We’re Euthanizing Minors and Chemically Castrating 8-Year-Olds: Child Sacrifice Returns to the West

By John Zmirak Published on September 19, 2016

This weekend’s report that Belgium has euthanized its first terminally ill child marks a watershed in the West: the overt return of human child sacrifice to our culture’s religious rituals. We have crossed a chasm. The medical execution of a sick Belgian child, and the bizarre, taxpayer-funded experiments that American doctors perform on confused eight and nine-year-olds, wrecking their reproductive systems in the name of transgender ideology, are different even from abortion.

These are not semi-secret actions undertaken by desperate or selfish parents against children not fully seen or even named, whose humanity the doctors could help them to wish away. No, these new ritual sacrifices of visible children in the full light of day, of kids with names and legal citizenship of highly developed countries, are something starkly new, and genuinely religious in the sense that any anthropologist would recognize if they happened in the Amazon.

These violent, destructive decisions which Western-civilized parents have taken toward their children are distinctively religious because they flow not from cynicism or expedience, but are ethically driven choices taken in accord with the highest ideals of our elite culture. In that way, they resemble the Female Genital Mutilation and honor killings that pervade many Muslim countries.

That fact should lead us to think long and hard about the West’s new ideals, where they come from and where they are leading us. The fundamental “truths” that guide contemporary Westerners are the fruit of poorly popularized science, and a Christian image of man watered down to homeopathic doses. Let us start with the basic premises:

  • Modern science has given us a god-like power over nature, including our own nature. We feel that we should be gods.
  • Tragically, we aren’t. In fact, that same science “proves” we are nothing more than brainy beasts, who will die and not live again.

On the face of it, this stretches us on the horns of a painful paradox. Things don’t get any better when we tease out the implications of these basic “truths.”

  • Because we have no sins to atone for, nor souls to hone, suffering is a meaningless horror — indeed, the worst thing in the universe.
  • There may be no model of ultimate Good, but human suffering is pure evil, and animal suffering comes a close second.
  • Diminishing such suffering is the only action we know to be purely good. Anesthetics, antidepressants, and euthanasia, then, should be treated as practical sacraments. So should medical interventions that help the sexually confused to mold their bodies to fit their perceptions.
  • Any worldview that puts up barriers to mitigating such suffering, in the form of moral teachings or assertions about human nature, is evil and must be suppressed. Considerations of “freedom” are completely irrelevant here — they are leftover illusions from discredited religions, like the fear of black cats or broken mirrors.

With all this in mind, we can better understand the decisions of parents and doctors who are willing to actively end some children’s lives, or irreversibly damage their burgeoning sexual organs. These children, like their parents, have no intrinsic dignity or higher spiritual nature. They are merely potential sites for either suffering or pleasure. If we cannot guarantee their pleasure, we at least can end their suffering. Once you’ve redefined humans, it’s the only “humane” thing to do.

Welcome to Year Zero

The resurgence of child sacrifice in the post-Christian West is nothing if not historic. Centuries from now, chroniclers of events may point to 2016 as the year when our new and peculiar religion really took definitive form. Perhaps they’ll hit “reset” on the calendar, and consider this Year Zero. Like you, I feel privileged to be a witness.

G.K. Chesterton’s The Everlasting Man also addressed child sacrifice. In that great work of popular theology, Chesterton views the Punic Wars, between Rome and Carthage, as finally turning not on strategy or tactics, or even economic interests. No, Chesterton sees these conflicts as the war between two fundamental world-views: the benign, if trivial paganism of patriotic Roman farmers, who’d sometimes offer a bread roll to protective “household gods,” versus the cruel cult of wealthy, decadent Carthage, which purchased victory and riches from its bloodthirsty gods with the regular sacrifice of first-born children upon its altars.

That first paganism was foolish and flawed but not Satanic; the world it was creating would be fallen but still remain human, human enough to recognize the God-Man when He was preached there. The basic institutions of government, education, and culture that Rome created would be permeable to the Gospel. It was possible to imagine, and then to create, a Christian Rome.

It would not have been so with Carthage. Had that city and its dark gods conquered the Mediterranean world, the whole of Western culture would have been grounded in ritual murder. Each couple as it got married would see hanging over their heads the monstrous prospect of their first birth — and his or her death.

Chesterton could not imagine how Christianity could have flourished in such a world. So he speculated that God decided to snuff that culture out, giving Romans the rage against Carthage that Hebrew prophets had expressed against the child-sacrificing cults of the Gentiles. The God of both the Covenants rejects such sacrifice as itself the ultimate evil. No surprise, then, that faithful Jews and Christians alike today stand almost alone in rebuking the new religion — which has wrapped up in a scientist’s white lab coat the darkest and foulest superstitions of the ancient world. It’s our job to point out the innocent blood that stains the coat.

 

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John Zmirak is author of The Politically Incorrect Guide to Catholicism.

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  • Elephantinanocean

    Materialism. When you reduce life to just the body, by disregarding the soul this is the kind of thing that will happen. As Christians we must must not get dragged into the debate of Materialism “body” vs spiritualism soul”. We say you can’t have one without the other, the essence of a human person is made up of body, soul, and spirit. I believe we are live in a pre-Christian age, that helps me to put today’s world into perspective.

  • Xavier

    I cried, after reading the CNN link of the children’s death. That’s so, so sad.

    There is no place for suffering in the atheistic/materialistic/Ayn Rand society of our’s. In an atheistic society, at the moment suffering begins, human life has lost its purpose and meaning.

    Suffering has a great value only in Christian faith. We believe in a God who suffered and died on cross. We unite our suffering with that of Christ’s. There is no greater antidote for this world, than Christ crucified, the God who willingly took suffering upon himself.

    • James Stabaum

      suffering has great value? gross

      • Morgan

        or BULLSH!T. Or BOTH.

      • Red Mann

        That was one of Mother Theresa’s attitudes and they made her a saint, go figure.

        • IvanRider

          Read my reply to James Stabaum. I cannot believe you are this ignorant.

          • Red Mann

            Suffering has no use to anyone for any reason. This character building nonsense is simply sick. Forcing someone to endure needless pain and suffering is inhumane. You attitude is that of a sick, perverted mind.
            Sorry, it is you that is abysmally ignorant, yet monumentally arrogant.

          • Xavier

            Only in faith, we know the value of suffering. Our lives have to be perfect, like the father in heaven is. When we offer our pains and sufferings to Lord, it becomes a blessing, a purification for our sins, and eventually we can become perfect like our loving Father in heaven.

          • Red Mann

            Since faith is essentially believing in something with no evidence, then believing that suffering has any kind of positive value is disgusting.
            Just because you believe in the mythical suffering of your mythical Lord and you believe that there is actually such a thing as sin we must be “purified” from, doesn’t mean that you should wish, or imposing suffering on anyone, this is an inhuman attitude. Suffering is never any kind of blessing, only a sick mind could entertain such a thought.

          • James Stabaum

            do you think it is right to ask someone else to suffer, who does not see their suffering as any offering to a god?

        • cstump

          Hard to reason with a man who ridicules Mother Theresa.

          • Marie Zac

            It’s so much more difficult to believe anyone who ridicules a perfect, great and Almighty Lord when He loves them so much.

          • Red Mann

            You don’t get it, atheists are not ridiculing “a perfect, great and Almighty Lord”, we simply have no reason that such a thing even exists, much less loves us. You, religious people, have yet to produce even a scintilla of evidence to support your god or gods that a reasonable, rational mind can accept. The Bible is riddled with myths, lies and inaccuracies and cannot be considered evidence. Anecdotes of a religious experience or a supposed miracle are not evidence. The complexity of the natural world is not evidence for a god. So until you produce some actual, testable evidenced I see no reason to believe the incredibly complicated nonsense of a god.

          • Red Mann

            Anjezë Gonxhe Bojaxhiu was no saint, she deliberately allowed poor Indians to suffer miserably because she thought that it was a good thing. What you have been led to believe about her is mostly a myth. The bigger issue is that there is no real proof of these so-called miracles.

        • Ted

          It’s a humanity thing, you wouldn’t understand.

          • Red Mann

            Oh, I understand humanity alright but Anjezë Gonxhe Bojaxhiu did not, she supported unnecessary suffering because she thought that it was a good thing. Just like a lot of Christians that put human needs below their worship of their god.

        • James Stabaum

          no accounting for taste

      • IvanRider

        It’s a matter of context. The right kinds and amounts build character. Excessive and inappropriate suffering, however, should be reduced or eliminated.

        Enduring till one’s sickness becomes too powerful, rather than cowardly pulling the plug, is a good kind.

        The sadistic torture or abuse of someone by a parent or teacher or employer, however, is to be stopped with extreme prejudice.

        One must read these things maturely.

        • James Stabaum

          what good is character building when the suffering goes on until you are dead? in context, thats the kind of suffering we are talking about

    • Morgan

      My religion believes that needless suffering should be stopped if possible. I just watch an elderly relative die in excruciating pain, and all the while I wished we could have put him out of his misery. We do it for our pets, why not US?

      • parquet

        In other words,
        anyone who might be an inconvenience to you
        should be killed, just like you’d kill a cockroach.

        You got no mind and no heart, nothing. It’s all about you.

  • Ed

    Superbly put. My journey towards the Catholic Church began when my girlfriend at the time started thinking she was pregnant, and I had to decide how I would react if she were. I had a horribly clear mental image of a huge pile of tiny human bones, and a sickening realization that they were the price we were paying for our sexual libertinism.

    Then, the child sacrifices were of a kind that I felt people of goodwill could dispute. But now that it’s visible little children being killed rather than the unborn, it no longer takes an imaginative leap to see what’s happening.

  • Michael Gore

    This is such a stark example of what Romans 1 is talking about.

    Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. (ROM 1:28-32)

    I think it’s clear that we are living in a nation and world under God’s judgement when our society calls killing children a loving act and ending a life is now considered a medical treatment, as if certain types of life were an illness.

    • IvanRider

      And yet, the one time when we ARE called to execute: horrific murderers and child rapists…we instead find every possible excuse to NOT do so! And when someone points out that certain killers and rapists are a special kind of wicked, we simply label the whistleblower a “racist” even if they never mentioned race, as if that somehow sweeps everything away! Futile thinking!

      And then there are some who go the extra mile of stupid: they unless said killers out on the streets, demanding that no questions be asked. If said monsters deserving of execution get in trouble, these leaders whose minds belong to Satan cry for the “plight” of the monsters! But shed not ONE tear for the innocent victims that were cut to pieces, raped, and/or eaten by said monsters! And then, they hurl insults at those who DO show sympathy for the *actual* victims – by labeling the sympathetic “racist” for missing their own loved ones!

      That’s why I vote Constitution Party today. I feel the two major parties are both veering dangerously close to becoming manifestations of pure evil. The GOP is corrupt and inept, and the DNC betrays itself by using the Bible to determine its own priorities checklist: by simply making their agenda the opposite of God’s! They barely even hide it anymore!

      • Michael Gore

        Ivan, I take it that you would consider yourself a Christian from the overall replies I’ve read, but I’m a little concerned with the tone and some of the content of your posts. Remember that we are called to be conformed to the image of Christ. The message of the Gospel is offensive enough to those who are perishing, we should not be adding to that by our tone or demeanor. If you are not opposing the ideas you argue against out of love for the people held captive by them, then you should really examine your motivations. I say this out of a desire to help you be an effective ambassador for Christ, so please take it in the manner intended.

        “Know this, my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger; for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God” – (James 1:19-20)

  • MacroNana

    I cried when I first read that report. What have we become? This practice is here, in the USA. I am so appalled. I think the pulpits should return to the Bible, and stop with all the trappings of respectability, and preach the Word.

    God have mercy upon us.

    • Morgan

      They do, every single day of the week. So go to church and hear preaching all you want. I’ll take a pass.

      • parquet

        You’re not missed at all. Hang out with your own kind, people with no compassion or respect for others.

        • Red Mann

          HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! From what I’ve seen of your infantile comments, I would not want to hang around you and you have the arrogance to call someone out for lack of respect? Incredible.

          • Marie Zac

            Anger spewing again. That’s all you’ve accomplished here, sir or ma’am. You’re certainly not spreading your atheistic “gospel” with an ounce of success. God loves you.

          • Red Mann

            Yes, I am angry with people that use their unfounded faith in superstition to attack others, that try to force their views on others, that use lies on a regular basis to spread their views.
            There is a very good book explaining why atheists are so angry with Christians; Why Are You Atheists So Angry? 99 Things That Piss Off the Godless by Greta Christina. I would suggest you read it, but I’m fairly sure you won’t. There are dozens of other books detailing the problems with religion such as Dawkins The God Delusion or Hitchens Religion Poisons Everything but they will challenge your belief too much.

          • Liz Litts

            Dawkins and Hitchens are laughing stocks right now—real Atheists are embarassed by them.

          • Red Mann

            Some of their personal views are disliked by other atheists but that has nothing to do with the valid points they have made. We don’t treat them as saints or bishops, just as fellow humans with whom we agree on some things and disagree on others. Hitchens will never be a laughing stock to intelligent, rational people. Of course you have to believe they are to support your views.

    • Marie Zac

      But truth is being taught in the pulpits. Why do you bring question to that truth, when we have so many wonderful Bible – based churches everywhere?

  • ProLife85

    How do antidepressants qualify in the same category as euthanasia? Are they over-prescribed, yes, but as someone who literally could not function because of horrible *physical* anxiety, they helped me live my life again – not numb my life. Let’s also mention the fact that our elderly are being euthanized behind our backs in so-called “hospice” centers.

    • Zmirak

      I didn’t mean to imply I’m against antidepressants–or anesthetics, for that matter. As someone born with lousy teeth I’m a big fan of the latter. But they shouldn’t be treated as “practical sacraments,” as I think you’ll agree.

      • ProLife85

        Thank you for directly responding – I agree exactly. Thanks for the clarification.

  • mumzieistired

    “You will be like God” is the oldest lie in the book.

    • Morgan

      Sure, since no “god” has been proven to exist. You can’t “be like” something that isn’t there.

      • legally blonde

        One thing atheist always fail to understand is that God existence isn’t some sort popularity contest. Even if no one believes…God will still exist.

        Even you know God exists, why else would you be so angry?

        • Red Mann

          Wrong, there is no evidence that any god or gods exists or ever existed. Gods were created in the image of man as perhaps answers to things primitive humans could not understand or as a means to control the population. In any event there has been no believable evidence ever shown that supports any god or gods.
          We are not angry at a non-existent being, we are angry at the humans who do evil in the name of their supposed gods. It is only humans that can act on their beliefs since there are no gods to do it. Since there are tens of thousands of religions, past and present, what is the criteria you use to decide that your god and yours alone exists and is the “One True God”?

          • Michael Gore

            You seem pretty impassioned about your opinions on these matters, but I can’t help but wonder how coherent your worldview is as an atheist. You say that as Christians, people like me don’t have a clue about what atheists believe, so maybe you could clarify.

            You seem to be making a lot of very charged moral statements about God and religions in general, so I have a couple questions about the subject:

            You keep talking about evil, but what exactly does it mean for something to be Evil or Good in a purely material universe? What is the standard by which you would compare things to in order to determine if something even is Good or Evil?

            If your standard is a universal objective one, how could it exist in an only physical world?

            If your standard is not universal, and is derived from human opinion/consensus and/or natural processes like evolution, then how can it be considered to be binding or meaningful on anyone?

            Hopefully we can have a discussion with a little less heat in it if you are willing, as there has been a lot of poor representation of both worldviews in this conversation so far. Thanks!

          • Red Mann

            Well, I was immersed in religion, Northern Conservative Baptist, Sunday School, Daily Vacation Bible School, baptized, choir, prayer meetings, the whole works. As I grew up I began to realize that a lot I was being taught could not be true, I couldn’t except that my Catholic friends were going to Hell because they didn’t believe as we did, the evolution was not true because of the stories in Genesis. I started to notice the hypocrisy of too many church members. Lots of thing didn’t add up, so I simply drifted away. Eventually I realized that there was no evidence to support the notion of any god or gods yet Christians, because I lived in Christian dominated countries, would make all kinds of absolute claims and create all kinds of rules based solely on this unsupported belief. When the “Moral Majority” started to actively interfere with politics and attempting to force their particular views on the entire country, I started to bristle, this was against the intent of the Constitution. Then came 9/11, the most dramatic example in modern times of religious fantasies causing massive death and destruction. Now we see the vicious attacks on LGBT, based on unfounded beliefs and supported by lies, hate and fear-mongering. I see David Barton, who has tremendous influence in the Republican Party, blatantly lying about American history, I see Tony Perkins blatantly lying about virtually everything, I see Bryan Fischer, Kevin Swanson, Rick Wilkes, James Dobson and a legion of others lying in the name of Christianity. Now the Republican Party has become God’s Own Party, led by politicians with theocratic tendencies. I see the egregious behavior in North Carolina, based on the Republican religion. I hear Christians tell me, with absolute certainty, that I am going to burn in their mythical hell or I’ll regret my actions and beliefs on the equally mythical Judgement Day.
            The biggest problem with religious belief is that is both wishful and magical thinking that turns people away from reality, from making critical assessment of facts, from seeking to solve real world problems. Look at the notion of climate change influenced by humans, elected Congressmen have stood in Congress saying it can’r be real because their god said so in his book, a book that is mostly borrowed myths and made up nonsense, yet they use this highly dubious source as a guide to the future.
            The logical conclusion of this surge of religious interference in government is what we find in Iran, religious leaders in absolute control.
            Science is a tool invented by humans to help us understand the real world around us, it is a decently reliable method and has worked quite well. We have a good handle on how things have happened in the past, how the universe was formed, how the natural world works and nowhere is there any evidence for, or need to invoke the idea, of any god or gods. Humans have a bug in their brains that wants to believe in some “higher power”, some “spiritual plane”, but there is no reason to believe it to be true. Of course religious people see this as a feature.
            There is much more to be said on this subject and books have been written on it, but people who have “faith” won’t accept it as the truth because they are committed to their fantasies and it’s very hard to let go of the nonsense stuffed into their heads as children, I know this as a fact since I had to overcome that nonsense. When I was a child, I believed as a child, now that I am a man I think like a man and that excludes superstitious nonsense.

          • Michael Gore

            I appreciate the background, and I can commiserate with you on some of your complaints about the culture in general. None of your objections that you state in your story seem to be directly related to whether Christianity is true or not…

            1. Not liking that Christianity states that some people will go to Hell does not make it untrue.

            2. Christians being hypocritical, especially nominal or cultural Christians, does not make Christianity untrue. Make sure if you are being critical of “how Christians are” you check to see if they are actually representative of Christianity. Not to mention there are plenty of people I would accept as fellow Christians that I will disagree with politically or on theological points without having the need to cast them out. There is no reason to think somebody who is a Christian is always right about everything, even from our worldview.

            3. 9/11 says nothing about whether Christianity is untrue.

            4. I would share the statement other Christians have told you that if you remain in rebellion to God, the Creator of the Universe, Hell will be your destination. Telling God you didn’t believe in him is not going to make any difference in the sentence any more than telling a judge that you didn’t know you were breaking the law would give you a not-guilty verdict in a court. I would hope that any Christian who has warned you of a coming judgement has done so out of love and concern for you as a valuable person made in God’s image and not out of any kind of malice or spite. That would be in contradiction to what we are called to do. However a Christian telling you about judgement doesn’t make Christianity untrue.

            5. Science is certainly a great tool for humanity to explore and learn from our physical world, but we have to acknowledge that Science is limited to the physical world, and while it can provide data is unable to rule on non-material issues, such as morality, logic, mathematics, and whether God exists.

            6. You seemed to be overburdened with bias of your own, much like you would accuse people of “faith” of having. Do you see yourself as an open minded person, who has actually listened to both sides of these issues? I don’t find many atheists who actually are. Have you read the best that our side has to offer or do you feel like there is nothing to be gained from understanding the other side of an argument? Do you actually have any understanding of orthodox Christian doctrine or our reasons for our beliefs? You seem to be attacking a lot of straw men in your posts.

            7. I am not sure if it was intentional, but you completely seemed to ignore the actual questions I posed about the subject of morality. Do you have a coherent way to ground morality within an Atheistic framework?

            Thanks for the time!

          • Red Mann

            I don’t have to show that your beliefs in god or gods is untrue, you have to provide solid, convincing evidence that they do exist. I’m not trying to prove Christianity is untrue, just showing the variety of evil done in the name of gods and religion and why atheists are upset with religion and especially religious people.
            Christianity is a set of beliefs and rules based on the existence of a demi-god named Jesus as described in the New Testament, so the truth of Christianity rests on the New Testament and the supposed fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies. The veracity of the New Testament is called into question because all we know of the Gospel authors is some names assigned to them. There is no external corroboration for the alleged divinity of this Jesus, there is no external corroboration of the Bethlehem star, there is no corroboration of Herod’s supposed slaughter of the children, the same with the supposed miracles. There is no corroboration of earthquakes, the tearing of the curtain in the temple, the walking dead or the resurrection of this Jesus. These are only found in the Bible and because of the unlikelihood of such things actually occurring and no actual evidence, there is no reason to believe they happened.
            These are extraordinary claims and, as such, require extraordinary evidence and I don’t see even the weakest of evidence, just uncorroborated stories.
            We know that Paul existed, but he could never have met Jesus, except in visions and he said things he believed, again with no reason to believe him.
            As for The Revelation, it really sounds like something that someone on a wild drug induced dream would come up with so weird and unlikely that it is truly unbelievable.
            The vaunted Christian faith is actually believing things not in evidence and hoping they are true. What criteria do you use to decide which unevidenced things that you believe? There is no objective template, only subjective belief. Faith leads poeple to not question, stifles curiosity and makes it easier to control people.
            Morality is basically the system of rules and behavior that a social species must have to survive. We see the roots of such behavior in primates, even in wolf packs. Rampant stealing, murder and lying would destroy the group and without being able to live in groups, humans could not have survived. There is no need of some external god, it comes from within humans, evolving from necessity. Atheists tend to do what is the right thing to do that supports and helps others because it is the right thing to do, not because some god is going to punish them, that is a weak morality, driven by fear.
            If your god gave you morals why was it considered moral to own slaves? Christianity had no problem with slavery from its inception until less the two hundred years ago. The is direct support of slavery in the Old Testament and nothing condemning it in the New. The Bible was used to justify slavery right up until Abolition. The same with the subjugation of women, justified, even commanded by the Bible, the same with miscegenation, right up until 1964, the Bible was used to support forbidding marriage between blacks and whites.
            So your absolute morality, given by an unchanging god is false, morality changes with the times. We now consider public executions immoral, many consider execution itself immoral. Horsewhipping offenders in public was once considered moral, forcing people to attend church was moral. In the extreme killing witches and heretics was moral by the churches at the time.
            Science is attacked by some extreme sects because it undermines their stories hence their reason to believe. Without the Original Sin of Adam and Eve, there would be no justification for the need of a redeemer to remove that sin, so no need for your god to kill a part of himself to remove the sin that he, himself caused to happen. You god can’t be all you claim is he didn’t know what Eve would do when he allowed her to be tempted. The horrific meaning of the flood is pure barbarism. Your god slaughtered all but a handful of living things because they did things he did like. If he is omniscient, he would have already knew what they would do, if he is omnipotent, he could have stopped it. Since he did neither, than why call him god? The simpler explanation is that it is a myth borrowed from older cultures when the Israelite were captive in Babylon. We know that the Exodus stories never happened, we know there was no invasion of “The Promised Land”, the Hebrews rose from the Canaanites, in Canaan itself.
            So the underpinnings of your beliefs are all highly suspect and you have no evidence that your god exists, but you have no trouble boldly proclaiming that you have the truth and that everyone should believe as you do, and many, even today are quite willing to use coercion to force their beliefs on us all. Christianity, like Islam, is a Triumphalist religion that was spread by forced conversion, at the point of a sword if necessary, forced belief is not true belief.

          • Michael Gore

            You are shooting right past my challenge here and just throwing out everything like spaghetti here.

            What I asked is how do you establish any grounds to state all of these moral claims on the basis of atheism? Do you or do you not have any coherent justification to call anything good or evil?

            So far the only comments on morality you have offered that seem to be making a case are the following:
            “Morality is basically the system of rules and behavior that a social species must have to survive. We see the roots of such behavior in primates, even in wolf packs. Rampant stealing, murder and lying would destroy the group and without being able to live in groups, humans could not have survived. There is no need of some external god, it comes from within humans, evolving from necessity. Atheists tend to do what is the right thing to do that supports and helps others because it is the right thing to do, not because some god is going to punish them, that is a weak morality, driven by fear.”

            But this is not morality, it is merely how to evaluate whether a behavior is beneficial to group survival of a particular group. How do you make the leap in logic from utilitarian behavior to any meaningfully coherent definition of evil?

            “Atheists tend to do what is the right thing to do that supports and helps others because it is the right thing to do, not because some god is going to punish them…” – This is completely incoherent. If the right thing to do is what is best for the survival of a particular group, then there are many things that you would call evil which would actually fall under the category of good for the ones doing it. After all, while it was evil for the Jews, the holocaust was seen as a Good thing for the Nazis because they believed they were eliminating the unfit of their society who were taking up valuable resources they saw as belonging to the “Arians”. In that definition of morality, do you have any authority or ground to stand on to call them evil?

          • Red Mann

            No, I am not “shooting past” anything. I am expressing what I know and believe to address your insistence that the is a god and that god alone determines morality. If I were writing a thesis instead of a blog comment, I would take the time to rewrite and order my comments better but I am not going to do that. If you can’t figure it out it is not my fault.
            What I described is the basis for what we call morality, it can be the only source unless one buys the notion of a god as a lawgiver and no one has provided any evidence for that.
            Good and evil are precisely what humans define them to be, they are human constructs, created by human minds.
            We generally define good as actions that help and benefit society and the people in it and evil as actions that harm society and the people in it. It doesn’t have to be more complicated than that.
            There is no external source of morality, only humans minds.
            You have to believe in an external morality because you need it to justify your belief in some god, this is what is actually incoherent.
            Your seeming corundum with the Jews and Nazis differing views of morality is what you would expect when a culture defines what is considered to be moral behavior. Why do you insist that has to be some external authority to define what is moral? Did you miss my remarks on the changing morality of the Christian church over time? Do you still believe that there is some source of never changing, absolute morality outside of human beings?
            The Euthyphro dilemma disappears when we realize that there is no god in the first place as does the Problem of Evil. You insist on all these extraneous entities that simply cloud the issue and provide nothing positive.
            It seems you can’t face the idea that there may be no god and all you believe is just thin air. It can seems scary at first but in the long run it is the most satisfying conclusion.

          • Michael Gore

            Your view on morality is inconsistent and incoherent.

            “Good and evil are precisely what humans define them to be, they are human constructs, created by human minds.” – if this is true, then all your statements about Good and Evil can be nothing more than just personal opinion. It doesn’t matter what percentage of people hold a similar view, it’s just a “human construct”. There is no OUGHT to that kind of morality, no obligation to abide by someone else’s view of morality, yet you are constantly making moral accusations about Christians and other religious believers, as if it is more than just your opinion.

            Should we just treat your claims about the morality of these things as being on the same level as your preference of food, or even what kind of music you like? How could it be any more important to anyone else on your definition of it?

            When you say we generally define good as actions that help and benefit society, you are importing presuppositions of helping and benefiting to be morally praiseworthy actions. You cannot just smuggle in a moral standard to start with, you need to justify why it is one in the first place. You are better off just sticking with the “morals are a human construct viewpoint”. But then that leaves anyone who disagrees with you free to just reject your construct in favor of their own. That’s fine if you do but live consistent with it then. I don’t think you can.

            I don’t believe in God, specifically the God of the Bible, because I’m scared or need some kind of crutch, but because I believe it is true and reflects the world as it really is. Atheism is an incoherent view and it is rare to see an atheist actually live consistently with the conclusions that follow from it.

          • Red Mann

            Sorry Michael, but it is your belief in a god and that this god provides an unchanging moral structure that is inconsistent and incoherent. Once again the is no tangible evidence for the existence of any god and there are plenty of rational reasons not to believe in such a thing, especially the specific god of the Abrahamic religions. There is nothing in the natural world that reflects any kind of supernatural entity, we now understand pretty well how nature works and how things have come about and there is no need to introduce any extraneous entities.
            Really, there are only humans that create what you call morals, only humans that create the notion of gods and all the baggage that goes with them, only humans that can take good or evil actions.
            You refuse to accept reality because your mind has been fogged by religion, religion that you have invested you ego in, religion that directs your worldview.
            My conclusions are based on observable reality, not some unsupported imaginings of an improbable being. Again there are tens of thousands of religious beliefs, all of which are considered to be the one, true religion. How did you determine that the one you believe in is the true one? There is the same amount of evidence for each of these religions, none, so why do you believe this set of beliefs with no evidence? We know that most people just follow the religion they are brought up with, most likely because they are indoctrinated with the fanciful beliefs as children before they have developed reasoning and critical thinking. I know that this deep programming is hard to overcome, but your mind is chained by these beliefs, locked off from the real beauty and joy of reality with all its warts.

          • Michael Gore

            Listen, if all you are going to do is preach, and not even interact with any of my challenges, you are welcome to it, but I don’t think you have done anything to dissuade me of the conclusion that you cannot maintain any meaningful moral framework if you are consistent with Atheism.

            I’ve pointed out what I see as an inconsistency and made some points in that regard. If all you want to do back is tell me what I’m really thinking and assert your worldview without backing it up, go ahead, but even internally in your explanation, I don’t see any coherency.

            Thanks, it’s been instructive!

          • Red Mann

            I have tried to explain how I, and many others, see morality, as a strictly human enterprise, that changes over time and place, but you want some kind of fixed framework based on some external being and I simply can’t accept that notion. I have been completely consistent that what you call morals are the product of human cultures, I have pointed out how they have changed over time, including Christian morals. I don’t know how to make it any clearer, no gods, no giver of morals, no fixed moral structure. Just a social contract that allows humans to live and work with one another. I guess the concept of Rule of Law, human laws, is as close to the kind of framework you desire. As long as you need a god to guide your morals, I can’t reach you.

          • Michael Gore

            My only point, and I’ll leave it at this, is that a social contract is merely the opinion of a group. The only way for that kind of morality to be binding is if people either self limit to it, or if it is applied by force.

            Yet you (and most atheists) continue to make moral claims against a group of people (Christians for example) who reject your system of morality. So either you have to get us to agree to your standards (won’t happen) or you have to apply it by force, or you just have to accept that we have different standards. Yet NO atheist actually lives this way. You say our beliefs are wrong and we OUGHT to change them, but you don’t have any grounding to insist that. You say that you don’t like religious people pushing their beliefs and morality on people, but that seems to be what you are doing in a majority of your posting. Insisting that others are WRONG in their beliefs, and that they OUGHT to believe as you do.

            That is why I claim you are being inconsistent. My worldview allows for an objective standard of morality that supersedes humans, which all humans can look to as the standard (God’s Character) and has the authority to hold all people accountable to that standard. If you don’t believe in God, I understand, but at least my viewpoint on morality is consistent and coherent within my worldview.

            Thanks!

          • Red Mann

            Of course it is the opinion of the group based on the groups beliefs and the underlying need for survival. The only time morals are forced on people is when religion does it. I reject your notion that morality is somehow external, presumably from some god. Here’s the problem, you claim your god is eternal, unchanging, who knows all that has ever been and all that will ever be, yet we know for a fact that what Christianity has considered moral has changed over time and place. How can this be?
            Yes, religion affects what is seen as moral, but that doesn’t make religion true, just dominating. Ancient religions were just as dominating and considered to be just as true, yet theirs and yours can’t both be true, but they both can be wrong.
            You have not told me were you think morals come from and what the standard is and whether they can change over time.

          • Cathy Pool

            Why would it make you mad that a Christian would tell you that you’ll burn in hell if there’s no hell?

          • Red Mann

            Because they actually desire that I suffer unspeakable pain for eternity, why else would they say such a disgusting thing?

      • Jcp311

        Yawn…Athiest says Athiest things.

        • oldagg

          And it always amazes me why they are continually so mad at someone they don’t even think exist! And do you notice the only God they ever rave about is the Christian one??

          • Red Mann

            It always amazes me that Christians don’t have a clue on what atheists believe and think, but feel perfect confident in making erroneous statements. As I said previously we are not angry at a non-existent being, we are angry at the humans who do evil in the name of their supposed gods.
            Since Christianity dominates Western culture and has always attacked atheists, with death in older days, now just with death threats and cries of “you’ll burn in Hell!” or “Just wait until you stand before God on Judgement Day!” and other such nonsense, it stands to reason that it is Christianity we mostly speak against, but in general we believe in no god or gods whatsoever because there is no credible reason to. Islam is also one of the evil, murderous religions carrying on after Christianity had its teeth pulled and could no longer hang people or burn them alive. Of course not all religions are so determined to override everything, they just keep quiet and worship as they see fit, so we don’t bother with them so much since they are not busily attacking us.

          • Cathy Pool

            Wait until the Muslims get ahold of you.

          • Red Mann

            So all Muslims want to kill Christians do they? Well some do, Islam has more than its fair share of fanatics and, unlike fanatical Christians, they are more willing to carry out their threats. That being said, the majority of Muslims would not commit murder. I worked with Muslims on a daily basis back in the 80s and lived in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia for a couple of months.
            Many of the Muslims I knew were practicing Muslims because they had no choice, but a lot were only paying lip service, as do many of our Christians.
            But what drives their fanaticism is the same thing drives Christian, Jewish, Hindu fanaticism, unquestioning religious belief.
            When you allow yourself to blindly accept what your preacher, imam, rabbi or other religious leader, you can be led to do almost anything. Most, but not all, American Christians have some sense of doubt about what the fanatics are doing, and would not rise up against their neighbors, but as religious fanaticism increases, the chances of that increase.
            The right spreads idiotic lies about the non-existent threat of Sharia law in the US. The notion that less than 1% of our population could override US laws and replace them with Islamic law is beyond ridiculous. The application of Sharia law to internal Muslim issues is not different from what the Jews have been doing for decades and has no effect on our laws. There is actually more danger from the Reconstructionists Christians that preach replacing “man’s law”, the US laws we now have, with the “Laws” from the Bible, specifically with all the “laws” of the Old Testament, including all the capital punishment ones, using stoning. The Dominionists (Seven Mountain) believe that their version of Christianity must take control over Religion, Family, Education, Government, Media, Arts & Entertainment and Business for Jesus to come back, this, of course, is pure theocracy. Both of these groups are deeply involved with the Republican Party.
            Beam and mote, beam and mote.

      • IvanRider

        Why is there a spiral fingerprint of Him evident in everything from our fingerprints to the shapes of galaxies and even the shapes of quarks??? Why was Pharoah’s drowned army found? Why did they find Solomon’s temple’s remains???

        He’s practically taunting you. Yet, you ram your head in the sand as fast as it will go down there.

        • Red Mann

          Because spirals are a natural form that matter assumes under many circumstances which are well defined. Please point to real evidence that Pharaoh’s army was found drowned.
          So Solomon may have existed and built a temple, that does not prove any god, just a guy who built a building, happens all the time, no magic required.

      • Cathy Pool

        It’s not proven, it’s experienced. But you surely can’t experience his love with a cold closed smug heart.

      • mumzieistired

        I hope that someday you will find him, even without proof. He loves you more than you can even imagine.

    • Marie Zac

      Where does it say “You will be like God”?

      • mumzieistired

        Genesis 3:5

  • Morgan

    Uh, I seem to recall the ancient Hebrews were quite well-known for CHILD sacrifice, including the one Abraham was ordered by Yahweh to do. The child in Belgium, as I understand it, was terminally ill and requested euthanization. Maybe buy-bull thumpers should stick mind their own business and start doing some of the things their god told them to—like helping to FEED CHILDREN.

    • Shaune Scott

      My church feeds children, the homeless, families who have fallen on hard times; builds Habitat houses every year; assists women in crisis pregnancies; provides financial assistance to the elderly; has lawyers, doctors and other professionals who do pro bono work; makes scholarships available to the Parish school; provides full back-to-school back-packs to children in the local migrant community; buys and delivers Thanksgiving and Easter dinners to poor families; purchases hundreds of toys for needy children every year. Can you make additional suggestions where we might be of service?

      • Marie Zac

        May I add? The church reaches out to the broken hearted, and these angry responders are those that Christ died for. Pray for them.

        • Shaune Scott

          Marie, you are right. In writing of the corporal acts of mercy, I completely overlooked the spiritual acts of mercy. Thank you for reminding me. My answer was lacking in humility. Pax vobiscum, my sister in Christ.

          • Cathy Pool

            You sound like you’re Catholic, if not, my apologies. I’m Catholic and we do all you mentioned in our churches.

          • Shaune Scott

            i am indeed Catholic, Cathy, and I’m happy to know that your parish also serves. Pax vobiscum, my sister in Christ!

      • windskisong

        Sounds like you’re in a church like mine, like most growing churches, that are helping people with their physical AND spiritual destitution. That is the right response to those like Morgan.

        • Shaune Scott

          Indeed, we must address physical and spiritual needs, because we are all in need of every kind of healing.

    • oldagg

      You will note that Abraham did not complete the deed….the God who ordered it – stopped it – because child sacrifice was never the point of the whole exercise; which you would know if you gave it only a cursory reading.

    • cstump

      The Church has fed, clothed and sheltered more children than all other institutions combined. We are not about to start sacrificing them for the convenience of others now.

    • Cathy Pool

      Christians give millions more in charity than lefty’s do. It’s the Christians who risk their life going into the third world to feed and medicate the poor.

      Why do you think this is none of our business?

      What makes you think that you can tell us what is or what isn’t our business?

      Your smugness won’t work with me.

  • vforba

    How do you figure the first paganism was not satanic? You don’t think they knew about Satan back then? Don’t be so naive. Why do you think they were sacrificing children to begin with!

  • Red Mann

    This euthanasia was performed with consent of the child, the law requires that the child understand what “euthanasia” means, a child with an incurable disease that made the quality of life unsupportable. Who are you to judge this? Didn’t your god tell you not to judge others? As far as gender reassignments, these are not done to “confused” kids at the whim of some doctor, they are the result of consultations with the child, the parents and the doctors and seek the best outcome for the child. Again, who are you to judge? You keep trying to insert your religion into everything as if your religion is explicitly the only one that counts and all must give way to it. Not true, and despite your judgmental, arrogant beliefs, these other people are as moral, if not more so, as you. Many very, very bad things have been done in the name of your religion, and others, yet you feel justified in pontificating to others?

    • Resister

      That’s a lot of BS in one paragraph! So you’re one of the idiots that can’t figure out which bathroom to use! How stupid is that?

      • Red Mann

        What a mature, reasoned response. Still can’t figure out the gender thing yet, but then I don’t expect you ever will. Simplistic thinking on complex
        problems.

        • localhistorywriter

          Did you wander out of the nursing home again, granny?

          Is that photo your face or your assho/e?

          • Red Mann

            What is it with you fine Christians, that you can’t even approach adult conversation, just stupid, childish insults that I would expect on a 1st grade playground.

          • Marie Zac

            In reading your gibberish, I believe you are a mere plant here. A very angry one at that. My heart actually goes out to you. You are so bigoted and biased, and satan is enjoying using you in his hopeless aim to destroy all the beauty of life created by a God, who loves you. Your life is pitiful to say the least.

          • Red Mann

            Here we go with the needless insults. Just because you are tied to you superstitious fantasies does not make expression of reality gibberish. I am not a “plant”, I found a link to this site on another one and came to read about the wild claim that “Child Sacrifices” are occurring and found what I suspected, distortions of reality, sprinkled with some lies.
            Sorry but there is no more evidence for Satan than your god or any of the other tens of thousands of other gods that humans have dreamed up over the years. You god didn’t create life, natural processes did, no evil entity is trying to destroy the beauty of life, only humans are capable of that. Evil exists alright but it is only in the minds and actions of human beings.
            My life is not pitiful, I just don’t believe in suffocating nonsense of religion and gods. I see plenty of beauty in the world, both natural and man made, as well as a lot of man made evil. Natural processes cannot be consider evil because evil requires intent and, as far as we know, only humans have that.
            I feel sorry for your stilted little life, worshiping a non existent being afraid of a non existent hell, so sad.

          • Cathy Pool

            All I’ve seen is people responding politely and intelligently to you. But, since we don’t agree with you, you do the usual smug thing and dismiss it all. Aw, the party of love and acceptance.

          • Red Mann

            Sorry Cathy, I’ve had extremely foolish and childish comments throw at me and, again, sorry, but most of the response have not been intelligent or polite. Most have been based on ignorance of how things actually work and the arrogance of thinking you know you are smarter than people who actually study a field. I dismiss your ignorance and unwillingness to actual question what you have been told and go find out the real answers. I dismiss appeals to your god and your Bible as meaningless to the real issues. You, of course, think that denying your god is arrogant, but it is not.

          • Red Mann

            Resister: That’s a lot of BS in one paragraph! So your one of the idiots that can’t figure out which bathroom! How stupid is that?
            Marie Zac: In reading your gibberish, I believe you are a mere plant here. A very angry one at that. My heart actually goes out to you. You are so bigoted and biased, and satan is enjoying using you in his hopeless aim to destroy all the beauty of life created by a God, who loves you. Your life is pitiful to say the least.
            IvanRider: Read my reply to James Stabaum. I cannot believe you are this ignorant.
            You, Cathy: God killed the evil people, like you.
            Ted: It’s a humanity thing, you wouldn’t understand.
            Resister: You have science mixed up with pseudo-science. There is not a dammed bit of real evidence backing up anything you clowns are pushing. You run entirely on the proposition that if you keep saying the same lies it will become the truth. Now you people are getting so pissed that other people are not towing your BS line that you want to have them locked up. Only the simple minded are going along and it burns your backside up! You’ve proceeded to drag the mental patients out of the asylum and are trying to convince the sane people that they are just fine. Good luck with that Skippy!
            There’s more Cathy, but you get the drift. So much politeness and intelligence in these responses.

        • Resister

          I figured out the gender thing as a little kid. There are two of them. It’s just that simple. The pathetic thing is an old fart still hasn’t figured it out.

          • Red Mann

            You think you figured it out but you were wrong. Your “thinking” was based on a simplistic view of biology and binary thinking. People who actually understand such things know that gender is on a continuum. The pathetic thing is that so many people refuse to learn things, clinging instead to uninformed and wrong positions for their entire lives.

          • Resister

            “People who actually understand” yeah those same delusional people that can’t figure out which restroom to use? You leftists have taken yourselves so far down the White Rabbit hole you can’t find your way out anymore. So the human race has been “uninformed and wrong” all of history until you clowns came along…rrright!

          • Red Mann

            Simplistic solutions to complex problems. Yeah the “human race” has been wrong for millennia because they didn’t know how things worked, angry gods caused volcanoes and earthquakes, bad air caused disease, there were actually witches, the Sun went around the Earth. What came along was science and a way to understand and explain how things actually work. Of course this has left the troglodytes in the dust still clinging to false notions.

          • Resister

            You have science mixed up with pseudo-science. There is not a dammed bit of real evidence backing up anything you clowns are pushing. You run entirely on the proposition that if you keep saying the same lies it will become the truth. Now you people are getting so pissed that other people are not towing your BS line that you want to have them locked up. Only the simple minded are going along and it burns your backside up! You’ve proceeded to drag the mental patients out of the asylum and are trying to convince the sane people that they are just fine. Good luck with that Skippy!

          • Red Mann

            Actually all the evidence backs up current science, scads of it, mountains of it, evidence from multiple sources, checked, rechecked, peer reviewed, reviewed again, challenges and attacked by other scientists to arrive at the best explanation of ALL the evidence,
            Pseudo-science is something like Intelligent Design which talks all sciencey but has no substance. Pseudo-science is denying the human effects on climate change.
            Everything in your ridiculous screed is projection because you are describing what religion has done and is doing when it is challenged.
            Tell the same old lies while claiming them to be truth.
            Lock up or humiliate those that disagree with you.
            Simple minds go along with the BS.

            Science works, it has ALL the evidence, it is reality.
            Hate to break it to you, Skippy, you are the one with the stupid delusions, but what can you expect from an uneducated, yet arrogant, clown.

          • Resister

            “Pseudo-science is denying the human effects on climate change.” I’ll give you some science on that Skippy. There is a big FN orange ball in the sky that contains 98.6 % of the mass of our solar system. That is what controls how hot or cold it gets in the entire solar system. One of the really inconvenient things you people love to ignore is that the changes in the temperature on the earth have been mirrored by changes on all the other planets. So the new BS you’ll have to come up with WTF is running all those SUVs on those planets.

          • Red Mann

            No, that’s not how it works. That would be true, if we had no atmosphere. The biggest effect on the Earth’s temperature are the greenhouse gases, they help retain the heat radiated from the Earth’s surface, this causes both the air and the temperature of the oceans to change and right now they are heating at an alarming rate.. What controls the surface temperature is the retention of heat by the troposphere and the boundary where atmospheric heat is lost to space. When greenhouse gases, primarily CO2, are increased the heat exchange boundary moves higher and the amount of heat trapped increases.
            The direct solar input does not regulate the atmospheric temperature, it it the re-radiation from the Earth.
            I don’t know where you learned your “science”, but I would ask for a refund, the rest of us learned the basics of how the atmosphere retains heat in grade school.

          • Resister

            Yes that is how it works Skippy! EVERY FN Planet has some atmosphere! It may suck for humans but it is there! Didn’t they teach you that in grade school? And every planet is having a mirror of the temperature changes here! I know you hate that because it blows your case right out of the water. Yeah right out of the most casual greenhouse gas, water vapor. Let’s ban water vapor! No let’s tax water vapor! You are taking a very small mover and escalating it to the major mover just like your models (that don’t follow real measurements) do! Of the solar systems mass we are a spec of what is left over from the Sun’s 98.6%. That big orange ball heats up the earth every day with a drastic change in temperature over the course of the day and the planet cools off is much the same drastic manner overnight. Why don’t your “scientists” models work? Why do they keep cheating the data? If they were not cheating every time they put out a new chart they may not be rejected so much from our side of this argument. Only gullible people keep believing what repeated liars try to sell. And that is the only thing about this crap that does make sense, it’s a sell! They are trying to sell us a tax on the one item that is in everything and is generated by all viable power sources except nuclear power which none of you green guys want to use. Funny thing that isn’t it? Who would want to be able to attach a tax to everything? Uncle Slam!

          • Cathy Pool

            True. Our world has been going in and out of ice ages for millions of years. There has been many times our globe had no ice whatsoever.

          • Red Mann

            Yes, and we understand that, but it is obvious that the changes since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution and especially since the mass consumption of fossil fuels cannot not be explained by any natural phenomenon. We know of massive volcanism in the past that lead to worldwide warming because of the massive greenhouse gases released.
            When the sea level continues to rise and our coastal cities are destroyed, the world is wracked with famine, water shortages and wars because we let foolish beliefs stop any action to alleviate the problem, the survivors will wonder why we let this happen.

          • Cathy Pool

            Doctor Richard Horton, Editor in Chief, of one of the world’s most prestigious medical journals, The Lancet, admits HALF of all science literature is false. He said, “science has taken a dark turn… pursuing FASHIONABLE TRENDS…”

          • Red Mann

            In his opinion, others, equally qualified, differ. The details of sexual development in embryos is still fuzzy area, but the differentiation the occurs in development is extremely complex, to go from a single cell to a complex organism like a human requires trillions of interactions between genes and cells. Epigenetics comes into play here as well. That various species present homosexual behaviors is an absolute given, that humans appear to have their basic sexuality essentially formed at birth seems to be the case. The notion that someone chooses their sexual behavior is nonsense. Why would someone choose to be vilified, ostracized and condemned? The idea is ludicrous, but homosexual must choose to justify their treatment by religious people.
            You are using the argument from authority fallacy here BTW.

          • Cathy Pool

            Yes, liberals call us the uneducated low information voters; all the while they play the simple minded approach of playing the race, class, and gender cards.

            They get the truly uneducated all worked up, which doesn’t take much.

            Ever see the ‘educated’ liberals at a Trump rally? There’s 100 of black and brown ‘educated’ liberal voters banging their fists in the air (and into Trump supporters faces) with gaping mouths, snarling teeth, screaming like idiots with their hideous signs. Yup, a lot of talent going on in those folks!

          • Red Mann

            You are low info, you simply believe, without question, what you are told by those you consider authorities both religious and political. You obviously only follow right wing media because you believe their lame brain lies. Pathetic really. The right wing of this country lives in a bubble of fantasies with their own misguided idea of reality.

          • Cathy Pool

            Liberals all scream about diversity all the while they fight against it. No such thing as race. No such thing as gender. Everything is just a social construct ; as if all of humanity is nothing except an abstraction.

          • Red Mann

            What are you babbling about? There is no such thing as race, that was a misguided European construct, that has been debunked for years, guess it hasn’t trickled down to you yet.
            No one said anything about there being no such thing as gender, it’s just that gender is not binary, but a continuum.
            Humanity is an abstraction? What could that possible mean, but everything humans do is a social construct, what else could it be?

          • Cathy Pool

            I knew I was a girl before I ever heard the word biology!

          • Red Mann

            Which proves absolutely nothing.

        • Cathy Pool

          I knew I was a girl as did my sister. And shocker of shocks; my brother knew he was a boy. I guess our family is smarter than the average bears for we knew what we were. The little girls went into the bathroom that had the figure with a little skirt on it. All our male members went into the bathroom that the figure wore pants. I came from a large family and yet we knew what the skirts and pants meant; and we knew who we were.

          I guess being transgender gives you that 15 minutes of fame and love that their parents could not or would not provide for them.

          Then there’s those sick parents who bask in the attention of having a child who is just so different. Adore me, look at me, pay attention to me. Parents pushing their own self centered narcissism onto their children.

          But hey, what do I know; I’m just a low information voter who has hate seething out of her pores and bigotry growing out of her head instead of hair.

          Wait!! It IS called hair, isn’t it? Oh dear me, I’m just so confused!

          • Red Mann

            You are judging an entire population based on your single experiences, you think that because you “knew” you were a girl and your brother “knew” he was a boy then transgender children are impossible, you also arrogantly decide that being smart has something to do with it. You are a silly, foolish person combining the qualities of ignorance and arrogance.
            You believe the right wing political and religious lies and are too lazy to actually do some research and learn the truth of the matter. You believe, without evidence, just because you were told, that parents are responsible seeking some kind of fame or some such nonsense, calling them sick. You are demonstrating you are low info, spouting foolish things you know nothing about, but are convinced that you actually do.
            You are seething with bigotry, judging people you don’t know about things you don’t understand with complete assurance of your delusional superiority.
            Before you start spouting BS, go learn something first.

    • parquet

      Methuselah

      • Red Mann

        Infant.

    • IvanRider

      This child was allowed to come to form by a God who could just as easily have – through the natural forces of probability sperm face on their journey to the egg – prevented from ever happening at all. That night in the sack of his parents could just as easily have led to nothing at all.

      So how DARE we act like “consent” on the part of a child – left in the dark about the ETERNAL end of his decision – somehow overrules what the One Who let the child happen in the first place has ALREADY STATED???

      Execution of that child was never that child’s decision to make, nor ours. Never was. Never could have been. Period. And your inference of the Crusades has long been discredited. But if I gave you the whole history here, you probably wouldn’t care.

      The problem with pagan death cults, is they themselves never truly die.

      • Red Mann

        The child didn’t come from any god. You can believe in your god all you want but your belief doesn’t carry any weight with anyone else.
        My inference of the Crusades? I’m talking about the burning and hanging of innocent women “convicted” by fanatics of being witches, I’m talking about the burning and hanging of so called heretics. I’m talking about the unspeakable tortures carried out under the auspices of the church. This didn’t stop until the Enlightenment took the power of life and death away from the church. I don’t guess you know about the religious murder of Quakers by the authorities of the Massachusetts Bay Colony for having the wrong religion.
        Of course the Crusades were responsible for untold deaths of innocents and it has not been debunked. Jews and the wrong kind of Christians were slaughtered by marauding Crusaders driven by religious frenzy. Ever hear of the Huguenots? Slaughtered for their religion?
        What “Pagan death cults” are you talking about, the only death cults in the West are the Abrahamic based death cults. Just look at the slaughter your god called for in the Old Testament.
        Look to the beam in your own eye before pointing out the speck in an others.

  • localhistorywriter

    Let’s be honest, the secular left is a death cult – AIDS, abortion, and now euthanasia, and not just of the elderly but even children. This is precisely where the Nazis were – decreeing that some people are Lebensunwertes Leben – “life not worthy of life.” Once you give yourself license to kill, you do killing on an industrial scale.

    • Red Mann

      AIDS, really AIDS? How did you determine that the left had anything to with AIDS? Oh wait, the left is against persecution of gays for simply being gay so when a new disease appeared that effected gays it was the left’s fault. Of course the right’s hero Reagan made jokes about people dying from AIDS and didn’t left a finger to do something about the disease, there’s some Christian love right there.
      Despite the right’s desperate efforts to make abortions equivalent to murder, it just ain’t so. BTW the Evangelicals were drawn into the anti-abortion camp for political reason by the Republicans, using lies and fear, of course.
      As far as euthanasia, it is not “killing” people as you vainly try to twist it, but a humane way of allowing people to escape the pain and suffering of incurable disease.
      Of course Xavier pointed out earlier on this very thread that:
      “Suffering has a great value only in Christian faith. We believe in a God who suffered and died on cross. We unite our suffering with that of Christ’s. There is no greater antidote for this world, than Christ crucified, the God who willingly took suffering upon himself.”
      No more needs to be said about religion’s outlook on humanity.

      • IvanRider

        They crush and silence all talk of behavioral rehabilitation that would prevent individuals afflicted with the scourge of same-sex attraction from engaging in the very risky behaviors that AIDS needs to flourish.

        Instead, they blame “persecution” of those caught up in pervertsexuality for spreading the disease, as if hurtful words were transferring the virus rather than bodily fluids. A simple text of the air says that not one sing Westboro flashes transfers HIV through the air. But those who thumb their nose at repentance by sodomizing each other in public transfer various bodily fluids which DO spread the virus.

        Yes, hate does spread HIV – the hate that gays have for TRUTH, and the ACTIONS they take to cement their hateful defiance of truth!

        • Red Mann

          You are basically a sick person. AIDS is an unfortunate disease that initially infected homosexual males, but now is spreading amongst heterosexuals in Africa. In any event it it not a perversion, it is just sex that your book condemned, but you book is just stories that you happen to believe. Gays don’t hate the actual truth, what you are spouting is not the truth.

          • IvanRider

            The only reason it has spread outside of its designated corner, is because bisexuals have done their share to help the virus cross over.

          • Red Mann

            You are simply ignorant.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            You are basically a sick person. AIDS is an unfortunate disease that initially infected homosexual males, but now is spreading amongst heterosexuals in Africa. What you are spouting is not the truth.

            “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. (John 8:44)

            And you are dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you walk according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them you live in the lusts of your flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and are by nature children of wrath. (Eph. 2:1-4)

          • Red Mann

            Royce, you can insult me all you want, it seems to be the Christian way, but what I said about AIDS is the truth, the truth in he real world, not in your fantasy world. You can deny reality all you want, but reality won’t change to suit you.
            Oh, stop quoting your magic book to me, it is meaningless.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            No insult there at all. Simply repeated what you said. There’s that Giant Sequoia Tree again. As for the “Christian way” comment, that’s just a bunch of PC Liberal malarkey and more folks are beginning to see that everyday. Anytime somebody disagrees with another or puts down their lie with the truth the response is a bunch of whining rhetoric about how disrespectful, or insulting, or hurtful, or blah blah blah. I quoted you and I quoted Scripture. You find that “insulting”, well, tough.

            As for “Truth”, you wouldn’t know it if He was standing before you.

            “You can deny reality all you want, but reality won’t change to suit you.” There’s that Sequoia Tree again.

            “If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.” (Jn 1:8)

          • Red Mann

            You are so confused, you don’t even understand what you’re saying.
            “a bunch of PC Liberal malarkey” a totally meaningless statement being bandied about by the racist, fraudulent, lying, adulterer that the Republicans have nominated for President, the immoral creep that you Christians are mooning over because you think he will implement your hateful, inhuman agenda. By “politically correct” he means telling the truth about his behavior.
            Your “Truth” is based on the imaginings of your mind, mine on reality, evidence, rationality, you know the “work of the Devil”.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            “You are so confused, you don’t even understand what you’re saying.” Is that the best ya got? Really? No need to answer. We can all see it is. And once again it is visual EVIDENCE that what I’ve been saying is true. The spiritually-dead always resort to such arrogance and hypocrisy. Speaking the very things that point to themselves and they don’t even see it!! Just as Jesus said!! More evidence the Bible is true. THANK YOU!!

            Oh, and btw, once again your faux omniscience fails you,. Neither I, nor many other Christians I know, are “mooning over” Trump. Thanks again for showing your ignorance and hypocrisy.

            And yes, I do know your truths are based on the work of the Devil. Thank you for admitting it.

          • Red Mann

            That is not evidence. Funny, Evangelicals all over the country have firmly jumped on Trump’s bandwagon, loudly proclaiming he is “God’s choice”. Seem like they aren’t using the same playbook your are, I thought you had the inerrant truth on your side.
            Hot flash, there is no devil, that is superstitious nonsense, and you don’t get satire.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Oh, it’s EVIDENCE alright. For sure and certain. You can deny the sky is blue and call it checked black & white for all I care. It doesn’t change the truth from what it is. Once again, Denial & Delusion are powerful forces.

            And there ya go again… exercising your faux omniscience. You have NO idea whether they are really Evangelical nor just how “firmly” they’ve jumped on the Trump bandwagon. You really need to get out more. Poke your head outta your self-induced delusion and see what else is out there. You’ll be surprised. I assure you. There’s a whole lot of us true Christians out there. Just not as many as the Posers.

            NEWS FLASH: There IS a Devil. Satan is very real. Numerous folks can attest to that including myself. And, while you still stubbornly refuse to admit it, you’re living proof of His existence. Your just like the little Energizer Bunny. You just keep going and going and going in doing your father’s, Satan, business. Just like God has said.

            “And you are dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you walk according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them you live in the lusts of your flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and are by nature children of wrath” (Eph. 2:1-4)

  • Kuni Leml

    Claiming that a fetus, even in the third trimester, is a person is not being “pro-life.” It is engaging in Voodoo & Witchcraft by trying to create life where there is none.

    It is usurping God and his very clear instructions on when human life begins:

    • Genesis 2:7 – … and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
    • Job 33:4 – The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
    • Ezekiel 37:5 – … I will make breath[a] enter you, and you will come to life.

    • IvanRider

      You are dead and damned wrong. Let me explain:

      1. Genesis 2 is describing how ADAM was made! NOT how the biology of humanity works.
      2. Job 33:4 is describing God sustaining the universe, NOT how the biology of humanity works!
      3. Ezekiel 37:5 is referring to a SPECIFIC ACT of resurrecting a DEAD ANIMAL! It does NOT mention how the biology of humanity works!
      4. John the Baptist leapt for joy before he was born. If he were not a “living person,” then this would have been IMPOSSIBLE!
      5. Jeremiah 1:5 openly contradicts your claim.

      Nice try, Satan.

      • Red Mann

        Ha, ha, ha, Satan. No such thing, but in your book god kills million, Satan kills a mere 10.
        You are quoting myths as if they actually happened, the Bible has no validity to non-believers and no I will not burn in Hell, doesn’t exist and no I will not meet your god on the so-called judgement day, neither exist.
        You should try reality someday, it’s a lot more pleasant than the dark dreams that infest your mind.

        • Cathy Pool

          God killed the evil people, like you.

          • Red Mann

            Wow, what a display of Christian humility and humanity. It’s a good thing none of those genocides and mass murders ever happened. No flood, no Egyptian plagues or slaughter of the first born, no divine temper tantrums of killing and plagues visited by Jehovah during the non-existent wandering in the desert, no invasion of the “promised Land” with its attendant genocides. All myths, never happened. This evil god of yours was created by a people who wanted to look tough after their miserable subjugation in Babylon. This god which the Bible describes as a juvenile, capricious, jealous, murdering fiend, who loves the smell of burning flesh, so why do you worship the creature?

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            There’s only one evil god in all that gruel you just vomited out and that is YOU.

            Psalms 53:1 “The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God,”
            They are corrupt, and have committed abominable injustice”

            Psalms 58:3 “The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.”

            And btw, should you decide you’d like to stop showing your ignorance and being so foolish, you’ll want to stop referencing Scripture.

            When the spiritually dead try to read the Book of Life it’s like a blind man trying to read a road map before hopping in the car to drive. You have to get a heart transplant before you can have eyes to see.

            “The unbeliever does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1st Cor. 2:14)

          • Red Mann

            You can’t sway a non-believer with your Big Book of Myths, especially one who was once a believer but grew out of it. You are stating what you believe, beliefs that have no evidence, that are irrational, but your arrogance is charming. You believe YOU know the answers and nobody else does, cute.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            I am not trying to sway you one iota. There is NOTHING that I can do to save you. The power of Salvation belongs to the Holy Spirit alone.

            That said, you better hope you never were a Believer for if you were and rejected Christ then you are hopelessly lost.

            “For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, [fn]since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. (Heb. 6:4-6)

            More likely however you were no different than any other Poser. Whereby you may have possessed and intellectually assented to some set of statements but never having actually believed them by surrendering your life to Christ in faith. If that is the case then the Good News is still hope for you.

            “You are stating what you believe, beliefs that have no evidence, that are irrational, but your arrogance is charming. You believe YOU know the answers and nobody else does, cute.”

            That Sir, is what Jesus would call a Giant Sequoia Tree sticking outta your eye socket. But, no doubt, you won’t even see it.

          • Red Mann

            Look, I don’t need “saving” from your savage god or the non-existent “Holy Spirit”, one of the silliest things Christians ever dreamed up.
            I love you Christian spirit:
            “hopelessly lost”, “Poser”, “Giant Sequoia Tree sticking outta your eye socket”.
            Sorry, you are totally irrational, believing impossible things with no evidence whatsoever. Believing something with no evidence means you can believe in anything at all. I’ll stick to reality, to evidence, to the things we actually know about.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            There’s that god-complex and arrogance again. And there’s that hypocrisy again. Thinking you know what a “Christian spirit” is while denouncing its very existence. LOL You really should stop publicly showing your ignorance so much.

            “Sorry, you are totally irrational, believing impossible things with no evidence whatsoever. ” LOL There’s the Sequoia Tree again and proving once again the Bible is true. (Matt. 7:1-5) Thank you for being the epitome and such a wonderful visual example of what it means to be “spiritually-dead” and blind.

          • Red Mann

            “Christian spirit” has nothing to do with spirituality, it is the spirit of you behavior, like “school spirit”.
            But it’s fine for Christians to merrily judge everyone using the “rules” of their religion, right?
            Dead to what, blind to what, your imagined god, your fictional book? I know it’s hard for people like you to understand it, but not everyone believes this nonsense, not everyone is frightened by the violent image of your god any more than they are afraid of the trolls under the bridge.
            You still think everyone should except what you say because you claim your god said it, doesn’t wash.
            Arguing with you is like shoveling sand against the tide, you will stand fast in your delusions, brooking no mention of reality. The reality that has limitless facts and evidence to support it.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Ah, once again, we all get to see the world according to Red Mann. The god of his own universe. The god who gets to decide the way things are and how things get to be defined.

            The god who stands in judgment of Christians and whines and bellyaches about Christians judging. The god who constantly reveals his utter ignorance and hypocrisy by condemning the very things he does and says.

            It’s not only “fine” for Christians to judge it’s required. It’s obedience to God’s command and called loving and following the Lord Jesus Christ. However, it’s not according to any “rules” of “religion”. It’s according to Truth. Truth that comes from the absolute Omniscient, Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Immutable God who is the Creator of all and is perfect in every way. The only thing all-knowing and unchanging about YOUR truth is that YOU get to decide what it is at any given moment in time.

            Yes, Dead. Dead to being spiritually-alive. Dead to being with God. Dead to what is holy, right and true.

            Yes, Blind. Blind to the Truth. Blind to how evil and wicked you are. Blind to just what your total depravity would lead you into if it were not for the Grace & Mercy of Almighty Sovereign God even now saving you from yourself and others from you. Blind to the eternal torment and all that encompasses that awaits you for your stubborn, prideful, disobedient rebellion and mocking of Almighty God. Oh YES, oh SO blind!!

            Oh, I know full well how many fools have no fear of the Lord.

            “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge;
            Fools despise wisdom and instruction.” (Prov. 1:7)

            “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom,
            And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.” (Prov. 9:10)

            Arguing with you is like shoveling sand against the tide, you will stand fast in your delusions, brooking no mention of reality. The reality that has limitless facts and evidence to support it.

            Thank you for once again providing the evidence from your own mouth as to the veracity of God’s Word. I truly appreciate you giving me another opportunity to share the Truth and be Salt and Light to you and the rest of the lost and dying World.

        • Derek Atkins

          Red Mann, I’m sorry to say this, but you are sorely mistaken about the Bible having no validity. There is lots of archaeological evidence that confirms the historicity of many events, places, and people in both the Old and New Testaments. Modern physics is also making more and more discoveries that point to the reality of an Intelligent Designer who created our universe. Finally, on a personal level, the Bible accurately describes human nature, and offers us insight into how to live our lives in ways that will benefit us and the rest of society.

          • Red Mann

            Then show its validity with some external corroboration. There is no evidence, archaeological or otherwise, that the Hebrews were ever in Egypt as slaves, there is no evidence of the plagues including the slaughter of the first born, there is no evidence, despite the hoaxes, that an Egyptian army and the pharaoh were drowned, there is no evidence of a large group of people wandering around the desert for 40 years, there is no evidence of the invasion of the “Promised Land” with the attendant genocide. In the New testament there is no corroborating evidence for the Bethlehem star, no evidence for Herod’s slaughter of the children, no evidence of Jesus’ supposed miracles, no evidence of earthquakes, the tearing of the temple curtain nor the walking dead, no evidence of the resurrection. A single source cannot validate itself, there must by external sources that support it.
            While the Bible myths may have been woven around some historical people and places, that doesn’t make the stories true. Historical fiction authors do this all the time.
            Even a conservative, religious judge has agreed that “Intelligent” design is bogus, it is not science and it may not be taught in schools.
            Finally, many stories, written by many authors over many years without any input from any god “accurately describes human nature, and offers us insight into how to live our lives in ways that will benefit us and the rest of society”.

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          Psalms 58:3 “The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.”

          Pro 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.

          Phil 2:10: at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth

          That day IS coming and you WILL bow. There IS coming a day when your rebellion WILL come to an end and then you WILL spend ALL Eternity in the torment of the Lake Of Fire FOREVER.

          Deny it all you want as long as God gives you the breath to do so. Bt that day WILL end.

          • Red Mann

            Quoting a book that I don’t believe is true is simply foolish. BTW, I have read the Bible, the Quran and the Book of Mormon and find them all to be fiction.
            There will not come a day when I will bow the your imaginary death god. Claim your god exists all you want, but you can’t show it to be true.
            Of course I will die, every living thing does, but no god or gods has anything to do with it.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            No Sir. Not listening and rejecting a book that contains Life is simply foolish. It’s no different than a man who has a curable sickness refusing to take the medications that will save him.

            As for your reading the Bible, God has spoken to that too. When the spiritually dead try to read the Book of Life it’s like a blind man trying to read a road map before hopping in the car to drive. You have to get a heart transplant before you can have eyes to see.

            “The unbeliever does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1st Cor. 2:14)

            That said, IF you will die to yourself by surrendering your life as a slave to Christ and stop being your own god, confess your sins before Christ, pick up your cross and follow Him as your new Lord and Master, and beg Him to save you, He will. Then you will be able to see. (Matt. 16:24)

            “The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God”” (Psa 14:1, 53:1)

            There WILL come a day when you WILL bow before the Lord Jesus for God has said so. You can continue to live in your delusion and rebellion for as long as God gives you breath but you WILL meet your Creator. And, what’s more, you KNOW it. Otherwise you wouldn’t even be on here trying to convince us that you don’t believe it.

          • Red Mann

            Try to understand, your book is basically fiction, there is nothing to back it up, nothing. At best it is a poor historical fiction. Its morals really suck, it has supported murder, slavery, torture, imprisonment, subjugation, discrimination and hatred for centuries. Its “good” parts are ignored by most Christians for whom greed, lying and lack of empathy are the norm. Have a nice life with your delusions.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Try to understand, every single time you come here and with every single post you make you only defeat yourself and your own evil purposes by proving God is real and His Word is true. Not to mention once again showing your utter ignorance. A simple Google check can lead you to scholar and PhD and PhD who speaks to the veracity of Scripture.

            Moreover, for you to place yourself on the throne of God and think for one iota of a second that YOU have the moral fortitude to be able to judge God is just downright laughable!! Why do the spiritually-dead always seem to go there and show their utter ignorance?

            Your faux omniscience also fails you again in thinking that Christians ignore parts of the Bible. Posers maybe but not Christians.

            But hey, I do understand. I understand you are once again proving the Bible to be the very living Word of God.

            “And you are dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you walk according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them you live in the lusts of your flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and are by nature children of wrath” (Eph. 2:1-4)

            You’re only doing what your father, Satan, has you doing. How sad it is that you willfully choose to be a slave to Satan and Sin rather than Jesus Christ.

          • Red Mann

            Somebody saying something that the Bible happened to say or doing something that happens to be in the Bible doesn’t prove the Bible, it just shows human behavior over time.
            I never claimed to be omniscient, I just said I believe in reality, facts and evidence.
            Why do you people think that because we see no reason to believe in your god we must be children and/or slaves of your mythical Satan? Your Satan is no more real that any other of your fantasies.
            BTW, your notion of “sin” is also baseless superstition.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            “Somebody saying something that the Bible happened to say or doing something that happens to be in the Bible doesn’t prove the Bible”

            Oh, that’s some great logic there. Once again you persist on putting your ignorance on display. I really hope to God you are never called for Jury Duty!

            Somebody denying the Truth and rejecting all evidence doesn’t make the Truth any less than it is nor the evidence any less credible.

            And you did claim to be omniscient. More than once. Not my problem you don’t understand what you’re saying but the evidence is there in black & white for all to see how you’ve discredited yourself and made yourself into the fool that God says you are

            In fact, you just demonstrated your faux omniscience again by being completely wrong in your characterization of “us people”! LOL. I and the Christian I know don’t think any such thing. Why do you you even presume to know such a thing? Oh, wait, don’t answer that. I really don’t need to hear anymore of your illogical delusion-induced dribble.

            Thank you for once again proving the veracity of Scripture and evidence once again that what God has said is spot on truth.

            “And you are dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you walk according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them you live in the lusts of your flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and are by nature children of wrath” (Eph. 2:1-4)

          • Red Mann

            OK, I’m done with your inanity, your are simply a dithering idiot spouting meaningless BS from a meaningless book. I see no point in addressing you again, your hopelessness is depressing.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Good. And thanks for showing everyone your best shot as you leave. That’s all you spiritually-dead, morally bankrupt, and empty God-hating trolls have – name-calling. Ad hominems and personal attacks because you have NOTHING else to fall back on.

            It is a shame though that I won’t be able to respond to anymore of your darkness and lies with Truth and Light. Always enjoy shedding the Light of Scripture on the darkness of The Enemy and those who do his bidding.

          • D_OK

            12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

            13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches; comparing Spiritual things with Spiritual.

            14But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are Spiritually discerned.

            15But HE that is Spiritual judges all things, yet HE Himself is judged of no man.

            16For who has known the mind (Spirit) of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind (Holy Spirit) of Christ.

        • Kuni Leml

          Oop’s sorry. I responded to the wrong post.

      • Kuni Leml

        Funny thing there about Jeremiah 1:5; those quoting it conveniently pretend to forget that if it applies to the issue of abortion, then masturbation is also murder.

        As for the examples I gave, the specific circumstance does NOT change the fact that God’s clearly states that life begins at the first breath.

        P.S. It was impossible for ‘John the Baptist to have leapt for joy before he was born’ because a fetus kicking has no relevance to whether it is a person.

        And the actual statement was: When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. (Notice the lack of the fetus feeling joy?)

        • D_OK

          Recommend intense study of scripture ~ right after you confess Romans 10:8-13.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Amen and Amen!! I would just add she needs to do a whole lot more than just “confess” it. She’s gotta BELIEVE it – and that is a whole LOT more than just a profession. Even Satan & his demons “believe”.

            In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me if she doesn’t come back and say she’s a Christian.

          • Kuni Leml

            The number of Christians in America can probably be counted on one hand; I pray daily that I am one of them.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            You would do better to read Matt. 7:21-23. Then pray the prayer of surrender where you surrender your life as a slave to the Lord Jesus Christ and ask him to save you so that you can pick up your cross, follow Him, and live your life according to the Truth in order to bring Him glory.

            Based on your own comments in black & white on this thread you have shown yourself NOT to be a Christian. Bad enough that you reject what God has said about Abortion but that’s not near as bad as calling God a Liar and rejecting an entire book of the Bible.

            You’ve obviously made the great mistake that the vast majority of folks traveling the Wide & Easy Road have made by creating a “jesus” in your own image according to your own ways rather than surrendering to the real Jesus as a creation made in His image for His ways.

            You can NOT be a follower of Jesus Christ while standing in opposition to Him. You can NOT approve, endorse, or support that which Christ calls evil and condemns and be following Him.

            I do pray that you turn loose of your disobedience and open rebellion while you can.

          • Kuni Leml

            Says the person usurping God and the many times that God clearly states when human life begins.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            What is your purpose on here? You say you pray daily that you are one of the few but you continue to openly display your disobedience and rebellion!

            You are a Liar and of your father, Satan, who is the father of all lies. You are only heaping up more and more judgment upon yourself and what for? What are you trying to accomplish? What is it that you are refusing to turn loose of? Did you have an abortion and are trying to assuage your guilty conscience? Know someone else who did and can’t deal with the reality that they killed their baby?

            Whatever it is, I suggest you confess (agree with God) and repent. Surrender your life to Christ as a slave and beg Him to save you while there is yet still time.

          • Kuni Leml

            It appears that you think that my rebelling against Satan’s influence in the world is a bad thing.

            God is very clear, on multiple occasions, when human life begins. None of those vague verses about being knitted in the womb that the demonically influenced spew as they usurp God and the many times he clearly states when human life begins.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            You are of your father, Satan, and you do his work. Yes, God is VERY clear on multiple occasions and I’ve quoted from His Word to show that. There is nothing “vague” about them for those who have eyes to see. But rather only to those who wish to cling to their sin and rebellion.

            So you just keep right on doing your father, Satan’s, work. Keep on telling your lies and practicing lawlessness. Keep right on working iniquity so all can see a living example of Matt. 7:21-23.

            Or you could surrender your life to Christ as a slave and beg Him to save you so that He will be your Lord & Master that you can serve instead of Satan.

            I do appreciate you being a fine example of the wolves, apostates, and Jezebel’s that God has spoken of in His Word too. Not to mention 1st Tim 2:12. Praise God that He has told us this is a sign that the time of Christ is near!!

          • Kuni Leml

            I’ll pray for you.

            What? You were expecting a personal attack. That’s the work of Satan.

            The fact that you are now reduced to desperately spewing ad hominem is all that any actual Christian needs to know about whose side you are on.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Typical response from Satan’s child. Turning the truth into a lie doesn’t work with me though or any true child of God with any discernment. The truth I stated isn’t an ad hominem. What I stated in from the Bible. No surprise you don’t recognize it. Now you may go whine elsewhere just like before.

          • Kuni Leml

            Here is the truth, in plain English, from the mouth of God:

            • Genesis 2:7 – … and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
            • Job 33:4 – The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
            • Ezekiel 37:5 – … I will make breath[a] enter you, and you will come to life.

            What do you have again other than vague verses that can mean anything?

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Yes, those are truths. Unfortunately, just like your father Satan, you are using the truth of God’s Word to tell a lie. No surprise. God has said it would happen. Btw, you’re repeating yourself. You might see somebody about that. You already told those lies WAY UP above.

            I’ve already addressed those above and I already posted several Scriptures to expose your lies. There was nothing “vague” about them.

            I’m not casting anymore pearls to this Jezebel but, in case anyone else may be reading this, I’m not sure if I mentioned this before or not so it’s worthwhile to point out that this daughter of Satan not only twists the actual meaning of the verses she uses to eisegete Scriptures to her POV but she also is too stupid to realize she pulls out three verses that don’t even use the same Hebrew word for “breath” in them!!

            She is the epitome of the modern day internet false prophet who takes to the web to spread her lies. No different than the Matthew Vines, Justin Lee’s, Brandan Robertson’s, the Hatmakers, Jory Michah’s, and all the other overnight, rebellious, self-appointed theologians and prophets. Don’t be a fool and take your theology from this Jezebel.

            This Jezebel advocates for the systematic slaughter and butchering of the most helpless and innocent of human beings that God has created. ‘Nuff said. She stands in direct opposition to the Lord Jesus Christ and she will suffer the consequences. She is the epitome of why Paul wrote, ” I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence” and “Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account.”

          • Kuni Leml

            Except that NONE of the scripture that you posted says anything about when human life begins: Vague poetry that you interpret to support the witchcraft/voodoo you are peddling trying to create human life where there is none versus God’s many clears statement when human life begins.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Had to come back after a month to try and slip in another lie, huh. Sorry but ALL those Scriptures speak of when life begins. Now run along Jezebel and spread your lies elsewhere.

          • Kuni Leml

            Well, life does call on occasion and I can’t spend all my time online.

            So what alleged lie would that be?

            a) God has, on multiple occasions, clearly stated when human life begins.
            b) You are grasping, using vague poetry, to claim the opposite of what God has, on multiple occasions, clearly stated.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Thanks for listing a couple of them. The others are listed above in your comments.

            Buh bye, Jezebel. You’ve been warned.

          • Kuni Leml

            So to recap: According to those practicing witchcraft by trying to create human life where there is none, God was lying when he stated the following:

            • Genesis 2:7 – … and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
            • Job 33:4 – The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
            • Ezekiel 37:5 – … I will make breath[a] enter you, and you will come to life.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            For anyone else who might have come into this thread late and not seen the whole thing:

            So, to recap: Go back thru the whole thread and read it. Kuni is obviously suffering from severe delusion. All those Scriptures were address previously and several others were cited to prove she’s doing exactly what Satan did when he quoted Scripture to Jesus.

            Bottom Line: This Jezebel supports the systematic murder and butchering of the most helpless, innocent humans and not only says that God is perfectly fine with Man tearing apart what He has wonderfully and carefully knit together in the mother’s womb but tries to justify it with God’s Word.

            She’s the epitome of exactly what God describes will come in the Last Days. Not only that but I would not be surprised at all if the Holy Spirit didn’t have her specifically in mind when He had Paul write 1st Tim. 2:11-12.

          • Kuni Leml

            Would that be the same Romans that was written by Saul of Tarsus who is on the record contradicting what Jesus said?

            The same Romans that was written by the same Saul of Tarsus who Peter warned people that “which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction” Romans?

            No thank you, I’ll stick with Jesus and the fact that “works” are also needed not just empty hollow claims that the self-proclaimed, yet fake, christians use as their excuse to live in a state of perpetual sin.

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          I must apologize to you for the above comment I just posted. I made the mistake of thinking I was actually answering an intelligent, sentient, human being capable of reason and not mentally incapacitated.

          It is the absolute height of idiocy for one to equate stopping the beating of a heart with masturbation. Even most cretins and complete morons understand the concept of conception! Not to mention the requirement for said conception to take place in order for LIFE to begin!!

          I hope you get saved while there is still time.

          • Kuni Leml

            Yes, you are sooooooooooo intelligent that the best you could come with was ad hominem.

            God is very clear, on multiple times, about when human life begins, and that is at the first breath.

            As for my masturbation reference, sucks doesn’t it that “I” am not the one trying to pretend that “life” means “human life.” (That would be those who are engaging in witchcraft and voodoo by trying to create human life where there is none.)

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Ad hominem? Of course I would direct the comment to you personally. To try and argue that masturbation does NOT equate to murder with someone who is actually so ignorant as to make the claim in the first place would be futile. I would imagine that anyone who’s gone thru puberty and actually taken any kind of Biology Class knows the difference between sperm and conception!!! Duh!!!

            Yes, God is VERY clear and that’s why His truths destroy your lies. His truths are as clear as your rejection of them.

            The only thing that sucks is your lies and your persistence to try and deceive others with them. Ok, that’s not quite true. It also sucks that you don’t understand that a baby IS a human life and a person. And it sucks that you willfully with intent and forethought choose to reject truth as evidenced by your own comment:

            “And the actual statement was: When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.”(Notice the lack of the fetus feeling joy?)

            There it is in Black & White. You quote God who says “BABY” and you then lie, just as your father Satan, and replace the word “baby” with “fetus”. Booyah! Bam!!

            The other thing that sucks is that you’ll spend Eternity in torment in the Lake of Fire for continuing to do so. But hey, THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for showing that even when the spiritually-dead try to lie and deceive they still wind up revealing the truth!!

            Much appreciated.

          • Kuni Leml

            Oooooooooo, another ad hominem. Well Jesus did warn us Christians that we would be persecuted. But we have found that persecution is the refiner’s fire of character.

            Those claiming to be pro-life are engaging in witchcraft and voodoo by trying to create life out of nothing and are usurping God vis-à-vis God’s many statements as to when life begins, at the first breath.

            • Genesis 2:7 – … and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
            • Job 33:4 – The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
            • Ezekiel 37:5 – … I will make breath[a] enter you, and you will come to life.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            No ad hominem there and you can repeat yourself as many times as you want. It doesn’t turn from a lie into the truth no matter how many times you repeat it. I already addressed your lies, and just like Satan quoting Scripture to Jesus, your pulling Scriptures out as prooftexts, your twisting and taking them outta context will have no success.

            Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

            Go and be your own god somewhere else. Your day is coming and your lies will end.

          • Kuni Leml

            Oh, so now God is lying on those many occasions where he clearly states when human life begins and it does not matter how many times he repeats it.

            Now we know why Jesus said that many are called, but that only few are chosen.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            I don’t know who the “we” is that you are referring to but I imagine you’re not referring to the spiritually-dead and other sons of disobedience/children of wrath such as yourself.

            But I do know this, your own words again reveal your blindness. No, you have NO clue WHY Jesus said that many are called but only a few are chosen. You don’t understand that statement by Jesus anymore than when He said that Life begins.

      • mbabbitt

        IvanRider: I love your reply. Thanks.

    • Marshall P

      Sonograms are “voodoo”?

      • Kuni Leml

        Funny thing there, one could argue that to some people it could be mistaken for witchcraft.

        To quote Arthur C. Clark: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

        But we digress. Trying to create human life where there is none is what voodoo does when it tries to bring back the dead.

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          So now that living and growing baby is dead? LOL You’re a riot!! But hey, keep it up. Your idiocy continues to show yourself and gives us a good laugh!

    • D_OK

      Deplorable distortion of scripture.

      • Kuni Leml

        What exactly is being twisted by me?

        I’m not the one trying to pretend that the references of people coming out of wombs actually makes them human while still actually in the womb.

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          Hey D_OK, checkout her reply! LOL What an outstanding display of spiritual-deadness for all to see! Oh yeah, let’s not pretend that PEOPLE coming outta the womb are HUMAN!! LOL

      • Royce E. Van Blaricome

        Just FYI, in case you didn’t see it, I gave Kuni several Scriptures that clearly show the baby is a person. See her completely imbecilic responses and interpretations of those Scriptures! Honestly, I can’t believe anyone could be so ignorant as to say such things and it’s rather just a sign of an intentional, willful rejection of God and His truths.

    • Royce E. Van Blaricome

      Exo 21:22-23 “When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman’s husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life”
      (Shows the baby is a life and there is no set date that is given so it begins at conception.)

      Psa 139:13 For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother’s womb. (Shows there are no “accidents” when it comes to a baby. What God has formed and created, no man has the right to destroy.)

      Jer 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.” (Again, shows God is the one who creates a baby and intimately forms the baby.)

      Isa 49:1 Listen to me, O coastlands, and give attention, you peoples from afar. The LORD called me from the womb, from the body of my mother he named my name.

      Isa 49:5 And now the LORD says, he who formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob back to him; and that Israel might be gathered to him— for I am honored in the eyes of the LORD, and my God has become my strength—

      Twist not Scripture lest you be like Satan. Genesis 2:7 cannot be used when talking about a baby as Adam was NEVER a baby. God breathed life into Adam after forming him from the dust. Duh!! C’mon, if you’re gonna twist God’s Word and accuse the rest of us of Witchcraft, you certainly are gonna have to do better than THAT!!

      As for your Job & Ezekiel references, again, you really need to exercise a little more simple intelligence – not to mention seriously elementary exegetical skills.

      When the spiritually dead try to read the Book of Life it’s like a blind man trying to read a road map before hopping in the car to drive. You have to get a heart transplant before you can have eyes to see.

      “The unbeliever does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1st Cor. 2:14)

      John MacArthur, in his blog entitled “Why Does Sola Scriptura Matter” said, “Nothing is more offensive to the Author of Scripture than to disregard, deny, or distort the truth He has revealed (Revelation 22:18–19). To mishandle the Word of God is to misrepresent the One who wrote it. To reject its claims is to call Him a liar. To ignore its message is to snub that which the Holy Spirit inspired.”

      Folks would do well to remember that before saying such things as “God says…” or “The Bible says…” When you say such things you step into the shoes of a prophet and basically say, “Thus sayeth the Lord…” They would also do well to remember that Satan quoted Scripture to Jesus as well. Twist not the Scriptures lest you be like Satan.
      That said, IF you will die to yourself by surrendering your life as a slave to Christ and stop being your own god, confess your sins before Christ, pick up your cross and follow Him as your new Lord and Master, and beg Him to save you, He will. Then you will be able to see. (Matt. 16:24)

      You would do well and be much better served if you do NOT underestimate the hatred God has for and the wrath that awaits those who have rejected His free Gift.

      • Kuni Leml

        Exodus – Proves that a fetus is not a person because forcing an unwanted miscarriage only results in a fine.
        Psalms – Being knitted together in the womb does not indicate that it is a person before the first breath is taken.
        Jeremiah – Would make masturbation murder because of the “before you were in the womb” part.
        Isaiah – “From”, not “in” the womb.

        The fact remains that when God states that human life begins, he states that it is after the first breath Mr. Twisting Scriptures.

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          Having a little problem with English or just intentionally trying to ignore what God has said and doing Satan’s bidding? What part of “so that her CHILDREN (NOT “fetus”) come out” or “no harm” and “life for life” do you not understand?? “Forcing an unwanted miscarriage? Like there’s a wanted miscarriage? Huh?!

          The Scripture is crystal clear. If the miscarriage from the two men fighting that does not result in harm – meaning the child survives – results in a fine as dictated by Scripture but if the child dies then it is “LIFE” for LIFE”. Not difficult at all to understand even for the spiritually-dead.

          Psalms – You lie again. David uses the personal pronouns of “me” and “my” 3x. He NEVER once draws any distinction of the “me” and “my” of his inward parts or who he is from the time before birth to after. David identifies as the same PERSON from the time of his being knit together until the time he wrote that!!

          Jeremiah – Now you’re just being obtuse and downright ignorant. “Murder” is the taking of an innocent LIFE. A man’s seed is not a human life until it fertilizes the woman’s egg. THAT is basic Biology 101 and to say such a thing reveals not only your ignorance but more likely a stubborn, willful rejection of Truth.

          Isaiah – Again, you’re just completely ignorant of the English language or intentionally being obtuse, argumentative, or trying to deceive others. At the very least you are showing Eph. 2 to be true.

          “And you are dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you walk according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them you live in the lusts of your flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and are by nature children of wrath” (Eph. 2:1-4)

          Anyone with half a brain can see clearly what “from” means! Thank you for completely discrediting yourself and showing that you’re either delusional or, which is more likely the case, intentionally rejecting God and His Truth to put forth your evil agenda. Always appreciated when the evil-doers show themselves for who they are and we do have to. No need to say anything else. You’ve done well.

          Or you can come back and try to explain how God (and the doctors too!) took a bunch of body parts and formed them into a baby “from” the womb as you just defined! LOL

  • Rachelthemillenial

    Let’s not sugarcoat this:
    “We’re Euthanizing Minors”
    should be
    “We Kill Children.”

  • Robert MacLeod

    Ignoring the ludicrous parts of this “news” article that shows the extreme hatred and homophobia of Christians for a second, so a terminally ill person, Adult or infant, is suffering horribly. They have no chance of recovering or ever even getting better save a “miracle” from the happy sky guy of their choice. They are doomed to spend days, weeks even months suffering under the pretense of helping them. Why is it bad to give them the choice of ending their suffering? Why is it some how being closer to your God to lay and suffer in pain till you finally die, gasping in agony for your very last breath? Its funny, we give animals whom we love the dignity of passing quietly over to whatever waits on the other side, but not children. Please tell me how this is being a good Christian?

    • Derek Atkins

      Robert, your comments about the need to give those who are experiencing horrible suffering the choice of ending their suffering confirms the entire point of this blog. It seems that for you, the greatest evil in our world today is the evil of suffering; it also seems that for you, it follows that the greatest good is to alleviate suffering, even if such relief is accomplished by means of doctor-assisted suicide or euthanasia. The Hippocratic Oath, which was penned before Jesus, has guided Western doctors for the past two millennia. According to the Hippocratic Oath, doctors are enjoined to do their patients no harm. Performing abortions, doctor-assisted suicide, and active euthanasia are all procedures that aim at deliberately killing humans, and therefore bring obvious harm to patients, thereby violating the Hippocratic Oath.

    • Royce E. Van Blaricome

      Why should anyone try for one second to explain anything to you, let alone what being a good Christian is?

      It’s quite apparent that you suffer from a self-appointed God-complex whereby you get decide what everything is. Whether that be suffering, the potential for a future cure, the quality of life that deserves to continue – or not, what is right and what is wrong.

      But thank you for showing that Psalms 58:3 and Proverbs 14:12 are the truth!

      Psalms 58:3 “The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.”

      Pro 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.

      • Red Mann

        I don’t want any explanation from you, just asking you back up your extraordinary claims that your particular god exists with some evidence, but you can’t.
        “It’s quite apparent that you suffer from a self-appointed God-complex whereby you get decide what everything is.”
        Typical nonsense.

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          You’re not going to get any explanation from me either because I don’t make it a habit of casting my pearls before swine (Matt. 7:6). Though, ironically, that is proof in itself.

          It’s also blatantly obvious that you are either not being drawn by God to Christ (John 6:44) or have willfully chosen to reject God.

          “18 For the wrath of God IS REVEALED from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which IS KNOWN about God IS EVIDENT within them; for God MADE IT EVIDENT o them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been CLEARLY SEEN, being understood through what has been made, so that they are WITHOUT EXCUSE 21 For even though they KNEW God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools (Rom. 1:18-22)”

          • Red Mann

            The louder you say it doesn’t make it any more true. You are quoting from a totally unreliable source. It means no more than quoting from Harry Potter, just words from a work of fiction.
            You’re right, I am not drawn to a fictional character, especially one as vile as your god, a god that I didn’t “reject” because it does not exist.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            “The louder you say it doesn’t make it any more true.” Ditto!!

            “You are quoting from a totally unreliable source.” A wise man once said it is better to keep your mouth shut and not show your ignorance than open it and remove all doubt. In this day and age of the internet and everything else, there really is NO excuse for such ignorance. The evidence for the Bible is overwhelming. And btw, folks a whole lot more educated and intelligent than you have done their best to disprove the Bible. Many of them having come to Salvation in doing so because they surrendered to the evidence of the Truth.

            As for the latter part of your statement, I just thank you once again for showing your god-complex and arrogance.

          • Red Mann

            The evidence for the Bible is NOT overwhelming, there is almost zero and what little there is does not prove any god. You need to stop taking all your information from apologists. The real scholars have shown that virtually none of the Genesis and Exodus stories are true. Have fun with your delusions.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Why do you persist with such a public display of ignorance? Especially after I’ve pointed it out to you? Are you SO blind as to not even be aware of the internet? Do you not think that any clear thinking, rational, open-minded man who truly wants to know the Truth can go to the internet and not do any number of searches to find it?

            All you’re doing is reinforcing the truths of Scripture so thank you once again.

            Well, almost all, you’ve also shown to have completely discredited yourself and anything you say because any Unbeliever who is at least intellectually honest must admit there is NO more evidence to disprove the Bible and the “stories” in Genesis and Exodus than there is to prove it true.

            There is ample evidence to show in all probability they are true. Much more than any evidence to show even a possibility they are not. But in the end BOTH must be taken on faith.

            All you’ve shown is your stubborn, close-minded rejection of even rational though and made it abundantly clear that you have a hatred for God which lends to a bias that makes your rebellion blatantly obvious.

            Thank you. It’s always appreciated when the God-haters reveal themselves and do our work for us by discrediting themselves.

          • Red Mann

            You can find anything you want on the internet including scads of things that claim to support your view, but none of them have facts or evidence behind them, just people saying what they believe. You are making the positive claim that there is a god and that the Bible is actually true. You must provide the evidence to show that it is.
            Atheist don’t “hate god”, nor are we “rebellious against god”, we see no reason to believe such a ludicrous notion. All your bloviating based on the assumption that your god and Bible are true is meaningless as if you were claiming Voldemort, and the Harry Potter books are real and true.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            “You can find anything you want on the internet including scads of things that claim to support your view, but none of them have facts or evidence behind them, just people saying what they believe.”

            EXACTLY!! That’s all you have!! NO facts!! Just you spewing the nonsense you believe. Which leads me right back to my original comment to you:

            Why should anyone try for one second to explain anything to you, let alone what being a good Christian is?

            It’s quite apparent that you suffer from a self-appointed God-complex whereby you get decide what everything is. Whether that be suffering, the potential for a future cure, the quality of life that deserves to continue – or not, what is right and what is wrong.

            But thank you for showing that Psalms 58:3 and Proverbs 14:12 are the truth!

            Psalms 58:3 “The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.”

            Pro 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.

            Thanks for continuing to prove the God’s Word is true and providing the evidence to support what God has said. MUCH appreciated!!

  • Shazbot

    The Left is so inconsistent.

    They constantly tell us that we must do everything we can to reduce the suicides of gays and trannies or (I’ve seen this so many times) their blood will be on our hands.

    BUT, anyone else wanting to commit suicide? “Fine, I’ll be happy to help you with that!”

    They say they want “equality,” but apparently it’s OK for a non-gay non-trannie to take their own life any old time. So, I guess their lives are more valuable than the rest of us.

    Crazy people.

  • mbabbitt

    “What difference at this point does it make?” if we have a society dedicated to death? A lot!

  • davidrev17

    Hmmm….

    From the highly confused (though brilliant) atheist, Friedrich Nitzsche, espousing his equally incoherent [hyperanthropic] notion of man himself – aka “Ubermensch,” or Superman/Overman, of his “Thus Spoke Zarathustra” fame – to Josef Stalin’s “new man”…or even Hitler’s “new race; this is just
    another mind-numbing example of 21st-century fallen mankind’s brazenly emancipated, morally denuded (or “Babel-like”) autonomous behavior, ever since H$*# sapiens’ had foolishly & formally declared the “death of God” around the turn of the 20th-century – having since UNtethered himself from the ONLY source of objective truth and morality upon which the West had been constructed for millenia…aka the worldview of the personal, transcendent, eternally self-existent, thus UNcreated Creator God revealed in the Judeo-Christian Scriptures.

    * * *

    “The Jewish sages have long reminded us that the two key words in the story of Babel, bricks and confuse, are a precise inversion of each other in Hebrew. In the hubris of their attempt to “make a name for themselves” and erase the very boundaries between “heaven” and “earth,” the builders of Babel became the everlasting symbol of confusion and showed that their civilization was all too human in its turn. Just so do human intentions always carry the seeds of unintended consequences. Just so do utopian dreams always become nightmares, whether those dreams are ancient Babylonian, recent Marxist or Western secularist in the future.”

    — Os Guinness, “Impossible People: Christian Courage and the Struggle for the Soul of Civilization,” (July, 2016), Chapter One.

    * * *

    “What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done,
    and there is nothing new under the sun. Is there a thing of which it is said, “See, this is new”? It has been already, in the ages before us.” (Ecclesiastes 1:9-10/ESV)

    “Why are the nations in an uproar And the peoples devising a vain thing? The kings of the earth take their stand, and the rulers take counsel together against the Lord, and against His Anointed, saying, “Let us tear their fetters apart, and cast away their cords from us!” He who sits in the heavens laughs, The Lord scoffs at them. Then He will speak to them in His anger, and terrify them in His fury, saying, “But as for Me, I have installed My King upon Zion, My holy mountain.” “I will surely tell of the decree of the Lord: He said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You. ‘Ask of Me, and I will surely give the nations as Your inheritance, And the very ends of the earth as Your possession. “You shall break them with a rod of iron, You shall shatter them like earthenware.’” Now therefore, O kings, show discernment; Take warning, O judges of the earth. Worship the Lord with reverence, and rejoice with trembling. Do homage to the Son, that He not become angry, and you perish in the way, For His wrath may [n]soon be kindled. How blessed are all who take refuge in Him!” (Psalm 2/NASB)

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