Answering the Question ‘Why Do Any Evangelicals Still Support Trump?’

By Al Perrotta Published on April 3, 2018

You’ve seen the stories, read the Facebook posts, watched the CNN interrogations of Christian leaders. “How in the world can any evangelicals still support President Trump?!?!” Sometimes this is followed by a “What a bunch of hypocritical, phony, vile Christians!” and assorted other slanders that had the word been “Muslim” the writer would have been fired on the spot. Can’t do much about those writers. Bigots are going to bigot. 

The problem is there are decent people asking the question who are sincerely confused or bothered. The question is legitimate and deserves an answer.

I may be able to bring a unique perspective to the question. I’ve witnessed up close the words and actions of faith leaders and writers. I’ve been in on group phone calls with top evangelical leaders during the turbulent, anguished days of the 2016 election. I’ve sat in the pews of some of the players. And I’ve witnessed the wrestling within The Stream itself and in my own heart.

I’ve concluded there are four general fields of support for President Trump in the faith community. But before we get there, we need to clear one thing up right off the bat.

Not All Evangelicals Support Trump

Apparently, the obvious needs to be said. There are plenty of evangelicals who were Never Trumpers and remain that way to this very day. They were repulsed by his behavior, and/or believing to their core that defending or supporting him is a terrible Christian witness. One of our writers was so aghast and heartbroken when our leadership sought a middle way with Trump she was too paralyzed to write. (She would be encouraged to articulate her position and concerns, which she did beautifully.)

I remember one noted pastor struggling to calm scores of members upset he accepted a role on the President’s so-called faith council. I know of one leader of a national faith-based organization so bothered by the notion of Trump he wanted to retire. I know of another faith leader who, due to the sexual abuse of her past, wanted nothing to do with a guy who boasted his fame would allow him to grab the crotch of women. I know a major issue on the heart of these top leaders was “How do we heal the wounds within the evangelical community caused by the division over Trump?”

I well remember how heartbroken and exhausted James Robison was during one dark stretch, when he was working 17-hour days trying to “preserve the unity of the spirit in a bond of peace” between longtime brothers and sisters of the Lord.

No, don’t believe anyone who tells you “all those evangelicals support Trump.” But what of those who do? Part of the answer has to do with what you mean by “support.”

The Pom-Pom Squad

This is the most troubling group, and — no surprise — the ones most likely to be interviewed by the mainstream media. These are leaders and laymen who make no bones about supporting President Trump regardless. They seem to dismiss Trump’s past and present follies with a shrug. They utterly separate the political from the moral, and appear completely partisan in their actions and statements. The President could bring a harem of Playboy bunnies to the White House Easter Egg Roll and you’d half expect them to still be cheering. Or at best mumble something about Monica Lewinsky and Marilyn Monroe.

The Pained But Ultimately Pragmatic

This is the group I feel for the most.  These are the leaders and believers tormented by the notion of casting a vote for Trump, but ultimately did so because of the bigger issues involved and the legitimate dangers posed by Hillary Clinton. They wrestled with Trump days, weeks, even months on end. Finally, they came to this thinking:

“If I believe in the sanctity of life, if I believe in religious liberty, if I believe the culture is heading over a cliff, if I believe in the Word of God I ultimately must do what I must. I believe in principles, not politicians. And the principles I hold sacred have a much better chance of being destroyed if Clinton is elected.”

“If a vote for Trump can help spare the slaughter of countless innocents, in the end I have to back him.” “I’m not voting for Trump. I’m voting for the Supreme Court justices he’ll get to appoint.” 

I listened as some very smart, very measured, very low-key leaders shared their conviction the survival of their church and ministries were at stake. And they were definitely convinced America’s future was at stake. Sure, they care about Stormy Daniels. But they fear the storm that awaits an America that turns away from God.

This is something the media or casual observers would not pick up on: When Hillary Clinton changed the words of the Bill of Rights from “freedom of religion” to “freedom of worship” evangelical leaders saw the knife at their throat. A church could not engage in any activity outside its walls contrary to the anti-traditionalist agenda. Add her campaign manager conspiring with George Soros to infiltrate the Catholic church to overturn traditional teaching, and even what was going on within the church walls was under threat. 

Ask the pastors who were ordered by Houston’s mayor to turn over their sermons.

I listened as some very smart, very measured, very low-key leaders shared their conviction the survival of their church and ministries were at stake. And they were definitely convinced America’s future was at stake. Sure, they care about Stormy Daniels. But they fear the storm that awaits an America that turns away from God.

The Prophets

This is the most interesting group. They hold that Trump is a modern-day “Cyrus.”  That — as shocking as it sounds — God Himself had chosen this ungodly leader for this time, and for His bidding. In 1 Samuel, we learn how King Cyrus was used by God, though he himself was not godly. He not only freed the Jews, but gave them the supplies necessary to return to Jerusalem to rebuild the city and Temple.  (“Did you see? Trump recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel!”)

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I started hearing about this prophetic vision two-and-a-half years ago. The most notable proponent was speaker Lance Wallnau, who happens to be pals with my former pastor in Los Angeles. Another friend was the late Charismatic prophetic minister Kim Clement. Remarkably, 11 years ago this week, Kim spoke about Trump being lifted to the White House. If you want to blow your mind, check out the video.

The “Trump as Cyrus” crowd had the attitude “God has chosen Trump. Isn’t that wild?” This is not a “support” of Trump, per se. It is an embracing of what they see as a move of God.

Initially, it sounded like madness. Trump? Mr. Apprentice a Cyrus? Chosen by God? Yeah, right!

Then inexplicably, his rivals started falling. Trump was good at the campaigning thing, but not that good. He was dribbling through a line-up of all-stars like they were standing still. He was making mistakes and miscues that by all rights should have ended his campaign. Consider Election Night. It certainly felt like something miraculous, inexplicable was taking place. See what Michelle Bachmann wrote for The Stream a couple days after the election.

But Trump?!?! Donald J. Trump? Why in the world would the Lord want to use Donald J. Trump, a self-consumed, materialistic, amoral, boastful loudmouth to turn around America? 

Perhaps that’s the exact point. America has become self-consumed, self-indulgent, materialistic and amoral. How better to transform America than by transforming the very embodiment of America’s ills. Which gets to our fourth group.

The Pastors

This is the group praying for our leader and speaking to him the Truth in love. Those who know what they’re dealing with, and are doing their best to minister to the President. Those who are doing as the Bible commands. 

My boss James Robison, my former pastor Robert Morris and the founding pastor of my current church, Mike Hayes are members of President Trump’s faith council. If you were going to pick three people to be pastored by, you won’t find three better.

Throw in wise leaders like Sammy Rodriguez, Alveda King, Billy Graham’s daughter Anne Graham Lotz and Jack Graham of Prestonwood Baptist Church, and you have a bunch of powerful people of God surrounding and praying for and with the President of the United States. Please don’t underestimate the significance of this.

Ask Pastor Hayes. He got a call at 2 a.m. from the White House, asking him to gather a small group together of African-American clergy to meet with and work with Trump on racial reconciliation. This seeking of wise counsel doesn’t get headlines. But it’s happening.

Ask James. James was no supporter of Trump. James is personal friends with and loves many of the people Trump was up against. Solid people of faith. As James has stated publicly, he shared his deep concerns with Mike Huckabee and Ben Carson when they came out for Trump. Then Carson had a surprise for James. He had made his public endorsement only after Trump agreed to meet one-on-one with James. James did not fly off to New York with joy in his heart. However, when you have the chance to speak into the life of a leader, you accept it. And when you are James Robison, you will share the love of Jesus whether it’s in a garbage dump in Angola, a refugee camp in Africa or a Trump Tower in New York.

So James met with Trump, making it totally clear: “Only God could ‘Make America Great.’ But he could use anyone who will accept wisdom from above, which our Founders referred to as ‘divine providence.'” Trump received it, called it an “amazing meeting” and continued the communication. 

Donald Trump came to trust and receive James with expressions of sincere appreciation. We need to pray their unlikely friendship continues to bear good fruit, both for the President and the nation.

As Pastor Jack Graham put it to The Stream last year, “We offer counsel and a faithful witness and leave the results to Mr. Trump.”

“Support” Means Something Different in the Christian Context

Support for the President does not mean condoning bad behavior.

The media seems especially eager for evangelical leaders associated with Trump to publicly chastise the President. That’s not the way it works, as Dr. Graham told The Stream. Would you want your pastor carrying on about your mistakes in public? His counsel and correction is for the President’s ears only.

Think of it. The prophet Nathan didn’t go on CNN to rip David for the whole Bathsheba business.

Sammy Rodriguez echoed the notion in his recent New York Times profile. He sees himself in the Old Testament role of a modern-day Joseph in Pharaoh’s court.  

“If I’m not there, then what fills that vacuum?” he told the Times. “I know I will get criticized — I get that — but I have to stand up. It’s part of the calling.”

Pray for our leaders, lift them up, exhort them. This is what the Bible commands of all Christians.  


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  • Charles Burge

    As a frequent critic of President Trump I very much appreciate what you’ve written here. I do pray that God will give the president wisdom and discernment, and it gives me hope that he is willing to listen to wise council. Still, I fear for the integrity of our collective Christian witness, and that’s why the pom-pom squad, as you put it, grieves me so much.

    • Wesley

      i am deeply concerned about the “pom pom squad” as well. sadly several of the big names in the Christian media fall into this crowd; Robert Jeffress, Tony Perkins, Dr. James Dobson, Jerry Falwell Jr, and much of those on AFR. i also find the “prophetic” crowd troubling as well for why King Cyrus? God raised up leaders for judgment, and far as i can tell Trump was raised up for this reason as he embodies many of America’s sins. Israel’s first anointed king, King Saul, was God’s judgment upon ancient Israel for all one needs to read God’s response to their demands. Trump’s character has a lot in common with King Nebuchadnezzar just read Daniel.

      • Wesley, really? Nebuchadnezzar? I’m quite familiar with Daniel, and Trump has absolutely nothing in common with that pagan king. Nothing. It’s really an absurd comparison.

        • Wesley

          Just like Nebuchadnezzar Trump has built monuments to himself. He is full of pride. Nebuchadnezzar lost his mind due to his pride. In exchange for moving the Israeli embassy to Jerusalem he gets his name on a train station nearest to the Temple Mount.

          • Huge stretch, my friend. Trump isn’t building monuments to himself, he’s built a brand. BIG difference. And Trump has never demanded that people worship him on the pain of death if they don’t, unless I missed something. Oh I’m sure, NeverTrumpers will claim he has sometime soon. I put nothing beyond their irrational hatred.

          • Ryan

            I know a few never Trumpers and the thing that stands out the most is called, “self righteousness.”
            God has used many unbelieving people for His purposes, The last administration for example.

          • Living gratefully

            Something like conservatives hatred for Obama and the Clintons??

  • ddds

    I don’t like the Pom Pom squad thing, it’s a little creepy. I’m in the pragmatic camp and I do pray that God will give all our leaders wisdom and discernment. I voted for the party that’s not openly hostile to my faith but I’m not under any illusions about the GOP and Trump.

  • Chip Crawford

    What a diverse group is the Faith Council, also including Kenneth Copeland and George Pearsons, his son-in-law who pastors the church on the ministry property. Then there’s the Faith for Our Nation forum including Pastor George, Michelle Bachman, David Barton (WallBuilders, major writer of the 2016 Republican platform) and other KCM persons, Then there are persons of influence such as John Hagee, a Texas pastor and founder and head of Christians United for Israel (2006), whom President Trump called to the White House to discuss the idea of announcing the move of the US Embassy; would it produce a meltdown. Pastor Hagee told him that it would actually help the process since it would take that Palestinian excuse off the table. DJT said he liked that thought, and almost immediately made his announcement. The continuation and deepening of these connections is part of the influence of God at work, which should help believers to know his hand is amazingly in this mix. Men can decide away from him at any point, but he does have many inroads in this President’s thoughts and heart. This is real news, not shabby enough to make the mainstream cut.

    • Kathy

      Mmmm…I find it more than a little troubling that Kenneth Copeland is part of that Faith Council, Chip. A relief to know that the likes of James Robison may counteract some of Kenneth’s over- the-top antics.

      • Chip Crawford

        You may not be aware that James Robison and Kenneth Copeland are close friends of decades long duration. They visited the Pope together in recent history. Please do not go for the media smear, which extends to powerful ministries as well as leaders opposite them. The wolf howls where there’s meat. Let not your heart be troubled.

        • Kathy

          Thank you, Chip! I think it best that I leave all of that alone and refrain from any more comments concerning some of the pastors mentioned in these posts.Much of my reply would tend toward the negative. However, there are pastors I’d like to see on that Faith Council that are not.

          • Chip Crawford

            We can all be thankful that these matters rest with God — the one who knows all, sees all from the highest vantage point.

          • Kathy

            Well said, very good points. I am thankful there are people of faith surrounding our president and that he is receptive to them. Guess it may be a matter of preference regarding personality types, and I realize that teaching the truth is of highest priority. If there are deviations there, though, it is a concern. Don’t mean just the occasional blunder. I can name at least one I have had concerns about…she has not been mentioned here.

          • Chip Crawford

            I think I know whom you mean, the one who says she is his pastor. However, God used her to make a connection. He watched her broadcast over a period, called her up and repeated her words back to her almost verbatim. While I could wish for a “deeper well,” she is not devoid of Christian content and spirit. God uses types and personalities to draw other types and personalities. I’m almost thinking of the verse about not calling common what God has made clean … Yes, though I know it speaks of dietary laws. There is more to all of this than we have figured out. Thank God he honors all of us and loves us to the details even that are not his favorites either. We can trust him. And he has brought deeper voices into the mix. That may be a slim connection at this point.

          • Hmmm…

            One thing about a man like DJT, a leader and successful business man, they know the voice of authority and are drawn to it. They know there are principles that govern things in the world. When real Christianity stands up and speaks forth, they recognize something solid that will work. A lot of Christianity is milk toast. James Robision pulls no punches, is clear and real, but embracing. John G. Lake said that Christianity is a strong man’s religion. His life and ministry are still a model.

          • Kathy

            Interesting that Micheal Brown’s most recent article pertains to what we are discussing. According to Paul, from what I understand, women are prohibited from having a position of spiritual authority over a man. Women are permitted in most ministry positions, but not as a pastor/shepherd or elder/deacon. In my mind, that disqualifies her right there.
            Other than that, I understand what you are saying, especially concerning God using different personalities to draw other types and personalities…that sure makes sense. I am curious, though, when you said God “repeated her words back to her almost verbatim”. ???

          • Chip Crawford

            No, DJT repeated her words back from television teaching almost verbatim from so closely following her teaching. I share your reservations and think there is not the linkage on that level. When the Hollywood access tape came out with him saying all that garbage from 10 years previous, I heard he consulted three of those ministers, without knowing which ones, but that’s a good sign. And I hear of him consulting different ones for different areas frequently. Sounds good to me. I really think that PW fits an area of consultation perhaps, and is not a lead counselor at all. The original contact was a long time ago, and I truly think that others that have come along since have definitely expanded his view and resource ban

          • Kathy

            Oh, I get it. I read it like God repeated her words back to her, haha Like you said, she has claimed to be Trump’s pastor, which she needs to refrain from doing if she still is. Consultant, great…at least most times. Yes, I am thankful as well that many others have come along since, most very reputable as far as I can tell.

          • Living gratefully

            Yes, big concerns over her.

        • Living gratefully

          They may be friends but their nothing alike! James is humble and balanced in his teachings esp.on healing.

          • Chip Crawford

            Do you claim to be humble and balanced? Your free wheeling blitz through here actually puts your own depth of Christianity and word knowledge into question.

      • Living gratefully


  • tz1

    The PomPom squad corresponds to the leftists that said they didn’t mind Bill Clinton raping women as long as he kept Abortion legal.

    But I see the same if not worse problem with the bumbling Bush brothers, Dubya and Jeb that managed to dither (the former flew home to sign a Pontius Pilate Basin paper) while we all watch as Terri Schiavo was horribly tortured to death by dehydration as if being a good cuckservative that played by all the stupid petty rules was far more important than saving innocent life.

    It reflected on Abortion – Who appointed the Judges that voted to keep abortion in “Casey”?

    Yet all of these idiots – or perhaps they were just charlatians and deceivers – were lauded even more loudly by the same Evangelicals that are at least divided over Trump.

    Note how NOT A ONE HAS RAISED CONCERN over continually funding Planned Parenthood – nor of Paul Ryan, one of his first acts was the Obamanibus. 60 Minutes puts up Stormy Daniels. DID ANYONE MENTION THE DEAD ABORTED BABIES by not defunding PP in the Omnibus Trump just signed?

    The legacy #FakeMedia asks Evangelicals about peccadilloes, not Planned Parenthood, and the Sheepish – not shepherd – evangelicals, catholics, etc. just bleat the answer instead of worrying about the abortion HOLOCAUST which continues and is paid for with tax dollars.

  • Howard Rosenbaum

    Well, there are those who are of the “evangelical’ camp who are still somewhat uncomfortable w/the likes of one time playboy & profiteer “The Donald’ sitting in that oval office, Come on. This guy is the U.S.president, not as has been said the pastor of these United ( sort of ) states. Hey, I was not a huge fan during the primaries. I like most of my ilk would have in our tunnel vision preferred a more “faithful” partisan. Say a Huckabee or a Cruz.
    That all changed once the choice was patently clear. A seasoned political panderer proffering poison or an unseasoned apolitical pundit w/a great tag line ? It was already an easy choice for me. Later in the course of the campaign season when legitimate witness to Mr Trumps “changing of the heart” was being promoted by those in the know, the choice became something more than just political expediency. It became something of a spiritual mission. Sort of.
    Now theres this political machine that demands a grease job every time this POTUS needs some encouragement . The GOP controlled bodies of government & the minority in those same seats have not prevented this POTUS from advancing more pro “values voters ” policy than the preceding administrations throughout my voting lifetime.
    So, were Trump a practicing atheist or perhaps even an agnostic & pursued the same pro Judeo – Christian policies , would these antagonists from the “faith & values” camp be as antagonistic towards the man then ? Not likely.
    As for the pharisaical group that can’t seem to grasp the concept of a man coming to faith ( of sorts ) & having a fresh start where these things are concerned in spite of all the hyper “self righteous” sanctimony surrounding this guy from the MSM & co conspiring anti – Trumpers” – GIVE Me A Break ,,! Have you looked in the mirror lately …?!

  • Patmos

    I said it before and I’ll say it again, the response to Trump is of far greater concern than Trump himself. Whether it’s the Trump Derangement Syndrome on the left or The Mueller Stasi Council, Trump’s brash style or anything he might have done a decade ago doesn’t even compare.

    In fact when you consider that all the scrutiny and foaming at the mouth irrationality directed towards Trump has resulted in little to nothing of substance it actually puts him in a relatively decent light. Talk about a backfire.

    • Bojaws Dubois

      Insightful comment

  • Mela

    The POTUS has likely asked forgiveness for has past activities– I’m going to assume that he has. This means he is forgiven. End of that story. So let it go. And I’m speaking to the ‘christians’ that want to take this President down. Clean up your own house first… I’m sure it’s chuck full of ‘nasties’ in many arenas of being a human. Only one man walked the face of this planet without sin… remember? President Trump is a gift from God for this nation for such a time as this. We need to seize this window of opportunity to turn this nation back to God.

    • Tim Pan

      One mans gift is another mans curse.

      • Exactly! He’s a curse to progressives, liberals, leftists, and swamp people everywhere!

        • Ryan

          Communism, Socialism, Progressivism, Liberalism. CSPL equals CeSsPooL, more descriptive of where the left is coming from in todays world.

        • Living gratefully

          The swamp is in the WhiteHouse!!

    • Linda

      Let your pom-poms fly, LOL!

    • Bill Grettner

      Me la, you are delusional.

    • Living gratefully

      “Gift from God?”Hardly! As for asking for forgiveness he said he doesn’t need it. Scripture teaches God opposes the proud. Without repentance there is no salvation! I confess my sins every day and try to live a life of humility so please don’t compare me to Trump.Christians need to hold this man accountable just like they did Obama.

      • Chip Crawford

        You echo the main stream media’s mantra more than a Christian’s word of God. Troll? Your favorable comparison of yourself to Trump sounds just like the Pharisees saying I thank God I am not as other men, like that publican over there … God holds critics accountable for their attitudes in this, like maybe self-righteousness and judging. Trump isn’t your servant. Before his own master he stands or falls. Many of us prayed for your friend Obama even though and especially because he was misguided in many ways. All the more reason for prayer. So, how faithfully do you pray for Trump?

    • karen schulze

      HaHa! He has actually bragged that he has never asked forgiveness. It’s this kinda thing (ahem…facts) that just gets ignored and sloughed off by so many. He called for going after the terrorists family members too. Bottom line- as he said himself: He could stand in the middle of 5th avenue and shoot someone and not lose his supporters. And apparently, that goes for starting a nuclear war too. Unbelieveably #sad for America, the world and the Christian faith.

  • Yossi

    Amen. I can identify with the “Pained but ultimately pragmatic,” as well as the “Prophetic” and “Pastoral.” Besides comparing Trump with Cyrus, I also saw a parallel with Jehu, who became king of Israel (2 Kings 9-10). He was not a godly man, but God anointed him as king and used him to execute judgement against Jezebel and to eradicate Baal worship. I’d like to think that if believers keep him in prayer and the ones around him will be faithful to speak the truth to him, that he may end up in a better place than Jehu did (2 Kings 10:31).

  • Nick Stuart

    A question that seems never to be asked is “Why did any evangelicals support Clinton?” Clinton the candidate who: supports abortion at any time, for any reason, paid for by the taxpayer; had extremely questionable “pay-for-play” transactions as Secretary of State (Uranium One); had committed acts that would have landed any regular citizen in prison (e.g. mishandling of classified information, compare to Kristian Saucier, the former U.S. Navy sailor who served a year behind bars for taking photos of classified areas in a nuclear submarine); demonstrated egregiously poor judgment (e.g. laughing about the overthrow and murder of Muammar Gaddafi, which by the way precipitated anarchy in Libya and a refugee crisis both of which are still with us) ; flat out lied to the American people (e.g. the riots at Benghazi were precipitated by a video); was nowhere to be found the night of the Benghazi attack (we still don’t have the timeline of where either she or President Obama were or what they were doing that night, probably never will). These are just items quickly picked off a very, very long list.

    Also not mentioned is the highly malodorous sanctimony outgassed by a great many Evangelical Never-Trumpers. These folks made it very clear that they were operating off a lofty set of principles that would never allow them to debase themselves by voting for Trump, even if that meant Clinton would win the election (notoriously, that was the stand World Magazine took when the Access Hollywood tape was released. I spent a couple of years on a Presbytery committee that dealt with pastoral misbehavior and in that time worked with cases of: embezzlement, adultery, homosexuality, falsification of credentials, suspected accessory to murder, and more. I have to wonder what would come to light if every minute of every day of some vocal Never-Trumper’s lives were exposed to the kind of scrutiny that Trump has received?

    Mark me down in the “Pained But Ultimately Pragmatic” crowd. Although I have to say that on balance I’ve been pleased so far with the Trump presidency. I’m waiting until mid-2020 to form a judgment on “body of work” rather than reacting to the day-to-day chop.

    • Jim Walker

      Very well said. Totally agree.

    • Jerry Brickley

      Thank you very much. I feel better knowing a person of clear thinking is out there.

  • Linda

    Good article, thank you.

  • Jerry Brickley

    Thank you for an interesting and revealing look into the minds of various Evangelical factions. As an outsider, it was most enlightening and as a Trump supporter since August 2015 it has changed my opinion of Evangelicals.

    I could not be any stronger in my support of President Trump and I don’t have any respect for those among you who would forfeit the good Mr. Trump promised and continues to deliver because you consider him too sinful. Wow…hypocrites!

    Thank goodness, not every Evangelical is so pompous.

    • Bill Grettner

      Look up hypocrisy in the dictionary. Do not be surprised to see your photo! Whatever he “promised” can not be be seen as good. What he has delivered is definitely not!

  • Carol Duryea

    Thank you… great read!

  • A. Castellitto

    Because the Christians have been cast out of the public square… They are trying to get us in a catch 22 of their own design…. I voted for Trump and continue to pray for him

    • What “public square” have Christians been thrown out of? Last I checked, they can still speak in public spaces (though not necessarily in government spaces, as per the Constitution).

      • A. Castellitto

        Traditional faith & values are increasingly becoming disqualifiers for holding public office… Paganism – Practical atheism is the new default religion

        • The Constitution says that there should be no test for public office. Try being an atheist and see if that trait is a disqualifying factor for a large fraction of the population.

          The state-supported public square is religion free according to the Constitution. Sounds like a win for everyone, no?

          • Ryan

            Like it or not, atheism is a religion, the public square is not, religion free.

          • It’s kinda hard for a worldview to be a religion when it doesn’t have supernatural views.

            The relevant word, I think, is secular. The literal public square welcomes all views (with minimal regulation). State-supported venues (schools, city hall, courtrooms), however, are supposed to be secular.

          • Ryan

            Secular is a religion, like atheism, it is a failed religion.

          • And you haven’t explained how something can be a religion and not have supernatural views. Doesn’t such a broad definition hurt the Christian who sees his worldview as a religion?

            You also need to expand on the failure charge. You’re saying that atheism is false? If so, show me.

          • Ryan

            Do all religions have supernatural views? You say that Christianity is false, how so?

          • Most people would have a hard time with a “religion” without supernatural views. That’s how my dictionary defines the word.

            You say that Christianity is false, how so?

            You brought up the issue, so you first. I thought Christians were eager for the chance to share why their religious views are correct.

          • Ryan

            The scripture tells us that the one who says there is no God, is a fool. It tells us we don’t have to share our views with such a one, as it will do no good. I have seen that you will go to any length to express that foolishness, I can’t picture that anyone could be content in that state of mind.
            You come to sites like this to either lure others into your way of thinking, or to see why there is a nagging in the back of your mind that need to change your thinking because you can see there is no future in the way you think.
            Looking at the destruction being caused by non-believers should have some kind of alarm going off somewhere in the back of the mind, because that is what the scriptures show us will happen. When one sears even the conscience, then one is truly lost.
            Time is short, looking at the scripture and at what is going on in the world today, clearly shows where time is scripturally. Since you don’t believe in it I won’t waste my time.

          • It tells us we don’t have to share our views with such a one, as it will do no good.

            Kinda makes the Holy Spirit into kind of a jerk, if it’s his job to create faith in people. He won’t give me faith, so then I go to hell? And you wonder why the Christian message doesn’t appeal to non-Christians!

            “Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect.”

            I have seen that you will go to any length to express that foolishness

            I’m a truth seeker.

            I can’t picture that anyone could be content in that state of mind.

            And if I’m looking for the truth, that means what, exactly? “You should believe the Christian story because it’s way happier”?

            You come to sites like this to either lure others into your way of thinking

            Like you, I know that that’s not likely to happen. Christian thinking is an important element of America at the moment. I’m trying to understand.

            to see why there is a nagging in the back of your mind that need to change your thinking because you can see there is no future in the way you think.

            Cute. No, that’s not it.

            Time is short

            Because of the End? It’s been almost the End for 2000 years. Sounds like you have an unfalsifiable hypothesis.

          • Ryan

            The Holy Spirit doesn’t build faith in anyone, we are all given a measure of faith when we are born. When we come to a point we begin to acknowledge there is more to life than we think and begin to believe in the God of creation and seek Him, then the spirit comes to encourage us to seek more of the Lord. Faith is built through acknowledging the word as the mind of God and following His word as best as we humanly can.
            You say you are a truth seeker, I don’t see that in any of your writing, so, no, you aren’t.
            You don’t try to understand anything of Christian thinking, your putting it down says more than what you are saying here. You have your mind made up about what you already think of Christians and play games to suit yourself. The leftist thinking that exalts yourself above all others is exuded in your writing.
            The end wasn’t counted until Israel was born a nation in one day, just as the scripture said it would be. Israel had to be in existence before the end was to begin. If you want to know more of what is going on you can find it, if you really are a truth seeker. But I know you have read it all before and you know where to look for it but, you really don’t believe it anyway and you have no desire to read it again. So I won’t bother you with it.
            I am prepared to give an answer but I have seen your games you play with people and won’t go there, you really aren’t interested.

          • You say you are a truth seeker, I don’t see that in any of your writing, so, no, you aren’t.

            How about you? Are you seeking the truth in Islam? How about Scientology? Buddhism? I hope you backed the right horse.

            You have your mind made up about what you already think of Christians

            My tentative hypothesis is that Christianity is nonsense. But perhaps you have evidence that will convince me otherwise.

            The end wasn’t counted until Israel was born a nation in one day

            Jesus made clear that the end was coming in the lifetime of his hearers.

            If you want to know more of what is going on you can find it, if you really are a truth seeker.

            But, of course, your definition of “truth seeker” is only someone who’s eager to become a Christian. Right?

            I am prepared to give an answer but I have seen your games you play with people and won’t go there, you really aren’t interested.

            I’m not interested if it’s the same old, tired arguments. I’m looking for new ideas, since the ones I’ve heard so far have been unconvincing.

          • Ryan

            There is one who is coming that will have new ideas that you are looking for, he is actually already here but he will keep you deceived so you don’t or won’t know that you are already his until he wants you to know. You have displayed enough blasphemy of the Holy Spirit to secure a spot in the one world order as a member, so don’t worry about anything new coming from God, you wouldn’t like it there anyway.
            The scripture tells us not to cast our pearls before swine, that is the definition of talking to you and others like you. What we have in the Bible, is only a fore taste of what is to come to those who believe in God. You have an extremely limited idea of what is new, God, doesn’t.

          • A. Castellitto

            No pagan religion and secret societies are the default…. Everyone believes in something, could be the god of evolution, the god of climate change, the god of nothing, the god of relativism…so what is good? Are acts of homosexuality good for society? Everyone has idols and they are as gods

          • You seem to imagine a symmetry that I don’t see.

            Some people believe in things based on evidence, and others don’t much care about evidence. That’s a big difference.

  • Bill Grettner

    The “religious right” will be the ruin of the United States of America. A larger group of hateful, biased, prejudiced, hypocrites has rarely been seen before. Religion has caused more suffering and death down through history than any other force.

  • Diane

    I normally don’t post comments but this has been bothering me for some time. I am one of those Christians who was deeply saddened by the evangelical support for Trump. While his behavior with and toward women was troubling, my main concern was his general lack of any sort of decency. He seemed to be willing to say and do most anything to win. He seemed to have no qualms about lying about himself or his opponents if it was to his advantage. In one of his books, he discusses how he enjoys “getting even” and takes pleasure in seeing another fail. I don’t think anything in this article justifies supporting a person like that. Even if they claim not to condone his behavior, their silence does just that. It seems that fear has driven the evangelical leaders to Trump and I personally believe that their support of him does more damage to Christianity than the left ever could. I hope I am wrong.

    • Chip Crawford

      Understandable from a natural view with the things you mention being current and ongoing. I don’t believe that is exactly the case. The men and women who have formed the Faith Council actually give advice and counsel, which he solicits ongoing since campaign days. He holds some attitudes still that he thinks are just the natural way to go. God will shake his tree for that needed change, like all of us. DJT has made some adjustments. James Robison and others on the Council have made pointed statements to him referencing appropriate attitudes and behavior. Some of this is totally new to Mr. Trump, his world being so removed, even though he has been a churchgoer for some years.

      I don’t view all of his statements on the campaign trail totally disingenuous. That is evidenced by the current and ongoing follow through. He meant his issues. His wild talk put Everyone off, but the Holy Spirit has spoken to many a person that he is using the man and to some that he will use them. You can’t be an influence to a person at a distance. I think things are better than you have depicted, thankfully. However, they are bad enough with the pettiness and other such inappropriate speech. Ironically, everyone, without exception, who gets to know him personally when he is a host, goes away much comforted by an entirely different genial side, complete with utmost courtesy, warmth and consideration.

    • Living gratefully

      My thoughts exactly!!

    • A. Castellitto

      I disagree that Trump had any kind of widespread evangelical support

    • A. Castellitto

      The election of Trump reflected the desperation of a nation continuously on the verge of constitutional crisis. Trump was certainly a flawed candidate, but he was the last man standing in opposition to the liberal establishment.

      In the end, Hillary Clinton’s missed opportunity became the greater moral imperative for a weary and conflicted citizenry. The political, social and cultural establishment had seen fit to scorn and vilify any candidate for political office that was willing to take a firm, principled stance according to God’s commands and the law of the land. Once the few good men fell short of the votes needed to stay in the presidential race, Trump assumed his place as the most vulnerable, beatable, and least ideologically consistent candidate. This played directly into the hands of the Clinton campaign. However, she revealed herself to be so utterly void of any kind of ethical standard or accountability that she lost anyway. Trump would ultimately become the surprise default beneficiary of a bipartisan ‘Never Hillary’ campaign and a rejection of ‘politics-as-usual.’

      When the Republican primary election was at its peak, Senator Ted Cruz dominated WORLD magazine’s evangelical insiders’ survey, which had been previously dominated by Senator Marco Rubio prior to his dropping out of the presidential race. At the time, 76 percent of “evangelical leaders and influencers” favored Ted Cruz vs. 5.1 percent for Trump. Around the same time, Pew Research reported that Trump was the preferred nominee of just 34% of those who attend religious services weekly. It was only when faced with the spectre of a Clinton presidential victory that a certain majority felt compelled to vote Trump to keep Hillary out of office.

    • karen schulze

      well said.

  • Robert Gardner Dunn

    The “ends justifies the means” rationalization is a cop out. It was used by many Germans who listened to Hitler’s hateful and divisive speech but still supported him in the 1933 election. And look what the world got.
    Apparently decency only counts if it’s serving one’s agenda.
    I recall when Bill Clinton was caught lying about his sexual trysts Evangelicals were outraged.

  • karen schulze

    So, basically…you asser that somewhere along the way, Evangelicals chose, without biblical support, to focus on one issue- abortion, not multiple wars, executions, murders, rapes, child molestation, child starvation and homelessness, overdoses or suicides, but abortions as the main evil indicating America had turned away from GOD. And after chosing this issue, they have rationalized and justified the sacrifice of everything else that IS bilblical to achieve the reversal of Roe v Wade. They have chosen to focus on a political agenda vs a biblically sound agenda. There is clear scripture about feeding, clothing and caring for widows and orphans, loving the least of these, divorce, putting down the sword, leaving to Caesar that which is his and focusing on HIS word and commandments, as well as LOVE being the greatest of all the commandments. But, in their “wisdom” they have decided abortion is worth hypocrisy regarding everything else. Yank away the safety net for those we are commanded to take care of, do nothing for the 10s of thousands of kids in foster care, cut back on medicare and medicaid that assists the elderly, risk a nuclear war, trash the environment, encourage the rise of white nationalism, support the modeling of a bullying style of leadership and flagrant lying to our children as the way to “get ahead”, foster division between different groups of people vs loving them…ahem…love is a verb by the way, cover up sexual abuse in the churches and elsewhere and on and on and on all to reverse Roe v Wade? CHOSE to do this and then find a twisted narrative about Cyrus or David or whatever to justify it to themselves and their sheep? Really? The butts in the seat and bucks in the pockets are in decline NOT because of the rise of Islam, but because of the decline in Christian truth by one of the most vociferous of all the denominations. Even the Southern Baptists get it now. The “devil” is behind the pulpit and leading those in the pews astray. But let’s not do anything, it’s a lot of work to be HIS hands and feet, let’s just “pray about it.” UGH

    • Patrick McClarty

      I will try my best to answer your points. And, I guess I am considered an evangelical. All of those issues are devastating. But, only one of those is advocated as correct- abortion. No one I know believes executions, murders and rapes are correct. I would like to see Roe vs Wade overturned, I didn’t know we had to sacrifice everything else to achieve that. I haven’t. The church I go to supports by volunteering much time and gives a lot of money, I mean a lot to organizations that support widows and orphans. We do not believe in divorce. We try to love as best we can not by words (although we do say it), but by actions. An example– our giving last Christmas went to two organizations; the pastor said 1/2 to each, none to the church. It was the biggest giving of the year, around $170,000. Each got $85,000. One of them- a domestic shelter for abused moms and their children. The other- a school in Haiti that works with the poor and orphans. I want the elderly helped, God knows I love those people. My mom and dad were them, and I am getting close. But, I have to admit it is hard for me to see Medicare and Medicaid going to those who abuse their body by alcohol, drugs, obesity, etc. To me, they need education and a change in heart, not free money. Obviously, I hate nuclear war, it would be the end. I recycle daily, cannot stand to see trash on the streets, on our highways. I love this beautiful country God has given us. I have many, many Christian evangelical friends. NONE support white nationalism, quite the opposite. They abhor it, as do I. I do not like division in our country. Politics has become nasty. I have to admit on this one I do not have any answers other than a move from God. I know what you probably hear from the media. All southern baptists are racists, bigots, liars, etc. I know many. They are great people who live their lives as good, solid Christians. Do they mess up? Yes. We all sin. As Paul said “I am the chief of sinners.” Put me in that category. As best I can I pray and read the Word each day. I believe it makes me a better person, husband, friend. Boy, do I mess up. But, I have God’s forgiveness through Jesus Christ, my Lord. I would like to think my Christian walk makes me a good person for all of society. Bless you my friend.

Deciding to Stick to Love
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