In the second major Republican presidential debate Wednesday, this one hosted by CNN at the Reagan Presidential library in California, many thought afterward that Carly Fiorina performed the best, with some comparing her style to Margaret Thatcher. Much of the debate action centered on top tier candidates Donald Trump, Ben Carson and Jeb Bush, but the exception to that pattern was Fiorina, who was still polling in the bottom half of the eleven candidates on stage going into the main debate but managed to grab significantly more speaking time than some of the candidates polling above her.

Trump took the lion’s share of the spotlight, grabbing almost 20 minutes of clock time, but it was moderator Jake Tapper of CNN who seemed to dominate the debate, asking most of the questions and frequently talking over both the candidates and his two fellow moderators. He did at least allow candidates to respond to others when they disagreed. His questions frequently consisted of asking the candidates to comment on something provocative one of the other candidates had said in the past. It was an effective approach for bringing out areas where the candidates weren’t very conservative.

Trump notably disagreed with most of the other candidates in a couple of foreign policy areas. He said he would negotiate with Russian leader Vladimir Putin, and that he was the only candidate who opposed the Iraq War in 2003. Actually, there were two other candidates who opposed the war: Carson admitted he advised President Bush in 2003 not to go to war, and Paul declared, “I made my career opposed to the Iraq War.”

Several of the candidates went after Trump fairly hard. Scott Walker attacked Trump on his history of bankruptcies, saying, “We balance a budget, you have four bankruptcies. That is what’s the matter with politicians in Washington: they think we can take them into bankruptcy.”

At one point, Trump and Bush got into an argument over whether Trump ever attempted to put casinos in Florida. Bush said he stopped him from bringing casino gambling to the state, and Trump said that wasn’t true and that if he’d wanted to put casinos there he would have made it happen. Which candidate was lying? It was hard to tell from the debate, but it was Trump who apparently was playing fast and loose with the truth. Will that hurt him in the polls? It’s hard to say given the widespread cynicism in America toward politicians generally. Maybe his supporters will simply write it off as political business as usual. On the other hand, since some of Trump’s support rests on his reputation as a straight shooter, any proof that he told an outright lie on the national stage while tussling with Bush could conceivably do him real harm.

Candidates like Cruz, Paul and Walker had a tough time getting any traction because they were asked so few questions. Marco Rubio was also asked relatively few questions, but he jumped in several times and came across strongly on combating terrorism. Some thought he improved the most of all the candidates in this debate. The only asterisk on his strong performance was an awkward joke he attempted and failed to land at the beginning of the debate. He noted that he brought his own water bottle to the debate since there was a drought in California, apparently an attempt to make light of his now infamous faux pas during a nationally televised speech in early 2013 in which he was giving the official Republican response to President Obama’s State of the Union address, and paused midway to reach for a drink of water.

Bush was challenged for disagreeing with Mike Huckabee that the jailing of Kentucky clerk Kim Davis represented the “criminalization of Christianity.” Bush responded by insisting that didn’t accurately represent his viewpoint and that he believes there should be an accommodation for religious freedom at the local level.

Cruz and Kasich got into it a couple times over whether the approach to issues should be pragmatic or purely principled. Kasich said he didn’t agree with Obama’s Iran agreement, but now that it’s in place, it would be better to stick with it and go along with our allies. Cruz disagreed, saying, “Obama is leading from behind, nothing short of catastrophic, he will send over $100 billion to the Ayatollah, he abandons four American hostages in Iran, and accelerates their ability to get nuclear weapons. I would shred the deal immediately if president.” 

Cruz and Kasich also disagreed about stripping Planned Parenthood of funding if it were to result in shutting down government for two weeks. Kasich explained that as long as Obama is president, he won’t sign the legislation. Cruz responded in part, “We shouldn’t send millions of dollars to funding criminal enterprises. Republicans surrender, unlike Obama who sticks with his principles.”

Fiorina may have gotten the most applause of the evening when she added, “Anyone who has watched this video, I dare anyone to watch a fully formed fetus on the table, its heart beating, its leg kicking, while someone wants to harvest its brain. This is about the character of this nation, and if we will not force Obama to veto this bill, shame on us.”

Paul and Walker clashed over Obama’s planned state dinner with the Chinese next week. Walker said the meeting should be canceled: “Why are we giving an official visit to a country that’s massively cyber attacked us? This is the time to send a message.” Paul said that was rash and reckless and it’s better to leave the lines of communication open. Paul noticeably had a tough time during the debate considering it was dominated by questions about foreign policy and terrorism, and his isolationist views on these matters are not popular within the Republican Party.

Paul also sparred with the other candidates on marijuana legalization, arguing that Jeb Bush was hypocritical for smoking marijuana in his youth but wanting to send young people to prison for smoking marijuana now. Bush insisted he did not, and had not, pushed to lock up casual marijuana users. That the vast majority of people in prison for marijuana possession actually pled down to that lesser charge in a plea bargain to avoid serving time for a more serious charge is something Paul is either unaware of or chooses not to acknowledge for political purposes.  

Trump and Christie faced off over immigration. Christie dismissed Trump’s plan to deport illegal immigrants, saying it was unworkable and will never happen. Carson agreed with Christie, saying, “People have no idea what that entails.” Carson suggested starting a six-month guest-worker program for agricultural workers. Trump went after Bush on immigration, saying, “He’s weak on immigration and in favor of Common Core, which is a disaster.” Cruz said he is the only candidate on the stage who hasn’t supported amnesty. 

George Pataki Boasts His Moderate Credentials at Second Tier Debate

In the second tier debate yesterday (the “cocktail hour” debate, featuring the four major Republican candidates who are not currently polling in the top 11), Bobby Jindal was on fire, attacking Trump and defending conservative principles. During the first second-tier debate last month, Jindal also did quite well, arguably as well as Carly Fiorina, who rose in the polls enough to make it into the first tier for the second debate. This time around, not only was Fiorina no longer in the second tier debate, but Rick Perry had dropped out and Jim Gilmore did not have enough support in the polls to qualify.

Pataki made it clear throughout that he was the most liberal Republican in the race. When asked about Kim Davis being compared to radical jihadists, he responded, “Yes they’re different, but we have one rule of law in America. She should have been fired, and if she worked for me, I would have fired her. When religion supersedes the rule of law, that’s called Iran.”

Santorum disagreed with him, and said as president he would stand up to the Supreme Court. Pataki replied, “Wow, we’re going to have a president that defies the Supreme Court. Then we don’t have the rule of law.”

Pataki was challenged on a statement he’d said that he wouldn’t support Trump if he was the GOP nominee, breaking the GOP loyalty pledge, and he backtracked. “I’d vote for Trump but he’s not fit,” he said. “He said he would help Atlantic City, but four casinos went bankrupt and 5,000 lost jobs. He will do that for America.”

Graham sounded tough on foreign policy, but not as conservative on other issues. When confronted about his weak position on letting illegal immigrants in the country who take jobs from American workers, he responded, “I have a different take on where the county is going. There are fewer workers today for Social Security. We’re gonna need more legal immigration.” His point was that with a steadily declining ratio of workers (who pay into social security) to retirees (who draw social security checks), an influx of younger, hard working immigrants could be one tool for helping keep Social Security solvent.

Santorum was asked about his support for an increase in the minimum wage and responded with a sweeping attack on all Republicans opposed to even a modest minimum wage hike. “The GOP doesn’t believe in a floor wage for America. We can’t provide some level of income support  — a fifty cent an hour increase over three years?” He appeared unfazed by concerns that raising the minimum wage would cost jobs among the very people the policy change would be designed to help.

Both Santorum and Jindal were forced to admit that like the other two candidates in the debate, they support a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants, although only after the border has been secured. Pataki said he doesn’t support eliminating birthright citizenship.

Perhaps the funniest part of the debate came when Graham defended his friendship with Hillary Clinton by insisting on the need to build relationships across party lines in the same way President Reagan did. “Ronald Reagan sat with Tip O’Neill and drank together,” Graham said. “That’s the first thing I’m gonna do as president. We’re gonna drink more.”