From Muhammad to Christ: One Convert’s Story

In this in-depth, 2.5-hour interview, Ismail Youssef, a former Muslim, explains his journey to faith in Christ and his conversion to Catholicism. He lays out to Matt Fradd of Pints with Aquinas the contradictions, injustices, and oppressive teachings of Muhammad. Yousef now devotes his life to bringing the truth of Christianity to Muslims worldwide, despite the danger this puts him in from extremists.

Editor’s Note: The transcript that follows was automatically generated and lightly edited, so please be aware there could be typos or other small errors. The Stream is working toward a transcription service that does fast, accurate, and reliable work; thank you in advance for your patience!

00:00:00:03 – 00:00:18:18
Violence is 100% intrinsic to Islam. One of the last phrases that Muhammad said is a murder and a court order, and that’s hard to highlight in the law that I have been commanded to fight the world until everyone says there is no God but Allah, it is 100% intrinsic. In the same way, love is 100% part of Christianity.

00:00:18:26 – 00:00:36:03
We have to stop viewing Islam as another religion, but there has to be a gathering of Christians saying this is a heresy that needs to be stopped. That’s like the vision of Islam is to take over the world basically by any means necessary, to the extent that they will lie. And there’s this concept called Tucker, which means, like hiding the truth.

00:00:36:04 – 00:00:54:28
So this is a concept that you can use in order to forward the Muslim agenda. I’ve seen it in debates all the time where I see a muslim say something in a debate, and I know for a fact he is lying and he knows he’s lying.

00:00:55:00 – 00:00:57:02
Ishmael, great to have you on points with Aquinas.

00:00:57:03 – 00:00:58:00
Thank you so much.

00:00:58:02 – 00:01:11:17
Now we have to acknowledge this, this thing that you’ve brought me. This is single malt whiskey. Yep. Aged ten years. Canadian spirit of Nova Scotia. Thank you. It’s very nice of country.

00:01:11:19 – 00:01:14:06
Nova Scotia here.

00:01:14:08 – 00:01:29:15
This is great. And my very classy whiskey glasses. We have. Thanks so much, man. How did this happen? You reached out to me over Instagram or somebody did, telling me about your story. Okay, I looked into you. It was impressive.

00:01:29:17 – 00:01:31:29
There. I have a friend in Scotland.

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Her name’s, Shannon. Yeah, and she follows my stuff. So I have, like, a very small, like, ministry. I kind of do that. Yeah. I’m trying to evangelize to Muslims.

00:01:40:22 – 00:01:41:05
God bless.

00:01:41:05 – 00:01:49:29
You. And, she follows it because she lives in Scotland. And over there we see the, like, massive communities growing significantly and like the UK.

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And can I open this? That’s the question.

00:01:52:13 – 00:01:57:23
That’s a great question. I have no idea. I actually was in the duty free at the airport. I didn’t know which one to pick.

00:01:57:26 – 00:02:03:13
Yeah, yeah for sure. So I was in the duty free and I was texting my friend. His name is Ken and.

00:02:03:13 – 00:02:05:16
He’s really into whiskey, so I was like, which one should I get him?

00:02:05:21 – 00:02:07:13
Yeah. And he’s like, get this one.

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And he showed it to me. And it was, it actually wasn’t in the duty free. Okay. So I was just.

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Like.

00:02:12:00 – 00:02:17:06
I’m just gonna get on Nova Scotia. Okay, I saw that. I grabbed it right away and I was like, all right, hopefully it’s good. So yeah.

00:02:17:09 – 00:02:18:28
Is Keith still a big beer?

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Keith’s in.

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Canada. Yeah, I remember when I was there it was like the the thing back in 2002.

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So what I wanted to do was bring Keith. But

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My.

00:02:28:10 – 00:02:39:00
Friends who may be listening to this right now said don’t bring Keith is not the best beer, which I disagree upon. I think Keith has the best beer. Okay. But, yeah. So that was my first plan. But.

00:02:39:00 – 00:02:39:17
Yeah, well.

00:02:39:17 – 00:02:42:26
This is great, man. It’s a longer table than usual.

00:02:42:28 – 00:02:45:01
Yeah. It is. Thank you so much.

00:02:45:03 – 00:02:54:21
Yeah. Beautiful. All right. Cheers. Yes. Cheers to you. Praise God.

00:02:54:24 – 00:02:55:18
It’s lovely.

00:02:55:20 – 00:02:57:12
That’s pretty good.

00:02:57:15 – 00:02:59:05
So you are a convert from Islam?

00:02:59:05 – 00:03:03:02
I am, that’s wild. You want me to begin from the beginning?

00:03:03:06 – 00:03:09:00
And when you say convert, you don’t mean like I read some of the Koran once, but no.

00:03:09:01 – 00:03:17:10
No, no, no. I grew up Sunni Muslim in Egypt, like, I, I, I read full like classical Arabic.

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I thought the whole nine yards.

00:03:18:23 – 00:03:19:02
Yeah.

00:03:19:03 – 00:03:23:15
I am legitimately so looking forward to hearing your story.

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I mean.

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I don’t want to praise myself when people hear my story. They, I really love it. And I’m really grateful to God that people are able to hear my story and have such a huge, like moment, almost, and like, appreciate what God’s doing in the Muslim world. But, yeah, I’m excited to share it too. So.

00:03:41:08 – 00:03:43:24
Okay, well, let’s begin at the beginning.

00:03:43:26 – 00:03:49:03
All right. I’ll just go through where I’m from, I guess. Holy. I was actually born.

00:03:49:03 – 00:03:59:24
In Halifax, Canada. I was born to my mom, who actually grew up with Jehovah’s Witness, and my dad, who is from Egypt, and she.

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She he.

00:04:01:03 – 00:04:26:09
Grew up a Sunni Muslim. And for a long time my mom didn’t care about religion. So she grew up in the religion. And it seemed that for some reason that faith didn’t really resonate with her. It seemed very pushy on her. So when she was like 14, she left religion like altogether. And then she got married to my dad at the age of 17.

00:04:26:11 – 00:04:48:00
And my dad was around 27, 28. So there’s a huge age gap there. But they actually met at a wedding, which is interesting. So my dad went to Halifax from Egypt to be at this wedding. And, they met there and I never remember if it was three weeks or three months, but it was something like that where they’re like sitting there and they’re like, should we get married?

00:04:48:00 – 00:04:55:16
And they’re like, yeah, it’s like, how about next Friday? So they’re like, okay, they went, they went, got married like the next Friday. They’re like after like a couple of weeks of knowing each other.

00:04:55:16 – 00:04:56:23
Whereabouts was this?

00:04:56:25 – 00:05:11:20
This was still in Halifax. Yeah. But, my dad had to, go back to Egypt for a long time. There, like political issues or some business issues. So he went back to Egypt, I think, for a few years, and then came back to Canada. And my mom eventually moved to Egypt with him.

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So my mom kind of became a muslim.

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Not by faith. She didn’t believe in it at all, but because of the practicality of living in Egypt. Especially because having children. So eventually she had my brother and she had me. And in Islamic law, if a Christian, a muslim, have kids, if the wife is still alive after the husband dies, she doesn’t get inheritance. The kids, well, so and at the time, Egypt was enforcing that law and she wanted to be able to, like, have a good life in case anything happened to my dad.

00:05:46:15 – 00:06:00:07
So she went down to the, allows her mosque, which is like the huge mosque in Egypt. I got a paper saying she became a Sunni Muslim, call it a day. And she’s been a quote unquote Muslim ever since. And, yeah.

00:06:00:07 – 00:06:01:22
And she I would say she.

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Thinks Islam is better than Christianity because it makes more rational sense to her in the sense that, like, there’s one God. God, not a human being, is do good works. You get to heaven. She does know, like the bad things about it and all the political issues and the life of like the prophet and bringing into it later.

00:06:21:14 – 00:06:39:03
But it seems to not bother her because she thinks every religion is corrupt and she just kind of lives this like life where religion is very useless, but just believe in God. Then there’s my dad, and my dad is, a very devout Muslim. So he prays five times a day.

00:06:39:09 – 00:06:41:12
And this is in Halifax. He’s still together.

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They’re still together? Yeah. So we’re not born here. Let’s go back up.

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So the.

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My dad has been a devout Muslim. She converted to Islam because they have my my brother. And the whole inheritance thing there was like just easier for my mom to like, get inheritance. And what happens is my dad seemed to like have the switch where he actually wasn’t super devout. And almost overnight he became very devout Muslim. So my mom would tell me how he came home one day and grabbed all the alcohol from the fridge and threw it down the drain, and then he actually, like, was considering like the divorce.

00:07:19:19 – 00:07:23:09
Also, this is just for my family. Sorry I’m telling all this.

00:07:23:12 – 00:07:26:11
Like they’re considering divorcing, but, what.

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Was it that happened in your father’s life? Does he ever tell you?

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I think he met another Muslim who had a very radical concept of the religion. Yeah, and wanted to push him into being very radical.

00:07:36:22 – 00:07:39:00
Sure. And it worked.

00:07:39:00 – 00:07:54:07
Almost. And he had this moment where he just gave up cigarets. He gave up alcohol. He was like, we’re only going to eat halal meats. We’re, you know, maybe it’s not that bad to have a second wife. And that’s this was hectic on my mom. I bet all my mom.

00:07:54:07 – 00:07:55:14
Is from like.

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Nova Scotia, Canada. Like, yeah, small town Canadian. Just like the only immigrant they have is like the one Indian guy down the street who owns, like, the supermarket. That’s all they’ve known. And then all of a sudden, she’s married in the middle of the Middle East, and my dad’s freaking out about Islam. So it was a huge flip for her.

00:08:16:01 – 00:08:37:09
And. It’s just interesting how my dad went through his phase in a cool down a little bit, but it never went back to normal. So till today, he’s a very devout Sunni Muslim. And so he’ll actually wake up every morning and go to the mosque just to pray morning prayer, which is not a requirement at all. You have to only go to the mosque like on Fridays.

00:08:37:11 – 00:08:41:21
But he goes like morning prayer, evening sometimes night prayer. He’ll go.

00:08:41:23 – 00:08:44:08
He’s like one of the most religious.

00:08:44:08 – 00:08:54:22
Muslims I know. Yeah. And so then they had my brother and they had me and they actually named me Ishmael are an Arabic Ismail because.

00:08:54:25 – 00:08:55:07
My name.

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Means the father of two Arabs in Arabic, and it also means God listens. So they thought it was very poetic and very beautiful, that like a law was listening to me.

00:09:03:19 – 00:09:06:12
And I was kind of like.

00:09:06:15 – 00:09:28:24
Their pride, almost. So I was born with a disability. I’m visually impaired and because of my visual impairment, my dad saw that God would be very easy on me in my life. He thought that God would almost relax any punishments he’d give to me. I’d say like I have sinned, so I eat pork or I fornicate it. God will not be as harsh on me because I have an excuse.

00:09:28:24 – 00:09:35:20
Because I’m disabled and so I was almost like, like the pride of the family.

00:09:35:22 – 00:09:40:08
And. Yeah, and my brother, I guess he was also.

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Like, very cherished. But there’s something unique about me, and there’s something almost like we have to protect Ishmael. We have to make sure he’s always like, in the faith. He’s always going to be okay. His house is going to be okay. And so I went to a muslim academy in Halifax. It’s still around today. And, we, I went there for just like kindergarten, like till the age of five.

00:10:03:28 – 00:10:12:24
And my dad basically came to the decision that they weren’t teach me anything, which they weren’t. They basically like or like the Koran says, God exists, go to bed.

00:10:12:28 – 00:10:18:19
Like they were. They were very much like, we’re not going to teach these five year olds about Islam. So my dad’s like, we’re going to go.

00:10:18:19 – 00:10:24:13
Back to Egypt so he can learn about Arabic and the Koran and stuff. So I went to an American international school.

00:10:24:13 – 00:10:25:27
So your whole family moved?

00:10:26:03 – 00:10:30:10
Yes. Back. So my brother and I can learn Arabic and we can be able to read.

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With your mom.

00:10:31:04 – 00:10:56:26
Yes. Yeah. So at this time, like, they wanted us to be born in Canada because Canada is a safer country. Yeah. And my dad was thinking that because there’s a muslim school in Halifax, it would work out, but it just wasn’t good. So they came the decision to go back to Egypt. And so like, I think I was around five when we went back and I don’t remember this is from like my mom telling me.

00:10:56:29 – 00:11:16:00
And I remember one time when I was six that, a muslim cleric came to the house to try to teach us the Koran. And I think this was the first time I had doubts in Islam, was actually at six. I actually ever told him on this. But he said something about the Jews.

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And it was like something about.

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How anyone who is of Jewish ethnicity or Jewish religion, not like their less, but like their blood is like more halal, like their blood is halal being permissible.

00:11:31:06 – 00:11:45:03
And even my dad was like, this is a little much like what? What do you mean? For me, this was like, well, in like I he was going on about this and then my mom like being from like the West. She’s like, this can’t go on their house. So this guy teaching them like.

00:11:45:03 – 00:12:02:13
So my dad’s like, yeah, you can’t come back anymore. Yeah. And that was the first time I was like, I know what that was about. But that was weird. The second time happened, when I was around 8 or 9. And so it was in Canada. So every summer I’d go back to Canada to visit family, and we’re sitting in a Walmart parking lot.

00:12:02:15 – 00:12:09:08
And I asked my brother waiting because we don’t want to go into the Walmart. We were tired and my mom’s just getting groceries, and I’m just like.

00:12:09:10 – 00:12:12:26
Do the Christians think God like, became a man?

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And my brother’s like, yeah, some like that. Like, you know, like and like this is just what he said. I’m not saying this is this sounds blasphemous, but it’s like the words of a yeah, 12 year old kid, like, oh, I guess like God had sex with Mary. And then they had Jesus was like, so is that like God or the Son of God and say, don’t worry about too much.

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And I was like.

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I’m kind of worried about it because I will actually I will worry. I’ll think about it for a second, because what do you mean God produced God?

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So I thought about it and I was like, Can God enter universe? Probably if he’s God, he can do that. But it was just like a thought and then it went away.

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And then I remember.

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Probably around 12. This is another hint. So God keeps saying these hints throughout my life and around 12. This was a big hint. We had a teacher and I’m going to say his name because I think he deserves props. He he was a secret Protestant missionary at the school in Egypt. So I went to an American school there.

00:13:13:22 – 00:13:16:13
Come on. And he he was.

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A math teacher, but he hinted about the gospel every time he could friggin walk.

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Brought us stuff.

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Dude. They’re amazing. There means I can do in this. We gotta do this better. But is this like he he would say like, oh, like, I love how Muslims are so devoted.

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Will praying to God like five times a day. It’s amazing.

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And it’s like, but how do you learn about love? And then we’ll talk about love.

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And he’d be.

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Like, yeah, I is there is this one quote how, like this guy said, even if like, your enemies hate you, I love them. They could quote the scriptures in a way that like what?

00:13:49:13 – 00:13:55:03
And so you. So you’re telling me this Protestant white missionary infiltrated a muslim school?

00:13:55:06 – 00:13:58:24
Yeah. Two schools. American. But like you pardon the schools in American schools.

00:13:58:25 – 00:14:00:08
But for Muslims.

00:14:00:10 – 00:14:01:22
It’s like 90% Muslim. Yeah.

00:14:01:22 – 00:14:02:13
Okay.

00:14:02:15 – 00:14:03:01
It’s like.

00:14:03:01 – 00:14:06:27
But if it if he was out and out about being a Christian, he.

00:14:06:27 – 00:14:10:10
Would he be kicked out the country. Yeah. 100%.

00:14:10:13 – 00:14:13:15
So he would do that. What’s his name? His name is Tyler Ross.

00:14:13:17 – 00:14:14:21
And God bless you, Tyler.

00:14:14:21 – 00:14:20:15
I would love to see him again. I, I know I remember you is from Louisiana and if he is still there.

00:14:20:16 – 00:14:22:18
Like you can find me online. Reach out to me.

00:14:22:18 – 00:14:28:11
Everyone I’ve ever met from Louisiana has been amazing. So that that confirms my already bias about Louisiana.

00:14:28:15 – 00:14:30:28
Oh yeah. No, he was great. And he would like. Yeah.

00:14:30:28 – 00:14:31:23
So what would he do?

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And it wasn’t even math like we’re learning about like algebra and ten minutes into the.

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Class person’s one God.

00:14:37:21 – 00:14:43:14
Yes. Yes. Oh my God. I’m like. And then there was this girl in at the school who began.

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To, like, change her mind about religion.

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In what.

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Direction? Like to Jesus.

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And because of.

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Him. Yes.

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So they started meeting.

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And I’m going to keep her name like.

00:14:55:09 – 00:15:14:00
Anonymous. I don’t know where she’s doing her life, but she wouldn’t like me with them. And eventually her parents found out and then they contacted the school. Then they contact Egyptian government and they kicked him out of the country. Wow. I never heard of him again. But now, looking back on my life, knowing the scriptures, I know what he was talking about.

00:15:14:03 – 00:15:27:02
I know that he was quoting Jesus’s words, but like indirectly and saying things like, wouldn’t it be better if like, you know, it says in the Koran, like an eye for an eye or a tooth for a tooth, but wouldn’t it be better if, like.

00:15:27:04 – 00:15:34:17
You know, if someone punches you, you just like turn, love, turn the other cheek? Yeah. Like I think there’s a hints in there and I’m like, yeah, it would be.

00:15:34:17 – 00:15:36:01
Better, Mr. Tyler.

00:15:36:03 – 00:15:51:09
It’s good. Good. Yeah, it’s a great insight. It’s a great way of doing it. We learned no math that year, but like like algebra the like the textbook was useless. But yeah, yeah. And I loved it. It was great. And that was.

00:15:51:09 – 00:16:10:13
The first hint because I started recognizing that his points, even though I wasn’t really sure what was coming from, were better than the the faith I was growing up with. So like, eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, the like. If I keep doing that, eventually the end of the like the world is going to end. Looks like it’s a mutually assured destruction.

00:16:10:13 – 00:16:22:28
We’re all going to kill ourselves and it seems that, like whatever he was saying seemed correct. And that was grade seven. And then there was grade eight and someone else.

00:16:23:04 – 00:16:24:05
And I don’t know if the school.

00:16:24:05 – 00:16:34:18
Like the American school plan this out of is just luck of the draw. But my history teacher, his name is Mr. Hurst. I forget his first name did the same thing. Come on in history class.

00:16:34:21 – 00:16:37:21
And he would be like, yeah, we always learn.

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History from one perspective, you know, like here in the Middle East, we learn about the Americans invading Iraq and all this stuff.

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But I like to.

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Go deeper into ancient history, like in the Roman Empire, like they colonized this place called Palestine.

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I’m like, well, I’m a and I’m not I don’t know what’s going on. Yeah. But now I’m looking back. I’m like, oh my goodness.

00:16:55:27 – 00:16:57:11
He was basically tell me about.

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Like and he would use like Muslim phrase like like, you know, like Issa.

00:17:00:13 – 00:17:03:13
Jesus lived during that age. And what did he preach? And then also.

00:17:03:19 – 00:17:06:19
The kids would be like, oh, you know, he said, love people like.

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Submit to Allah.

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Whatever. And then he’s like, that’s a good like he I don’t know where he got these people, but every class, like every grade.

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There was like one missionary.

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And I don’t know what happened.

00:17:18:06 – 00:17:31:18
To him, but eventually he had to leave Egypt as well, maybe for similar reasons. And then I think the biggest one was grade nine and his name was,

00:17:31:21 – 00:17:58:23
Mr. Norman Lyons, I think. And he, I forget where he’s from, but he told my mom that he was a born again Christian and that he was in shock about the hypocrisy in the Middle East where Muslims, Muslims in general, not all obviously will say like, yeah, we have to stay pure before marriage. But then they will. Then he’ll walk in the hallways of the school and see people having sex.

00:17:58:25 – 00:18:01:15
And he’s like, what? Like, do you guys not believe this religion?

00:18:01:17 – 00:18:03:01
And he would call people out.

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And he was like, and he was very straightforward. He was like, my religion says this. Your guys doesn’t like you guys need to practice what you preach because we’re older in grade nine now. Like maybe he’s like getting.

00:18:13:04 – 00:18:21:00
Harsher and he didn’t last long. I feel like someone complained. Like they eventually say that he had to leave. And that was my.

00:18:21:00 – 00:18:29:22
Last, year in Egypt for school. And then I went to Canada for high school and at this time.

00:18:29:22 – 00:18:32:09
What was your opinion of Christians generally at that.

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Point? I love them.

00:18:33:15 – 00:18:33:24
Okay.

00:18:33:27 – 00:18:35:13
I generally thought they’re amazing.

00:18:35:15 – 00:18:38:13
And your only experience of them was these teachers.

00:18:38:14 – 00:18:41:08
Well, there’s the Coptic in Egypt. Yeah, yeah. And they’ve never treated me bad.

00:18:41:09 – 00:18:44:21
And you knew them. You were friendly with them. Yes, I was the cops.

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The Catholics as well.

00:18:46:00 – 00:19:00:11
And they know that they can’t say a lot in public like. And there’s huge discrimination against Coptic Christians. I know people whose villages were burnt down. I know people who, like their grandparents, were murdered by like just someone finding onto a Coptic.

00:19:00:13 – 00:19:05:18
And were you ever friendly enough with them such that you were going to their houses and interacting?

00:19:05:18 – 00:19:24:29
Yes. And to backtrack, I guess there’s another time. There was, this guy needs to be shot. Our name is Imad Ramzy, and he, we were messing around in like grade three, and, I don’t we were wrestling, but I something like, follow his pocket. I took it and in Arabic it was says like prayers to the Theotokos.

00:19:25:01 – 00:19:32:23
And I looked at it, I was like, what is this? He was like, oh, the Theotokos started talking about who Mary is, and I’m just in grade three. I don’t know what’s going on.

00:19:32:23 – 00:19:34:23
Yeah, but he had the.

00:19:34:23 – 00:19:45:00
Courage to tell me it could have said, oh, it’s nothing, and put in his pocket. And after I had my conversion, I actually contacted him to tell him that I became a Christian because he deserved to know.

00:19:45:00 – 00:19:46:05
Like and.

00:19:46:06 – 00:19:59:24
Now he’s living in California, so he’s in a good, safe place. But he is very excited and he follows me. And like every like once a year I talk to him, see how he’s doing. Wonderful. Yeah. So yeah, there was all these signs.

00:19:59:27 – 00:20:01:27
And what really bothered me.

00:20:02:00 – 00:20:17:05
Is that they never said anything bad about the Muslims. Not once. The Coptic never said anything bad. But every time I was hanging out with Muslims, every time it was the word, niggas was like thrown around, meaning unclean.

00:20:17:11 – 00:20:17:26
Okay?

00:20:17:26 – 00:20:40:29
They were unclean. Why? Well, they think God is a man. That’s the biggest blasphemy. That’s unclean. They eat pork, they’re unclean, they drink. It’s unclean. They. I don’t know just anything. They’ll come up with anything to say about unclean. But every time I’m with the Christians, the Coptic Christians are even the missionaries. They never attacked the people. They never saw anything about it, about Muslims.

00:20:41:05 – 00:20:43:07
Probably because they would be persecuted.

00:20:43:14 – 00:20:46:22
That’s true. But I think they trusted me enough because of think.

00:20:46:23 – 00:20:47:07
They would all.

00:20:47:08 – 00:21:06:25
That they would have if they could. But their faith kind of like it goes back to that verse in the season where we fight against, spirits and principalities, not against like blood and flesh and human beings. They knew that it wasn’t the Muslims fault. Yeah. Is there’s something else going on and we can talk more about what I think that is.

00:21:06:27 – 00:21:10:12
But, so all the things happen, and.

00:21:10:12 – 00:21:12:03
At this point I’m getting like.

00:21:12:06 – 00:21:17:22
Grade nine was a shift in my, my faith where I was actually getting more and more radicalized.

00:21:17:24 – 00:21:19:26
When this like, what does that look like?

00:21:19:28 – 00:21:21:05
It looks like when.

00:21:21:05 – 00:21:35:05
The Charlie Hebdo attacks happened in France, where they try to draw Mohammed thing. Yeah. My first instincts were they kind of deserved it. That was my first thought as a 15 year old. And I don’t.

00:21:35:07 – 00:21:36:25
Like I can sell and you’re living.

00:21:36:25 – 00:21:37:20
In Halifax at this.

00:21:37:20 – 00:21:39:26
Point. This is right before going.

00:21:39:26 – 00:21:59:04
From Egypt to Halifax like it happened, I think, in April and the school year ended in May. June said, we’re gonna go to Halifax. And that was my first thought. And it spooked me because I was like, why did I come to my mind that my first thought was they deserved what they were getting because they made fun of Muhammad.

00:21:59:06 – 00:22:00:20
And it’s almost.

00:22:00:22 – 00:22:20:04
Like it wasn’t me thinking because I was a pretty rational person I was talking to. I mean, people who are atheist or Christians. I knew gay Muslims and I had no problem with them. But something about offending Muhammad triggered me in a way. When I was 15. Then I went to Canada and in the Western world everything is on the table to make fun of.

00:22:20:10 – 00:22:24:10
So like going to a high school in Canada and

00:22:24:12 – 00:22:41:15
We went there actually, because my brother graduated high school in Egypt. So we all decided, like, my dad want to retire from his job, my mom want to go back to Halifax. And Halifax was always home. Egypt was just like where we went to school, and we decided to just, like, move all of us to Egypt or move all of us to Halifax.

00:22:41:18 – 00:22:48:02
And so I go to school there, and the first people I meet are atheists, like just out of the blue.

00:22:48:04 – 00:22:48:23
And it baffled.

00:22:48:23 – 00:22:49:06
Me kind of.

00:22:49:06 – 00:22:49:17
1 or 2.

00:22:49:17 – 00:22:50:29
Atheists, but I didn’t.

00:22:50:29 – 00:22:52:20
I never met 38 years in a row.

00:22:52:23 – 00:22:54:09
They never have in my entire life, where people just.

00:22:54:09 – 00:22:57:12
Generally don’t believe in God and never thought about in their lives.

00:22:57:14 – 00:23:17:20
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00:23:17:20 – 00:23:43:15
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00:23:43:15 – 00:23:51:00
That’s College of St joseph.com/careers College of Saint joseph.com/careers.

00:23:51:02 – 00:24:19:16
Thanks till this day like one of the atheists is my best friend. He’s seen me go from Muslim to Christian. He’s seen the whole like nine yards. And he’s still like my brother. He’s my best friend. And he supported me through the whole way. But he was a first, like real atheist. I sat down too and asked why he was, and he would say things like the scientific evidence or the theory of this or that, and I’m like, just words I’ve never even considered in my life about because logically, like things have to be created.

00:24:19:18 – 00:24:41:24
And that was how my mind worked. Okay. But living in this like secular country, because Canada is the furthest thing from a Christian country at this point. And just hearing all these arguments and seeing sin, well, most of the Christians like they don’t agree about like a lot of things. But as a muslim, like 15 year old, I saw sin.

00:24:41:27 – 00:25:00:26
I saw people having sex for marriage, I saw people doing drugs like I, and I was like, they don’t have a moral compass, They’re just doing things for like, this hedonistic pleasure. And I have like a midlife or not, a midlife crisis, but the core life crisis. I was like.

00:25:00:28 – 00:25:08:12
People don’t believe in God. What, like people don’t fear God like you’re talking about? They would talk about like.

00:25:08:12 – 00:25:30:02
Syrian refugees are like people dying in Africa as like a joke because they’re children. They’re like teenagers and they’re making memes about it. Yeah. And my first instincts, like, I have lived in Middle East, I’ve seen these people. They’re human beings. Yeah. And but because they’re so they desensitize and so separate from that part of the world, they don’t know that they’re real human beings.

00:25:30:02 – 00:25:37:01
You’re just seeing pictures. And it made me really question a life in question. If God existed.

00:25:37:08 – 00:25:52:07
I would think if I were in your shoes or if somebody else were in your shoes, it might reinforce their Islamic convictions, because here you have what you were raised with, and you kind of come across godless people.

00:25:52:15 – 00:26:22:19
At first I did, yeah. Until I started, till the atheists started asking me why I believe in Islam. Okay. And I started telling them about the Koran and all the miracles it had and about Muhammad’s life, or at least the version I was taught to me. Yeah. And the evidence behind it. But. The friend who I talked about before, who still my best friend, simply asked me, why don’t you read about his life?

00:26:22:22 – 00:26:24:27
That’s all I said. I was like.

00:26:24:29 – 00:26:26:20
From who? What account did.

00:26:26:20 – 00:26:30:16
He like the Muslim accounts? Just go read by your own religion says about Muhammad’s life.

00:26:30:16 – 00:26:34:18
And did he say that because he thought he knew what Muhammad was like? But you didn’t?

00:26:34:21 – 00:26:53:23
Yes. Yeah. He had a gut feeling. I didn’t actually know Muhammad’s in his life. Yeah. And I’m just going to be very frank with you. Like so the just to give some clarification, the Koran is, the direct word of God and in the hadith are the sayings are the teachings of Muhammad.

00:26:53:24 – 00:26:55:06
Yeah. This is how it’s understood.

00:26:55:06 – 00:27:00:21
Yeah, yeah. So it’s almost like the Bible and the church tradition. That’s the best way to explain to a Catholic.

00:27:00:21 – 00:27:01:27
Yeah, yeah.

00:27:02:00 – 00:27:22:21
The Koran itself, there is issues in it. But I would say if there are Muslims that only believe in the Koran, they’re a huge minority and are relatively peaceful because the Quran is just a lot of it’s just stories of prophets where when it comes to the hadith or the saying. So the collections of Muhammad’s life. It’s not pretty, it’s pretty bad.

00:27:22:24 – 00:27:24:28
I think that you read much of the hadith before then.

00:27:25:05 – 00:27:31:02
There’s some good in it, and I was taught the 3 or 4 good things, okay, and not the 9 or 10 terrible things.

00:27:31:05 – 00:27:35:11
So after your friend challenged you, that was one of the first things you went to to study.

00:27:35:18 – 00:27:36:14
Well.

00:27:36:17 – 00:27:53:21
Yeah, I read it on a Monday. I remember it took me a week to leave Islam. I read, I opened up the hadith on a Monday and I didn’t have to use a translation. I spoke fluent Arabic and there’s this verse in the Koran. This was the first hint and it says, I’ll just say it in.

00:27:53:21 – 00:27:55:06
Arabic, in the Koran of the hadith.

00:27:55:06 – 00:28:15:05
Well, this is in the Quran. First it says, or in other words, you him. For a man. And what permissible for you is your wives and what your your right hand possesses. Now in English they try to change a little bit which side note never trust an English version on the Koran. Are the daddies. You can get to that later.

00:28:15:08 – 00:28:18:21
But in English they try to say that like.

00:28:18:23 – 00:28:21:17
Oh, it’s not saying what it’s saying, but I know Arabic.

00:28:21:20 – 00:28:23:01
So what’s it saying?

00:28:23:03 – 00:28:46:19
Right hand possession is a saying in Arabic, meaning slaves. So there’s something called as Babban Rasool in the hadith, which means the reasons for recitation or the reasons for this verse being like revealed by God. And the story goes basically to summarize, is Mohammed and his army. They surround the village and the village surrenders. And it’s a time of war.

00:28:46:22 – 00:29:08:26
And they asked him, like, what do we do about the wives and the women in the village who, you know, like their husbands are dead from the from the war, like they’re already married. They were married to them. And we actually don’t want to have sex with them. We don’t want to take them as wives. And Mohammed said that it is permissible to take them as wives against our will.

00:29:08:29 – 00:29:15:28
And as soon as I read that, I knew what was going to say. I know the saying, let’s do it. I read the clarification of the verse.

00:29:16:00 – 00:29:20:10
I was like.

00:29:20:12 – 00:29:32:03
So you’re assaulting women and you’re like, I can’t say the word for censorship, but you know what they’re doing? Like taking someone against their will. That’s terrible. I smell discussing there in my life when.

00:29:32:03 – 00:29:34:26
You said you looked at the interpretation of it, what does that mean?

00:29:34:26 – 00:29:44:19
Or when you. So there’s a few commentators that they’re called, tafsir, which just means commentators. And the most famous one is in the cathedral.

00:29:44:20 – 00:29:46:26
And he is.

00:29:46:28 – 00:30:12:26
By far the most populous, like in the entire Muslim world and like Saudi Arabia, like the people there, they love him. And he is probably the most accurate to he’s like, said Ignatius of Antioch, close to disciples type of thing. And he explains, this is what was happening. And he knows because he’s getting it from accounts of people who were in the battle and saying, this is what Muhammad said to do in the battle.

00:30:12:28 – 00:30:35:24
And my first instinct was almost to throw up, like, because I couldn’t, I couldn’t do that. I can never do that to someone. And then other things would come up. Very popular. One is, one of his wives, Aisha, was nine years old when they consummated the marriage. And people can say that all was a different time and place.

00:30:35:26 – 00:31:01:05
There’s an issue with that. Number one, he’s called the judgment and the enemy and that he’s a mercy to mankind, Muhammad, for all times and places. So if he is a prophet of God, it should be suitable for all times. Number two, it said that she was playing with dolls. And in Islam, dolls are prohibited because they look like idols at the time and which there was an exception for her because of her age.

00:31:01:11 – 00:31:11:04
It says this in the hadith, and it also says in the hadith that Ayesha, being the daughter of this man of a bucker, Abubakar was not happy with the marriage.

00:31:11:06 – 00:31:13:17
This is. This is Aisha’s father. Yeah, okay.

00:31:13:24 – 00:31:36:24
He was not happy with it. Another one was one of his companions. Like one of Muhammad’s companions wanted to marry his daughter Fatima, who was 12. And he said she’s too young to be married. And I don’t have the historical records with me. But at the time, the Byzantine Empire, forbade any marriages for anyone under the age of 14.

00:31:36:27 – 00:31:46:26
So at the time, we have records that this was not acceptable even in the time period of six century. Like Arabia, our Byzantine area like that wasn’t acceptable to Muslims.

00:31:46:26 – 00:31:50:25
Despite what you’re saying right now. They will. Are you sure? Being nine? And why are you to know?

00:31:50:26 – 00:32:11:25
They won’t dispute I won’t. Most Muslims will say she was nine. Some will just straight up like say no, she was 18. But the Muslims who are like legitimate will just say they’re lying. But it’s very clear. Like in the most authentic hadith it says he consummate the marriage at nine. Wow. And the argument is not maybe she wasn’t nine.

00:32:11:28 – 00:32:15:12
The argument is they matured quicker at that time.

00:32:15:12 – 00:32:16:19
To.

00:32:16:22 – 00:32:18:03
To our time.

00:32:18:06 – 00:32:19:06
To quicker.

00:32:19:08 – 00:32:26:18
They matured quicker like they would quicker. Yeah, they matured quicker. So like yeah, they’re physically like she had to have reached puberty.

00:32:26:18 – 00:32:42:01
I see. Which basically falls apart completely because there’s a verse in the Koran that says that you can have marriage or you can have intercourse with someone who hasn’t reached puberty. It says that in the Koran was says that.

00:32:42:02 – 00:32:46:01
If you it’s very hinted at okay, but basically.

00:32:46:01 – 00:32:46:24
Explicit.

00:32:46:26 – 00:33:07:18
Not explicit, which says if you’re in doubt, if you’re a wife, like from a previous marriage is, pregnant, wait three months, even if she’s had menstruate, it can’t menstruate anymore or hasn’t menstruating yet. So this is the verse hasn’t menstruating yet?

00:33:07:19 – 00:33:08:21
This is in the Quran?

00:33:08:21 – 00:33:15:02
Yeah. It’s, Surah Al Tulloch, which is chapter 65, verse four. It starts.

00:33:15:04 – 00:33:20:05
And this is in reference to a girl who’s already been married, but.

00:33:20:12 – 00:33:20:25
She has.

00:33:20:25 – 00:33:22:00
An menstruate menstruating.

00:33:22:00 – 00:33:39:07
And if you’re afraid that she’s pregnant somehow, wait three months. Even if she hasn’t menstruate, it so obviously this is a thing the Muslims are doing at the time. And obviously Muhammad married Aisha at nine years old and that’s just a fact of life. I, I don’t know how Muslims get around that.

00:33:39:09 – 00:33:46:21
And so you read this and was that shocking to you because you had already read the Quran? How was this news to you.

00:33:46:21 – 00:33:47:21
At the time? You know, when you read like.

00:33:47:21 – 00:33:51:21
A book, but you don’t really read what’s on the page, like you’re just like skimming it?

00:33:51:21 – 00:34:12:19
Yeah, I’m sure it’s gonna do that with the scriptures, with everything. Right? We, Yeah. And we tend to try to make sense of a book in light of what we do understand, right? Not what we don’t understand. So there are confusing passages in the scriptures that we seek to understand in light of what we do. That’s just how we try to understand any given thing.

00:34:12:21 – 00:34:14:07
And I think that’s probably what happened.

00:34:14:10 – 00:34:31:17
And yeah, it was there were I wonder, have you encountered Muslims who’ve tried to explain that away or are you finding that. No, no, because, I mean, I just saw a debate recently. Forgive me. What’s his name? There was a debate on child marriage, between a muslim and I think.

00:34:31:17 – 00:34:32:11
What are you talking. Oh, I.

00:34:32:11 – 00:34:35:03
Feel terrible that I’ve forgotten his name. He’s been on the show is fantastic.

00:34:35:03 – 00:34:39:28
Anyway, was the Samson moon? No, no, no. Christianity? No, I’m not sure.

00:34:39:28 – 00:34:43:01
Yeah, his name escapes me right now, but.

00:34:43:04 – 00:34:44:19
But no, like, forget this is.

00:34:44:22 – 00:34:51:15
I mean, I’m seeing people publicly talking about children being able to marry in Islam today. I’m seeing that on YouTube. Yep.

00:34:51:18 – 00:35:02:15
It’s acceptable. Didn’t think. The Koran says you can marry someone who has demonstrated that’s God’s word. Who are you to say that God’s word is wrong? Like that’s the thought process we’re working with.

00:35:02:17 – 00:35:07:27
So is there anything else you encountered at this time that you’re like, oh my gosh. And there are other things.

00:35:07:27 – 00:35:08:02
Yeah.

00:35:08:02 – 00:35:28:20
Because I think what would happen writers if a Christian encountered things about his faith, he would then seek like thinking, think of the destruction of the Canaanites. Or something like that. I could see a Christian encountering those verses and being scandalized by them. And then he would go and seek the wisdom of other Christians to try to interpret them.

00:35:28:23 – 00:35:30:12
Did you try to do that?

00:35:30:14 – 00:35:55:06
So on Islam, there’s a similar concept. So in Christianity we have we have to view the scriptures. And in the lens of Christ we have to see the Old Testament as Christ, like he’s going to come and fulfill it. Islam has a very similar, concept called abbreviation. I believe it’s the word is in which any later verses that contradict the earlier verses, they wipe them out.

00:35:55:06 – 00:36:24:21
So the later verses are ones you go with. Oh, okay. So there’s an issue though. Muhammad’s life, the beginning of it was very peaceful. The very end of it is where all the, well, pedophilia, like war, like sex slavery, all that stuff comes in and and that’s why Muslims and since Muhammad’s like, second period of his life till today are still in that second period, they’re in attack mode right now.

00:36:24:21 – 00:36:46:10
They’re trying to conquer the world. That’s like the vision of Islam is to take over the world, and it’s take over the world, basically by any means necessary. Like that. Any needs that we can use, any way we can do it, we’re going to do it. And to the extent that they will lie and there’s this concept called which means, like hiding the truth.

00:36:46:13 – 00:36:52:26
And they’ll do this. They’ll say like, because I’ve done it. And it’s basically like, yeah, we believe in Jesus.

00:36:52:28 – 00:36:54:18
And like, yeah, okay, he’s a son of God.

00:36:54:18 – 00:37:21:29
And like a metaphorical sense. And then, you know, like Constantine, like created Christianity a 300 and a John never existed. And they know these things are false, but it’s okay to say it in order to make the Christian become a muslim. So that concept of hiding the faith are hiding the truth of what’s going on in order to spread the message of Islam is like, it’s okay.

00:37:22:01 – 00:37:25:18
Was that something taught to you explicitly or just something you.

00:37:25:21 – 00:37:27:29
It was something that was taught.

00:37:28:01 – 00:37:31:20
Like, not like we used to.

00:37:31:23 – 00:37:40:21
To do this, but it was more like, if you want to tell people about Islam, you can lie, like, just just make it up.

00:37:40:24 – 00:37:41:27
Like it was like, literally.

00:37:41:27 – 00:38:00:11
People have told me, just make stuff up and order from the Muslim. And, that has happened during the Egyptian revolution in 2011, where the Muslim Brotherhood, they took power of the country and they’re basically like, they’re not like Hamas, but they it’s like Hamas lite, basically. I think it’s kind of how it is.

00:38:00:13 – 00:38:03:18
And they basically would tell the.

00:38:03:18 – 00:38:23:24
Children who supported them to lie to their parents about what the Muslim Brotherhood was doing and how they were giving out free food and medical supply and they were using it to do it. So this is a concept that you can use in order to forward the Muslim agenda. And I did it. Muslims do it and it’s done every day.

00:38:23:24 – 00:38:39:02
I’ve seen it in debates all the time where I see a muslim say something in a debate, and I know for a fact he is lying and he knows he’s lying, but that’s how they do it. And I don’t know how this goes back to where I was in my testimony.

00:38:39:02 – 00:38:41:19
The atheist was challenging you to read The Life of Muhammad.

00:38:41:19 – 00:38:43:02
Yeah. So the atheist was telling.

00:38:43:02 – 00:39:06:02
Me, I read all this stuff. It’s a Monday and I think Monday night I prayed my night prayer and on Tuesday I was like, still bothered me. So I sent out an email to this guy named Ali Dawah. And funny enough, he’s actually one of the people who says, like, we know that Muhammad married Aisha at nine years old.

00:39:06:08 – 00:39:23:15
We’re okay with that. He’s one of those people. So I actually messaged him and I said, hey, is this true? Like about like the sex slavery and all that stuff? The biggest one for me was the sex slavery. I just couldn’t imagine a prophet saying that. And he he messaged me back and he said, I, I’ll get back to this.

00:39:23:15 – 00:39:41:24
Like, don’t worry. And I was like, okay, awesome. And he never did. He never got back to me. But I think the reason why he never got back to me, because he knows his true. He eventually talked about it in debates and stuff, but yeah, he knew like he knows. It’s true. At least I’m assuming he knows it’s true.

00:39:41:26 – 00:39:55:21
And most Muslims know it’s true to the extent that we were actually joking about it. Once at a family dinner, I was a kid from my dad went to Indonesia, and he saw this guy there, and he had like five wives. And my dad was.

00:39:55:21 – 00:39:56:21
Like.

00:39:56:23 – 00:40:08:21
I saw you on lot four. And he was like, mama, look at your right hand position. And like, they start laughing. It’s like, see, I can have four. But if at my right hand positions I can have as much as I want. Yeah. So five, six, seven. It was a joke at the dinner table.

00:40:08:23 – 00:40:15:08
I didn’t realize how bad that was until I got older, but yeah.

00:40:15:10 – 00:40:24:17
So I contacted him. I started doing more research into the life of Muhammad, and things just kept popping up that were just like.

00:40:24:19 – 00:40:27:04
Who are you reading? What lives of Muhammad were you reading?

00:40:27:09 – 00:40:30:15
Saheb Bukhari and Sorry, Muslim. Which are the two most authentic?

00:40:30:15 – 00:40:35:12
Okay, so you’re not reading like, Christian propaganda or accounts.

00:40:35:12 – 00:40:39:08
Against at this point? Christianity is like so far, I couldn’t care less what Christian.

00:40:39:08 – 00:40:42:24
Was talking about. I say you’re reading what faithful Muslims are saying about Mohammed.

00:40:42:24 – 00:40:47:14
I’m reading what the whole Sunni Muslim world is like.

00:40:47:16 – 00:40:49:15
It’s like reading.

00:40:49:17 – 00:40:58:23
The Council of Trent in the Vatican. Two papers say that Jesus is not God like that. That’s how ground shaking this is. Wow. It’s that big.

00:40:58:25 – 00:41:05:11
And and what were you reading in these accounts of him that shocked you? The same kind of stuff or other things, or.

00:41:05:13 – 00:41:06:09
The way the revelation.

00:41:06:09 – 00:41:33:18
Happened was very odd. He was in a cave and this figure, which isn’t called Gabriel at the time, the Muslims say it’s Angel Gabriel, but at the beginning he didn’t even know the angel. Gabriel started choking him and telling him to recite a read. And Mohammed said, I can’t read. I’m illiterate and he’s running down the mountain. And he goes to his wife at the time and she says, don’t be scared.

00:41:33:18 – 00:41:38:04
I’ll take you to this priest. Then he they take him to his blind priest.

00:41:38:06 – 00:41:39:27
A Christian priest, right? Yeah, yeah.

00:41:40:03 – 00:42:04:19
Well, most likely an Arian are a story. Okay. Yeah. Because at the time, Arabia was filled with them. So they go to this priest who is blind but somehow knows all the scriptures. Okay. And he tells Mohammed that he’s a prophet, okay. And that it was the angel Gabriel that revealed this to you. So Mohammed didn’t even think it was the angel Gabriel first.

00:42:04:22 – 00:42:08:08
He just encounters a terrifying being who tries to strangle him.

00:42:08:08 – 00:42:10:22
Yes, in a cave in the middle of Arabia.

00:42:10:27 – 00:42:13:14
And doesn’t he come back to his wife, trembling with fear?

00:42:13:14 – 00:42:18:01
Yeah. He that the word he used wasn’t modernism. Baloney. Cover me, cover me. I’m shaking.

00:42:18:01 – 00:42:20:24
Keep it like the accounts are like.

00:42:20:27 – 00:42:38:17
An epileptic seizure. Like he would fall to the ground shaking and like former come out of his mouth and the the companions of like would be like, oh, Mohammed’s getting revelation like. And now we can look back and be like, there’s probably something medical going on that we have to help this man.

00:42:38:21 – 00:42:40:06
Yeah, well, demonic possession.

00:42:40:06 – 00:43:00:22
Yeah. Demonic possession. And so this happens. And Mohammed doesn’t hear from this demon or from quote unquote angel for, like, I don’t know if it’s a year or two, but it’s a period of time. And he gets so depressed that he tries to kill himself. He goes on top of this mountain Arabia and he’s about to throw himself.

00:43:00:25 – 00:43:22:09
Then this being appears again and says, don’t do it. Your God hasn’t forsaken you. Then he starts getting his revelations all the time and the beginning, like, there’s nothing wrong with these revelations. They’ll say like. Like I’m the lady and you have your religion, I have mine. Christians, Jews and Zoroastrians will inherit the kingdom of heaven.

00:43:22:11 – 00:43:52:13
Like, just like pretty peaceful stuff for now. Yeah, yeah. Like there’s only one God. Worship him. And there’s even a story about how when Muhammad conquers Mecca, he takes all the idols down. But Jesus and Mary takes the icons of Jesus, and Mary keeps up there because of like the there’s still like, huge figures in Islamic faith. So he was trying to like, convince Christians and Jews at the time to be part of this movement.

00:43:52:15 – 00:44:20:01
Eventually nothing really happens. So he has like 300 followers, like the people of Mecca don’t really. There’s some persecution because Mecca at the time was, a place where people went to pilgrimage and to like, give offerings to different gods. And if he’s preaching about one God, then it’s going to disturb the like economics of the city. So eventually he has to leave and the he actually sends, the Muslims, he doesn’t leave, sorry.

00:44:20:01 – 00:44:46:28
He sends the Muslims like a majority of them to Ethiopia, where there’s a Christian king and this Christian king. It’s, he belongs to the Eritrean Orthodox Church, so it still exists today. And he actually protects them from persecution. And this is actually kind of ironic because later on, the Muslim like conquest, they try to take over the Eritrean like king and try to, like, make him convert to Islam.

00:44:47:01 – 00:45:09:07
But this Christian king takes them in and protects him. And basically they make an alliance with the pagans of Arabia. And Muhammad is allowed to preach, but then he goes to Mecca or sorry, Medina, which is a different city. And there he becomes this governor of Medina. Like people could like they love him and he gets in control of everything.

00:45:09:07 – 00:45:28:20
Now, it’s not just religion, it’s politics. It’s the army, okay? It’s like, how are we going to separate the food sources for people during the hard months in the desert? And he gets this grudge on the people of Mecca who kicked him out. And he’s like, we got to go back to Mecca. Take take it over. Take over the the black.

00:45:28:23 – 00:45:41:18
Box, which is called the Kaaba, and make it for our religion. So he’s convinced that this has to come back to Muslim hands and say what you want about Muhammad. But, man, he’s a genius.

00:45:41:21 – 00:45:44:22
He he, like, convinced like all, like.

00:45:44:22 – 00:46:04:29
Half of Arabia to follow him and to go into Mecca and, like, destroy anyone in his way. And they took over Mecca. And the last thing he did, I’ll give him props was he said, no more bloodshed. We took over Mecca. Okay, that didn’t end. Eventually there was bloodshed. But at that point he’s like, there’s no there’s no more bloodshed.

00:46:04:29 – 00:46:14:22
We’re going to make this area holy ground. Yeah. And that’s when he destroys all the idols. But besides Jesus and Mary. Okay. And, then.

00:46:14:24 – 00:46:16:23
At the end, it’s.

00:46:16:25 – 00:46:36:11
Most interesting parts. So for most Muslims, they believe that Muhammad was illiterate. He couldn’t read or write. There’s an issue, though. Muhammad is about to die and no one knows who’s going to succeed him afterwards. Like who’s going to control the Muslim empire? Because now it’s not just like a town. This point. He’s like, he’s conquered all of Arabia.

00:46:36:13 – 00:46:37:20
So he goes on from Mecca.

00:46:37:23 – 00:46:57:06
Yeah. So he goes on from Mecca. He makes Mecca in that area like a holy site. So no bloodshed. Yeah, but everywhere else he conquerors takes over and they all become Muslim. But now he’s sick. He’s 63 years old. He’s dying. Some people think he’s poisoned, actually, by some, like a sex slave. And we actually don’t know what killed him.

00:46:57:06 – 00:47:21:00
But he’s dying, and the companions are around him, and, he asks Aisha what at this time, she’s 18. So the nine year old, she’s 18 now. He asks her to go and get, like, something to write on, like some ink or something, which is interesting because this is when people are asking who’s going to lead the Muslim empire after Muhammad?

00:47:21:02 – 00:47:29:15
And he says, go give me something to write on. But I thought he was illiterate. What’s he going to do? It’s going to draw something. And this is like me thinking, right when I’m reading this, I’m like.

00:47:29:17 – 00:47:31:16
What? Like I thought you couldn’t read or write. Like, why?

00:47:31:18 – 00:47:37:02
Why is he writing something for the next? Like caliph, the next emperor.

00:47:37:05 – 00:47:38:06
And the.

00:47:38:06 – 00:48:02:28
Companions actually stopped by Aisha. They say, don’t, don’t get it. Let them die or he dies. And from day one of Muhammad death, there’s been conflict about who should rule the Muslim empire. Okay, so the companions kill each other for the empire, and eventually the Sunnis win. And that’s what the Sunni and Shia split happens. And I’m so this is I summarize all Muhammad’s life.

00:48:02:28 – 00:48:08:05
Basically, there’s a lot happened in there. But the main thing that shocked me was like.

00:48:08:07 – 00:48:14:06
He fought like 80 wars. He fought like 80 battles and like six major wars and.

00:48:14:09 – 00:48:18:03
Took sex slaves and.

00:48:18:05 – 00:48:22:04
Like what? Like, how is he leading me to be holier like.

00:48:22:08 – 00:48:44:05
Which is interesting because the word holy was never used. There’s no concept of being holy. Being like, I like Theos, is becoming one with God or yeah, it’s it’s more like God gave us his commandments to control the world. And once we control the whole world, then with the the Messiah will come back, which is Jesus, their version of Jesus.

00:48:44:07 – 00:48:48:00
And I don’t know, I was just like.

00:48:48:02 – 00:49:07:21
I saw right through it at the age of 16. I was like, took me from a Monday to a Friday, only five days reading this. And I was like, yeah, this is nonsense. He obviously had either I don’t know about demons at the time, but it obviously had some like medical issue. He had like, I don’t know, he was just a master genius.

00:49:07:24 – 00:49:10:00
And this is not from God.

00:49:10:02 – 00:49:12:26
Did you try talking to your dad about it during this time? No.

00:49:12:29 – 00:49:17:18
Why? The punishment for leaving Islam as death.

00:49:17:21 – 00:49:19:12
Even in Halifax.

00:49:19:15 – 00:49:20:09
Anywhere.

00:49:20:12 – 00:49:43:25
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00:49:43:27 – 00:50:10:29
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00:50:11:02 – 00:50:31:24
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00:50:31:24 – 00:50:32:10
It’s death.

00:50:32:10 – 00:50:37:24
What do you think your dad would have done if you had have told him you were looking at leaving?

00:50:37:26 – 00:50:39:18
I would only have caused him hurt.

00:50:39:19 – 00:50:40:10
Yeah.

00:50:40:13 – 00:50:44:20
It would have never been good. Not nothing good would have came out of that conversation.

00:50:44:22 – 00:50:54:21
But I mean, even to try to refer to your own faith, did you ever go to him going, hey, I’m trying to understand this. This doesn’t make sense to me.

00:50:54:24 – 00:51:15:06
I don’t know, no, I don’t know why. There’s no reason for it. But at the time, I just thought I saw my dad like, well, he’s a good guy. He wouldn’t harm anyone. And this is giving him peace. Why should I disturb him? Like, because I just came to a conclusion. That’s not true. So I just was like, why should I take away his peace?

00:51:15:09 – 00:51:17:10
You’ve heard what Thomas Aquinas has to say, but.

00:51:17:14 – 00:51:18:12
I know, yeah, I.

00:51:18:14 – 00:51:19:15
Could, I read it anyway.

00:51:19:15 – 00:51:19:27
Go for it.

00:51:19:27 – 00:51:44:14
For those at home, here is Thomas Aquinas, a direct translation, a direct quote. He says Muhammad. So, quote, seduced the people by promises of carnal pleasure, to which the concupiscence of the flesh urges us. His teaching also contained precepts that were in conformity with his promises, and he gave free rein to carnal pleasure. In all this is is not unexpected.

00:51:44:20 – 00:52:17:19
He was obeyed by Councilman. As for proofs of the truth of his doctrine, he brought forward only such as could be grasped by the natural ability of anyone with a very modest intellect. Indeed the truths that he taught. He mingled with many fables and with doctrines of the greatest falsity. He did not bring forth any signs produced in a supernatural way, which alone fittingly gives witness to divine inspiration for a visible action that can be only divine, reveals an invisibly inspired teacher of truth.

00:52:17:19 – 00:52:28:11
On the contrary, Mohammed said that he was sent in the power of his arms, which are science, not lacking even to robbers and tyrants.

00:52:28:14 – 00:52:31:22
They were he. I’ve read what Thomas Aquinas has to say.

00:52:31:22 – 00:52:42:27
So after reading that, that sounds like what you’ve just said to me about your revelation during that one week of reading the, hadith and other accounts of Muhammad’s life. That’s kind of what you’ve come to.

00:52:42:27 – 00:52:43:24
I think my.

00:52:43:26 – 00:52:50:15
Slavery wasn’t here. They didn’t talk about that. Well, kind of he did. Talking about the concupiscence of the flesh. Yeah.

00:52:50:18 – 00:53:05:04
I think Muhammad was probably the most influential man minus Christ, to ever walk the earth. And not in a good way. Yeah. And. I just left Islam after reading that.

00:53:05:04 – 00:53:10:24
How did you. What? So. Yeah. Tell me how that happened. Did you make a decision gradually? Was it?

00:53:10:26 – 00:53:32:00
I remember exactly what happened there. I was with my friend, the atheist, and his girlfriend at the time. They were sitting in a park and it was beautiful. Like Nova Scotia in the summer is amazing. So we’re sitting there and we’re just looking at the sea or at the ocean, and I was having a good time. And I remember we’re talking about this like all the issues of reading.

00:53:32:03 – 00:53:54:26
And I say, I think I believe in Islam because it gives me comfort. And as soon as I said that, I left Islam because I couldn’t care less about comfort, I cared about the truth. And I’ve always told people I’ve had 16 like, who cares if you’re comfortable? Like what matters is what’s reality.

00:53:54:28 – 00:53:55:05
And I.

00:53:55:05 – 00:54:03:20
Just learned that probably from growing up with disability and like being in hospitals that you don’t have to be comfortable. You have to know the truth. Every situation.

00:54:03:22 – 00:54:11:24
I want to get back to Islam and you’re leaving it. But I do want to ask you about your disability because you referenced it but didn’t explain exactly what was going on.

00:54:11:27 – 00:54:27:01
So I’m just I have glaucoma, so I was born with it and, some blood in my left eye. And, I got pretty good vision of my right eye. Okay, but I can’t drive. Right. Okay. Not so. Yeah. All right. So I just live with that. I take medicine for it to keep the eye pressure is good and.

00:54:27:03 – 00:54:42:06
Okay. It’s been a part of my life forever. So. Yeah, it’s funny, like some people, when they see me, they kind of pity it. And they’re like, oh, like, maybe he needs help seeing something and then that’s fine if I do. But when something is a part of your life forever, you don’t really think of it. Yeah.

00:54:42:10 – 00:54:42:18
Yeah.

00:54:42:19 – 00:54:45:08
It’s it is is a problem. Yeah, yeah. Fair enough.

00:54:45:10 – 00:54:54:00
Okay. So at that point, did you think God doesn’t exist? Atheism is the way for me, given that your friend was atheist.

00:54:54:02 – 00:55:07:19
So I left the part out. We backtrack around four years, four years, two years. Sorry. Back in Egypt, I had an Orthodox friend. Right? Coptic Orthodox?

00:55:07:23 – 00:55:08:22
Yeah.

00:55:08:24 – 00:55:11:22
And every like, like P.

00:55:11:22 – 00:55:19:04
Class, we were super lazy. We didn’t want to like, run ten miles a day just because, like, I have people from the American army train us.

00:55:19:06 – 00:55:24:27
To like, I was like the DP class. And I’m like, the guy was like, you know what a mile is?

00:55:24:27 – 00:55:27:19
And we’re like, yeah. And you’re like, run five of them right now.

00:55:27:19 – 00:55:34:15
And I’m like, right? It’s like 40°C. Yeah, look, can we not do this? Like so we would just like.

00:55:34:15 – 00:56:07:04
Sneak in the back and walk and just talk about stuff. Yeah. And he I have to get great. Actually, I’m not going to credit him because he’s still in Egypt, so I’m going to not say his name, but if it wasn’t for him, I would never go on this journey. He, was with me in PE class, the whole, like, grade eight, in grade seven and a little bit of grade nine, and we would talk for hours about Christianity, Islam, politics, whatever the heck’s going on.

00:56:07:06 – 00:56:10:27
And we thought we knew everything. We’re like 14 years old. We didn’t know anything.

00:56:11:02 – 00:56:12:21
But we thought we were geniuses.

00:56:12:21 – 00:56:30:15
Or like, yeah, we go like, this is the right way to do life or whatever. And every one of us would share his faith with me and he would tell me stuff. But the Trinity, by God, his love. So like, he’s this relational being, so he has to love someone.

00:56:30:18 – 00:56:32:12
Or something like, oh, like what?

00:56:32:15 – 00:56:44:17
What bitter prophet is there then God himself. And I’m like, what? What do you mean? What bitter prophet is hurting God himself? It’s like, that makes no sense to me. At one time he said something like.

00:56:44:20 – 00:56:46:06
Well, would it be better? Like, let’s see, you have.

00:56:46:06 – 00:56:56:18
Like a bunch of ants and you want to lead them somewhere. Would it be better to just like, keep sending out our answer them? Are you become an ant talk to them in their language at.

00:56:56:21 – 00:57:05:06
And I was like, that’s a really cool analogy. But like, I guess if you were to become an introvert. Yeah. And so then one day.

00:57:05:06 – 00:57:10:26
He, he asked us, he said, I want you to go in your room and pray to God and ask him who he is.

00:57:10:26 – 00:57:12:01
This is your friend.

00:57:12:07 – 00:57:34:08
Yeah, yeah. And he’s a Coptic. Yeah. So I go to my room that night and I say simple. I say a simple prayer. I say, God, if you’re Allah, I want to have a dream of Mecca. I don’t know why I said this, I just did. If you’re the God of the Christians, I want to see Jesus on the cross.

00:57:34:10 – 00:58:01:17
And I went to bed and I have this dream. And in the dream there’s this huge crowd and I’m walking through the crowd like, little by little, getting closer to the middle. And I see these people crying. Some are laughing and I look up and I see three people on crosses. And at the time, I didn’t know that two other people were dying.

00:58:01:17 – 00:58:18:08
Was Jesus. No one ever told me about the thieves on the cross. I look at Jesus and he looks at me and his face is super bloody. I’m getting goosebumps just talking about this like I remember it like it was yesterday.

00:58:18:10 – 00:58:20:15
And I he he I just looked.

00:58:20:15 – 00:58:41:20
At him and he looked at me and that was it. The dream ended and I woke up at 3 a.m. and I convinced myself I hallucinated and I, I don’t want anything to do with that, you know, I, I said, hey, you give me a dream, but I might convince myself about the dream. You know, I just had to make stuff up that, like.

00:58:41:22 – 00:59:09:16
But the dream never left me. So all this time, like, through the whole story, I was just saying about, like, going in Egypt as a muslim, then going back to Halifax and telling people about Muhammad’s life and becoming, like, not religious. I still remember this dream. This is still in the back of my mind. And so when I leave Islam, for some reason, I just ignored any concept of becoming a Christian.

00:59:09:18 – 00:59:24:16
But I told people about this dream and they can vouch for this. Like people in my life before I became a Christian, I’d be like, hey, do you think, like, if there was a God who speaks to you in a dream and maybe it’s like, I think you’re smoking too much?

00:59:24:16 – 00:59:44:25
No, no. Cool, cool. Yeah, I just wonder. Yeah, I just went and I told my, my atheist friend like, yeah, like I, I had this dream of Jesus on the cross. Like when I was a kid, like, do you think it means anything? And he’s like, means you had the flu. I don’t know, like, you just come up with anything and like, yeah, you’re probably right.

00:59:44:28 – 00:59:47:19
And I just didn’t think about it at all.

00:59:47:19 – 00:59:55:13
Like some something just made me not want to think about Christianity. So I decided to just become this nihilistic, quote unquote atheist.

00:59:55:15 – 00:59:57:04
Is this after your leaving?

00:59:57:04 – 00:59:58:15
After I left Islam. Okay.

00:59:58:21 – 01:00:00:10
And I think for a good.

00:00:00:10 – 01:00:10:15
Year and a half or maybe two years, I generally didn’t believe there was a God. Yeah, I generally like I hear Christians say, I think most atheists actually believe there’s a God, but they don’t.

00:00:10:15 – 01:00:11:02
Right now.

00:00:11:02 – 01:00:27:26
I want to say it. Yeah, that wasn’t me. I generally didn’t believe there was a God. I was like, maybe the universe is an endless thing. Maybe it creates itself back and forth like a the boomerang. I don’t I didn’t know the answers and I started not to care anymore. Until one day I.

00:00:27:26 – 01:00:31:09
Was doing drugs and.

00:00:31:11 – 01:01:01:10
I lost, a few friends. And it wasn’t just any drugs. It was just like, regular normal, like weed and alcohol, actually. But this kind of shows you that we had an alcohol can do huge damage. I went into psychosis and they had to call the hospital, and they put me in this, was an ambulance. I don’t remember any of it, but I think either was an ambulance or my brother drove me to the hospital and all I remember is, was like, are all they said that happened?

00:01:01:10 – 01:01:25:29
Is that I was, like, foaming from the mouth or something, or I was unconscious. But the whole time I was saying a lot and God save me. That’s why I said. And then I woke up at home and my family sat me down and like this really in, like, you almost died yesterday. What do you mean, like?

00:01:26:02 – 01:01:56:25
Because in my mind, nothing happened. I don’t remember any of it. Yeah. And they’re like, this is what happened. And my friend, he say the video of like for ten seconds just to show me afterwards. Oh, and eventually deleted afterward. It seems like we’re not. Yeah. Like, just so you know. And that never happened again. But I think it was because I was so distraught about there being no God, and it was showing the hole in my heart with as much marijuana and alcohol and whatever the heck I get my hands on, that it was just killing me on the inside.

00:01:56:28 – 01:01:59:09
I was dying on the inside.

00:01:59:12 – 01:02:04:07
How was your mom and dad? Surely by now they are aware that you’ve left Islam?

00:02:04:07 – 01:02:06:28
No, my dad wasn’t.

00:02:07:00 – 01:02:11:18
He wasn’t? No. Did he just think you were a bad Muslim? When were you going to?

00:02:11:18 – 01:02:20:15
My dad has a lot of leeway. Like, again, I said, because I was visually impaired. Like, he’s like, God would just be more lenient on me. There’s this. It’s a we.

00:02:20:15 – 01:02:22:25
Weren’t going to the mosque with him. It was okay.

00:02:23:02 – 01:02:23:23
If it was okay.

00:02:23:23 – 01:02:33:22
He never actually forced us. No, he the the Islam I grew up with was very like soul. A few days it was like, if you believe it’s good, that’ll do. Yeah. So you think Muhammad the Prophet’s epic?

00:02:33:22 – 01:02:40:15
Like here you go. So he was like, as long as they believe it’s good. So okay, that happened.

00:02:40:15 – 01:03:01:14
And I made a pact with God. The God I didn’t believe in. I think God, if you don’t fix my life within like 90 days, I’m going to, like, add my life. That’s why I said I don’t want to live anymore. And I made this pact with this being they don’t even think exists. Yeah.

00:03:01:16 – 01:03:04:11
And then I go to university and.

00:03:04:14 – 01:03:13:17
The first week of university, I meet this guy. His name is Michael Sloan. Okay, it’s funny enough, his conversion happened by watching your videos.

00:03:13:24 – 01:03:15:00
Really? Yeah.

00:03:15:02 – 01:03:16:19
And he he’s, How did.

00:03:16:19 – 01:03:17:24
That happen?

00:03:17:27 – 01:03:21:00
I actually don’t know. He never told me the full story, but he told me that.

00:03:21:00 – 01:03:28:21
Like, he was. I watched this guy named, like, mad frat. He is really cool. I grew up Catholic, but he really made me, like, a follower of Jesus. And I’m like, that’s awesome.

00:03:28:22 – 01:03:33:21
And like, leave me alone. Like, I was like, I was like, that’s ever. Yeah.

00:03:33:23 – 01:03:35:25
I’m really happy for you and Matt, friend.

00:03:35:29 – 01:03:41:11
Yeah, I know that is whatever. And he, he was a Catholic.

00:03:41:17 – 01:03:43:16
Missionary, actually, on the university with.

00:03:43:16 – 01:03:45:27
The CCU. Yeah. Catholic missionary. Praise God.

00:03:45:27 – 01:03:47:20
Yeah. They do amazing work. They do.

00:03:47:22 – 01:03:51:03
And he was handing out.

00:03:51:03 – 01:04:05:07
These, like, things to sign or whatever. So I go up to him, I put my name, I put my phone number, and I forget about it completely. Yeah. I go home at 10 p.m. and now I have to go to bed. I think I’m like hitting my vape or something.

00:04:05:10 – 01:04:08:26
And all I see, it’s like, hi, this is Michael from.

00:04:08:26 – 01:04:17:00
Catholic Christian Outreach. Would you like to meet up tomorrow and talk about, I don’t know, like what a faith study is, which is the program to do.

00:04:17:03 – 01:04:18:10
And I was like.

00:04:18:12 – 01:04:22:06
No, I don’t I really don’t want to meet up. I’m very happy. He said, well.

00:04:22:06 – 01:04:32:19
We got free, like, you know, pizza and stuff. But I was like, hey man. Yeah, that’s that’s big. I’ll come study. Yeah, I have faith. So I go in to this.

00:04:32:21 – 01:04:54:00
Chapel in the University and all I see when I walk in and I’m in shock. Right. Because I don’t really know Christian Christians. I know Christians that are like, yeah, I thought Christianity was dead. Like, it’s dead religion. People go to church like, on, Easter because they have eggs or something. I don’t know, like if something’s going on.

00:04:54:02 – 01:05:09:00
But I walk into the chaplaincy area and the first thing I see is a nun praying the rosary. I look to my right. There’s this man like, he’s like sitting like this and like in prayer. And he’s just like, he looks up, he does a sign of a cross. He is like.

00:05:09:02 – 01:05:25:11
Quite a god. Like guys. One of my best friends. Not really. Yeah. And then I looked to my left, and the people, like reading the Bible says highlighters. I’m like, where the heck am I? Like, what is this? And I go into this little room where I meet Michael, and it’s a little like.

00:05:25:11 – 01:05:37:14
Chapel area with like the crucifix and the altar, and there’s some chairs there. And I was like, okay, interesting. I look in the window and there’s this guy with the collar thing, and I’m like.

00:05:37:16 – 01:05:39:25
Oh, that’s, like a reverend.

00:05:39:26 – 01:05:40:24
One of those priest.

00:05:40:28 – 01:05:46:04
Yeah, that’s I, I’ve seen those in the movies, like. And he, I think you know him.

00:05:46:04 – 01:05:48:18
At this father Craig Cameron, he’s. Yeah.

00:05:48:18 – 01:05:52:27
Oh, so he’s sitting there and he’s working on his computer. Wow. I meet with.

00:05:52:27 – 01:06:15:16
Michael, and we start talking, and, start telling me about this faith study thing. And the reason why I agreed to do it. Yeah, was because I want to convince everyone in this chaplaincy area that there was no God. Okay, so I walked in there every single day for the first semester of university and tried to convince them.

00:06:15:16 – 01:06:23:15
And I failed the first semester. University. I didn’t go to class. I went from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m., just went there and argue with them every day.

00:06:23:18 – 01:06:26:23
And did you get any converts?

00:06:26:25 – 01:06:31:14
Nope. Not one. Not one. First, I became an atheist. But I’ll tell you one thing. They they.

00:06:31:15 – 01:06:32:17
Were starting to really.

00:06:32:17 – 01:06:49:09
Get to me because they were very nice. Even though I was an asshole to them. I was like, yeah, you guys are really weird. You think I God’s going to save you now? Like if you’re on a plane and they’re like, yeah, he know. I’m like, oh really? Okay. Unironically, yes, yes. It’s like I’m going to heaven because I’m like, okay, that’s I think.

00:06:49:12 – 01:06:59:12
I just want to I just want to pause right here and say thank you to CC0. To the good Andre and his bride and the excellent work they’re doing up in Canada.

00:06:59:12 – 01:07:00:05
They do it. I mean.

00:07:00:06 – 01:07:06:11
It’s because of the ministry that they’re engaged in that you came to the faith, really is it.

00:07:06:11 – 01:07:06:25
Is.

00:07:06:25 – 01:07:08:12
Yeah, yeah. Glory to Jesus Christ.

00:07:08:12 – 01:07:38:10
I guess it wasn’t for them. I would never have met. Yeah. And he Catholics or any Christians in general. And. Yeah. So I come back every day, I talk to them, I discuss with them. Well like argue actually I just argue every day with them. And then one day in one of the faith, I guess. Lesson to it’s the story of the prodigal son and Michael’s reading it from the Gospel of Luke about how the son comes back and the father forgive him no matter what.

00:07:38:11 – 01:07:54:05
Yeah. And I’m sitting there and I’m like, wait, you mean like, what kind of punishment? And I’m like, no, but but they took half his inheritance. Like, I don’t know, man, if I didn’t have a son. But if my brother took all my money and then came back saying, hey, let’s be friends.

00:07:54:08 – 01:07:58:19
I think, I think I’d have a few words, like to tell him, you know, and he’s like, no, but God.

00:07:58:19 – 01:08:07:06
Loves us like we every day we we wrong him. But if we come back to him, he can save us. And it baffled me so much.

00:08:07:12 – 01:08:27:26
It’s so funny you say that. Forgive me for interjecting. And perhaps you’ve already heard me talk about this with Jacob mom on the show. And Jacob will forgive me if I’m mistaking some of these elements of the story. But Jacob’s father was Muslim. Yes. And converted on his deathbed. And I believe on his deathbed was read The Prodigal Son for the first time.

00:08:28:02 – 01:08:36:25
And just like you shocked, he thought he misunderstood something because he was sure that the point of the story was that the father was going to beat him.

00:08:36:27 – 01:08:43:23
I thought I at least pay the money back like anything. Like, yeah, but the point, the story was like total forgiveness.

00:08:43:23 – 01:08:53:03
No matter what. And I was like, so guys, I cannot do anything. He’s not gonna play total forgiveness. But they give me like ten bucks.

00:08:53:03 – 01:08:55:13
Nothing like.

00:08:55:15 – 01:09:02:24
And I started crying. I started bawling my eyes out in this faith study, which is awkward for Michael because it’s a one on one faith.

00:09:02:27 – 01:09:04:12
It’s just you and another dude.

00:09:04:14 – 01:09:09:28
Yeah, he’s sitting there and he’s like, yes, they’re there. Like, Isaac doesn’t know what to do.

00:09:10:00 – 01:09:11:13
Would you like a Kleenex?

00:09:11:15 – 01:09:16:04
Yeah, exactly. And I just, I the, the.

00:09:16:04 – 01:09:20:18
Whole concept baffled me because my entire life I thought God was.

00:09:20:18 – 01:09:26:27
Like, maybe I if I just do good works or if I just like, I don’t know.

00:09:27:00 – 01:10:01:07
Say like, good morning, Jesus or Allah or whatever, and I’ll get to heaven or something. I gotta do something. Yeah, right. There’s some exchange that has to occur, but this deity didn’t want anything from me. And I stuck with me. I still thought it was nonsense, but it stuck with me. Was cool story. Eventually I leave and I like, I leave the room, I sit down and the Christians are chatting or whatever, and then Michael comes back out and he’s like, hey, we’re going to, Prince Edward Island, which is the next province over from Nova Scotia.

00:10:01:09 – 01:10:09:05
We’re going there for like, this, like cottage like, Thanksgiving thing. If you want to come, you know, it’s up to you. And I was like.

00:10:09:08 – 01:10:09:19
At this point.

00:10:09:19 – 01:10:11:15
I made no friends university because I spent the.

00:10:11:15 – 01:10:18:24
Entire day arguing with Christians. And I was like. And in a way, they kind of became my friends. Like we were weren’t just arguing anymore.

00:10:18:24 – 01:10:24:03
We were arguing and then like, hey, let’s get dinner and talk about it more, you know? So we’re getting really close.

00:10:24:05 – 01:10:25:25
And I was like, man, I’ve been.

00:10:25:25 – 01:10:31:23
Calling him idiots this whole time. And they just invited me to go to like on a vacation.

00:10:31:25 – 01:10:37:12
For like for free. I’m like, yeah, sure, I’ll do it. And and I was a complete.

00:10:37:12 – 01:10:48:27
Idiot the whole trip up to P.E.I., I was like, there, listen to this pastor talk about Moses, explain the Red sea. And I was just sitting there giggling like, hahaha, you guys really believe Moses existed? I don’t know, something stupid. Yeah.

00:10:49:00 – 01:10:54:02
And, we get there, we get to the cottage and there’s.

00:10:54:02 – 01:10:59:05
15 of us, and I’m the only non-Christian. I’m starting to realize this as if like, there’s like a it’s.

00:10:59:05 – 01:11:00:02
A it’s a trap.

00:11:00:02 – 01:11:08:28
Yeah. It’s some type of trap going on. So we get to the cottage and I realized the Saturday, tomorrow. Sunday.

00:11:09:02 – 01:11:10:00

00:11:10:02 – 01:11:27:27
And they’re all talking about, mass and like, what? Are we going to mass tomorrow? I’m like, oh, shit, I got to go to mass. No, I’m gonna stay here. I thought about it, like outside my window, and the nearest house is like 500km away. And I’m like, I’m not going to get murdered here. So I’m going to go.

00:11:27:27 – 01:11:30:11
With them to mass. So I dress.

00:11:30:11 – 01:11:38:10
Up in a nice little shirt, and I go to mass last night and, man, mass is weird from a non someone who did not grow up.

00:11:38:10 – 01:11:42:21
What was that like? And don’t be, polite. Just exactly what did the.

00:11:42:21 – 01:11:54:18
Most cultish thing I’ve ever seen in my entire life? Yeah, I, I’ve, I was never going to come back because I had no concept of what Christians do. Like, all I know was like a guy sits there and talks. That’s what I thought. It’s like a sermon.

00:11:54:18 – 01:11:55:18
Yeah.

00:11:55:21 – 01:12:00:03
Everyone’s going up and down at the same time. They’re going up for some bread and then.

00:12:00:03 – 01:12:05:12
But I can’t get it on top of the cup. And then like, who’s this lamb you’re talking about?

00:12:05:14 – 01:12:07:01
They gave me pizza. Why can’t I have the bread?

00:12:07:01 – 01:12:12:28
Yeah. It’s so weird. And the whole thing is just like. And then this other guy made him weirder.

00:12:13:02 – 01:12:17:17
Like, you know, you say like, peace and Christ. He turns to me and he says.

00:12:17:17 – 01:12:18:16
He he looks at me straight.

00:12:18:16 – 01:12:25:11
In the eyes, and he says, peace of our Lord God and Savior, Jesus Christ, the Son of God. So my dad like a whole sentence. Yeah.

00:12:25:13 – 01:12:29:06
I’m like, that’s epic. That’s all. Thanks so much, man, I appreciate it.

00:12:29:08 – 01:12:30:26
I’m gonna sit down and cheers.

00:12:30:28 – 01:12:36:04
Yeah. That’s you. And then and then they they’re like, yeah, you can go up for a blessing.

00:12:36:04 – 01:12:45:12
And I’m like, I don’t think no, I’m good. I’m going to in the corner. And I remember the sermon and the sermon was

00:12:45:15 – 01:12:53:00
Directed to every question I asked him. And I was like, man, did they talk to the priest? Like, they must.

00:12:53:00 – 01:13:13:19
Have asked him. They must. I called him up like, hey, this atheist guy keeps asking us these questions. He must like he must know. But obviously, like, this is God speaking through the priest. And then the mass ends and this random woman comes up to us and she’s like, I want to invite all 15 of you guys to my house for a Thanksgiving dinner.

00:13:13:22 – 01:13:17:14
I just felt called by the Holy Spirit who I’m like, I don’t know who the heck that guy is.

00:13:17:14 – 01:13:25:20
But so sure, like, sure. Yeah, I love him too. And my first thought was, again, this.

00:13:25:20 – 01:13:31:20
Is how you get murdered in movies. Like we’re going to this random person’s house for Thanksgiving dinner. Like, who are we giving thanks to the devil?

00:13:31:20 – 01:13:32:26
Like, I don’t want to know, like.

00:13:32:29 – 01:13:53:08
And but they’re all like, because they’re Christians and they’re all happy go lucky. They’re like, yeah, of course we love to go. And I’m just like, okay, I guess I’m going with them to Thanksgiving dinner. And it was so weird. We’re driving to this woman’s house in the middle of nowhere and like, the sun is shining on our car and it’s like following us.

00:13:53:08 – 01:13:55:05
It’s it’s so strange.

00:13:55:07 – 01:13:55:26
And but by the time.

00:13:55:26 – 01:14:04:25
I get to, like, the woman’s house, the sun shines on her house. And the whole, the whole rest of the sky is like cloudy. And everyone’s like, oh, it’s a miracle. And I’m like, oh my gosh.

00:14:04:27 – 01:14:11:26
There. Like, guys, come on, come on. Your bar miracles are solid. Yes. And we go in and they, they, they do.

00:14:11:26 – 01:14:17:24
This whole prayer thing before the dinner. And it’s the first time I’ve really seen someone actually pray.

00:14:17:27 – 01:14:19:19
Like an Islam.

00:14:19:19 – 01:14:22:27
Like it kind of just like there’s, like, recited prayers. Yeah.

00:14:23:00 – 01:14:25:05
But they’re like talking to Jesus.

00:14:25:05 – 01:14:40:00
As if, like, he’s in the room with them. Like, Jesus. You want to thank you for our cousin who was healed yesterday. But I’m like cancer. I don’t mind much later. Is he here? Like I’m not like, who are you talking to? And then they would go around the room, be like, yeah, Jesus, this semester is really hard.

00:14:40:00 – 01:14:43:20
But thank you so much for helping me get through with my grades.

00:14:43:23 – 01:14:52:13
And then it got to me and I was like, Amen. That’s all I said was like, Amen. And then they’re like, they start laughing.

00:14:52:13 – 01:14:53:04
That’s a Christian.

00:14:53:04 – 01:15:00:26
Word. Yeah, I heard that in the movie. Same one with the Reverend. That’s like, but yeah. And then they had their whole grace thing.

00:15:00:28 – 01:15:04:08
That seemed kind of culty too, because they’re all saying the same words at the same time.

00:15:04:10 – 01:15:07:06
And it ends.

00:15:07:06 – 01:15:27:18
We have a good dinner. Eventually we sit in this living room area and it’s like, there’s probably 25 of us in this house, and it’s not a huge house, so it’s very crowded. So some of us are sitting on the floor and some of us doing couches and I think 3 or 4 of us are playing guitar, doing praise and worship.

00:15:27:20 – 01:15:54:23
And this is the moment really hit me like I’m looking up and they’re playing the song 10,000 reasons. And the words bless the Lord all my soul worship is holy name. Keep ringing in my ears. Bless the Lord, bless the Lord, bless the Lord. I look around the room. Everyone’s smiling. They’re all in this trance praising God. I, I’m just like.

00:15:54:29 – 01:16:22:05
There’s only two options. They’re all on drugs. With or not. I’ve been with them for like, three days now. Or. There’s something to this. Yeah. So I whisper to myself the first real prayer of my life. I said, Jesus, if you’re real, show me right now. And as soon as I said that, I became Christian, as soon as I said that I didn’t know.

00:16:22:05 – 01:16:36:13
I didn’t know at the time what it was. But the Holy Spirit entered my body in a way that just shocked me. I had goosebumps and that hold I was showing up as drugs to filled up. It was. It was whole.

00:16:36:16 – 01:16:36:27
I wasn’t.

00:16:36:27 – 01:16:57:16
Missing anything. And then I started crying and then the music kind of slowing down. People are looking around like, what’s going on? And I had to leave the house. Then this woman follows me and she’s like, are you okay? And I look at her tears in my eyes and I’m like, I think Jesus is real. And she’s like, you know what I mean?

00:16:57:16 – 01:16:58:01
So like.

00:16:58:01 – 01:17:03:04
No, but he’s real. And I look up to the sky, the.

00:17:03:04 – 01:17:04:00
Moon shining, and.

00:17:04:00 – 01:17:23:15
I this is really what I say. Hey, dude, I don’t know what happened, but that was cool. We’ll talk about this later, but I want to go back. They’re worried about me. I love you, Jesus. That was my first. And walk back again. And I was looking at me and I’m still crying.

00:17:23:18 – 01:17:27:12
And this woman, the woman who invited us to the house, she gets us like.

00:17:27:15 – 01:17:29:07
Like holy oil.

00:17:29:10 – 01:17:35:15
She starts marking me, actually, the wounds of Christ on your on your head, on your arms.

00:17:35:17 – 01:17:40:04
And every till today I feel like my feet and my.

00:17:40:04 – 01:17:49:15
Arms in my head. And those marks are different. Like something about it. Maybe it’s a placebo, maybe it’s not true, but it feels different to me.

00:17:49:17 – 01:17:50:18
Those parts of your body.

00:17:50:18 – 01:17:52:10
So yeah, like those those marks.

00:17:52:10 – 01:18:04:09
Where sheep marked the oil are different. And then I look around the room and everything is beautiful.

00:18:04:11 – 01:18:28:24
I don’t want to die anymore. I see this couch. I see the fabric in the couch. It’s the most beautiful couch I’ve ever seen in my life. And there’s like a dog’s piss stain on it. But it’s the most beautiful couch I’ve ever seen. A beautiful. Yeah, it’s like, what if this is a God created and I look out a room?

00:18:28:24 – 01:18:35:11
The most beautiful people I’ve ever seen in my life. And it was a beauty I’ve never even thought about before. It wasn’t like when you see, like.

00:18:35:12 – 01:18:39:08
A woman who has, like, a beautiful figure. Yeah, or like a beautiful sun, or.

00:18:39:09 – 01:18:49:09
It was. It was like a beautiful soul. This individual’s were beautiful because they were made in this image of this being. Who is God. And I looked at.

00:18:49:09 – 01:19:02:09
My watch and it was October 7th, 2018 at 9 p.m., okay. And I gave my life to Christ that time. And I never looked back on the.

00:19:02:09 – 01:19:04:12
Feast of Our Lady of the Holy Rosary.

00:19:04:15 – 01:19:06:00
I didn’t even know that’s what it was.

00:19:06:02 – 01:19:09:07
But glory to God. Like I just.

00:19:09:09 – 01:19:19:18
I knew what it was, and I knew I knew who he was. I knew Jesus was God. I knew he died for me. And I knew what I had to do is give my life to him.

00:19:19:21 – 01:19:22:25
I don’t know any theology at the time. I don’t know anything.

00:19:22:25 – 01:19:37:08
About Catholic, Protestant, or I don’t know nothing. Yeah. All I know is Jesus. Is he saved me. It’s through him that I’m saved. And now the next day, we’re going back to Halifax. And they’re doing the praise and worship, and I’m singing with them.

00:19:37:08 – 01:19:41:19
I turn it off. Yeah, I’m going crazy. And then they drive me.

00:19:41:19 – 01:19:55:12
So my house is on like a big hill. So they put me at the end of the hill. And then I get out of the car and I’m walking up the hill and apparently my aunt’s driving down. I even notice her. I’m so still in a daze from everything. And she calls me and she’s like, oh, I see you walking up to the house.

00:19:55:12 – 01:19:59:10
So you meet a lady. I was like, what do you mean? It’s like, you look like you’ve.

00:19:59:10 – 01:20:04:10
Won the lottery. And I’m like, oh, I don’t know, like, I feel great. And I walk into.

00:20:04:13 – 01:20:12:07
The house and my mom’s there and I’m like, hey mom, how’s it going? She’s like, why are you smiling so much? I was like.

00:20:12:09 – 01:20:20:03
I’ll tell you later. Just it’s going great. It’s going great, mom. And then I went to my room and I think for like the next like two hours, I.

00:20:20:03 – 01:20:38:00
Cried my eyes out and a good cry. Like a beautiful cry like. Yeah, how beautiful God is that? He died for me. Like I did what God did for me. God does like the cross. The cross kept coming to me. And then the next day I went back to university and I was the one preaching in the chaplaincy.

00:20:38:00 – 01:20:52:09
So there you go. So then I just sign up for our CIA. And by April 20th, 2019 Easter Vigil, I got baptized. First communion and confirmation.

00:20:52:12 – 01:21:06:27
Glory to Jesus Christ. Yeah. Did you have any obstacles to overcome? I mean, did you did you have any good reasons? Do you think to be an atheist, it had to be worked out or.

00:21:07:00 – 01:21:11:10
The funny thing is, no. Once that night happened, I didn’t.

00:21:11:12 – 01:21:17:01
But what were your reasons prior to that? Just that religion was stupid or that life seemed senseless?

00:21:17:03 – 01:21:18:07
No evidence.

00:21:18:09 – 01:21:25:25
There was no evidence for Christianity. Did you have any evidence that God didn’t exist? That you would present? No.

00:21:25:26 – 01:21:28:20
It was more just like.

00:21:28:23 – 01:21:30:17
It was wish fulfillment. Yeah.

00:21:30:19 – 01:21:31:15
Just like it was like.

00:21:31:23 – 01:21:37:17
Telling themselves a story that made life seem more bearable, that kind of thing. And you weren’t going to be naive like them.

00:21:37:17 – 01:21:59:10
Yeah, exactly. I was too good for that. Yeah. And I just didn’t see the purpose for it. I thought it was like, it’s better to be depressed and know the truth and live a lie and be happy. So yeah, it didn’t really, I don’t know, like something just changed it. Like the way I thought, like overnight it was really like.

00:21:59:10 – 01:22:15:13
No, I mean, this road moment, I had the same experience. And it’s funny, as you said, that I remembered I haven’t thought of this in a long time, but when I came home after my conversion to Christ, a lot of people say the same thing to me as they did to you. And I’m just now remembering this. People say, you bloody won the lottery.

00:22:15:20 – 01:22:20:19
Yeah. And it’s it’s it’s a shame. Maybe the people don’t say that to me as often.

00:22:20:21 – 01:22:21:17
Like it’s the.

00:22:21:17 – 01:22:28:18
Time. I mean, I was I felt like my heart was like a balloon and it was just, it was about to burst with joy. I couldn’t contain it.

00:22:28:20 – 01:22:29:20
But I feel like even.

00:22:29:20 – 01:22:44:18
When we’re down in our faith, life like or desolation is still different. Yeah. It’s like I’m I’m going through this depressing season, but I know there’s something different, like marked in me, you know, than before that conversion. All right.

00:22:44:18 – 01:22:47:15
So your parents clearly know you’re a Christian now.

00:22:47:18 – 01:22:56:12
No, let’s stop it. No, I go, my mom finds. Oh, no, I mean now. Oh, now. Yeah. As of this. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. They didn’t 100%.

00:22:56:12 – 01:22:59:05
Going to say because by the time this comes out, you better find somewhere to hide.

00:22:59:07 – 01:23:03:15
Guess I’m screwed. But no, like they know now everyone knows.

00:23:03:18 – 01:23:04:21

00:23:04:24 – 01:23:08:06
Yeah, but so my mom finds out first.

00:23:08:09 – 01:23:09:12
How did she find out?

00:23:09:14 – 01:23:09:27
And it’s the.

00:23:09:27 – 01:23:16:19
Funniest thing ever. So I’m wearing this huge, like, parka coat. It’s like the middle of winter Canada. And I have my rosary, which.

00:23:16:19 – 01:23:21:09
I don’t even know how to use. I was like, oh, cool. I guess the cross. And I just put in my.

00:23:21:11 – 01:23:24:26
I put it in my parka and it’s like a button and a zipper.

00:23:25:00 – 01:23:29:11
So I zipper it in and I put the button on so it can’t go anywhere.

00:23:29:13 – 01:23:35:06
I walk in the door. The first thing that happens, it falls and the cross is facing her.

00:23:35:08 – 01:23:37:24
It’s like I was like, what? How did that happen?

00:23:37:26 – 01:23:41:28
And she looks I me, she’s the first thing she says. Please, no.

00:23:42:00 – 01:23:50:02
And I was like, mom, I just sit down. I could explain I was like a mom to sit down and see. It’s like she’s she starts bawling. She’s like, please, please.

00:23:50:02 – 01:23:54:21
Like religion ruins families. This is like. And I’m like, mom, I can’t do it.

00:23:54:23 – 01:23:56:20
And she practically.

00:23:56:24 – 01:24:06:12
Begged me to deny Jesus daily. And as much as my heart wanted to do it, I couldn’t do it because I knew it was true. I know, Jesus.

00:24:06:15 – 01:24:08:04
You love your mom. You don’t want to see her.

00:24:08:04 – 01:24:29:15
I can’t see it yet. And just because she grew up in the the church was witnessed religion. There was so much pain around that area. Yeah, she didn’t know. Yeah. She was afraid for me. She was really afraid. I joined a cult. Then my brother found out the second person I texted my brother because he was living.

00:24:29:15 – 01:24:34:09
And so did your mom. Say, did your mom tell you that she would or would not tell your father?

00:24:34:11 – 01:24:52:28
He said, well, she said, whatever you do, do not tell Baba. Which is that in Arabic they don’t tell Baba. And. I told her, like I won’t tell them right now because I there’s I have to sit him down like that’s not a thing. I can just like slide in the conversation like beat you.

00:24:53:01 – 01:24:59:24
Yeah. By the way, I’m going to church. Goodbye. But yeah, I tell my brother to second person over text and.

00:24:59:24 – 01:25:03:08
I don’t know how I call him. It almost like because he’s in Toronto, right?

00:25:03:08 – 01:25:05:07
And I’m like.

00:25:05:12 – 01:25:23:24
Okay, hey, her name is Omar. And I was like, hey, Omar, just want you to know that I love you very much. So does God. Jesus Christ is Lord. I give in my life to him. The Holy Spirit is real. I know it’s true. And I love you very much. I love you, but it’s a minor.

00:25:23:25 – 01:25:25:03
And then we you just sitting with.

00:25:25:03 – 01:25:31:09
I sent it, I went to bed, turn the phone off. I went to bed, okay. Woke up the next morning and the text said.

00:25:31:12 – 01:25:39:03
Oh no problem. And it will do everyone. Oh, okay. Two hours later, he calls me. He’s like, I just read it, actually.

00:25:39:06 – 01:25:44:27
It’s like. It’s like I was like, what the. What happened? Like, are you okay? And then I’m like, yeah, I’m fine. It’s like, it’s real.

00:25:44:27 – 01:25:49:04
I think you gotta you have to be in a hospital. Like you have to go to hospital.

00:25:49:06 – 01:26:09:18
Like, this is not normal. People don’t convert to Christianity. People leave Christianity or like the Christianity, like the paganism and the like the priests touching the kids. And. And why? Like, do you do you not know that they drink, they get alcoholic people to come and drink in their churches. And I’m like, okay, like.

00:26:09:18 – 01:26:11:13
This man doesn’t know what’s going on.

00:26:11:15 – 01:26:12:23
And I try to be as calm.

00:26:12:23 – 01:26:14:00
As possible with them.

00:26:14:03 – 01:26:16:17
But this he he loved you. And he was trying.

00:26:16:17 – 01:26:25:07
To he was trying. Yeah. But then I started getting like, not love, but more like very hurtful.

00:26:25:09 – 01:26:26:04
Okay.

00:26:26:06 – 01:26:57:19
Like, my mom sent an article once about schizophrenia and how, like, maybe I have schizophrenia. I told her about the dream. My brother will say things I can’t think of as, like, a specific quote, but it’s more like you’re smarter than this. Like, I never thought you’re just stupid. Like, yeah, you’re so unintelligent. Whenever I try to share my faith, he would be like, I want you to never talk to me about this effing Jesus.

00:26:57:19 – 01:27:00:00
Lord, forgive me for ever again.

00:27:00:02 – 01:27:03:14
And.

00:27:03:17 – 01:27:26:25
And then my dad finds out the last and he finds out actually years later, how, I was, how did this happen? So I started in university. I started with a degree in English, and then halfway through the Lord put it on my heart to do theology. Yeah. So I changed everything, and I went to theology.

00:27:26:28 – 01:27:35:21
My dad found out I was doing theology, and he was confused. He’s like, what? What are you learning about? And I told him with the New Testament, like, I was like, I’m just doing this for research stuff.

00:27:35:21 – 01:27:38:10
Just testing the waters to see how he might react or.

00:27:38:12 – 01:27:42:08
Well, I don’t think he would care. Like he’d be like, oh, like to find out what they believe.

00:27:42:08 – 01:27:43:18
And why it’s wrong. I was like, yeah.

00:27:43:25 – 01:27:52:16
Like, I don’t know. Like, yeah, yeah, it’s there’s something about Arab culture or if you don’t talk about it, it’s not true. Like he must have known.

00:27:52:16 – 01:27:56:20
Somewhere deep down or something was going on. Yeah, well, if you don’t talk about it, it’s not true.

00:27:56:22 – 01:28:02:24
So he was just, like, living in denial. Yeah. He even told his friend once that, like.

00:28:02:26 – 01:28:07:25
Yeah, my my son is learning about the New Testament to prove the Christians wrong. And I’m like, I never said that.

00:28:08:02 – 01:28:15:16
But I was like, sure. And yeah. So like he started finding out like little clues where.

00:28:15:18 – 01:28:32:24
I’m gone on Sundays. He thought I volunteer at a church once for like, some homeless thing. And he’s like, well, not at the mosque or whatever. The church is better or not. So I was like, no, I just, I don’t know, we don’t get along. People at the mosque. I never lied to him. Yeah. I never said I was a muslim.

00:28:32:27 – 01:28:49:29
I never said I believed in, all right, I did, but then I had to for a little while. Just think strategically about how to tell, because I was generally, like, scared for my safety. Like, not because he would ever want to hurt me, but the shock might make him like, hit me or something. I don’t know what would happen.

00:28:49:29 – 01:29:15:28
Yeah. Eventually, I told him indirectly, without even knowing it. He really got on my nerves once and talking about, like I should change my degree and I don’t know, I go help some friends and I text him this quote from the Quran, the one I just said it earlier in this, podcast where I say, like I’m adding, you have your religion, I have mine.

00:29:16:00 – 01:29:39:23
And he calls me. He’s like, what do you mean? You have your religion, I have mine. I was like, yeah, we have a different thing. So like, what do you mean you believe different things? Are you a muslim or. And he’s Asad and it came right in my mouth. I was like, no blah blah blah, Muslim. And I hear him crying on the phone and I’m like, I, I go home right away.

00:29:39:23 – 01:30:01:00
I go home and I see him on the ground shaking like in tears, like scared. Like praying in Arabic. Please God, don’t to help. Please God, I said, now and my brother’s calling me because he found out what happened to my mom. Probably told him and he’s like blaming me. Like you’re the reason why this family’s breaking up.

00:30:01:00 – 01:30:17:07
You’re the reason why all these issues are happening. It’s you’re the reason why my mom’s looking at me like, look what you done. And I want to help him. I want to do something like, well, sure, we don’t get along about everything, but he’s still my dad. Yeah, he raised me. He.

00:30:17:10 – 01:30:24:27
Without him, I wouldn’t be where I was. And eventually he gets.

00:30:24:27 – 01:30:41:22
Up, he sits on the couch and we sit there and he said, tell me the whole story. So I tell him the whole story, and I was told you and he said, okay, okay, I just need to be alone. I said, I love you. I said, okay, oh.

00:30:41:24 – 01:30:42:11
Bless him.

00:30:42:11 – 01:30:50:25
And for a whole year he never said, I love you back after that. He never said, I love you back. He,

00:30:50:28 – 01:30:52:17
I would hear him crying at night. Oh.

00:30:52:17 – 01:30:54:00
Bless him. Yeah.

00:30:54:03 – 01:31:18:00
I, I once caught. I’m sorry. I was really emotional. I once caught him like outside on the, on the deck. Just like because we live by the water. He was by the water. And he’s like praying in Arabic. It’s like, what have I done to deserve this? Yeah. It was really hard on him. Now we’re at a point where I just told him that I’m engaged.

00:31:18:00 – 01:31:34:14
I want to be getting married, a church. Congratulations. Thank you so much. And he said, I told him you don’t have to come to the mass, but you are welcome to come to the dinner and, he sent me a heart, so I’m.

00:31:34:14 – 01:31:46:02
Assuming that’s good. You know, men, we all. It’s like. It’s like a thumbs up, like, hey, dad, I’m drowning. It’s good. Please send me a heart. And I was like, oh, he’s got. He understands. So I think he might actually.

00:31:46:02 – 01:32:05:11
Show up for the dinner. So he’s come a very long way. I’m actually very proud of him for how he came. All that being said, my family is nowhere near Christ at all. Like nothing has changed. Yeah, that area, which hurts me a lot. Because I actually just want the best for them. I would love them to know.

00:32:05:15 – 01:32:14:15
I would love for him to know the love that Christ has for them. It’s just people. Yeah, I felt like who they are now.

00:32:14:17 – 01:32:20:03
Your dad sounds like a beautiful man. He sounds like he’s got a big heart. He’s a very what’s best for you.

00:32:20:05 – 01:32:22:04
He came to Canada with nothing.

00:32:22:06 – 01:32:23:16
He blessed me.

00:32:23:16 – 01:32:37:09
I worked for ten years or something, became a citizen. And he, like he. He’s a very conservative man. So he doesn’t agree with, like, gay marriage and stuff. But he always taught me, like, you respect everyone in Canada. They’ve done the best for you. Isn’t that beautiful?

00:32:37:10 – 01:32:40:00
Like he picked the country. They welcomed us in.

00:32:40:00 – 01:32:58:04
He welcomed. Yeah. Like the Middle East is not a safe place. Like without Canada, we would have been living in poverty in Egypt. So yeah, my dad didn’t come from like a rich family in Egypt. Yeah. And yeah, he’s a great man.

00:32:58:06 – 01:33:11:03
I mean, I think we, you know, like, it’s admirable that your dad prays five times a day. It’s admirable that your dad wakes up in the morning and you say, goes to the mosque to pray, even though he doesn’t have to accept on Fridays.

00:33:11:05 – 01:33:11:17
He loves.

00:33:11:17 – 01:33:22:12
God. We can reject our religion and yet find virtue in it and in its practices. And there is something very manly actually about committing to worshiping God. The way you understand it.

00:33:22:15 – 01:33:31:08
I gotta be honest, like some of my friends told me to go to mass at 7 a.m. once, and I was very, I went twice and then I kind of backslide, and I just don’t do it.

00:33:31:12 – 01:33:35:03
Yeah. And like, I see my dad, like, all right. Going to the mosque, and it’s like.

00:33:35:03 – 01:33:35:19
5 a.m. in the.

00:33:35:19 – 01:33:36:18
Morning. Bless him. Yeah.

00:33:36:23 – 01:33:56:24
Like he’s 73 years old, by the way. And he still fast Ramadan fully. Yeah. And the love he has for God is immense. It is huge. And the Islam that he follows is one where I don’t know how he finds it. Okay, I know he’s read the hadith.

00:33:56:27 – 01:34:01:23
But he he kind of like it’s like Muslim.

00:34:01:25 – 01:34:23:21
Like modern Islam are like like the everyday Muslim who doesn’t actually believe in the violence or doesn’t actually believe the terrible things. Yeah, he he sees the world in a unique way. So I have a lot of admiration for him. Same for my mom. My mom till today. It hurts her a lot that I’m a Catholic, specifically a Catholic.

00:34:23:21 – 01:34:29:17
She thinks a lot of people do what the Catholic Church is like the worst thing in the history of mankind. And that.

00:34:29:17 – 01:34:35:03
Like we, we basically if we didn’t exist, you’d be like light years in.

00:34:35:03 – 01:34:36:14
The future or something like that. Sure.

00:34:36:17 – 01:34:39:13
And yeah, not at all sure. But yeah.

00:34:39:16 – 01:34:41:19
Like half the hospitals. Okay. Yeah.

00:34:41:21 – 01:34:43:24
Scientific revolution and advances.

00:34:43:24 – 01:34:45:01
Big bang on. Yeah, the.

00:34:45:01 – 01:34:48:10
Leper colony etc.. Yeah, yeah.

00:34:48:12 – 01:34:50:05
But but I get it.

00:34:50:09 – 01:34:52:00
Bless her heart still. Yeah.

00:34:52:03 – 01:35:13:24
I think it is so important maybe to say a word to people watching who are in similar experiences. You know, it is it is kind of wild because I feel like they’re we’re in this weird generation where the young people are reclaiming tradition, that the boomers throughout forgive the slur, but yeah, when I, when I kind of grew up, it was about abandoning the faith for partying.

00:35:13:24 – 01:35:33:03
But I’m meeting more and more people who are like, pretending to go to parties so that parents wouldn’t be horrified that they’re going to church, you know, and, you know, what advice, I guess, do you have for someone out there who’s in the process of converting or who has converted and their parents aren’t speaking to them? What have you learned through this whole experience?

00:35:33:05 – 01:35:52:05
I want to tell you about hello, which is the number one downloaded prayer app in the world. It’s outstanding. Hello.com/matt. Fred, sign up over there right now and you will get the first three months for free. That’s like a lot of time. You can decide whether it’s useful to you or not, whether it’s helpful. If you don’t like it you can always quit.

00:35:52:05 – 01:36:17:26
Hello.com/matt Fred I use it my family uses. It’s fantastic. There are over 10,000 audio guided prayers, meditations and music including my lo fi hello has been downloaded over 15 million times and 150 different countries. That helps you pray. It helps you meditate, helps you sleep better, and helps you build a daily routine and a habit of prayer. There’s honestly so much excellent stuff on this app that it’s difficult to get through it all.

00:36:17:26 – 01:36:33:12
Just go check it out. Hello.com/matt Fry. The link is in the description below. It even has an entire section for kids. So if you’re a parent you could play little Bible stories to them at night. It’ll help them pray. Fantastic. Oh hello combat fried.

00:36:33:15 – 01:36:39:00
Be ready for it to get worse. Like it doesn’t get better.

00:36:39:02 – 01:36:53:09
I don’t want to sugarcoat it. It could be better, but always prepare for the worst. Like all the friends that were with me at the beginning of my conversion. The 15 people that were with me, I only talked to 1 or 2.

00:36:53:12 – 01:36:56:18
Those who are not Catholic. You’re talking about like this atheist friend of yours?

00:36:56:18 – 01:37:02:13
No friends. The 15 people from the like. The beginning of the story. Who saw me have my conversion.

00:37:02:21 – 01:37:03:15
Oh, none.

00:37:03:15 – 01:37:06:09
Of them talk to me, but one person.

00:37:06:12 – 01:37:07:07
The Catholics.

00:37:07:07 – 01:37:24:17
Yes. Why don’t they talk to you? This is the saddest thing I’m going to ever say. Yeah. I’ve never been more backstabbed by anyone than Christians. Yeah, why? I don’t know, Chris. I specifically Catholics, actually, and that sounds insane to say.

00:37:24:19 – 01:37:27:28
But to me it proves the truth almost.

00:37:27:28 – 01:37:33:21
Because it’s like, of course, the people in God’s church who are sinners are going to be the worst people.

00:37:33:24 – 01:37:36:02
But, it’s like with their.

00:37:36:06 – 01:37:42:00
Reasons that they turned on you. I don’t I don’t we don’t have to get into personal.

00:37:42:02 – 01:37:45:23
It’s not like, personal thing because it’s just like, stupid.

00:37:45:23 – 01:37:48:17
Arguments are just politics.

00:37:48:17 – 01:37:55:22
Are the way we should face at mass for the altar, like for the priest. And I’m like.

00:37:55:24 – 01:38:10:28
People we, we have the most in common with can sometimes drive us nuts. I mean, it’s why siblings fight so much. Because we do love each other. We are so close. It’s a lot easier to get furious with your brother than you would perhaps just a stranger or a friend.

00:38:11:01 – 01:38:14:15
I’ll give you a good example. Actually, I.

00:38:14:17 – 01:38:22:12
Had this group chat once and I invited people to go to this aspect mass, and I don’t I don’t go to it. I don’t really care too much about it.

00:38:22:15 – 01:38:24:03
But I said, hey, it’d be nice to go to.

00:38:24:03 – 01:38:34:19
See what it feels like. You don’t have to receive, just check it out. I got so much like backlash for that. It was insane. I like I lost friendships over that one marriage. Yeah.

00:38:34:19 – 01:38:35:21
Oh, that’s so unfortunate.

00:38:35:21 – 01:38:43:24
It is unfortunate, but I’ve never seen a group of, like, people more divided than they do one universal church.

00:38:43:26 – 01:38:49:26
Well, it’s important, I think, that people realize if they’re looking into Catholicism, that they’re not walking into the Garden of Eden.

00:38:49:28 – 01:38:50:03
That’s.

00:38:50:03 – 01:38:50:22
What I’m kind of getting.

00:38:50:24 – 01:39:11:29
Yeah, there’s a great deal of snakes and corruption in every institution, including the church. And so if you’re becoming Catholic because you’ve found a perfect community. Oh, wait. Because you definitely haven’t found that, yeah. Yeah, it’s a it’s a wretched community. I mean, you know, it’s it’s divinely instituted and it’s where the medicine is.

00:39:12:06 – 01:39:27:21
I noticed it the first week I became a Christian. I went to a mass and I couldn’t receive. At the time, I was just sitting there, And the priest preached on why we shouldn’t evangelize to Muslims and Jews because they worship the same God.

00:39:27:24 – 01:39:32:06
And I’m like, are you? I just converted last week. Why am I here? Yeah. And I go to.

00:39:32:06 – 01:39:35:05
Another priest and he’s saying how every single Muslim and.

00:39:35:05 – 01:39:45:03
Jew is going to be burning in hell. And I’m like, what? Like, how are you guys on the same church? I know he pendulums. That’s what like, my experience is like, you guys are making fun of the.

00:39:45:03 – 01:39:47:06
Protestants for being unite, not being united.

00:39:47:09 – 01:39:51:15
Yeah, like, so why be Catholic then if there’s so much corruption and infighting?

00:39:51:18 – 01:39:52:02
Because it’s.

00:39:52:02 – 01:39:54:24
True. But also, like, we can go into.

00:39:54:24 – 01:39:55:22
Why I picked Catholicism.

00:39:55:22 – 01:39:58:25
Yeah. Why not be Coptic? Go.

00:39:58:27 – 01:40:00:29
I tried to be Coptic. They didn’t want me. Okay.

00:40:01:00 – 01:40:02:29
So some of them are, you know.

00:40:02:29 – 01:40:04:18
Of course. Yeah. Well, like the Coptic church.

00:40:04:19 – 01:40:19:15
Where I was from was like, how do I say this? I went and talked to, like, the administrative person, and they wouldn’t let me become Coptic because they were afraid that I was like a secret, like Muslim.

00:40:19:16 – 01:40:21:18
Oh, trying to, like, come in.

00:40:21:20 – 01:40:26:20
And like, well, if any group of Christians should be nervous about that, it’s probably them.

00:40:26:22 – 01:40:29:02
Yeah. No 100. I didn’t even blame them. I was like.

00:40:29:04 – 01:40:30:07
This kind of actually.

00:40:30:07 – 01:40:31:05
This is it makes a lot of sense.

00:40:31:05 – 01:40:36:03
Like, are you engaging in apologetics to Muslims? Yeah. That’s how.

00:40:36:05 – 01:40:42:21
Usually online. So I don’t do videos every once in a while. You have a YouTube channel? Yeah. It’s, Asia of Arabia. It’s,

00:40:42:24 – 01:40:44:20
So people should go follow you.

00:40:44:22 – 01:40:46:18
Yeah. Go for it. Yeah.

00:40:46:21 – 01:40:58:18
My biggest one is my Instagram. It’s also called Ass of Arabia, but that one, I talked to anyone who messaged me. I basically I say like, if you’re a muslim and you want to debate, message me one on one, we can video chat.

00:40:58:24 – 01:40:59:23
And have you been doing that?

00:40:59:24 – 01:41:00:06
Yes.

00:41:00:12 – 01:41:01:22
How’s that? Bingo.

00:41:01:24 – 01:41:06:01
They always in the ended when they realize I speak Arabic. Oh yeah.

00:41:06:03 – 01:41:14:02
That does tend to be the go to that. If you’re not speaking Arabic then you haven’t actually read the Koran and therefore you are ignorant and.

00:41:14:04 – 01:41:32:14
Yeah, that sounds to be it. But a lot of times it’s funny too, because the people who messaged me, they don’t realize I don’t speak Arabic and then I find out they don’t speak Arabic and, but I do and then they end it. So it’s kind of funny. Like it’s kind of ironic how that happens, but

00:41:32:16 – 01:41:42:06
I yeah, I’ve been getting wind of mass conversions from the Islamic world to Christianity. Have you heard of that? Is that being overplayed?

00:41:42:09 – 01:41:49:14
I’ll tell you one thing. It’s underplayed. If anything, I don’t think people realize how many Muslims are becoming Christian.

00:41:49:18 – 01:41:50:16
Tell me about,

00:41:50:19 – 01:41:57:05
I know personally at least 100 people, like, in my personal like life.

00:41:57:05 – 01:41:59:08
From the. From where? From the Middle East, from.

00:41:59:08 – 01:42:09:09
Syria, from Jordan, from Yemen, from, immigrants who came to Canada are the kids of immigrants who came to Canada or the U.S or England.

00:42:09:11 – 01:42:11:20
Wow. Just you alone know about 100?

00:42:11:21 – 01:42:26:25
They’re everywhere. I know I what I saw, it’s a university that was Muslim his whole life until up to like two years ago, I became a Christian. There. I don’t know what it is. Number one thing is dreams and visions.

00:42:26:25 – 01:42:29:00
I’m hearing that.

00:42:29:03 – 01:42:34:29
Everything. You had a dream. I had a dream with Jesus. Every. Every Muslim, like maybe.

00:42:35:02 – 01:42:41:25
I would say 50 to 70% of them explained to me how.

00:42:41:28 – 01:42:45:07
It’s always like Jesus or an angel.

00:42:45:09 – 01:42:52:05
But nine times out of ten is Jesus saying something either very specific like, go to this store, meet this man.

00:42:52:12 – 01:42:53:13
I talk to him.

00:42:53:18 – 01:43:09:10
He will tell you the truth, oh my goodness, or something like I am the Son of Allah. Like something like that. Like something so profound. Yeah. Mine was just him on the cross. That’s what I needed.

00:43:09:12 – 01:43:10:18
And then these people.

00:43:10:24 – 01:43:23:13
When they’re having these dreams. Because Jesus is a person in Islam, they’re realizing he’s not a prophet. Even if the dream is just him. Like smiling at them. There’s something about the encounter.

00:43:23:15 – 01:43:25:06
The Christ is more than a prophet.

00:43:25:06 – 01:43:27:08
Is there something different about him? He’s not just a prophet.

00:43:27:08 – 01:43:28:20
Yeah, yeah.

00:43:28:23 – 01:43:29:01
And.

00:43:29:01 – 01:43:33:13
These Muslims, they’re flocking to Christianity because.

00:43:33:13 – 01:43:36:08
I think I think there’s like secular reasons.

00:43:36:08 – 01:43:58:29
And there’s also like religious reasons, like spiritual reasons, the secular reasons, I would say just the rise of the Islamic State in the 20 tens, the Iranian revolution, like the cyber revolution and how terrible that was for the country, Egypt, like we had the Muslim Brotherhood in and that was terrible for the country. And people are looking for other faith besides Islam.

00:43:59:02 – 01:44:19:25
And the biggest ones, Christianity that I also, I think the spiritual reason are like the reason. The real reason why people are becoming Christian is because the hardest place to reach people is the Muslim world. If you go and preach to any Muslim country and you’re you’re caught. They if you’re like a Western like citizen, you leave.

00:44:19:26 – 01:44:44:24
Yeah, but you have to get out the country. But if you’re from that country and you’re preaching, you can get killed, you can get imprisoned. I know someone who the Jordanian government took his house. They could. There’s no law for apostasy in Jordan, but there’s a law for public unrest. And so they considered a public address. So they took his house, all his finances.

00:44:44:26 – 01:45:02:00
So he lives in someone else’s house for free. Basically, you can get a job. Nothing. You can’t leave the country either. So, Egypt. I think if I went back to Egypt, even though I’m not a Egyptian citizen, technically, I’m a Canadian. If I was Egyptian citizen, I can get ten years imprisonment.

00:45:02:03 – 01:45:03:08
If you were to go back.

00:45:03:10 – 01:45:32:12
And they know I was preaching Christianity, that laws never been, like, refined or changed. It’s still there. And of course, there’s like Saudi Arabia, Iran, where the penalty is death. I think it’s around 12 Muslim countries that there’s some type of penalty for conversion because Muhammad literally says, like a quote from Muhammad directly. Mentor. You know, whoever leaves his religion kill him.

00:45:32:14 – 01:45:53:27
But it there’s no ifs, ands, or buts. Now there’s schools of thought that say like, should we kill him after three days, give him time to repent, maybe three weeks. But there’s the the rule is kill him. But even Muslim countries today, like, are realizing they can’t just go around killing people because of, like, I don’t know, the rest of the world would not let this happen.

00:45:54:00 – 01:45:58:09
So like Egypt has like ten years. Jordan’s like public unrest, stuff like that.

00:45:58:09 – 01:46:00:05
Yeah.

00:46:00:08 – 01:46:06:03
So yeah. So the Muslim world has a lot of Christians hiding. I would say for.

00:46:06:03 – 01:46:13:11
Every leftist in Egypt are like 10% of the country is Christian. But I would probably.

00:46:13:11 – 01:46:17:20
Say it’s almost as high as 18%.

00:46:17:22 – 01:46:20:09
Have you personally been threatened?

00:46:20:16 – 01:46:25:00
Yeah, I was assaulted once, but,

00:46:25:02 – 01:46:27:20
Do you want to share that?

00:46:27:22 – 01:46:29:04

00:46:29:06 – 01:46:30:23
Nothing happened. I forgive the person.

00:46:30:23 – 01:46:31:27
Like. Like they knew.

00:46:31:27 – 01:46:44:17
What I was doing. They came up to me, they punched me, and eventually I just told them I forgive them. And then that was it. I kind of took a legal charge to them. I don’t want to say who it is.

00:46:44:17 – 01:46:46:03
Yeah, because.

00:46:46:06 – 01:46:52:28
They might come to Christ one day. Yeah. And I want that two part journey. But I’ve gotten death threats online like a lot.

00:46:53:01 – 01:46:54:01
Over Instagram.

00:46:54:01 – 01:47:02:08
Or Instagram. YouTube. I got an email one. So it’s really interesting. I don’t know how they got my email, but, besides.

00:47:02:08 – 01:47:04:08
That and like, no, in person.

00:47:04:08 – 01:47:18:29
People seem to be okay most of the time because you can’t really do much in the Western world. Like if someone tries to assault me, like in person in Halifax, like, yeah, someone’s going to see and let’s call the cops.

00:47:19:02 – 01:47:28:03
Yeah. Who’s doing the best work right now out there in regards to apologetics to Muslims on YouTube, like, oh.

00:47:28:06 – 01:47:48:27
I’m 100%. Yeah. Sam Shamoon I talked him a little bit. He’s amazing. I love him so much. He now he’s very harsh, but he knows his audience when it comes to the different groups, you have to act in different ways. When it comes to Muslims, you have to be harsh because, okay, that’s how they are when it comes to debating in general.

00:47:48:29 – 01:47:58:25
That’s like a part of the religion when it comes to like Mormonism or Latter-Day Saints. You have to be like kinder and nicer because they’re more kind of nice. You have to know the audience. You’re talking to.

00:47:58:25 – 01:48:01:11
Yeah. And so I always see like.

00:48:01:14 – 01:48:05:29
Comments from other Christians being like, you’re so harsh, Sam, on these people, okay?

00:48:05:29 – 01:48:10:00
And I’m like, but you realize you’re from that culture that.

00:48:10:02 – 01:48:14:12
They need if you if you’re easy on them, they actually, some.

00:48:14:12 – 01:48:24:28
Christians don’t realize that if you’re not aggressive, they think that you don’t actually believe it. So if I don’t, and if I’m not aggressive about my faith and passionate about it, I’m not yelling.

00:48:25:00 – 01:48:34:09
And saying slurs. Yeah, the like the Muslims mind is like, you must not even believe they’re not even passionate about it. Why are you so calm? Intriguing. Yeah. In our Western like.

00:48:34:09 – 01:48:42:06
Context, we’re like, oh, like, he’s young, he’s being so immature. This is so unprofessional. But for their mind, it’s like.

00:48:42:09 – 01:48:53:15
Yeah, he’s he’s willing to debate because he believes so much he’s willing to die for it and like, link and fight this man in the studio. Yeah. But meanwhile we wouldn’t do that. Yeah.

00:48:53:18 – 01:48:59:26
So Sam gets it. Okay. And I think he the way he’s doing is beautiful for Muslims.

00:48:59:26 – 01:49:02:24
How is he doing it? I haven’t watched his videos in a long time.

00:49:02:26 – 01:49:06:09
He just like an example would be like.

00:49:06:09 – 01:49:11:15
Someone asked like, some would say on his livestream like, oh, Islam so beautiful.

00:49:11:17 – 01:49:13:19
And the he’ll be like, oh yeah.

00:49:13:20 – 01:49:15:09
Like when Muhammad mounted Aisha. It’s so.

00:49:15:09 – 01:49:21:28
Beautiful. Like he’ll say like that. And then and then of course all the Christians like, so on Christ like, But they need to.

00:49:21:28 – 01:49:25:11
Hear it because they never thought about it. Yeah, yeah. So who.

00:49:25:11 – 01:49:26:27
Else?

00:49:27:00 – 01:49:28:18
Cameron Bertuzzi

00:49:28:20 – 01:49:30:17
Yeah. He’s doing some more videos, isn’t he?

00:49:30:18 – 01:49:31:10
He is.

00:49:31:13 – 01:49:33:02
I wish they had.

00:49:33:02 – 01:49:54:22
Someone on the videos that spoke Arabic because. Right. The same Sam, I think Sam knows some Arabic. He must like the way he calls the Koran is like. And his pronunciation is crazy good. Okay, so he must have at least grown up. Like speaking some because I know he’s from, like a Syria Iraq area. He learned something.

00:49:54:26 – 01:50:08:13
But for capturing Christianity, I wish they had someone who was more knowledgeable about Islam because I watched his videos about it, and it’s amazing. But there’s some points. I can see a muslim easily. There’s like.

00:50:08:15 – 01:50:11:23
Well, I’d be happy to put you in touch with Cameron. I’m sure he’d be okay.

00:50:11:23 – 01:50:17:04
I would love to talk to him, but he’s a good dude. Besides that.

00:50:17:06 – 01:50:18:06
There’s a few people, like,

00:50:18:13 – 01:50:25:27
What was his name? David Wood. Yeah, I love David Wood. He’s been doing it for years. Yeah, I knew about David Wood since I was, like 12, and.

00:50:25:29 – 01:50:27:01
I don’t know, like, I.

00:50:27:03 – 01:50:38:10
I saw a video about him, like, oh, he’s just being stupid. I don’t really think about too much. And by far the most, like, popular person ever is then Bill crazy, who passed away 2016. Have you.

00:50:38:10 – 01:50:38:21
Read his.

00:50:38:21 – 01:50:41:25
Work? I read his, what’s it called?

00:50:42:01 – 01:50:43:18
His. Was it his autobiography?

00:50:43:20 – 01:51:01:11
Oh, seeking Allah, finding Jesus. Right? Yeah. So it’s called I read that, before I became a Christian, after I became a Christian, and before I became a Christian, I was like, okay, so he’s cool. He had some dreams. And then after I became a Christian, I was like, oh my goodness, this guy’s stories like amazing, like, praise God.

00:51:01:14 – 01:51:06:16
I knew about him while I was still Muslim in Egypt. I was like 13.

00:51:06:18 – 01:51:08:15
And I,

00:51:08:17 – 01:51:29:06
Messaged him on Facebook, be like, hey, why would you leave Islam? I’m really curious. Yeah, I wasn’t really aggressive. I was just really interested. Yeah. He never got back to me. And then he’s really, really popular at the time. But yeah, his story in particular has moved Muslims around the world. And he’s he’s with our Lord now since 2016.

00:51:29:06 – 01:51:30:03
So. Yeah. Yeah.

00:51:30:09 – 01:51:43:18
What advice would you have to a muslim who might be watching this right now? And they’re terrified, maybe because of external threats, but maybe because they just don’t want to make the wrong decision and they don’t want to offend Allah.

00:51:43:20 – 01:52:15:00
Allah will not be affected because the first words in the Quran is, which means to read or seek knowledge. And if you’re truly just trying to find out, I don’t think I’ll ever be offended because if he is offended for seeking knowledge, then he’s a pretty weak God. Same as Christianity. If you’re too afraid to go deep into your Bible and find the gory stuff in it because it might offend God, then maybe you’re worshiping a different God than the true Jesus.

00:52:15:02 – 01:52:21:12
Like if you if you think God’s gonna be offended for you looking up some stuff online, then that’s a whole different discussion.

00:52:21:15 – 01:52:29:29
I’m sure we will have some Muslims watching this because they’re flirting with Christianity, and they want to kind of hear what are some of these converts saying?

00:52:30:01 – 01:52:49:18
I think a big one too, is why is the Koran so human? And what I mean by that is like, this is why to Muslims, like I ask myself this sometimes too. When I was Muslim, there’s a whole chapter in the Koran that’s literally about insulting someone who insulted Muhammad.

00:52:49:20 – 01:52:50:27

00:52:51:10 – 01:52:52:10
Like.

00:52:52:13 – 01:52:55:20
What you’re talking like, why would the God.

00:52:55:20 – 01:53:06:26
Of the universe reveal a chapter for such a specific event in human history and not like, I don’t know, the cure for cancer?

00:53:06:29 – 01:53:12:23
Like, you know, I mean, so, like, why would he he would not tell us about, like.

00:53:12:26 – 01:53:16:16
How the Byzantine Empire is going to fall to Islam or.

00:53:16:18 – 01:53:20:02
How would it be fair? We don’t have a lot of those things in the scriptures.

00:53:20:04 – 01:53:38:20
We do when it comes to Christ, like the prophecies about Christ and the Old Testament are so amazing when they compare to Jesus. And the Bible is not claiming to be a scientific book while Muslims, a lot of Muslims claim the Koran has scientific miracles.

00:53:38:25 – 01:53:53:20
Yeah, tell us about that, because I’ve heard, you know, that maybe embryology dates back. Yeah. And the Big bang is somehow predicted in there. But you would know more than me. So what the Muslims claim the Quran teaches and why are they wrong?

00:53:53:22 – 01:53:56:01
So we kind of know where.

00:53:56:03 – 01:54:30:12
These claims came from. So there’s one, the Big Bang one was like, it says how old the earth and the sky were together. They separated. So supposedly that’s the big bang, which. Sure. Let’s go to that one. Okay. Embryology is very off. So we we now know today that the bones and the, the flesh of the embryo are created, are forming at the same time where the Koran says the bones formed before the flesh, so it gets it off in some way.

00:54:30:15 – 01:54:33:11
And it’s actually a direct copy.

00:54:33:13 – 01:54:54:07
Of what the ancient Greeks thought about embryology. So what happened was a lot of Greek stuff that was going on in ancient Greece was translated into Arabic, and by Muhammad’s time it just got into the Koran. And we see this with other topics like the stories about Jesus in the Koran are very gnostic, and we’ll finish the scientific miracles first.

00:54:54:07 – 01:55:15:13
But the scientific miracles are basically just Greek medicine. I’m one that is very much ancient Greek is that male sperm is created in the backbones because they didn’t know where milk like the sperm was made. So it says in the Koran that the male sperm is created in your backbones. And we all know that’s not true.

00:55:15:14 – 01:55:19:07
Like it’s not a muslim apologist. Respond to that to they do they say it’s sort of,

00:55:19:12 – 01:55:20:27
Well, if you don’t speak Arabic, they’ll be like.

00:55:20:27 – 01:55:27:15
Well, in Arabic, blackboard also means testicle. But if I say if I speaking with them, they’re like, well, you’re.

00:55:27:15 – 01:55:29:28
Just an ignorant infidel and then they’ll hang.

00:55:29:28 – 01:55:36:00
Up. So I was like, that’s what this is. What happens. I don’t know how to respond, but like in, like a.

00:55:36:00 – 01:55:55:07
Public setting or I can debate I’ve seen them and they usually just change the subject or they do like tequila where they live or something and try to, like, change the subject. Something else. Okay. Say that like science has not found out yet that sperm is actually created in the backbones. So they’ll actually say, no, science is wrong.

00:55:55:07 – 01:56:22:27
The Koran is right. Okay, so things like that, the biggest ones for me were actually not the scientific miracles, but the Gnostic texts. Yeah. That made in the Koran. Yeah. Talk about that. So there are some strange stories about Jesus in the Quran. Two of the most popular ones is that when Jesus was just born, he speaks in the crib as a baby and he says, I’m the Messenger of Allah, sent down to you.

00:56:23:00 – 01:56:44:21
And he’s like a day old. He’s speaking. We know where the story’s from. It’s from the infant gospel, the Gospel of Thomas. The wording is different. So it’s the same story where Jesus is born and it’s like the first day of the womb. And he says, I am the logos, the Word of God. Worship me. Something like that.

00:56:44:23 – 01:56:49:06
So what the Quran did was take the exact same story. Yeah. And change the words.

00:56:49:08 – 01:56:49:29
Yeah.

00:56:50:02 – 01:57:15:29
I’ve really infant, famous one is, the the clay bird that comes to life. Yes. Where? Christ, he takes his clay bird, he blows into it, and he becomes like a living bird. And this story is like a direct story from the Arabian gospel, which was written, I don’t know what’s called the Arabian gospel. The Syriac Gospel, 1 or 2, but it’s a Gnostic gospel and it’s from the fourth, fifth century.

00:57:16:02 – 01:57:26:00
So only like 102 hundred years before Islam begins. And it’s in Arabia. So the story ends, and the Aryans and everyone around like Mecca would hear the story.

00:57:26:00 – 01:57:26:17
Yeah.

00:57:26:20 – 01:57:47:06
And it talks about how Christ creates this bird out of clay and of course, Muslims would just say like, well, maybe those are the true gospels. And. Right. And then the fake gospels are the ones that are in the Bible. But history obviously disproves that. But not just history.

00:57:47:08 – 01:57:49:03
If that’s true.

00:57:49:06 – 01:58:18:23
It would disprove that Jesus is just a human. And the reason why that is, is because the way that Christ creates that clay bird, or the living bird from clay is the exact same way Allah creates humans from clay and blows into it. So the story is a it’s a parallel to, Allah creating humans, creating Adam flowing into the clay and then adding becomes the living being.

00:58:18:26 – 01:58:49:15
Then Christ blows into this bird. This bird becomes a living being who can create. But God now wasn’t able to say like, oh, well, Christ created with the permission of God. But then that’s also an issue because God in Islam cannot had that cannot have partners in creation. And if Jesus created something, even it was just that one clay bird with the permission of a law that means Allah needed Jesus to create this bird.

00:58:49:17 – 01:59:32:12
He allowed Jesus to share and this divine nature in some way to create this bird. And that one is really troubling to me. At least I know how Muslims like think about it, because it goes against the whole concept of how Islam thinks and understands God. And there’s this quote in the Koran, too, or verse in the Koran where this one’s actually crazy because it’s mistranslated terribly in English and it goes in Arabic, and Mary Sabina Mariam, whoever criminal law foreign men know that Jesus, the Son of Mary, is the Word of God and a spirit from him that was cast down that Allah I’ll call her.

00:59:32:12 – 01:59:35:13
He cast down from heaven.

00:59:35:15 – 01:59:39:09
In English it says Jesus is a word.

00:59:39:11 – 01:59:44:28
From heaven and created by the Spirit of God.

00:59:45:01 – 01:59:46:24
Doesn’t say that in Arabic at all like I did.

00:59:46:26 – 01:59:55:10
The translation is butchered completely. The Arabic literally says Jesus is.

00:59:55:13 – 02:00:00:10
It says Jesus is God’s word and His Spirit.

00:00:00:17 – 02:00:18:05
Cast out from heaven. Basically, that’s what it says. And I don’t know how anyone can read that and be like, how are you? Why? Like, where is he getting this from? Obviously, the gospel of John and he’s getting it from the word was with God and the word was God, right?

00:00:18:10 – 02:00:24:07
So you have Mohammed plagiarizing. He’s both Christian gospels and Gnostic. Gnostic. Yeah.

00:00:24:12 – 02:00:26:06
And he’s obviously hearing it because he’s misquoting.

00:00:26:06 – 02:00:26:18
Yeah, yeah.

00:00:26:18 – 02:00:42:28
Yeah, he’s was calling them and I don’t like the word alcohol is crazy to me because it means cast out. It doesn’t mean create. Like we still use it in Arabic today. Like we mean like when I saw something off a building, like, that’s what the words used for. So if.

00:00:42:28 – 02:00:43:28
This is God’s word.

00:00:43:28 – 02:00:48:04
That’s thrown down from heaven into the womb of Mary.

00:00:48:07 – 02:00:50:24
That sounds very like divine.

00:00:50:25 – 02:01:01:19
Like if he was with God from the beginning, and then he goes back up to God because like they do believe, Jesus ascended as well. So there’s this prophet not dying. He didn’t die. Yeah, apparently.

00:01:01:22 – 02:01:08:15
Of course. And then he, like, came down, lived, like a sinless life. And then before he died.

00:01:08:15 – 02:01:11:26
He was saved and ascended to heaven. Yeah.

00:01:11:29 – 02:01:14:12
Honestly. Like, it sounds like Jesus.

00:01:14:12 – 02:01:18:21
Is more God in the Koran than in Christianity because he did what.

00:01:18:21 – 02:01:30:13
He did. So the point you’re making here is not that the account of Christ in the Koran is historical, but that even if you would accept it as historical, you would have reason to think him divine. Yes.

00:01:30:19 – 02:01:40:01
Yeah, it’s not historical, but it’s very much I think it’s I don’t know how you can get around the concept that Jesus is not at least some way part of Allah.

00:01:40:04 – 02:01:46:22
And isn’t there also a misunderstanding of the Trinity and the Blessed Virgin comes in?

00:01:46:24 – 02:01:48:17
I don’t know.

00:01:48:19 – 02:02:03:03
What the thought process was or how they interpreted this, but the word Trinity is not even used in the Quran. It says, don’t say that. God is the third of three. So the things that we.

00:02:03:03 – 02:02:04:27
Believe God.

00:02:05:00 – 02:02:23:24
Like the father, is one third God, Jesus is another third. And Mary is because, yeah, there’s a quote that Jesus says that I never said to worship me, and my mother is God’s name. But then it also says that there is a spirit.

00:02:23:27 – 02:02:28:06
So maybe there’s like a fourth person involved. It doesn’t get it right. Like there’s some.

00:02:28:06 – 02:02:47:18
Confusion and I think what happened was like, whoever wrote the Koran, because I actually don’t think Muhammad wrote it, they just threw it out altogether. They’re like, I don’t know what’s going on with the Christians, but obviously what they’re believing is not right. So just not think about it. Yeah. And they didn’t even ask a Christian.

00:02:47:21 – 02:02:57:01
It is interesting, though, that Islam arose within an historian, culture in which Christ is thought to be subdivide in exactly.

00:02:57:03 – 02:03:18:29
I would say Islam. I don’t even think Islam is like another religion. The heresy of heresies. Yeah, that’s what I call it. At least it’s the last great heresy left. Okay, as it’s the story in Islam, like on steroids, Yeah. And I think we have to stop viewing Islam as another religion. We have to start viewing it as a heresy.

00:03:18:29 – 02:03:41:04
That has to be like. There needs to be like some type of council. I know if it’s like a church council, there has to be a gathering of Christians saying this is a heresy that needs to be stopped, and a Sabine historicism is an Arianism. Was Gnosticism like this is destroying like the image of Christianity. We can’t keep viewing it as another religion.

00:03:41:06 – 02:04:03:12
Yeah, I mean, what’s the difference? Because I could see Christians have obviously gotten together and denounced Muhammad as a false prophet. And, Islam is a false religion. That doesn’t mean there aren’t true elements. There are true elements in all religions, but it’s true. But so what what what’s the advantage in dismissing or rejecting Islam as a heresy instead of merely another religion?

00:04:03:14 – 02:04:04:24
I think it brings it closer to home.

00:04:04:24 – 02:04:05:12
Okay.

00:04:05:14 – 02:04:15:13
I think it makes it makes people realize how like, this has to be done now. And when we think of other religions, we think of like other cultures that, like.

00:04:15:18 – 02:04:16:05
Buddhism.

00:04:16:05 – 02:04:30:09
Evolved on its own. It’s very unique. And God couldn’t reach them because they never really knew Jesus. Right? But when we think of heresies, we think of gotcha individuals who purposely twisted the Christian faith. Yeah.

00:04:30:12 – 02:04:30:19
You know.

00:04:30:19 – 02:04:31:09
And.

00:04:31:11 – 02:04:51:09
And it really does just sort of simplify the playing field. It’s like, all right, we have these eastern sort of philosophies. We have Judaism, which finds its fulfillment in Christianity. That’s it. And then we have a Christian heresy called Islam or Muhammad ism. We have other Christian heresies as well, Nestorian ism, etc. but.

00:04:51:09 – 02:04:51:23
That’s the biggest.

00:04:51:23 – 02:04:52:12
One, really.

00:04:52:12 – 02:05:00:16
Christianity’s said like, that’s you, that’s the religion. You get to choose that or you get to choose Judaism. But I mean, why would you say fulfillment.

00:05:00:18 – 02:05:02:10
Muslim to even want you to convert? So there you go.

00:05:02:11 – 02:05:13:13
They don’t. Which makes me want them more. The more that’s a joke. They like the girl who doesn’t even want you to like her. But yeah, then you’ve got just this heresy of Islam. Yeah.

00:05:13:15 – 02:05:27:22
So that’s why I don’t view it as another religion, because they, they also think we worship the same God. Yeah. Like Buddhists don’t think that we worship the same god. Don’t even think there’s a god. Hindus are not saying Vishnu and Christ are the same person. Yeah, most of them.

00:05:27:22 – 02:05:38:18
And then I’m, I, I’d say I, I’d be happy saying we worship the same God as the Muslims. Can I, can I share why? I don’t know how disgusted you are with me at this point.

00:05:38:18 – 02:05:40:18
Not disgusted, but yeah.

00:05:40:20 – 02:06:00:26
Well, first of all, it would seem that the Catechism indicates as much. But but here he would be my reasoning, and I’m open to changing my mind on this. So it would actually be more convenient for me if I did. Well, what is God? Well, what if I say, well, God created the universe. He’s not the universe.

00:06:00:28 – 02:06:24:02
He’s something independent of the universe, which created the universe. If the Muslim believes this. Yes. Yeah, right. So I also I believe in that God too. Okay. I and I just think that the Muslim believes perversions about God and falsities about God that the Christian doesn’t. Yeah. So what’s wrong with that.

00:06:24:04 – 02:06:26:29
I don’t need anything wrong with yeah.

00:06:27:02 – 02:06:45:08
I, I sometimes I mean again I really am open, I don’t want to lead anyone astray here because, but it just seems to me that I think sometimes the Christian wishes to distance himself from the Muslim, and rightly so. And they think, well, the way to do that is to say, well, the Muslims are worshiping something else and.

00:06:45:13 – 02:06:46:18

00:06:46:21 – 02:06:48:11
Okay. Let me think about this.

00:06:48:13 – 02:07:12:15
Let me say one more thing and then I’ll have you refute me. Okay. If you wish. Here’s the analogy I use. I suppose an atheist picks up a book on natural philosophy or natural theology and they don’t believe in the existence of God. And then I find this book and it has, you know, let’s say William, then Craig’s five proofs, the existence of God, the Kalam argument, and so on.

00:07:12:15 – 02:07:37:07
And they get through it, and they’ve got a few more chapters to go on. The historicity of Christ and the resurrection and the truth. So they’re about to get there, but they haven’t yet. But after they’ve read those first four arguments that just make the case for basic theism, they shut their book and go, I believe, I think if we’re willing to say that that person believes in God, even though they have not yet accepted Christ or the Trinity, we would say, well, they have a perverted view of God.

00:07:37:07 – 02:07:55:04
Perhaps, or an insufficient view of God, but we’d be probably willing to go, that’s awesome that you believe in God. I believe in God. Two we’re talking about the same thing the creator and sustainer of the universe. We just haven’t fleshed that out to a full blown Christian theism. So yeah, what’s what’s wrong with my view? Do you think instead.

00:07:55:10 – 02:07:56:12
Of limits, the.

00:07:56:12 – 02:07:57:09
Limit of what?

00:07:57:16 – 02:08:00:14
Oh, what God is like like whether.

00:08:00:17 – 02:08:00:19
A.

00:08:00:19 – 02:08:05:09
Mormon will say that they believe in God, but I don’t tend to believe in the same God as we do.

00:08:05:10 – 02:08:06:10
Yeah, that’s a good.

00:08:06:10 – 02:08:08:01
Point, because that God’s created.

00:08:08:08 – 02:08:27:00
Can I. Yeah. Let me try to think that through. Yeah. Well that would be a test. That would I mean, right now thinking this through and being willing to change my mind, it would seem to me that I have more in common with the Muslim and the Mormon, because the Mormon believes that God was once a man and was in fact created, and is one among many gods that we are obligated to worship.

00:08:27:00 – 02:08:44:16
This one God, they would say. And yet he was once a man like we are who possess the godhood. I mean, just if I isolate that claim and I look at the claim of the Muslim who says that God is eternal and all powerful and created the world and is separate from the world, just those two isolated claims.

00:08:44:19 – 02:08:48:04
I’m, I’m like more and I have more in common with the Muslim than the Mormon.

00:08:48:07 – 02:09:11:12
I think we have more in common with the Muslim. Yeah, I do, but we have to understand why Islam was created. Islam was created to basically denounce Christianity. The whole Koran talks about why Christians are wrong about Jesus. Yeah, and throw some shade to the Jews as well. Because why not?

00:09:11:14 – 02:09:17:03
Because you. Do you believe the Jews worship the same God as Christians? It’s just they have an insufficient view of God. Don’t you?

00:09:17:05 – 02:09:21:20
That’s a very interesting question. And I’ll say the the jury’s out.

00:09:21:20 – 02:09:23:25
Yeah. I appreciate the epistemic humility.

00:09:23:25 – 02:09:24:12
I don’t know.

00:09:24:14 – 02:09:27:08
Yeah, but that would be my that would be my position. Until I’m proven otherwise.

00:09:27:08 – 02:09:28:16
I’m more I’m more.

00:09:28:16 – 02:09:31:05
Acceptable to it now than I was before.

00:09:31:05 – 02:09:55:19
Like I would go as far as to say that Islam, I’m very open to it being demonically inspired. And even a sort of demonic mind virus on the earth. I’m okay with that. Okay. But I think I can say that and also say that the sincere Muslim right, has mistaken and perverted views about God and our blessed Lord Jesus Christ.

00:09:55:22 – 02:09:58:25
But I can accept that he believes in God if he tells me that you’re.

00:09:58:25 – 02:10:12:16
Talking about Islam and a muslim, because I do think Muslims in general believe in the same God. Yeah, I don’t think Islam is the same God. Okay, I in the origins of Islam are from quote unquote a different God.

00:10:12:18 – 02:10:13:05
I see.

00:10:13:06 – 02:10:15:04
I think I, I 100% and.

00:10:15:04 – 02:10:16:27
By different you mean like a demonic.

00:10:17:03 – 02:10:18:23
Fallen angel due on experience.

00:10:18:24 – 02:10:21:08
Yeah, yeah, I would I’d be open to that.

00:10:21:10 – 02:10:29:03
I think I think it’s a mixture of humans and demonic spirits. Whereas for like Mormonism, I think it’s just humans.

00:10:29:05 – 02:10:47:11
That’s why it’s always been fascinating to me that the, the, the woke leftists are like weird bedfellows with the Muslims. That’s not always struck you as odd like that. These LGBT people or people who think they’re animals are like all about the poor, innocent Muslim. While denouncing the Christian I.

00:10:47:13 – 02:10:49:04
We used to use it like we.

00:10:49:04 – 02:11:04:24
Want to say Muslims or not anymore. Like we use it as like a weapon, almost like we kind of knew what to do. Like we just be like, we’re brown, we’re the minority. Hey, the Christians, they colonized us. Don’t you remember the French when they took over Lebanon?

00:11:04:29 – 02:11:08:22
What about the Crusades? Like we just say these, like, little like words.

00:11:08:24 – 02:11:10:09
And it works.

00:11:10:12 – 02:11:12:03
And Muslim imams.

00:11:12:03 – 02:11:18:10
They know what they’re doing. Yeah, and they know how to get the whole goal to take over, no matter what I remember. So if.

00:11:18:10 – 02:11:20:01
We can use the left.

00:11:20:03 – 02:11:26:15
To take over the the entire Western Hemisphere, that’s. So be it. Yeah, it’s actually ingenious.

00:11:26:15 – 02:11:32:01
There’s this real hatred of Western civilization that you see, and I think both Islam on the left.

00:11:32:07 – 02:11:44:08
Which is ironic because at least in the Middle East, Arab like, we hate America while they watched their videos on their iPhone and then talk about how, like they love watching like Kanye West saying.

00:11:44:08 – 02:11:46:19
I don’t know, like just random, like everything about the West.

00:11:46:19 – 02:12:00:24
They want, but not the actual West. And it’s very interesting how that works, how you want, you can have your cake and eat it too. You can have the goodness of Western society without the Western society.

00:12:00:27 – 02:12:04:03
So yeah this has been awesome. Thank you so much for making this trip.

00:12:04:09 – 02:12:04:15
Yeah.

00:12:04:15 – 02:12:16:23
No problem for sharing your story. It’s really powerful. We have some questions from our local supporters of which you’re one I am one, so you could ask yourself a question. Technically.

00:12:16:25 – 02:12:18:14
Why am I so good looking? Yeah.

00:12:18:17 – 02:12:34:28
Like that. That’s a great question. If only the questions I’m about to ask you as a softball. Let’s have a look here. Katie did it. Says, what do you feel Muslims get right about family and roles of men and women?

00:12:35:01 – 02:12:58:20
Honestly, the male versus female brain, I think, Islam knows how men think and knows that a man like, you know, the saying goes, a man thinks about sex every six seconds and and knows that very well. And he also knows what a woman wants. No one wants someone to protect her. Like. And that’s why there’s this huge gender role.

00:12:58:23 – 02:13:14:08
It doesn’t mean that’s a good thing, but it just means the way the religion is created is obviously had a lot of thought process about how men and women interact and from like both from like social and cardinal and political everything.

00:13:14:11 – 02:13:27:18
In in your experience of interacting with Muslim families and being a part of one, did you see things that you thought, oh, that’s that’s really cool and Christians should learn from this? Oh no.

00:13:27:20 – 02:13:29:22
Yes. Modesty. Yeah.

00:13:29:23 – 02:13:32:22
Like but see this.

00:13:32:24 – 02:13:38:16
Yeah. No, but it sounds like what you’re saying is whatever the we can learn from the Muslims is already in our religion. We’re just going to bang it.

00:13:38:21 – 02:13:39:12
No we’re not a being.

00:13:39:13 – 02:13:40:23
Yeah, yeah. But okay.

00:13:40:23 – 02:13:57:07
Everything from Islam, it was not from Islam but I think exists in Christianity. Yeah, but it’s lacking, at least in the last 100 years of Christianity. Yeah. So modesty at church. Yeah. I would never see a muslim walk in to a mass with a tank top.

00:13:57:07 – 02:13:57:25
Right, right.

00:13:57:26 – 02:13:59:06
Are like shorts.

00:13:59:09 – 02:14:00:07

00:14:00:09 – 02:14:08:26
I see that at mass like traveling all the time. And obviously that’s like a more of a North American thing. Like you do that in Italy if people kick you out. Yeah.

00:14:08:29 – 02:14:10:18
But the way that.

00:14:10:20 – 02:14:18:17
That space is treated, even though there’s nothing sacramental occurring like, yeah, it’s true. Like, no, you can’t just walk in here like looking like that.

00:14:18:20 – 02:14:19:20
You can’t really walk around.

00:14:19:20 – 02:14:26:25
Like that anyway. Like, there are rules from how much a dress and how women should dress, and they’re just the way you live life with modesty. So. Yeah.

00:14:26:26 – 02:14:40:04
Yeah, that’s that’s great. Thanks. Jay Taylor says when discussing faith with a muslim, what are the best couple talking points to get them thinking without it coming across like an attack?

00:14:40:06 – 02:15:04:08
I would say the first thing you do is actually something you shouldn’t do is that never bring up personal experiences or emotions. So I talked about how you should evangelize different people in different ways. So when you’re evangelizing again to the Mormons always use emotions and faith and like feelings. Islam doesn’t like that. No one cares. If you were in adoration and you felt good.

00:15:04:10 – 02:15:27:22
Now we want to know how is it logical that a man could be God? How is it logical that there could be a Trinity? Like Islam doesn’t care if you feel happy singing your songs. It wants like Muslims want to have logic in their religion. Yeah, and I guess you have to use philosophy almost. They will really respect you if you start using philosophical arguments for God.

00:15:27:22 – 02:15:33:23
Good. But they will lose interest quickly. If you say, I feel good at mass.

00:15:33:23 – 02:15:37:18
Yeah, I mean, I do too. I feel like that I lose interest in people. Tell me the.

00:15:37:18 – 02:15:38:22
Same.

00:15:38:24 – 02:15:53:15
I mean, I guess I would say I lose interest if people tell me that. As if that alone is what should convince me, I can see why it convinces them. You know, you had this experience, but experiences by their nature are subjective. But if I’m to come on board, I need a reason.

00:15:53:17 – 02:15:56:14
That’s probably my biggest issue with a lot of.

00:15:56:16 – 02:16:00:19
Is often act like that. They talk about this burning in the bosom like, you know.

00:16:00:22 – 02:16:05:12
And I can’t stand it because I’m like, that’s awesome. Now, why do you believe Joseph Smith’s a.

00:16:05:12 – 02:16:06:18
Prophet like like, yeah.

00:16:06:18 – 02:16:23:12
Yeah, yeah. Because yeah, again, I think it’s legitimate for someone who’s had that experience and it’s connected to a particular faith tradition to justify that. I do think one can be justified in that way, epistemic through religious experience. I’m not denying that.

00:16:23:14 – 02:16:24:04

00:16:24:07 – 02:16:27:19
But yeah. Yeah. Okay. So rigorous kind of philosophical.

00:16:27:19 – 02:16:29:24
Philosophical discussions with us.

00:16:29:27 – 02:16:47:06
Okay. Titus two says, is the acceptance of polygamy within Islam a barrier for conversion to Christianity? How should the church resolve converts who have multiple wives, quote unquote.

00:16:47:08 – 02:16:49:14
Converts have multiple wives.

00:16:49:16 – 02:16:58:20
That’d be interesting. Like, imagine if you were married to like quote unquote to three women and then you became a Christian, I guess the you have to give up the sex. Yeah. Just to.

00:16:58:23 – 02:17:00:00
Imagine they have to pick.

00:17:00:02 – 02:17:01:08
One, two. Sorry.

00:17:01:10 – 02:17:02:15
Yeah, I don’t know.

00:17:02:17 – 02:17:05:06
You’re being voted off the island of the island.

00:17:05:08 – 02:17:12:22
I guess the marriage will just be annulled. All of them? Yeah. They just. Again, you’re the pick one. I’ve never thought about that, but, I mean, it’s interesting.

00:17:12:22 – 02:17:23:06
I have no idea. Monica says, is violence intrinsic to Islam or an extremist sex abusing the tenets of the religion?

00:17:23:09 – 02:17:44:16
Violence is 100% intrinsic to Islam. Like one of the last phrases that Muhammad said is, I’ll say it. An Arabic verse on birth and a quarter on us. Hot Layla on the law that I have been commanded to fight the world till everyone says there is no God but Allah. So the last thing he said to his followers was the fight.

00:17:44:19 – 02:17:51:22
It is. It is 100% intrinsic to the religion. And the same way love is 100% part of Christianity.

00:17:51:25 – 02:17:58:16
Okay. Ben says, what are some things that Catholics misunderstand about Islam?

00:17:58:18 – 02:18:25:13
I think people in general, but Catholics as well misunderstand what the Koran is like. The Koran isn’t like beginning, middle, end. This is it’s not like the story of Genesis and Moses. And then the prophets. It’s like someone’s subconscious rant. So it will go on to build it. We’ll talk about how Adam’s created, and then we’ll talk about why Moses gave us the commandments, and then why you shouldn’t eat pork.

00:18:25:15 – 02:18:47:00
And by the way, you can have four wives also remember Moses. Yeah. He he also said, there’s this other commandment, and Jesus is a cool person, but is not God that there’s no order at all. And the most common phrase is, remember when, like we were in an audience like you remember when it was told to you by Joshua that did not go into the land until this happens?

00:18:47:03 – 02:19:06:15
I think we’re like, we’re part of the audience. So you can see that this Koran is from an oral culture, like they’re saying, these stories of people. And I don’t think most people realize that because Egypt don’t read the Koran or not just look into it, but the Koran is very different from the Bible. I wasn’t shocked by how organized the Bible is.

00:19:06:18 – 02:19:10:06
I almost seemed like it was like forged together to.

00:19:10:06 – 02:19:12:19
Like, convince someone it’s true. Like it didn’t seem like.

00:19:12:19 – 02:19:14:21
It came out naturally. So yeah.

00:19:14:23 – 02:19:32:29
Okay, Joe Ward asks. In theory, a muslim could believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, just not in the divinity of Christ. Is there any sort of sacrament tality in Islam? So maybe you want to take issue with his assumption, but his broader question is, is there any sort of sacramental reality.

00:19:33:01 – 02:20:07:00
The whole Islam’s like concept of Teilhard, like the oneness of God, would separate any being or substance being with God. So like Christ could not be part two, like the Eucharist anyway. God cannot be part of like anything he’s outside of that. And when it comes to like sacramental, I don’t think there’s anything sacramental. Like I was at a muslim wedding recently and it was my first Muslim wedding, actually, and I was in shock, maybe because it’s been like, I don’t know, eight, nine, ten years now since I left Islam.

00:20:07:03 – 02:20:22:09
But I wasn’t shocked by how legal it was. Like the Imam sat there. There was a two people, there was a three witness. It. And I was like, you want to marry her? You want to marry him? Okay. Sign here, sign here. You all three sign here. Awesome. You’re married and I got eyes next.

00:20:22:11 – 02:20:30:20
Like I was like, what? I was like, what is going on? Like, there’s no concept of the sacrament. It’s all legal. It’s all like a legal, like, say, when you.

00:20:30:20 – 02:20:46:18
Convert to Islam, to convert to Islam, all you need is to raise your right hand and say, there’s no God but Allah. Muhammad is prophet and two witnesses and you’re Muslim. So sacramental is not really a thing. Okay. Yeah.

00:20:46:20 – 02:20:52:04
Lisa asks how did you wrap your mind around the Trinity.

00:20:52:06 – 02:21:12:11
This is going to sound shocking. I’ve never had a problem with the Trinity. I have not once like you. When I was a muslim, I knew exactly what Christians meant when they were talking about the Trinity. They’re saying, like, the way I thought of it was like, okay, God’s in heaven. He came down, has a son, Jesus, and he lives in, in Christians as the Holy Spirit.

00:21:12:13 – 02:21:35:23
So it’s three distinct people, but it’s the same God. Awesome. I never had an issue with that anyone. The whole concept of God is love, where the father loves the son, the son loves the father, and that love is so powerful and precious that it’s the Holy Spirit in. I never had a problem. Okay? And I’m almost in shock that people do.

00:21:35:25 – 02:21:37:17
And like me, I may be. I mean.

00:21:37:17 – 02:21:48:22
It’s a mystery that we can’t understand fully. Sure, but. And it’s something we wouldn’t have arrived at through natural reason. It was revealed to us, but it was never a stumbling block for you as a muslim.

00:21:48:25 – 02:21:51:10
Is it a dogma that we could never reach it?

00:21:51:12 – 02:22:12:09
Well, I don’t know if it’s a dogma, but yeah, it’s but it’s taught by the First Vatican Council. Thomas Aquinas affirms it. Okay. That we wouldn’t know about the Trinity unless it was revealed to us. That’s why. I mean, there have been philosophers who’ve tried to argue that we can. No, I want to say it’s Saint Richard of someone, but I may was it doesn’t matter.

00:22:12:11 – 02:22:24:07
Who made the argument that love requires three people, three things, and one is the love. One is a lover. And I’m not saying that’s a bad analogy. I think it’s a good analogy. It’s just that, no, we can’t know that unless it was revealed to us. Yeah.

00:22:24:09 – 02:22:29:24
That’s very that could be true. Yeah. But just never was an issue. And I understood it.

00:22:29:26 – 02:22:52:03
If people were interested. I don’t know what you think about this, but, the way I like to talk about the Trinity, my children, if they ask. Excuse me. What does it mean to say God is one, but God is three persons? I would say, okay. A statue. I have a statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary over there.

00:22:52:06 – 02:23:12:06
Right. That’s a being in philosophy. We talk about things, existing things as beings. Okay? This is a being which is zero persons. You are a being who is one person. God is a being who is three persons. Does that make sense? Not really. Good. Yeah, but that’ll do. I find that right. Yeah. I just think that’s a helpful.

00:23:12:06 – 02:23:17:06
What I think as soon as you start getting into, like three leaf clovers or.

00:23:17:08 – 02:23:18:06
I don’t like that. Yeah.

00:23:18:07 – 02:23:25:17
Nice gas and liquid you like. Now you’re venturing into heresy accidentally. And you might mean. Well, yeah, yeah.

00:23:25:17 – 02:23:31:13
I see that too. Off. Different people are like. They use our analogy, but the analogy always ends up being like a fourth century heresy.

00:23:31:13 – 02:23:40:03
Yeah, yeah. Well, how have you found have you, have you found a particular way helpful in explaining to Muslims the Trinity or.

00:23:40:06 – 02:23:48:01
The best way I can see it is so God is word his breath.

00:23:48:01 – 02:23:48:13
Right.

00:23:48:18 – 02:23:53:18
And like himself intellect or his intellect. Okay. Sure.

00:23:53:21 – 02:23:55:06
And when God.

00:23:55:10 – 02:24:17:16
So in the corona says, God said be. And it is so God uses his word to create. But the word obviously has to exist before the being for it to be used. And while he’s using that in the same way that when we talk, our breath comes out, God, spirit floats on the world, okay? Creating it so all of them are acting as one.

00:24:17:23 – 02:24:32:03
There’s three things occurring the the, the being or the thing. The forces of the intellect, the word being spoke and the breath, the spirit going with the word to create. Okay. And that seems to always make a lot of sense to Muslim.

00:24:32:03 – 02:24:42:21
Okay. Good. Thank you. Final question here from Ryan Pin Koski. What can Catholics learn from Muslim devotionals and prayer life?

00:24:42:24 – 02:24:45:10
We got to step it up like big time.

00:24:45:12 – 02:24:47:22
Like we have the liturgy, the.

00:24:47:22 – 02:25:16:23
Hours, like the five times the priests and religious orders. Pray. Yeah. But the lay Muslim does that on a daily basis. We complain when the mass is more than an hour. I remember as a muslim, I wanted the Friday prayer to go for like four. I was like, let’s do it. Let’s keep going. And because it’s almost like a military, like you’re like, yeah, it’s a very manly religion.

00:25:16:23 – 02:25:25:18
Yeah. You want to like, go out in like, and if you’re a peaceful Muslim guy and fight something like, do something where.

00:25:25:21 – 02:25:28:04
Christianity has kind of become like.

00:25:28:06 – 02:25:34:08
We’re going to tell you what we’ve done for you. And then you guys go home and then and we’ll see you next on there.

00:25:34:08 – 02:25:36:27
And then if you feel called, maybe stay.

00:25:36:27 – 02:25:38:16
In our father before you go to bed.

00:25:38:19 – 02:25:40:24
Like we have we have our tools.

00:25:40:24 – 02:26:01:13
We have our rosary, we have the liturgy of the hours. We have, daily mass adoration. They’re always there if you if you live in like most cities, even if you don’t, you can spend 30 minutes a day. I think every individual can spend 30 minutes a day in prayer. Unless you’re working a job that’s super intense, you can do ten minutes a day.

00:26:01:16 – 02:26:05:26
Yeah, I don’t think there’s ever an excuse not to be as devout. Yeah, we.

00:26:05:26 – 02:26:27:24
Need Christians to be way more hardcore. I remember being at New York, and my wife and I were leaving the airport. Or we’re leaving New York to go back to here, or wherever we were living. And, we, we drove past, you know, how there’s a bunch of buildings on the way to the airport for, like, rental car places and stuff, and there was a muslim outside doing his prayers and frustrations.

00:26:27:27 – 02:26:33:18
I just thought, Christians, you could be such a witness to the world. And many are. Yeah, many.

00:26:33:19 – 02:26:33:27
Many.

00:26:33:27 – 02:26:35:23
Are. But we need to step it up.

00:26:35:23 – 02:26:40:28
But it seems like there’s more Muslims that are devout and there are Christians already. Well, yeah, by significant numbers.

00:26:40:28 – 02:26:44:16
Yeah. We shouldn’t let the Muslims put us to shame in their fasting and in their prayers.

00:26:44:16 – 02:26:52:29
Because from the Muslim perspective, like, why would they join this faith that tells me nothing to do, like lent, for example.

00:26:53:02 – 02:26:54:26
Give up sweets? You’re kidding me.

00:26:54:28 – 02:27:00:05
I almost laughed when someone said they’re going to give up. What was it?

00:27:00:06 – 02:27:03:19
Complaining? Okay, that one I can’t even I can’t even.

00:27:03:19 – 02:27:04:20
Comprehend it when someone’s.

00:27:04:20 – 02:27:06:09
Like, I’m going to give up swearing.

00:27:06:09 – 02:27:07:05
For lent. And I was like.

00:27:07:07 – 02:27:08:10
Maybe just stop swearing.

00:27:08:14 – 02:27:11:00
Maybe we give up sin always. Yeah.

00:27:11:03 – 02:27:11:18
Yeah.

00:27:11:21 – 02:27:14:12
God stoops to conquer and God bless you. But yeah, yeah.

00:27:14:14 – 02:27:16:26
And you’re like, I’m going to not eat meat.

00:27:16:28 – 02:27:22:14
On Ash Wednesday. And I think I’ve done it. And I was like, yeah, there’s still 40 more days afterwards.

00:27:22:15 – 02:27:25:14
Yeah. But like a muslim sees that and they see.

00:27:25:14 – 02:27:30:17
Us saying, I’m fasting while I’m eating my Snickers bar. And they’re like.

00:27:30:19 – 02:27:33:08
This is a joke. Yeah. Meanwhile, they.

00:27:33:08 – 02:27:35:00
Haven’t eaten or drink in 18 hours.

00:27:35:00 – 02:27:52:27
Well God bless. I think, honestly, here’s who we should look to to bless us. Roman Catholics say it’s the cops. And many of the Orthodox, they really do. Many of them put the Roman Catholic Church to shame. They do, in how they how they take serious the fasts. You know.

00:27:52:29 – 02:27:55:22
The Coptic. Are they. They’re vegan for nine months of the year.

00:27:55:22 – 02:27:59:27
I need a cop on my show. I need a good Coptic priest on my show.

00:28:00:00 – 02:28:10:18
I love the Coptic. They are amazing people. And I’ve never encountered one. You know, they don’t think we’re like, fully like in communion. Yeah, but they’ve never treated.

00:28:10:18 – 02:28:12:21
No, like I’m.

00:28:12:21 – 02:28:15:03
Like a heretic or. Yeah, like a paper.

00:28:15:06 – 02:28:34:05
There’s a lot of, I fine whenever I’m. And I don’t know if it’s just because they have not yet seen the sort of influx of Protestant converts than, say, Greek or Russian Orthodox have. Maybe that’s the case. I’m sure they’re about to, but I don’t find hostility from them. No, I do find hostility from my Orthodox brethren.

00:28:34:05 – 02:28:37:18
But it’s almost always when they’re a Protestant convert.

00:28:37:21 – 02:28:38:20
I’ve noticed. Yeah.

00:28:38:21 – 02:28:41:03
I’ve noticed, I’m not sure what it is.

00:28:41:03 – 02:28:53:03
If I find, like, the regular guy who’s been orthodox his whole life, he loves me as a brother. He’s Catholic brother. And the Coptic seem like that to me. The people who seem really pissed off with me, they were Protestant five minutes ago.

00:28:53:05 – 02:28:54:21
It’s interesting. And usually that’s just.

00:28:54:21 – 02:29:02:25
Been my experience. I’m sure there are great Protestant converts and there are some thorny Orthodox lifers, but that’s just been my.

00:29:02:28 – 02:29:17:11
Yeah, 100%. But that’s also been like my experience, too, with like, Protestants who convert to Catholicism, even when they convert to this idea of Catholicism. It’s like, what do you mean you don’t pray your rosary in like, Latin from the fifth century?

00:29:17:11 – 02:29:18:02
It’s like.

00:29:18:04 – 02:29:43:11
Shards of glass on your knees, you loser. No, there is a there is a tiresome tendency on the part of converts to think of their newfound faith as a sort of Eden without corruption or snakes, from which they sneer at their separated brethren. And it’s it’s it’s it’s understandable. Like, congratulations. You know, I understand what’s happening. You found this certainty in this faith.

00:29:43:15 – 02:29:55:00
Glad, but it’s a bit obnoxious. I find it is. Yeah. People who are kind of mature in the faith don’t take that sort of patronizing approach. They tend to be hard on themselves and gentle on others.

00:29:55:03 – 02:29:58:05
And I, I was guilty of it, like the first few months.

00:29:58:05 – 02:29:58:21
Yeah. Me too.

00:29:58:24 – 02:30:03:17
Everyone is. Yeah. Like not to bring up something that you’ve done, but.

00:30:03:19 – 02:30:05:03
I least you said this story.

00:30:05:03 – 02:30:12:06
Once. How when you first had your conversion, you went to this party. Oh my God, and told them what Jesus had said. Knowing you recited the Nicene Creed.

00:30:12:06 – 02:30:13:10
That was my girlfriend.

00:30:13:13 – 02:30:14:18
Oh, is it your girlfriend? Yeah.

00:30:14:22 – 02:30:33:09
My my son, my child, my children. Love this story. We were sitting in my living room and she laughed at me, and I recited the Creed at her. And then I stood up and left. And what was funny is she was in my house and. Oh yeah. Yeah. No. And so it’s like, yeah. All right. So that energy and that enthusiasm.

00:30:33:09 – 02:30:42:16
Good. You should have it. But also there needs to be a prudence. Like prudence is that virtue which enables us to act in accord with right reason. So that’s important. We need that.

00:30:42:18 – 02:30:50:07
And I’ve definitely done that with my family. And like my friends from high school after my conversion, where I just wonder and I was like.

00:30:50:10 – 02:30:56:23
I have like the cure for everything. I gotta sit them down and force them to take the cure. And yeah, but like the first month.

00:30:56:23 – 02:30:59:03
Me to say what’s wrong with this mental thing is freaking me out.

00:30:59:03 – 02:31:14:00
Dude, back to the Creed to my girlfriend thing. Think about this. This girl has never heard the Creed. She never went to church a day in her life. So I just look at her and I go, I believe in God. And at that point she’s like, oh, he believes in God. Oh, he’s still going. And then it just goes on for like 3 or 5 minutes.

00:31:14:00 – 02:31:15:10
And she for long.

00:31:15:10 – 02:31:18:28
Since she was terrified. Yeah, yeah. God have mercy on me.

00:31:19:00 – 02:31:20:07
No. That’s crazy.

00:31:20:10 – 02:31:28:14
But again, I think that passion is beautiful in a way. Yeah. It’s better to have it and then have it directed than to not have it. Nothing to direct.

00:31:28:14 – 02:31:31:11
It makes a funny story when that person becomes a Christian.

00:31:31:13 – 02:31:40:09
Yeah. Yeah I hope so. I hope I didn’t get in the way. But listen, thank you for calling on my show and sharing your story. Tell people where they can learn more about you.

00:31:40:11 – 02:31:43:06
Yeah. So Instagram, it’s, it’s of Arabia.

00:31:43:06 – 02:31:45:13
So how do you spell that?

00:31:45:16 – 02:31:49:10
Is h off Arabia.

00:31:49:13 – 02:31:50:06
Yeah. Ish of.

00:31:50:06 – 02:31:55:05
Okay. And then my YouTube channel has the same handle. Okay. Please.

00:31:55:07 – 02:32:00:21
If I forget to put it in the YouTube channel, please remind me. Move heaven and earth to tell me. And I will get it in there immediately.

00:32:00:21 – 02:32:25:14
Okay. Yeah. And, my name is Ishmael Yusuf. So it’s Ismail. Y o xxv. So you’ll find me on YouTube or wherever, and I just make videos every few months just trying to talk about Islam and why I don’t think it’s from God, basically. And right now it’s been pretty successful, at least on people have taken my videos, put it on TikTok, and those ones have gone viral, really.

00:32:25:14 – 02:32:29:06
But I don’t not use TikTok. I don’t want to even look at it for garbage.

00:32:29:06 – 02:32:32:13
I, I also use it, but I have someone else do the posting.

00:32:32:15 – 02:32:33:14
That’s the best way to do it.

00:32:33:16 – 02:32:35:11
I gotta once I get having somebody.

00:32:35:11 – 02:32:39:02
Else do my work. Yeah, you go in there and put stuff in there and I want to have a look.

00:32:39:09 – 02:32:42:23
But someone messaged me once, they’re like, yeah, I saw you on TikTok. I was like, I don’t use it.

00:32:42:26 – 02:32:44:07
And they’re like, oh, see, I’ll show you.

00:32:44:07 – 02:32:47:27
It’s like 65,000 views. I’m like, okay, well, glory to God. Yeah, glory to God.

00:32:48:02 – 02:32:49:16
Yeah, yeah. All right. Thanks a lot.

00:32:49:16 – 02:32:50:18
No problem. Thank you so much.