An Open Letter to a Gay Christian

By Michael Brown Published on June 23, 2016

Dear Isaac,

With great interest, I read your “Open Letter To My Conservative Christian Family: A Response to the Orlando Shooting.” Over the last dozen years, I have done my best to listen to the stories of the LGBT community, especially those who profess faith in Jesus, and just as many of those stories touched me deeply, your open letter did as well.

If you don’t mind, I want to recap some of what you wrote for the benefit of those who have not read it, then I’ll share my heart with you.

As the son of two pastors, you’re responding to the question that many of us have asked, namely, “Why are we Christians being blamed for the Orlando shooting?” It’s a question I have addressed as well.

Your answer is what I have heard from other gay writers, but you explain things extremely well, having been raised in the church.

You wrote:

I fear that conservative Christians are being lumped in with the homophobic shooter, ISIS and religious radicals because, to the LGBT+ community, these are the groups who maintain the system that produces homophobia.

I’d like you to understand that homophobia is not only demonstrated by the shooter, the boys who punched me in the park, or the uncle who called me ‘faggot.’ Homophobia, at its core, is hatred that changes the way LGBT+ people understand their value.

This, of course, is the core of the issue, even if there is no direct connection between the Orlando massacre and Christian teaching.

As you explain, “You see, the blossoming of homophobia is violence, while the root system is the cultural/religious mindset that’s comfortable branding an entire group of people as relationally inferior, spiritually immature, as well as socially and sexually deviant.”

You continue: “When the messages of your churches and the sermons you clap for; when the messages you deliver as our parents, leaders and well-intentioned friends negatively shift the way we, people of the LGBT+ community, feel about our version of love, our relational offering, or our position in this world [as God’s beloved children], the system of homophobia is working through you.”

I’m glad you also wrote that you know this is not our intention, and I hope you can also realize that, when the church encountered homosexuality beginning in the late 1960s, it was often in its ugliest and most extreme forms. (I wrote about this earlier this week.)

But this is what struck me as most important in your article. As one who had been raised to embrace the “love the sin, hate the sinner” attitude, when you discovered you had bisexual attractions, you determined to hate your sin, adding, “But when your ‘sin’ is loving, your left with no option but to hate your entire self.”

Thus, you concluded, “I am not clean emotionally, romantically or spiritually. I am a perverted boy.

You were sure that, “As a diligent Christian boy, I knew God was going to kill me — an eternal life in hell,” and if He wouldn’t do it, then you should do it yourself, and so suicide was the logical option.

Isaac, although you may only know me as a conservative activist and alleged “vicious homophobe,” I can assure you before God that I have listened to other stories like yours (either face to face or in print), and I have wept at the pain you experienced. And I have sought to convey that pain to others.

In fact, if you read the opening chapter of my book Can You Be Gay and Christian?, you’ll see that I quote Justin Lee and other gay authors to convey these very points.

I truly believe the church must understand your perspective and feel your pain, and when you ask, “Without our sanctuaries, where would you have us turn?”, that is a question I have raised to my conservative colleagues on your behalf as well.

And your request is simple: “Many of us in the LGBT+ community are not bullying you into abandoning your religious values. We’re simply asking for camaraderie.”

As you conclude, “Please, help us build relational and religious paradigms free of hate. If we can accomplish this side-by-side, we could very well eradicate the divisions that keep us attacking one another. We may even save lives.”

So, here are my questions for you, which I write as someone who is absolutely committed to bringing healing and salvation to as many people as possible.

First, how can we “build relational and religious paradigms free of hate” when you are branding our sacred convictions as hateful?

If we are 100 percent sure that the Bible condemns homosexual practice, how can we hold to that teaching without you feeling that we hate you? If we are sure that our heavenly Father does not sanction same-sex relationships, no matter how loving and committed they may be, what would you have us do?

We absolutely want to be true to you, but we can only be true to you if we are true to God.

Second, if we cannot have real fellowship with professing Christians whom we believe are practicing sin — I’m not talking about the people of the world but about people who claim to be followers of Jesus — how can we have true fellowship with you if we believe you are living in sin?

We absolutely welcome anyone who struggles with any sin of the flesh or any fallen desire (and everyone one of us has these in our lives in one dimension or another), but we do not welcome those who celebrate their lifestyle as blessed by God when are we convinced that is not the case.

How do we resolve this?

Third, since you identify as bisexual, what stops you from affirming your heterosexual attraction as God-given and your homosexual attraction as fleshly, whatever its cause or root? Since all of us are called to deny ourselves and take up the cross and follow Jesus, why not deny that aspect of yourself?

More fundamentally, why identify as bisexual?

What if you had other, deep, seemingly unchangeable desires that were ugly and shameful? (Again, on some level, all believers acknowledge such desires, at least at some point of their walk with the Lord.) Would you publicly identify as that?

If you truly know the Lord, then that’s who are you: a son of God, washed in the blood of Jesus, even if you struggle with same-sex attraction. Your attractions don’t define you. The world may think like that, but we who know the Lord should know better than to fall into that trap.

Fourth, what do you say to those who are ex-gay? Do you embrace their stories and thank God for their transformation, or do you deny their stories and even call them liars or self-deceived? I have friends who went from gay to straight, others who experienced partial shifts, and others who are still same-sex attracted but are living celibate and blessed lives in the Lord. What kind of camaraderie do you have with them?

Isaac, I don’t write these things to quarrel with you or to win a debate but rather to respond from the heart, as your open, heartfelt letter, merited.

Shall we continue to talk?

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  • Gary

    There is no such thing as a “gay Christian”. Brown must not know this, which makes everything he says suspect. Brown has lost credibility with me. Brown can spend his time trying to “negotiate” with people who will never compromise if he wants to. It is his time. But I won’t follow his example.

    • Jeanette Victoria ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

      Ah Gary the liberal posing as a Christian…..

      • Gary

        LOL! Anyone who knows me knows that I am as far from a liberal as it is possible to get.

    • Cowboy

      Sounds like you should stop reading his articles and stop posting to them.

      • Gary

        Do you believe a person can be a “gay Christian”?? Why or why not?

        • Cowboy

          I am not going to isolate myself from someone who calls themselves a “gay Christian.” I don’t judge their statement – I believe that the Bible says that homosexuality is an abomination to God – but God is the final judge. He will judge the “gay Christian” for his or her life, but God will also judge me for how I treat that person. If we shun them complete – how will they ever come to really know the love of Jesus and be redeemed? What if we die and find out that that person had a last minute change of heart and we find them sitting next to us at the Lord’s table? God’s mercy is really beyond our comprehension.
          I have trouble dealing with the “in your face” gay activists. But I have the same trouble dealing with the “in your face” so called Christians that show no compassion or mercy towards others.

          • Gary

            I will shun anyone who claims to be a “gay Christian”. I know that there is no such creature, and I don’t want to pretend that someone who claims to be that has any validity.

          • Meredith Washburn

            Wow! I for one am glad Jesus did not shun me when I was a lost and confused sinner.

        • Gal 5:22-23

          Of course there are Christians of all kinds, even gay ones.

          Sexual immorality is a sin because it goes against our mandate to love ourselves, others and God perfectly. Relations within marriage is not a sin since it is a blessing and a binding. And Christians can marry regardless of ‘male or female’ for we walk in the next world where there is no marry or marriage. no more important than worrying about two fiber cloth or cloven hoofs.

          Obsession about sexual orientation is a devilish distraction, no one is having marital relations in the next world and we will all love our spiritual siblings the same whatever their ‘of this world’ such things might have been.

          Its a spiritual non-issue for those with the Spirit and followers of Christ.

          • CbinJ

            Galatians 3:28 is one of my absolute favorite verses. Tell me how you can justify twisting “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Christ Jesus” to mean that God endorses same-sex “marriage”. Being a Jew, a Gentile, a slave, a freeman, a man, or a woman has nothing to do with one’s behavior, but one’s status in the world. Neither does this verse nullify manhood or womanhood because the New Testament continually makes distinctions between men and women regarding roles in the Church, in marriage, and etc.

            You are right that obsession with sexual orientation is a devilish distraction. People with homosexual attractions need to lay down their temptations to do evil and pick up their crosses. Society needs to simply say “No” to LGBT activists and we can all get on with our lives.

          • Gal 5:22-23

            Behavior? What behavior are you talking about? There is no behavior same-sex married couples engage in that many many times more mixed married couples don’t also.

            And since 3:28 was used as the justification for marrying those between classes against Roman law and lead to the martyring of several of the saints lumped under the name ‘Valentine’. that passage most certainly does apply to marriage. And that Paul was talking to the people of that time is well known – it was actually very progressive for that time, but the apostolic right to bind and loosen allows those things that are merely of this world alone to be, well, bond or loosened. We have bound the traditions of when a person is suitable for marriage, and we have loosened the old terms of requiring particular sexes all as Scripture clearly states and allows.

            People of all kinds need to lay down their temptations to unrighteously judgement and accept those with the Spirit for themselves. Again, there is no marry or marriage in the next world, fretting about this is like worrying about two fiber cloth. Arguing about this is like worrying about what holidays to celebrate or what meats are fit to eat.

            Of course if a denomination or sect wants to limit themselves in ways they don’t have to like the Amish, or Roman Catholics, they can. But they shouldn’t fall into the trap of thinking they are ‘right’ and everyone else is ‘wrong’. My denomination can justify what it holds by Scripture as I have done and if you don’t want to agree that’s fine – I’m more than happy to let Christ at the Throne be the final arbitrator. Those without love, who produce bitter fruits with their bitter tongues, reviling others are the ones at risk.

          • CbinJ

            Well, I don’t belong to any denomination, I belong only to Truth and consistency. The point of Galatians 3:28 is in the verse. There is no need for any deep interpretation. There is no hidden meaning. In context, Paul is talking to the Galatians about salvation through Christ being the only way because sin separates us from God. The Law could not prevent man from sinning nor could it bring salvation. Since Christ came, Jews and Gentiles, Slaves and Freemen, and Men and Women are all one (as in they are welcome into the Church) providing that they have repented of their sin and dedicated their lives to following Christ. If you read So, one who is proudly partaking in sinful behavior like sodomy and lust is unrepentant and hence not dedicated to Christ. Again, it’s very basic stuff. If you read the entire chapter, there is no mention of marriage or sexuality.

          • Gal 5:22-23

            Of course there is no hidden meaning, it’s right there, those pairs of qualities are irrelevant in and to the body of Christ. That is the simple Truth.

            And equally true is there is an apostolic ability to bind and loosen. How many denominations allow divorced and remarried members though Christ said that was adultery? How many have members that support usery even though Christ said we should give without thought of compensation? Heroine of the ‘Lord Lord’ criers last year was a twice oath breaker who belongs to a church that says there is no Trinity and anyone else baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit hasn’t really been baptized at all.

            Like it or not the depth and breadth of Christian thought includes many things that not all agree on and it will be God that judges not us.

            Do they love and accept Christ as their Lord? Do they strive to love and forgive? Do they repent all lost opportunities to live and forgive more perfectly – the heart of failing God, i.e. sin? Then righteous judgement is done – the rest is up to God.

            God bless.

          • CbinJ

            Notice, in your entire statement, you avoid one key concept: evil. Christianity need not exist if there were not unholiness and wickedness that needed to be dealt with by God. “Lost opportunities to love and forgive more perfectly” were not the crimes many a people were wiped off the earth for in the Old Testament. Christ wasn’t tortured and killed because people don’t “love and forgive more perfectly”. He was tortured and killed because we all have the potential–if not presence–of utter wretchedness in our hearts, minds, and souls. Don’t be deceived into thinking evil doesn’t exist and heretical theology doesn’t lead people closer to it.

          • Gal 5:22-23

            what in the world do you think evil is but not loving and forgiving perfectly? Evil is the absence of the light not a thing unto itself.

            All the law stems from love, all evil – all sin – is failure in love.

          • CbinJ

            The entirety of the Book of Romans is apt here. Specifically, Romans 7 & 8. Evil is an active force within the world working through separate entities. Sin is not merely an absence of love in a concrete sense.

            The law was made in by a God with a Loving Nature and a Good Nature, but it also stems from His Logic. Inherent in the Law is Good which means there is also Evil. Love is Good, but Love is not the absolute opposite of Evil definitionally. In Christianity, Evil is being in opposition to God’s Will and Design, etc.

          • Gal 5:22-23

            It talks about those that actively work against love from angels, governments, people of influence. Of course there are ideas, political systems and principalities that operate without love, but they are are wrong because they are incompatible with it.

            Evil is opposition to God’s Will and Design

            I agree and His Will and Design is Love as are His commandments for us. Giving a name to the absence of love is short hand. The tiniest light dispels darkness because one exists and the other just a name for light’s absence.

          • Gregory Peterson

            You’re using the same self-privileging reading of Galatians 3:28 that an earlier generation of conservative Evangelical had used to justify race chattel slavery and to condemn those sinful abolitionists who need to repent of their evil behavior towards real Bible believing Christians.

          • CbinJ

            It is a privilege to know that God accepts Jews and Gentiles, Slaves and Freemen, Men and Women equally to come into His Kingdom. Like I said it’s one of my favorite Bible verses.

            If your so obsessed with the topic, why don’t you read what the Bible has to say about slavery and then study the cultural and historical contexts of slavery in ancient times.

            The abolition movement was started and led by Christians. The Christian West is the only civilization to end slavery.

          • Gregory Peterson

            It is true that the abolitionist movement was started and lead by Christians. However, Quakers were not considered to be “real” Christians by the proslavery Evangelicals. Neither were the Unitarian abolitionists.

            In this country, unlike with other countries that I can think of, Christian or not, it took a catastrophic and horrendous Civil War to end slavery…and my Union veteran great grandfather was part of it.

            Slavery was then replaced in the Bible Belt by the terrorist Jim Crow regime, which was still going strong when I was young. It was extremist Evangelicals who had turned Birmingham, Alabama into “Bombingham.”

            The Evangelicals in the Abolitionist movement were accused by the proslavery “real” Evangelicals of not being Bible Believers, of claiming that they knew better than God. of rewriting the Bible.

            “If your so obsessed with the topic, why don’t you read what the Bible has to say about slavery and then study the cultural and historical contexts of slavery in ancient times.”

            I have. Biblical slavery was little different in its basic form than American slavery, which was what the proslavery Evangelicals claimed.

            To put it very succinctly:

            Jews could be indentured servants but not chattel slaves. Whites could be indentured servants but not chattel slaves.

            Non-Jews could be chattel slaves and their descendants were inheritable property, and they could be treated more harshly than Jews. Non-whites could be chattel slaves and their descendants were inheritable property, and they could be treated more harshly than whites.

          • CbinJ

            No need to lecture me, I have a degree in history in which I studied the American colonial slave trade. I also have done much research on ancient world slavery and the contexts of the Biblcal passages and theological ramifications. Your lies about and hatred of Evangelicals is astounding. The idea that a culture awash in Christianity would have evil men using it as justification for slavery is the same as political leftists using the government (once a conservative institution) to justify all of their evil agendas. I will not be responding to anymore of your comments because you are ignorant, illogical, hateful, and off-topic from the original article.

          • Gregory Peterson

            I know what reliable sources are. You obviously do not.

            The Belt was awash in Christianity…yet the main cultural production of the South from the 1830’s to the end of the Civil War was in proslavery propganda. (When Slavery Was Called Freedom: Evangelicalism, Proslavery, and the Causes of the Civil War; by John Patrick Daly; University Press of Kentucky 2002.)

            I’m talking about the period of time between the 1830’s and the end of the Civil War, which was a very different time than in colonial times. (I reread the now classic ‘White over Black: American Attitudes Toward the Negro, 1550-1812; by Winthrop Jordan a couple of years ago.)

            The British, which has been so instrumental in establishing the slave trade in the colonial era, had become the enemy of slave trading and severely constrained the trade in enslaved Africans to the Americas.

            But that didn’t really effect the United States, with our internal slave trade that couldn’t be touched by the British Navy.

            There was a growing antipathy towards slavery (and abolitionists) as the Enlightenment had developed, but after 1830, in the Bible Belt anyway, that all changed. Slavery began to be touted as beneficial to both enslaved people, their masters to society, one of God’s more beneficent Laws. Proslavery apologetic became more…well…like anti-Gay apologetic today.

          • Dean Bruckner

            Evangelicals in Britain ended slavery, and you are saying the Evangelicals in the southern U.S. preserved slavery. How can this be? Which is it? You aren’t cherry picking, are you?

          • Gregory Peterson

            Well, some group in the antebellum Bible Belt was trying to preserve slavery, and it wasn’t godless liberals.

            It was Southern Baptists, Southern Methodists, Southern Presbyterians, Southern Episcopalians. In other words, Evangelicals. Of course there were Northern “Bible Believers” as well, especially by those with Southern business associations..

            American Evangelicalism was a broad movement of white people…almost all of them racist in various degrees. In the 1840’s, the movement decisively split into pro-slavery Evangelicals and Evangelicals with an antipathy towards slavery…and both of them had an antipathy to abolitionists…most of whom were also racists.

            We shouldn’t forget that it was a prominent leader in the Great Awakening, George Whitefield, who was also a key figure in legalizing slavery in Georgia.

            English Evangelicals…and Unitarians and deists such as Charles Darwin’s grandfathers (who were prominent anti-slavery activists)… joined the Quakers who had more or less founded the abolitionist movement, into a coalition to end the slave trade, and then slavery in the British Empire.

            Charles Darwin’s grandfather, Josiah Wedgwood, had commissioned the famous Anti-slavery Medallion.

        • Crimsonjefri

          Can someone be a “child molesting Christian”? A “Rapists Christian”? A Thieving Christian? You can’t tag Christian onto anything you please……….there is a standard and it’s a standard of Holiness and that is what God requires……Not self righteousness or “holier than thou” but true holiness in the reverence of God. Sure we all make mistakes and sin sometimes but we as believers no longer live a lifestyle of sin…….if that wasn’t possible then why did Jesus tell the woman caught in the act of Adultery……”neither do I condemn you, go now leave your life of sin”.

      • Jeanette Victoria ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

        You can block him now and then you don’t have to read his screed!

    • CbinJ

      Maybe you should read Dr. Brown’s book, “Can You be Gay and Christian?”

      • Crimsonjefri

        May be you should read God’s article in Romans, 1 Corinthians, 1 Timothy then you’ll see that your assertion regarding if you can be gay and christian is wrong……Just sayin

        • CbinJ

          What is my assertion? Tell me, because I never implied a position in my comment to Gary, I implied that I know Dr. Brown’s position and Gary has it wrong.

        • Gregory Peterson

          Maybe you should read about the historical contexts of biblical times, and read holy scripture in the light given from a proper understanding of the Golden Rule.

      • Gary

        Brown said it in the title to this article.

        • CbinJ

          The title does not represent the content of the article. I was going to pull quotes for you, but I can’t copy and paste three-fourths of the article. I have listened to Dr. Brown’s Line of Fire Radio Show for years and know his theological position on the matter. While it is too broad to say that a “gay” person can’t be a Christian, it is clear to any Bible-believing Christian that anyone living in unrepentant and unabashed sin and defining themselves by sin is not in relationship with Christ.

          • Gary

            For someone who writes for a living, Brown should know to be specific with the words he uses. The title to this article definitely infers that Brown thinks one can be both homosexual, and a Christian.

          • CbinJ

            Well, it depends what you mean by a “gay Christian”. There are many people who define themselves that way while also denouncing their own homosexual attractions as sinful in order that they can reach the gay community for Christ–i.e. they take the “LGB” labels on in order to get an in with people they are trying to reach. (There are also some Christians who struggle with homosexual attractions and refuse the “LGB” label.) Others call themselves gay Christians because they think they can be both gay and Christian. I’m sure the title was just meant to draw readers of the latter group in hopes that they get to the meat of the article and realize that being unrepentantly gay and a Christian is contradictory.

          • Bryan

            I believe titles to articles are more the domain of the publisher of the article. Stream could put “open letter to a gay christian” and another source could title the article “open letter to isaac” and the content would be the same in both articles even if the title was different.

          • Gregory Peterson

            Dr.Brown is a master of condescending hate propaganda. You’re confusing his manipulative rhetorical devise as being what he actually thinks. He actually agrees with you.

          • Gregory Peterson

            Why are you sounding so much like some racist from back when I was young, ranting about interracial couples? (They also disparaged interracial couples as “living in unrepentant and unabashed sin and defining themselves by sin…” and had dozens of alleged proof texts from inerrant scripture they claimed as proof that God hated race mixing.)

            Has no conservative Evangelical ever studied the backlash to the Civil Rights Movement, which after all happened within living memory? (And, which is well documented with original sources and by written about by respected scholars.)

            Or, is there some sort of dreadful and contagious ‘Selective Bible Belt Amnesia’ that causes conservative Evangelicals to forget what happened in the fairly recent past, thereby endlessly recycling the same racist-like conceits, similar arguments, the hermeneutic of privilege, “proot text” clobber verse abuse, same political tactics, same legal arguments that were used in the “Southern Manifesto,” against whatever minority group is perceived to be be challenging unearned heterosexual conservative Christian male privilege?

          • CbinJ

            Misinterpretation by fallible people doesn’t negate the Truth of the Gospel which is “Repent of your Sins by accepting the sacrifice of God’s Son on your behalf and following Him with your life”.

            Conservative Evangelicals certainly study the Civil Rights Movement because it’s their history; they were the leaders of it.

            And question? Do I still have unearned heterosexual conservative Christian male privilege if I’m a gender identity disorder riddle Agnosticish Jewish/Christian female from the northeast?

          • Gregory Peterson

            Talk about cultural appropriation. Conservative Evangelicals were the ones voting for still notorious racist government officials. They were the ones who supported the white Citizens’ Councils and similar racist organizations. They were the ones spitting on Black children integrating schools.

            For instance, Jerry Falwell, if memory serves, was the chaplain for his local chapter of the Defenders of State Sovereignty and Individual Liberties.

            W. A. Criswell gave the backlash against “Brown v Virginia’ a big boost with his Feb. 21, 1956, W. A. segregationist speech to the South Carolina Baptist evangelism conference.

            (Which inadvertently revealed to America that Billy Graham belonged to that then segregated church lead by a then outspoken racist. Rev.Graham (who founded the sotto voce racist Christianity Today with his racist father in law and J. Howard Pew in that year) wanly distanced himself with: “My Pastor and I have never seen eye to eye on the race question.”

            He claimed that the National Council of Churches, which supported integration, and the NAACP “are just as blasphemous and unbiblical as they can be.”

            Governor George Bell Timmerman, Jr. also a Southern Baptist, so loved the speech that he had Rev. Criswell repeat it to the SC state legislature, which predictably ate it up. (for starts on that, search for ‘Never Had I Been So Blind”: W. A. Criswell’s “Change” on Racial Segregation’ by Curtis W. Freeman.)

            Yes, they later repented after the success of the Civil Rights Movement, but they didn’t actually learn anything. They didn’t change their white theology…they merely whitewashed it.

            They had to do something or be left behind, more and more ignored and scorned…and being out of a spotlight was worse for them than integration.

    • Jim Walker

      I don’t think that’s what he meant.

      There is no miracle drug that you can consume at the day you accept our Lord Jesus and change from gay to straight.

      It will always be a work in progress, all of us included.

      However, by acknowledging our sin and come to terms with it and pray for God’s strength to sustain us from sinning is the correct attitude to receive God’s Grace.

      Remember Romans 5:8.
      but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”

  • Jeanette Victoria ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

    Dr Brown is so reasonable and even handed..and yet many (thankfully not all) who identify as LGBT see even handed dialog as hate. How sad. My best friend in the 70’s was a homosexual, I was a Christian we disagreed on many things but we also got along. Now sadly that seem impossible, Am the only who as noticed that homosexual are far more unhappy now than they were befroe all this push for rights. My friend never once saw himself as a victim.

    • Gary

      If your best friend was a homosexual, that would mean you were a lousy Christian. Or a fake Christian. Homosexuals will not tolerate real Christians.

    • petej

      Is he even handed? I don’t think so. He wrongly associates gay people with sin, continually perpetuates the incredibly damaging myth that it is a choice to be gay and says all kinds of negative things. His “even handedness” is limited to feeling bad for people who are gay, but he never seems to do anything for them or to make their lives better.

      The guy from duck dynasty got himself into trouble recently for saying that black people were happier as slaves. Did you really mean that gay people were happier when they could lose their home, their job, not have hospital visiting rights etc (still the case in some places) and be beaten up by the police simply because they had a character trait that society considered less worth?

      • CbinJ

        It’s never wrong to associate people with sin: for all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God.

        • archangelmike82

          I agree, but when you associate a particular group as being particularly sinful that is something quite different…as is blaming them for something they did not choose and cannot change

          • Gary

            Behavior is always a choice. People are not robots.

          • Gregory Peterson

            So…you chose your sexual orientation and gender identity, and the behaviors that come with those?

            Like leaving the toilet seat up? (I’m making a joke, here.)

          • Gary

            Oh. Then you do believe people are robots who have no control over their own behavior. If that be the case, why are you complaining about how other people treat you????? They don’t have any choice. But, if we are all robots, then you have no choice in making your complaints.

          • Gregory Peterson

            Of course when I was young, conservative Evangelicals also associated Blackness with sin. Black people could do good things, you see, but not actually BE good people. That was because of some highly white-privileging claim that the son of Noah ancestor to Black people had been cursed for some dreadful sin (as near as I can tell, it was against patriarchy).

            As opposed to the son of Noah ancestor of Europeans, Japheth, who had been blessed, you see.

            Thus, God didn’t want you to associate with Black people because of their alleged propensity towards sin. Aside from the “Curse of Ham’s son Canaan,” conservative Evangelicals were fond of using Acts 17:26 to justify segregation.

            The co-founder of Christianity Today, Billy Graham’s father in law, Dr. L. Nelson Bell, was especially fond of that verse, even using it, if memory from my research on the backlash to the Civil Rights Movement serves, in a LIFE Magazine round-table on “race.” (I can’t remember there being a Black person at that table.)

          • CbinJ

            Not sure why I never received a notification for your comment. As I said in a comment above, it’s about a lifestyle of unrepentance. Christianity is all about choice and change. You can choose to be with Him or against Him. He changes you, so you can make that chioce to accept that salvation and then enter into relationship which changes you further.

            Nobody really gets to choose what they struggle with (even as bad decisions may have led them into those trials). A lack of control over what temptations you face does not absolve you of the consequences and blame for sin.

  • Alex P

    FWIW, one of the most-read Christian authors ever (C. S. Lewis) had a lifelong friendship with a man that we now know was homosexual (Arthur Greeves), and that Greeves was a Christian long before Lewis was. Despite possessing hundreds of the letters that passed between them (published in book form as They Stand Together), none of the letters ever mention sexual issues, so we have no way of knowing if Greeves ever acted on his attraction, if he and Lewis ever discussed it face to face, or whether Greeves was comfortable with Lewis’s references to homosexuality in his writings (Lewis took the traditional view, needless to say). Lewis and Greeves had one advantage that we 21st-century Christians do not possess: they lived in a “dont ask, don’t tell” age, when people really were very protective of their privacy, and you could be longtime friends with a person and still be ignorant of many aspects of their lives. The problem Christians today face is that homosexuals are very happy to be “out” and that is unlikely to change any time soon, if ever. Arthur Greeves was like most homosexuals of his time, a man who claimed to be Christian but was in no position to say “I’m Christian AND homosexual too – you got a problem with that?” Greeves and Lewis had no concept of a “gay identity,” or that a homosexual would ever say “This is who I am, you must accept me or you’re a bigot.” In their world, a churchgoing Christian might have some sexual flings that he knew to be sinful, but those were just moral lapses for which he would ask God for forgiveness. It’s an entirely different situation now, with “pride” being a key word.

    • Gregory Peterson

      So in other words, you want minority people to be invisible and silent, and thereby being complicit in their own oppression.

      And you think that even after the Civil Rights Movement?

      We now know that a sexual orientation is simple a given. A minority sexual orientation is not a moral lapse for which you need to ask God for forgiveness. It’s not a mental illness for which you need treatment. It’s not a weakness or an excess. There is now no moral justification to demand that a minority sexual orientation be kept hidden any more than, or any less than, for a majority sexual orientation.

      LGBT people usually don’t self-identify as a “homosexual.” as no self-respecting minority person anymore will allow people of obvious ill will to label and define them.

  • azbuckeye

    Agreed, Paul tells Christians not to associate with Christians who continue to live at odds with God. The apostles wrote that re-marriage is sin, and that over-consumption vis-a-vis our neighbors (as Jesus defined neighbors) is sin. They said lust is a sin. Unless we get to pick which lifestyle sins are the ones that really matter, or unless we get to exclude those sins that many of our peers enjoy, then our fellowship would drop substantially. Is there a scriptural basis for selecting just one type of sinner to shun?

    • CbinJ

      The key is in what you said, “lifestyle”. There is a difference between giving into temptation from time to time and a lifestyle of unrepentance. I’m no expert, but it seems to me if a church is preaching, Truth unrepentant sinners would either get convicted and repent or shun themselves to ignore the conviction they feel. I think you’d be hard pressed to find someone so unrepentant worthy of shunning that they would want to remain amongst Christians in a positive and honest purposeful capacity. And those who hide deep lifestyle sins and maybe are in leadership positions–God exposes those people eventually. And those who are deceived into sin–God will help them see the Truth if they are open to it.

      The reason homosexuality is usually singled out beyond the political ramifications of the LGBT activism, is that it is in contrast with most other sins. For example, overconsumption and remarriage (adultery) are merely perversions of neutral/ good things i.e. eating/ owning material property and man/woman marriage whereas homosexuality is unnatural and sinful even in its basic structure. (Although, I have been in favor of conservatives adding to their arguments that homosexuality (the culture of sexual promiscuity) ruins cultural understanding of functional same-sex friendships even moreso than man/woman marriage.) Then, of course, we have the element that the homosexual lifestyle automatically is associated with a variety of other sins from drug use to pride to rebellion against society and conditions from mental illness to AIDS. LGBT has a whole culture and identity movement surrounding it. When you think about so does every other sin–the Left represents all of those special interests in politics. However, if one is gay they often want to identify with the LGBT community. A person who gets remarried or over-consumes or steals is not likely to find or even thinks about wanting to find a sociopolitical group to celebrate their sin with. Most sinners are not consciously wrapping their entire identity in their sin and then proudly fighting the world to change the definitions of such fundamental things that effect every human like gender and marriage.

      • Gregory Peterson

        Disparaging minority adult minority relationships as as “sinful” has been done before in this country…and that accusation is something of which I’ve been accused of doing way back when I was a young man.

        Here you are creating and dumping heaping piles of minority stress on others, then using the consequences of your own behavior to justify your own dangerous to others behavior. You’re all but demanding that young sexual minority people hate themselves, that society hate them, that God hate them…that they might as well live fast and die young, because that’s the only “lifestyle” available to them.

        That, or live like some ascetic, body denying Gnostic heretic just to please your sense that minority people should be invisible, silent, miserable, loveless if they should challenge your sense of a divine entitlement to unearned privilege..

        You don’t think that Evangelical segregationists didn’t use that same tactic of creating minority stress and then using the consequences of that heavy burden to justify segregation and laws against the “unnatural sin of miscegenation?”

        • Gary

          Or, they could refuse to call themselves homosexuals and live as heterosexuals. Even if they were celibate. People choose to behave as homosexuals. They are not robots who cannot control their behavior.

          • Gregory Peterson

            “They” already refuse to identify as “homosexuals.” Why would you want to allow people of obvious ill will to label and define you?

            You don’t really understand the concept of “personal integrity,” do you?

          • Gary

            All right. Those who choose to identify as lgbtq will have to accept the consequences of doing that.

          • CleanYourHouse

            Gary, it seems you don’t understand how things work. Nobody is CHOOSING to be gay. That is how they were born. Why would anyone choose to be ostracized all of their life?

          • Gary

            CYH, You are another one who believes everyone is a robot and has no control over their behavior. Then I was born anti-homosexual. I have no control over it. Is that how things work?

        • CbinJ

          First, I was answering a question from a believer regarding how theologically we can discern who we should keep company with verses who must be cast out from the church and our company based upon 1 Corinthians 5:11-13 and 2 Corinthians 6:14 specifically. You seemed to have picked out the word lifestyle and developed an argument deviod of context–that context being “lifestyle of unrepentance”.

          Second, you accuse me of all kinds of motivations, actions, and beliefs without any kind of foundation. Certainly, exalting me in a position of power over other people’s emotions–a power I don’t possess. (I can’t make anybody feel anything.) Nor can I “heap piles of miniority stress on others”–whatever that means. I’m curious about what dangerous behaviors you think I’m trying to justify considering you don’t know me nor my behaviors?

          Third, correct me if I’m wrong, but I imply you consider yourself a Christian? Tell me what is most basic element of Christianity, i.e. how, in your opinion does one become a Christian? A third question which you can answer despite you answer to the first, do you want people to feel maximum happiness and have the best life possible?

  • KnottyBowline

    Here is a place gay Christians can get real help and support and continue to develop their relationship with God. Gaychristian . Net

    • Brad F

      Not Christian at all.

      Flagged.

      • Gal 5:22-23

        You get to decide what is and isn’t Christian? There are many denominations of Christians that disagree with your point of view. Or is this blog only for certain denominations of Christians?

        • Crimsonjefri

          The Bible decides who is a real Christian and those that are false believers……

          9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous 2 will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who practice homosexuality,10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

          These people here did not remain greedy,idolaters,thieves, homosexual, sexually immoral, drunkards…etc after coming to Christ…..they were changed forever…..

          • Gal 5:22-23

            You have a bad translation – that is talking about sexual immorality – with men or women, prostitution – with men or women, adultery – with men or women. There was no word for homosexuality in general in greek – your translator mess it up.

            What we do have is the apostolic right to ‘bind and loosen’ to make things in earth and heaven alike within the limits of Scripture.

            Things can change – Phillip allowed the Ethiopian eunuch in to the body of Christ for though Deuteronomy excluded them, Isaiah gave them opportunity to join and Phillip took the path of inclusion, to include the previously outcast.

            Similarly Christians can allow those in the body of Christ regardless of ‘male or female’ even including marriage. Those without the Spirit might still follow the old ways but those with it don’t.

            There are many who say ‘Lord Lord’ but their lack of love and the Spirit reveals their fruit as bitter and that is how they are know.

            So, I agree – the Bible does identify those who are ‘real’ Christians and those who aren’t and those think gay people can’t be in the body and filled with Spirit are the ones most likely on that path. But the gift of Grace is beyond our imagination – they might still make the grade if they would drop the unrighteous judgment and hatred and fill their hearts with the Spirit and love.

          • CbinJ

            Any sexual relations outside of man/ woman or lust dwelled upon in the heart is sin. Unrepentant sin separates man from God. Plain and simple. Other than that your twisting of scripture is egregious. Go read some reliable commentaries if you have such trouble discerning coherent theology and basic meanings from the text alone. I resolved your eunuch conundrum with one minute of research.

          • Gal 5:22-23

            And to Christians a married couple isn’t lusting no matter their male or female.

            And that a direct and clear use of Scripture to foster love and inclusion sounds twisted to you explains much to me. And commentaries are written by men – who can be just as mistaken as us – not God.

            I would like to hear what your commentary says about the Ethiopian eunuch, the first gentile converted to Christianity documented in the New Testament. That Phillip had to reconcile Deuteronomy’s proscription is a given. That he did so because Isaiah’s declaration of how Christians would treat the outcast is also a given. That is the standard that Christians of my denomination to follow when looking at married couples regardless of the sexes.

            No conundrum – I’m not confused about the story of the Ethiopian eunuch’s clear and simple message of inclusion and how it relates to couples regardless of ‘male or female’. What do you see that in anyway affects that?

          • Gregory Peterson

            Yes..the first gentile convert was a sexual minority not known for being the procreating kind, wasn’t he?

          • Gary

            Eunuch is not a term for homosexual. He was still a eunuch after his conversion.

          • Crimsonjefri

            Absolutely right Gary….a eunuch is a man with no balls……

          • Gregory Peterson

            Did I say that he was a “homosexual?” I did not. I said that he was sexual minority, which he was.

            Judging from all of the Gay Christians who have tried so hard to not be a “homosexual,” even if he were what you thought I wrote, he would have remained one.

            Your sexual orientation is a given. Enjoy it, whatever it is, lovingly and responsibly.

          • Gary

            Christianity and homosexuality are irreconcilable. It is impossible to be homosexual and Christian.

          • Gregory Peterson

            Conservative Evangelicals back when I was young said that you couldn’t be an integrationist and a Christian.

            Why, again, am I suppose to respect people who write like racists about a different, though overlapping, multi-ethnic minority group?

          • Gary

            Who is asking for your respect? Not me.

          • CFitzRN

            It is most definitely possible to be homosexual and Christian. A homosexual has the choice to live a celibate life and attain great holiness. I would say scripture is clear that one cannot be an unrepentant or practicing homosexual and a Christian simultaneously, just as it is impossible to be an unrepentant, practicing fornicator, or adulterer, etc., and be a Christian.

          • Gregory Peterson

            Jesus wasn’t A Christian. Jesus was THE Christ.

            As for your shameful abuse of clobber verses to privilege yourself at the expense of your neighbor…do read the next chapter.

          • Gary

            The “clobber verses” are doing what God designed for them to do. And that is bad news for you sodomites.

          • Gregory Peterson

            A clobber verse exists to justify the state of unearned privilege of the user, and to create a dangerous climate of animus for the reviled and oppressed.

            Which is why they’ve been a favorite tool of conservative Evangelicals since the 1830’s, when they began to paint slavery as a blessing for slave and slave master alike. For starters, see the award winning (Honorable Mention, 2003 Seaborg Award for Civil War Scholarship) book by John Patrick Daly, “When Slavery Was Called Freedom: Evangelicalism, Proslavery, and the Causes of the Civil War.”

            As well as most any Evangelicals antebellum pro-slavery apologetic writer, such as the Rev. Thornton Stringfellow.

          • Gary

            The verses are in the Bible and they say what they say. If you don’t like it, I guess YOU can ignore them, or pretend they mean something other than what they say. Just don’t expect everyone to do that.

          • Crimsonjefri

            Somebody got their panties in a wod……..sorry if the Word of God offends but it’s either obey the word or not…….if you choose to not obey then you will suffer the consequences….. just as I if I choose to disobey……..just sayin

          • Gregory Peterson

            You should like every proslavery and segregationist Evangelical I’ve ever heard or read. And, at my age, I’ve heard from many and have read many more, as I’ve studied proslavery Evangelicals as well as the backlash against the Civil Rights Movement.

          • Crimsonjefri

            You have lost your mind…………who said anything about slavery?? You are obviously mentally deranged and have absolutely nothing worthwhile to offer to this discussion. You need help!! Go lie down somewhere and try not to harm yourself!!

        • eliasasm

          Sorry, but homosexuals do NOT decide who is Christian. The Bible is clear that YOU are excluded.

          • Gal 5:22-23

            And since the Bible said that for those in the body of Christ there is no difference between male and female all that statement does is help clearly identify who are the ones truly excluded.

            Christians are to gather the outcast just as Phillip did and the denominations that understand and live that are those truly Christian.

          • eliasasm

            You are a waste of time. The New Testament is against your vile lifestyle. Move on, there are other religions that gladly condone your sexual perversion.

          • Gal 5:22-23

            I guess you missed it – we have the apostolic right to ‘bind and loosen’ things on earth as they are in heaven, there is no marry or marriage in the next life, and for those actually in the body of Christ there is no difference between male or female, AND we have the new testament example that shows when Scripture seems to conflict a Christian goes with the way that is most inclusive.

            Far better there weren’t those who perverted the Love of God with their hatred and reviling of others – things that are barriers to entrance to heaven.

            But if you don’t want to waste your time neither will I – I dust my feet and will move on, not to the next town but to the new wonderful Disqus blocking feature.

      • KnottyBowline

        Says you.

  • Kathy Verbiest Baldock

    Reasoning abilities and empathy are not on the top of Brown’s skill set.

    Isaac was raised by parents in a Christian home. Brown was not.

    Isaac is bisexual and has personal understanding. Brown does not.

    Isaac is a licensed counselor. Brown is not.

    But, OF COURSE, Brown knows better. Or course.

    • CbinJ

      A list of logical fallacies. Do actually have something of substance to add to this comment section?

      • Kathy Verbiest Baldock

        WHAT? “logical fallacies”? I said what I wanted to.

        Engaging with hidden identities is mostly fruitless. I am not a coward — I post my name and use my real identity.

        • CbinJ

          Another logical fallacy–attacking me instead of engaging the argument. What difference would it make if I posted my name? I am just a regular person with an ordinary name and have no other social media accounts that use my name or face. I’m a 24 year old female. My screen name is my intials and “bin” which is phonetic Hebrew (according to Google) for “to discern”. Now can you answer the question about how Dr. Brown’s credentials prevent him from speaking about theological and cultural matters?

      • Gregory Peterson

        That’s a list of “logical fallacies?”

        Ms Verbiest Baldock wrote a list of bald faced facts comparing Isaac Archuleta credentials to write with authority with Dr. Brown’s relevant credentials.

        The individual entries can only be refuted with high reliably sourced corrections. Did Mr. Archuleta have two pastors for parents when he was growing up, or did he not? Was Dr. Brown raised in a non-Christian home, or were his parents Christians when he was growing up?

        Is Dr. Brown a bisexual like Mr. Archuleta, and therefor can speak with personal experience, or is Dr. Brown not bisexual? Is Dr. Brown a licensed counselor with similar academic credentials to Mr. Archuleta, or is Mr. Archuleta not as he claims?

    • Patmos

      Brown follows the word of God. You do not.

      I keep seeing the nonsense you post here, and wonder how you justify your compromise of belief when facing God and reading his word, then I conclude the only possible reality: that you do neither.

      • Kathy Verbiest Baldock

        Of course.

    • Dennis Velco

      Who let you out of your kennel, B?

      Take your sodomite religion and shove it.

      • archangelmike82

        Wow I can’t imagine why gay people think Christians hate them!

        • Gary

          Accepting homosexuals violates Biblical standards for Christian behavior.

          • Meredith Washburn

            But loving them with truth does not.

          • Gary

            If that is what you want, have at it.

    • Meredith Washburn

      Dr. Brown is asking the young man, how can we as Christians have comrade with the LGBT community because he does have compassion for them. Dr. Brown is asking because all Christians it seems are branded as homophobic because we stand with the word of God, but most Christians I believe are not homophobic but want to speak the truth in love. Look at what is happening in Florida, the churches have come together to support the families of loved ones who were killed. They are serving them by providing for their needs, like opening their churches for funeral services and providing for with other practical needs, this is loving and compassionate churches in action.

      • archangelmike82

        I think it is actually relatively straightforward for Christians who don’t think gay people should be in relationships – it is relatively straightforward to oppose that without hate or without stirring up hate. And most Christians manage it fine.

        Basically stop spreading untrue myths and stop making gay people the scape goats for the problems of society. Stop making out that Christians are under attack from gay people.

        Brown continually refers to “the gay lifestyle” yet he very clearly understands that being gay isn’t a choice or a behaviour – because he claims to weep for gay people who are unable to change their attractions. Why, if he loves the sinner, does he continually perpetuate this myth that orientation of attraction is something you can choose? Why, if he loves the sinner, has he written four columns since Orlando denouncing gay people and painting himself as their victim? Where is the column encouraging Christians to put more love in the world than they do hate?

      • Gregory Peterson

        If all Christians are being branded as “homophobic,” it’s Christians like Dr. Brown who giving people that impression.

        Of course, all Christians aren’t like Dr. Brown. If Dr. Brown actually does have compassion for LGBT people and not a compulsion for creating homophobic propaganda, he has an awful way of demonstrating it.

        “The churches have come together to support the families of loved ones who were killed.”

        Yes, indeed many have, which is commendable…and it also puts to lie the often smugly repeated and baseless claim that you can’t be Christian and Gay. An area atheist organization has also offered help for funeral services for those who weren’t believers. There is also a national government assistance fund for victims of violence.

        Almost half the victims were Puerto Rican, which creates additional costs in bringing families to Florida and/or relocating the remains of loved ones for burial with their ancestors.

        There was also a heartbreaking story of a father who refused to claim his son’s remains because his son was Gay.

        • Meredith Washburn

          There was also a heartbreaking story of a father who refused to claim his son’s remains because his son was Gay.

          I can’t even wrap my head around that. Heartbreaking indeed. I have adult kids there is nothing they could do that would ever make me turn my back on them.

          • Gregory Peterson

            I’ve read that, too, Such a family tragedy.

    • Gregory Peterson

      Yes indeed.. In religious-right world, apparently anyone can be an “expert” on most anything despite having no academic credentials in that field and with no history of relevant peer reviews studies and experience.

  • Patmos

    “As one who had been raised to embrace the “love the sin, hate the sinner” attitude”

    Pretty sure you got that backwards.

  • Patmos

    Grace is the open doorway to reconciliation with God, as believers are viewed as being righteous again by way of God placing the punishment for our sins on his son. That doorway then leads to the tools necessary to overcome the very cause of sin itself, that is the deceit of the enemy. This comes by the authority given to believers over the forces that lead people astray.

    That second part, the authority of the believer, is essential to Christianity and maintaining your status of righteousness and yet it gets nowhere near the sufficient amount of attention needed in modern Christianity. For if a believer does not grasp that reality of the authority given them, then they will only be susceptible to the forces that would have them waver in their faith and backslide into sin.

    Until the body of Christ takes hold of this essential tool of authority that is through the doorway of grace, and teaches others to do the same, there will only continue to be more and more Christians unable and ill equipped to deal with the deceit in this world.

    The key sword to swing regarding the believer’s authority:

    “And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
    And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
    Behold, I give unto you power (authority) to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
    Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.” -Luke 10:17-20

    There are other passages that demonstrate the authority of the believer, but none that express it as straightforward as this one.

    Believers learn this truth that is the authority you have in Jesus, take hold of it by faith, and you will begin to see and understand it’s implications.

  • Dean Bruckner

    “Many of us in the LGBT+ community are not bullying you into abandoning your religious values. We’re simply asking for camaraderie.”

    This desire to belong, to be at home, to be loved and accepted, is from God. It’s who he created humans to be. It unfortunately gets wrapped around the axles of sin, brokenness, sometimes abuse, and other things, and then only the grace and truth of Jesus can unwrap it and restore and heal it. But unwrap and restore and heal it is what Jesus was, and is, known for. It’s not for nothing that Jesus is known as the Friend of Sinners. I pray to God that we would be the same.

    Thanks for including that part, Dr. Brown!

    • Gary

      They want everyone to accept them as homosexuals. To approve of their homosexuality. God does not do that, and God does not permit Christians to do that either.

      • archangelmike82

        Whereas I’m sure that there are some LGB people who want Christian attitudes to change, I think most LGB people want the same rights as everyone else. They are looking for tolerance, not approval. Do you expect your Jewish friends and family to approve of the fact that you are attracted to women (well done!)?

        • Gary

          They have the same rights. Yet they are constantly complaining. Why is that?

          • Gregory Peterson

            Well…no, “they” don’t in many states (though that’s not true in my state.) They don’t have the same protections against discrimination like other minority groups, for starters.

            Being able to have legally recognized marriages is a fairly recent gain in equality under the law. Many state legislatures, in response, have been inundated with anti-Gay backlash bills that create minority stress and pervert “religious liberty” into a religious privilege to capriciously discriminate against (which also segregates) law abiding minority adults going about their lawful business, private and government, in the town square.

          • Gary

            The solution is for all of you to move to those states that want to protect you from discrimination.

          • Gregory Peterson

            So…whom else do you want to segregate?

          • Gary

            Wouldn’t you prefer to be around people who wanted you?

          • Gregory Peterson

            You mean like your family, the friends you grew up with, in the town in which you have always lived?

            Why should a law abiding minority adult have to move to another state in order to get hired for a job he or she is qualified to hold, rent or buy a place to life, shop for necessities…?

            Which, of course, that reminds me that the (white) Citizens’ Council back when I was growing up had used a lack of anti-discrimination law to make neighbors into economic refugees. You know, the minority adult ones, and their allies, who thought they had every right to vote in elections for their own governments.

          • Gary

            If you want to live in a state that offers no legal protection for you, maybe you can. But that does not obligate anyone to associate with you, either economically or socially.

          • Gregory Peterson

            So…you’re just fine with what the white Citizens’ Councils did?

          • Gary

            I’m fine with freedom of association. Those who want to associate with you are free to do that. And those who don’t should be free to make that choice.

          • Gregory Peterson

            So then, you’re fine with the tactics that were used by the white Citizens’ Councils.

            I figured as much.

          • Gary

            I don’t support laws that force people apart any more than I support laws that try to force people together, like the civil rights laws do.

          • Gregory Peterson

            You must really hate living after the Civil Rights Movement.

          • CFitzRN

            *who

          • Gregory Peterson

            I stand corrected. Thank you.

          • Dean Bruckner

            “Minority stress” is the social equivalent of drawing a foul. You use the courts to impose totalitarian cultural Marxism on society and then cry “They pushed me!!!” when people object and try to return society to a level of sanity and reality. So-called same s3x “marriage” is what belongs in quote marks, not religious liberty that is actually in the Constitution. Redefining marriage to liquidate the natural part of it–the obvious complementarity of man and woman, and the resulting birth and rearing of children–is SPECIAL rights, not equal rights. Redefining marriage to liquidate the permanent exclusivity of it–no s3x on the side, EVER, unlike in so-called gay “monogamish” unions–is SPECIAL rights, not equal rights. Bringing children into an environment hyper-charged with s3x morning, noon and night, to fulfill adult desires to show that this alternate lifestyle can have children, instead of self-sacrifice and a focus on what’s best for children–is SPECIAL rights, not equal rights. You lie.

          • CbinJ

            I gave you an upvote, but I just had to add an Amen. Also, to add that I’m pretty sure I’ve crossed paths with Gregory Peterson before; he’s a troll and you cannot reason with him. I’ve wasted tons of time trying (if I’m thinking of the right screen name). I don’t know the screen name because the moderators deleted his comments eventually.

          • Dean Bruckner

            Thanks! I am praying for him, but “straight is the gate, and narrow is the way, that leads to life, and only a few find it,” says Jesus. I pray that he will humble himself and repent. I earnestly hope that he is appointed to eternal life, and will believe. God created him with gifts and talents and infinite worth, but also with a choice to choose the way of the cross, like the rest of us, or not. I pray he does.

          • Dean Bruckner

            P.S. These are strong words, but true. Read Jepthah’s Daughters by Robert Oscar Lopez for the whole story. It’s sad that in our society that disagreement, more and more, does not result in more speech, but in silencing of speech. I pray that both sides will have the integrity to have a full and frank discussion; it’s the only way to find truth.

          • Gregory Peterson

            Again, disparaging minority relationships as just being about “s3x” has been done before. Having a mother who was accused by our neighbor of advocating for the “the unnatural sin of miscegenation” when I was young man, and having personally been accused of advocating for the “unnatural sin of homosexuality,” that’s something of which even I can attest.

            People who loudly and incessantly defame minority people, who have worked 24-7 to deny equality under the law for minority people, who have their own Christian TV networks and magazines like Christianity Today and WORLD…who have well known think tanks ever present in the media, who even have control over both houses of Congress…

            People who have all that media and political influence, are nevertheless like rare and fragile greenhouse flowers, unable to weather even the slightest whiff of outside criticism.

            Pobrecitos!

          • Dean Bruckner

            “People who have all that media and political influence, are nevertheless like rare and fragile greenhouse flowers, unable to weather even the slightest whiff of outside criticism.”

            Where is your self awareness? You are describing yourself. You already have equal rights, but no, that’s not enough. You want special rights, and let the rest of America die.

          • Gregory Peterson

            You already have equal rights, but no, that’s not enough. You want special rights, and let the rest of America die.

            You really can’t help recycling old racist accusations, can you? You don’t think they said the very same thing?

    • Wayne Cook

      Well said, Dean.

  • Gregory Peterson

    “First, how can we “build relational and religious paradigms free of hate” when you are branding our sacred convictions as hateful?”

    But what if those “sacred convictions” are, in fact, hateful and harmful to others? What if they are, in fact, self-privileging, arrogant conceits with a religious gloss, instead of “sacred convictions?”

    Not to mention that American conservative Evangelicals and other Protestants have gone down that same road before.

    • Gary

      God does not permit homosexual behavior for anyone. Not for me, and not for you. He is very much without discrimination in that.

      • Gregory Peterson

        I know that “Gary” and “God” are both short words that start with a “G,” but , that doesn’t mean that you speak as God.

        My Bible says `Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false testimony, Thou shalt not covet;’ and if there is any other command, in this word it is summed up, in this: `Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself;’ The love to the neighbor doth work no ill. The love therefore fulfills the Law. (revised YLT)

        We know from American history how toxic the “conservative” Evangelical/Protestant concept of “love” can be. It’s a “love” that has a long history of harming your minority neighbor. It’s a “love” that privileges yourself at the expense of your neighbor.It’s a “love that creates a poisonous climate of animus, of a calloused indifference to suffering.

        • Gary

          My Bible also says not to commit adultery. And not to commit fornication. That rules out all sexual behavior other than within marriage. And, my Bible also says that a marriage consists of a husband and a wife. I can’t find anywhere in the Bible that homosexuality is permitted.

          • Gregory Peterson

            “I can’t find anywhere in the Bible that homosexuality is permitted.”

            Could it be because “homosexuality” is a much abused, obsolete, Victorian-era, scientific/social/political construct with a lot of long discredited scientific baggage?

          • Gary

            There were homosexuals in Bible times. They are spoken about in the Bible. The term “homosexual” was not used, but the behavior goes way back in history.

          • Gregory Peterson

            There were not “homosexuals” in Bible times. Today’s mutually consensual, loving and egalitarian ideals in marriage was simply not present, even though there were loving couples.

            Marriages were often negotiated by fathers of children, who had very little say in those patriarchal times, when the head of the family had almost complete power over his household…which could include not only wife and children, but widowed and orphaned relatives and relatives of dead friends, free (more or less) employees, slaves, indentured servants, apprentices, various hangers on.

            The commandment to honor your father and your mother was correctly read by proslavery Evangelicals as being a biblical proof text for slavery.The “father” of a slave wasn’t his biological father, but the patriarch who owned him or her.

            Love and consent were not prerequisites for marriage, and marriage was different for various classes and ranks of people. Even a king might have to accept a wife for diplomatic purposes that he might not wished to add to his harem.

            Women were pretty much the property of their husbands, In the Jewish culture, a woman could not divorce her husband without his permission…which is still true in some Jewish sects today. (though of course, a woman in that sect can file for a divorce in her secular court, though she might well not wish to be cut off from her people.)

            Even in same-sex relationships of those times…somebody had to be “the woman,” passive, effeminate, totally subservient to the “real” man. (and yes, despite that huge imbalance in power, there were loving relationships. The story of the Centurion and his gravely ill, and beloved slave might be one of them.)

            A free man would never sleep with another free man, at least one of equal standing (or at least, would never admit it.)

            So while there was same-sex sexual relationships and same-sex relationships…they were not done by people living in the same social constructs.

            Not to mention that today, the only “homosexuals” are imaginary creatures existing only as gross stereotypes and scapegoats in the religious right’s fevered minds.

          • Gary

            In the Bible, a husband is always a man, and a wife is always a woman. Christians believe that God has prohibited all s-x except that between a man and his wife. The government recognizes “same-sex marriage”, but God does not.

          • Gregory Peterson

            Of course conservative American Christians in the Bible Belt, and at various times in the majority of states, didn’t allow certain heterosexual couples people from marry at all.

            Not to mention that the relationships of the slaves they owned could have no legal recognition.

            Consequently, anything that conservative American Christians have to say about marriage can be dismissed as just being about preserving their own unearned privilege at the expense of others….because that’s how they always views marriage.

          • brothergc

            good luck with that BS LMAF Your trying to challenge The written Word , won’t work here . what do you think you will acomplish ? True Chistians stand on the Word and what You think that is going to change just because You post on a christian blog ? Sounds like Your trying to justify Your views by any means possible , But at the end of the day The Word still says the same and if I have to choose between what the Word says and what any persons says , The Word allways wins

          • Gregory Peterson

            Of course that’s the same argument that proslavery Evangelicals used against the Abolitionists, and then segregationist Evangelicals used against integrationists.

            Why are moral people suppose to respect people who endlessly recycle racist arguments against this minority group and that?

            Judging from the widespread and growing acceptance of the marriage equality movement, moral people aren’t buying that shameful self privileging conceit any more.

          • Dean Bruckner

            “But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words.”

            How are your words above not described by the Apostle Peter here?

    • Diaris

      They’re hiring at Dollar General, in case you’re bored.

      • Gregory Peterson

        Fortunately, I’m a man of independent means.

        • Diaris

          Oh, BS.
          No one would ever believe you’re a man.

        • CFitzRN

          You’ve got some privilege working on your side, eh?

          • Gregory Peterson

            Yes, I do. I worked for 40 years and paid into my pension plan (still haven’t retired, though)…and white privilege helped make life easier for me, too.

    • CFitzRN

      So what you’re saying is, you get to define what is sacred and what is not. So… there is absolutely no point in furthering the discourse here. Right?

      • Gregory Peterson

        Conservative American Protestants have a long and very sordid history of rebranding white privilege as “sacred convictions.”

        Why am I suppose to pretend that history didn’t exist?

        • CFitzRN

          Again, I don’t care about history at the moment; I am discussing this topic. I am not a conservative American Protestant either, so again, your red herring means nothing to me. Why can’t you discuss the here and now without resorting to logical fallacies? Make your case based on this topic alone. If you can’t, and you have to resort to unrelated historical events, you don’t have a case.

          • Gregory Peterson

            Dr. Brown is a conservative Christian…and it is his essay that we’re discussing. He didn’t just create his apologetic from a new revelation delivered from on high. His hermeneutic of Christian privilege, however whitewashed, comes directly from earlier white conservative American Christians justifying slavery and white supremacy.

            So the past is very relevant here, as we’ve been down that road before, and yet, apparently by the way they recycle old racist arguments, political tactics, propaganda against different, multi-ethnic minority groups, some of us have otherwise learned little from our American journey.

  • Gregory Peterson

    “If we are 100 percent sure that the Bible condemns homosexual practice, how can we hold to that teaching without you feeling that we hate you?”

    When I was a young man, a great many people were 100 percent sure that the Bible condemned “the sin of miscegenation.” (I was in high school when the Supreme Court ruled on ‘Loving v Virginia.’)

    Why should I trust conservative Protestants who talk the same talk, use scripture in the same way that privileges themselves at the expense of others, use the same political arguments straight out of the “Southern Manifesto” written when I was growing up, and disparage minority relationships in the same way?

    I see no reason to for trust.

    • Gary

      Real Christians have no good will for you. We won’t pretend your sins are not sins. We won’t recognize same-sex “marriages” as being legitimate. We won’t do any of the things you want. And we don’t care if you don’t trust us. 🙂

      • Gregory Peterson

        If you’re an exemplar of “real” Christianity, one has a moral obligation to not be one.

        • Gary

          Prove it.

          • Gregory Peterson

            I would think that what I wrote would be self-evident.

          • Gary

            No.

        • Vanessa Benoit

          i like you gregory. You’re well argued.

          • brothergc

            well He can “argue ” till the cows come home still will not change not jot or tittle Of the written word. it is still sin

          • Vanessa Benoit

            Lol don’t you realize that christianity has been arguing with itself about what is sin for a couple of thousand years? And that the general consensus has changed from time to time? What’s it like to be that ignorant? It must be strange…

  • Gregory Peterson

    “…how can we have true fellowship with you if we believe you are living in sin?”

    Do not compare your tawdry sins with my love.

    Not to mention once again, that interracial couples were accused, by the great majority of conservative American Protestants, of living in sin, of living contrary to God’s will.

    So…how can we have true fellowship with a movement that endlessly recycles racism against a multi-ethnic minority group?

    • brothergc

      I see no where in The Word where ” interracial couples” are forbidden , but I do see where relations between 2 men or 2 women are forbidden , Your arguement is flawed

      • Gregory Peterson

        Go read what the conservative Evangelicals wrote when they were defending anti-miscegenation and segregation laws.

        For instance, there was Finis Dake’s ’30 Reasons for Segregation of Races Acts 17:26′ was only deleted from his popular ‘Dake Annotated Reference Bible’ in 2000, if memory serves. It now mostly circulates on white supremacist websites.

        As morally and intellectually bankrupt as he was and his pernicious legacy is, it does show that there are plenty of forbidden heterosexual relationships in the Bible which are no longer forbidden.

        Of course the reason you can’t find “interracial couples” in the Bible is that like “homosexuality,” “race” is a much abused, modern era social/”scientific” construct with a lot of long discredited scientific baggage.

        Both “race” and “homosexuality” didn’t exist. The ancients had their own much abused social constructs and hardly need us to impose more upon them, like Finis Dake did..

        • brothergc

          that is funny got anymore ? LMAF

  • Gregory Peterson

    “Since all of us are called to deny ourselves and take up the cross and follow Jesus, why not deny that aspect of yourself?”

    What a racist-like attitude. What you’re really demanding is that a minority person be silent, invisible, not challenging to your state of unearned privilege, and thereby complicit in their own oppression.

    • Jim Walker

      You are so left you can’t think right.
      The writer is asking all of us Christians to deny ourselves, not just LGBTQ.
      do read Galatians 2:20.

      • Gregory Peterson

        But the topic is LGBTQ people, and what sacrifice that is being demanded of them is different than any sacrifices that people like Dr. Brown are demanding of themselves.

        • brothergc

          no it is not Dr Brown , It is the Bible that He follows that is Your stumbling block , oh so go ahead , next You will try the racist card again as You have all over this forum

          • Gregory Peterson

            “…It is the Bible that He follows.”

            So said every Christian bigot…ever.

            So you’ve conferred divinity upon Dr. Brown by using “He?”

  • Gordon Court

    There is a big difference between being a habitual sinner who repents (turns away), and someone who continues in sin– after grace has been given to him. If homosexuality is a sin (which I believe it is; no less than the sexual inappropriateness seen in the breakdown of Lev. 18), then a sacrifice for sin is required. It is true that the blood of propitiation has been poured out in the person of the Christ. But, analogously, our hands are placed on His head while His throat is slit, when we repent. We cannot continue in perpetual sin, after truly acknowledging our state of depravity without Messiah. 1Ti 5:20,
    “Those who continue in sin, rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also will be fearful of sinning.” This verse is in stark contrast to the notion of embracing homosexuality, for missionary purposes. You can be a “Christian” gay person, only in the sense of Christianity being a generic religious identity. As an actual disciple of The Master, that would never have been an accepted behavior from His disciples. It does not make me homophobic to reject homosexuality as an accepted lifestyle within Christianity. Those who are in the world, are not under my judgement. But those who claim to be in the Body, do fall under judgement. The church has become a place fearful of judgement, and it’s justified under the guise of an evangelical greater good. Jesus aggressively dealt with abusive money-changers at His Father’s house. Which is the greater sin: improper conduct as regards money, or fashioning a false Creator, by effectively stripping Him of His Divine authority over His creation? Those who have tasted of the goodness of God, and continue in sin, mock the sacrifice of our Messiah. That is not acceptable, and is indefensible, no matter how the enemy progresses to redefine love.

    • Gregory Peterson

      For starters on Lev. 18, a gay man doesn’t lay with a man as with a woman. Lev. 18 has nothing to do with today’s mutually consenting, loving adult relationships.

      Lev. 18 prohibits rituals used in the Moloch fertility cult. Moloch does’t make people Gay. Moloch was an ancient and now defunct for an extremely long time, religious construct. There are no pagan temple prostitutes, male of female.

      Using Lev. 18 to create unjust and dangerous minority stress for others is reprehensible.

      “The church has become a place fearful of judgement…” The conservative Evangelical/Protestant church should indeed be fearful of the judgement of society. How many times can it go down the very same path of justifying oppressing one minority group after another before society finally turns away from it in disgust?

      • brothergc

        Realy ? well I just googled LEV 18 and this was copied from bible gateway

        21 “‘Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molek, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the Lord.

        22 “‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

        How you get anything else out of this is amazing to Me

        • Gregory Peterson

          The context, as Lev. 18 reveals in the beginning of the chapter is about not doing as the Egyptians and Canaanites do.

          Since they don’t do that anymore and haven’t for many, many centuries, why are conservative Evangelicals using verse 22 to justify Gay bashing?

          Because to conservative Protestants, Christianity is about preserving their tawdry fantasy of a divinely ordained entitlement to privilege and power at the expense of everyone else.

          • brothergc

            I did not write the scriptures , the bible does not support same se# atractions period

            1st cor 6
            “Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”

            Romans 1 26
            “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper.”

            Leviticus 18

            You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination

            say what you will but I live by 3 things
            Jesus is Lord
            The Word is absolute
            and The Word was sent to change My life
            At the end of the day between what You say and what the Word says . The word allways wins

          • Gregory Peterson

            “I did not write the scriptures , the bible does not support…”

            So said every pro-slavery, racist, xenophobic, sexist, and/or homophobic “Christian” ever…

            Got any more smug, cherry picked verses by carelessly mistranslated by bigots, hateful, defaming, greedy, arrogantly self-righteous, carefully ignorant, self-privileging “proof texts” to share?

          • brothergc

            I find the biggest biggots and haters are the ones the acuse others of it

          • Gregory Peterson

            Again…you don’t think I’m old enough to have heard that same argument from Evangelical segregationists? Pro-slavery Evangelicals even through it at the Abolitionists.

            And I’m suppose to be awed and contrite? I think not.

          • brothergc

            “Again…you don’t think I’m old enough to have heard that same argument ”
            Well from the name calling and childish actions You posted You act like a 5 year old
            But Thanks for showing Your true nature and thaks for showing exactly the kind of treatment one should expect from the LBGT Truth hurts doesn’t it

          • Gregory Peterson

            And your recycling of old racist conceits is showing me of what I can still expect from “conservative” Evangelicals.

          • brothergc

            oh now we are racist now are we ? If I posted a scripture about stealing or lying you would not have a problem with it , but if I post about being gay then Christians are haters, biggots , and racists .
            Typical LBGT logic ( or lack their of ) In the Bible all these are sin PERIOD . I am constantly amazed how much the LBGT fights to protect their sin instead of admit that it sin, and their is no line they will not cross to do so . You are the prime example

          • Gregory Peterson

            I didn’t say that you’re racist, I said that you’re recycling racist conceits. Recycling as in refurbishing something for a new purpose.

            It’s called “defamation” to group everyone in a minority group with thieves and liars…and it’s been done before. Racists also disparaged minority relationships as just being about sinful fornication.

          • brothergc

            look Gregory, I do not hate gays , I am not a biggot , I harbor no ill will towards anyone . But I am sick and tired of all the ” your a hater , your a biggot , BS by The LBGT . Now they are playing the racist card , BS . all because Christians will not change their God Given right to disagre with their lifestyle . They trash The Bible That We Love to fit their lifestyle and demand We accept that , No sir , not this Christian . The Christian bible IS about the Love a saviour , to deliver us from Sin , what ever that sin might be , not to deny that their is sin.
            That being said God loves all , the sinner and the saint
            My personal View is You have the God given Right to live as You see fit , but do not argue with what the Bible calls sin , try to erase it , rewrite it , trample on those who disagree . All You will acomplish when You do is tee off people
            You are on a christian Website so yea , Your going to get the Truth as Christians see it , We can read what the Word says . and if that offends You , then I suggest seeking out another place to post

          • Gregory Peterson

            Right…you talk like a racist about a minority group, use a racist hermeneutic that goes back to proslavery apologists, disparage minority relationships as just about sinful sexual lusts, stereotype a couple of hundred million people around the world as all having the same “lifestyle…and you’re not a bigot.No sir, not you.

            If you say so…

            Truth is truth. There is no special Christian Truth. Truth is not exclusive….it’s truth.

            And when it comes to knowing what truth looks like, “conservative” Evangelicals have a very poor track record.

          • brothergc

            And you talk like the typical LBGT tring to use the racist card when that dog will not hunt

          • Gregory Peterson

            Right…because minority people should be kept in their proper place…invisible, silent, powerless, and thereby complicit in their own oppression.

          • brothergc

            I dare an activist like you to demand this issue be put to a national referendum and we will vote on it and we’ll see how many people care about it. I warned people when the depraved like you crammed by judicial fiat legalizing “same s ex” marriage, it was only a matter of time before your feckless ilk would justify anything and everything under the guise of “feelings” and “rights.”

          • Gregory Peterson

            Channeling the “Southern Manifesto,” and the anti-miscegenation crowd, are we?

          • brothergc

            “Again…you don’t think I’m old enough to have heard that same argument ”
            From the post You posted with all the name calling Your acting Like a 5 Yr old . Thanks for Showing Your true colors You are a prime example of what Dr Brown writes about . And I could care less if Your awed or not. .

          • Gregory Peterson

            I wouldn’t be reminded of what the segregationist Evangelicals said (or what the proslavery Evangelicals wrote, for that matter) if the anti-Gay Evangelicals wouldn’t use the same arguments, accusations, “Massive Resistance” political tactics and criticisms of the Supreme Court lifted right out of the “Southern Manifesto.”

          • brothergc

            more bull playing the racist card . It is still sin and all You comments and all your wishfull attempts at diversion will not change what is written in The Bible . You sounding like a broken record

          • Gregory Peterson

            Disparaging minority relationships as just about sexual “sin,” has been done before.

            You sound exactly like most every Evangelical proslavery and pro-Jim Crow apologists that I’ve ever read.

            So…just who is sounding like a broken record when your record has been playing the same “Bible Believer” song since Nat Turner’s Slave Rebellion?

          • brothergc

            your attempt at diversion will not fly with me , I never believed in slavery , or any of the other things you claim to divert the issue , typical bait and switch . I am not Homophopic that is a outright LIE typical BS from LBGT to justify their actions. Sin is sin Period and that is the topic and I proved it in the Word

          • Gregory Peterson

            Nevertheless…”I did not write the scriptures , the bible does not support…” is the argument that pro-slavery Evangelicals used against Abolitionists, and segregationists used against integrationists.

            “I am not Homophopic”

            If you weren’t homophobic, you wouldn’t even think to defame Gay people by grouping them with idolaters, thieves, drunkards, swindlers etc. You wouldn’t defame their relationships as just being about fornication.

        • Josephine Harkay

          You mean well but you can argue forever about LEV 18; it will get you nowhere with some people but will merely incite name-calling. Let’s rather call a spade a spade! Obviously we are talking about the practice of sodomy in which a human organ meant to eliminate bodily wastes is used to imitate the natural, pro-creative act between a man and a woman, a desperate attempt, in my opinion. These people are more to be pitied than to be condemned, they don’t know what they are doing. That does not mean we must not keep pointing out the LGBT community’s abnormal sexual practices and the T perople’s biological mutilation.

  • Gregory Peterson

    “Third, since you identify as bisexual, what stops you from affirming your heterosexual attraction as God-given and your homosexual attraction as fleshly, whatever its cause or root?”

    Uh…personal integrity?

    Can you possibly be more condescendingly, self righteously disgusting?

    And yet again…disparaging minority relationships as just being about “fleshly attraction” has been done before. Why, exactly, are you doing it again…and even in the same way?

    “Since all of us are called to deny ourselves and take up the cross and follow Jesus, why not deny that aspect of yourself?”

    Did you deny yourself a spouse and family, a legally recognized marriage, performed by your pastor in your church?

    I thought not.

    Yet you would deny for other loving adult couples what you allow for yourself. Apparently you have learned next to nothing from American history, except to not bully Black people publicly.

    • Josephine Harkay

      To “deny yourself spouse and family” applies in Christianity to people having a religious vocation; by extension we may add that they have to deny themselves spouse and family with a person who is e.g. already married or is a religious. (It is such a mistaken notion by the LGBT community that heterosexuals never have to deny themselves!) For all others it is generally to “increase and multiply.”

      • Gregory Peterson

        Still, Dr. Brown is married and he and his spouse. in an apparently legally recognized marriage, have two children and now grandchildren.

        As an awful person who greedily justifies his unearned state of privilege in the same manner as the racists of my youth, he would, of course, deny Gay people legally recognized marriage and automatic protections for their spouses and children.

  • Gregory Peterson

    “Your attractions don’t define you.”

    Yet…your attractions privilege you, a state which you greedily don’t want to share even when it costs you nothing.

    • CFitzRN

      It is not we who have made the law for which attractions are natural and healthy and which are not. If we did, trust me, most of us would willingly “share” them. Man does not make natural or godly law and therefore, man cannot presume to hold the rights to share them or not to share them.

      • Gregory Peterson

        Segregationists made that same argument about “mixed race” relationships.

        • CFitzRN

          I’m not a segregationist and I don’t have any misgivings about mixed race relationships, so your red herring means nothing to me. This is the here and now, and we are discussing something else entirely. I know you want to equate them, but there is no equating them. They are not now, and have never been the same thing.

          • Gregory Peterson

            But the conservative American Christians of earlier generations did have great misgivings about interracial relationships, which they expressed in the same manner, using the same hermeneutic being used to disparage same-sex relationships and to justify legally disadvantaging them..though fortunately, more and more Americans are not buying that anymore.

          • brothergc

            more bull . this has nothing to do with race and You know it . does not change one word in the bible and my bible still says the same , it is still sin

          • Gregory Peterson

            “This” has a lot to do with equality under the law and economic justice for minority couples. In that respect, it is like the Civil Rights Movement…and the “Massive Resistance” against the Civil Rights Movement.

            And…where were the white “conservative” Evangelicals during the Civil Rights Movement, at least when they weren’t voting for die hard segregationists and spitting on Black children entering schools?

            Even the “moderate” Christianity Today published an editorial scolding those few Evangelicals who supported Martin Luther King, Jr. It was probably aimed at CT editor Frank E. Gaebelein, who did march with Dr. King…and who soon found himself being censored by the segregationist executive editor and co-founder, Dr. L. Nelson Bell, Billy Graham’s father in law.

          • brothergc

            and if Dr King were alive today their would be no way He would support Your views

          • Gregory Peterson

            His wife did. His colleagues in the movement mostly did/do Mildred Loving did.

            The husband of his friend and political strategist and organizer, Bayard Rustin, is still a live. Rustin made the cover of LIFE Magazine for his role in the 1964 March on Washington..but to the displeasure of the racists homophobes.

          • RandyRider

            Dork

          • Gregory Peterson

            You must have really worked on that bon mot.

  • Josephine Harkay

    If Isaac is bisexual, he is much more fortunate than the rest of the LGBTQ community. Why does he have to reveal it to anybody at all (except his confessor) that he also feels same-sex attraction. He can fall in love with a woman, marry her and have a normal family life. Heterosexual people also have to deny themselves occasionally because their love may be a forbidden fruit! My advice to him is to run as fast as he can away from the LGBTQ community!

    • Gregory Peterson

      So…you like people in minority groups silent and invisible to you, thereby being complicit in their own oppression?

      • Shirley Knott

        If you think it’s “oppression” that you can’t blab about your bedroom preferences in public, you are a sad little thing.

        We didn’t force you slobs out of the closet, that was your choice. Keep your trashy affairs private.

        • Gregory Peterson

          You ‘blab about your bedroom preferences’ every time you show people a photo of your husband and family (if you have one, anyway), which I guess makes you a sad little thing, right?

          • brothergc

            why don’t you go post on a muslim web blog , their the ones that put gays to death , Go try the LBGT BS on them ?
            Why do you even post here , what do you believe somehow Your going to change even one Christian ? It is BECAUSE of Christian values your even allowed the freedom to post anything. talk about bite that hand that feeds you . Go try posting in some muslim nation and see how far you get.

          • Gregory Peterson

            I’m not a Muslim. Christianity is my heritage.

      • Josephine Harkay

        I only said what I would do if I were bisexual. Besides I can honestly say that I have never asked anybody to do something that I would not have been willing to do myself.

        • Gregory Peterson

          Perhaps I misread your comment. I’m sorry.

  • brothergc

    Well written Dr Brown . But I suspect many will not recieve it well as they fight to protect their sin

  • Josephine Harkay

    I have a suggestion; let’s leave out Scriptures for the time being because not everybody is a believer. But I am sure this one thing everybody agrees on that “by nature, same-sex relationships are biologically barren;” if mankind was meant to increase and multiply, it could’t be the norm, couldn’t be called normal. So for mankind in general, it is better to be heterosexual than homosexual.

    • Gregory Peterson

      There are age old, and now some high tech, strategies used by infertile couples to have children.

      For social creatures such as ourselves, not every individual has to reproduce as much as they can. Everyone contributes to the making of society, which we must have to raise our children, care for our infirmed and elderly.

      Since most people are heterosexually inclined to various degrees (like most people are right handed) and even the pegged to the end of the sexual continuum Gay people can have children by many means, there is little reason to fear that the LGBT community is a threat to mankind’s existence.

      What is “normal” is to have a sexual orientation, and even asexual people aren’t terribly rare. Not to mention that you should start thinking along the lines of a sexual continuum, rather than either one or the other.

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