Jesus Loves Gay Men and Women: An Interview With Joseph Sciambra

By John Zmirak Published on September 23, 2017

The Stream: Could you please remind our readers of your own story of finding God? Of what His grace rescued you from.

I grew up as a Catholic. But my education in the faith during the 1970s and 80s proved to be marginal at best. I knew a lot about social justice issues, but nothing concerning personal morality. For the most part, I thought those issues should be determined by our personal conscience. Therefore, it wasn’t difficult to walk away as a teenager. At the same time, I was also very anxious about my own identity. Since I was a boy, I often felt estranged and isolated from men and my male peers. I longed for their approval and friendship. But I remained an outsider. Therefore, when I went away to college, I almost immediately found a sense of belonging in the “gay” male community. It was the height of the AIDS crisis. But I willingly took the risk in order to end my loneliness.

I spent years trying to escape the pervasive sense of sadness through a series of sexual relationships. Then I realized that I was still essentially the same lonely little boy. In the midst of my disappointment, I wanted the suffering to end. I wanted to die.JosephSciambra

But Our Lord Jesus Christ offered me one last chance. The possibility of healing. I was so desperate that I took it. Since then there have been many difficulties that I encountered along the way to recovery. But I always take solace in the love of Jesus Christ, who took pity upon me. I am eternally grateful, for I knew many who died so young. At least I have these years in which I can share my small story about God’s mercy and compassion for us all.

Building Bridges to Nowhere

The Stream: As someone who has experienced a conversion, how do you feel when you read about the “outreach” efforts of people like Fr. James Martin? Of evangelical churches that claim to “welcome” gay people? All without asking them to refrain from sin.

These outreaches and ministries are offering a false sort of compassion. In their desire to appear merciful and tolerant, they have abdicated the truth. Many of these ministries are often administered by partnered or “married” homosexuals. They don’t even bother giving the appearance of fidelity to Catholic teaching. An example would be the ministry of “Out at St. Paul” located at St. Paul the Apostle Church in the Archdiocese of New York. For example, in 2015, “Out at St. Paul” launched a video series titled “Owning Our Faith,” in which several LGBT parishioners shared their thoughts. One “gay” man said:

I think what’s interesting is that the Catholic Church probably thinks that it is accepting of gay people, because its message is ‘gay people exist and we should love them and not discriminate against them.’ But because the Church also tells gay people essentially that they need to be celibate, what the Church is saying is ‘you cannot live fully. You can be gay but you can’t live that life.’ And so that inherently is discriminatory.

A “married” same-sex couple believes:

If we leave it, if we abandon the Church then it’s never going to change. So we have to continue living here, being an example and encouraging other people to be that example because that’s what’s going to change the Church.

These statements are the hallmark of almost all such LGBT ministries. They claim that Church teachings are discriminatory and need to be changed. The means by which this change will take place? Through the patient but forceful resistance of gay men and women and same-sex couples who stay in the Church in order to pressure the hierarchy.

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These groups reprimand the Church for its supposed intolerance towards homosexuals. But they strictly limit access. They will only invite speakers who confirm their viewpoint. In those parishes where LGBT ministries exist, Courage chapters are never allowed. [Courage International is a ministry that supports its members in living chastely, – Ed.] When I lived in the Castro District of San Francisco, the gay neighborhood, I had to travel across town to attend Courage meetings. The parish within walking distance explicitly forbade the establishment of a Courage chapter.

In those ministries perhaps there is a slight embarrassed recognition of the Church’s teachings on homosexuality. But there is also an overwhelming belief in the theory of “gradualism.” In other words, these ministries first welcome everyone into full communion with the Church. Then somehow spontaneously — conversion will follow. But the reality has not played out that way. In my experience, those “gay” men and women who are in a relationship with someone of the same-sex never hear a challenge. These ministries fear that they will offend them. Hence, everyone remains comfortable in his present situation. No one moves towards a radical or even a subtle change in his life.

Ministries That Help and Ministries That Harm

The Stream: What kind of outreach/ministry did you find most helpful personally?

Right now, the best ministry in the Catholic church for those with same-sex attraction is Courage. I first became acquainted with Courage soon after I left the homosexual lifestyle in 1999. Before that I’d encountered a series of enabling priests. They wanted to comfort me with the thought that “God made me this way.” They thought the best scenario for my life would include a monogamous same-sex relationship. At the time, I was extremely physically ill, and not interested.

Courage was a revelation. I finally met other men who shared similar experiences of devastation as “gay” men. While an out and proud “gay” man, I often commiserated with my other LGBT friends about the difficulties I experienced. But none of us ever looked beyond the present. And, although our childhoods were often remarkably similar, we didn’t think about that — we just claimed that we’d born gay. At Courage, not all the time, but on occasion, conversations would include some incident from someone’s past: a memory of an unloving father, a boy who mercilessly teased, or an experience of molestation. Then, I began to think about myself and being homosexual in a completely different way. Perhaps I wasn’t meant to be this way. Maybe I spent years looking to heal myself or to escape the suffering I couldn’t endure or even think about.

The Stream: You had met people involved with a very different ministry, Dignity, before that, hadn’t you? Can you compare the spirit you encountered there, and contrast it with what you saw in Courage?

For the most part, those men and women who become influenced by these ministries are of good heart. They instinctively sense a pervasive lack of the transcendent in the often materially obsessed “gay” culture. They want earnestly to connect in some manner to a reality that is greater than themselves. Unfortunately, the leadership in these ministries usually understand the Church’s teachings, but willfully reject them. Making matters worse, they then try to convince others that the Church is wrong and will eventually change. In contrast to Courage, these groups regard the option of chastity as homophobic and discriminatory.

As a result, the focus of these groups often takes the form of political action and maneuvering in order to facilitate an eventual change in Church teaching. But Courage rather humbly and modestly accepts the same teachings as the inspired truth of Our Lord Jesus Christ. This creates a very different “spirit.” From my experience, there is an overwhelming sense of anger and entitlement within Catholic LGBT ministries — a grudge that the Church has a history of rejection towards homosexuals and owes them an apology. In Courage, there exists an almost Marian submissiveness to the will of God.

The Stream: Do you think that the “welcoming” approach proves more respectful of the dignity of fellow sinners with a particular temptation, compared to that of Courage? Or less? And why?

In no way can anyone claim to uphold the dignity of an individual if he is also helping that person to remain in a sinful life or even the occasion of sin. While we cannot act as anyone’s keeper, to openly promote a message contrary to Church teaching while insisting that it’s actually the true message of Christ, is both deceptive and disrespectful. It does not accord the LGBT community the choice to make their own decision based on the actual facts. Like the “Prodigal Son,” they have the right to accept church teaching or reject it. But they should base that decision on the truth not on pure emotionalism, self-deception, or willful misrepresentation.

Joseph’s Ministry

The Stream: Can you please talk about the outreach that you yourself are doing now? You posted some photos on Facebook of your interactions with people in the drag lifestyle. Can you talk about that?

At least three times a year, I outreach to the LGBT community in San Francisco. I take t-shirts and signs that feature the URLs for my website: jesuslovesgaymen.com and jesuslovesgaywomen.com. And I attend the various “Pride” events and street festivals. I hope to somehow begin a conversation with any individuals who see the signs and want to talk with me. While the message sounds gay-affirmative, the content on the site offers a completely different perspective than what someone would hear from a typical LGBT ministry. Sometimes, after these events are over and everyone goes home, I get emails from those I met. Some did indeed take a look at my sites. They often write back that they disagree with my point of view, but they appreciate my willingness to reach out to them.

What I most enjoy about these outreaches is just talking with the members of the LGBT community who attend. Despite their often outlandish appearance, these children of God were once someone’s little boy or girl. When I see them, I often see myself — and I can feel their pain buried under a costume or under layers of makeup. Sometimes though, their anguish is literally on the surface — in their desperate willingness to expose their flesh. This is most often the case during the Folsom Street events which primarily cater to the BDSM community. Here, men and women submit to public ritualized beatings and mortifications that strangely resemble the martyrdom of the Saints. But there is no redemption here in their suffering. It is pointless.

Yet, I believe no matter how hopeless anyone’s life appears at the present moment — that same life still has immense worth. I was once one of them. I cannot show them any less compassion or mercy than Christ has shown me.

How to Minister to Friends and Family

The Stream: What would you advise Christians who struggle with this because they have friends with same-sex attraction? How should they reach out? What’s the proper balance? Is it comparable to having a friend with untreated alcoholism, or is that a bad metaphor? Can you suggest a better one?

The LGBT identity is like no other. You can’t compare it to alcoholism or porn addiction because those issues are not an identity. Theoretically, someone could have a conversation about alcohol or porn addiction with someone who had that problem. The person affected could conceivably separate himself from the critique of alcohol or porn and not take it personally. It’s almost impossible with homosexuality. The person’s identity is wrapped up in the action. In other words, if you are critical of homosexual activity, I’d feel that you are in some way denigrating or marginalizing my very being — who I am as a person. This makes conversations difficult. Therefore, a person who wants to reach out to someone that identifies as LGBT needs to start from a place of concern for that person. That you are only interested in them — in their happiness, health and safety.

With men as opposed to women who are same-sex attracted, the conversation will be somewhat different. “Gay” and bisexual men still have astonishingly high rates of HIV infection. There are also now antibiotic resistant strains of gonorrhea. So there needs to be a level of urgency that perhaps will not take place when speaking with a “gay” woman. Again, this conversation needs to start with you articulating your concern for someone’s well-being. This will hopefully put him at ease and allay any fears that you simply want to condemn him. You need to listen.

Yet some make the mistake of only listening. But at some point you do need to make the truth known. Before that moment arrives, I recommend that people become informed. There are wonderful books on the subject: The Truth About Homosexuality by Fr. John Harvey; A Parent’s Guide to Preventing Homosexuality by Dr. Joseph Nicolosi; and Why I Don’t Call Myself Gay by Daniel Mattson. Any of them will help you to understand some of the possible causes of same-sex attraction. And, depending upon your previous knowledge of this person and his family background, you will be able to ask some of the right questions. Especially with a young man, you should ask about his relationship with his father. This could open up an opportunity for profound vulnerability. Or the person could completely shut down.

When you do share your feelings about acting out on homosexual desires, most likely the person will cut off contact with you. He will perceive your beliefs as inherently bigoted and discriminatory. Nevertheless, remain steadfast, for it’s possible that you are the only individual in this person’s life who told him the truth. Regrettably, in order to remain in touch with someone, family members and friends will oftentimes capitulate or remain completely silent. But one day, perhaps the person you loved enough to tell the truth will reach a place of extreme desperation and decide that just maybe there exists something for him beyond sexual identity. And he will reach out to you. For me, that was certainly my parents.

Where to Learn More

The Stream: Please tell us about your book, Swallowed By Satan.

I wrote it in 2012, during the build-up to the Supreme Court decision legalizing same-sex marriage. Then, I noticed a trend in popular culture to totally remake the image of the “gay” male. Growing up in the 1970s, I always saw homosexuality as a sort of symbol of sexual liberation. This was probably most explicitly realized in The Village People. But after the horrors of AIDS, “gay” man were reimagined as the suffering victim or martyr. Think of the film Philadelphia with Tom Hanks.

Then the debate became dominated by same-sex marriage. It seemed that the majority of gay men and women were more than ready to settle down and conform their lives to a “heteronormative” model. Any discussion concerning sex or sexuality seemed to be missing. Therefore, in my book, I wanted to remind everyone that a vast and hard-to-navigate sexual landscape awaits young gay men. The possibilities are endless and often dehumanizing. For those who frequently remembered a not too distant childhood filled with loneliness, the ability to immediately partake in sexual activity with numerous men in order to gain love and friendship, is immensely attractive. I thought, through my own memories, I could reveal how “gay” male sex doesn’t magically get rid of old wounds. It actually makes them worse.

To learn more about it, please visit www.josephsciambra.com.

The Stream: Anything else you’d like to add here, please do.

In the current climate within the Church, there are various voices which seem to speak in authority and claim to rightly understand the true nature of God’s plan for those with same-sex attraction. Some say you were just born that way and you need to make the best of it. But God didn’t create you with a desire to love that is forever linked with an attraction to the same sex. Yes, our same-sex attraction is something that remained out of our control when were children.

But as adults, we can make the decision to act upon our desires or practice restraint. If we choose the latter, the process will be much easier if we come to understand why we have these desires in the first place. While the journey to discover the cause of our homosexuality is a tough one, and we may never fully know, it’s one we must all take — for our life depends on it if we are ever to find true and lasting peace.

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  • Alfy

    Thank you Joseph for all you do, You are very courageous. The countless lives you have helped through your outreach can not be measured. It’s hard to understand what those with same sex attraction go through for someone who does not have that desire. Thank you for giving us a understanding , and guiding us on how we can help those we love.

  • Leviticus 20:13

    13
    “ ‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman,
    both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death;
    their blood will be on their own heads.

  • A more fitting headline would be, “Jesus Loves Gay Men and Women, But If You Get Gay-Married He’ll Send You To Hell.”

    • GPS Daddy

      Gay marriage does not send someone to hell. Sin does. If you take marriage out of the issue my sin still will send me to hell. Your sin will still send you to hell. So your framing of the issue is intellectually dishonest to what the bible says.

      • Tim Pan

        Gay marriage is a demonic corruption of the institution of marriage.

        • GPS Daddy

          Tim, agreed. What am I trying to get Chuck to see if he does not? That regardless of gay marriage, or same-sex sex he, myself, you, and everyone else is still guilty of sin. Because of this we need Jesus. Jesus loves us enough to die to take care of the penalty of sin… So what Chuck needs to come to grips with is that he has a sin problem that he cannot deal with. Jesus has the solution..

          • Tim Pan

            Chuck has been blinded by hie sin. Only the Lord can restore his sight.

    • Alfy

      The problem is there is no such thing as gay marriage. The church does not recognize it. It doesn’t exist. The sin is acting on the impulse of same sex attraction. Thus the title is correct. Joseph does a excellent job laying this all out.

      • John Connor

        The church doesn’t have to recognize it in order for it to exist. Marriage is a civil matter.

        • Alfy

          My response was about the title , Jesus loves gay men and women. We are talking about the Church. What you do with who ever you wish endorsed by the state has no bearing on this discussion. Traditional marriage will be the only marriage accepted by the Church.

        • Shaquille Harvey

          Not really, marriage in part has been somewhat of civil matter however in many aspects it was covenant contract and something that was seen as part of the divine and essence of humanity.

          • JM

            I really like the way you debate. you put these people in their place every time

          • John Connor

            Not even close

          • John Connor

            No gods are needed for marriage. It is a civil matter.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            Except again that has never been the case. As I said in one part yes there is a civil matter but in other aspects there is also the contract which was seen as acting the role and dedication of that towards the divine in essence and the role of family and participating of the community and future generations as a whole.

          • John Connor

            For the religious. For the secular, it is a civil contract.

          • L E

            I knew Bob Seidensticker in college. Knew him quite intimately as a matter of fact. He’s still quite the closet case. Good luck to you.

    • Patmos

      “A more fitting headline would be…”

      Not really, because it doesn’t come close to matching the content of the article.

      Do you ever investigate anything with any sincerity? Or are you just content with thinking you have it all figured out?

    • Kevin Carr

      Not so, your sins don’t send you to Hell, if you accept Christ as Lord and Savior does. He doesn’t save us for us to remain as we are. Actually, God gives you your choice as to where you go, if you know otherwise please cite book, chapter and verse(s).

    • bob

      God doesn’t send anyone to hell. By refusing His gift of Grace you send yourself to hell.

  • Bob Adome

    The Lord does not delay his promise, as some understand delay, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish but all to come to repentance. 2Peter 3:9

  • JM

    Like I said before. the idea that people are born homosexual and transgender make no sense. like If God created some people transgender than why would he say that in the Beginning he made them male and female? shouldn’t it be male and female and transgender? why would he leave out transgender if he also created some people that way? and for what reason would God create people that way? if Bruce Jenner was really supposed to be a woman than why didn’t God just make him a woman? why a woman with a man’s body? and why would God create people as homosexual when he commanded us to be fruitful and multiply? (which is something that homosexuals are incapable to do) even in the Bible you have verses like Ephesians 5:25 which says Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her and 1 Corinthians 7:2 that says But because of sexual immoralities, let each man have his own wife and let each woman have her own husband. you have verses like this and you want people to believe that God wanted some humans to be homosexual? also notice the word each? ”each man” and ”each woman”? that means that no one was supposed to be homosexual. it means that even those who are engaging in homosexuality are also supposed to be with the opposite sex (but as the Bible says. people started leaving natural relations with the opposite sex and began lusting after the same sex) both born homosexual and born transgender make no sense and are completely contradictory to everything in the Bible. there is no biblical evidence at all that God wanted for some people to be homosexual or transgender. when the Bible speaks on homosexuality. it is always said to be something of sin not something of how people are born. when it speaks on homosexuality it does not do so the way the world does it. it doesn’t say ”people are born this way, this is not what someone does, it’s who someone is” it says that people were leaving (choosing) natural relations (heterosexual relations) for unnatural ones (homosexuality) so when someone says ”homosexuals are born that way science has proven it” I say to that. if these ‘scientists’ are telling you something that the Bible is not in agreement with (such as that you are born homosexual or transgender) than it is not true and no Christian should take it as truth

    • JM

      For anyone who has read the Bible can you please show me where in it does it say that homosexuals are born that way and that God created them that way? give the chapter and verse. because you have all these people telling homosexuals that they were born that way and that God made them that way yet the Bible nowhere backs what these people are telling homosexuals. the Bible actually says the opposite of what people are telling homosexuals – that no one is born that way.

      • bob

        we are all born sinners. Whether it’s sexual perversion or any other sin. God makes no distinction. But just because you are born sinners does not justify continuing in your sins. Anyone who tells homosexuals they can continue in their lifestyle and be saved is either lying or doesn’t know God’s Word.

  • Jeremy L

    Joe, why don’t you tell us WHY monogamous same-sex relationships are so bad, instead of just dismissing them? I’m all for voluntary celibacy, but I would like to know why celibacy should be the only option for someone attracted to the same sex. The “advice” you give about telling gay men to be celibate because you’re worried they’ll get HIV is cringe-worthy. Why do you have this weird assumption that every gay man on the planet is a wild, promiscuous sex maniac who never practices safe sex? Also, you admit that STDs are hardly ever a problem for lesbians. As such, what is your rationale for preventing lesbian relationships? What do you tell lesbians to get them to be celibate? And why should they be?

    Joe, I’m sincerely sorry that you were sexually abused by gay men, but smearing gay men isn’t going to help you. I don’t know if you are attracted to men or not, since you mysteriously don’t really describe your own patterns of sexual attraction. All you really say is some creeps took advantage of you. But if you are attracted to men, I’m sorry your trauma has prevented you from wanting to form a loving same-sex relationship. If you are attracted to men, Joe, it does not have to be true that it’s a result of a bad childhood. It also doesn’t have to be incompatible with a loving romantic relationship. If you are gay and don’t want to call yourself gay and want to be celibate, that’s fine. But your experience is not the definitive gay experience, and you shouldn’t pretend it is.

    • Andrew Mason

      Is the advice any different to that for non-homosexual men (or women)?

      • Jeremy L

        Um. What? No, it’s not, actually. There is no assumption that a heterosexual will inevitably get HIV unless he or she is celibate. Sciambra does not say, “Tell your sexually active heterosexual friend or heterosexual friend desiring sex that he will get HIV”.

        • GPS Daddy

          That’s dodging Andrew’s question, Jeremy. Andrew’s question was pointing out that the principle of being celibate is just as important to heterosexuals. We suffer in our society with all kinds of issues and problems because we try to have sex without consequences. We try to ignore the purpose of sex and suffer for in the process.

          • Jeremy L

            Except heterosexuals are permitted to have relationships whereas homosexuals have no such recourse and must suffer loneliness. And that’s crap.

        • Andrew Mason

          So because non-homosexual intercourse is less likely to result in contracting HIV it’s acceptable? And what of comments such as “if you aren’t HIV+ you aren’t a real homosexual”? There seem to be elements that embrace death. The fact is fooling around outside marriage (marriage meaning man+woman – and its idiotic that I need to define it but I guess I do these days) doesn’t merely risk getting HIV but a lot of other issues.

          • Jeremy L

            The homosexuals who embrace HIV are wrong and horrible and psychologically unwell. But surely you must know not all homosexuals embrace HIV. In fact, most don’t. All of the gay support functions and groups I’ve been to as an ally stressed HIV prevention, in fact.

    • Shaquille Harvey

      Tell us where people are born gay ?

      • Every bothered to ASK someone who is Gay?

        • Shaquille Harvey

          Ask them what ?

        • GPS Daddy

          A person does not know that they are born gay. I do not claim I know I was born heterosexual. I am heterosexual but I cannot make the claim I KNOW I was born that way. That is knowledge that no one has.

          • John Connor

            Opinions vary

          • GPS Daddy

            Denial happens.

      • Jeremy L

        People are born gay in every country in the world. They have been since the beginning of humanity.

        • Shaquille Harvey

          Again where ? Is it conclusive ?What proof or is this an assertion?

          • Jeremy L

            The medical community at large agrees no sexual orientation is a choice or can be changed, be it heterosexual, homosexual, or what have you. We don’t know what exact factors cause someone to be attracted to exclusively the same sex, although there is evidence that the early uterine environment is important and that genetics do contribute somewhat. You can look all this up. See twin studies finding one twin being gay increases the chances of the other being gay and the effects of fraternal birth order on sexual orientation. Yes, we don’t know if homosexual orientation is fixed in the womb or shortly after someone is born or later in early childhood development. But we do know it is involuntary and permanent. No one is attracted to the same sex because they are “immoral”. That’s idiocy. Using simple logic doesn’t seem to work, but hell, perhaps repeating some simple questions will make you think (probably not though). Let’s say everyone is “naturally” heterosexual. Let’s say someone decides they want to be gay. Where do they start? How do they make their genitals respond to the same sex if they naturally respond to the opposite sex? Further, what in the hell is even their motivation? They just “hate God” or something? And as Chuck suggests, why don’t you ask a gay person why or how they are attracted to the same sex. Because you’ll just assume if they say, “I always was,” they are lying or somehow mistaken? If they report not childhood trauma, does that mean they must be lying/mistaken as well? The “born this way isn’t true” line is based on no actual reasoning, but rather paranoia and sad desperation to justify anti-gay views.

          • GPS Daddy

            >>But we do know it is involuntary and permanent

            That is not a true statement.

          • Jeremy L

            It is. Get over it.

          • GPS Daddy

            No, Jeremy, it is not a true statement. There are many, many people who were same-sex attracted but are not now. You need to wake up to the truth of that. Sexual attraction is changeable for people do successfully change it. That is not to say that the changing is easy. Nor does it mean that all will be successful in doing so.

          • Jeremy L

            They are lying. They are covering up the fact that they are attracted to the same sex to find acceptance. Idiot.

          • GPS Daddy

            No Jeremy, they are not. You have no way to evaluate that. You just don’t want to hear that there are people who actually change.

          • Jeremy L

            And you DO have a way of evaluating that their claims of sexual orientation change are true?? You see no reason whatsoever why they would lie? Please. What’s really happening here is you don’t want to hear that people CAN’T change their sexual orientation, so you’ll just blindly accept whatever an alleged “ex-gay” tells you. Sexual orientation change efforts have been demonstrated time and time again not to work and to cause much psychological damage in its participants–to the point where they’ll convince themselves they’ve changed just to avoid the crushing feelings of worthlessness instilled in them! The largest, most reputable medical and psychological organizations in the country agree unanimously that it is all just shaming and quackery. This isn’t just you vs. me, this is you vs. hundreds of medical professionals and psychologists. Let me guess, they’re all in on the “evil conspiracy” to “destroy family” too? You’re nuts.

          • Jim Walker

            “The medical community at large agrees no sexual orientation is a choice or can be changed, be it heterosexual, homosexual, or what have you.”

            This sentence is a double edge sword.
            We see Hetero changing to Homo and Homo changing back to Hetero, the latter being the answer that gender dysphoria is real and its not born.
            Joseph is a fine example, along with many others, that Homosexuality can change back to Heterosexuality.

            I’ll leave the “what have you” for you to ponder over it.

          • Jeremy L

            Joseph doesn’t present a wife or girlfriend, does he? Nor does he claim attraction to women (or men, for that matter). Change in actions doesn’t mean change in attractions. And we don’t even know what Joseph’s attractions are! All we know is that he was abused by some seedy gay men, then left that abuse. That tells us nothing. “Hetero to homo”, as a side note is actually homo pretending to be hetero before admitting they are homo. What you perceive is not nevessstily reality.

          • Jim Walker

            Why do you stereotype him ?
            Must he be an open book to you? There are many other examples of gay people coming back straight, not just Joseph.
            Why do you have a fixed mind ? I thought you are a progressive liberal, I guess not.

          • Jeremy L

            “Must he be an open book to you?” If he wants to convince me he’s truly ex-gay, yes. Yes he does. But he oddly just keeps mincing words about his own sexual preferences. It’s just odd, you have to admit. We don’t know whom/what Joseph is attracted to because he won’t tell us, so we have no way of verifying if he is “ex-gay”. Having gay sex (which he never even initiated but rather gave himself over to, we must remember) and then not having gay sex and not calling yourself gay doesn’t mean you are not gay anymore.

            I’m all for open mindedness, but I will not just believe something for which there is no evidence besides someone’s claims. If it were the truth that being gay was 100% a choice and 100% changeable, I would still support gay rights because nothing convinces me that it is a “bad choice” or that it needs to be “changed”. But the truth is it is not chosen and cannot be changed. What someone chooses to do with their homosexuality (ignore it or express it) is that person’s choice. If someone is gay and wants to be celibate, I’m all for that! But any notion that one can change their sexual attractions flies in the face of everything we know about human sexuality. Maybe I really, really want there to be life on Mars. Maybe someone says they saw life on Mars when flying by in their own personal spacecraft despite NASA never detecting anything. Now, should I believe what this person says is true, or should I question them? Just because you want it to be true doesn’t mean it is.

          • Jim Walker

            Since when I don’t support the rights of gays ? They can have all their rights equal to everyone else’s rights.
            But for every gay that goes straight, it should be a happy event. I’m not talking about Joseph, I’m talking about the many LGBTQ who have come back straight. Why can’t you accept the fact that it is possible for them to be straight again ? Just go search and you will find so many cases.
            Peace out.

  • Katherine

    Thank you, Joseph, for all that you are doing.

    Jeremy, I have no special qualification to answer your question, but I’ll try. The whole biological rationale and logic for sexual activity is the generation of children. Some of the time that doesn’t happen; sometimes it does. But it has a purpose, just as the elements that make up your respiratory system have a purpose. If you use your lungs for drinking, you’ll drown and die. If you use your sexual organs for a purpose which conflicts with their design, you probably won’t die (not immediately anyway!) But there is an underlying inappropriateness, because biology matters, despite the best efforts of an over-urbanised and over-affluent culture to deny it.

    None of what I said above links to religion in any direct way. Of course, if you are a Christian believer of some sort, then you have an obligation to live according to the wisdom of God, rather than your own. If you’re not, then you’ll have to operate according to your own ethical framework and hope for the best.

    • Jeremy L

      Your talk about “biology matters” is an argument I’ve seen many times, but it’s problematic because it shoves the emotional aspect of sexual relationships into the background when most couples (homosexual and heterosexual) would say that the love of their partnerships is what matters to them the most. If we can agree that many gay couples really are in love, then what do we do with that?

      • GPS Daddy

        Emotions, Jeremy, are fleeting. The come and they go. They are like waves of the sea. Purpose is not tied to emotions. Here is another thing that is also not tied to emotions: love. Love is a decision at its core. There are time with people that you must press the right path forward against all that your emotions are saying.

        The design argument is about purpose. Who are you Jeremy? Are you defined by the sexual emotions you feel? Is that your highest identity? Purpose is a big part of defining who we are. A male is not a female and a female is not a male. There are only two genders. But a human is not a chimp and a chimp is not a human. I actually had someone try to tell me that there is no difference between a spider and a human sexually…

        Identity is a big driver of what kinds of behavior people think is acceptable. Some really do think they are a god and those that do and gain power weld it over those underneath them like they are a god. Can you think of examples of that going on now on the world stage? Some think they are the opposite gender because of what they feel and they think they have a right to enter the private spaces of the opposite gender. The design argument clearly shows that that is wrong. If you have male equipment you have no business being in the restrooms and locker rooms of those who have female equipment. And vise-versa.

        Another aspect of purpose in sexuality is that sexuality purpose is procreation. While there is pleasure in sex, the purpose of sex is procreation. People need to have offspring for when our parents are old we should take care of them… when we are old our children take care of us. Children need both a father and a mother. If the birthrate drops too far society will collapse and the children growing up in that will suffer just as much as anyone else. For they will have to try and pickup the pieces. Same-sex sex undermines this in a dangerous way by denying that purpose of sex is not procreation and that making offspring is not important.

        • Jeremy L

          Same sex couples can act real, powerful, sacrificial love for each other. They are not invariably merely infatuated with each other. Get over it.

          • GPS Daddy

            Jeremy, can you actually interact with what a person posts?

          • Jeremy L

            I’ll say it again. Same sex couples really love each other. You clearly don’t love anyone nor are you loved by anyone. Filthy worthless scum.

          • GPS Daddy

            Really loving each other does has nothing to do with the design of life.

          • Jeremy L

            And making kids doesn’t have anything to do with a couple’s legitimacy!

          • GPS Daddy

            redefining family does. saying that a kids don’t need their birth parents is a complete lie.

          • John Connor

            Nope. Family hasn’t been redefined, it has been expanded to include SS families.

          • GPS Daddy

            yep

          • Shaquille Harvey

            And will it continue then?

          • Jeremy L

            Just because you are the birth parent of a kid doesn’t mean you are the best person to raise the kid. Abusive drunk who fathered a child needs to be in that child’s life? Nope! Surrogate mother for gay or, better yet, infertile heterosexual couple needs to parent the kid she carries and births even though she has no interest whatsoever in being a mom? Nope!

          • GPS Daddy

            The abuse of parents is irrelevant to the right of the child to be raised by their parents. Sure, if a parent crosses some line (what the line is, is irrelevant to the discussion) then the child needs to be removed. Traditionally, social services works to place a child back into their birth home. A mother who gives up their child for adoption can take that child back up to a year after the adoption even though the adoption was final.

            Your not going to have an argument to undermine the right of a child to be raised by their birth parents.. its baked into the nature of life.

          • Jeremy L

            What if some scumbag knocks a woman up and leaves? What if the woman is mentally unfit to take care of the baby and even hates the baby? The parents can be abusive/absent from the start. Inseminating a woman does not make you a dad. Carrying a baby does not make you a mom. It’s even been theorized, in evolutionary terms, that homosexuality exists so babies whose parents abandon them can have homes with couples who can’t have babies themselves. Family is not about gender, gender roles, heterosexuality, or who you’re related to. Sorry.

          • tether

            To love or not to love is a decision not an emotion. If I choose to love someone then I want what is best for them. If I truly want what is best for them then I want them to spend eternity with Our Lord and Savior. How selfish would it be of me to even consider drawing them into a relationship that would disqualify them from that eternity with Jesus.

          • Jeremy L

            The whole premise that being devotedly and selflessly in love with another human being will earn you the same fate as the most evil murderers and tyrants of history because the creator of the universe has some weird hang-ups with sexuality is stupid. Really stupid. And nonsensical. Besides, it is crystal clear that the true reason you want to end gay relationships is not because you care about gay people or anyone else for that matter, but because you dislike seeing same-sex romantic affection for no rational reason. You are nothing but self-interested.

          • tether

            Wow, it must be quite frustrating to know everyone else’s motives and thoughts with out even ever having met them.
            You are either an ignorant arrogant troll, or just ignorant and arrogant. How dare you pretend to know or even think you can judge my motives. And you base your judgment on what a short paragraph posted on a discussion forum.
            The truth is I love all people regardless of their life gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, etc. I love them because I choose to love them because they are part of God’s creation. To love God means to love what God loves and to hate what God hates. God loves all man kind and God hates all sin. So yes I hate to see sin of any kind. And yes I find it repulsive to see people flaunt their sins. For example an un-married couple having sex is a sin and a public display of their affection is not something I care to see . A thief shoplifting in a store is not something that should be on display, nor is purjury, or murder. These and many other actions that are routine events on television are a major factor in my decision to cancel my satellite service a few years back. The filth that is on display as so called family entertainment is unfit for adults let alone children.

          • Jeremy L

            If you loved people, you’d listen to them, not blindly believe the things they do are “sins”. I suspect you don’t like same sex romance/sexuality simply because you can’t relate to it, not because you’re “moral”. There is nothing to be gained from accepting a given “morality” and never questioning it and how it might hurt others. Did you ever consider the gay person’s feelings? How would you feel if I came up to you and told you to ditch your spouse because being with them is “sin”?

          • tether

            Again you speak out of ignorance assuming to know when you don’t.
            I am happily married thank you and I do understand romance, and sexuality. I lived many years of my life in the world walking in rebellion against God. I am so grateful for His mercy, because I was headed on the wrong path. Thankfully people around me loved me enough to tell me the truth even knowing that it would hurt my feelings. But they loved me and told me the truth. While I didn’t want to hear it and didn’t like it at the time, now I appreciate them all the more for it. Because they demonstrated true love for me.
            Those who claimed to care about me and or love me would have had me continue living in sin and encouraged me to die in my sins, separated from God. What kind of love is that?

            Much better to hurt ones feelings for a time than to see them spend eternity separated from God and all that is good.
            As for me being moral, non of us are moral or good, only God. That is why we need a Savior, Jesus. Who paid for our sins, not so we could live in them but so we could be delivered from them.

          • Jeremy L

            As expected, you missed the point entirely. The point is there is no good reason WHY gay relationships are sin. A gay couple’s relationship can be just the same as your relationship with your spouse. And yet you talk as if their relationships are equivalent to murder and theft. And can’t even understand why you’re wrong. Have you even bothered to meet these gay couples before “lovingly” rebuking them? You may blindly believe that “there’s no way their relationship could be good”, but that’s likely because you won’t look closer!

          • tether

            God determines what is or is not sin. Man does not get to decide, only God. and He decided it long before you or I were born. It is not open to debate as it is already determined. Sexual immorality separates one from God the same as other sins. I am not saying it is a greater or lesser sin, that is not for me to say, God said it is sin.
            I know gay people, I have a relative who is gay, whom I love very much. So much so that I will not lie to them and tell them what they are doing is ok. They know very well how I feel about them, and they also know how I feel about their actions. That does not mean I reject them, only their actions. We all have our crosses to bear and face temptations. While some struggle with greed, power, selfishness, others struggle with lust, same or opposite sex lust, and others struggle with unforgivingness, anger, deception, etc. All are sin related and all are paths to destruction.

          • Jeremy L

            I hope these alleged gay people in your life have cut you off. You are misguided and have no capacity to make any moral judgments because you blindly accept a black and white morality.

          • Jeremy L

            Don’t act like you didn’t mean to imply that gay couples don’t love each other with your samctimonious “emotions are fleeting” speech.

          • GPS Daddy

            No, Jeremy, I was not implying that. I did not speak to that. You made love just an emotion. I was pointing out that love is primarily NOT an emotion.

          • Jeremy L

            Yep! Love is not primarily an emotion. If I said it was, I meant to say it is not incompatible with homosexuality – which it isn’t.

          • GPS Daddy

            homosexual sexual love denies what sex is for. that hurts not only the people involved but also hurts society. society needs to have a clear picture of what family is. The stronger families are the stronger society is. The weaker families are the weaker society is. Family has been weakened over the decades by many thing. SSM is the latest arrow shot at the family.

          • John Connor

            SSM does not weaken or affect the family structure. My marriage and family have not been affected in the least. SSM is just another type of family unit which pose no harm to anyone or anything

          • GPS Daddy

            Not true, John.

          • Jeremy L

            You really don’t understand what a family even is, do you? Families come in all forms and they get their strength from love, not heterosexuality. Your cold and sadly narrow idea of “family” is vapid.

          • Katherine

            Yes, I agree. My husband’s homosexual cousin died not long ago of an auto-immune disorder. Over his last months of illness, his partner of many years looked after him with great devotion. At the funeral (in a conservative church) his partner was treated with great respect and affection, and has become a part of my cousin-in-law’s family. I don’t think anyone questioned the existence of love. But at the same time I don’t think anyone asserted that the way he lived (and consequent premature death) was consistent with his highest physical or spiritual good, or that the relationship was equivalent in every respect to the sort of relationship which can spontaneously produce new human beings.

        • Jeremy L

          Also, gay people are not defined by their sexual emotions. You define them by their sexual emotions to dehumanize them.the fact that they want to be with the person they love doesn’t make them defined by their sexuality anymore than a man and woman being together means they are defined by their sexuality. And no, we are never going to have a problem with people not having kids. That’s an idiotic thing to say. Kids need a mother and father? Yes. Or two mothers. Or two fathers. Or whatever other arrangement. So long as they have a loving family.

          • GPS Daddy

            >>Or two mothers. Or two fathers

            Not so, Jeremy, Children need one father and one mother. They have a right to it.

          • Trilemma

            Where did you get this idea that children have a right to one father and one mother? If that were true, the government would have to require single parents to remarry.

          • GPS Daddy

            It clear from the way life is. Now there are tragedies in life like loosing a parent before your of age. There are kids that are orphaned. All of these situations do not speak to the created order. Life is designed so that it takes one female and one male to make a kid. That kid then has one father and one mother, their birth parents. It clear that the kids has a right to those relationships. SSM denies this principle.

          • John Connor

            What children need more than anything are people who love and care for them. Same sex couples are more than capable.

          • GPS Daddy

            Children need their mother and their father. Not having that is known to cause problems in life for the child. But you have no right to redefine what a child needs.

          • eddiestardust

            Better do some reading and talking to folks who lost one or both parents at a young age….

          • Kevin Carr

            Have you seen a recent article by a young woman raised by two lesbians? She stated that she missed not having a father and there are others like her. What do you tell someone like her? Besides the way children get here is by male female unions, that is how God designed it. Children actually are a repudiation of the homosexual lifestyle, because they are products of only heterosexuals.

          • John Connor

            It’s one woman’s experience. It doesn’t apply to everyone. Gays have kids all the time via IVF and surrogates.

          • Kevin Carr

            She has a group of others that say the same. But still you are saying the child’s feelings on this don’t matter? They are trumped by what you want?

          • John Connor

            I never said a child’s feelings don’t matter.

          • Kevin Carr

            Why would they want them? Children are products of heterosexual unions, by being they repudiate the gay lifestyle.

          • John Connor

            Not at all and it isn’t a lifestyle, unless you know something that no one else does.
            Why would they not want children? Kids are a joy! It must be a burden to have so much disdain for others

          • Kevin Carr

            Who has disdain? Can two men or two women bring the same things to a child’s life that a man and a woman bring?

          • John Connor

            Yes

          • Kevin Carr

            Men and women are different, men and women bring different qualities to a child’s life. Men and women parent differently.

          • John Connor

            That doesn’t mean that a gay couple cannot be good parents.

          • Kevin Carr

            Again, do two men or two women bring the same things to a child’s life as a man and a woman? They still by their very existence repudiate the lifestyle or however you want to define it.

          • John Connor

            They don’t repudiate anything. Same sex families are more than capable of parenting children. It’s been going on for years. Studies show that children in these families are well adjusted, do well in school, have no significant emotional issues, etc I guess you’re one of those who would rather kids who are up for adoption be denied a family based on them being same sex. Other than biblical reasons, I have no idea why you and others like you would deny a same sex couple the opportunity to have a family.

          • Kevin Carr

            They do, same sex couples cannot produce children.

          • John Connor

            Yes they can. In-vitro, artificial insemination, surrogates. Just like infertile heterosexuals

          • Kevin Carr

            Not naturally, infertile couples are that way not by choice but because there is a biological aberration.

          • John Connor

            So??

          • Kevin Carr

            As I said before, children aren’t natural to same sex couples. God designed it so that only male and female unions can reproduce. If your homosexuality is “natural”, then it is natural for homosexuals to be childless.

          • John Connor

            Nonsense

          • Kevin Carr

            What is nonsense? Explain please.

          • Trilemma

            Ideally, children should be raised by their birth parents and extended families. As you said, tragedies do happen. Nobody has a right to a tragedy free life. For example, nobody has a right to a cancer free life just because it doesn’t speak to the created order. Likewise, children do not have a right to be raised by their birth parents.

            However, children do have a right to a healthful environment. If you can prove that children being raised by same sex couples are harmed simply because the couples are the same sex, then you would have an argument against same couples raising children.

          • John Connor

            They don’t have a right to two parents much less two opposite sex parents.

          • GPS Daddy

            Oh yes they do John. They most certainly do.

          • John Connor

            Show us your proof

          • GPS Daddy

            John, its clear from the way life is. You can deny this all you want but life demands that it takes one man and one woman to produce a child. That child needs their mother and father and you nor anyone else has any right to redefine that relationship. That is the child’s right. But John, you deny much about what life is. This is just another part of your denial.

          • eddiestardust

            You most certainly did so why are you saying no one else deserves that right?

          • John Connor

            No I didn’t.

        • John Connor

          The attempt to make babies is not a prerequisite for sex. Some folks have zero interest in having kids even though they’re married. There’s no requirement for it.

          • GPS Daddy

            John, get with the game. Sex is Designed for procreation.

          • John Connor

            And pleasure. Just because one can make babies doesn’t mean they have to.

          • GPS Daddy

            That leads to procreation.

          • John Connor

            Not with contraception

          • GPS Daddy

            Contraceptives are not 100%… unless you consider abortion a contraceptive.

          • GPS Daddy

            John, you claim to work in the medical field… surly you know that the purpose of sex is procreation… you did cover that in your medical classes, right?

          • John Connor

            The purpose of sex is either procreation or pleasure.

      • Katherine

        Hi Jeremy,
        I guess I’m a bit less of a fan of ‘being in love’ as a foundation for a life together than I was as a younger person – it’s a great ‘glue’ while people are establishing a foundation, but it’s amazing how the strands of daily routine, household stuff, needs of children, possibly faith, shared anxieties, etc. etc. can solidify a relationship. (Or break it up, no matter how ‘in love’ they were to begin with. Determined commitment is at least equally useful). If a straight man fell genuinely in love with another person’s wife, say, how much would that love be the determining factor in what he should do next? I think a person needs more of an ethical framework than just following ‘love’ wherever it leads. That’s quite seriously counter-cultural though.
        A lot depends too on what ‘love’ means. In regular life, it usually signifies overwhelming romantic interest. A Christian ethic would not stop at this but would connect love to the good of the other. So perhaps an important question could be ‘is my pursuing this relationship consistent with the highest well-being of the other person?’
        Anyway, if you or someone close to you feels sincerely in love with a person of the same sex, I respect that the prospect of not pursuing that would be very painful. But I think there are pathways that seem to promise wholeness which, in the long run, don’t. I hope you find ultimate wholeness.

        • Jeremy L

          Of course love cannot endure on romantic affection alone, even if that affection is a part of what forms a relationship. There will always be challenges to overcome in a relationship. But surely homosexual couples can overcome such challenges and “act” as well as “feel” love, remaining faithful in the face of every temptation and difficulty. You even acknowledge this in your post about your husband’s cousin. But even if true love is acknowledged to exist between homosexual couples, you would say that this love is not the ideal, correct? That there is a higher “spiritual” quality to heterosexuality? And yet we see separation, adultery, and casual sex running rampant among heterosexuals. We see people who do not truly love each other producing children, much to the detriment of those children. Our sentimental minds may like to think otherwise, but mindless lust, sadly, can produce children as well as true love can. Do I acknowledge the risks of some sex acts homosexual couples might do? Yes. But I also acknowledge that all sex has risks, with some activities higher risk than others. Nowadays, we’ve gotten better at preventing diseases and unwanted pregnancies. I don’t know when your husband’s cousin passed away, but AIDs is not an epidemic nor a death sentence anymore, and monogamy and consciousness of safer sex practices are more present in the gay community than ever. In the end, I think the quality of the couple’s love is what should be seen as most important. Any sexual difficulty they may have is unfortunate, but not unmanageable.

          Thank you for expressing a measured opinion, even though I don’t agree with it fully. Many friends of mine have fallen in love with someone of the same sex and have never known the joy of that love being reciprocated. I know a few gay friends who I definitely see as having found wholeness in their same-sex relationships. What I ultimately seek to combat is the notion that people like these friends are mere sexual hedonists, a stereotype I’m glad you don’t buy into.

          • Katherine

            Jeremy, I don’t doubt that, statistically, the vast majority of sins of lust and sexual cruelty committed on the planet today will be performed in a heterosexual context. And we all carry the capacity for great love as well as for dreadful crimes, whatever our context is – that’s part of our complex humanity.
            We all know examples of terrible abuse within ‘traditional’ families, because people have free will. Where I would disagree with you is in regarding the orientation of people’s relationship – whether it’s homosexual or heterosexual – as a neutral thing, within which it only matters whether kindness or cruelty is happening.
            Like so much stuff, everything depends on your big picture. Am I here as an individual to extract the maximum self-fulfillment from my own short life? Should I see guidelines of history, tradition and faith as designed to be repressive or protective? Is there just one person in the world who could ever make me happy? What is the meaning of my body? Is it just a transport system for my self-determined identity? How important is it for me to avoid suffering? What does my whole life actually mean? Sorry if that all sounds a bit pompous but I honestly think that questions like these are foundational.
            All the best, Jeremy.

  • Andrew Mason

    Does there need to be a language change to make the distinction between the person and their lifestyle choice? The modern definition of gay for instance is defective, broken, inappropriate, lame, foolish etc. Obviously you don’t want to refer to people as gay, though I suppose it is true that every person is broken in various ways. Could you talk about homophiles instead perhaps? To talk about homosexual Christians always always strikes me the wrong way since Scripture is quite clear that homosexuals do not pass the pearly gates, and thus cannot be Christian. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying Christians cannot struggle with same sex attraction, but to be a homosexual is akin to being an adulterer or a liar – a lifestyle you choose to practice in defiance of God.

    • Robert Ward

      Andrew – this is an insightful comment. As a man similar to Joseph Sciambra…when I talk to my male friends about myself, I just use the term “man-oriented”. It doesn’t detract from my traditional Roman Catholic reputation as a chaste, celibate single tradRC bachelor layman. It just describes myself that all my main relationships will be with other chaste, celibate (or perhaps married living alone or widower) adult men.
      Yes, I agree with you strongly that the terms “homosexual” or “gay” are attacks on the man-oriented man’s personal morality and his hopes of heaven. The Most Holy and Perfect Trinity did create me for a purpose and I destroy that perfect heaven-bound purpose by pretending that breaking his 10 Commandments will lead anywhere to loss of Faith, loss of health/sanity, loss of salvation.

  • bob

    you cannot be an unrepentant sinner and be with God. We are all born sinners. God’s Word says to resist your sins never to embrace them.

  • Baseballmomof8

    Always grateful for Joseph’s courage and willingness to speak Truth to a powerful and ultimately dangerous sector of the population. Thank you Joe, prayers continue for you every day.

  • Robert Ward

    Joseph Sciambra and John Zmirak, thanks for this tremendous breath of fresh air and truth so horrendously lacking in today’s pagan, suffering, confused foolish world. I say this as a man-oriented tradRC single bachelor layman who was (like Joe) in the pagan “gay” (anything but !) or “homosexual” world filled to the brim with suffering men…yet another confused, sinful, suffering, lonely (but untouched by STDs/AIDs…for which I am now eternally indebted to the Most Holy Trinity and My Mother Mary)…”gay” man…who eventually got to a point of suffering and fear (of disease and long-term intractable loneliness)…that I eventually starting praying again…particularly the holy rosary of the BVM…and was open (eventually) to the eternal Truths of Traditional Roman Catholic Christianity…and thereby returned back to the spiritual life of my (modest) tradRC catechesis of my 1960s comfortable WashDC childhood.
    To all reading this: We men-oriented men (note how carefully I distinguish the fact that my main chaste, celibate, Christ-centered and Christ-oriented male relationships are the primary ones in my permanent bachelor life with the fact that I now know what the serious truth is for me to save my immortal soul: Traditional Roman Catholic Christianity being the sole true religious Faith, which demands strict obedience to the 6th and 9th commandment: chastity and celibacy for the unmarried) need very much (particularly when the man-oriented man is 18-24 [due to the very high/extremely high prevelance of AIDS infections in that age cohort] …need very much the TRUE FAITH…Traditional Roman Catholic Christianity.
    Remember we are men (men-oriented men nonetheless)…but still men. We need persons in our lives to encourage us in prayer to the Holy Mother of God and TRUST in Divine Providence that if we stick with it..and clean up our lives and then seriously attempt to remove all occasions of sin and regularly attend to the tradRC sacraments of PENANCE and COMMUNION OF THE BLESSED SACRAMENT…God will send us guys to befriend (tradRC chaste guys, of course) and the Most Holy Trinity will show us what they wants us to do to then gain heaven.
    This is what this strange, small class of men-oriented men need…the TRUE FAITH !
    We are just sinful men who are (like our women-oriented brothers) heavily ATTACKED by our teams of devils towards the sins of impurity. Nothing special here. We DESPERATELY need other tradRC guys to PRAY WITH…our sensitive, emotional natures need PRAYER with other guys…particularly the prayers of the rosary and the graces that the BVM will send to us to stabilize us in CELIBACY and CHASTITY.
    If the man-oriented guy DOESN’T GET THAT…he falls prey to the lies of the devils around him…and the trick that performing high-dangerous and harmful “homosexual” sex acts with other guys in some sort of close “homosexual” or “gay” relationship will make him happy. That sensitive, emotional and man-oriented man is SERIOUSLY DELUDED, but he doesn’t know it/doesn’t want to acknowledge it/doesn’t believe that breaking the 10 Holy Commandments will make him happy.
    Please don’t misunderstand me. Say the guy DOES accept the world’s ONLY TRUE FAITH: Traditional Roman Catholic Christianity and start praying his rosary with gusto…he will have a d*mn hard time breaking FREE (at last with God’s holy grace !) from the terrible bad habits he has accrued over the years through his hardened sinful pro-gay or pro-homosexual nature…but…deep-inside (DEEP-INSIDE HIM!) he knows that the holy rosary and CHASTITY and CELIBACY and sacrificing himself for other men…(or whatever else Our Lady and Lord want him to sacrifice himself for)…is TRULY LOVING the main guys in his life !! He now sees that that the commission of mortal sins of sodomitical LUST with another guy truly harms the other guys’ chances (and his own too, natch) of ETERNAL SALVATION (the other guy sees it too).
    This is truly the truth about these (dare I say the word MONASTIC) male personalities.
    They are just men who sin and like all male/female sinners in this fallen (but redeemed by efficacious grace) world…they have to FIGHT AGAINST the (1) WORLD (2) FLESH and the (3) DEVIL to attain eternal bliss in Heaven through winning the reward of the Beatific Vision given to a chaste, celibate (for the permanently unmarried) bachelor (or bachelorette) devout and pious, Christ-centered pre-1962 TRADITIONAL ROMAN CATHOLIC CHRISTIAN LIFE…that is the TRUTH as far as this man-oriented guy can state it.
    Any man-oriented guy is still (at the end of the day)…a GUY. He can obey the 10 Commandments and the 6 commendments of Holy Mother (tradRC) church or NOT. He can live a dead-serious tradRC chaste, celibate life as a man-oriented guy an sacrifice his bachelor life for something the Most Holy Trinity and His Immaculate Mother show him…or NOT.
    In the end he chooses as we all choose EACH and EVERY DAY: HEAVEN OR HELL
    TRUTH OR FALSEHOOD
    TRUE LOVE (Chaste, beautiful, pure self-sacrificing LOVE) for his fellow man…or SELF-ABSORBED, Destructive, narsicisstic (sp?) SODOMITIC LUST
    Ok, pray a HAIL MARY for me that I keep FIGHTING my devils until the moment of my death.
    I promise to do the same for you. LIFE is a FIGHT until the moment of death.
    Thanks for reading this. -RobW

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