Gay Totalitarianism and the Coming Persecution of Christians

Hatred of the Gospel is boiling over into the vilification of Christians. State violence won't be far behind, history teaches.

The full force of the federal, state and local governments will soon be turned against defenders of biblical Christianity. Will we resist or collaborate?

By John Zmirak Published on April 1, 2015

If you have been following mass media over the past few days, you will have learned from an economist at the U.S. Department of Labor that defenders of religious freedom are “Nazis.” Take a moment to ponder that assertion. Roll it around in your head for a while. You’ll be hearing a lot more fighting words as we enter the next phase of Christian life in America.

Sample the hate that has been spewed at the state of Indiana in the past week, and faithful Christians in recent years, by gay activists and their allies. We are “bigots,” “Neanderthals” and “haters,” whose views must be ritually rejected by anyone hoping to keep a job in today’s America — even in a Catholic high school. Where will this end? Is there a logical stopping point for this aggression, where Christians are left in peace?

History teaches that mass vilification rarely stops short of spilling blood. The French Jacobins who spent the 1780s slandering the clergy in pornographic pamphlets went on in the 1790s to slaughter Christians by the hundreds of thousands. The Turks paved the way for killing a million Armenian Christians with a wave of propaganda. The Bolsheviks followed their “anti-God” crusade of the 1920s with starvation camps and firing squads. The Communist governments of Eastern Europe obeyed the same script, as scholar Anne Applebaum documents in her sobering study The Iron Curtain. The Hutu government of Rwanda prepared for its assault on the once-powerful Tutsis by incessantly describing them as “cockroaches” on radio broadcasts, which triggered a genocide.

If the media, the law and our elite institutions succeed in lumping Christian sexual morals in with white racism, how long will it be before believing Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox (and many religious minorities) find themselves labelled as members of “extremist sects,” no more to be trusted with the care of their own children than the Branch Davidians were?

Does that sound crazy to you? Then ask yourself why the German government, and the European Court of Human Rights, felt justified in seizing a Christian home-schooled student — with the apparent approval of the Obama administration. Think about the moral views you teach your own kids. Would your local education bureaucrats approve?

Perhaps Chicago’s cardinal, Francis George, wasn’t guilty of hyperbole when he said, “I expect to die in bed, my successor will die in prison and his successor will die a martyr in the public square.”

Joining him would be many Christians who affirm the Gospel in its integrity — instead of the neutered version that’s now sweeping the denominations to swell the ranks of the persecutors. See the Episcopalians and Presbyterians who are now blessing same-sex marriages; see “Catholic” universities such as Marquette, which fired a professor for defending the Catholic Catechism on this subject, and bishops such as Paul Bootkowski of Metuchen, N.J., who backed up a Catholic school that suspended a Catholic teacher for her Facebook comments critical of gay activism. With shepherds like these, who really needs wolves?

From Libertarian to Totalitarian in Twenty Years

It’s stunning how quickly the demands of gay activists went from libertarian (“Don’t arrest us for sodomy”) to totalitarian (“Take part in our weddings or we’ll destroy your livelihoods.”)

But I am not surprised. I was in New York City when the radical gay activists of ACT UP targeted John Cardinal O’Connor for upholding biblical teaching on sexuality — even as he spent millions offering free care for indigent victims of AIDS. The “Stop the Church” demonstrations featured images of O’Connor in Nazi uniform, and culminated on Dec. 10, 1989, in an orchestrated attack on St. Patrick’s Cathedral during a Mass, where gay militants shouted down the celebrant, and demanded Holy Communion — only to throw it down and stomp on the body of Christ.

This bigoted attack on a religious service did not discredit ACT UP; indeed, you can now read an article celebrating it courtesy of the U.S. government-sponsored Radio Free Europe. Here’s a triumphalist video of the event, which includes appalling footage inside the cathedral:

If Indiana caves and guts its religious freedom law — as Gov. Mike Pence has already promised — it will prove an equal triumph for those who are so enraged at Christian teaching that they are willing to persecute Christians.

If these zealots succeed, they will tear up the civil peace in this country, forcing millions of Americans to choose between church and state. If laws or government policies beggar Christian businesses, close Christian colleges and schools and force faithful Christians into third-class citizenship — making us virtual dhimmis, like the Christian Copts in Egypt — what should we do? What should be our response now that we know what they want to do, and are overplaying their hand, but before they complete their coup d’etat?

We need to ask ourselves some brutal questions: How should the faithful in the U.S. military respond? What about those in the state and local police? City, state and federal employees? What about religious shareholders in corporations led by anti-Christians, such as Apple?

Should we engage in large-scale, non-violent civil disobedience, as black Americans once did in the face of Jim Crow laws? We have the numbers to bring this country to a sudden screeching halt, if we can stand up to the media’s blows and spitting. Those who resist these unjust laws will be treated with all the violence and contempt that was poured out on the pro-life Operation Rescue in the 1980s and ’90s. Local cops from West Hartford, Connecticut, to Los Angeles, California, brutalized teenagers, old women, even nuns and pregnant mothers.

But we need not act alone, like these isolated bakers and florists. The marriage deconstructionists can only succeed by dividing us, vilifying us and picking us off one at a time. This is the essence of their strategy — they’re now trying it with an entire state. Tim Cook (or Apple’s shareholders) would backpedal in an instant if he learned the hard way that he was insulting and infuriating 2/3rds of American states, and half the population.

The frog must jump out of the pan, before it boils.

We should not let the possibility or even the likelihood of “failure” make us timid. Witness is utterly different from propaganda, more fragile but far more enduring.

For centuries, the early Christians endured far worse than we might face, dying in the Colosseum to the taunts of jeering crowds — whose grandchildren would flee the moral chaos of collapsing Rome and flock to the underground churches. All the persecution that a government like China can deal its native Christians has not stopped the church from exploding there, and striking fear at the highest levels of a totalitarian government. The battered church in Poland led the movement that brought down the Iron Curtain, through sober, persistent resistance.

Perhaps the future we face is the one that Cardinal George envisioned. Speaking of a future bishop who would someday die a martyr, George predicted, “His successor will pick up the shards of a ruined society and slowly help rebuild civilization, as the church has done so often in human history.” If we stand for eternity, then history is on our side.

For Part One of this analysis, see #Boycott Indiana: Same-Sex “Marriage” and the End of Tolerance in America.

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  • mollysdad

    The Roman Empire became Christian during the period from Constantine to Theodosius. At the time Christians were only ten per cent of the whole population.

    This provides a possible answer to the question of what should faithful Christians in the military do.

    That possible answer is that, if a government persecutes Christians, the military should overthrow it. There may come a time when violent persecutors should be challenged to a civil war. In that event, gay-bashing might have to become respectable again.

    • Joseph Arechavala

      Jihad

      • RCQ_92130

        Hate Filled Homos

    • Halou

      The literal translation of Jihad is simply ‘struggle’, there are no political or military qualifiers associated with it that make it strictly one thing or another. I studied this stuff at school and scored higher on Islam than I did on the Christianity test, which I failed.

      If you’re asthmatic and want to climb to the top of a hill, that’s a Jihad.
      If you’re overweight and are trying to go on a diet, that’s a Jihad.
      If you’re at college and studying extra hard for that higher grade, that’s a Jihad.
      If you’re working for a promotion or a pay rise, that’s also a Jihad.
      Jihads happen everywhere and there is literally nothing you can do to stop them.

      But just like the German word ‘kampf’ it’s meaning has been polluted by evil people doing evil things.

      • mollysdad

        The legal meaning of “jihad” is primarily a political-military one. It means a war to establish the religion, as you will read if you find the manual of IslamIc law “Reliance of the Traveller”.

    • Mark Mills

      Your response would have merit but for one exception. Thinking the military would overthrow the government. Look at the officers being purged from our armed forces and ask you self why the best and brightest are being forced out or leaving voluntarily. Ask you self what’s happening to military chaplains. Now, research Emperor Diocletian and the last great persecution of Christians. See how he issued directives to the legions which were untenable to Christians who served in the legions at this time. When he had successfully rid the legions of the Christian influence, he effectively used the legions to persecute the Christians.

      Please read about this. I have been trying to call people’s attention to this bit of history for a couple of years, now. I believe we are starting to experience these persecutions again. The faces may have changed, but their goals seem to be the same. To them, Christianity is an anathema. As for myself, I know their end game and I will not be afraid to espouse the truth whether they like it or not and as they say “damn the consequences. “

      • mollysdad

        There are a couple of differences between the Roman Empire under Diocletian and the USA of today. The first is that the USA is federally structured, which means that each of the States has its own government and a National Guard. The other is that persecution will not be directed against Christians only, but against everyone who affirms the truth about marriage according to reason.

        A further consideration is that Christians have the option of withdrawing co-operation with Homeland Security – in other words, to look the other way when the Muslims blow something up.

        An America which persecutes Christians is an America which is not worth defending and has lost its right to exist. Whatever comes out of it will be a new society which will be more similar to medieval Christendom than to the failed experiment of ordered liberty under law. By that I mean that there will still be religious liberty, but not freedom to dissent from truths of reason concerning marriage, family and human life.

        • Mark Mills

          You have a point, But as a Christian are you prepared to take the life of another when your physical life may not be in jeopardy? Will you lay down your life as the early Christians did or will you kill. I hope I would be willing to die for my faith. I pray I will never kill for it. After all, I am more than flesh and blood.

          • mollysdad

            A Christian is expected to lay down his life rather than deny Christ. But a Christian can also lawfully fight and kill in a just war, including in civil war, if that’s what it takes to defend the institution of marriage for the good of our children.

            And, yes, if I were an American (I’m English) I would fight and kill the agents of a persecuting homosexualist government, for they are criminals and public enemies, not enemies of the faith only.

  • BXVI

    Nah, most Christians have already apostasized. One denomination after another has caved to the gay agenda despite what the Gospel says. Virtually everyone will bow to the State rather than face the slightest inconvenience. The few who do stand up for the Truth with actions as well as words will indeed be persecuted. And the one institution with the ability to stand up to enforced secularism – the Catholic Church – is divided. There are legions of gay priests and bishops who are living a lie and will not hesitate to force a change once it is within their grasp. THAT will be the death-knell of Christianity. Killed by its own, from within. They already have most of the “people” behind them, and they are constantly agitating. I guess we’ll see at that point whether the Catholic Church’s claims of infallibility are true, or if she has been a fraud from the beginning.

  • Pollos Hermanos

    Oh dear. The level of hissy fits over the loss of Christian privilege is pegging the meters at 11. Sorry kids, you’ll have to be treated like everyone else from now on.

    • Mal

      Calm down! Don’t get too excited.

    • handgunnar

      Since when is not being compelled to approve of a repugnant behavior a “privilege”? It’s a RIGHT! You know, like the one you claim permits you to force a photographer to take part in a ritual against her will.

      • Pollos Hermanos

        A business license is a privilege, not a right. If you have one, you need to follow the laws of the state that issued it. It’s been that way for about 50 years. Keep up.

        • handgunnar

          Spoken like the supine supplicant of the state you obviously are. Your chains suit you.

          • Pollos Hermanos

            Your hissy fits are delicious and entertaining.

          • handgunnar

            Hissy fit? Isn’t that what you chicken hawks are throwing by demanding worship of your perversion?

          • Pollos Hermanos

            No, what we’re doing is winning. It’s quite fun.

          • handgunnar

            “Chicken brothers”. What an appropriate name.

          • Pollos Hermanos

            Oh do go on. Since you have nothing else.

  • Joseph Arechavala

    That would be awful. I’d truly hate to see real Christians killed because they’re lumped in with you folks.

    • RCQ_92130

      Doubtful. Your rage would compel you to cheer if ANY Christian were to be slaughtered – the more gruesome the better. To bad that Muslim burned alive in ISIS’s cage wasn’t Christian, huh? You could have been table dancing.

      • LT Brass Bancroft

        He probably table dances every night.

  • HenryBowers

    I loved this post. Thank you

  • Robbins Mitchell

    Big f@ggotry = f@g bigotry

  • TBP100

    Paranoia AND delusions of grandeur. It’s a BOGO!

  • Romulus

    Excellent and courageous, John. I fully expect that in 10 years it will be illegal to function as a Christian in much of the developed world, including the US. Surely many will cheer that.

    It is hard to name a country where the Church has never been persecuted — including many of the colonies that became the United States. Historically it is unreasonable to suppose that persecution, which came everyplace else, will spare us. We’re on the threshold of a time of terrible clarity.

  • Timothy O’Donnell

    Field report from Indiana.

    Gay man terrorizes grandmother for bein Catholic.

    I posted this true account on my FB page earlier this week.

    RFRA backlash

    Friends.

    I can share some very disturbing backlash first hand to RFRA. It happened today in my home (March 30, 2015).

    For the past 10 years I have had the same person help clean my house. He’s always been trustworthy, dependable, and does a good job. Let’s call him John (not his real name).

    Today that all changed.

    Our relationship had always been cordial and I am often at my office when he would come to the house. At home my 76 year old mother is usually there. And their relationship has always been good.

    As a devout Catholic my home has sacred art in it such as crucifixes and pictures of Our Blessed Lord and the Saints.

    Also my Faith has inspired me to be active in many Prolife causes and events over the past 15 years. So when people come to my home they can tell I am a faithful Catholic and prolife.

    John (not his real name) came to our home as usual to help clean the house. He comes every 2 weeks.

    My mother greeted him and was met with cursing, aggressiveness, and fury. John was very angry about the RFRA just signed by Governor Pence. John yelled f-bombs and called my elderly mother a bigot and accused her and all “religious” people of discrimination. She called me after 15 minutes of his tirade and she was reduced to tears and horribly scared by him. I could hear him yelling obscenities in the background at her.

    John would not get on the phone and I told my mom to ask him to leave or I would call 911. He left.

    I raced home to find my mom still shaking. She suffers from heart disease, cancer, and can barely see. She is completely vulnerable.

    You see John is gay. It’s never been an issue before because I simply employed him to do a job. We knew he was gay from the beginning and he readily talked about his recent so called marriage to his partner.

    Our home is a Christian home that welcomes all – especially sinners. I am the greatest of sinners.
    We didn’t see having John in our home to work as an opportunity to proselytize but an opportunity to witness through our personal examples. Of course I wanted John to come to know the unfathomable love of a merciful loving God. But he has never been open to discussing Faith and we never tried to shove it at him. Ever.

    Sadly, John sees religion – most certainly Christianity – as an indictment of his lifestyle and choices. He reacted with so much hate and aggression and anger that must coming from a place of tremendous hurt and pain.

    I had to fire John because of his behavior that frightened my mom so terribly. We will continue to pray for John that his eyes and his heart may be opened.

    Please let Christians know that real oppression is upon us.

    Jesus, I trust in you.

  • mollysdad

    How about a campaign slogan: “Bigoted, homophobic, and proud.”

    • handgunnar

      How original. Copied directly from the pages of the LBGT agitators handbook, no doubt.

    • Steve D.

      Well, you figured someone would show up to prove Zmirak’s point. We are now bigots and homophobes for believing in the word of God. Good job.

  • MadScientist1023

    You know, a more self-aware person might see the irony of this situation. For decades, if not centuries, gays and lesbians have had to live in hiding. Public exposure of one’s sexual orientation frequently resulted in being fired, or worse. The vast majority of the time, this persecution happened at the hands of Christians.
    Anti-gay Christians have been facing a pale reflection of that for about five minutes. Rather than learning something from walking a mile in someone else’s shoes, though, you get guys like this who are taking two steps and screaming bloody murder. Pardon us if you aren’t earning all that much sympathy.

    • handgunnar

      “The vast majority of the time, this persecution happened at the hands of Christians.”
      PROVE IT!

      • cminca

        I have, on two different comments but, surprise surprise, they seem to get removed.

        I’ll give you just one–go to TODAYS “Daily Tar Heel” and you can read about a 20 year old who’s “Christian” pastor, mother, and brother held him against his will and attempted to “beat the gay” out of him.

        • handgunnar

          One example hardly supports your farcical claim that the “vast majority of the time, this persecution happened at the hands of Christians”. I could post a half dozen stories about children molested and murdered by homosexuals (the Jesse Dirkhising torture and murder at the hands of two homosexual hairdressers come to mind)and that would hardly serve as proof that “the vast majority of the time, this perverse criminality happened at the hands of homosexuals.” In fact, your own use of quotation marks to denote your skepticism concerning the authenticity of his faith seems to indicate that you know that there’s a difference between real and fake Christians.

    • newguy40

      This is simply ignorant.
      Christians persecuted by:
      Roman Empire pagans
      Viking/Norse Pagans
      First French Republic.
      Militant Islam in Middle East, Africa, Balkans and other parts of Europe.
      Ottoman Empire
      Communist China
      Communist Russia.

      I could go one but you get the point.

      • MadScientist1023

        OK, if you want to play Oppression Olympics, so be it. Gays have been burned alive, gassed, imprisoned, and beaten to death, and that’s just within the last century.

        I notice that you don’t have a single example from this country on your list. Do I need to go through the list of ways gays have been persecuted in America?

        • newguy40

          Sure. I’d love to hear all the examples. Fire away.

          • MadScientist1023

            All the examples would take a while, so how about I stick to the government-sponsered ones. Up until the 1970s or so, gays were regularly thrown in jail for as little as holding hands. Police regularly ran STING operations in gay bars and would arrest everyone there if they saw two men get even remotely affectionate. The government kept watchlists of anyone who ordered any gay publications, and then would out them to get them fired. In the recent past, gays were explicitly barred from certain careers such as teaching, government, and military service, with the latter example only being repealed a few years ago. Oh, and then, of course there was McCarthyism, where Congress held hearings to hunt out suspected homosexuals so they could be removed from their office or their job, all while pretending it was an effort to fight communism. And none of this was all that long ago.

          • newguy40

            “…explicitly barred from certain careers such as teaching, government, and military service, with the latter example only being repealed a few years ago….” You might want to refer to English persecution of Catholics for the past err…. 4 centuries. And, you might also want to look up how Catholics were treated in NYC by nativist. You know, “No Irish or Catholics Welcome”.

            So, if we were now to insert “Christian” where you have “gay” or “homosexual” in your post, this would now be considered an acceptable action for the future in the US? What’s good for the Goose is Sauce for the Gander? Do I have that correct?

            I do not see any “persecution” by Christians in your comment here. So, how are Christians now your enemy?

          • cminca

            “And, you might also want to look up how Catholics were treated in NYC by nativist. You know, “No Irish or Catholics Welcome”.”

            So that is reprehensible, but a Catholic saying “I won’t serve a Gay” is something that needs to be protected by law.

          • newguy40

            What are you talking about?

          • cminca

            I’m talking about your double standard.

            The fact that you are blind to it goes right back to MadScientist’s first sentence: “You know, a more self-aware person might see the irony of this situation.”

          • MadScientist1023

            Once again, your counter-examples are either non-American or over a century old.
            You’re smart enough to know that well over 90% of all elected officials are Christian, and that Christians have always been the ones most opposed to gay rights and gay people. Are you honestly going to pretend otherwise?
            I was never suggesting that discrimination is acceptable, no matter who it’s against. My point is that anti-gay Christians who don’t like how they’re being treated now might take a moment to reflect on how they’ve put others through worse and take a little responsibility. The Mormon church managed to do that after prop 8 and changed the way it interacted with the gay community without changing its doctrines. The two groups just managed to work together to pass a law to protect against discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation AND religious views on marriage. But first, they admitted their past mistakes.
            Feel free to continue pretending other Christian denominations have done us no wrong in the past.

    • mollysdad

      Nero was a sodomite, as were all but two of the first fourteen Roman Emperors.

  • yolo

    Large scale, widespread, and deep civil disobedience. Do not enlist in the military, refuse to send your children to public schools, refuse to support tax referendums, refuse to participate on juries, and refuse again and again. If enough people do this, the system will either be overwhelmed or underwhelmed. When the day comes where parents are threatened by collectivized child services, if there are enough children the system couldn’t possibly function to touch a single child. If military enlistments fell in half, talk of a draft wouldn’t be talk. If jurors refused to participate, the judicial observers would be dismayed by the outcomes. You can start to imagine how we can effect change. This administration is Rules for Radicals, therefore I suggest that you learn the Rules for Radicals since you are the counter culture now.

  • Grn724

    Is this really about Christianity as a religion or is really about God The Father, Jesus Christ, His only Begotten Son and the Holy Spirit being sent upon true believers? I, for one deeply believe that LGBT coalition and those they represent are directly attacking God’s Word as it is been reveled in Scripture, God loves all of His Creation, including Homosexuals and Lesbians. What God does not love is the sin committed by such, for it is contrary to the nature of God, and the nature of humans, and that nature is for humans to be givers of life, just as we were receivers of life from our biological parents. All who participate, either directly or indirectly in the hatred coming forth from the LGBT coalition are facilitators of sin, which becomes sin itself. We, as believers in God’s Word for all creation must love, but also must stand firm in our convictions. We must not retaliate in kind, we notbe prone to violence, either physical or verbal and most of all we must have faith that God will, in the end, sort this all out. “I am making the whole of creation new . . It will come true . . It is already done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. Rev; 21, 5-6

    • sorleyboy

      God does not love all his creation: Jacob have I loved, Esau have I hated.

  • frank tortilla

    It is well to remember that the Church is on mission…proclaim Him and signs will follow.
    Suffering and Persecution is part of it…Christ is the Head, we are The Body…we WILL go the way of our Lord, Jesus, The Christ- to crucifixion and THEN to Resurrection. The blood of the martyrs are the seeds of the Church. Prepare spiritually now and rejoice whenever we are despised and rejected because it means we are doing something right by Our lord…at last! Remember Jesus’ words, ‘ If they hate Me they will hate you on account of Me!
    DO NOT BE AFRAID OF MORTAL MAN!

  • Spudnik3

    Excellent piece! I was having similar thoughts last night about the influence Christians would have if we stood together. Apathy and self-interest have indeed allowed our enemies to pick us off in small numbers.

    Here’s an idea. Christians across America should conduct a one-day strike. Stay home from work, from school, from any impact we have in our communities. Do it in protest of the systematic demonization of Christians and efforts to marginalize us by government, corporations and media.

  • fredx2

    Today there was a story about a pizza shop in Indiana that said they would not want to participate in a gay marriage by providing catering services. They received so many threats that they were forced to close down their shop, at least for the time being, and they are afraid to show up at work today, for fear of violence.

    It sure seems that this is exactly what Nazis did to the Jews – are we experiencing a sort of Kristalnacht for Christians?

  • jporter313

    Can I ask you guys an honest question?

    Why are you all so concerned about adherence to the bible’s brief mentions of homosexual behavior when the majority of you completely disregard a multitude of other behavioral rules also laid out in the bible?

    • mirele

      Because it’s about having a scapegoat. Back when I was a girl, it was about uppity black people wanting equality. Then when divorce laws liberalized in the 1970s, it was about shameless divorcees. Now, with GLBT openly fighting for the same civil rights as straight people, it’s about Teh Ghey.

      These “Christians” have got to have someone to demonize, all the while forgetting that Jesus had a bad reputation for hanging out with tax collectors, prostitutes and other notorious sinners. (Matthew 11:19) Too bad some “followers” want to keep hom locked away in churches.

      • jporter313

        Thanks for the opinion Mirele, but I was really hoping to hear from someone who actually holds these beliefs how they justify this.

      • squishee

        The only people Jesus “hung out with” were His Apostles and His mother. He spent 90% of his life at home, doing what His mother and father said; not to mention going to church EVERY Sabbath and feast day. Just as His Father commanded.

      • Amnon

        Orthodox Judaism is even more against homosexuality than fundamentalist Christians are. Ditto for traditional Muslims. But you didn’t realize that because you’re so deadset on targeting Christians.

        • cminca

          Very few orthodox Jews or Muslims in power any where in the US.
          Very few orthodox Jews or Muslims compared to Christians anywhere in US.

    • newguy40

      Injunctions against sodomy are present in multiple areas of the old testament. St Paul speaks to it in the new.
      Jesus teachings are very clear on marriage between man and woman. And, marriage for a lifetime.
      God so valued the family that He chose to be born in to one. God could have chosen any method or mode of coming to us. But, He chose the family. Man and Woman. The holy spouses St. Joseph and the Holy Mother.

      Sodomy and homosex are not life creative. They cannot be. God so loved us that he gave us the gift of creation. Sodomy is anti life and anti creation.

      What other behavioral rules are you talking about? Those in Leviticus? Something in the Decalogue (10 commandments)?

      sorry, I know I tend to speak pedantically.

    • mollysdad

      The reason why we are concerned about adherence to the Bible’s condemnation of sodomy is that it is impossible for Christians and homosexualists to coexist indefinitely. Not that Christians will not tolerate the existence of sodomites – we will for as long as it takes.

      The problem is that sodomites will not live and let live. They always end up demanding that everyone render supreme honor and worship to Adam and Steve locked together in their parody of the marital embrace.

      Thus it happens that homophobia has become the new blasphemy.

      • jporter313

        You’re making a big generalization about “sodomites”, which is the term I’m assuming you’re using to refer to gay people. In reality, they’re a pretty huge group, and just like Christians, span a pretty wide range of beliefs and temperaments. The majority of them are perfectly happy to live alongside you guys and just want to be left alone and allowed to live their lives the way they feel is right.

        But this still doesn’t answer the question of why you prioritize this thing that the bible only mentions a few times above all the other things that the bible forbids you to do, but many of you do anyway.

        Why is homosexual behavior such a larger problem for you guys than, let’s say, eating shelfish or pork?

        What makes that something that’s forbidden by Christian law, but you all decide to ignore it, but homosexual relationships are something that you guys have all collectively decided needs to be crusaded against?

        • mollysdad

          The prohibition to eat shellfish and pork was (and is) only for Jews, and it was designed to teach them that only foods lawful to eat are also lawful for sacrifice.

          Pork-eaters don’t run campaigns to persecute Jews. Homosexualists run plenty to persecute Christians. Not that sodomy ought to be a criminal offense. The point is that denying the truth that it is a depraved and evil act ought to be banned and suppressed by suitable sedition laws.

          • jporter313

            Sorry, can you name a single “campaign to persecute Christians” that “homosexualists” have run? I’m honestly not sure what you’re talking about here.

          • Amnon

            Whitebriar Bed and Breakfast, NJ, 2012; Memories Pizza, IN, 2015; Sweet Cakes, OR, 2013; WW Bridal Boutique, PA, 2014; need me to go on?

          • cminca

            So following the law is now called “persecution”?

          • Amnon

            As a Jew, I see one thing: I see Christians, and only Christians, being targeted for their beliefs. Muslim bakeries and Orthodox Jewish bakeries ALSO would refuse to bake a gay wedding cake, yet the gays leave them alone. Its clear to me this is a vicious campaign of hatred for one religion only.

          • cminca

            No one is being targeted.
            Most of the real cases have occurred when a gay couple has been referred, or knows, or has used, the vendor in question.

          • Andrew

            What if those businesses were discriminating against Jews or black people or women, all of which are also violations of the Civil Rights Act. Would demanding that such businesses follow the law also be persecution?

          • Amnon

            They’re not discriminating. None of those businesses said they WOULD NOT SERVE HOMOSEXUALS. They simply expressed support for traditional marriage.

          • Andrew

            Those businesses all provide a basic service like lodging or food, and therefore must provide that service to everyone, no matter what the businesses owners prejudices may be. The owners are still allowed to hold discriminatory opinions, but they must run their business in a non-discriminatory manner.

            It also doesn’t mean that they are somehow immune from criticism either.

          • one comment

            I guess if you forced a Jew to bake a “I don’t believe there was a holocaust” cake, or a black person to bake a “KKK” cake or a women to bake a “rape is ok in 48 states” cake… I suppose they might consider it persecution.

          • Andrew

            Unless the business has a practice of making cakes with derogatory phrases on them, refusing to make one isn’t discriminatory since they refuse to make them for everybody.

            This is different from a business which just makes cakes and then refuses to make cakes for one suspect class of people.

          • one comment

            Ques. 1: define what you mean “derogatory” because your definition may be different from the cake maker; what is fine for you may be derogatory and unconscionable for the baker. My point here is FORCING anyone to do something “derogatory” (your word) / unconscionable (my word) can be considered persecution.
            Ques. 2: define “class of people” because you would have to refuse the WHOLE class of people (and not a subclass because there can be a subclass of a subclass of a subclass until you are down to a few people so then you have to start fiddling with numbers and who says how many people constitute a subclass) all the time every time, and not just the ones who want you to write something “derogatory”.

            Honestly I think you have proved my point here. But I comment here not to argue but to reason peacefully.

          • jporter313

            Ok, so those are some instances of harassment and civil legal issues, admittedly not super positive, but do you have any idea how many gay people have been beaten, dragged, shot, and stabbed to death, not for particularly doing anything but simply for who they are?

            You miniscule list of closed and soon to close businesses isn’t something I’m proud of as a gay advocate, but it pales in comparison to the overwhelming torrent of bodily harm, torture and death that has been coming the other direction for a good portion of recorded history. You want to talk about a campaign of persecution? Yours is laughable.

          • Amnon

            Behavior like what we are currently seeing will only make people hate gays, even if they don’t yet. Gays really need to learn the correct way to make friends and influence people, yanno?

          • cminca

            Please read some history.

            No one in this country has gotten equal rights by sitting around and waiting for the powerful to grant them.

            NO ONE.

          • Idler

            That’s why the Catholic Church does not allow divorce.

          • Wayne

            jporter313 – you are right… “divorce and remarriage is regularly practiced by many of those who denounce homosexuality”… The American Church (or biblical worldview) has lost the debate in the public square over marriage because it turned a blind eye to this (and other sexual sins). Churches abandoned church disciple on “accepted” sins.

            Romans chapter 2 says it much better than I am able to: You who boast in the law dishonor God by breaking the law. For, as it is written, “The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”

            Good ole boy religion loosely connected to Christianity separates homosexual sin as something different than their own sexual sin. (I feel righteous as long as I can point to someone else who is less righteous than me). Real Christianity repents from “self-righteousnees” and remembers that we all are dead in our sins and are righteous only because we have the righteousness of Christ.

            I agree that it is hard to read Leviticus with all the ceremonial laws and answer the question “is this law applied to today?” But hard and impossible are two different things.

          • Andrew

            Why doesn’t the Bible’s condemnation of gay people also only apply to the Jews?

            And do you have any evidence of gay people persecuting Christians?

          • mollysdad

            Because the law against sexual immorality was given to Adam and Noah for the whole human race. Only the Israelites were set apart to worship God, so only they needed dietary laws.

          • jporter313

            Mollysdad, I don’t think anyone has been threatened with jail time for refusing to bake a cake, I’m going to say that’d most certainly be a civil legal issue, not a criminal one.

            By orgy, are you referring to gay weddings? You realize that for the most part, gay people getting married doesn’t involve an orgy, right? And conversely, straight people also participate in orgy’s.

            As a straight married person in my 30s, who knows a good number of gay people, if you actually got to know more of them you’d likely be surprised how unremarkable they actually are, With a few exceptions they’re pretty normal people who just have a different preference for who they are romantically interested in.

          • Andrew

            Can you please point me to the chapter and verse which says that?

            As for the incident’s in England, all that means is that you should be a strong supporter of the First Amendment which is why those types of injustices can’t occur in the US.

            And no one has been thrown in jail for refusing to bake a cake for a wedding or an orgy (although if the business doesn’t provide cakes for any orgies than they can legally refuse as long as they refuse for everyone).

            There have been some fines but that’s nothing new. The Civil Rights Act has banned discrimination for the past fifty years without complaint. But as soon as gay people are added to the list of protected classes, then there’s an uproar.

          • mollysdad

            Chapter and verse? We hold these truths to be self-evident.

            It’s as unjust to put sodomites in their own protected class as it is for murderers and swindlers.

          • Andrew

            You claim that the dietary laws given in the Bible only apply to Jews but the prohibition against homosexuality applies to everyone, and when I ask for the citation from the Bible where that distinction is made you quote the Declaration of Independence.

            Which is not in the Bible.

            So, does the Bible make that distinction? Or is it only you?

          • Max

            “The point is that denying the truth that it is a depraved and evil act ought to be banned and suppressed by suitable sedition laws.”

            If this is “truth”, please tell me what your definition of “truth” is.

        • Amnon

          They want to be left alone? Good. THEN ASK THEM TO LEAVE US ALONE.

        • Gilchrist

          Homosexuals are making this a problem. Men that walk into a women’s bathroom make this a problem. Trying to convince young children that sexual experimenting, fisting and public masturbation is acceptable is a problem. Your limited Biblical education aside, the inhumanity and delusional behavior of not being able to distinguish sexual fantasy that is unhealthy to living in realty is the problem.

          • Andrew

            Who is trying to convince young children that fisting and public masturbation is acceptable? Can you cite any sources for this claim?

          • jporter313

            Yeah, that was a pretty weird one, I’d love to hear where Gilchrist heard that thing about public masturbation, I’m pretty sure I’ve never heard anyone argue for legalization of public masturbation.

          • WorcesterMANative

            @disqus_raMY6Bgvxj:disqus, your militant agenda is showing.

        • lynn

          Shell fish and pork has been cleansed after the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Acts 11:1-10

          • WorcesterMANative

            Lynn, wasn’t that convenient – your revised bible tells you that you can do things that you already wanted to do and not do things that you didn’t want to do. Gee, isn’t that a coincidence. Personally, as someone who’s Jewish, if we’re really going to live a biblical life in America, all pork products should be outlawed and the Sabbath should be returned to Friday Sunday to Saturday sundown. And, maybe you’ll remember that marriage is NOT a Christian invention (neither are your Christmas traditions) – marriage came from the pagans – another tradition stolen by the Christians.

      • Amnon

        The Old Testament tells us that the homosexuals in ancient Sdom wanted to rape angels. Are you really shocked at what they are doing in 2015?

        • WorcesterMANative

          @disqus_NnrZi5jUhi:disqus you might want to go back and restudy that. It was heterosexual men being punished for the lack of hospitality, temple prostitution, and other sins committed by heterosexual men. But, then, they’re the same ones who wrote and then variously translated the bible according to their own militant agendas.

      • Andrew

        Gay people and Christians can’t coexist? How do you know?

        • mollysdad

          Because it’s obvious that sodomites won’t be told that their lifestyle is depraved and evil, and they won’t let Christians tell anyone else that gay is bad.

          It’s the sodomites who are intolerant, not Christians.

          • jporter313

            You guys are constantly telling people that being gay is bad, and no-one is even trying to stop you except in completely legally unacceptable contexts.

          • Andrew

            Why should gay people be told that there “lifestyle” (whatever that means) is depraved and evil when there is no evidence that it is so?

            And who is saying that Christians cant tell them that they’re evil? You’re doing it right now, and no one is stopping you. All that’s changed is that people are standing up to you and telling you that what you’re saying is nonsense and there is no evidence to support your claims.

            It’s also ironic that gay people are somehow the intolerant ones and yet it’s Christians who have a holy book in which gay people get the death penalty.

    • Alphonsus_Jr

      Because sodomy is one of the four sins that cry to heaven for vengeance. Look into it.

      • jporter313

        I’d rather not spend my time doing that, you want to fill me in?

        • Alphonsus_Jr

          Sure. See tinyurl dot com/klm9ucs

      • Andrew R

        Not all gay couples practice sodomy, and some straight couples do. So your comment is a non sequitur.

    • Gilchrist

      And you base your judgement of people in this thread on what? Classic red herring. This has nothing to do with homosexuals being forced to do anything, or adhere to anything. This has to do with not wishing to be a witness to the unnatural sexual appetites and behavior of the LGBTQ community, not wanting children exposed and not wanting laws that punish anyone, Christian, Jew, agnostic, atheist, that do not find this behavior acceptable.

  • Fred Allen

    It seems to me that whenever a business comes out as being pro-Christian and against SSM, they are vilified very publicly. However, the Christians notice this and go out of their way to support the beleagured business. Look at Chick-Fil-A — they are growing dramatically due to explosive business growth in the wake of an organized attempt to demonize the company. Hobby Lobby is expanding. And Memories Pizza in Indiana, whose owners received multiple death threats after they admitted they would not cater for gay weddings, has received $250 thousand dollars in donations in less than one day at a GoFundMe page, after they were forced to close due to the threats.

  • haroldcrews

    It’s never a question of whether there will be discrimination or no discrimination. It is always instead a question of what forms of discrimination will be permitted or even required by the state. After the freedom of association was abolished during the “Civil Rights” movement association became a legal and therefore a political question. Those Christians who supported the “Civil Rights” movement could not foresee the day that homosexuals have more political influence than Christians.

    • Andrew

      Freedom of association has been abolished? Really?

      Do you have any evidence to support this claim?

    • WorcesterMANative

      @haroldcrews:disqus, despite your self-pity, more Americans *claim* to be christian than LGBT persons, many of whom are themselves Christians. When self-righteous Christians such as yourself, ted cruz, sandy rios, and the like start behaving in a christian manner, you’ll earn people’s respect. Until then, don’t hold your breath – you don’t deserve and haven’t earned respect.

  • Idler

    “If the world hates you, be sure that it hated me before it learned to hate you. If you belonged to the world, the world would know you for its own and love you; it is because you do not belong to the world, because I have singled you out from the midst of the world, that the world hates you. Do not forget what I said to you, No servant can be greater than his master. They will persecute you just as they have persecuted me; they will pay the same attention to your words as to mine. And they will treat you thus because you bear my name; they have no knowledge of him who sent me. If I had not come and given them my message, they would not have been in fault; as it is, their fault can find no excuse. To hate me is to hate my Father too. If I had not done what no one else ever did in their midst they would not have been in fault; as it is, they have hated, with open eyes, both me and my Father. And all this, in fulfilment of the saying which is written in their law, They hated me without cause. Well, when the truth-giving Spirit, who proceeds from the Father, has come to befriend you, he whom I will send to you from the Father’s side, he will bear witness of what I was; and you too are to be my witnesses, you who from the first have been in my company.”

  • Charlie_Feather

    This will be the great cleansing that will separate the goats from the sheep, the wheat from the chaff.

    • D_Smith2020

      The great apostasy preceding the appearance of the “man of sin” who will deceive the whole world and persecute “the elect” prophesied in Thessalonians and many other places in the Bible may be presently occurring.

      If so, it will be interesting to watch the apostates, atheists, and those deceived by false religious worldviews finally find their “religion” and take the mark of the beast in identification.

  • jmstalk

    When fear takes hold of politicians and judges, they will roll over to the new fascist agenda of the LGBT crowd which is evident this past week in Indiana. Fascism cares little about the democratic process, but imposes through fear…exactly what has happened in Indiana.

    The response should be that Christians pull their money from stocks or purchase of products of companies getting involved in these social issues. Walmart should not be forcing the hand of the Indiana governor and legislature to rewrite a bill in their state.

    Christians need a website dedicated to rooting out the business and local government entities that threaten political efforts to protect Christians. We have a voice and it is our pocketbook. Someone just needs to rally the team.

    • Truth Unites… and Divides

      I like your idea. Why don’t you spearhead the effort?

  • Alphonsus_Jr

    Pope Francis the Groovy’s silence on this is deafening. Then again, who is he to judge?

    • Max

      …He’s the Pope.

  • Truth Unites… and Divides

    The title of this article is inaccurate. It says “Coming Persecution.” The persecution is already here by the homosexual haters.

    • jporter313

      Yep, I agree, the people that hate homosexuals definitely are persecuting them.

  • Andrew

    Not being allowed to persecute gay people anymore does not mean that you are being persecuted.

  • potemkin_village_usa

    A RIGHT TO A PRIVELEGE: The “Greater Good” Dynamic in The Diminishing of The Inviolable Right Of Religion’s Free Exercise.
    __Ethnic inequality is not the same as moral discrimination. Moral discrimination is practiced as an integral part of religions ‘Articles of Faith’ and have been practiced since the dawn of man. Moral discrimination defines the sacred structures and traditions that perpetuate a religion’s faith through the statutes within their holy writings while preserving their ideals into perpetuity.
    __Freedom to practice ones religious faith is guaranteed under the Bill of Rights. Today, freedom of religion is being pushed into a paradigm of being a stepping stone to a greater good which is in this case, ‘Gay-Rights.’ When religion is subordinated to a “greater-good,” it is subject to marginalization and diminishment for this perceived “greater-good.”
    __Once subordinated to this “greater good” it no longer has pre-eminence as an ultimate right, but a privilege that must give way to what is considered superior to it and must yield. The word “discrimination” can be expanded to encompass every right thus subordinating these rights as sacrificial privileges that can be diminished until they become insignificant and perhaps non-existent; hence, the slippery slope; the ‘Road To Serfdom.’

  • suzazq

    My Methodist parents who have volunteered and supported the church financially for decades have left the church.Why? Because the church is not standing behind its long held belief about homosexuals/marriage, homosexual pastors, etc…There is no where to go anymore for many older Americans who want to go to a house of worship with traditional services that want the Biblical stance in church leadership to be followed. Not the ever changing “red line” that is drawn in the sand about tenets of church. That is causing a huge population of disenfranchised Christians.

    • bdlaacmm

      Tell your parents they’d be welcomed with open arms into any Catholic Church that still preaches traditional values. (Sadly, even amongst the Catholics, there are many who have chosen to side with contemporary political correctness over Eternal Truth.)

      • orientstar

        And they wouldn’t even notice the difference in the service!

    • Christopher Little

      Look around and you’ll find plenty of traditional alternatives, Catholic and Protestant, to the Great Church of What’s Happnin’ Now.

  • suzazq

    we need a date to demonstrate and make it easily accessible to elderly so that they too can participate. multiple cities, multiple sites.

  • Justice

    This article is essentially a call to arms for Christians who do not support other people’s views, in fact it basically condemns them. It in itself tries to vilify those who do not support these select beliefs, ironic if I may say so. Part of its main argument is that the actions that the government takes in providing rights that should already be guaranteed to the people shall be “forcing millions of Americans to choose between church and state”. That very statement alone shows a huge error in the current view of the way this country works. One should not have to choose between one or the other because the two are supposed to be separate. Those involved in government should look beyond their own beliefs they should be able to separate their religion from their decisions of government, as it is supposed to be.

    As far as Indiana goes the bill it has passed is of issue. Even as a resident of said state I can see that. The bill unlike many other religious freedom acts foes not state anywhere that it does not supersede discrimination laws. While a large focus of this missing part of the bill has been used to display how people could discriminate against LGBT groups and individuals, many have overlooked the fact that on a basis as a whole it provides any person of any religion yo deny service to any one ad long as the can justify by their religion.

    I find myself coming back to how this article claims that Christians are being targeted. Firstly I feel it necessary to point that as far as marriage goes, sorry Christianity you don’t have a monopoly on it, it has existed in a multitude of cultures scattered about the world. Marriage is not strictly a Christian thing. As far as this “their coup d’etat” that the author of this article appears to believe all those against them plan on throwing I must say it is an extremely naive thought. A coup would imply that those people who seek their rights intend to seize control from Christians in the nation. Even if this is somewhat true, which it is not, then I say so be it. That would mean that as of the moment Christians exist as the controllers of our country, which for the most part they are and many laws and procedures of governmental actions support this, and I believe that all such things should be removed from government. By this I do not mean terminating people but rather removing any sign of religious reference from the government, for despite the fact that America is a country of religious freedom it displays itself quite often as a Christian nation, something that it should not.

    In conclusion I must state that this article that calls out to stop hateful activity towards Christians, is shaped to do just the opposite to those that apparently, if this article is to be believed, seek the end of Christianity. This article only incites more dissent among people.

  • albert perrotta

    As one of the moderators of The Stream’s comment forum, I
    want to thank everyone who’s engaging in the conversation over John’s
    column in respectful, thoughtful way. When
    approached with heart and reason the debate can be an invigorating thing. When
    approached with love, we all gain.

    When approached in a manner caustic or coarse, nobody wins
    no matter what you might tell yourself.

    It is our goal and intention for The Stream to be a place of
    welcome. Though we make no bones about our worldview, we are also trying hard
    in these early days of The Stream to try and ensure that those who may not hold
    those same views can feel comfortable visiting the site; in fact, can find plenty
    to enjoy.

    We also want to see The Stream’s comment forums quickly get
    a reputation for a high level of discourse. But that’s really going to be up to
    you. You are the builders. All of you. In essence, we’ve donated the land. What’s rises
    here will depend on what you construct. Start pouring now a foundation of
    mutual respect, considerate contemplation, and yes, love for your neighbor, and
    there’s no limit to the beautiful community that can result.

    Now, it’s not my place to actually jump into the debate, but
    watching some of the back and forth, a thought came to me. Perhaps the real division is not between
    those who agree or disagree on same-sex marriage (or whatever the topic). Perhaps
    it’s between those who see the other person as an opportunity to engage and
    those who see him as a target to attack.

    Something to think about on this day commemorating the
    execution of One who inarguably looked on his killers with love.

    Happy Easter and Happy Passover.

    • Gary

      From personal experience, trying to reason with, engage, or be nice to homosexuals, or their defenders, never results in anything good. They view every attempt at civility from their enemies to be a sign of weakness. They are not going to change their beliefs. They only seek to make their opponents change, or make them shut up.

      • lynn

        If you can win just one it would make it all worth while.

      • WorcesterMANative

        How about just letting LGBT people live in people and equality. That is ALL we ask and, yes, demand. Nothing more, nothing less, despite what the propaganda you seem to read and believe tells you. I could care less if you like or respect us. We just won’t accept second class treatment.

  • Miller

    The sheep are being separated from the goats, this is how you do it. You will find that many who you thought were sheep go with the goats, and there even may be a few goats that turn out to be sheep. It will become more and more important to put the Kingdom of God first, come what may especially come what may because it will come. You gots to want to be there when He returns, if God wants you there no thing and no body can prevent it. With Jesus you can do this, but nothing else. Make history my friend, be one of the few out of all who will ever live who was there when Jesus returned. People will be asking you about that for ever.

  • Elleblue Jones

    Unfortunately I don’t believe the persecution is coming, it’s already here.

    • WorcesterMANative

      When’s the last time a Christian was hurt or killed in America by some “gay militant”? your persecution complex is hollow – it’s only because you’re not allowed to control the country anymore. Oh, boo hoo.

      • Max

        That’s the pathetic truth about these people.

    • D_Smith2020

      Indeed, incidents like the 2012 left-wing gunman who entered the Family Research Council offices in Washington, D.C. shooting a security guard and looking for Christians to execute is becoming more commonplace. Fortunately, security acted swiftly and were able to wrestle that gunman to the ground until police arrived.

      • Max

        More commonplace? Examples, now.

  • Christopher Little

    Well, the left does indeed fantasize about governmental compulsion —
    including the use of state violence — to effect its will. But here in
    the States, polls show roughly 25% of the American people believe in the
    right of Americans to counter state violence with violence, and the
    vast majority of these folks are armed to the teeth. Think Bundy Ranch
    on Steroids if leftist fantasy ever becomes reality.

    • WorcesterMANative

      sorry buddy, @Christopher Little, but it’s the wacky Reich wing politicians and money-grabbing preachers who are claiming that civil war is coming!

    • Max

      “the left does indeed fantasize about governmental compulsion — including the use of state violence — to effect its will.”

      And where did you get that from? Gobbling up right-wing propaganda?

  • Christopher Little

    This from an Englishman (Williams), in whose country the effacement of religious liberty proceeds apace with greater fervor than it does here in the States. True, England and North America aren’t Syria, Iraq or Nigeria, but to imply that persecution doesn’t exist here is to hide one’s head in the sand. Then again, Williams was always good at that. And I speak as an Anglican as well.

    • markpkessinger

      Anglican is not necessarily English. I happen to be American, and an Episcopalian, which is part of the worldwide Anglican Communion..

  • Gary

    Right now, it is Christian business owners and employees who are the targets. If the government passes hate crimes laws that include speech almost every Christian will be affected including colleges, radio stations, and churches. The sodomites are ruthless and vicious. And when I say “sodomites” I include those heterosexuals who champion homosexuals. Obama is one. So is Hillary Clinton, almost all Democrats, many Republicans, almost every liberal “Christian”, atheist, agnostic, and evolutionist.

  • Gary

    You think people should behave like animals?

    • jporter313

      Are you being intentionally obtuse?

      Pointing out the animals engage in homosexual behavior is a rebuttal to the idiotic claim that homosexuality is “unnatural”. Humans behave like animals in a lot of notable ways. In it’s literal sense “behaving like an animal” is not necessarily a bad thing. It’s only negative in the simplified context you presented it in, which doesn’t match up with my observation in any way.

    • Andrew R

      That’s not what JPorter313 said at all. Read his comment again.

  • LINCOLNLOVER

    44 minutes and holding on my previous comment. Why?

  • newguy40

    Genesis 1:27-28 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

    Malachi 2:14,15 But you say, “Why does he not?” Because the LORD was witness between you and the wife of your youth, to whom you have been faithless, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant.

    mt 19:3-6 And Pharisees came up to him and rtested him by asking, s“Is it lawful to divorce one’s wife for any cause?” He answered, t“Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, u‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and vthe two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. wWhat therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”

    Literally, from the begining in Genesis, God defines marriage as between man and woman.

    I have less time this day for discussion. I have the Easter Vigil to prepare for now. Christ is truly risen.

  • markpkessinger

    The premise of this article is outrageous and offensive. The absurd hysteria over ‘gay totalitarianism’ is redolent of the very same kind of bigotry embodied in the anti-Semitic “Protocols of the Elders of Zion,” and of the racism of white folks in the Deep South who believed that black men, as a class, were all intent on raping white women. It is disgusting; it is vile. And it is the very antithesis of anything that can remotely be called ‘Christian.’

  • Mike W

    The Baronelle Stutzman case proves the extent to which these people are prepared to go. Destroying someone’s livelihood and taking their life’s assets is not even the rough justice of an eye for an eye – it is tens of thousands of eyes for an eye. The hatred is very clearly all on their side.

    • larry

      I agree! Gays want no win win situation…just to become dominant and ruin anyone who opposes them.

      • Mr Twink

        I don’t really think so, I’ve seen no evidence of it anyway. I don’t think we know who all the gays are, simply because they blend in so well.

        • larry

          Blend in? Maybe 30 years ago. Not now except for those gays who choose not to wear neon.

  • WorcesterMANative

    Because only phony-christian totalitarianism is acceptable these days. What a load of twisted bullshit!

  • Mark_Trail

    If homosexuals can change their disorientation, then this whole non-issue is exposed as a fraud to con the American citizen out of his or her First Amendment rights and force us into Involuntary Servitude.

    Slave-holders used the color of the skin to dominate the black man and woman. This was a con and a scandal, which we recognized as such and skin color was becoming what it really is: neutral, but innate. Skin color can’t be changed, sexual disorientation can.

    People get conned out of their possessions all the time. This con is directed at making Americans do Involuntary Servitude. Things have come full circle.

    Revenge and power-grabbing are the the only possible motives behind telling the Big Lie About Sexual Disorientation.

    • Palefac 43

      Homosexuality is an inherent condition whether one is born with it or it happens as a result of environment. Either way, NO ONE has ever chosen to be a homosexual. They are naturally attracted to their same sex just as we are attracted to the opposite sex. Both sexually and emotionally.

  • D_Smith2020

    Great article. All true. The immoral will leverage government to persecute the righteous as they’ve done throughout history and ultimately face God’s judgment for doing so. In the meantime, the immoral will hurt a lot of good people.

    • Max

      Boo hoo, you’re so persecuted by all those mean gays, right?

      Please tell me how your life has been drastically affected, how you’ve felt the persecution of the gay agenda all around you.

      I eagerly await a histrionic response.

      • Straight Shooter

        You are an assho/e.

      • D_Smith2020

        Thank you for revealing the extent of your colossal ignorance. My ten year old daughter can answer the question that you, an adult, obviously have idea how to. She’s also more mature than you are.

        • Max

          So… you didn’t answer my question. Figures.

          How has your poor daughter been affected by those mean old gays too?

          • D_Smith2020

            You’re so immature, engage in so much ad hominem, and make so many false assertions that taking you seriously would just feeding another troll which, of course, is undesirable. It’s for all these reasons that I’m going to ignore you rather than play your stupid troll games.

          • Max

            You have no answer to my question.

            “The immoral will leverage government to persecute the righteous as they’ve done throughout history and ultimately face God’s judgment for doing so. In the meantime, the immoral will hurt a lot of good people.”

            You’ve done nothing to back this statement up – all I was asking was an explanation. Your failure to provide one proves it’s all baloney.

    • Mr Twink

      It is not a great article, it is sensationalist rubbish. To suggest, as the author has here , that 10% of the population is going to run havoc with the rest is stupid. If said ten percent can achieve dominance of the ninety then the ninety were unworthy from the start.

  • Cali Ron

    Gay totalitarianism, really? This article and anyone who even remotely agrees with it is delusional. For believers in an omniscient god you sure are scared of a small minority of the population who are gay. Completely contrary to the teachings of Christ who welcomed all, regardless of sexual preference. I pity you who have been deluded into believing that your god condones hatred and intolerance towards any human.

    • FlPatriot98

      Christ loves and welcomes all. But he also hates sin and reminds us not to be conformed to this world.

      Romans 12:2. We as Christians are to be the salt of the earth. Upholding and keeping Gods commandments. Sexual impurity and wickedness will bring the judgment of God upon the people of disobedience. Ephesians 2:3

      • Palefac 43

        There is no such thing as sin. Sin is a made up concept. There is good and there is bad and sometimes it is hard to tell which is which and there can be some disagreement.

    • Mark Brooks

      You don’t know God. But you can. The judgment of God’s wrath upon all evil has been revealed from Heaven, and human beings like yourself, who call good evil and evil good, have darkened hearts without understanding because you have denied Him, even though the evidence of His existence is all around us. “For this reason God gave them up to vile lusts; for both their females changed the natural use into that contrary to nature, were inflamed in their lust towards one another; males with males working shame, and receiving in themselves the recompense of their error that was fit.”

      Murder. Drug addiction. Abuse. This is the real legacy of sexual perversion. But that doesn’t have to be your life or your destiny. “Do ye not know that that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not err; neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor those who make women of themselves, nor who abuse themselves with men, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor abusive persons, nor the rapacious, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And these things were some of you; but ye have been washed, but ye have been sanctified, but ye have been justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.”

      God so loved his creation that he has provided a way of life, a way out of the coming wrath and eternal separation from Him. Believe God. It’s all there in His Word. Believe Him. Stop believing in a world that lies to you, that tells you that evil is good. Will they raise you up in the last day? Of course not. And they won’t stand between you and eternal flame. So believe in the name of Jesus. If you want to know the truth, read the Bible as a believer, pray for knowledge, and in time, you will have the answers you need.

      • Palefac 43

        I believe in God. I agree that the evidence of His existence is all around us. But you won’t learn anything about God by reading the legends, myths and superstitions in the Bible. The most dangerous people in the world are those who think they know who God is, what He thinks and what He wants. That includes Christians as well as Muslims.

        • m flight

          Then you will be open minded enough to see that God created male and female and that homosexuality is not natural. You might also consider all children have a mother and father and have a fundamental right to a mother and father. Furthermore, loads of scientific studies prove out the optimal situation for children is a mother and father. Finally, to any keen observer, the breakdown of the American family over the past 50 years has come at a significant cost to all citizens but especially those children who were unwilling and un-witting participants. So now when you go and redefine marriage so more how much more damage gets done to the innocents? Human flourishing starts with the family. The best and highest form of family has been 1 man and 1 women with the capacity to have children. Believe in the Trinity and Jesus Christ as your savior, believe in a Jeffersonian version of God, believe in God as fire insurance, think yourself a god or be an atheist.

          The empirical research, common sense and thousands of years experience all point to man + woman = good; all other combinations = not good to outright bad.

          • Max

            The “children” argument is complete garbage. Oppose gay adoption is you’re so against kids not having a mother and father. Gay marriage is a different matter.

          • Mr Twink

            You are right to point to the advantages of family life, but not in the exclusive male / female sense although I accept that this works well in a good 50% of cases. The most important ingredient for any child is a secure and loving home. We do not yet have enough evidence to establish whether the Gays would make good nurturers or not. But we do have plenty of evidence to point to the unsuitabilty of many ‘natural parents’ to be in fact just that, ‘parents’. To procreate a child is the easiest thing in the world, drunken men and women do it in back alleys every night, but that does not make them good parents, anymore than it makes an alley cat a pleasant animal.Take just one well known example, Daniel Pelka,living in England, born of Polish parents. His father beat him about the head constantly, his mother fed him salt and they both locked him in a cold room on a cold night whilst they proceeded to do the ‘natural thing’ in a warm bed elsewhere. Daniel died. There were no homosexuals to take the blame, this was the result of a 100% heterosexual union. And before you comfort yourself with the notion that this must have been an isolated occurrence , I have a file full of abusive , unloving and in some cases religious heterosexual parents. I for one think it is time we gave gay people the chance to adopt or in some cases surrogate children,I think we may find they are very good parents, but with supervision we will in fact be able to deal in facts and not opinions.

      • Mr Twink

        You are very good, you really are. You really do belong in the Bible belt. ”Murder. Drug addiction. Abuse.This is the real legacy of sexual perversion.” All good tub thumping stuff. Can you furnish references to support these assumptions. God might be a very nice concept but no one has yet found incontrovertible proof that he exists. They’ve found the writings of man but nothing that can be declared God’s word.In you we see why religion is loosing ground more quickly than Donald Trumps hairline. You are delivering what you have read without analysis , straight from the book in the same manner that the converts to Isis believe in their own glorious leaders. You can see why ordinary people keep clear.

    • David Baines

      It is all very well to continually espouse the love of God and how Jesus “welcomed all” (He did not), but those who are either GBLTQIs or who are sympathetic to them, rarely speak about the judgement of God. Remember Sodom and Gomorrah? The most grievous sin that those two cities were condemned for was homosexuality. Jesus said in Matt. 10:15, 11:23, 11:24; and in Luke 10:12, 17:29 that the COMING judgment would be more bearable for those two cities than for Chorazin and Bethsaida, because if the miracles that had been done in Capernaum had been done in Sodom and Gomorrah they would have repented of the sins that they were known for and would have remained even to the days of Jesus’ time on earth. So yes Jesus did condemn homosexuality.

      • Palefac 43

        If you believe in those legends, myths and superstitions of the Bible, Quran or other holy book you are not amenable to facts or reason. The most dangerous people in the world are those who think they know who God is, what He thinks and what He wants.

      • Max

        Myths, dude. Come join us in reality.

      • Mr Twink

        Actually , although it is far to big a subject to debate here, the destruction of the cities of the plain was not rooted in sexuality. If it ever happened of course. Like that old chestnut ‘Noah’s Ark’ it’s very much a question of which came first, the chicken or the egg. Was the story created after the event, not concurrently. I have to say I think so

  • FlPatriot98

    Islam is much more intolerant of homosexuality than Christianity. Why don’t they go and persecute Islam and Muslims for their intolerance? Oh because they fight back and kill people in the name of their so called religion of peace!!

    • sc_cannon

      The Homosexual, baby murderers, and all sort of other Deviants may be the real terrorist in this country. I think it all started to go wrong when people bought into the idea that crazy evil killers should not get the death penalty. After that the door was open for a lot of weak minded things.

      • Mr Twink

        I think you need to get a grip my friend. The homosexuals are 10% of the population, but to you they are as 90%, that’s called paranoia.

    • Palefac 43

      Just because someone else is less tolerant than you does not justify your intolerance, i.e. bigotry.

      • FlPatriot98

        How am I being intolerant? By holding biblical views? This is somewhat of a free country still so I am entitled to hold my own views just as you are to hold your views. I am not trying to legislate the homosexual lifestyle to be illegal. But the homosexual community is trying to demonize anyone that holds a viewpoint contrary to their own. That my friend is true bigotry!!!

    • Mr Twink

      Islam may say they are intolerant but they still do it. Man is as nothing if his hypocrisy is stripped away.

    • larry

      Good question! If gays bullied Muslims they would be set on fire along with their houses. Good incentive to leave Muslims alone.

  • Palefac 43

    Gay totalitarianism is sanctioned and enforced under the unconstitutional Civil Rights Act of 1964 which prohibits private individuals from discriminating thus violating the natural human right to choose. It also subjects the right to own and use property to government oversight and approval. The same Act gives us totalitarianism such as Affirmative Action and court decisions citing “disparate impact”.

    • The U.S. Civil Rights Act of 1964 has been challenged in court on a number of occasions, so far unsuccessfully.

      • Palefac 43

        Unfortunately the concept of “creator endowed unalienable rights” has not been “politically correct” since 1964. Hopefully, we can somehow get it back.

        • Mr Twink

          I think you probably need to prove the indisputable existence of the creator first and having done that , his or her endorsement of your point of view. Some quite big hurdles there..

          • Palefac 43

            I read some of your other posts and I agree with you. It is nonsensical the way people quote the bible as though it is an authority. The bible, the quran; just books of legends, myths and superstitions. I happen to believe there is a higher power, a Creator. But if one doesn’t, it seems inevitable that one would recognize the existence of natural basic (“unalienable”) human rights. Many of those rights no longer exist in America because anti-discrimination laws are discriminatory.

  • Mr Twink

    This is an hysterical overreaction. The gays are certainly feeling their feet a little more and I think that’s understandable following centuries of persecution but to suggest they are going to lead riots and mass be-headings is ludicrous.Let us assume for one moment that this appears to be shaping up just how big an army do you expect them raise in any given area. Exclusively homosexual males number about 10% of the population are you seriously suggesting that 10% will terrorize and dictate the pace. How are they going to pick the Christians out, or will they perhaps take over the army and the police and hold the whole country to ransom. If so, then the other 90% deserve all they get . This sort of reporting makes good copy but it is sensationalist, it wont ever happen, not from the Gays anyway.

    • Movie Blue Diving Suit

      Apparently 28% in San Francisco school district. Funny how genetic predisposition suddenly jumps statistically in an area that promotes homosexuality even though homosexuals can’t procreate.

      • Mr Twink

        I think homosexuals certainly can procreate, that they don’t choose to is another matter. Who can tell what the future may bring, sperm and egg banks are almost certain but I should also conjecture there is much on the horizon to shock and outrage those who choose to let 10% of the population get under their skin.

    • larry

      So you say. Root around on the Internet for a half second and you will see instances of gay lawsuits or attacks on those who oppose them. An informed person knows that this is just the beginning.

      • Mr Twink

        Yes there are such examples, and I don’t doubt that there are gays who enjoy rubbing the public face in the dirt, I don’t approve of that anymore than I approve of hysterical Christian proselytizing.There are many gays who don’t want to make waves and there are many Christians who are happy to accept gays but there always has to be a few on both sides who cannot live without conflict.Polarizations, whether they be in the name of religion or some sexual cult can be a profound nusiance to the majority of people who wish to be left in peace. The majority of the population is not gay neither is it religious and yet from the one we risk overt in your face demonstrations and from the other outrageous proclamations on behalf of a god they believe they know better than anybody else. You are both as bad as each other,

  • Max

    More rubbish from the wannabe-victim brigade. Absolutely pathetic.

  • Max

    But he still loves us all! (sniggers)

    • Straight Shooter

      You silly old queen, no one cares what you think.

      • Max

        Clever guy, this one

  • Max

    If you wanted to stop the hate, you’d shut your mouth.

  • Max

    Wow, bringing up Nazis… who’d have guessed? Enough with the histrionics. Get with reality.

    • LINCOLNLOVER

      This is reality….that there is nothing new under the sun. The regimes may not be called Nazis but they are sure using the same tactics even with similar results. Have you read the Eric Metaxas book “Dietrich Bonhoeffer”. This is one thing which would help you see the similarities and how glaring they are. Or don’t bother if you think it’s so crazy.

      • Max

        What’s reality? The need for god? Whose existence has never been confirmed…? Doesn’t sound much like reality to me.

        • LINCOLNLOVER

          Just goes to show you what you don’t know. There was a time that I didn’t know God but now I do. Our need for God is a life or death decision. He created us, He knows what we need and we need Him to save us from a fallen condition. All the answers are clearly made in the bible for anyone who really wants to know, It’s all there and put extremely directly and clearly. If you seek for God , He will show you and confirm His existence through reason and His word, the bible. He loves us all and wants us all to come to Him and He will give us eternal life…just as we were to have before the fall of man when Satan got into it. Hope you have enough humility to look.

          • Max

            It’s not a case of humility. It’s a case of not swallowing down what’s quite clearly, in my own personal view, an absolute mess of nonsense.

            “Our need for God is a life or death decision.” Then why am I still here?

          • LINCOLNLOVER

            You cannot know if you do not look. You are already prejudiced before even investigating for real.

          • Max

            You’re making an assumption you cannot back up there. I’ve seen more than enough of the bible to make an informed decision.

          • Evan Hurst

            You’re a liar, homosexuals don’t read the Bible.

          • Max

            Where did you acquire such expertise in homosexual matters? Is there something you’re trying to hide, Evan?

          • LINCOLNLOVER

            Okay. You simply don’t agree with the bible. I do.

          • Max

            Well then don’t presume that you understand reality.

  • Mark_Trail

    God-deniers say “There’s no such thing as sin,” and then point to instances in the Bible (which they say is made up of ‘fairy tales”), where God (whom they say does not exist) orders the destruction of sinners, etc. They order the destruction of Bible-believers for believing in “fairy tales.” Democrat leaders agree with the God-deniers, and do their best to crush religious people’s Constitutional rights, with the long-term goal of eliminating religion and religious in the land (for Marxism, Socialism, and Communism to succeed, atheism must first become the majority belief and practice; atheists Marxists, Socialist and Communists slaughter multiple millions of Christians in the 20th Century).

    No one alive in America today can find an instance where any Christian church has ever condoned the murder of homosexuals or God-deniers. Marxists, Socialists and Communists in the US government are using “gay-tolerance” laws to discriminate against and persecute Christians.

    • sc_cannon

      I generally agree except I don’t believe that there are atheists, I do believe in pretentious people that are living in denial of their true beliefs

      • Mr Twink

        That’s an interesting statement. What you are saying is ” I’m right and the others know I’m right but they choose to ‘live in denial’ as you yourself put it.. You could use that argument anywhere, you could use it in political discussions, you could say, ”The Republicans know we are right they are just living in denial” or indeed the Atheists could say, ‘The Christians know we are right really, they are just living in denial’. It’s unanswerable, but it’s nonsense of course.If I were to say to you, ‘There is no proof of a God, you are living in denial, ‘ I think I could predict with 99% accuracy what your reaction would be because you believe in your heart that there must be a creator somewhere, and I would be inclined to agree with you.Someone on the opposite side of the argument telling you that you are in denial makes no difference to your fundamental belief, and so it is the same for the Atheist, you have to accept that in all probability this is what they believe and stop challenging them with an un provable concept.

        • sc_cannon

          In the first place my thoughts on these things are just my instinctive intuitions and if you think I should not say them as it is unproveable you should have apply the same argument about anyone claiming they are an atheist. Beyond that maybe there is proof, I feel I have esoteric proofs of at least a greater reality than the one I am living which I call the God dimension, maybe every one gets the proof they need or why am I special. It might amount to a kind of uncertainty principle but for spiritual things. I don’t go into my esoteric experiences much and definitely not with someone that identifies himself as Mr. Twink.

          • Mr Twink

            Fancy having an objection to a name on an internet forum. Your’s is no less ambiguous sc_cannon.
            I would be very interested to hear of your esoteric experiences, I have a broad outlook I think.

    • Mr Twink

      So far as the Bible, or any other religious book is concerned you need to understand that there is no incontestable evidence that God or Allah has ever spoken. The Bible was written by man, and man also writes for the the ‘New York Times’, ‘The Chicago Tribune’, ‘The Daily Mail’ and countless other media, but do you beieve everything you read in these publications. If you do then you have me seriously worried.Religious peoples rights are not being crushed, true they are having to moderate to some degree, they can no longer recommend the scourging of sinners and it could be argued their hay day is probably past , but they are still free to practice there religion and you know this perfectly well.

      • chercher

        There are men who write for the New York Times etc. but they are not the same calibre of men who wrote the Bible. Just like the men who would write science books are not the same as those who write a love novel. These were men of high regard who wrote accounts of what they witnessed or wrote of future things to happen by the inspiration of God who gave them these words to write. A good example is that Jesus in predicting the time of his second coming clearly told his followers that those times will be like in the days of Sodom and Gomorrah like we are witnessing before our eyes. Men of integrity inspired by the Holy Spirit wrote an account of these things. The prophet Isaiah prophesied that in this time men will call “good” evil and “evil” good and that’s what we are seeing now in our time.

        • Mr Twink

          I think if there was ever a time when the second coming seemed likely , that time had to be the second world war, particularly from a European standpoint. No one knows if or when there will be a second coming, and your own book says as much.

  • larry

    Well. You are right! Kristallnacht happened in Portland Oregon when gays bashed out stained glass windows at Mars Hill Church. Will be more of that.

  • NJH

    Firstly, I’m gay. Secondly, I’m an atheist. Do you hate me already? Thirdly, I’m English, living in England. I find it astonishing that in all the years of happily living with Christian people, I have never heard such venom directed towards a minority. I’m also surprised that you’re more worried about gay people than about the millions of people who are starving to death on this planet. I can’t change being gay, and believe me, if I could have done when I was being beaten to a pulp at school, I would have. But you could change people dying from lack of food if you put the same amount of effort in as you did trying to stop same-sex marriage, which is really not hurting anybody. I feel no animosity towards right minded Christians, or any other religion. I do, however, have a problem with people hating me for absolutely no realistic reason.

    • Movie Blue Diving Suit

      The term #LoveWins assumes and accuses those who disagree of the opposite: #HateLoses. You assume hate on our part. You would be very wrong. We don’t hate you. It’s not about us. It’s not about what I think or what you think, otherwise truth is relevant and there is no such thing as the concept of right or wrong. This is about God and what He thinks. It’s about God’s divine standard of right and wrong and His definition of marriage as a covenant between a man and a woman, representing the relationship between Christ and his bride, the Church. You CAN change, but only God can do it for you. God gives people over to the sin you are struggling with. You CAN overcome it, with God’s help. He is the one you have offended, but you must confess this sin as the sin it is, fornication, and man laying with man. If you don’t believe in God, and instead believe in evolution, then scientifically speaking, your kind are a threat to the existence of the human race, unless of course you expect to grow a womb in your rear end some day a million years from now. By the process of natural selection, if your actions were indeed genetically-based, homosexuals would have died off long ago since they can’t procreate and carry on the gene. But you know that, inside you know that. Your conscience accuses you of what you know to be wrong and unnatural, but you love your sin more than God. You love pleasure more than holiness. Repent before it’s too late. Confess your sin to God, repent and turn from it. He alone, by the blood of Christ, can save you.

      • Mr Twink

        I feel I do have to reiterate what I have said so often on these pages, there is no proof that God has ever spoken, the bible is not proof nor is the Koran or any other religious book because we have no proof, not that would stand up in court. You and others are using this as an excuse to hide your own preconceived opinions. That’s fair enough but at least have the courage to say so.

        • creatingbliss

          You are obviously not saved.

          • Mr Twink

            Have you ever considered that you are labouring under a serious psychological disorder . Believing in Gods and deities can be a sign of schizophrenia. Don’t get me wrong I have no interest in your mental health but equally I have no intention of considering a God that originates in the depths of the human psych. Equally I will resist you imposing your will upon the free world.

          • larry

            Baloney. Every culture from primitive to more advanced strives toward spirituality. None worship genital and excremental organs except for homosexuals.

          • Mr Twink

            I think the operative word here is primitive. In early cultures they believed that blood letting would cure a fever, that the sun went round the earth ( which was flat of course ) and a host of different deities represented everything from rocks and trees to animal life forms.Gradually of course, these ancient beliefs have been forced to surrender to both common sense and modern science.Strangely enough I am not arguing against the notion of a supreme being, but I am dead set against the idea that any particular religion has some form of celestial ‘Main Agency’ operating on the principle of ”If you don’t bring the goods back to us on a regular basis then the guarantee’s invalid and all sorts of terrible things will happen. ‘ Whist I don’t intend to discuss excrement I can tell you that there were several primitive African tribes that went in for phallus worship and that there is recorded evidence of ancient Egyptian stone carvings that look remarkably like the real thing. But all this aside, there is no possibility of any homosexual uprising and no threat of world domination, that is paranoia. As I’ve said before, if 10% can dominate ninety then the ninety jolly well deserve to be dominated. Far more important to family life and society in general is the divorce rate in the western world, which is running at a yearly 40% app. For some reason the Christian boffins don’t seem interested in that, I wonder why?

        • chercher

          You’ve never questioned the existence of the Pharaohs, Caesar, but you question the existence of Jesus who was alive during the time of Caesar

          Didn’t our fathers tell us about God. and didn’t they heard about it from their fathers and so on. Why would someone or a group of man just decided to write this book with all these rules which man should obey, a set of doctrine which when followed leads to a full and happy life. Moreover it promises of restoration and triumph over death …what do you find wrong with this message. Isn’t it great that there is a God who is all powerful and awesome that he can make the world whole again …no more death, no more sorrows, and who asks very little of us because He sacrifice His only begotten son for our redemption?

          • Mr Twink

            I respect your opinion. And I accept that Jesus is a very good role model, however, I think the point I am making is, that Jesus has political clout, the Pharaohs and Caesar for that matter, do not. There are very good reasons why Jesus may be kept alive beyond his sell by date. A great deal of the conversation in Christian circles concerns Homosexuals, a mere10% of the population, yet they are obsessed with them. In America this is particulary so and Jesus is used to endorse various points of view, but from my standpoint you might just as well quote the pharaohs. I do believe in a God as it happens, but after a lifetime of thought and introspection, I no longer believe the infallibility of the Bible, that’s had far too many male fingers fiddling around in the text. I believe that a great deal of what we were told to accept as children is a form of social control, based upon the Bible, and that’s fair enough, if by consensus that is how you wish to run your society, but I doubt it’s the truth and in a democracy others have a right to an opinion. I think we are all essentially energy, and we learn from our time on earth. But I would not seek to question the nature of God, it is unfathomable, and I certainly will not base my opinions upon what is written in a book penned by man. Those days are gone I’m afraid.

        • janus999

          Regurgitating that old propaganda doesn’t change anything about any person’s belief. People who believe in God have their own epiphany. Its not about proving it to others. Either you have an open ear or you do not. God opens eyes – and shuts them. If you do not see how there must be a God (by the way many scientists have concluded there must be a “God”, even ones that don’t necessary believe in one say the same but call it an “Intelligence” that has designed everything – the “random events” notion is a MYTH now in the scientific community). But in any case you just prove an earlier commentors point about not believing in God because believing in God (or even in the basic laws of nature) causes you discomfort (shame) and rubs against your vanity. But as the article makes clear – it doesn’t matter what you believe, its about you respecting people who choose to believe otherwise. If it weren’t for those people voting for FAIRNESS, you wouldn’t have gay rights. Remember – the gay population is about .6% – so you all didn’t get those rights by yourself – so respect ours.

          • Mr Twink

            You are assuming that I am gay , and you are not only wrong you are slandering me so be careful., In your ignorence you don’t know how wrong you really are. You also assume that I am an atheist and again , you are wrong. You talk of God opening eyes and ears, I suppose it would never occur to you that your eyes might need opening. You believe what you want to believe , I agree with you there, but I will not have you or even God almighty picking on one group of humanity even if I give my life in their defence. I am prepared to defend all comers even God if necessery, and he / she / it , knows that perfectly well. I will not have persecution whether it be from you or God almighty. If you as a Christian, whatever that really means today, cannot show respect then I will help you.It means you show love, AS CHRIST TAUGHT, and compassion. Of all the commandments, the greatest is this, that you love one another. Try doing just that, and don’t try to be so clever, it doesn’t suit you.

      • larry

        “A womb in your rear end…” LMAO! Gay men have many “Miscarriages”.

    • chercher

      It would follow that if you are gay, you would more than likely be an atheist because if there is no God, then there is no sin.

      I once read a post from a homosexual man and he explains it as this. Homosexuals hate women and when they get together they vilify women. Also, according to him, they shame of their acts bothers them so they want others to agree and accept them so that they can feel better about themselves. I want to believe his assessment because it makes sense for homosexuals to want Christians to ignore parts of the Bible to accommodate them and make them feel good about themselves. It seems to me that God, the Creator of all things, has put a curse on all homosexuals because you all just have this look in your eyes …a look of a dead soul.

      My only message to you is to repent of your sins and be forgiven. By the way, there is no other group that do more for humanity by providing food, shelter and medical care outside of the government than Christians and Christian Organizations….and they do it on a regular basis because that’s part of the requirement of the Gospel.

      • Mr Twink

        What the gays are, or are not, is their affair, but I think it pays to remember that religion, at least the more well known religions such as Christianity and Islam, frequently fight, frequently go to war, and not infrequently persecute others not of their following.Religion has been with us for four thousand years, give or take a century of two, and in that time it has perpetrated many indefensible acts. For the record I should like to declare my opinion. I do not think the God of the Bible is a true refection of a loving God. I think he / she is a contrived social control

        • janus999

          Your an atheist so why tell people what you think about something you do not believe in? And whether there was violence or not – unless you think God is stupid – and I don’t know too many people who believe in a stupid God, then there was a reason for it, and just because YOU cant figure out that reason, with the intellect the size of a microorganisms waste pellet (all of us, not a insult to you) compared to GOD, does not mean we get to interpret whether God was just. We have no idea and cannot see the whole picture like God can. Now, instead of arguing with mankind, the things you have against God is something you should take up with God himself.

          • Mr Twink

            No , not at all. Man has been on this earth a mere six million years, set that against the fact that the dinosaurs died out sixty million years and Christianity set up shop a mere two thousand years back and I think you may get a better sense of perspective. Nowhere in this post have I said I am an atheist, , but I certainly do not conceive God to be a vengeful spiteful creature in the Christian mould and I have every right to challenge that conception. Admittedly I would have been executed by the representatives of this religion a mere thousand years ago , as indeed the representatives of certain Islamic sects are currently executing their opponents , but we am living in times when all the old beliefs are being questioned, and rightly so when one looks at the atrocities you hope to perpetrate upon the non believer .

            Because you are a Christian, or at least you appear to behave like one, it does not follow that you have Gods authority or that you have authority to judge others.

    • Welcome2Tomorrow!

      “Firstly, I’m gay. Secondly, I’m an atheist. Do you hate me already?” You remind me of a conversation I had many years ago with (now) a friend of mine who’s also a gay. She came to me exactly with this line? And I told her, BECAUSE I am a Christian, I don’t hate you, and I will not have you pin on me this prejudice. HOWEVER, I do not agree with this lifestyle. Having said that, I will NEVER cause you any harm, or stand by and watch if anyone would try to harm you because of your lifestyle.
      The ONLY problem I have with this community, is that it no longer wants to live and let live, but DEMANDS that it is accepted. If I peacefully disagree, I’m viewed as homophobic, and that is not okay. They don;t want the cake, they want a Christians bakery to bake it. Not want to get married, but look for that Christian public servant to put the stamp on their paper, that Christian-owed venue to host their celebration, etc. It’s becoming a pattern. You don;t hear in the news of Muslim, or Hindu, of Sikhs business being pressed into offering the mentioned service.
      My fear is that whoever is behind this…fad basically, with their money and personal agenda, will at some point move on, when whatever gain they’re after, is achieved. Then this community will be left alone to face a crowd they more than upset with their lack of tolerance. Look around, today, and in history. Nobody pities a tyrant, or an movements that turns oppressive, and stumps on other people’s rights. So, yes, I am a Christian, no I am not homophobic!

  • Mr Twink

    Consummate rubbish, not even worth debating.

  • Mr Twink

    If you had been alive in 1930’s England during the blitz you most certainly would think it was the end times. But as Jesus said ” you will hear of wars and talk of wars, but pay ye no heed to them ” No one knows except your father who is in heaven, when the end times will come.”

  • howard bell

    Homosexuals weren’t born gay but they were born without the capacity to believe in God, even if they wanted to, and they were also born without the capacity to be truthful, even if they wanted to, and they are in fact, natural born pathological liars and nothing they say can be believed, they are the best in the world at presenting believable lies, remember they don’t
    think there is anything wrong with homosexuality even though the evidence is overwhelming that it is 100% wrong.
    They were born unclean to atheist parents and are a creation of the devil.
    God only knows why this has been allowed to happen, but they are the most destructive and seductive Satanic cult in the
    world, hands down.

    • Mr Twink

      What utter nonsense, indeed I question the mental health of anyone who makes so many unsubstantiated assumptions.Whether or not people want to believe in an unsubstantiated God is there affair but I think statements like yours show very clearly why we must never go back to the days where religion was a powerful governing force.I imagine you are quite old, and I would think probably bitter into the bargain, the name Howard is certainly not in current use, but your views are your own.For my part, I will defend the gays against God almighty if it should happen to come to outright conflict. I will not see whole groups of humanity condemned by parsimonious preachers. You would proclaim a God that satisfy your own needs,as indeed the faithful of Islam proclaim their ‘own’ God and would denounce many of your values. Likewise the Hindus, the Buddhists and the Jews, all variations upon a theme, all proclaiming their own exclusive proprietorial rights to the divine. I strongly suspect that when you finally arrive at a position to discover the truth you will be met with the proclamation ”Get ye hence, ye never really knew me”

      • howard bell

        “Have I

        • Mr Twink

          But are you telling the truth, or are you deluded by a book? You have no original thought, no intuitive insight, you are what is known as a reiterater and your values are subjective. Whether your bile is directed toward the gays, unmarried mothers or the warriors of Islam doesn’t much matter, it’s substance is based upon your own interpretation, hatred and fear, it is not original thought. But I think , taken in the context of Christianity the most important thing is, it lacks love, and if Christ stood for nothing else, he stood for love. Your hatred shines like a beacon, and it is sufficient to blind you. You cannot enter the promised land carrying such hatred. Whatever the gays are or are not, they are God’s concern, not yours, look to the beam in your own eye.

          • howard bell

            “The one who is throwing you into confusion, whoever that may
            be, will have to pay the penalty.”….Galatians 5:10

          • Mr Twink

            Which of us is being thrown into confusion, you or me? A little less quoting and a little more heartseaching might not be such a bad thing.

          • howard bell

            “Do not listen to foolish talk about things that mean nothing.
            It only leads people further away from God”…Timothy 2:16

          • Mr Twink

            I doubt you really know God, you certainly don’t speak as one who does. Apart from looking up the odd quote on the net , and a diatribe of vitriol against the Gays you have said nothing.

          • howard bell

            “I fear for you that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you”
            Galatians 4:11

          • Mr Twink

            The feeling is reciprocated .

          • Sam

            Up until 1973 homosexuality and trans-genders were considered a mental illness by science: the Academy of Pediatrics. Now all of a sudden, because of politics, NOT science, it’s supposedly not only acceptable, but all should embrace it.

            Why all of a sudden, does our society throw out over 2,000 years of Judeo-Christian foundation to our civilization? The bible teaches that this is the type of glorified behavior we will see in the last days. I pray God gives repentance to our troubled nation to repent before it is too late. Make no mistake, He will not allow sin to go unpunished. He has provided a way out through Christ.

  • howard bell

    We know what we need to know about them.
    The time for talk is over.
    It’s time to take care of business.

    • Mr Twink

      Are you threatening violence. I think the time has maybe come to report you to the moderator.

  • Gary Metzger

    No problem. Every Christian should arm themselves. You want to threaten me with violence for simply believing what is backed up by statistics, that the gay life is infused with sadness and sorrow because of life-shortening illnesses alone? Come and get me. You’ll be sorry.

  • aurbonas

    This article focuses on Christians. Yes, we may be targeted. However, don’t forget that Jewish, Muslim and other major religions will also be in the same boat. Morality is one of the common grounds that we do share. It is our responsibility to oppose this hostility in the marketplace of ideas, not with physical violence and guns, but with logic and persuasive argument. That is what Scripture calls us to do.

    I saw a clip on youtube in which Bob Hope said that in California, they had just legalized homosexuality. He continued, “I decided to leave before they made it compulsory.”

  • Babydragon

    Why is it when your privilege is challenged you cry foul? Your religions has been used to persecute, enslave and demean people all over the world for centuries. Why now when your bigotry and hate are being challenged you wonder why? Sad!

    • Cynara2

      Privelege? Being thrown to the lions?

      • Babydragon

        You speak of something that was done centuries ago as proof you have no privilege…….really? wow! Dug deep for that one didn’t you.

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