Another ‘Hyper-Grace’ Teacher Bites the Dust

More and more leaders are casting off the preaching of holiness in the name of grace.

By Michael Brown Published on July 19, 2017

I was sad to see the announcement but not surprised, as yet another “hyper-grace” teacher took a giant step towards apostasy. I’m not naming names here, but I’m speaking about a man who had been a pastor and respected Christian leader, but who is now claiming that Jesus would bless a same-sex “wedding.” What a gross misrepresentation of our Savior and Lord!

Plunge Toward Apostasy

I first saw some the material this pastor was putting out a few years back. I reached out to him and offered to interact and graciously challenge his position. Although he declined my offer, I had hoped that he would think twice about his message. His isolation of God’s goodness to the exclusion of other aspects of His character was dangerous. Yet it was typical of others in the hyper-grace camp.

Jesus sets us free from sin, not to sin.

Unfortunately, since then, this man went further in the wrong direction. He now downplays future judgment and claims that God’s Word does not condemn committed same-sex relationships. And so, his rapid plunge towards apostasy continues.

He’s not alone. Since Hyper-Grace was published in January 2014, I have heard from a number of leaders in that camp.

One pastor told me that he no longer identifies with the message, having seen far too many abuses. He also told me that one of the authors I cited in my book no longer preaches the gospel at all. He embraces universalism. (I predicted this would happen in Hyper-Grace, but I didn’t need to be a rocket scientist to make that prediction.)

Some hyper-grace leaders have clarified their positions, hopefully taking a step towards a more scriptural view of grace. Others have fallen into serious doctrinal errors as well as the lowering of moral standards.

Mistaking Flesh for Freedom

But why not? If Jesus did it all and there’s nothing you’re supposed to do; if no matter how you live, you cannot break fellowship with God; if your reward is the same regardless of the sin in your life, then why not go out and enjoy the world?

Let’s take this a step farther. If the commandments of Scripture are part of a legalistic system that must be cast off, and if love is the only rule we follow, then how can we say no to a loving gay couple?

You can see quickly where this kind of thinking leads. It has nothing to do with God’s Word and in reality, it misunderstands the nature of God’s love.

A few years ago, a pastor posted this on the Ministry Today website after reading my article entitled “A Compromised Gospel Produces Compromised Fruit.” “The greasy grace message is once again leading people into sin,” he wrote. “As a pastor for more than 20 years I can tell you this ‘new’ version of grace is destroying people’s lives. Many pastors are now coming out of the closet and declaring their homosexuality as being ‘okay’ and even ‘acceptable’ based on the idea of grace!”

Again, this is no surprise. We can easily see how a hyper-grace emphasis can lead to outright deception. For example, one pastor dedicated his book to the members of his congregation “who have taken the difficult journey from legalism to liberty and have become a better community of believers as a result.”

This may sound good on the surface. But the man is an openly gay pastor and his book was a defense of homosexuality, all in the name of liberty. Yes, this church cast off legalism and discovered God’s grace — or so they thought. What they really discovered was a loophole for the flesh, one that will lead to eternal destruction.

True Liberty Leads to Holiness

True liberty in the Spirit leads to holiness of heart and life, and a healthy rejection of legalism leads to an embrace of God’s law being written on our hearts. Jesus sets us free from sin, not to sin. And the blood of Jesus does not redefine sin; it highlights the ugliness of sin and provides an antidote for it.

 The blood of Jesus does not redefine sin; it highlights the ugliness of sin and provides an antidote for it.

When I met with Pastor Joseph Prince earlier this year, he shared powerful testimonies with me of people leaving sexual immorality, and he insisted that those who truly heard his message would turn away from sin, not find a license for sin. And regardless of the doctrinal differences we have, we wholeheartedly agreed on the centrality of preaching Jesus as Lord, the reality of future judgment, and the importance of holy living.

So, while we have our differences, we are pursuing the same great goal: a holy bride presented to King Jesus for the eternal glory of God. Others have cast off the preaching of holiness in the name of grace, continuing their slippery slide to destruction.

May God grant these leaders repentance before it’s too late.

Print Friendly
Comments ()
The Stream encourages comments, whether in agreement with the article or not. However, comments that violate our commenting rules or terms of use will be removed. Any commenter who repeatedly violates these rules and terms of use will be blocked from commenting. Comments on The Stream are hosted by Disqus, with logins available through Disqus, Facebook, Twitter or G+ accounts. You must log in to comment. Please flag any comments you see breaking the rules. More detail is available here.
  • Paul

    Really should name this person so people can steer clear

    • Hmmm…

      I came here to express that very thought. The Apostle Paul called them out very specifically and gave warning.

      • Jim Walker

        Pasta Prince preaches a compromised hypergrace gnospel and it will produce compromised fruit eventually.
        That is why we are to very prayerful to what we read and listen because in this day and age, there are just too many distractions. I chose my reads very carefully. I like Dr Brown’s books.
        Most of the time I read the bible instead of books because I’d prefer to read from the source.

        • Kevin Quillen

          “there are just too many distractions, false and fake messages.”
          You mean like the silly rapture theory, or 1948 being important to prophecy? Or maybe the “great parenthesis” that one “expert” said and I quote,” the gap in Daniels 70 weeks between the 69th and 70th week is there because it HAS to be there”. You mean false and fake like that? Or, maybe you mean modern “apostles”, or speaking in tongues. Lots of foolishness. Pantelism is truth, a combo of full preterism and Christian Universalism.

          • Hmmm…

            I hope you settle your issues with God’s word.

          • Kevin Quillen

            I have no “issues” with God’s word. I read and study it trying to keep myself in the first century mindset as that is who it was written to. You cannot understand it with a western 21st century mind.

          • Hmmm…

            That is not what I meant by my expression – that you had issues with God’s word. I mean settle the issues you mention above and those of life with God’s word. The Holy Spirit is the interpreter of God’s word to us here and now. Without it, it is indeed a dead letter. The Bible is timeless with the guide inside, which are companions. You are grinding along on your own without the oil of the Holy Spirit. Come alive with receiving the Lord on the inside, his spirit coming in and the Bible becomes a different book, teeming with timely and personal today relevance and application.

          • Kevin Quillen

            “You are grinding along on your own without the oil of the Holy Spirit.”
            Pretty bold assertion. I have understanding BECAUSE I rely on the Holy Spirit and not preachers, who are steeped in tradition and the teaching of their denomination or seminary. The Bible is indeed a “different” book to me, compared to most. I study with first century mindset. I hear Matt 24:34 and understand it was for the people listening to Him then and there. Most teach that this is for us, the supposed “terminal” generation. Why do you think this is the case?

          • Hmmm…

            Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

          • Jim Walker

            Correct. I’m definitely seeing more and more “new” versions of God of our Bible coming forth. When someone tells me there is a new revelation, I’m always a prayer away from God for guidance.

          • Kevin Quillen

            good advice.

          • Hmmm…

            God’s guidance tells me that Mr. Quillen’s version is false; as does God’s word.

          • Kevin Quillen

            Yes He is. Have I implied He isn’t?

          • Jim Walker

            You rely on a website that you ask everyone to go. I read the Bible and only very very few books written by men because I rely fully from the Holy Spirit and not some authors’ insights.
            I’ll stay faraway from Pasta prince, esp his destined to “Rain”.

          • Hmmm…

            Why did God set in the five-fold ministry? Paul taught to discern among them and some of how to do that. Where are the general avoid scriptures as pertains to preachers and the rest of the ministry? Where are the lone wolf scriptures?

          • Kevin Quillen

            don’t you see the urgency in the epistles? Why? Paul and the other Apostles knew what was coming. The end of the age. The Day of the Lord. Judgment and a covanental shift. It was a new thing to the Gentiles. A whole new “religion”. There was not much time. That is why there were signs and wonders. To confirm the Word. Jer 31: 31 through 34 tells me that in the new cov I do not need preachers to teach me. My teacher is the Holy Spirit and the “law written on my heart”. Going to church is fine if you like. Fellowshipping is fine and encouraging each other is great but…….your teacher is the Holy Spirit. How can there be literally thousands of Christian denominations? Who is correct? Baptist, Pentecostal, Lutheran, ect.? There is no command to go to church, WE ARE THE CHURCH!

          • Hmmm…

            He says not to neglect the assembling of yourselves, as is the manner of some. He said, WHEN you come together … Jesus is the Word; he is the same yesterday, today and forever. He set up the church. Not a point of who is correct. They are all parts which make up a whole, different parts of the Body of Christ with their differing emphases. He cautioned for us not to cling to our part and say I have no need of you. Every joint supplies. You cannot be a supply or be supplied by others if you are not hooked up with them.

          • Kevin Quillen

            you are referencing Heb 10:25. Read all of it and tell me, what is meant by “as you see the day approaching”. That “day” has already past. It was the “end of the age”, the destruction of the Temple and the divorce of the nation of Israel form God. That is why there is such urgency in 1 Cor 7:29, and 31. And 1 John 2:17,and 18. And many more places. It was the Day of the Lord spoken of throughout the old testament. Jesus came back and judged the Jews. See Matt 26:64. That is why Caiaphas the high called Jesus’s statement blasphemy. Jer 31:31-34. I do not need a teacher/pastor/preacher. I have the best. Assemble to encourage each other, serve the community or for all sorts of reasons. But……it is not a command or requirement. For this to be a command now would be legalism.

          • Hmmm…

            If it’s all over and done with, why are we still here? Why didn’t it wrap up like it says it will? Are we just leftovers shuffling around for some unknown reason?

          • Kevin Quillen

            it did wrap just like Jesus said it would. You just do not see it. I am done. Research Preterism and learn.

          • Hmmm…

            Strong pass on that — I’ll stick with God’s word.

          • davidrev17

            Kevin, if the Holy Spirit of Truth himself was actually “YOUR TEACHER,” as you claim, then surely He’d not compel you to “twist and distort,” or otherwise malign His Holy Word by avoiding, ignoring, thus removing whole chunks of Scripture, in order to manipulate its content to make it appear like it teaches what YOU desire it to say!

            Another classic example of this type of exegetical gymnastics is clearly in view above, by your “deceitfully scheming” in referencing JUST Jeremiah 31:31-34; thereby robbing this critically relevant New Covenant teaching of its fuller national/political “Israel-centered” context, of which PLAINLY continues through verse 40.

            So I’ll separate vv. 31-34, from 35-40 below – but pay strict attention to the “ongoing, perpetual, continuous” (eternal maybe?) covenantal language, WITH its obvious implications in vv. 35-37 – so that anyone whoever reads this from here-on-out, will undoubtedly realize that you operate as one of whom is utterly lacking in a necessarily “high-regard” for the contextually relevant “truth” revealed in Holy Scripture.

            One simply cannot place one’s personally valued, ANTI-Semitic interpretations – like Pantelists, Preterists et al. have clearly done – ABOVE “…the faith that was once and for all delivered unto the saints” (i.e., Jude 3).

            BTW: “The House of Israel and the House of Judah” (i.e., Jacob/Israel) mentioned just below in Jeremiah 31:31 – whose very important passage is recounted in Hebrews chapter 8 – is NEVER utilized throughout the New Covenant Scriptures as a valid description, or designation for the “Church,” “ekklesia,” or the “Body of Christ.” So this means in scriptural context, that the Jews & Gentiles comprising the “Body of Christ” ever since the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost in Acts chapter 2 – thus the NT “Church” and/or “ekklesia” itself – REMAINS concurrently distinct throughout so-called Church history – which still continues to this very hour – from national/political Israel, or Jacob.

            And Jeremiah 31:35-37 at the end just below, couldn’t possibly be any clearer on this extremely VITAL doctrinal issue; as Yahweh references the perpetual examples on manifest display throughout nature (including its “laws”) – as a prime, irrefutable example of His Covenant-keeping faithfulness TO Israel – “His firstborn Son” – Exodus 4:22 – as well as ALL those of whom He’s ever “called” and/or brought into a personal, “saving” relationship since “before time began.” (e.g., Romans 8:29-30; Eph. 1:3-4; 2 Tim. 1:9-10; Titus 1:1-3)

            ▪ ▪ ▪

            “Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.” (vv. 31-34)

            “Thus says the LORD,
            who gives the sun for light by day and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar—the LORD of hosts is his name: “If this fixed order departs from before me, declares the LORD, then shall the offspring of Israel cease from being a nation before me forever.” Thus says the LORD:
            “If the heavens above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth below can be explored then I will cast off all the offspring of Israel for all that they have done, declares the LORD.”

            (Jeremiah 31:31-37)

          • Kevin Quillen

            so did Jesus die once for ALL or not? If dispensationalism be true, why did God not give Israel all the land promised to Abraham when Israel was “reborn” in 1948? Please answer this…where is the “gap” between the 69th and 70th week? Who was Jesus talking to in Matt 24:34? them or us? If us, as commonly taught today, when did the subject change in the conversation? Are there 2 covenants? And if you answer nothing else….please, please answer this…..when all is over, prophetically, new heaven and new earth etc., will people still be born on this new earth?

        • Hmmm…

          You are right; I do the same. However, I think the Holy Spirit joins us to others, including teachers. There is a draw and peace with it. The groupie thing is something else. Paul said to follow him as he followed the Lord. I’ve had the Lord tell me to stop listening to someone years ago who was very fussy and fractious for a season. However, the man worked through that and I was led to continue with his teachings and support. We are to be invested in this life, this kingdom and people of God and share his heart about these matters, to pray. We don’t have to partake where not led, but have the Lord’s desire that none be lost, that none be led astray.

  • Robert Hightower

    We walk a fine line. “Messy Grace” as Pastor Kaltenbach calls it. Tolerance is often confused with Acceptance. Only those who walk in the Word and with the Spirit can See the difference. Even if the Truth is spoken with grace, it is seen as hate.

    • Kevin Quillen

      Thank you brother for those words. Denominational and tradition blinders are hard to get past.

  • It’s amazing how things devolve. Compassion certainly, but that is not acknowledging error as normal. Jesus would be compassionate, though I would not dare to speak for Him.

    • childofjehovah

      Jesus was compassionate. However, He was pretty hard on the Pharisees (the pastors of the day), who should have known better.

      • He was compassionate more so than hard. The Pharisees were a particular case, the only case I can come up with.

    • Kevin Quillen

      like devolving from truth to Darby’s silly rapture? Yes it is amazing how many buy into foolishness. Dispensationalism, prosperity gospel, tongue talking, the rebirth of Israel, earth burning up, etc..

  • Gary

    The New Testament is very clear that trying to live a moral, faithful life is what God wants for His children. Christians don’t have God’s permission to sin.

    • Kevin Quillen

      Thank you Gary. It is a very simple message really. Choose to have a relationship with your Heavenly Father in this life, or be corrected for your behavior in the next. But the question is, what is correction? Punishment forever and ever would be just torture. Correction has a purpose. To bring to repentance the wayward child. When punishment has worked it’s purpose, the child is restored to the Father and can come into His presence. Hence, Christian Universalism has it right. Remember, “every knee will bow and every tongue confess, Jesus is Lord”. One cannot say “Jesus is Lord” without the Holy Spirit unction. Therefore ALL will be restored to the Father eventually. Jesus is Savior of ALL!

      • Deedee

        Kevin…do you believe all of what is written in Scripture? I am asking sincerely to try to understand where you are coming from.

        • Jim Walker

          He tend to focus only on certain parts.

          • Kevin Quillen

            no, I tend to study all.

          • Hmmm…

            Jack of All … master at ….

        • Kevin Quillen

          yes all. It all fits Christian Universalism if you dig beyond denominational brainwashing. Most of the early church fathers were CU. It is historical fact. The Bible was contorted to be used as a method to control people. Still is today. Although unknowingly in most cases. Man is relying on tradition more then the word. Case in point…..Many teach tithing as mandatory. NOT true! It will not take you long to see this if you research it. There were three tithes that added up to 23.3% of ones “increase”, if it is still in effect, why teach 10%? It all comes from a misunderstanding of Matt 5:18. If heaven and earth have not burned up yet, then we are still under the law. But what if heaven and earth already did? Would that not change everything? Yes it would and does. The heaven and earth spoken of here is the old covenant and the Jews as God’s chosen people. Look up the Greek word for “elements” in 2 Pet 3:10-12. This is a good starting point. Hint….it does not mean dirt, rocks, the planet and such. Happy hunting.

          • Deedee

            Well, Kevin…you kind of went all over the place with your answer…but I have to respectfully disagree with your views regarding grace. We are most certainly under grace, but I disagree with “…or be corrected in the next”. The Bible makes it quite clear that we won’t have a “next”. Read Cossians 3:1-10. Also Romans 6:1-7. I’m thinking you are pretty set in your way and won’t hear anything I have to say…but I guess we will all find out what is TRUTH someday soon. GOD bless.

          • Kevin Quillen

            1 Pet 3:19 & 20 and 4:6 If Jesus preached to the dead in the past, can He not now?

  • Patmos

    Jesus said he came to do God’s will. God’s will regarding these things is plainly stated, to the point where there should be zero confusion on the matter. I have no idea what these people are thinking.

    • Kevin Quillen

      Patmos;

      Would ever TOTALLY reject one of your children? Do you really think God would? No, He loves us far beyond our understanding.

  • I don’t know if Paul Ellis is the “hyper-grace” teacher who must not be named. But his book is called The Hyper-Grace Gospel: A Response to Michael Brown and Those Opposed to the Modern Grace Message. You can look it up on Amazon.

    • Hmmm…

      I neither read nor sensed any particular opposition to the grace message of today from Mr. Brown in the above, but a wise caution concerning its extreme, which always comes when a truth is emphasized in a season. Restoration of ignored or forgotten truths is from the Holy Spirit; its inevitable abuse is from another, so thus the wisdom of Biblical cautions. Mr. Ellis’ calling out book does not automatically deliver credibility merely by its assertions, even if quite bold.

    • GPS Daddy

      One of the “issues” that I think exists today in the area of sexual freedom and the gospel is that sexual “sin” is seen as different than sin. The problem that I see with the “hyper-grace message” on the issue of sexual freedom is that we can charge full ahead for God’s grace covers us. But sin is sin regardless of the sin. If we sin we are guilty of breaking the law of God… It does not matter what the offense is:

      James 2:10 “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.”

      While I may not struggle with murder that does not make me innocent before God. I am no “better” than the murderer because I break other parts of God’s law. Now how does grace fit in? Grace means that all is washed away. But that means I turn away from sin… what every that sin is. If murder is the sin I struggle with then I stop murdering people. An ISIS fighter cannot continue their murderous streak and claim the grace of God through Jesus, right? Surely that makes sense.

      Now murder is easy to separate out. You stop pulling the trigger. Yet, lets says that murder is a really problem for someone. If they murder again then will God forgive them? Yes. But there is a difference between “slipping” or failing and a continuous pursuit. When Jesus was asked how many times we are to forgive one another, Jesus answered:

      Matt 18:22, “Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.”

      Or, you don’t stop forgiving.

      Hate is a different issue. Hate is the real issue behind murder. Jesus says:

      1 John 3:15, “Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.”

      But hate is something that we battle on the inside, right? Hate is something that can very much be harder to get a handle on. A person can fail at this all the time. God grace leads you to repentance (turn back to God, confess it to God and agree with God that its not right):

      Rom 2:4, “Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and
      patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?”

      So hear is the issue: Can someone fall from grace? There is the “yes you can” group and the “no you can’t group”. The part of hyper-grace that is an issue is the part that says “no you can’t” fall from grace so have at it.

      The other group that says “yes you can” fall from grace has an opposite problem. Those people can end up feeling like they are not saved until they repent and then their back in grace again.

      Both have their focus on the wrong thing. Coming to God’s grace means that I agree with God on my need and my sin and then I run hard towards God away from sin. I don’t try and see how close I can get to the sin line and not sin… do thing puts you over the line… all the time.

      The Apostle Paul puts it this way:

      Phil 3:12-14, “12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on [h]so that I may lay hold of that [i]for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. ”

      So to the sexual freedom our culture demands we embrace. God’s way is clear. We see it in the way nature is (for a human). There is male and female. They are designed for each other. Their parts fit together. They, together, produce offspring. There is no other possible way for children to come into the world. Only through one father and one mother. Every other sexual agrangement is sin. We run from it to God. We can fail or fall. But we get back up, agree with God on His standard, then continue to run towards Him.

  • m-nj

    Nothing new under the sun… This was the same heresy that Paul dealt with in Romans (Romans 6) and John dealt with in 1 John. It’s called antinomianism, or “anti-law”, and is an un-Biblical response to its polar opposite, legalism.

    • Hmmm…

      I don’t think the scripture here is referring to hyper-grace, but the true grace or empowerment to overcome the negative draw of sin. Your reference seems to link sin and grace together as two evils. Heaven forbid!

      • Kevin Quillen

        very good, thank you.

    • Kevin Quillen

      Because of my realization of the incredible love of the Father and Jesus, the grace message makes me want to live right and represent them all the more. Would you cheat on your wife just because you had the opportunity? I suppose not. Why? Because you love her and she is worthy of your love. Even though you have the “license” you do not use it. I am convinced that one cannot be scared into right relationship with God. You cannot force love. That is what the foul doctrine of eternal punishment tries to do. Love me or else! No friend, God is love and if He expects us to love our enemies, He will certainly do the same. Our Heavenly Father loves ALL his children. Even unbelievers. He will restore them eventually. ALL of them. They will miss out on the benefits of relationship with Him in this life but be restored in the next. God is that good!

      • Bryan

        Kevin, you’re skating very close to Universalism and Hyper-Grace I think. Yes, God’s incredible love means I can choose to not sin. Paul says as much when he says that the old self is gone and we are new creatures in Christ. Yet Paul also says, should I keep sinning so grace may increase? Absolutely not! Like you said we should choose, and we have the power to choose by the Holy Spirit, to not sin in the first place.
        In Christ, I cannot lose my salvation. However, as man with the knowledge of Good and Evil, I can choose to reject God’s love. I don’t want to get into a predestination versus free will debate, but I use the word choice to make clear that there are those who choose not to accept God’s gift of his Son. In that instance, those persons are not going to a place of eternal punishment so much as a place of eternal separation from God.
        Certainly God could make everyone love Him, yet he gives us the choice to do so or not because He wants us to love Him not be adoring robots. Christ didn’t die to make man love Him. Christ died so that those who love God have a way to God, through the atoning of our sin by the blood of Christ.

        • Kevin Quillen

          Jesus told us to love our enemies and do good to those that despise us(paraphrase). If He expects this from us, do you think He will not do at least as much? Please read the comments from me above to others. God is love and love does NO harm.

          • Bryan

            Kevin, I’m replying to you based on your comment here and to others above. First, the immediate rebuttal to “Every knee shall bow…” is that even the demons profess the name of Jesus but are not saved. Lucifer rejected the triune God (meaning including the Christ who died) and fell from Heaven. He was loved by God but he rejected God and continues to reject God. Above you say that judgement is only for a time until the judged are penitent. What if they continue to reject God for all eternity? Would not judgement continue for all eternity then as well?
            Also, God is love and his love is perfect. He draws us to himself. But if he forces us to love him, then we have become automatons, no longer able to choose God. God loves all of us, but he allows us to choose to love him.
            Lastly, if all will be with God after being punished temporarily, then what is the point of evangelizing? If it doesn’t matter in the end because all are with God eventually and eternally, then it doesn’t really matter if we pursue the lost with the Gospel or not because, eventually Christ will drag them back to himself.
            It may seem cruel that there is everlasting judgement. But that is a human perspective. From God’s perspective, I would think it’s profoundly sad that a creature you created would reject you for all time as well.

          • Kevin Quillen

            firstly…1 Cor 12:3…….”no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit”. At the name of Jesus every knee will bow …… and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord…Phil 2:10 and 11. Pretty much says it all. Some will do this in this life and those who do not? When will they? It says that ALL will. So, when will they if not in this life? We cannot limit Jesus to this life. Why can He not go to the lost after death? He did before. 1 Pet 3:19&20 and 4:6. Solves that little problem. No one can resist God’s love forever. He desires ALL to be saved. Do you think that the Creator of the universe cannot have His desire? The Bible says “no one can stay His hand.” Please study the concept of “everlasting punishment”. You will be surprised.

          • Bryan

            There will certainly be a lot of surprised ones one day. Good luck, Kevin.

          • Kevin Quillen

            good luck to you as well.
            Peace brother

          • Jim Walker

            Totally agree!!! Thanks Bryan.

      • Deedee

        Proverbs 16:25 brother…And…yes…God IS SO GOOD…but He is also JUST. He cannot allow the ungodly into His Kingdom…if so, everything that has been accomplished for His coming Kingdom in the past 5,000 plus years has been for nothing. Read the Word bro…it is so very clear when read in His Spirit.

        • Kevin Quillen

          John 12:32 Jesus says that if He is lifted up from the earth(on the cross) He will “draw” all men to Himself. Research the word “draw”. It means literally to “drag”! Your puny free will is NOT greater than the love of your Father. What He desires He will do, and He desires All to come to Him. It will be done. “Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord! If not in this life, then in the next!! The ungodly are not allowed into His kingdom until they repent and confess Jesus. Punishment without end is not punishment at all. It is vengeful torture. Sound like a loving Father? Punishment has purpose. To correct and change. Check out tentmaker(dot)org and hopebeyondhell(dot)com
          Peace bro and may God bless you.
          Kevin

  • One of the reasons this kind of stuff gains any traction in Christian culture is because of the almost complete ignorance and ignoring of the Old Testament in Evangelical circles. I ask people all the time if they’ve read the OT lately or ever, and I get all kinds of stammering and statements like, it’s confusing and so on. Yet the OT is what Jesus said is all about him! Even a quick read through will reveal that God takes this sin thing very seriously.

    • Kevin Quillen

      God took the “sin” thing so seriously that He came as a man and died a horrible death for you and me. He wanted relationship with us so bad that He did this. Hebrews 12:2 says it all………..”for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross” What joy? It would only be joy if the sacrifice served it’s purpose…….to restore ALL to the Father! Do you think success would be 5% saved and 95% eternally lost? That is what most believe without even realizing it.

      • Paul

        Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

        Matthew 7:13-14

        • Deedee

          There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end leads to death. Proverbs 16:25

        • Kevin Quillen

          AH but what is the “destruction”? It means “ruin,or loss”. What is ruined or lost? The relationship with the Father. Hell is not in this verse! Go to tentmaker(dot)org and hopebeyondhell(dot)com and spend some time there.

          • Paul

            What do you claim it is?

          • Kevin Quillen

            I told you already. The relationship with your Heavenly Father is lost, or ruined. ALL were reconciled to our Father and justified by Christ’s faith. Those who accept the sacrifice are saved from th wrath of God. Those who do not(wide gate) miss the relationship and are punished for their sin. Not everlasting in hell. Punished until corrected and repentant. Then allowed to be in Fathers presence.

          • Paul

            and what is this form of punishment?

          • Kevin Quillen

            imagine standing before God, who sent His Son to die for you, who died a horrible, agonizing death, and with His gaze upon you, you realize that have caused His Son to die in vain. You will realize your failure and be cut to the heart. That my friend is punishment. Maybe some will repent immediately and some may have to be sent somewhere to ponder their lives and shortcomings. Just my opinion. But think about this……when you were a little kid did you ever really think that your father did not love you? I felt that at times. It is the worst pain I know of. But even through it all, no matter what we do our Father never stops loving us!! He will bring ALL back to Himself.

          • Paul

            What you are saying here conflicts with passages like 1 Th 1:9 “These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,”

            Paul clearly defines ‘these’ in the previous verse 8 “dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.”

            Paul says eternal destruction while you’re claiming we all get a do-over. These two scenarious can’t coexist

          • Kevin Quillen

            as I have said many times, the word translated as “eternal” is incorrect. Look for yourself. It is the Greek “aion” or “aionios”. It means a period of time having a beginning and an end. It is only
            “eternal” when describing God. It is an adjective. An adjective cannot be bigger than the thing it describes. You must be careful. The translators had an agenda in places. Like using religion to control people. Example: a slave must serve his master forever. Really? In this case “forever” is limited to the lifetime of the slave. Get it? Many times in the Bible, “forever” is not really forever. Jonah was in the fish “forever”. Jonah 2:6. Levites would be priests “forever”. Still around and doing priestly things? It is a very serious subject and should be studied deeply. Man has perverted scripture for a purpose. I do not comment on here to argue or just for fun. Many years of study. Here is a good point to consider……look up the Greek for “elements” in 2 Pet 3:10 and 12 and compare to Gal 4:3 and 9. Same Greek word in all places. So, tell me, what is “burning up” in 2 Peter? Also, look at the Greek word for “air” in 1 Thess 4:17. Is the use of this word an error? Shouldn’t it be the Greek word for the atmosphere? Do you plan on being raptured about 3 or 4 feet? This is important, please research. By the way, I only use the famous rapture verse as an example Greek language. I know that there will be no rapture. Research J N Darby and the Plymouth Brethren. This along with the 1909 Scofield Bible is the cause of the silly rapture being prevelent today.

          • Paul

            Fundamental to your beliefs is that the Bible doesn’t say what it says. I don’t know Hebrew or Greek and rely on various translations for my Biblical understanding. What version of English translation do you consider accurate?

          • Kevin Quillen

            did you or will you do any research on the topics I suggested? I use KJV mostly, but have several versions. It has been determined that there is very little difference between versions. About 2% at most if memory serves. Close enough that the truth is in all. I use Strong’s concordance and Greek and Hebrew dictionary mostly, but use the multitude of resources on the web also. I have answered your questions and done my best to give you examples and things to study. If you choose not too, then I must end discussion. It has been interesting and I will gladly continue. But not if you are unwilling to look into these things yourself and just choose believe what you want without serious study. Peace to you and yours,
            Kevin

          • Paul

            Yes I gave a look at your links, I’d need hundreds of hours of free time to comb through all of it and at this stage our dialog is helping me discern if it would be fruitful or a waste. There’s an abundance of theological content out on the web that would take several lifetimes to read, a person needs to be wise about it. Unfortunately at this point I’m not getting what you’re selling, it’s based on the errancy of scripture and yet you’re indicating there’s no translations that have it right. This sounds like a very steep slippery slope to making up whatever you want about the Bible. Not seeing how there’s anything solid with that shifting foundation.

          • Kevin Quillen

            please take a little time to do a little research, not just take a look. None of this stuff is a salvation issue but does speak to the credibility of Christ. That is why I find it very important.

          • Chip Crawford

            Banks study real currency to develop a sense of fake bills. I know the genuine, so your fake stands out like a sore thumb.
            Besides, we are not to feed on trash.

          • Kevin Quillen

            evreyone said Martin Luther was wrong too.

          • davidrev17

            Kevin: (Please carefully/prayerfully consider the following.)

            Since I noticed in all of yours et al. comments re: this issue of “Universalism” (or NOT), that no one, including yourself, had referenced the Scriptural passages below (and there’s several others too); would you please provide a consistent scriptural response to what the term “second death” means/indicates in its relevant context, as well as what Jesus’ statement represented within the context of (Matthew 22:23-33) – namely, “God is NOT the God of the DEAD, BUT of the LIVING”? My emphasis of course.

            Also, your take on the meaning(s), or application(s) of the word “everlasting” (i.e., Greek = “aionios”) is terribly strained, to say the least, as this word has several “age-lasting,” “perpetual,” and “continual” – can you say “eternal,” or “ever more”…in the same context? – renderings/applications in both Old/New Covenants – as it’s even used for one of Yahweh’s very many names in the OT, i.e., “El Olam” = “Everlasting Father,” and even the “nature,” or “duration” of Jesus’ life, work, Kingdom etc.

            (See the excellent work on these words [including “eternal”], in the highly respected “Young’s Analytical Concordance to the Bible.”)

            Additionally, this is also the same Greek word used to describe not only the “nature” and/or “duration” of the punishment one receives – mentioned so clearly in Scripture by using “everlasting” – but also the SAME Greek word utilized to indicate the “nature/duration” of one’s SALVATION experience – you know, “everlasting LIFE” – after one’s being “born again,” or (“born from above” = Greek “anothen”); also seen in our becoming “partakers of the Divine nature” (2 Peter 1:4), subsequent to one’s receiving “eternal life,” through our being “born again.”

            Are you trying to suggest that there’s actually a difference, IN KIND, between the nature/duration of what the “everlasting God” (i.e., “El Olam”) bestows upon His blood-bought “born-again” children, of whom receive “everlasting”/”eternal” LIFE, and the nature/duration of what one experiences in [“everlasting”/”eternal”) fire, destruction, punishment, torment etc; especially when the same Hebrew/Greek words/concepts are used for describing, or defining the sort of nature/duration of both types of “perpetual”/”ongoing” conditions??

            And one last question: based upon your opinions about “Universalism” shared here, do you also believe that ultimately, even “the devil, the beast, and the false prophet,” are going to experience “everlasting life,” in spite of what’s unambiguously stated in Revelation 20:10???

            * * *

            “And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.” (Revelation 14:9-11)

            * * *

            “Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.”

            “And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”

            “Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the DEAD, great and small, STANDING before the throne, and BOOKS were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the BOOK OF LIFE. And the DEAD were JUDGED by what was WRITTEN IN THE BOOKS, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the DEAD who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the DEAD who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the SECOND DEATH, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the BOOK OF LIFE, he was thrown into the lake of fire” (Revelation 20:4-15, emphasis added).

          • Jim Walker

            Thanks! Amen!

          • Kevin Quillen

            “…for God is NOT the God of the DEAD, but of the LIVING.” (Matthew 22:32)

            Romans 14:9 says “For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living”.
            There is much too much to respond to now. I will address some though, the things I see as most relevant. The book of Rev was probably written in 67 or 68 A.D.. There is much debate but the evidence seems to be stronger on the early date side. Why do I see this as an important issue? Because of the destruction of the temple in 70 A.D. and the end of the old covenant and the fulfillment of the prophecy of the judgment coming to the Jews for killing the prophets. Matt 23:34-36. Notice “this generation”. Just like in Matt 24:34. “this generation”. If you are one that believes that somewhere Jesus changed His direction from the audience listening to Him and began speaking about a future generation as is commonly believed and taught, then please tell me where this change takes place. No the subject and object never changes. Jesus is referring to the “Day of the Lord” spoken of throughout scripture. That is why it was taught that “time is short” 1 Cor 7:29 and 31. That is why 1 John 2:17-18 talks of the world passing away and it being the “LAST HOUR”. The last hour before what? The end of the AGE. The old cov age and the coming in it’s fullness the new cov age. The destruction of Jerusalem and the temple was the culmination of Bible prophecy. All is fulfilled.
            Now a word on the adjective aion and it’s derivatives. An adjective cannot be greater then what it describes. Matt 25:46 is the verse most used against my position of “corrective punishment” as opposed to eternal. The thought goes like this…..the same word is used for both eternal and everlasting in the same sentence. Therefore they have to mean the same thing. But is this true? No. Why? Suppose I tell you that I have a big house and a big car. Do you envision a car sitting by my house that is the same size as my house. No. Why not? Because as I stated above, the adjectives value is determined by what it describes. God is eternal, so the life He gives us is eternal. In this case the meaning of aion is in fact eternal. But, is punishment that goes on forever really punishment? No. It would simply be torture. Punishment has purpose. Eternal punishment is not punishment at all. Does that sound like a loving Father? We are in the eternal state now. Nothing more to come. Each in his own turn will stand before God and either enter Heaven or enter the punishment phase until one repents and bows the knee and confesses that Jesus is Lord. All will eventually. Last point for now. If the book of Rev was written in or about 95 A.D., don’t you think the temple being destroyed in 70 AD would at least be mentioned? But it speaks of the temple still standing. Do you think it will be rebuilt someday as many teach? Look up the attempt to rebuild the temple in 363 AD by the emperor Julian. For a more complete understanding of my beliefs research Pantelism. If you want to continue discussion, try to keep it shorter, it is hard to answer such a long discourse.
            Peace brother.

          • davidrev17

            ***”Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you, and you be found a liar.” (Proverbs 30:5-6)***

            Deal with the “SECOND DEATH” Kevin! I specifically, and humbly asked you to exegete this critically relevant, unchanging biblical concept, in a scripturally consistent manner too. Yet, you wind-up mind-bogglingly not only ignoring that, but you quote Romans 14:9) – while completely wrenching-it from its surrounding context mind you – in order to demonstrate that Romans 14:9 either flatly contradicts the words of the Lord Jesus you quoted just above it (i.e., Matthew 22:32); or maybe you thought it somehow helps interpret the Matthew text – even though the specific context in BOTH passages are diametrically opposed to one another?

            Thus you zealously reproduce two logically opposing texts, absolutely OUT of context, which categorically refute one another? Yet you can’t even “see,” or recognize that? And this was supposed to “pass” for an answer of some sort Kevin?? As usual, you’re all-over-the-map in your posts to myself et al. re: this very serious heresy, of which you continue to unrepentantly propound – with unmitigated-glee at that.

            (BTW: The context in Romans chapter 14 was all about the activity, or behavior, that takes place between stronger and/or weaker brothers & sisters “IN CHRIST” – in those “grey” areas not specifically addressed in Holy Scripture, as are those “black & white” issues; whose context clearly implicates those in the “FAMILY” of God, whether dead, or still-alive on planet earth. Just look at Romans 14:1-8, plus verse’s 10-13ff.? The context should leap-off-the-page into your heart! It’s ALL FAMILY-RELATED teaching.)

            Anyway, you are in a very tragic spiritual “bind” Kevin; as your ultra-heretical false gospel of “Pantelistic” purgatorial redemption – aka Hyper-Hyper-Grace on Luciferian-empowered steroids – does nothing but “counsel rebellion” in the hearts of mankind, including genuine “children of the Most High”; while at the same time openly-accusing God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit of lying? Yikes!!!

            “Pantelism” does NOT, in any conceivable way, represent the one-and-only-gospel of which the rabbinical scholar “Sha’ul of Tarsus,” or “Paul,” the Apostle to the Gentiles, had consistently preached, let alone the rest of Jesus’ Apostolic leaders & followers of whom the Holy Spirit had utilized, in the compilation of the Greek New Testament; since the entire message preached during the formative stages of the 1st century “Church” = “ekklesia” – had its SOLE origin within the text of the Hebrew Bible.

            So this no doubt means that you, and your Pantelistic cohorts, are preaching a “counterfeit gospel” – of which comes under the “curse of God,” so emphatically and unambiguously stated by Paul in Galatians 1:6-9. (But please read entire context in 1:1-12, in order to understand the “WHY” behind this unimaginable curse being leveled against anything OTHER than that which had been revealed to the Apostle Paul, by the Lord Jesus Himself!) Also, you might consider the description of this sort of activity provided in 2 Corinthians 11:2-4, 13-15.

            And one final observation, as I’ll no longer engage you on this critically serious matter, as long as you remain boldly unrepentant:

            The entire unbiblical hermeneutical driving-force undergirding this Pantelistic interpretation of yours et al. – as well as different strains of “Preterism” – is such that virtually ALL of prophetic redemptive history must, of necessity, find its consummate fulfillment BY 70 AD/CE; whose very peculiar interpretive method amounts to nothing more than hammering the “square-peg” of multifarious events that’ve transpired in world history – down-into the “round-hole” of their necessarily having met their “terminus,” in-or-around 70 CE??? That’s simply irrational, and terribly illogical; for “God is NOT the author of confusion.”

            Yet this “twisting and distorting” hermeneutical approach leaves a massive gaping-hole (or GIANT question-mark?) not only throughout Holy Scripture – especially with regard to its inerrancy – but also where so many of the nation’s on planet earth are concerned; not the least of which is the nation of Israel, the “center of the world” – aka “God’s prophetic time-clock”!

            And please don’t forget this: AFTER Jesus’ crucifixion, physical/bodily resurrection, then His ascension to the Father’s right-hand to the very throne of God – including the wholesale destruction, some 37-years later, of Jerusalem and its Temple circa AD 70 – there still remains to this very hour, easily a FEW-HUNDRED UN-fulfilled prophecies; whose still-hanging-in-mid-air (looking-for-a-place-to-find-fulfillment) presence in both Old/New Testament’s – as well as here on earth – presents an insurmountably skewed prophetic jigsaw-puzzle, with multiplied pieces missing – of which must necessarily be explained-away in a truly tail-chasing fashion.

            Thus I’m openly accusing you of peddling on this site, a most insidious form of heresy Kevin – including your tragically errant false-gospel! I simply cannot frame-it any other way. As such, I’ll just obey what the Scriptures teach in this regard. May the Lord have mercy on you, and “grant you repentance” – while you still have His “breath” in you, keeping you alive!

          • Kevin Quillen

            “Israel, the “center of the world” – aka “God’s prophetic time-clock”!”
            I heard Tommy Ice say on television when asked where the “gap” is between the 69th week and the 70th week of Daniel’s prophecy in Chapter 9, “it is there because it has to be there”. Thus sums up the problem with dispensationalism. It is commonly taught that Jesus in Matt 24:34 is speaking of a future generation, usually termed as “us”, the terminal generation. It is obvious to any thinking Christian that this is nonsense. Please show me scripturally where the “great parenthesis is in scripture. Why if God has restored Israel and put them back in their land, did He only give them a very small portion of the land promised to Abraham? Look, my friend, if you want to understand my theology more fully, rather than doing it this difficult way, please go and watch a few Don K Preston videos on you tube. They are short and quite interesting. Preston for preterism and Hopebeyondhell(dot)com for the Christian Universalism view. Last point……..when will you abandon the rebirth of Israel being prophetically important? How many years will have to pass before this silly notion is let go of? It has been 69 years so far, how many that “saw” the “super sign” are still around? How old would one have to be to “see” the rebirth of Israel with understanding? Maybe 15 years old? If so the youngest of “that generation” is 84. Not many left. At what point will those who believe this nonsense give up? Oh wait, now they are saying that the 1967 capture of east Jerusalem is the “sign”. What next. Gotta think of another scenario to sell them books and tapes and raise that money! Do you realize that considering the belief in eternal punishment in Hell, the best thing Christian mothers can do is kill their babies. Seriously, most will not become real believers and so will be destined for Hell. I know that is weird to say but think it through. Then they can ask for forgiveness and get to Heaven anyway. Your “religion” is nonsense. In my view, those babies grow up and have a choice to make. Enter into a relationship with their Heavenly Father in this life and avoid the wrath or live in the flesh and meet him later. Which makes more sense to you? God is love and love does no harm. Period. Love does not punish FOREVER!
            I hope you investigate further.
            Peace to you.

          • Jim Walker

            Spoken like a Love is Love LGBT version, coming your way to full acceptance by your Hypergrace Gnospel.

            How can you harm the LGBT? You can’t so you got to embrace their sins as well. Soon the pedos will join you too.

            Looks and feels great ain’t it ? Your hypergrace just require a one time repentance and accepting Lord Jesus and whatever you do, Jesus’s blood will cleanse you from any sin you committed as you live a grace-filled life packaged in some Oops, I sinned again… but its OK, no harm will come to you (if there is, you of little faith !), even the devil will give you some respect and go to others to steal kill and destroy. Oh, you are so iron-clad saved, because of OSAS crap.
            .

      • I’m sorry, Kevin, but universalism is profoundly unbiblical. God chooses some not everyone. He chose Noah and his family; everyone else died. He chose Abram out of all the peoples of the earth to create his own people. He chose Moses out of all the Hebrews to lead his people out of slavery. He chose David from among all his brothers to lead Israel. And he chose those who would be in Christ from among all the lost. I don’t like the idea of Hell and eternal punishment, but what I like is irrelevant. What is revealed by God is, no matter how distasteful to me. I stand with Moses in Deut. 32:3,4:

        I will proclaim the name of the Lord.
        Oh, praise the greatness of our God!
        4 He is the Rock, his works are perfect,
        and all his ways are just.
        A faithful God who does no wrong,
        upright and just is he.

        • Kevin Quillen

          there is no “eternal punishment”. The problem is this…..translators instilled their ideas into the text. In reality, eternal punishment, is “age enduring corrective punishment”. Punishment that lasts for a time until the purpose is achieved. Eternal does not always mean forever. Jonah 2:6. There are several more examples but this one should make the point. 1 Tim 4:10 says that Jesus is Savior of ALL men, especially those that believe. The ones who believe, you and me, escape the wrath of God by accepting the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. Those who do not will face God’s wrath when they die. BUT…..after a time of corrective punishment, they too will repent and say “Jesus is Lord”, and be restored to the Father and allowed in His presence. 1 Cor 15:22….All died in Adam, and by Jesus ALL are made alive. Hallelujah! You see the problem is this….the scriptures were perverted to be used as a method to control people, maintain power, and extort money. Please go to tentmaker(dot)org, or hopebeyondhell(dot)com and do spend a little time there.
          Peace my brother,
          Kevin

          • Jim Walker

            “Eternal does not always mean forever. Jonah 2:6”
            Jonah was still alive in the Whale’s tummy. Do you actually reference this as Hell ?

            “Those who do not will face God’s wrath when they die. BUT…..after a time of corrective punishment, they too will repent and say “Jesus is Lord”, and be restored to the Father and allowed in His presence”

            By your explanation, there will not be eternal (forever) weeping and gnashing of teeth as all of those souls will repent and shoot straight back to Heaven. I hope you are right because my flesh body wants to sin so much now and this can be my 2nd chance to go heaven after I die.

            “You see the problem is this….the scriptures were perverted to be used as a method to control people, maintain power, and extort money”
            Maybe you should change the words to correct it to your hyper grace version.

          • Kevin Quillen

            all you need to do, and would if you were a serious Bible believer, is to study the Hebrew and Greek words for everlasting, eternal, forever, etc.. It matters not if Jonah was alive. The point is….he was not in the fish FOREVER. Go to the websites I recommended and study for yourself. There is plenty of historical info PROVING that the doctrine of eternal punishment in hell was man made for nefarious reasons. A believer should be willing to study all viewpoints to find truth. I actually have tried to disprove what I believe by studying. Believing something just because it is prominent is not smart. By the way, Martin Luther went against 1500 years of tradition. He was advised by his friends that everybody could not be wrong. Last point, there is only one theological position in which all verses fit. No ignoring some, twisting some. That is what I have always tried to find. God wrote us a book. I am certain that He intended for it to be understood. And I am certain that the way to understand it is through prayer and the leading of the Holy Spirit. We must not rely on others to do our digging and tell us the truth. It is our responsibility.

          • Jim Walker

            Kevin, by your standards, I can live a wayward life, pump drugs, lead a promiscuous life, beat my wife, drink till I get a liver transplant, steal kill and destroy all I want and leave this earth and bingo! I’ll still go heaven because there is another ticket to heaven after I realise hell isnt a fun place to be.
            As for me, each day I live I want God to be beside me, always under his grace coverage and do good drawing strength from Him and die knowing My destination is Heavenward.
            I wish you well.

          • Kevin Quillen

            you really want to face your Creator and be punished for your disobedience? Does your version of God send to Hell those who never hear about Jesus? Think it through. You obviously have not yet. My version of God will save them also, after meeting Jesus. Which one sounds like a loving Father?
            Peace

          • Jim Walker

            “Does your version of God send to Hell those who never hear about Jesus?”
            Bro that is not for you to double think but God.
            You don’t speak on behalf of Him who gets into Heaven.
            Many hypergrace friends I know believes a god that says don’t repent or ask for forgiveness because they are under grace and tomorrow your sins are already forgotten by God because Jesus’s blood cleansed once and for All, Don’t spend too much time praying to him as he does not like reminders.
            They believe that one family member is saved the whole household is saved. It’s like a group ticket.
            These beliefs maybe normal to you and it sure is so simple and easy going life having your version of god. You use go to him for blessings, nothing else.

          • Hmmm…

            “My” version of God … no thanks; I’ll stick with the one true God.

          • Well, Kevin, I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I’ll have to stick with the orthodox position of the last 2000 years. I could never be as absolute in my confidence as you, so at the end of the day I trust the Lord as Moses proclaimed. BTW, “all” doesn’t always mean each and every one in Scripture. And peace to you too.

  • Paul1234

    “I’m not naming names here…….” Okay, Mr. Brown. I guess I’ll just have to find the wolf in sheep’s clothing on my own. I hope I can find the wolf before too many of the sheep get eaten. Thanks a lot.

    • Katann

      Get yourself grounded in God’s word and you’ll know how to discern a big bad wolf. The sheep of the Lord’s fold hear only His voice.

      • Paul1234

        “For Demas, having loved this present world, has deserted me.” “Alexander the coppersmith did me much harm; the Lord will repay him according to his deeds. Be on guard against him yourself, for he vigorously opposed our teaching.” 2 Tim. 4:10,14,15. Paul should have told Timothy to get grounded in God’s word so he could spot the wolves and not depend on Paul to point them out.

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          I told him the same thing on his website where he also ran this story. Knowing who a wolf is and not warning others is NOT the loving thing to do.

  • Jim Walker

    Totally agree. Hypergrace Gnospel will eventually lead to them embracing LGBT agenda because their grace is on hyper mode.

    • Kevin Quillen

      You apparently do not understand the Gospel of Grace. There is liberty, the truth set me FREE! There are no rules(legalism). Because I understand the great love of God for ALL, I love Him even more than when I felt I HAD to do this and not do that or I will face eternal punishment. That is a horrible doctrine started to control people. Because I love Him so much, I would never do anything to harm our relationship. I want to represent Him to all. You cannot scare someone into loving you.

      • Jim Walker

        I do understand the Gospel of Grace. I don’t want to associate with the Gnospel of Hypergrace.

  • Wayne Cook

    that article was so needed,..I work in the TV end of things so I see hundreds of pastors a year come through our studios…some speak of growth, some of books, some, very few speak like Dr Brown.

    This almost smacks of the same spirit as replacement theology.

    Your comment was well framed, Deedee.

  • Kevin Quillen

    The book of Rev is about the judgment of God against the Jews for the killing of the prophets and their unbelief. Matt 23:34-36. Notice “this generation”, same as in Matt 24:34. Rev was written about 67 or 68 AD. Look at the evidence for the dating yourself. Those who overcame were the believers in Christ who were persecuted during the time between Christ’s ascension and the “end of the age”, that is to say the destruction of the temple and judgment on the Jews. Please consider Mat 26:64. Jesus told Caiaphas the high priest that He would see Jesus “coming on the clouds of Heaven”. To this Caiaphas cried “Blasphemy!” Why was this blasphemy? Because Caiaphas new what the term meant because he knew the scriptures. He understood Jesus was saying that He was God and was going to destroy the Jews as prophesied. This is what the book of Rev is about. Nothing for today. Modern day headline eschatology sells books and scares people into giving. Compare Matt 24:14 with Col 1:6 and 23. And Romans 1:8, and 1 Thess 1:8. See it? The “great commission was fulfilled in the first century(they saw “world” differently from us), so the “end” could come. And it did. The “end of the age”, not the “end of the world”. Food for thought. Peace to you.

Inspiration
Hold the Feelings — Just the Facts
Jennifer Hartline
More from The Stream
Connect with Us