Freemasonry Is Not the Good Ol’ Boys Club You Thought It Was

Dr. William (Bill) Schnoebelen, a former 33rd-degree Freemason, reveals the darkest secrets of Freemasonry in this 75-minute testimony interview. He reveals that he was lured into the occult by a Catholic priest at the seminary where he was studying, and later discovered Freemasonry. He openly shares his experiences and discusses everything from secret temple rituals and hidden ranks to literally selling his soul to the devil.

It all began to change when a sweet Christian lady told him she’d be praying for him in Jesus’s name — and actually did.

The video is long — and obviously dark in places — but his testimony is one that you won’t want to miss. Schnoebelen may be the only person alive who has firsthand experience with these things who is willing to talk about them. Listen as he drags the darkness into the overpowering light.

Editor’s Note: The transcript that follows was automatically generated and lightly edited, so please be aware there could be typos or other small errors. The Stream is working toward a transcription service that does fast, accurate, and reliable work; thank you in advance for your patience!

00:00:00:00 – 00:00:25:21
I was like the youngest guy in the land by 20 years. And this guy comes forward and he says, we’re going to lead you through this. Oh, but it’s this long involved and ultimately blood curdling hopes. But none of these men understand is that deep down inside, there’s this very dark, evil energy. I would go off to these guys that have been in the Scottish Rite forever, and I’d say, okay, I’m now a sublime prince with the royal secret.

00:00:25:21 – 00:00:38:13
And so what’s the royal secret? And again, this is something that probably only one of the thousand Masons in America understands. Is it the royal secret?

00:00:38:15 – 00:00:55:15
Hello and welcome back to The Innermost Files podcast, where I interview regular people with incredible stories. Today’s guest is someone who has explored the darkest levels of spirituality. One of them being Freemasonry. He became a 33rd degree. Mason was part of high level secret societies, and he is not afraid to share what he’s not supposed to talk about.

00:00:55:20 – 00:01:17:22
So I took this opportunity to ask him as much as I could in the limited time that we had. No matter how much you know or don’t know about Freemasonry, I can almost guarantee you that you’ll learn a lot from this interview as everything that is shared here is in some way related to it. Get ready to have your mind blown by Mr. Bell’s Netherland, as he shares a dark journey that him and his wife took, and the unsettling things that they uncovered along the way.

00:01:18:00 – 00:01:49:19
When I got to college, and again, I wanted to be a priest, I went, this is a minor seminary college, Marist College. At the time it was a minor seminary. It isn’t anymore. I had a priest in my theology class who had a doctorate in theology, and he was teaching a course in Christology because, again, I was wanting to be a priest, and he took me aside and he said, if you want to be a priest in the Catholic Church, it’s taught, you know.

00:01:49:21 – 00:02:05:21
Sacerdote was asked, Altos Christus, the priest is another Christ. So if you want to be like he’s. And he says to me, do you want to be like Christ? And I said, well, of course, doesn’t every Christian want to be like Christ? He said, if you want to be like Christ, you need to do what Christ did.

00:02:06:02 – 00:02:31:12
And again, that made sense. And again, you know, nowadays we kind of become suspicious about priests. But this is like 1968. And a priest is like God. I mean, whatever the priest said, that was it, you know, and he said, well, if you want to be like Christ, you need to do what he did. And he went to the East and studied with the gurus in India.

00:02:31:14 – 00:02:51:22
He went and studied with the lamas in Tibet. He went to Egypt and studied with the magicians there. That’s how he was able to do to raise the dead, to walk on water and do all these miracles. So he says, what you need to do is you need to start studying the occult. And this is a priest telling me this.

00:02:52:00 – 00:03:20:00
And so I thought, okay, now mind you, you know, this was obviously decades before there was an internet. I mean, there was a little bookstore downtown. And I went there and I found a few scattering books on, like, the occult. And I found this book that was called, diary of a Witch by Sybil Leech. And she was one of the very first, which is to Thomas story, come out of the broom closet.

00:03:20:00 – 00:03:43:22
She was a British woman, and, she was a medium. And, anyhow, I read the book and she was asserting. And the book that witches were not evil, that this was an ancient pagan mystery religion, among other things. She claimed that Jesus was a witch, and as 12 apostles were his coven along with their wives. You know?

00:03:44:00 – 00:04:07:21
So I kind of bought into that, and I wrote to I found out about this guy Alexander’s, who was the supposedly king of the witches over in London. I sent him a letter. This is around 1968, 69, and, his wife sent me back a thing. Okay, here’s a coven in Rockford, Illinois, which is about 90 minutes from Dubuque.

00:04:07:23 – 00:04:34:18
I went there and I got initiated as a witch, and then later on, I hooked up with, an Alexandrian coven in Boston, and I was made a witch high priest, started covens in, first of all, on the block where I was, and then moved to Milwaukee because there was a fellow there who, had an occult bookstore, you know, because real life is a huge city.

00:04:34:20 – 00:04:40:03
And, he said, I’ve got all these people that want to become witches. Can you come and teach them.

00:04:40:05 – 00:04:47:18
When we’re talking about, like you being in a covenant, do you doing the witchcraft? I just want to make sure that we don’t skip over that part. Like, what kind of witchcraft are we talking about? Because I, you know, there’s.

00:04:47:18 – 00:05:19:15
A lot of it was it was okay. Witchcraft originally, you know, the kind of publicly available witchcraft was originally started by Gerald Gardner, and he came out and witchcraft became legal in England. It was a crime until 1951. It was made legal and he claimed that all of this is disputed. But he claimed that he came in contact with the ancient covenant witches in a New Forest region of England.

00:05:19:17 – 00:05:44:06
They initiated him and then made him a high priest, and he went off and initiated other people. Then there’s this other bunch, this Alexander style. He also claims to have been initiated by, ancient line of witches by his grandmother. So those were the two main fountain heads of witchcraft in the 60s. Both were from England. Were both, you know, spread to America.

00:05:44:08 – 00:06:13:09
And it was white witchcraft. Both groups, that are rituals were virtually identical. And, but the Alexandrian group that I was in was more into ceremonial magic, which is like kind of if, you know, on like Protestantism, they have the distinction between high church and low church. Well, Alexandrian is more high church witchcraft, but we didn’t believe in the devil.

00:06:13:11 – 00:06:38:00
We didn’t think we were worshiping the devil. We thought we were worshiping a goddess of moon goddess and or foreign god. So it was like, dicey ism, if you will, to two deities. And, we don’t believe in demons. We just believe that it was all this nature in nature, airy fairy, you know, gathering herbs in the forest and dancing in the nude.

00:06:38:00 – 00:06:51:08
And, you know, it all sounds very innocent. Except there’s especially in the Alexandrian, right? There’s also some sex magic that’s involved. So does that kind of answer your question?

00:06:51:10 – 00:06:58:22
Yes, yes. Thank you for clarifying. I just wanted to make sure that we got that covered. So actually, let’s go back to the occult bookstore that you were talking about, and let’s pick up the story from there.

00:06:59:00 – 00:07:20:20
Well, so anyway, I mean, so we hooked up with this fellow in the basement of the store. We had all these classes. They were packed because there were all these people. And again, this was kind of this was 1972. You know, there was all these people kind of like crazy hippies, and they wanted to get into the occult magic and blah, blah, blah.

00:07:20:22 – 00:07:43:09
The other thing that happened at the same time is that we encountered this doll called Eli, who was a Grand Master Druid of North America. And Druids are a little bit different than witches. The sky’s the difference between being a Baptist and being a methodist. You know? And we were invited down to Arkansas, which is where this father lived.

00:07:43:09 – 00:08:13:12
He lived on top of a mountain. He had kind of a, what do you call it? Organic farm there. And we we went through the whole summer, got all this occult training. We were, you know, high priests, Ingrid ism. By the time we got done at one point. I understand this fellow that all in the occult bookstore, he was kind of, manipulative guy who was very, you know, he was older than me, very cunning.

00:08:13:14 – 00:08:33:12
He told me he took me aside and he said, you know, if you really want to understand real magic, you need to read this book. And he handed me The Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey. And I said, well, why would I want to read the Satanic Bible? Which is don’t believe in Satan? And he said, well, just read the book.

00:08:33:14 – 00:09:06:09
And his LaVey’s contention was that magic is really about Satan, but Satan is like an art type. He said. There is no real Satan, but it’s like an energy. Agregar an art type that you can draw upon. And it kind of made sense to me. And again, the devil was gradually pulling me in, like the old thing about the the camel getting its nose in an attempt before, you know, to kill camels in there.

00:09:06:11 – 00:09:35:02
So I wrote The Church of Satan, which at that time was in San Francisco. I became a member of First to Remember, and then later on I went through some exams and studies and I became a warlock, which was a second degree, member of the Church of Satan. And at this also, I should say this because this is critical, this this Eli guy, the grand Druid down in Arkansas, he gave us two words of advice.

00:09:35:04 – 00:10:09:16
First of all, he said, if you really want to understand Luciferian energy, you need to join the Free Masonic Order. And he himself was the 33rd to be Mason. He showed me his little certificate that he also told me that if you ever felt like we were in deep spiritual trouble, that I should join the Mormon church, because it was a church given and started by witches for witches that we could hang out in and pretend to be nice.

00:10:09:18 – 00:10:32:17
You know, you know, the image of the Mormon church that they’re straight, nice, wonderful, all American people that have happy families and white picket fences and, you know, all of that. But secretly, they believe almost the same doctrines of witches fully. And we can get into that if you want. But, anyhow, so he gave us that advice.

00:10:32:17 – 00:11:01:05
And again, this was in the early 70s. So I joined the Masonic Lodge, became a master mason at the same time as I was a Satanist and a witch, and only our inner circle of the witches that we by this time, we’ve initiated over 100 witches. And, only our inner circle knew that we were also Satanists.

00:11:01:07 – 00:11:22:19
We were continuing in this, and I finally figured out that there was a deeper level of Satanism, and I got in touch with some of them. But again, there was no internet. We had to do all this by mail and whatnot. And there was a group in Michigan called the order of the Black Rand, which is like more hardcore satanic stuff.

00:11:22:21 – 00:11:39:13
There is another group in Chicago called the Brotherhood, and I got involved with them because they were closer, because Milwaukee, just up the road about 90 miles from Chicago. And I got really I mean, I sold my soul to the devil. That’s how deep I got into this stuff.

00:11:39:15 – 00:11:59:00
Yeah. Before we actually get to that part, I want to make sure take some time to talk about Freemasonry, because Freemasonry, it’s very rare to actually talk about to talk to former Masons because it’s something that you’re not supposed to talk about. So it’s kind of an opportunity while I have you here. To kind of, for me personally learn, but also for the people to kind of have a knowledge about what Freemasonry is.

00:11:59:02 – 00:12:06:10
You said that you became a master mason. Can you explain how the degrees and the lodges are set up in Freemasonry so people actually understand what we’re talking about?

00:12:06:10 – 00:12:37:08
Well, there. Okay, the basic thing is what’s called the Blue Lodge. And that consists of three degrees and an apprentice craft and master masons. A lot of masons never go any further than that. I did, but basically, it’s like an initiatory process. The requirements are you have to at that time. Now, mind you, this is I think I joined in 75.

00:12:37:10 – 00:12:57:13
You had to be a man free born of good report and well recommended. So they ask you if you believe in God. And I said, yes, I did and I didn’t. They didn’t ask which God I believed. It. They just can you do you believe in God? And I said yes. I didn’t tell them that the God I believed didn’t have horns.

00:12:57:15 – 00:13:27:03
So anyhow, I went through the there’s this whole process. You do a lot of memory work. They call it. You memorize all of these ritual things. You have a mentor who’s called your poster, who’s an older Mason, and the guy that I have was a real, very kind guy, an executive in the the power company. I kept them and company, and he helped me memorize all this stuff.

00:13:27:05 – 00:13:46:16
And then he got a second degree, and then he have a whole bunch of stuff to memorize. And just let me touch this briefly, because people ask me, well, at what point does masonry start to look creepy? I mean, because there’s tons of Christians under Masons, literally thousands of them. And I just asked them, how can you do that?

00:13:46:16 – 00:14:15:03
I mean, because when you start out as a mason, they make you you come to the lodge, they make you take off all your clothes except your undies. They put you in this like jammies. They’re like, well, like they’re like pajamas. They’re like, typically the one knee is bare and one breast is bare. Your left breast and I think you’re right knee and you’re blindfolded and you have a cable around your neck.

00:14:15:03 – 00:14:36:20
It’s like a belt. They call it a cable toe. It’s like a velvet blue rope, and you’re tied up and you’re led to the door of the lodge, and you’ve got a guy leading you because, of course, you’re blindfolded. He knocks on the door and somebody’s on. And this is all ritualized. And the guy on the other side says, who comes here?

00:14:36:22 – 00:15:04:06
And your guy who’s guiding you, who’s a line drive is? Or he says, Mr. Bill Snelling, who has been long in darkness, excuse me, and now seeks to be brought to light to receive the rights and benefits of the Worshipful Lodge erected to God, is all, members have done before. And I ask Mr. Christian, Mr. Pastor, Mr. elder because there’s like it used to be and still is.

00:15:04:06 – 00:15:32:13
It used to be 40% of the pastors in a Southern Baptist convention were Freemasons. And how can you say that you’re in darkness when you have Jesus in your heart? You see what I’m saying? Yeah, yeah. And then that’s not it. You go into the lodge, you’re led around like I call it circle manipulation. You walk around the lodge, they have these officers, a junior warden, the senior warden at the different.

00:15:32:15 – 00:16:07:07
You know, things of a compass. And in the east is the worshipful master who’s like the big, big cheese. Then you’re made to kneel at this altar again. You’re still blindfolded, and you’re made to read, to understand that you’re putting your hands on this huge. It’s like a pulpit Bible, you know, big King James Bible. And this guy comes for this worshipful master and he says, you know, we’re going to lead you through this oath, and I’m not going to go through the halls because it takes like five minutes.

00:16:07:07 – 00:16:40:00
But it’s a long, involved and ultimately bloodcurdling oath at the M, you say you swear and the essence of the all of your sheep, the secrets of an n an apprentice mason. Which, of course, I’m violating. All right. Now. And then at the end, you swear that if I should ever reveal the secrets of the apprentice Mason, that I swear that I will have my throat cut across, my tongue torn up by the woods and buried in the sands of the sea.

00:16:40:02 – 00:17:03:22
Where the tide ebbs and flows twice in 24 hours. Shall I ever knowingly violate this, my entered apprentice obligation? So help me God and keep me steadfast to do performance for the sake. Now, if you are a Christian pastor or whatever, well, that that kind of raise the hair on the back of your neck.

00:17:04:00 – 00:17:09:02
Yeah, I think it was raised the head on the back of the neck of pretty much most people just to hear that.

00:17:09:04 – 00:17:40:20
Yeah. And then. At that point, the worshipful master says, my brother, in your current situation, what do you most desire? And then the guy that’s with you, this that is a senior warden says light was present in your ear. And I say, like and then I remove the blindfold and you see, before you this big open Bible with a square and compass on it.

00:17:40:22 – 00:18:13:02
And those are the represent the three great lights of masonry the Bible, the square and the compass. And then they are revealed by the three lesser lights of masonry, which are three burning tapers that are adjacent to the altar. Now that’s the most mild initiation. From there on they get more and more creepy. So I don’t know how deep you want to go into this, but basically masonry is an Antichrist thing.

00:18:13:04 – 00:18:35:01
It claims it’s not religious, but it is. You know, they play around with it because they say, oh, well, we’re just religious, but we’re not a religion, because if they’re if they were a religion, then if you were already a Christian, you shouldn’t join another religion. Most Christians would say that, like if you’re a Christian, you want to become a Buddhist, right?

00:18:35:05 – 00:19:02:14
Well, masonry is a religion. I mean, it has all the qualities. This is what I tell people. If you look at Webster’s Dictionary, there’s three things that make something a religion. According to Webster, number one son has a belief in some sort of deity. Masonry has that number two in that belief is expressed in some sort of ritual, and masonry is full of ritual.

00:19:02:16 – 00:19:36:17
I mean, that’s pretty much all it is. It’s. And then the third quality is it has a system of some sort of ethics or morality, and masonry has that. So masonry is a religion and it’s an anti-Christ religion. And the problem is, is that basically if you drill down into this deep enough and read the books, read the books that are written by people like Albert Pike, like Albert Mackey, these are two, you know, or Alpha, Arthur.

00:19:36:17 – 00:20:14:22
Edward, wait, these are three prominent scholars of 19th century, early 20th century masonry, and all of them were cultists. Arthur. Either way, he wrote a book on black magic and patterns, How to Sell Your Soul to the devil. And in my book, Shameless Plug, this is an older edition. This is the first edition. It looks different now, but in my book I document how almost every single leading occult person of the late 19th and early 20th century was a Freemason.

00:20:15:00 – 00:20:19:21
They just go together like, you know, love and marriage.

00:20:19:23 – 00:20:28:22
If people want to go look at these books, I just want you to like kind of give them an idea, because if you want to confirm that for themselves, what books are you talking about? What people, are you talking about?

00:20:29:00 – 00:21:02:22
Well, there’s morals and Dogma by Albert Pike. He was, like, the greatest Masonic scholar in America, the 19th century. He was a sovereign Grand commander of the Scottish Reich. And he’s buried in the Scottish Rite Temple, 13 blocks from the white House. So that’s one. The other one is Albert Mackey’s, Encyclopedia of Freemasonry. There’s Arthur either way, who has a whole bunch of books on masonry.

00:21:03:00 – 00:21:23:22
Again, all of these were footnoted in my book. I mean, the last, volume, lots of pages of footnotes, because I’m not just making this stuff up. The other person who really you need to pay attention to in all of this because he’s more contemporary. Have you ever heard of Manley P Hall?

00:21:24:00 – 00:21:25:05
I have, yeah.

00:21:25:06 – 00:22:01:14
Yeah. Well, he was one of the most notable cultists in America in the 20th century. You passed away in 1994. I think he was the head of the Philosophical Research Society. He was a very high level ceremonial magician, and he was also a 33 degree mason. And he wrote this book, Lost Keys, a Freemason. And in that book, among many things, he says that when you become a master mason, you are like a warrior on the block.

00:22:01:16 – 00:22:09:13
And that’s kind of Masonic code. And the seething energies of Lucifer are yours to command.

00:22:09:15 – 00:22:18:00
So these are like the biggest free Masonic figures that that we we know about today. And yet most Freemasons have no idea about this.

00:22:18:02 – 00:22:51:15
Yeah. Because they don’t read the books. They just they join the lodge for whatever reason it might be for business, because, see, it used to be that up until I think the early 90s, lawyers and doctors were not allowed to advertise. They couldn’t put like an ad in the telephone book. It was like an ethics thing. And so the only way that lawyers and doctors could kind of build up business was by masonry.

00:22:51:17 – 00:23:21:09
They join the Masonic Lodge, they send referrals to one another. You know, a good old boys network. So that’s why a lot of people join the lodge. Many people join it because they had an uncle or a father or a brother who was in a. And honestly, unless you really understand the occult, it pouring, I mean, imagine the most boring church service you’ve ever been in.

00:23:21:11 – 00:23:55:19
And having spent five years in the Mormon church, I can relate to that. But it’s just, you know, guys were sitting there snoring during the Masonic ritual when I was there. And, you know, because it’s like watching paint dry and they go every week. And when I was involved in this, I was like the youngest guy in the lodge by 20 years, all these guys were like 50, 60, 70 years old, you know, and basically they were there because they were buddies.

00:23:55:19 – 00:24:42:02
And afterwards they, you know, play poker and eat, you know, sandwiches or something. But what none of these men understand, I don’t think, is that deep down inside there’s this very dark, evil energy which is very sexualized. We document in the book how many men that have come to us over the years for deliverance. They were in masonry and they began to be drawn into wickedness, into perversion, and even in the pit of and, it’s it’s dark, dangerous stuff because it opens up unholy desires within the men.

00:24:42:02 – 00:25:13:05
And then because of the way the spiritual world works, that in turn percolates down into their family, and it affects the wife who may or may not be involved because there’s a women’s order of masonry called the order of the Eastern Star, whose symbol is a satanic pentagram. By the way. So in any way it affects your children, so many men that were Masons at first and then benefited problem.

00:25:13:06 – 00:25:26:01
But when their children started hitting puberty, they just started to go in various ways. Nuts. Because of this trickle down influence of the Masonic Lodge.

00:25:26:04 – 00:25:44:15
Yeah, I actually interviewed a woman whose dad was a Freemason and, something very similar to that happened to her. So she was never involved in, you know, the eastern stars. And as far as I understand, her mom wasn’t involved either. But there was, you know, an element of the children thing that you talked about, with their family being abused, his, her sibling.

00:25:44:15 – 00:26:03:11
Sorry. And she also, around puberty, started developing, you know, some weird things. So it does, does correlate with what you’re talking about. But I want to make sure that people understand. I want to go back to the degrees of Freemasonry. You talked about the Blue Lodge. You also mentioned the Scottish Rite there. So you’re correct. Can you explain how that set up so people actually understand what it means to be a 33rd degree Mason?

00:26:03:11 – 00:26:06:16
Because I think it’s just there’s a lot of confusion around it.

00:26:06:18 – 00:26:39:11
Well, it’s a little complicated, but in America, English mason is different. But in America, after Blue Lodge, it forks off in two directions. You can either go to the Scottish Rite or the York Rite. The York Rite has seven degrees. The Scottish Rite has 29 degrees. When I was when I was made a master mason, I was told because at that time, I believe it or not, I was going to the seminary to become an old Catholic priest.

00:26:39:13 – 00:27:04:18
And some of my brother Masons know that. And I said, well, the York Rite is the Christian path, so to speak. So why don’t you go off that thing first? So I did, and the top of the York Rite is what is called a Knights Templar degree. Now in the Scottish Rite, you have these 29 degrees that some of them are really creepy.

00:27:04:19 – 00:27:43:23
I mean, seriously creepy. They have one. I think it’s a 19th degree where they actually try to call up the devil. And, finally at the top, the 32nd degree, which is the, the sublime prince of the Royal Secret. And that’s as high as most people go. If you’re some really important person, either in the industry or in politics or entertainment, you might be offered to become a 33rd degree Mason, which is the highest degree in American masonry.

00:27:44:01 – 00:28:13:07
And many people, you know, presidents, actors, I mean, people like, you know, why Rogers, Harry Truman, all kinds of celebrities. Burl Ives there in 33rd or were they are all deceased now, 33rd degree Masons. Gene Autry many of these people. So that’s the structure of it. And there’s nuances in the York, right, that are very creepy.

00:28:13:09 – 00:28:16:23
But the Scottish Rite is much more creepy.

00:28:17:01 – 00:28:34:10
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00:28:34:12 – 00:28:48:16
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00:28:48:20 – 00:29:06:00
All right, let’s get back in the story. Okay. So to make sure that everyone understands, you know, kind of what you already set up, I’ll try to summarize it. So there’s the Blue Lodge, which everyone has to go through, which is three degrees. And then you have two choices, either the York right, which is seven, or the Scottish right, which is 29.

00:29:06:00 – 00:29:17:12
So three plus 29 equals 32. So 32 degrees. An honorary 33rd degree for people that are deemed to be important. So that’s kind of how it works only on the Scottish right. That’s where the 33rd degree happens. So yeah.

00:29:17:13 – 00:29:19:22
Actually okay. Well okay. Let me just correct something.

00:29:19:22 – 00:29:20:18
Yes. Yes please.

00:29:20:22 – 00:29:28:07
If you’re if you’re a 10th degree ninth Templar, you can become an authoritative racist even if you never went through the Scottish Rite.

00:29:28:07 – 00:29:29:06
Okay.

00:29:29:08 – 00:29:31:08
Minor detail, but okay.

00:29:31:08 – 00:29:47:01
Thank you. Thank you for clarifying. So all right, now we talked about the 33rd degree Mason. People usually are like that’s the highest level of Freemasonry that there is. There’s also a bunch of people that talk about, you know, there’s there’s secrets in Freemasonry that a lot of people don’t know about. And you have to, you know, be deemed worthy to be told these secrets.

00:29:47:03 – 00:29:57:05
You became a 33rd degree Mason, and you eventually joined this secret group or secret order or whatever you want to call it. Can you explain what that is?

00:29:57:06 – 00:30:46:08
Okay, well, beyond okay, beyond what we’re we just been talking about over in Europe, there’s what’s called the Rite of Memphis midstream, and that is 360 degrees beyond what’s, you know, I’ve already discussed and most Masons don’t even know about that. Now, I got up to the, if memory serves 96 degree. And how I did that is there was a group in Chicago where they were they were involved with that thing because Chicago was and probably still is a major nexus of Satanism.

00:30:46:10 – 00:31:21:01
Most people don’t know that. So this group brought me in to Memphis, Missouri, and then ultimately there was a tunnel that from the over all the way from Paris, who was the son of Pappas. Now, you probably don’t know that name, but Pappas was a very prominent 19th century high level occultist and ceremonial magician, and he wrote a book called The Tarot of the Bohemian about tarot cards, you know, and he came over and he brought me into the 90, 97th degree.

00:31:21:03 – 00:31:47:12
And this is where you get into the really deep stuff, the ideas behind sexual alchemy, how to supposedly live forever, you know, all this creepy stuff. Anyway. I would go up to these guys that have been in the Scottish Rite forever, you know, older men that were in their 60s. And I say, okay, I’m now a sublime prince of the royal secret.

00:31:47:12 – 00:32:15:18
You know, when they did this initiation of I was a sublime prince of the royal secret. And so what’s the royal secret like? You know, I don’t know now whether they were just feigning ignorance, because at this time I was like in my late 20s, or one, I don’t know. But I learned eventually, after getting into the right of Memphis mainstream.

00:32:15:20 – 00:32:49:00
And again, this is something that probably only 1 in 1000 Masons in America understands is that the royal secret is that you can live forever by sexually vampire izing children, literally. That’s what these people believe. Now, again, the vast majority of Masons have no understanding of any of this. They just think it’s this good old boys club that teaches, you know, morality.

00:32:49:01 – 00:33:26:04
And this is the way with almost all of these groups, whether it’s the Mormons or the Masons or the witches or the Vatican, they all have this vast number of reasonably good people, in some cases, very good people under them that are that are sort of feeding them all of this energy because they need backup. When I was in the Satanism, we understood and we’re taught that Satan draws energy from being worshiped.

00:33:26:06 – 00:33:50:07
And when when these guys, they don’t even have to understand it. Every time a mason kneels at the altar and swears, unless the devil gets energy from them. And again, most Masons, if they heard this, they will be scandalized. They say, this guy’s a nut. But the funny thing is, and like you say, you’ve you’ve talked with people who to a greater degree or a lesser degree.

00:33:50:07 – 00:34:17:19
And believe me, we talked to dozens of people over the years in ministry who came to us, who were, you know, like sodomized these children who were literally taken to the Masonic lodge after hours laid on that very same altar that the Holy King James Bible laid on. And they were gang by a bunch of old men that were all high level masons until they were practically dead.

00:34:17:21 – 00:34:18:23
You know, that’s.

00:34:19:01 – 00:34:43:15
Pretty much the story that I heard without, you know, details, because it was it was an eyewitness account. It was a second hand witness. But it’s similar to what I heard before. So, okay, a lot it said about Freemasonry and you kind of said how, you know, Freemasonry is worshiping Lucifer. And I think that’s made very clear in the books that you talked about, if you want to check the references, they can check your book or they can go directly to the references if they doubt anything because it’s in there.

00:34:43:17 – 00:34:57:09
I want to go back to something that you said earlier because we kind of did a tangent on Freemasonry because I thought it was very important, but you talked about selling your soul. Let’s get back to that, because I definitely don’t want to ignore that. Can you explain the circumstances around it?

00:34:57:11 – 00:35:34:05
Well, again, this there was this group in Chicago and they were they were entwined with this Memphis midstream. Right. And, they were also with this. It was like two things together, the Brotherhood, which I mentioned earlier and then this Memphis midstream thing. And I interacted with these people and, at a certain point they said, well, if you want to go any further and become a Satanic priest, you need to, you know, sell your soul to the devil.

00:35:34:06 – 00:36:01:03
And so they took me to this park in Glen Allen, Illinois, which is like a suburb of Chicago. I don’t know if it’s still there or not, but it was a very weird. There’s a broad daylight and they said, don’t worry about it. You know, the cops are all devil worshipers. And and in the center of the park, there was this like area where they had these weird Egyptian statues.

00:36:01:03 – 00:36:30:20
There was like there literally was an altar with horns, you know, kind of like the pictures you see of the of the altar in the Temple of Solomon, you know, that kind of thing. And they brought out this black book and there are all these names in it. And there’s one supposed high level Satanist kind of officiated. And I swore an oath to Satan.

00:36:30:22 – 00:36:58:17
My allegiance to him, that I would serve him for seven years and he would give me everything I wanted, you know, wine, women, song, power, occult power, whatever. And then at the end of those seven years, he could kill me and take me to hell. By that time, I had been told that the Satanist believe in hell is like one long orgy of drugs, sex and rock and roll, so to speak, you know?

00:36:58:19 – 00:37:23:22
So I didn’t think going to hell was a bad thing at that time. So I had to sign my name in blood in this black book. And supposedly this sounds funny, but I was supposed to go out and find seven people to sell their souls to the devil under me, so to speak. Sort of like multi-level marketing, but for the devil, and I did.

00:37:24:00 – 00:37:52:01
I got seven and I feel so bad about this, and I, I’ve contacted as many of these people as I can find to try and talk them out of it and, you know, repent and all that. But, you know. And still, I didn’t have the things I needed. I had, you know, my life was not good, even though I was supposedly this high level warlocks, satanic priest, blah, blah, blah.

00:37:52:03 – 00:38:21:11
I was working in a nothing job, you know, I was a security guard, you know, warehouse barely getting by. And then what happened is I had written a check every year. I wrote a check to the Church of Satan. I think it was for $10 to, renew my subscription. They had a newsletter, probably still do, called The Cloven Wolf.

00:38:21:12 – 00:38:46:06
And, when I got the check back from the bank because they used to do that, someone had written on the check some lady by the handwriting. I’ll be praying for you in Jesus name. And I just scoffed. And the funny thing is, let me just say I had not had any contact with Christians. Nobody ever tried to witness to me.

00:38:46:08 – 00:39:08:07
Nobody, you know, had ever come to our door and tried to, you know, give us track to talk about Jesus. Even the jail witnesses never came to our door because they were scared of us, you know, because people people understood, you know, we they they’d see us out in the backyard in the moonlight and black robes dancing around, you know?

00:39:08:09 – 00:39:36:18
So anyway, I. I, I got this check, and I just stopped at it. And literally within 24 hours, it was like I was hit with a freight train. I lost all my occult power and believe the magical power is real. I lost my job. I got as sick as a dog, and I thought, what the heck, you know?

00:39:36:18 – 00:39:55:13
So we had an altar up in the attic. The whole attic. We painted it black, and we had a magic circle on the floor and a big statue of Pam, you know, the Horned God, all kinds of creepy stuff. And I went up there, I knelt and I prayed to Lucifer, and I said, what’s going on? I’ve done everything you’ve told me.

00:39:55:13 – 00:40:27:18
And my life is just increasingly gone. Well, gone to hell. Literally. And the funny thing is, even on his praying to Lucifer, Jesus answered my prayer because the next day we got a call from these two teenage Satanist girls from Chicago. They wanted to come up and meet me because they heard about I was this great satanic priest.

00:40:27:20 – 00:40:48:16
And so they they came up on the train, they said, we had a gift for you. And I thought, well, I could use a gift right now because I just lost my job. I don’t have hardly any money. You know. And they show up at the door and they sit adoringly at my feet, and they give me these two comic books from Czech publication.

00:40:48:18 – 00:40:51:00
Yeah. I assume you’re familiar with Czech publications?

00:40:51:04 – 00:40:53:10
I’m not. I think I’m too young for that.

00:40:53:12 – 00:41:14:11
It’s a Christian publishing house, and he made these. I don’t know how many there are. Now. There’s a time there were like 15 or so full color comic books, but they were about Christian themes, and they were intended to be soul winning tools. And in the back of them there was, you know, a thing going on, okay, how do you get Born again?

00:41:14:13 – 00:41:43:19
And the tune that these kids gave me, I see kids because they were following their late teens. One was called spellbound and one was called Angel of light. You can look these up. They’re probably available online and they are about the dangers of the occult and about how Lucifer is really the god behind all false religions. And I just looked at them or, you know, whatever, you know, and thrown in a door in the closet and forgot of them.

00:41:43:21 – 00:42:15:09
Well, anyway, the next day there’s a knock on the door and we open it up. And this morning, missionaries never had one come before. And you can. They always are, you know, two of them, two young men. And I remember what this guy said. This grandmaster drew it back in, you know, 1973. We’re now in 1980. And we joined that world in church, because we thought that was where we were supposed to be.

00:42:15:09 – 00:42:38:08
This was a sign from Lucifer. So I joined the Mormon church. I tried to be a good Mormon. I stopped doing dope. I stopped having orgies. I was just monogamous. And the only thing we did, because we had been led to believe by this, this Druid guy, that the Mormons were white witches. And so we still did white witchcraft.

00:42:38:13 – 00:42:52:00
What? We didn’t do Satanism anymore. We got all of that. All of our lives. Went to the temple in the Mormon church, did all their secret rituals, which are very Masonic.

00:42:52:02 – 00:43:04:13
Well, that’s actually stopped there because this is actually important work kind of rule. Did you have in the Mormon church? Because we just talked about missionaries come to your house and you said you joined. Can you expand a little bit, you know, the progression and what kind of role you eventually got there?

00:43:04:13 – 00:43:30:14
Yeah. Well, okay. You get baptized and then after a year, if you, you know, mind your P’s and q’s and their tithing and all of that, you were made an elder and, that’s what I was. I was an elder. And then later I was made an elders quorum president. So that’s like an administrative role right under the bishop.

00:43:30:15 – 00:43:57:08
Now, understanding the Mormon church, I don’t know if it’s still this way, but back then, this is in the 80s. A bishop, like most people, think of a bishop as some really high level guy. You know, in the Mormon church, the bishop is the head of a local congregation. They call it a ward. The word and an elders quorum president is kind of like right under the bishop and takes care of administrative stuff.

00:43:57:10 – 00:44:21:23
And I you get I had gotten a temple recommend, which is like a, a card that allows you to go to the temple because you’re not allowed to go to the temple unless you’re worthy. And at that time, we went to Salt Lake City because that’s like the Cadillac of Mormon temples. The Salt Lake Temple. And we went through the rituals.

00:44:21:23 – 00:44:47:21
And then I’ll tell you, that’s a whole story in itself. Do you want to get into that? Of course. Yeah. Okay. Well, so we go now. Mind you, we had information from this Grandmaster Druid. He said, give these words to the guy. When you go into the Mormon temple and they had a system which was probably kind of ahead of its time.

00:44:47:21 – 00:45:22:04
This was, let’s say, 1981, where you had this card and it had a code on it. Like nowadays everybody’s familiar with there’s some kind of magnetic coding they’d put into the machine, and out within the inner logic. And then we were we were told to say these words, and when we put these words into the computer after our an hour card, the whole system, like it crashed the entire computer system and so they didn’t know what to do about that.

00:45:22:04 – 00:45:47:11
So they got rid of the people that they could. They took us through the ritual, which involves a whole I mean, it’s hours long. It’s kind of like the, the Masonic ritual on steroids. I mean, you go downstairs, you get all basically naked, they wash your body, and it’s done man to man, woman to woman. But they wash your body.

00:45:47:11 – 00:46:23:15
They anoint your body with oil. You’re given this magical temple garment which you may or may not have heard of and was interesting, is just to back one step up. A lot of people don’t know. Joseph Smith was the founder of the Mormon Church. In 1844 he was made a master mason in Nauvoo, Illinois, and after he was made a master mason, he kind of stole most of the Masonic ritual and created this temple ceremony.

00:46:23:17 – 00:46:49:13
The whole thing is just bizarre and I go into great depth. I have a video called Mormonism Temple of Doom, a DVD that you can get that goes into all this in detail. But anyway, this is this is where it gets kind of odd because after this is all over, we were invited to go meet with the president of the Salt Lake Temple, which is kind of a big deal.

00:46:49:15 – 00:47:15:11
And he said, what can I do for you? And I said, well, we’ve been told we didn’t say by a good, but we been told that we need to talk to an apostle. Now, understand that in the Mormon church there’s this hierarchy. There’s a prophet who is called the president, and then there’s the First Presidency, which is to advisors and the prophet.

00:47:15:12 – 00:47:40:02
Under them are 12 apostles. So he said, well, I’ll see what I can do. So he arranged for us to go to the church office building and meet with one of the 12 apostles. And at that time it was Elder James Foust. Believe it or not, that was his name, folks. Which is kind of weird. If you follow us to the very prominent name in the history of the occult.

00:47:40:04 – 00:48:03:10
So we went there, been in the church office building. And to make a long story short, he said, well, what do you want to talk to us about? I said, well, we had these dreams. This is true. And again, back then nobody knew what was going on in the Mormon temples. The the stuff had not been made public in any way.

00:48:03:10 – 00:48:28:13
A couple of years after this, a couple, Chuck, Chuck and Dolly Saget put out a book called What’s Going On in There? They were former temple workers, and they revealed the whole thing. But at this time, there was no anybody. And I said, we saw this ritual or this, and there was this white altar with a satin covering just like what’s in the celestial room of the Mormon Temple.

00:48:28:15 – 00:49:02:14
And on it was this naked young girl, and everybody was around chanting, hail, Lucifer! And he said, this apostle guy, he said, well, I can tell you are very extraordinary people. And I buried my solemn testimony. And this is a big deal. If you’ve ever talked to a mormon, if they start saying, I burying my solemn testimony, this is like a big deal for them, that what you have said is true.

00:49:02:16 – 00:49:10:05
And if you can come to Salt Lake and live here, we will find a place for you in the worship of the temple.

00:49:10:07 – 00:49:32:19
So I’m actually curious about one thing you talked about, the Druid telling you that, of the loose, this Luciferian secrets were found in Freemasonry and in the Mormon church. Right. And you had been a Freemason at that point. You also went to the the temple in Salt Lake. Can you talk about the similarities? If there are some and what are they between Freemasonry and Mormonism?

00:49:32:21 – 00:50:04:20
Well, first of all, if you go to Temple Square, you’ll see Masonic handshakes. You’ll see me all seeing Eye. You’ll see the sun, the moon and the stars. There is no crosses on the Mormon Temple. There’s nothing Christian on the outside of the Mormon Temple. When you get inside the temple, most of the similarities are the fact you go through three levels, and in each level you’re made to you.

00:50:04:21 – 00:50:33:11
You’re taught hand signs and handshakes and things that are all very similar to Masonic stuff. And you are made to swear an oath. And you went in the first level, which I think is I mean, it’s been ages since I’ve gone through all of this. You put your hand to your throat and go like this the same as you do in the in an apprentice degree in the Masonic Lodge.

00:50:33:13 – 00:50:57:16
And in third level, you are taught a another set of secret handshakes, and then you’re instructed. And this is where it gets really Masonic. You’re instructed to go up and they have this veil, which they say is like the veil in Solomon’s Temple. So you’ve got Masonic markings. You have a square and a compass on the two here.

00:50:57:16 – 00:51:29:04
Two, you know, your chest, you have another marking on your navel and another Masonic marking on your knee. Okay. The same markings are on the veil, but they’re stitched, so they’re holding, and there’s a guy on the other side of the veil that you can’t see who represents Heavenly Father. He represents God. And you go up to this guy and you’re instructed, you put your hand through the veil.

00:51:29:08 – 00:51:55:04
And this is called the Five Points of Fellowship. And this is right out of masonry and white, right out of witchcraft with garden theory and Alexandrian witchcraft and masonry and Mormonism all have these five point and the five points of fellowship are foot to foot. Need any hand to back, breast to breast and mouth to ear. I think I got that right.

00:51:55:04 – 00:52:12:02
And anyhow, so you’re embracing this unknown guy through this veil and he whispers to you the secret name of this, the, celestial kingdom. You ready for this?

00:52:12:04 – 00:52:12:21
I don’t know.

00:52:12:21 – 00:52:43:23
I think it’s health in the navel, marrow in the bones, strength in the loins and in the sinews. Power in the priesthood be upon me and my posterity for all generations of time and all eternity. Now, that might sound reasonably benign, except for the fact that it’s almost word for word out of the Satanic Grimoire. It’s a satanic incantation.

00:52:44:00 – 00:53:19:12
The only difference is that obscene words are used. And then when you’re done with that, this guy draws you through the veil into what is called the Celestial Room. The Celestial Kingdom. And basically, it’s like this beautifully appointed everything is in white or light beige, you know, with sofas. And it’s like being in a really fancy hotel lobby and people are invited to just sit and absorb the wonderfulness of it.

00:53:19:14 – 00:53:46:22
And they believe, literally, that God the Father, who they believe to be a man in a body, and they believe that he invisibly walks around this celestial. And they and I don’t know if you know this or not, that they believe he has hundreds of goddess wives and that he is constantly impregnating these wives who give birth to spirit children who come down.

00:53:46:22 – 00:53:58:01
And then they they believe that every child is born on earth is first fathered in heaven with Heavenly Father and one of his goddess wives.

00:53:58:01 – 00:54:10:17
Yeah, I’ve heard about that. And I think a lot of Mormons, if they hear you talking there. So that’s not true. But if you actually go back to the history of what Joseph Smith taught, that you’ll see. And if you talk to some of the elders, probably in the Mormon church, that know about this stuff, they’ll tell you about it.

00:54:10:22 – 00:54:29:15
But what I find, in what you said is essentially that, you know, the details of Mormonism and Freemasonry, like the details are different, but the structure is very, very similar. And you can see what kind of Joseph Smith took it from, especially since he was a Freemason. So that’s super interesting. I want to go back to your story, though, because, you joined the Mormon church to try to help your life.

00:54:29:15 – 00:54:39:15
Your life was you were really struggling at the time and you’re trying to, you know, become a better person to have a better life and all of that. What did your life look like inside of the Mormon church?

00:54:39:17 – 00:55:04:19
Well, it was it was better. But of course, part of that was because I was no longer actively worshiping the devil. I mean, I thought I was worshiping the true God, but I wasn’t, and, I assumed all of my vices. I mean, I was no longer doing cocaine or smoking dope or I never was one for drinking alcohol.

00:55:04:21 – 00:55:37:14
So, I mean, it was better. But as I rose in the ranks, this is kind of an I’m glad you asked this question. As I became an elder’s quorum president. And again, I don’t know how things are now, but back in this and this was in the early 80s, the Elders Forum president was supposed to see that all of these guys under him, these elders, would go out and visit every home in the ward in the local congregation to see how they were doing and to bring them a message from the prophet, quote, unquote.

00:55:37:16 – 00:56:04:11
And I’ll tell you one thing. The Mormons get right. Like I tell people, even a broken clock is right twice a day. And they’re they are very good at taking care of their people. If you saw a neighbor who was in trouble in some way, like they needed their sidewalk shovel or whatever, you would go do that. And the idea was you were going to go and love bomb this neighbor and make them want to join the Mormon church.

00:56:04:13 – 00:56:33:22
And that’s pretty good, you know? I mean, I don’t fault that, but, you know, you got to realize for me, just let me just put this in perspective. At this time, I had a job working in a retail store 40 hours a week. In addition to that, I literally had to spend another 40 hours a week working for the Mormon church with no pay, because none of the people, he said, have the very highest levels of the Mormon church get any salary.

00:56:34:00 – 00:56:56:19
So again, that’s an admirable thing. But I was just working myself to death, and I oftentimes I would have to go and do the home teaching because I couldn’t find somebody else to do it. And I would visit these people and I would talk to these people. I’ll tell you this one story. There was this one guy, I won’t say his name, but he was his older fellow.

00:56:56:19 – 00:57:20:15
His readers can be married, had a family, but he was stuck at me and deacon, a deacon is a 12 year old boy. If you turned the page is 12 years old. The bishop laid his hands on you, makes you a deacon. So this guy was stuck. And being a deacon because he wasn’t worthy, why wasn’t he worthy?

00:57:20:17 – 00:57:48:02
He couldn’t stop smoking. And as you may know, there’s the big nose in the Mormon churches. You can’t smoke, curse. You can’t take any kind of illegal drugs, and you can’t drink coffee. So this guy was trying, you know, I don’t know if you’ve ever been a smoker, but it’s a hard thing to get off your back. And I would give this guy priesthood blessings.

00:57:48:04 – 00:58:31:04
I would pray with him. I would fast with him. I do all this. And he was stuck. He was going to end up being like the Mormon church is only 90 year old deacon because of the merciless quality of Mormonism and the fact that it didn’t really have any power to transform his life. And there were numerous stories like that, and it began to put a crack in my belief in Mormonism because I thought, okay, if this is the true church, which is what they teach, then why if I’m if I’m holding the priesthood, you know, I was a holy Melchizedek Priesthood elder, and if I laid hands on a guy to be set free

00:58:31:04 – 00:58:37:06
from nicotine, why didn’t that work? Especially when I was doing it, like every week.

00:58:37:08 – 00:58:50:21
Especially because you had been in the occult before and you had some of the power of the occult. And so it’s like you understood that there was power somewhere and that Lucifer could give you power, and that you thought you were in the true church and you found none of this power. So I, I understand, but what did you do?

00:58:50:21 – 00:58:55:05
Because you said it started to question your whole world view. Like how did that develop over time?

00:58:55:07 – 00:59:17:23
Well, yeah. And okay, leaving on that, I ended up having to move out of Milwaukee because at that time my wife wanted to go to nursing school, and there was a nursing school in Dubuque that was good. And so I was without a job, and I had some time on my hands, and I was trying to find work.

00:59:18:01 – 00:59:53:15
And, I was plugging into the local Mormon church in Dubuque. The, the ward there. But of course, I was no longer an elders from President. And I saw this thing in the local Penney advertiser, you know, that said, oh, there’s going to be a prophecy seminar at this park. Oh. That’s good. I thought, I can go to this prophecy seminar because he didn’t say what church it was, and I can steal some sheep because I belong to a church that’s being run by a true prophet.

00:59:53:17 – 01:00:29:08
You know what they do? And so I went to this thing, and I had never been to a Protestant service. And there was this evangelist out there, and they were talking about the book of revelation. And, this guy was presenting the gospel in the context of explain their version of what the book of revelation means. So anyway, he was talking about how you’re saved by grace through faith.

01:00:29:10 – 01:01:11:16
You know, the basic Christian gospel. And I kind of raised my hand being, you know, this wiseacre because they didn’t know I was a mormon. And you see, Warren’s teach that basically there’s only two choices for the true church. Either the Catholics who claim, you know, to have this apostolic succession all the way back to Peter after the present day, or else Joseph Smith, who was supposedly given this mandate in the year 1830 by the angel Moroni and by John the Baptist and whatever.

01:01:11:18 – 01:01:35:23
And because they said that all the Protestant churches were split off of the Catholic Church, and so therefore they had no authority. And so either you got to be a Catholic, you got to be a mormon. And so I raised this point, and this guy and he says to me, where do you get the idea that you need to be baptized in order to be saved?

01:01:35:23 – 01:01:58:06
It says in acts 1631, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ now shall be saved. And thy house. And that was the Bible verse that hit me, you know, because I don’t really read the whole King James Bible because the Mormons use the King James Bible. I read the Bible through five times as a mormon, but I never seen that verse.

01:01:58:06 – 01:02:24:00
Like, you know how Bible verses lethality in this verse went through my magic more. And then there were like a bullet or a sheet of witch tissue paper. And I went home and I was trembling and I prayed and I fasted because that’s what Mormons are supposed to do. If you run into a spiritual dilemma, it says, right in Doctrine and Covenants, which is one of the the Mormon scriptures of the four, they have four scriptures.

01:02:24:00 – 01:02:46:23
They have the Bible, the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. And I prayed and I fast. And supposedly if you do that, if what you’re thinking, is true, you got a burning in your bosom, and if it’s not true, the Holy Spirit will send you a stupor of mind, and you will forget what you’re even talking about.

01:02:47:01 – 01:03:12:04
So I didn’t get either one. And so I did bring to mind the comic books that I had gotten five years earlier or more. By this time. And I want Doug involved because I’m in the battle is how to be a Christian. And so I got down at the foot of my bed. I know I took off my Magic Woman underwear because I didn’t want any static on the line.

01:03:12:04 – 01:03:42:03
When I talked to God, and I prayed the prayers in the back of that comic book, and I got born again. And that was the beginning of my journey as a true Christian. So I got saved partly through the Assemblies of God. But then I was going to study to be a minister, and there were stipulations that if you were, either you or your wife were divorced, and my wife was a divorcée, you can’t be a minister.

01:03:42:03 – 01:04:01:05
At that time, that was a rule in the Assembly. So I went over to the force for a church decision. I don’t know if you’re familiar with charismatic churches, but it’s another charismatic church. And there was a pastor and his wife did deliverance on me. I set free with a whole legion of demons, I’m sure.

01:04:01:07 – 01:04:16:14
Yeah, especially with the things you were involved in, a lot of which we didn’t we didn’t touch on because they did quite graphic. And, you know, for the sake of time, we can’t talk about everything that you’ve gone through because you have so much. There’s something that you talked about, obviously we talked about you selling your soul. Now you accepted Jesus.

01:04:16:16 – 01:04:26:01
I remember you talking about how the the covenant or the deal that you made with the devil was for seven years. So what happened with that?

01:04:26:03 – 01:05:06:00
Well, thankfully. Okay. That was made in 19. Let’s see. That was 1979. And, I got saved in 1984. And when I got saved, that wiped out that stupid covenant. It took the power of the devil off of me because I became a child of God. And of course, I renounced that covenant part of, you know, I mean, I know there’s different ways that people do deliverance, and I don’t know how familiar are with deliverance, but, you know, one of the things that we encourage people to do in and I was encouraged to do was like, I went through and I renounced all of my Masonic oaths.

01:05:06:02 – 01:05:25:22
I renounced all the old covenants I took in the Mormon church. I renounced the, baptismal vows of the Catholic Church, and I renounced, that oath that I took to the devil in that park. Glen Ellen and nailed it all on the cross.

01:05:26:00 – 01:05:45:09
So it was you became a Christian before the seven years had actually passed. And who knows would have happened if, that didn’t, I guess we’re never going to know, but, there’s something else that I would not be a good interviewer if I didn’t ask you, because Freemasonry is kind of a secret thing. You can’t talk about it.

01:05:45:09 – 01:05:58:14
You already mentioned that you’re breaking these rules. How were you able to be so open against Freemasonry? As a former Mason, do you have any repercussions? Did that ever happened to you? Can you explain this?

01:05:58:16 – 01:06:25:14
Yeah, you could say that. I have had so many attempts on my life, I can’t even begin to tell you. But what partially helped me was the fact. And I’ll just insert this little tale. Since you say life stories. When I moved to Dubuque, I wanted to go and reconnect with the Masonic Lodge in Dubuque. And so I went to the mission.

01:06:25:15 – 01:06:50:08
And this was right after literally about a week after I got born again, the the Masonic Lodge had, they call it a hell, a high 12 luncheon, which was on Friday noon and everybody was welcome. And I went to this luncheon. It was like a free meal. And, I got in there and it’s down in the basement of the big lodge thing downtown Dubuque.

01:06:50:10 – 01:07:16:23
And as I was eating, I could feel this darkness. I’ve been in Masonic Lodge hundreds of times, but because now I had the Holy Spirit within me, I could feel something dark and evil and oppressive just pushing down on me. And I, you know, ate the lunch and I even I felt like this voice in my head saying, my son, get out of here.

01:07:17:01 – 01:07:47:21
So I even skipped dessert, which for me was a big deal back then. And I went outside and this was in June, you know, the bright June sunshine. And I thought, let this, this incredible weight was off me. So I went home and I was led to go to Ezekiel chapter eight. Let me, let me just read because it’s it’s amazing how this dovetailed with the Masonic Lodge.

01:07:47:23 – 01:08:10:14
Okay. Here we are. I’m not going to read. It’s kind of long, but he he says he digging through the wall and he says, you know, and this is in verse 13 of chapter eight, he said to me that this angel or whatever, turn yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do, meeting the elders of Israel.

01:08:10:16 – 01:08:32:03
And he brought me to the gate of the Lord’s house, which is toward the north. And behold, there sat women weeping for Tom, who’s now Tom. Well, this is a false slain and risen God. He’s part of the Masonic pantheon. Then said unto him, has seen this old Son of man turn thee at again, and thou shalt see the greater abominations.

01:08:32:03 – 01:08:50:17
And these and he right now this is critical verse 16. And he brought me to the inner court of the Lord’s house, and behold, the door of the, temple of the Lord between the porch and the altar were about five and 20 men, with their backs toward the temple of the Lord and their faces toward the east.

01:08:50:18 – 01:09:19:14
And they worshiped the sun toward the east. Now why is that important? Well, Masonic Temple was, required to face it, that the Worshipful Master is in the East and he is a symbol of the sun. And all the devotions of the Masonic Lodge face east. That means, theoretically, David had the back to the Ark of the covenant.

01:09:19:20 – 01:09:53:16
They have their back to the truth. And there’s a thing in the sonic ritual when every day have a ritual you go through whenever they open the lodge, you know, every week they open the lodge and they go around. And when they come to the Worshipful Master, it says, as the sun rises in the east to rule and govern, the day, so also rises the Worshipful Master in the East to rule and govern the lodge.

01:09:53:16 – 01:10:22:21
And then the master stands up and he knocks up the lodge, which means he wraps to travel three times and the symbolism is so vivid. When I saw that scripture, because I had been immersed in masonry for nine years, I knew it backwards and forwards, and I realized this was an indictment of the Masonic Lodge. And within a week I sent a letter, the Masonic Lodge and asked to have my name taken off the walls.

01:10:22:23 – 01:10:34:18
There’s so much, and for the sake of time, I know you have to go, so we’ll have to wrap it up. It’s unfortunate because there’s so many things that we could talk about, but you wrote books, you have a bunch of stuff. If people want more detailed, think they can go there, they can find you. I’ll put all the links on the website.

01:10:34:22 – 01:10:51:04
If you go in the description of, of this, this episode, you’ll be able to find all of that. But, to end but I want to ask you and give you this opportunity to give a message. And usually I only ask people one. But for you, I wanted to make it a little bit different because you’ve been in so many different things.

01:10:51:06 – 01:11:00:00
You know, you were, a Satanist, a Freemason and a mormon. So if you had a message to give to each one of these people that are listening today, what would it be?

01:11:00:02 – 01:11:29:20
Well, I mean, let me start with, which is Satanist, I mean, you those people are worshiping power. They they think they are trying to become one with nature, but the power they are trying to, tap is the power of the devil. And I know a lot of these, even some Satanists will say we don’t believe in the devil except as an archetype, as a symbol.

01:11:29:22 – 01:11:58:21
But they’re whistling in the dark. They’re making a grave mistake that can cost them their souls. Because, you know, it doesn’t matter what you think you believe the truth with a capital T is out there, and Yeshua is the way, the truth, and the life. And if you reject him as most witches and Satanists do, then your fate is not good.

01:11:58:23 – 01:12:26:03
It’s not that God is this big meanie in the sky. He’s going to send you to hell. It’s your decision to ignore Christ or to mock Christ, whatever you want to call it. That is a decision that’s going to cost you an eternity in a very dark place, and you don’t want to do that. And essentially that same I would share that same message.

01:12:26:03 – 01:12:58:06
I mean, Mason’s again, a lot of Masons are Christians, but the problem is, you know, like Elijah said to the prophets of Baal in one Kings 18, how long halt you between two opinions? Yes, bail is God. Serve him that the Lord is God. Serve him. The mason. You might be the nicest person you might imagine, but he’s got one.

01:12:58:09 – 01:13:31:07
He’s knelt at the altar. Bail. He may have one knee on the altar of Christ and one knee on the altar of Baal, and these two things are going to drift apart. And in my experience, I’ve been ministering to Freemasons since 1988, and it’s very hard for me for a Christian Mason to keep his testimony strong. It’s very hard because the Masonic lives suck all the spiritual fire off of you.

01:13:31:09 – 01:13:53:01
So you need to get out of it because the devil is after you. And even though it might seem good at the time, you know there’s a way to seems right unto him. But the end thereof is death. And I’d say the same, almost the same thing to the Mormons. I think that the problem is, in the Mormons, you’re totally worshiping a false god.

01:13:53:03 – 01:14:30:12
You’re totally worshiping a false Jesus. You’re following a plan of salvation, which is absolutely false, and you’re in a very dark. I mean, Mormonism is honestly darker than masonry, in my humble opinion. So if you’re in the Mormon church, you kind of feel that evil. But the man at the top of the Mormon church are devil worshipers, and that spiritual power is percolating downward into you and into your family because of the way edge of authority works in in the world.

01:14:30:14 – 01:14:56:08
So again, you need to get out of the Mormon church. You need to find a good Christian church that really believes in the Bible. And, you know, again, renounce it, renounce your baptism. And if you’ve been to the temple, renounce your temple vows and then go and get baptized by a Christian pastor, you know, and you’ll be hopefully on your way.

01:14:56:10 – 01:15:21:23
But, yeah, all three of those paths ultimately will end up the same place, even though the one seemed much darker than the other two. But, the devil disguises himself as an angel of light, Paul tells us so that he can deceive us. So that’s what I would say. Trust in Yeshua Jesus Christ. Don’t trust in Joseph Smith.

01:15:22:01 – 01:15:29:19
Don’t trust in the false Christ of masonry was called high beef and certainly don’t trust in Satan.

01:15:29:21 – 01:15:54:17
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Almost False Podcast. Unfortunately, Bill is a very busy man and I only had a couple hours with him, which is woefully insufficient to talk about everything that he’s experienced. I’m trying to get him on the show again. If that happens, I’ll leave a link in the description. But whether it happens or not, I highly encourage you to go check out his content if you want more in-depth knowledge about what he said in his books on the best place to go, you can find it by clicking the guest info link in the description of this episode.

01:15:54:19 – 01:15:58:20
Thank you again for listening. Hope you learned something. Have a good one and stay blessed.