Last Friday, July 14, Tucker Carlson — the biggest media personality in America right now — interviewed six Republican Presidential candidates. This was part of the Family Leadership Summit in Des Moines, Iowa. Blaze Media was involved as well. Each candidate got about 25 minutes with Carlson. I watched the whole thing. Here are my takes on each candidate. (Polling data in the subheadings is the latest available at RealClearPolitics.)

Senator Tim Scott (R-SC)—3%

Scott opened with “what a blessing we live in a country where we are free to praise the Lord” and cited John 8:31, 32. Tucker quizzed him mostly on foreign policy. American soldiers should “never” enter the Ukraine conflict, especially since Biden “can’t articulate our national interest” there. While China-Russia-Iran have created a new “axis of evil,” the first of those is our greatest threat.

Scott identified the southern border as our main security problem, because of drugs. He’d go after the Mexican cartels “using every tool available.” Tucker had to ask him twice about where he disagreed with donors. Scott  finally came up with the need to “claw back money” when we bail out banks.

The Senator concluded with his five main points. Take out a loan — pay it back. Work has dignity, and the able-bodied must work. Commit a violent crime, go to jail. Men should compete against other men in sports. Our southern border is our greatest security issue.

Former Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson—1%

Tucker came out blazing, asking Hutchinson why he vetoed a state bill outlawing gender reassignment. Hutchinson: it “restricted parents’ rights” and was unconstitutional. (And indeed, it was struck down by the courts.) But he struggled to explain how it violated parents’ rights, and Tucker kept hammering him. Eventually Hutchinson channeled Dana Carvey’s Ross Perot, complaining “Can I finish?”

Carlson then pivoted to COVID shots, asking the former governor how many he took. Hutchinson turned the question around, and Tucker responded “none.” Which garnered much applause. Hutchinson recovered to point out he resisted vaccine mandates in Arkansas, and kept the schools open after spring 2020. He also called for designating the Mexican cartels “foreign terrorist organizations.”

But, again, Hutchinson displayed annoyance when Tucker tried to interject, snapping “I’m going to finish my answer first.” Carlson eased up at the end, asking Hutchinson what he prayed for. “That I’ll be a good steward of God’s blessings, and that He’ll give me wisdom.” 

Former Vice-President Mike Pence—7% 

This interview was even more acrimonious than the previous — and did not go well for Pence. Some are saying it ended the former VP’s campaign. Asked if January 6 was an insurrection, Pence said it was a “riot” in which 150 law enforcement personnel were assaulted. Those who did so need to be prosecuted — but so too do BLM rioters. Tucker said many thought the 2020 election unfair, and asked Pence if it was. He replied “there were irregularities.” But “President Trump’s words that day were reckless” and “history will hold him accountable.”

Carlson and Pence really disagreed on Ukraine. Pence said that while in Kyiv “the head of the Orthodox Church assured me there is religious liberty” there. Tucker mocked that, pointing out Zelenskyy’s government has arrested priests of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. (The older, pro-Moscow jurisdiction there.) 

The discussion grew even more heated. Pence supports Ukraine joining NATO after the war. This led to the most (in)famous clip of the day. When the former VP bemoaned that we hadn’t provided Ukraine the promised 33 Abrams tanks yet, Tucker exploded. American cities are disaster areas and “you’re distressed that Ukraine doesn’t have enough tanks?!”

Pence responded: “that’s not my concern.” The Pence camp disagrees, but it certainly sounded as if he meant the state of our cities. Needless to say, this session ended with a very frosty handshake.

Former SC Governor and UN Ambassador Nikki Haley—3% 

Carlson was much friendlier to Haley than to his previous two interviewees. But curiously, he never asked the former US ambassador to the UN any foreign policy questions. He asked her if Biden really got 81 million votes. She wouldn’t really answer, but did say her goal was to “change” that outcome. She did admit to “irregularities” and said paper ballots would be a good idea.

Haley repeatedly said she’d apply her experience running South Carolina to the federal government (replacing heads of agencies, for example). He also asked her about health care. Her response? The entire U.S. system is broken and needs to be replaced.

Asked if climate change is an emergency, Haley responded “it’s real, but the discussion is out-of-whack.” Tucker then asked “who blew up the Nordstream pipeline?” Haley: “I don’t know. Do you?” Regarding the $32 trillion debt, she pointed out “both parties did that.” And that the latest spending bill was put through by the GOP House. When asked what House or Senate Republicans she admired, Haley dithered. “It’s not about good people — it’s about having a good agenda.”

Tech Entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy—8% 

Ramaswamy was the only non-politician in the group, and the youngest overall. He stole the show. Even if his answers often bordered on platitudes, Vivek showed himself articulate and inspiring.

Tucker opened with “how is the country doing?” “Poorly,” was the response. Too many Americans have a void that needs filling — with nature, God, family. (Interesting that the only non-Christian candidate, a Hindu, seemed to be adducing the Catholic thinker Blaise Pascal.)

Ramaswamy claimed he’s the only GOP candidate who’s not in lockstep with the Democrats on Ukraine. And with the “psychology of the establishment.” He proposed we agree to Ukraine staying out of NATO and Russia getting eastern Ukraine. But in return Russia should end its alliance with China and take nuclear weapons out of its exclave Kaliningrad (a questionable claim).

Vivek was best on the January 6 issue. Asked if it was an insurrection, he replied “it was the result of pervasive censorship. When people can’t speak, they scream. When they can’t scream, they tear things down.” At this point Tucker was letting Ramaswamy monologue, far more than he did anyone else.

He then brought up the media’s obsession with race, which Vivek labeled as mere “woke smoke.” Regarding “white privilege,” he said that the “ultimate privilege” is growing up with a father and mother, an emphasis on education, and belief in God — as he had.

Florida Governor Ron DeSantis—17% 

Last but not least came DeSantis. When Tucker led with the abortion issue, the governor said that as POTUS, he’d sign pro-life legislation, but added, “Rome wasn’t built in a day.” Carlson said, “You described Putin as a war criminal and that Ukraine was central to our foreign policy.” DeSantis: “I didn’t say that.” (But he did call the Russian President a war criminal.) Then he discussed his service as a JAG officer in Iraq. American troops cannot go to Ukraine, he said, echoing Tim Scott.

Then the governor pivoted to our border. We need to care about it as much as we do about Ukraine’s. He then pointed out, also like Scott, that China is our major concern. Also that Florida banned Confucius Institutes and the CCP from owning land there. DeSantis is against CBDC (Central Bank Digital Currency). He says he’ll be ready when sworn in with legions of qualified folks to staff federal agencies — not just the leadership slots. He’ll also end the “weaponization of government.”

Tucker concluded by asking whether Biden will be the Democrats’ nominee. “I don’t think they can get him out of there. But I’m also fully prepared for a Florida-California showdown [himself v. Gavin Newsom]. And I’m fully confident Americans will choose Florida over defecating in the streets.”

In Conclusion

Overall, Ramaswamy and DeSantis helped themselves the most. Particularly the former with his emphasis on America’s moral failings. Haley acquitted herself well, as did Tim Scott. Hutchinson’s irascibility undercut the good points he made. And Pence? He came across as naïve on Ukraine’s religious landscape, and more concerned with that country than his own. Not a good look.

We didn’t see Chris Christie (3%) or Larry Elder (0%). And, of course, the biggest elephant not in the room was former President Trump (56%). Until he starts showing up, such forums as this will remain much ado about almost nothing.

Timothy Furnish holds a Ph.D. in Islamic, World and African history from Ohio State University and a M.A. in Theology from Concordia Seminary. He is a former U.S. Army Arabic linguist and, later, civilian consultant to U.S. Special Operations Command. He’s the author of books on the Middle East and Middle-earth, a history professor and sometime media opiner (as, for example, on Fox News Channel’s War Stories: Fighting ISIS). He currently writes for and consults The Stream on International Security matters.