Grandparenting Well
In this 16-minute episode of The Malm Podcast, Joël and his dad, Rick, dive into the joys and challenges of grandparenting. They explore the unique role grandparents play in a child’s life — from offering wisdom and perspective to sometimes stepping in when parents are unable to guide a child well. Drawing on biblical principles and personal stories, they discuss when grandparents should guide, when to step back, and how multigenerational influence can strengthen families. It’s a heartfelt, humorous, and practical conversation about navigating family dynamics with love and purpose.
Editor’s Note: The transcript that follows was automatically generated and lightly edited, so please be aware there could be typos or other small errors. The Stream is working toward a transcription service that does fast, accurate, and reliable work; thank you in advance for your patience!
(00:05) [Music] Hey, hey. Welcome to the podcast again. I am Joël here with my dad and I’m Rick. And what do you want to talk about today, Joël? What’s on the agenda? Well, we’re doing the parenting thing. Talking about mountains this year. And what greater mountain than parenting? That’s a big one. Yeah.
(00:22) Sometimes children can feel like uh raising them feels like an impossible mountain you’re climbing. you made a joke on the last episode. Uh we were we were talking uh actually there was two episodes actually ago where we were talking about can you be friends with your kid and you said well you can be once you’re a grandparent that’s your job is to spoil them but when you’re a parent uh that’s not your job.
(00:45) That was a joke. Well okay. So that was my point. I wanted to see I wanted to talk about you know you’ve been a grandparent now for well it’s coming up on 16 years I think. Gadia, the oldest grandchild, she’s going to be 16. Uh, so I want to talk about grandparenting. I want to talk about how do you be a good grandparent because I know um, man, I’ve talked to a lot of people lately that who are in a really awkward situation where their kids uh, have really washed out in life and they’ve found themselves kind of raising Yeah.
(01:16) their their grandchild. They’ve taken on that responsibility and a lot of them say, “Man, I didn’t think I was going to have to do this again, but we feel like this is the right thing to do.” Yeah. So that would not be the optimal situation, but it’s better than um you know being raised I guess by somebody who’s incapable of being a parent.
(01:32) But I want to talk about kind of first of all what do you feel the role of a grandparent is? And when a grandparent’s role becomes to step in and when should a grandparent step in and guide in more of a parenting leading the child role. Wow. Yeah. That’s heavy, right? Yeah. That’s a Yeah, because there’s a lot of situations because I have other friends who are uh kind of raising their kids more like providing daycare so their kids can work which is brilliant.
(01:58) I mean I think that’s amazing. I’ve seen a lot of I noticed after co a lot of families moved back to their hometowns so they could have the support of their family which probably is a net positive all the time thing. Yeah. Yeah. Because you know whenever we um whenever we evaluate a situation or try to come up with something uh our natural thing is basically to limit it to what we know in our own culture and well this is what we’ve done or this is what I’ve observed in my culture.
(02:22) And of course um that’s a very small perspective. I don’t care I 70 years old but still I’ve only seen a very small perspective as far as life and as far as history of the world goes and things. So, it’s always important that we look beyond what our personal experience is. And uh I think we well, fortunately, we have a standard to go by because I of course I can’t be familiar with every culture of the world.
(02:45) Not every culture of the world is right. There’s things in every culture that are right and wrong. So, long and short of it, um in the scripture, God has given us what a biblical culture ought to look like, what a godly culture ought to look like. Now, the Jews didn’t always do a good job of it, but he said, “Here’s the way it should react.
(03:01) Here’s how here’s how the law should be enforced. all this and that. So, we can go back to the scripture and you find that in our culture, the involvement of grandparents is kind of an optional thing. That’s kind of nice, but if I get a better job cross country or whatever, you know, it just whatever.
(03:18) Um, we we’re very mobile society more than most. You know, many families, this is what’s going on in Gaza today. My grand great great great grandfather lived here and my grandfather lived here and it’s not easy for me to just give up this land because I’m a part of it, it might say. So anyway, the long and short of that is that it’s it’s a very positive thing and it’s a I believe it’s a godly thing that our kids are influenced by more than one generation and and a multi-generational impact is really important. Yeah. Like what you
(03:47) were saying, it’s probably an overall positive thing that CO drove families kind of back together again. Yeah. Yeah. It makes me think, it’s kind of ironic we’re talking about CO, but it also makes me think of China, the longest civilization. Yeah. 5,000 years of civilization and traditionally uh the grandparents move in with the family like pretty promptly to be part of raising the children and you see it’s been this consistent 5,000 years of civilization and you wonder if part of that is the honor your father and your
(04:15) mother that you may live long upon the earth when you honor God’s principles. Uh that’s now what’s interesting is for the first time in China’s history, they’re having literally in the first time in 5,000 years, they’re creating retirement old folks homes because they had a one child policy for many years and they made they they raised little worker bees that want to sort of be capitalist communists and so they’re all working and nobody wants to care for their family anymore. So they’ve got a
(04:36) unique problem on their hands for the first time in civilization. But traditionally, the grandparents were revered. They were respected as bringing something to the table. And not only that, they were brought into the home and they obviously helped with their part, but the they all the family also helped care for the grandparents. Yeah.
(04:52) Yeah. And and China is beginning to suffer the consequences of that economically, socially, in all different ways of not having that anymore. Of not having that that generational influence and of their you know one child policy as well. So uh and in fact you know economists are concerned about the US because we haven’t had a one child policy but we certainly have uh put a thumbs down on reproducing and having children. You’re destroying the world.
(05:19) You’re filling the world with all these little bitty uh creatures that are going to destroy the world. Uh it’s nuts. But anyway, that’s not the point. Yeah. And say we can do that on another topic. I want to talk about grandparents. Grandparenting. You know, it’s it’s interesting because um again, one thing we do know from scripture and from um more established cultures is that the influence of grandparents is very important because again, well, like I opened up with the idea that it’s
(05:46) important that we have a longer perspective on the world than just what we’ve seen. Mhm. And I know I think there’s a connection here. When I was pastoring, I would use some examples and you and Jonathan, Dad, you got to pick another example because nobody even knows what you’re talking about.
(06:02) You know, well, everybody remembers where they were when John F. Kennedy was shot. Uh, no. A whole bunch of people weren’t even alive. So, you’re talking generational relevance. So, generational understanding, gener Well, it’s always been this way. Well, no, it really hasn’t been. In my lifetime, I’ve seen a lot of change that it that a lot of people would think, well, it’s always been this way.
(06:25) And so that generational influence is important that we we get a broader perspective than just what we live. Now as far as um well I right or wrong I’m not real sure about this one but I know our approach has kind of been to unless we is to kind of be there as an advisor. In other words, we’re not going to impose upon you.
(06:47) If we see that you’re really doing something kind of damaging, we might kind of step in and say, “Hey, why don’t you consider this from this perspective?” Doing damage something damaging to your child, right, that you’re seeing. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But fortunately, all three of our, you know, you three guys are guys and two guys and a gal are uh he’s doing a really good job, you know.
(07:05) In fact, sometimes your mom and I look at each other and go, “Man, they’re doing a better job than we did.” You know, um I guess because we could see all of our flaws and all of our faults, you know. But I was thinking about this the other day because uh I was thinking about with Elise and stuff she’s learning from you and she’s like, “Oh, papa taught me that.
(07:20) ” I’m like, “Oh, good.” Because I didn’t think to teach you that. Uh but it made me think of my papa, which is what we called my mom’s dad, and how much time I spent with him when I was right about her age, 9, 10, 11. I mean, he put me to work mowing lawns. He’d take me everywhere. I mean, he like everything I would do with him.
(07:39) He taught me when you shake somebody’s hand, you look them in the eye, and you shake shake with a firm handshake. He never taught me that, right? Uh but he did. And I thought, wow, there is that element of you. There’s so much to learn. I don’t know that one person can teach it all. And that is the gift of grandparents.
(07:52) If they are active and available in their life, hopefully they’re teaching these values like hard work. Like my grandpa, he would pay me, you know, a dollar. Back then it was a dollar to mow the lawn, a dollar to go out and trim the trees or whatever. And that really taught me the value of work. And Alise is begging for that now.
(08:08) I’m realizing I’m realizing um Papa was that for me what she’s learning she’s learning a lot of different stuff from you like a lot of she was telling me something like oh papa read me that story I was like I didn’t even know y’all had done that. So there’s this element of it’s it’s got to be a multi-angle approach in teaching a child and she’s going to receive stuff from you that even if I say it she wouldn’t receive it from me.
(08:30) Well that’s true too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the other side of that is that when we’re with our kids as a parent we’re with them all the time. I know. And we many times don’t observe uh what would you say objectively to be able to really see an area where something maybe needs to be done. That’s true, man.
(08:49) Because it’s so hard when you’re in the trenches. You’re like, uh just trying to get through the day. But you can see kind of long I often come to you and go, “Dad, I’m really concerned about this.” When you’re like, and you always you’ll often say, “Not from what I’ve seen.
(09:00) I don’t think you need to be concerned about that. I usually go the other extreme. I’m worried about stuff that maybe I don’t need to worry about yet.” Yeah. Well, and so again, there there’s that there’s that other perspective. So again, we we try not to really step in because um you know, again, she is your daughter.
(09:18) She’s our granddaughter, but you’re with her all the time and you’re in other words, she’s kind of a mix of you and Emily. And so she’s going to have a different personality and some you’re going to see different way you’re going to have a better idea of how to react to that personality and respond to that personal if that makes sense.
(09:34) Yeah. Okay. I just a question just came to my mind. I want to ask it before I forget it. I’ve talked to a lot of parents recently who they don’t trust their own parents, the grandparents of their children to care for their children. What is the responsibility of uh you’re going to be biased on this, but what is the responsibility of a parent to give their grand their time time to their grand to their parents? But there’s a lot of Yeah.
(09:58) What what is the responsibility to give if you don’t trust your parents, right? You just say, “I don’t trust the way they handle them and I don’t trust they’re going to keep care for them. I don’t trust they’re not going to give them sugar or something bad for them.
(10:10) ” Right? What do what is the responsibility? Is there a biblical responsibility uh for us to give our give grandparents time with their grandchildren? Well, I think the biblical respons primarily be to care for our children and protect them. So, I mean, if your parents are really dangerous, you know, now I mean the sugar thing, it’s like maybe you need to chill. That’s dangerous.
(10:30) Highly dangerous. Oh yeah, Elise was ask RFK. Ask Elise. I’m in the store with her and I’m getting ready to get this. She’s She looks at the contest. She Papa, you can’t get this. It has high fructose corn syrup in it. That’s dangerous. Oh, brother. This is what kids talk about these days.
(10:47) She’s got this friend that can’t eat any artificial dyes or she’ll like die or something. So, they talk about that. So, Lisa’s like, “Dad, is there red number whatever in this?” And I’m like, “Who knows?” Yeah. So, I guess the learning goes both ways. Okay.
(11:00) So that but that’s an interesting question because a lot of people say, “Well, I don’t trust they’re not going to give them food that’s bad for them. She’s going to feed them macaroni and cheese or whatever.” Is that enough of an excuse to not give them time with their their grandkids? Probably not.
(11:13) I mean, I do think that a parent a grandparent needs to respect the wishes of the parents. So if they say, “Look, please don’t give her sugar. I don’t want her all wired up or something.” Then you know, as a grandparent, just respect that. You know, this is this is the child. The parent is the one responsible for the child.
(11:30) So, and I think most grandparents would respect that, you know. Um, I mean, if they don’t, then and if they continually don’t, then maybe you do need to re say revoke that that privilege or that time or limit the time to when you’re there with them, you know, because I they they still do need to know their grandparents.
(11:48) And I would think a grandparent rather than lose the privilege of spending time with their kid would say, “Okay, I’ll cut the sugar out.” You know, or and I’m sure sugar is the most minimal thing. Yeah. Um, you know. Yeah. But that’s a big deal for people these days. I guess it is. It’s probably more like you let them play with a machete or stuff like that’s kind of what in our family more the dangerous things would be. Yeah.
(12:10) I mean, papa had me driving the other day saw a guy in a riding lawn mower and she’s like, “Wow, dad, you think I could ever drive one of those?” I was like, “I did when I was nine.” Like, yeah. Yeah. And we were watching some old videos of you whacking something with a machete when you were like certain age.
(12:22) I’m thinking that was really dumb of us. If you miss that thing, you’d have whacked your knee. But anyway, you survived. Let’s jump into this idea of your children are not capable of raising your grandkids. And so either I mean a lot of people I know by court order, right? The grandparents have said we’ll step in or the parent is incapacitated because of addiction.
(12:40) What is the grandparents role? Do they take on the role of a parent at that point or do they still have to How do they navigate that? Well, that’s a tough one. I don’t I don’t really I don’t really know. I would think you couldn’t step in as a grandparent if you’re going to do that full-time, though, because you’ve got to have the authority to be able to discipline.
(13:00) And and you know, you can’t step in with a hi, I’m the fun one to be here with. You got to step in with the with the authority to be able to do what’s necessary. Because a lot of times with your kids, you have to do things they’re not going to like. Mhm. And and they’re going to not like you when you do it.
(13:14) So, which we talked about that in that two episodes ago about respect precedes love. Kids have to respect you before they love you. Right. Yeah. Exactly. And they don’t really understand love anyway. So, you just have to do what’s right for them. Now, do it with the right attitude. Do with a loving and a kind attitude or do it nicely. But you just have to do it.
(13:31) And the thing is, when you have the authority, you don’t have to get upset. You don’t have to be mad. You don’t have to be ugly about it. You have the authority. Just step in and this is the way it is. And when we do, this is another topic, but when we do get angry, it’s usually because we’ve waited too long to really exercise the authority.
(13:51) And so we uh so but anyway to answer your question I would think yeah I would think you’d have to step in as a as a parent recognize you’re a grandparent because you’re not going to have the energy to so yeah that’s my question is is it say you don’t feel like you’ve got the capacity the energy to step in in this role.
(14:07) Is it a moral obligation to step in? I don’t really think it would be. I think it’d be more of a um a love familial desire to do that to raise your kids you know. Um, I don’t I’m I’m flashing through the rolodex here. Again, a reference nobody understands trying to think of a scriptural reference.
(14:28) You’re running through the hard drive. There you go. The hard drive. The hard drive. Mine’s more of a rolodex. It’s pretty slow. I mean, that’s the thing. It’s like when family cultures uh and family structures fall apart in terms of the way that they were ordained to be, right? Like they were set up.
(14:43) Uh you you face all these new sorts of complicated problems. My father-in-law always says this, sin complicates life. It does. Uh so it’s the idea that we we’re there’s the ideal, but then there’s also these challenges we face of you have to deal with the real. And you know, I mean, one that just popped up is the idea of if a woman uh if a woman’s husband died, the brother of the husband would step in to care for that family and and take her take on responsibility for that.
(15:12) So, so there is some biblical precedent for um it being a responsibility. Now, that’s not the parents, but that would be a brother, of course, if there’s no brother involved or something, you know. Um Yeah. It’s it’s it just complicates life. And sometimes, you know, here’s the thing is there’s the ideal, boy, this would be wonderful.
(15:30) This would be perfect. But then there’s reality. Yeah. And and sometimes you just have to live well, sometimes, always, you just have to live with reality. Don’t take your eye off the ideal. This is what we’d love. this is the way we’d like it to be. And we’re going to try and even if though we’re have to living in reality, let’s see how close we can come to the ideal. But you got to live with reality.
(15:49) And sometimes it’s just it’s it’s messy. It’s ugly. It really is. Life’s not that clean when we as we all are when we involved in sin. So final question. What’s the best part of being a grandparent? Uh best part of being a grandparent. I just love spending, you know, we love spending time with the kids.
(16:09) They uh they do wear you out, but uh watching them grow up and we love you spending time with the kids. Well, and it’s great. It is good. It’s it’s fun kind of reminding us of what it was like being with the kid, but being able to also um uh send them home when the time is right.
(16:26) And hope none of the grandkids heard that one. Thanks for listening. Please consider sharing this with your friends on the platform of your choice. For more from Joël Malm, visit joëlmalm.com. For more from Rick Malm, visit rickmalm.com. Our podcast music was produced by Alex Berles.