depressing. Not you personally but your beliefs”
            Why you can’t stand someone who’s beliefs differ from yours!?
            Also if you are referring to Christianity then I must say this Christendom has been around for ages and has many societies especially Europe and including the uks history.

            “LGBT matters.”
            really, that’s it? We have all sorts of problems here in the U.K. and that’s all that matters ? How does focusing on LGBT matters make us better or “more enlightened” ?

            “Sod all to do with the economy.”
            That’s exactly the problem that is one of the reasons why the uks economy went the way it did.

            “And so do we protect peoples freedoms as long as they don’t impinge on other’s freedoms”
            What freedom the uk does not even have freedom of speech.

            And yes I know what the phrase “if the cap fits, wear it ” means. So what does that have to do with me ?
            Your the one throwing ad hominem attacks and claiming your brilliant because your an atheist yet you repeat the same atheistic rhetoric I have heard from the same fundamental new atheists I have Heard over and over again looking at the fact you can’t be bothered to ever learn or acknowledge Christian theology shows this .

          • Pigdowndog

            “Why you can’t stand someone who’s beliefs differ from yours!?”
            It’s not you that’s “depressing”. It’s the thought that in 2017 supposedly educated people still cling to superstitious nonsense.

            “Also if you are referring to Christianity then I must say this Christendom has been around for ages and has many societies especially Europe and including the uks history.”
            So has slavery, that doesn’t make it right.

            ” We have all sorts of problems here in the U.K. and that’s all that matters ? How does focusing on LGBT matters make us better or “more enlightened” ?”
            Of course there are a myriad of problems but this article was about homosexuality so consequently that’s what I commented on.

            “That’s exactly the problem that is one of the reasons why the uks economy went the way it did.”
            Are you saying a theocracy is the answer to our problems?

            “Your the one throwing ad hominem attacks and claiming your brilliant ”
            Can you please point to where I aimed a personal insult at you or claimed I am “brilliant”?

            “you repeat the same atheistic rhetoric I have heard from the same fundamental new atheists I have Heard over and over again ”
            As I said before, what the Hell is wrong with repeating an argument if it’s the truth?
            I’ve yet to have a decent rebuttal to my arguments.

            “you can’t be bothered to ever learn or acknowledge Christian theology ”
            That’s a silly accusation.
            Of course I acknowledge that Christian theology exists. If it didn’t I wouldn’t be here discussing it with you.
            Just because it exists though doesn’t make it true.

          • Gary

            Confine your perversion to your own home.

          • Pigdowndog

            What “perversion” is that Gary and who are you to define a perversion?

          • Gary

            The perversion of homosexuality. I didn’t define homosexuality as perversion, God did.

          • Pigdowndog

            Ah! The usual cherry picking of the bible verses that fit your prejudices.

            “God” also commands you to stone naughty children to death. Deuteronomy 21:18-21
            Forbids you to eat shellfish. Leviticus 11:9-12
            You mustn’t eat pork. Leviticus 11:7-8
            Tattoos verboten. Leviticus 19:28.
            Got any body parts missing? Deuteronomy 23:1
            Read your horoscope? (nutty as religion) Leviticus 19:31
            Repeated any gossip? Leviticus 19:16
            Oh look! Another mention of stoning kids. Exodus 21:17
            Not sure you’re old enough to get married but if you do. Mark 10:11-12
            Earned a bit of cash on a Sunday? Exodus 31:14-15
            Spoken to a woman in your church? 1 Corinthians 14:34-
            This one definitely doesn’t affect you Gary. Deuteronomy 22:20-21
            This one definitely does. 1 Corinthians 6:18
            Maybe this one because I suspect you’re a closet gay. Matthew 5:28
            Got any clothes with a hole in them? Leviticus 10:6
            I sincerely hope you don’t conform to the American stereotype! Proverbs 23:2
            This is the one that makes you wet your pants. Leviticus 18:22
            Play American football? (oxymoron). Leviticus 11:7–8
            Hope your wardrobe doesn’t contain more than one fabric. Leviticus 19:19
            Blimey mate! You;re stuffed! No hamburgers for you. Leviticus 3:17

            Can you see the idiocy of your bible?
            Don’t say you don’t cherry pick the bits you like because you most definitely do
            Hypocrite.

          • Gary

            The hypocrisy of people does not mean that the Bible is false, or irrelevant.

          • Pigdowndog

            So talking donkeys, bushes, snakes, Water walkers, turning water into wine, stopping the sun, raising the dead, making the blind see, Noah’s Ark, a wrestling god, four legged winged creatures (can you think of one?), cud chewing rabbits, dry bones gaining life and the idiocy goes on and on and on.
            I say the bible is totally false.
            I’ll agree that it’s not irrelevant as a piece of literature.
            Then again nor is “Great Expectations” by Charles Dickens, a far better read.

          • Gary

            The Bible is either true, or not, regardless of what anyone thinks about it. But, you think the universe was made by nothing, so your opinions should be viewed with that in mind.

          • Pigdowndog

            “The Bible is either true, or not, regardless of what anyone thinks about it.”
            Evidence says it’s not.

            “But, you think the universe was made by nothing, so your opinions should be viewed with that in mind.”
            Not me. Highly educated scientists.
            Do you know more than them?

          • Shaquille Harvey

            Which highly educated scientists?

          • Pigdowndog

            Lawrence Krauss, Stephen Hawking, Richard Feynman, Albert Einstein, Steven Weinberg, Alan Guth, Peter Higgs, Freeman Dyson. I could go on.
            Are you going to say, like our friend Gary, that they don’t know what they’re talking about?

          • Shaquille Harvey

            Oh great the arrogant atheist Lawrence Krauss with his misleading book.
            Stephen hawking is especially brilliant when he says things like “philosophy is dead ”
            Your point there are also others who would disagree with them.

            Also others like Albert Einstein as Brilliant as he was, was not an atheist.

          • Pigdowndog

            “Oh great the arrogant atheist Lawrence Krauss with his misleading book.”
            Not sure what his perceived, by you, arrogance has got to do with his work.
            That doesn’t influence anything. If his findings were wrong they would be shown to be wrong by his peers. That’s what “peer review” means.
            If you’ve got evidence that he’s wrong then you get it peer reviewed for publication.

            “Stephen hawking is especially brilliant when he says things like “philosophy is dead “”
            Philosophy is only someone’s opinion, not fact.

            “Also others like Albert Einstein as Brilliant as he was, was not an atheist.”
            Ah! That old chestnut.

            “The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.

            Letter to philosopher Eric Gutkind, January 3, 1954”

            “It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.” Albert Einstein.

            “During the youthful period of mankind’s spiritual evolution, human fantasy created gods in man’s own image who, by the operations of their will were supposed to determine, or at any rate influence, the phenomenal world.

            – Albert Einstein, quoted in: 2000 Years of Disbelief, James Haught.”

            “I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being.”

            “It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere…. Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man’s ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.”

            Plenty more where that came from.

          • Gary

            Since “nothing” has no intelligence, skill, ability, energy, and is absolutely incapable of making anything, then yes, I know more than them.

          • Pigdowndog

            “Since “nothing” has no intelligence, skill, ability”
            I could add a punch line to that but I’ll resist.

            “I know more than them.”
            May I advise you to stop commenting Gary, You’re embarrassing yourself.

          • Gary

            I’m embarrassing myself? You are the one who claims something is real that is not real, and claiming something is not real that is real. You are denying reality. If you do that enough, they put you in an institution.

          • Pigdowndog

            Go home Gary, you’re drunk.

          • Jason Todd

            Why are you arguing against the existence of God in this thread? Do you seriously think you’re going to change minds?

            No, you’re doing this for the benefit of one person: You. And it’s because you have your own doubts. So you think if you just come into a Christian website shouting at everyone, “THERE IS NO GOD!!” you will feel better.

            But there’s a problem: There’s still a God. And regardless of what you think, wish, hope and pray, one day you’re going to stand before Him.

            Oh, and you’re blocked.

          • Jason Todd

            Dude, what an epic fail: The OT references apply to Jews, not Christians. Except for Proverbs, which, like the NT references are either incorrect or out of context.

          • Dena

            Where is the science to back up being born gay? It’s become a popular thing to say, but doesn’t make it true.

          • Pigdowndog

            ““This study knocks another nail into the coffin of the ‘chosen lifestyle’ theory of homosexuality,” Simon LeVay, Neuroscientist and writer.
            I found it. You look for it.

          • tether

            I suggest you finish your research. This study as well as some others that made the main stream were proven bogus. Data was skewed or omitted. If the results of a study can not be duplicated then the study is not considered valid. Non of the studies have been able to be duplicated
            You look for it.
            Born Gay Hoax: Studies Debunked
            By Ryan Sorba

          • Pigdowndog

            I did and all I found was a totally biased unscientific load of religiously based codswallop.
            When did you choose to be “straight”?

          • tether

            So then please tell me if one is born that way it would be genetic. And if genetic then it would be duplicated in identical twins every time yet science has shown that this is not the case. In many cases one ends up gay and the other not.

          • Pigdowndog

            Because it’s nothing to do with genes or DNA. It’s the epigenome that lies between the genes that changes the function.
            It can affect one twin but not the other.
            Science! It works.

          • DENA: Have you ever bothered asking someone why they “chose” to be Gay?

          • Gary

            Behavior is a choice. People are not robots. You MUST choose to behave as a homosexual. And if you can choose to behave as a homosexual, you can choose not to.

          • Dena

            My cousin was a lesbian and became a Christian. Now she is straight and free from the gay lifestyle. She made a decision and choose not to be gay.

          • So she is heterosexual, then?

          • Jason Todd

            No. Not straight. Normal.

            “Straight” is the vernacular of the LGBTQW community.

          • Pigdowndog

            “Where is the science to back up being born gay?”
            Google is your friend.
            Does it require scientific evidence to assure you of your sexuality?
            If not then why apply those standards to gay people?
            They’re gay, get over it.
            It’s no-ones business but theirs.
            Why does it bother you? How does it change your life?

        • Some kids will be Gay whether or not anything was “promoted” to them. In fact, sexual orientation is not something you can “promote” to begin with. If you want to promote the notion that the only option for Gay people is to be lonely and miserable for the rest of their lives, without any hope for love and commitment, have at it. But don’t call it “loving.”

          • Jim Walker

            You need to understand that they are not born gay, there never were. Most kids experience gender confusion for a while especially during puberty period. I too had that experience.
            The correct way is for parents to help them to move pass that phase.
            It is most unfortunate that many parents are either clueless or ignorant or there were only single parent family.

          • Pigdowndog

            “It is most unfortunate that many parents are either clueless or ignorant”
            There’s that ol’ irony again!
            Once you’d got over your “gender confusion” what made you choose the straight life?

          • Jim Walker

            “Once you’d got over your “gender confusion” what made you choose the straight life?”
            My choice. Is it good enough for you ?

          • Pigdowndog

            Methinks someone is being a little economical with the truth!
            Isn’t telling lies a sin?

          • Jim Walker

            I told you the truth but you treat it a lie, and you accept lies as truth.

          • Pigdowndog

            You did lie.
            You never had any choice between a gay or straight life.
            You just went with the natural sexuality that you felt, assuming you’re heterosexual.
            There was never a moment in your life where you consciously thought “shall I be straight or gay?”
            That’s not how it works and you know it.

          • Jim Walker

            Pigdowndog – you don’t even know me and you are so sure of my condition? You know nothing about me to make this claim.

          • Pigdowndog

            I know that you’re a theist and scared of going against your holy book so that gives me a good idea of your thought patterns.
            Go on. Tell me I’m wrong, without lying as you know it is a sin to lie.
            You never had any choice in your sexuality whatever it is.

          • Dean Bruckner

            Repent! A human’s fundamental identity is as a child of God, not gay or straight or any such thing. You are wrong and God is right.

            But God still loves you, and will show you, if you let him. God never promised us that all our desires would be satisfied here on earth. But in heaven all our desires will be ordered rightly, and we will be rewarded for our faith and obedience. Falling for the lies of lust and idols will cause us loss, maybe even the loss of our souls!

            “The Lord is my chosen portion and my cup;
            you hold my lot.
            The lines have fallen for me in pleasant places;
            indeed, I have a beautiful inheritance.
            I bless the Lord who gives me counsel;
            in the night also my heart instructs me.
            I have set the Lord always before me;
            because he is at my right hand, I shall not be shaken.
            Therefore my heart is glad, and my whole being rejoices;
            my flesh also dwells secure.
            For you will not abandon my soul to Sheol,
            or let your holy one see corruption.
            You make known to me the path of life;
            in your presence there is fullness of joy;
            at your right hand are pleasures forevermore.”

            –King David, in Psalm 16:5-11

            If you seek first God’s kingdom, and his righteousness, your eternal joy and eternal pleasure in heaven will be wonderful beyond your comprehension. Don’t be satisfied with so little!

          • Jason Todd

            There’s no such thing as sexual orientation.

          • tether

            While I understand the confusion generated by all the arguments we read and hear the truth is that all of us struggle with desires of one type or another. Given the opportunity our flesh would lead us all into sin. Be it sexual or otherwise. Many heterosexuals have to battle with lust outside of marriage the same as homosexuals do. Make no mistake about it sex outside of marriage is sin. Heterosexual, homosexual, incest, all are sin. Many people struggle with the desires of the flesh. The difference is in how we respond to those desires. Jesus never promised it would be easy, He told us to take up our cross and follow Him. Does the pot say to the potter who made it, why have you made me this way?
            I have met Christians who once identified as homosexuals who are now happily married to a person of the opposite sex so I know it can happen. Jesus can heal anything.

        • Jason Todd

          If they didn’t “promote them to kids” the LGBTQW population wouldn’t grow.

    • A Cater

      You have delivered your soul, the rest leave to the Lord. Their blood is off your hands

    • Jason Baker

      Only the Holy Spirit can change someone’s heart. The only thing you are called to do is tell the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    Yes, please speak God’s truth as it is.

  • Stephen D

    I think just speak the truth. There is no point in pretending to love those you do not even like. The prophets in the Bible just spoke the truth. They weren’t expected to love the evil kings and the Baal-worshippers they denounced. When Elijah slew the false prophets of Baal I do not suppose he was feeling love towards them. Even so I think it is an error to speak the truth vindictively or with hatred towards people. Just tell it how it is.

    • Dant e

      Pray to God and meditate on the Gospels for the love that Jesus had for all of us when we were His enemies, the love a parent has for a child in rebellion.

    • Bryan

      Elijah may not have had affection for Ahab, Jezabel and the rest, but his heart did break for the rest his people.

    • Hmmm…

      The New Testament clearly states to speak the truth in love. Not just one without the other. That’s not a suggestion; it’s a charge. I understand when God, through the Holy Spirit speaking through bible writers tells us to do something, he plans to empower us to do it. Maybe it’s a time to learn to express firmness about the subject without compromise while exhibiting caring for the person. So, if we can’t do that now, maybe we need to get about developing in this grace.

    • Stephen D

      Many thanks to Dante, Bryan and Hmmm for “speaking the truth with love” to me on this issue. There is indeed a verse in Ephesians that encourages (on my understanding) church leaders (and perhaps also individual Christians) to be loving in their admonition of those in the church who need to be brought into line, so to speak. Paul’s epistles exemplify this method of church discipline. Sadly though, in real churches, I have seen it constantly abused by ignorant persons, dressed in a little brief authority. So I conclude that in order to speak thus one does need to be sure of what is truth (to quote Pilate) as well as what really is love.
      However the concept here is one of hierarchy (the more advanced person guiding the less advanced) within the church. The context is within the church. There is no suggestion that this applies to those who are outside the church.
      Furthermore, if one considers the example of Christ Himself, one sees that in fact he spoke quite harshly to some of those who opposed him, calling them “hypocrites” for example, and warning them of an eternal hellfire that awaited them. Although Jesus IS love, I cannot say the same of myself. I am a flawed human being, aspiring to “love the sinner and hate the sin”, but my emotions towards other people, haters of God, violent killers, terrorists, destroyers of churches, wreckers of lives, are imperfect. What I can do, though falling short in the matter of being as loving as Jesus, is gain a sound understanding of what the Bible teaches and make an effort to communicate this to others.

      • SurrogateReader

        Let’s face it, the love of God is a supernatural love. But we have the indwelling Holy Spirit who is love. We must surrender and ask for more of God’s love and stop trying to “make ourselves love” people. This is the love we see in action in Acts and the life of the Apostles

  • Rarely have I ever seen such a fine exposition of Ezekiel 33.

    Thank you, Michael.

  • Hmmm…

    Christians are already behind the apologist curve just for what it takes to be saved; do we ever have catching up to do to come up to this! Leaders must lead in this. It needs to be taught. We are woefully ignorant and grossly untaught in the truths and graces required to stand in this area.

  • Trisha

    Pastors and leaders need to speak out PLAINLY about the things that mattered to Jesus like greed, like keeping people away from him, like exploitation (see Pharise), about lying,. The book you saw you hold so strongly has hundreds if not thousands of passages on greed, idoltry, chasing after money, power, the misuse of power, hate, and marginalization. When and only when you have done that can you get on a bandwagon about something Jesus never said a word about!

    • BroFrank

      And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret.
      (Ephesians 5:11-12)

      Dear Sister (I assume you consider yourself a Christian) –either you are searching diligently for a cop-out, or you are woefully ignorant of that same Book you speak about. Godly prophets and preachers do not waste their breath on non-issues. Homosexuality was not an issue in Jesus’ day among the Jewish people to whom He was sent (Matt. 15:24) —because they had fought a CIVIL WAR to right that wrong, in the days when “every man did what was right in his own eyes” (see Judges 19-21:25). Ditto, for the reason there were so few sermons on the subject in the 50’s when it was assumed that everyone knew it to be wrong, and when it was illegal. You can SAY that Jesus did not mention it, but to say (honestly) that such implied His agreement with such sin is to be either blind, or dishonest (see also Romans 1:18-27 where the apostle Paul shows homosexuality to be the natural extension of atheistic/idolatrous thinking).

      Please forgive me if this reply seems too blunt to you, but the time for sugar coating this issue is over, as Dr. Brown so clearly states in his thoughtful article.

    • M Didaskalos

      Jesus actually did condemn the sin of homosexuality, as He did every other sexual sin. In Mark 7, He said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”

      The Greek word for “sexual immorality” is “porneia,” which is translated (Strong’s/Thayer’s Concordance) “illicit sexual intercourse,” every kind of sexual intercourse outside the marriage relationship between one man and one woman. Homosexuality is included. The word translated “sexual immorality” is in the plural in Greek, illustrating (as a number of lexicons describe) that “porneia” is a generic word for sex outside the bounds of natural marriage, whatever form it may take. Paul, for instance, uses “porneia” to condemn an incestuous relationship in 1 Corinthians 5:1. Jesus commended (in Matthew 19) only man-woman marriage as the ordained-by-God (in Genesis, which He quoted) relationship for the expression of human sexuality.

      Jesus also spoke directly against homosexuality through his apostles. Paul, who condemned homosexuality in Rom. 1, 1 Cor. 6, and 1 Timothy, said that he received his teaching from Jesus: “For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man’s gospel. For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.” (Galatians 1:11-12) Jude used “porneia” to refer to homosexuality when he connected the word to the behavior of Sodom and Gomorrah. “…Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire…” (Jude 7).

      • Many Sparrows

        Well said.

    • Jason Todd

      You don’t know if He did or didn’t, Trisha. But that’s not the point. The point is, He doesn’t have to. There are other clear passages that state homosexuality is a sin.

      • Pigdowndog

        I see that you “blocked” me Jason.
        Typical action of someone who is losing the argument.

  • Boris

    The only people qualified to speak about homosexuality are scientists. The only people qualified to talk about climate change are scientists. The only people qualified to talk about Cosmology are scientists. The only people qualified to talk about evolution are scientists. The only people qualified to talk about the Bible are scientists (archaeologists). Nothing anybody else says about these subjects is worth listening to. This is the arrogance that underlies creationism, the notion that a lay person can sit back and idly think about a discipline that takes years to understand much less master and disprove it with facile, simple minded arguments. The more a scientific ignoramus like Michael Brown talks about a subject he doesn’t understand the more he exposes his willful ignorance, lack of education and religious bigotry.

    • ScrewBot

      If what you said was true, no one, including “scientists”, would be able to hold an opinion about anything because science is a work-in-progress, constantly being re-evaluated. The idea that scientific knowledge is indisputable and unchangeable is nonsense. Just one example: within the field of Cosmology, there are many different competing opinions – they are even modern cosmologists who question the currently prevailing orthodoxy of the Big Bang Theory. Your problem is that you think “Science” is a bunch of immutable facts, it’s not; it’s a methodology.
      I’ll say just one more thing: Richard Dawkins is a poor scientist. He can’t state that God does not exist unless he has proven it with a scientific experiment; otherwise he is just voicing an opinion.

      • Boris

        When it comes to constructing accurate models of reality theology and philosophy do not hold a candle to science. The study of Nature is the only path to knowledge. The studies of philosophy and theology have brought us nothing but trouble. Those are the studies of nothing. Dawkins has repeated many times that he cannot prove God does not exist. You wouldn’t know that since you’ve never had the guts to read anything he’s written.You must keep your brain in captivity to your absurd religious superstitions because you know very well millions of people have read his stuff and rejected their religion because of it. You can’t risk that can you? Coward.

        • ScrewBot

          Actually I’m an atheist, but not a modern anti-Christian atheist. I believe Western Civilization is a triumph because it’s founded on Christian values. I’ve read Dawkins, Steven Jay Gould, Hawking, Sagan, Penrose, Paul Davies etc. And I stand by my previous statement.

          • Boris

            Christianity has no values other than its own preservation. Any other supposed values of Christianity existed long before the Christian superstitions did. You could not be more delusional. Wake up and smell the godless 21rst Century.

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