Univision’s Jorge Ramos had Pastor Sammy Rodríguez on his weekly show Al Punto with the apparent purpose of getting the evangelical leader to call Donald Trump a racist.

Rev. Rodríguez, president of the National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference, was one of the evangelical leaders who met with Trump in Manhattan recently. Although he hasn’t endorsed Trump, Ramos treated him as a Trump surrogate, pressing him on Trump’s comments regarding Mexicans and Muslims. “Is it not racist, Reverend, saying that Mexicans are criminals and rapists?” Ramos asked. “Is that not racism?”

Rodríguez responded by insisting racism isn’t restricted to one candidate only. “Is it not racism to have multiple generations depending on the government for their income without giving them opportunity to rise above and succeed?” he said. “Is that not racism?”

The interview, which was conducted entirely in Spanish, follows below:
 

 
“There is implicit and explicit racism, and I have suffered from both racisms,” Rev. Rodríguez said. “So for me, we have to be careful in describing that every word is racist, because in both campaigns I would be able to evaluate comments that could be evaluated as racist comments or political myopia.”

In the interview he reiterated that he hasn’t endorsed Trump or Clinton but wants both candidates to know where the Hispanic evangelicals he represents stand on important issues. “I will not endorse any of the candidates, Hillary or Donald, but I’m going to communicate with both of them to introduce the importance of the Latino faith community,” Rev. Rodríguez said.