The Entire ‘LGBT’ Narrative Just Crumbled

It's time to stop condoning destructive behavior, and start speaking truth in unconditional love.

By Matt Barber Published on August 29, 2016

If your daughter, sister, mother or friend “identified” as a fat person trapped in a perilously emaciated body — if she truly believed she was obese, but, in reality, suffered from anorexia — would you affirm her “fatness” and get her liposuction, or would you go to the ends of the earth to help her bring her subjective (and mistaken) identity into alignment with objective reality? When someone is engaged in demonstrably self-destructive behavior, it is not loving, but hateful, to encourage persistence.

It was, ironically, lesbian activist and writer Dorothy Allison who once wrote, “Things come apart so easily when they have been held together with lies.” In validation of this truism, a series of new peer-reviewed studies have just been released that serve to utterly debunk and deconstruct key “progressive” homosexual-activist talking points.

‘Sexuality and Gender: Findings from the Biological, Psychological, and Social Sciences’

This study, conducted by world renowned Johns Hopkins University scientists Dr. Lawrence S. Mayer and Dr. Paul R. McHugh, is a meta-analysis of data from over 200 peer-reviewed (and left-leaning) studies regarding “sexual orientation” and “gender identity.” It was published in the fall 2016 edition of The New Atlantis journal and is, far and away, the most objective, exhaustive and comprehensive study on the topic to date.

The research established, among other things:

  • “The understanding of sexual orientation as an innate, biologically fixed property of human beings — the idea that people are ‘born that way’ — is not supported by scientific evidence.”
  • “Sexual orientation” in adolescents is “fluid over the life course for some people, with one study estimating that as many as 80 percent of male adolescents who report same-sex attractions no longer do so as adults.”
  • “Compared to heterosexuals, non-heterosexuals are about two to three times as likely to have experienced childhood sexual abuse.”
  • “Gay”-identified people are “at an elevated risk for a variety of adverse health and mental health outcomes.”
  • “Gay”-identified people experience “nearly 2.5 times the risk of suicide.”
  • “The hypothesis that gender identity is an innate, fixed property of human beings that is independent of biological sex — that a person might be ‘a man trapped in a woman’s body’ or ‘a woman trapped in a man’s body’ — is not supported by scientific evidence.”
  • “Studies comparing the brain structures of transgender and non-transgender individuals … do not provide any evidence for a neurobiological basis for cross-gender identification.”
  • “[S]ex-reassigned individuals [are] about five times more likely to attempt suicide and about 19 times more likely to die by suicide.”
  • “[T]he rate of lifetime suicide attempts across all ages of transgender individuals is estimated at 41 percent, compared to under 5 percent in the overall U.S. population.”
  • “Only a minority of children who experience cross-gender identification will continue to do so into adolescence or adulthood.”

Lest you buy the left wing talking point that so-called “homophobia” leads to high rates of suicide and other devastating consequences of the “LGBT” lifestyle, a recent study from “gay”-affirming Sweden dispels this myth. The research, published in the May issue of the European Journal of Epidemiology, found that people entering into a “gay marriage” were, as mirrored above, nearly three times as likely to commit suicide than their heterosexual counterparts.

“Even in a country with a comparatively tolerant climate regarding homosexuality such as Sweden,” observed the researchers, “same-sex married individuals evidence a higher risk for suicide than other married individuals.”

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)

Meanwhile, the CDC, no bastion of conservatism, just released this month a report establishing and detailing the devastating effects of “LGBT” identity and behaviors on teens “grades 9-12.”

Writing at WND, child advocate Linda Harvey expressed frustration that, despite its solid conclusions, the CDC yet insists upon using such propagandist terms as “sexual minorities” to describe same-sex-attracted teens. She notes that “these adolescents no more qualify as ‘minorities’ than kids who eat junk food,” and cuts through the smokescreen to summarize the report’s findings:

“Self-labeled homosexual and bisexual teens were twice as likely as heterosexual teens to have been victims of sexual or physical dating violence, to be regular cigarette smokers, to have tried marijuana before age 13, to ever have used cocaine, hallucinogenic drugs, ecstasy, taken prescription drugs without a doctor’s prescription, or to have felt sad or hopeless.

“They were more likely to be current marijuana users than heterosexual students, more likely to drink alcohol, and over four times as likely to have used methamphetamines or heroin.

“They were four times as likely to actually attempt suicide.

“Homosexual and bisexual students were about 25 percent more likely to have had sexual intercourse, and more likely to be currently sexually active and to have had four or more partners.

“They are more than twice as likely to have had sexual intercourse before age 13.” Can we just have a heart and ask: with whom? Were these adult ‘partners’ (aka molesters)?

It’s notable here that, in past studies, researchers with the CDC have indeed discovered that “gay” men are “at least three times more likely to report CSA (childhood sexual abuse),” while the left-leaning Archives of Sexual Behavior similarly determined in a 2001 study that nearly half of all “gay”-identified men were, as children, molested by a homosexual predator: “46 percent of homosexual men and 22 percent of homosexual women reported having been molested by a person of the same gender. This contrasts to only 7 percent of heterosexual men and 1 percent of heterosexual women reporting having been molested by a person of the same gender.”

Considering the above non-biased, replicated scientific facts, it’s little wonder that an earlier study in the International Journal of Epidemiology (IJE) determined the “life expectancy at age 20 years for gay and bisexual men is 8 to 20 years less than for all men.”

You think me callous. You think I hate. I’m not and I do not. Truth is hate to those who hate truth. I love self-identified “LGBT” individuals with a love beyond my own power to summon. I love them because Christ first loved me. I love them because, like them, I am a sinner in need of a Savior. They are under deception. The enemy of man is the father of lies, and he prowls like a lion seeking to both deceive and devour us all.

I know what it’s like to have someone close to me struggle with same-sex attraction and adopt an aberrant sexual identity. I have a dear family member wasting away with AIDS at this very moment. While I love him, I also understand that if I were to affirm his lifestyle and offer well-intentioned yet dangerously misguided “compassion,” I would be hurting him, not helping him.

I offer true compassion. I offer truth, in love.

If you truly love someone, you should never, ever encourage that person in a demonstrably destructive and subjective “gay,” “lesbian,” “bisexual” or “transgender” identity. Love them unconditionally, but encourage them to find freedom from it.

Because, whether spiritual, physical, or both, it may be the difference between life and death.

 

Matt Barber is founder and editor-in chief of BarbWire.com. He is author of Hating Jesus: The American Left’s War on Christianity, a columnist, a cultural analyst and an attorney concentrating in constitutional law. Having retired as an undefeated heavyweight professional boxer, Matt has taken his fight from the ring to the culture war. (Follow Matt on Twitter: @jmattbarber).

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  • Gary

    It is natural and normal to be sexually attracted to the opposite sex. Therefore, it is unnatural and abnormal to be sexually attracted to the same sex. Being sexually attracted to your own sex is rightfully called “perversion”. Homosexuality is not a mental illness, although mental illness sometimes goes with it. Homosexuality is immorality. It is defying God’s laws about sexual behavior. It is a sin.

    • Kath

      Please site a vlalid source of this info, no blogs, conservative web sites in fact no media I wish to see valid info from the APA.

    • Michael Davis

      If A, therefore Not B. That’s not how it goes. You arent very good at this logic thing, are you. Guess they dont hold with none-a that there book-larnin in the holler you came from.

    • Kim Hudlet

      That makes no sense what so ever. Did you finish high school, or are just thinking no one reading this did?

  • NDC

    “Love them unconditionally, but encourage them to find freedom from it.”

    One of the first and most difficult things I had to deal with becoming a born again believer was the fact that some of my friends would no longer accept me. Long story short, some will just have to be cut loose or there wicked ways may just pull you down.

    I’m not going to argue with gay family or friends, neither am I going to “encourage them”. They also do not like the change Christ has made to my life and world view. They know my position, they know my Biblical point of view, they don’t accept it and choose to be under delousion.

    If the SHTF and they banged on the door needing food & water would I give it to them? Of course! Would I allow them to stay in our home? Sure! Would I allow them to disrupt the reading, worshiping, and following of Christ?? Absolutely not!

    I believe we will live through some tribulation, some will be saved before the Wrath of GOD is poured out on this world and they will need someone to guide them to Christ. I also believe if our light is shining these people will find us in the darkness to come.

    • Cowboy

      Very well said – love them – but do not let them disrupt your relationship and worship with God.

      • Kim Hudlet

        May I ask what any LGBT person being married or having a family or the same rights and privileges as you has ever done to disrupt your relationship or worship in any way?

        • Cowboy

          LGBT individuals that get married, have a family, live without attacking me – do not disrupt my relationship with God or my worship. But when I am called a hater and bigot because I believe the Word of God and that their life style is sinful – that does disrupt. I am asked to tolerate a life style that I believe is sinful, but tolerance is not enough for so many – they want a stamp of approval – which I can never give.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Cowboy, “Very well said – love them – but do not let them disrupt your relationship and worship with God.” That certainly sounds like you are claiming they are disrupting. You are not called a hater and a bigot because you misinterpret the word of God to say that the “lifestyle” whatever that is, is sinful. You are called a hater and a bigot because you repeat and perpetuate lies about an entire group of people, vote for government officials to take away basic human rights and dignity. You and CL vastly over estimate the importance of your opinion, much less your approval, to me or LGBTQI Christians or LGBTQI people in general. You approval is neither needed nor desired. No one cares what you think. We do care when you and your ilk continue to misuse science and scripture to uphold slavery, segregation, gender oppression (you do know women can vote now?), and withhold human rights and freedom equal to those you enjoy.

          • Cowboy

            The lifestyle is sinful.

    • Kath

      I do not believe in your God so I will excuse myself.

      • NDC

        We each must pedal our own bike.

    • CL

      ‘shaking the dust off of your feet’ until they are ready. 🙂 It does no good to ‘throw pearls before swine’. We must wait as the Father waits, for the prodigal to realize that home is the best place to be. 🙂

      • Kim Hudlet

        So much arrogance…one of the things God truly hates….Funny there’s nothing on that list about sexual orientation. We at my open and affirming church will pray for your heart to be softened and your eyes to be opened to your arrogance and willfulness.

        • CL

          Greetings Kim, There is no arrogance here. I merely state what Yshwe(known as Jesus) Himself stated. (Matthew 10:14)
          As with the prodigal’s father… the arms are open and waiting when the prodigal’s eyes become opened and they are ready to receive the Truth.
          Leviticus 20:13, 18:22
          Romans 1:24-25, 26-28

          • Kim Hudlet

            Ahh, you still don’t want to understand what you are reading. Paul condemned heterosexuals who engaged unnatural (against their nature) sexual acts with other men. Other than the Sharia version of Christians, Biblical scholars have recognized this for a very long time. Since you are clearly not a Biblical scholar, a physician, Mental Health professional, or or scientist of any kind, perhaps you would like to share what sort of trauma you have experienced that has created such a strong dislike for LGBTQI people that you are willing to misrepresent scripture in order to dismiss and denigrate them?

          • CL

            I’m sorry Kim, but this is laughable.
            I don’t even know how to address it. Did you really think through what you were writing?

            22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
            (it hardly matters whether one considers oneself homosexual or heterosexual… to lie with mankind as with womankind ‘is’ abomination… it is clearly saying that male is made for female and none other way)

            Let us go on….
            24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled

            27 (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled;)

            commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and … defile not yourselves therein

            I don’t have any ‘strong dislike for homosexual people’, and I certainly don’t ‘denigrate them’….
            on the contrary, I believe in raising them to the higher plane of existence… an existence that acknowledges the Creator and His design.

            I merely know that it is inappropriate to act on unnatural desires, that to encourage such actions are detrimental to a healthy society for raising children, and unhelpful to the souls that are suffering in this manner. I believe in purging the wound that it may heal…. not in covering the wound with a bandage that merely veils the festering wound. I do not believe in deception, especially self-deception.
            Peace and blessings to you.

          • Kim Hudlet

            I absolutely thought it through, as have hundreds of Bible scholars. I spent a fair amount of time researching it in graduate school as my graduate program was an integration of Psychology and theology. You scoff at science as well, so no surprise you find it laughable.
            Back to that higher plane, and raising people up that you claim you don’t see as less than or lower than you. Do yo listen to what you say?

          • CL

            Hi Kim, I’m trying to raise myself up to that higher plane too. I think it’s what we all need to be striving for, in different ways. All of us has something that we need to overcome. I want to take as many people as possible along that journey with me. 🙂
            No one is ‘lesser’. We all have struggles in this life.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Good for you. Putting God’s children down as “Aberrant, abnormal, and unnatural” is probably not going to help get you there.

          • CL

            It is not I that defines, it is He who designs. 🙂

          • Kim Hudlet

            It’s so sad when one old man believe that he has an exclusive on “what God really meant.” Gods mouth to your very special ear, CL?”

          • Kim Hudlet

            BTW, not sure who you were quoting, but I never said you had a strong dislike for homosexual people. Re: your aside about my private profile vs. your blank avatar and use of initials for a screen name: I am here with my full name, and a picture of my face. Signed in with facebook. Easily googled, easily verified. Education, license, etc. You? Nothing.

          • CL

            “perhaps you would like to share what sort of trauma you have experienced
            that has created such a strong dislike for LGBTQI people”

            and who was ‘projecting’? 😉

    • Rebecca Monti

      You became a born again christian and a bunch of your friends left you. They didn’t leave you because of your religion, they left you because of your wrongful actions.

    • Kim Hudlet

      The problem with your entire statement is that LGBTQI people are not immoral or mentally ill by virtue of being LGBTQI. That you do not identify as LGBTQI is undoubtedly a relief to all of those who do, however, you may think and opine whatever you want, but you will be called out for perpetuating your willful ignorance of facts and science and false doctrine. I promise that the millions of Christians who follow Christ’s example and speak up for those who have no voice, just as we have spoken out against Christians using your same words and scriptural misuse to maintain slavery, segregation, and sexism (you do know women can vote, right?)

  • CL

    Anyone with a clear mind knows it is wrong to encourage unnatural behavior, and anyone with a clear mind knows that this behavior is unnatural. Yes, freedom is found in truth, not the lies that itching ears think they want to hear… and not in ‘the way that seems right to a man (i.e., humans)’ but is fraught with error (and deception).

    • Kath

      Please share the source of your info, a non conservative web site,no blogs I would like to see something valid like a piece by the APA or AMA.
      The only unnatural I see is you poking your nose in someone elses business and judging them.

    • Kim Hudlet

      Do you really want to get into all the things the Bible declares unnatural? How about we talk about some of the things God orders in scripture that we would absolutely consider immoral? The priest causing women to abort their unborn children if the husband suspects she was unfaithful, ripping the babies from the wombs of the women of villages they conquer and dashing the infants against the rocks.
      And you are mistaken about this being natural also. It occurs regularly in the animal kingdom.

      • CL

        Greetings Kim, Just because it occurs in the animal kingdom does not make it natural does it? and we are not animals are we?
        even if there is unnatural attraction in the animal kingdom, animals do not find a way to act on those unnatural attractions do they? other than dry humping the wrong sex
        The aberration remains an aberration.

        • Kim Hudlet

          Ummmmm…..you really don’t understand the word unnatural do you? Yes, by definition, it does make it natural. And yes we are animals, as opposed to plants or minerals. Genetically, we are not much different than a number of our animal cousins. In fact, you obviously don’t understand the words translated as unnatural in scripture and the meaning and context there either. I do appreciate your comments though. It provides great opportunity to provide actual education to those who are looking for factual information. As I mentioned elsewhere in a post, green eyes are also an aberration. Should we go back to the Middle ages and start criminalizing and categorizing the 2% of the population that has green eyes as evil and witches? Same mentality and logic.

    • Kim Hudlet

      By “clear mind” I’m realizing you mean unfettered by education or ability to reason. Every scripture you quote here applies to the very next thing out of your mouth! You are presenting arguments that have no basis in fact or science, are contrary to scripture, and lack any logical coherence. CL open you cling to lies and claim them to be truth because it’s what you want to hear……you are the only one with “itching ears.” 2 Timothy 4:3 applies to everything you have posted and this entire article we are discussing…he is one of the “teachers” telling you what you want to hear. Open your eyes and let him who has ears to hear….. The great thing about this country is that you can continue to believe these false doctrines, spread this hateful message and claim it’s the word of God. Just know that God will ALWAYS bring others to speak the truth in places like these.

  • Rhonda

    What does it matter if people are born gay or develop it? Exodus international, the reparative therapy group that said they could convert gays into straights have come out, issued an apology to all gay people and asserted that their therapy did not work. It is also abusive therapy. And did you ever think that you and other “Christians” are one of the main reason young gay people commit suicide? With all your writings, bigotry and homophobia it is certain that these children experience horrible self esteem issues and certain that the other kids that bully them get their ideas from the likes of you. I guarantee you no one wants to grow up gay. Plus I find that your examples leave out much of what was said in these studies. What is your motivation for this? It has been shown time and time again that the ones who are the most outspoken and hostile against gays are usually the ones hiding their own homosexuality feelings. I suggest you deal with your own demons instead of attacking others. You can find help if you take yourself away from people with the same problem and find others who are supportive and accepting. You know, the ones that act like Jesus

    • Andy

      Rhonda, two questions for you: (1) What determines morality? And (2) many now believe that pedophiles are also “born that way.” Does that make pedophilia “okay”?

      • Rhonda

        Yes I realized that about pedophiles one day when a terrible thought went through my head. It was this…”What if I wake up tomorrow and I’m a pedophile!” Because that is exactly how it happens. No one choses to be a pedophile and what a horrible burden to have. The problem was that laws were enacted where if a person mentioned that they had those feelings to a psychiatrist that psychiatrist had to report them so people just suffered in silence and often times acted out. Now there are many pedophiles, some on online support groups who have never touched a child but know that they have that proclivity. So these people I commend. And contrary to what was initially thought, a lot of pedophiles can recover with the proper therapy. So that is something to be grateful for – that you did not grow up and find yourself a pedophile. And what determines morality? For me first is not hurting anyone. And also actively trying, through my daily life and by other means to help people. Smiling at people, giving a compliment or just making small talk in the grocery line can brighten another’s day. We all have the power to make others feel valuable and worthy. I also personally do not believe in indiscriminate sex or in anything that could hurt myself or others. And, in my religion we learn to try and relieve other people’s sufferings and wish them happiness and I do that. My religion is Buddhism.

      • Kim Hudlet

        Pedophiles harm other people and LGBT people do not. Pedophiles exhibit pathology in many areas of their lives and pathological thinking. I have seen no credible studies indicating pedophiles are born that way. I have only seen hateful, right wing rhetoric attempting to pathologies LGBTQ people by insisting it is a Mental illness or somehow inherently maladjusted. This is nothing but self serving hate mongering and the epitome if arrogance in that it contradicts the entire medical/psychiatric/psychological profession and decades of research that led us to remove these as mental illnesses. But how can a bunch of scientists and researchers, professionals in the field POSSIBLY know more about mental illness than a conservative Christian with a GED?

  • Michael Davis

    You think maybe a lot of those self a destructive behaviors come about because of the way LGBT your are abused, dehumanized, and marginalized by people who think like the author?

    • Gary

      Perverts will be rejected by some of us. God rejects them too. You reap what you sow. If you want to be a pervert, you should expect that some people are not going to like you.

      • Rhonda

        Thank you for giving us a very clear example of why the suicide rates of LGBT people are so high. Imagine growing up with people like you all around, putting you down and calling you names. And then getting beat up and feeling scared all the time. Being shunned by ignorants such as yourself but not knowing not to care. You are the problem. You and the author and the other cruel anti-human, anti-life people who feel the need to spit on others to make up for your own insecurities. Somehow beating up on people gives you a false sense of superiority. But it never lasts does it? You have to keep doing it like an addiction. An addiction to spreading negativity. I suggest you change your game. You will never be happy with the attitude that you now have.

        • CL

          Should all forms of behavior be accepted, just so that people don’t get depressed and kill themselves?
          Or should we help people to behave in a manner that is acceptable so that they don’t feel the need to kill themselves?

          • Rhonda

            How are you going to help people change their sex chromosomes which, by the way, very often contribute for transexualism. What about a hermaphrodite? How do you want to help them to behave in a manner that is “acceptable” to you? Or what about some other mutations? Do you think your approach may be too simplistic for the real world? How about these abnormalities? Sex chromosome disorders belong to a group of genetic conditions that are caused or affected by the loss or damage of sex chromosomes (gonosomes).
            In humans this may refer to:
            47,XXX
            48, XXXX
            49 XXXXY syndrome
            49, XXXXX
            Klinefelter’s syndrome, XXY
            Turner syndrome, X
            XX gonadal dysgenesis
            XX male syndrome
            XXYY syndrome
            XYY syndrome

            Be grateful for being born without such problems. And stop judging others like Jesus told you to not judge others in the first place.

          • CL

            Greetings Rhonda, Lots of people are born with abnormalities that they must learn to live with. It doesn’t mean the abnormal becomes normal.

          • Paul

            Who determines which abnormalities gets to be ostracized by society and treated as a lesser?

          • CL

            Greetings Paul, No one should ever be treated as ‘lesser’ because they have an abnormality, but any abnormality is going to have an effect on a person’s life that they have to adjust to.

          • Kim Hudlet

            CL, the more you post, the more ignorant your comments. Characterizing an entire group of people as having an abnormality because you don’t understand it is the very definition of treating someone as lesser. Again, you continue to provide more evidence of a definite lack of education and understanding.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Apparently the Radical Christians and Radical Muslims, which are more and more difficult to distinguish.

          • Kim Hudlet

            They only have to learn to live with it until we develop the science to correct it,,,,,hence Gender Confirmation Surgery. We have the science to know that Conversion therapy is not only not needed because there is nothing to indicate there is anything inherently maladaptive about an LGBTQI identity, only the external society or physical issues that need to be addressed, it has the efficacy of applying leaches. Leaches don’t cause nearly as much harm, but are equally effective for curing a non-problem. If we follow your logic (and I use the term loosely) we should stop all medical research to find cures for illnesses because we are destroying God’s creation.

          • CL

            Hi Kim, I guess you didn’t take time to read the articles I suggested to you?

          • Kim Hudlet

            As I noted before, I did. And they have nothing to do with this discussion, and they are questionable attempts to manipulate emotions by these sites, completely in keeping with their MO. See my above comment on this. We are talking about the science of genetics, endocrinology, fetal development, and inherent mental health of LGBTQI people. You provided nothing scientific, nothing credible.

          • CL

            Nothing credible? People who have lived it? Nothing credible?
            I find that statement in-credible.

          • Paul

            Is their behavior what causes them to kill themselves or the way other people judge and treat them?
            ~Matthew 7

          • CL

            Greetings Paul, It’s not about judging. The world is upside down and backwards, just as the scriptures warned us of…. ‘Woe when they put evil for good, and good for evil’….
            From the moment our children are born we as parents have a duty to teach them how to get along in the world. We don’t expect the world to conform to whatever behavior our children adopt. This is chaos, which is precisely what the enemy of the Creator is using his influence to create, so that the creation destroys itself. Destroy the children, destroy the next generation, destroy the creation.

          • Kim Hudlet

            CL, again you are quoting scripture, but don’t understand what you are reading. When “they put evil for good..” when the church actively uses its funds and energy to take over politics and deprive people of human rights, ignores and even promotes bullying of vulnerable children; when the Church’s commission is to feed the poor, homeless, disenfranchised, widows and orphans. The new testament church was formed to reach out to spread the love of God, yet it is actively working to bring harm to children and standing on debunked “science” to justify itself, using the same tired language, arguments, and scripture it used in the 1800’s to maintain racism, 1900’s to maintain segregation and discriminatory laws. Thank God Rosa Parks, Ghandi, Dorothy Height, Susan B Anthony, Dr. Bhimrao Ramji Ambedkar, and so many others didn’t have you for a father. Someone who taught them to learn their place and not be “uppity.” Not to buck the system because the world is comfortable like it is. Read “white, straight, cisgendered men are comfortable like it is. Most of you do your best to train your children to shut up and know their place, but enough of us don’t listen and we follow our conscience. Fortunately, you and your generation will die out soon and the chaos you bring to the church and society with you.
            You also haven’t met Jesus Christ of the new testament. He was one of the biggest rabble rousers and advocates for social change in his ministry. Here’s a well known fact that has apparently escaped you…..he was crucified for not “getting along in the world.” He stood up to the Pharisees and Sadducee’s bigotry and intolerance and dined with the lepers and other untouchables. I’m pretty sure he’d be hanging out at those open and affirming churches today.

          • CL

            18 Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope:

            I suggest to read the book of the prophet Isaiah, all of chapter 5.
            Peace and blessings to you.

          • Kim Hudlet

            I have many times. In fact, did a study on it in grad school. Surely you realize these passages perfectly apply to you, CL.

          • CL

            Greetings Kim, I think you need to read again… check your memory. 😉

          • Kim Hudlet

            I remember it well. The Vintner who allows the vineyard to be overgrown. He set it up with perfect laws and ordinances, and yet the grapes (church) fall away and grow wild. The church refuses Jesus example of love and compassion to the poor and vulnerable, instead using its resources to self promote the wealth and status of the white cis-gendered heterosexual and so God allows the vineyard to be overgrown with briars and brambles. The white, cis-gendered, heterosexual males go on to cry about the overgrowth of brambles and thorns, which God has given over to their arrogance and pride, and wail about the dismal state of the nation, when they have brought it upon themselves by turning away from God and His perfect creation by demanding that they, like Lucifer, be treated as the most beautiful and perfect creation, closest to God;s heart. When God chose the “least of these, they rebelled, trashing everything in sight and insisting the devastation, briars and brambles are a result of that which God has called good. Instead of repenting, the arrogant fools whine and cry about the state of the nation and insist it is the result of those who follow Christ’s example rather than take responsibility for destroying the nation (vineyard).

          • CL

            Greetings Kim, That’s quite an interpretation… full of the influence of your own mind and thinking I’d say.
            I think you should read Isaiah 5 again, and focus on the last half of the chapter.
            Peace and blessings to you.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Exactly the point “CL” your interpretation is benefiting only you and isn’t even consistent with God’s word. I don’t expect you to understand. It requires a Godly heart and an open mind. That being said, I am so bored with you troglodytes, Pharisees and Sadducees. I have no desire to throw pearls before swine and need to go minister to those you and your ilk have damaged. Peace to you. Please stop hurting those who Christ has claimed as his own.

          • Kim Hudlet

            I agree CL. Bullying, name-calling, rejecting people, depriving of their basic human rights and dignity because of whatever one person’s opinion is about what two consenting adults choose to do, in accordance with their nature and their biology, is absolutely unacceptable and should not be tolerated. Any suggestions about how we stop the hatefulness and bigotry? And yes, that’s still correct use of the word. If I don’t like how certain churches are mean spirited and preach doctrine I believe is misguided, I don;t go to that church. I don’t try to pass laws to have the denomination and it’s participants criminalized or deemed mentally ill. If you don’t like gay marriage, don’t have one; if you don’t think sexual reassignment surgery is right, dont have it; if you don’t like abortions, don’t have one; if you don’t want other people dictating what you can do in the bedroom, stay out of other peoples’ bedrooms and bathroom stalls. You CANNOT claim to support freedom, justice, and liberty and deny it to others.

      • Rebecca Monti

        You are right about reaping what you sow. You sow hatred, animosity, and discrimination. Just you wait until everyone starts turning on you, cause if you haven’t be paying attention Gary….. It’s already started.

      • Kim Hudlet

        God does. You will have a lot to answer for Gary, but that’s between you and God. You need to stay out of othe people’s bedrooms and bathroom stalls. You’re the pervert. The isn’t an LGBT person on the planet that cares what’s in your pants or what you do in your bedroom.

    • Andy

      Um . . . this is addressed in the article, dude. Learn to read; learn to think. Barber writes:

      “Lest you buy the left wing talking point that so-called ‘homophobia’ leads to high rates of suicide and other devastating consequences of the ‘LGBT’ lifestyle, a recent study from ‘gay’-affirming Sweden dispels this myth. The research, published in the May issue of the European Journal of Epidemiology, found that people entering into a ‘gay marriage’ were, as mirrored above, nearly three times as likely to commit suicide than their heterosexual counterparts.

      “ ‘Even in a country with a comparatively tolerant climate regarding homosexuality such as Sweden,’ observed the researchers, ‘same-sex married individuals evidence a higher risk for suicide than other married individuals.’ ”

      And by “thinking like the author,” do you mean people who DO THEIR RESEARCH??? Sheesh, grab some objectivity.

      • Michael Davis

        Critical thinking. The author is saying those things do not happen. He is flat-out wrong. The study he cites does not exist except on the conservative blogosphere. So there’s that, then. Care to cite any more made up research? You see, I actually know how to do research, not “find articles that agree with my position.”

        The European Journal of Epidemiology is a peer-reviewed scholarly journal that studies communicable disease not sociology. But please, tell me how I dont research.

        That’s the problem with you Jesus freaks. Somebody tells you something and you believe it because you want it to be true.

        • Rhonda

          Bravo!

        • Andy

          Name me one human being who lacks a worldview bias. That said, it’s possible to be aware of one’s bias so as to consciously, purposely work against it. But are you telling me leftists/secular-humanists don’t have such a bias and don’t themselves want certain things to be true?

          And if I’m a “Jesus freak,” what kind of freak are you? What convictions do you hold as your life-fundamentals that you won’t give up without a fight?

          Lastly, who cares who authored what study, or what outlet publishes it? Is it accurate or not? Your automatic, knee-jerk rejection of a report or viewpoint only because of who published it and where, amply demonstrates your own bias on the issue.

          I can guarantee that if this author held the opposite position, and cited a report by a secular-humanist, you wouldn’t have bat an eye at it.

        • Barbi

          And you don’t believe or disbelieve based on your bias and desires? I admit I have a bias –but I also know that it is affirmed by not just the Bible –(which shapes my biases) –but by observation of society –and by much research by learned professionals. Those who want to affirm LGT’s do not believe the Bible is true. They think it doesn’t matter how we live –even though LGT’s are at high risk for STD’s and other misery. You say, because we don’t treat them well enough. No matter how we treat them, they’ll have a lot more health problems simply because of sodomy –which is unnatural and high risk for STD’s and other problems.

      • Rhonda

        Yes there is an entire Google thread with sites attesting to what this author said. And none of them are worth a squat because they are homophobic “pro-family” false propaganda feeders.. When you do research you have to be very careful where you get your information. Sweden is full of different ethnicities and religions and to believe that everyone gets along is naive.

        From Euro News: Homophobia remains
        Twelve years of same-sex marriage did not wipe out homophobia from society. For instance, Yunus, now 9, and his adoptive mothers had to go into hiding, fearing for their safety.

        Bullying and victimisation also still occurs on a daily basis. A recent study by Dutch and American scientists concluded that lesbian, gay and bisexual youths are still victims of stigmatisation in their families, schools and neighbourhoods.

        These words and acts have tragic consequences: almost 64% of the surveyed LGBT 18-24-year-olds in the study reported thinking about suicide and almost 13% of them attempted suicide. For straight Dutch youths of the same age group, the figures are respectively 10.3% (thought about suicide) and 2.2% (attempted suicide). The study suggests that ongoing persecution, especially at school and by the parents, are linked to increased risks in suicidal thoughts and attempts.

        Chambon notes that there have been a handful of lesbian couples who had to move because of negative and aggressive reactions from their neighbours. But, he says, those are “marginal epi-phenomena”, equivalent in numbers to the occurrence of migrant families who had to move because of racism in their neighbourhoods. However, he recalls that, when looking for a new flat with his husband, several people strongly recommended against moving to a few districts in Amsterdam because they fear the locals’ reactions. Proof, if need be, that equality is only real when the mindset, not only the legal framework, changes too.
        ———————————————————————————————————————–

        So if you really want to know who is responsible for the suicides include yourself for perpetrating falsehoods and trying to make LGBT people look inferior. That is all I hear from people like this author and you. I think you all should be pulling the planks out of your eyes before picking on splinters in other people who are vulnerable and victimized. Shame on all of you!

        • CL

          I think you’ve highlighted exactly what is wrong with supporting homosexual choices….
          it thinks nothing of the child…. only of adult wants. it is self-indulgent behavior.

          • Michael Davis

            The ones hurting the children are you intolerant religious bigots.

          • Andy

            Why are you intolerant of Christians? And why do you equate a different viewpoint with bigotry?

          • Husband of the Year

            Tip the fedora!

          • Kim Hudlet

            And back to uneducated, bigoted hateful statements with no basis in fact. Decades of REAL research has shown that children raised by same sex couples are healthy and as well adjusted as those raised by heterosexual couples. Bullied children raised in any kind of family don’t fair well. It’s so sad that you want to blame the horrible bullying on loving parents rather the parents who perpetuate the bullying with the kind of things you are posting here.

          • CL

            Hi Kim, You can check out these articles, just Google the titles.

            Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay ‘Marriage’ in Federal Court
            Dear Justice Kennedy: An Open Letter from the Child of a Loving Gay Parent
            New York Times Ignores Children of Gay Parents Who Want a Mom and Dad

            (especially before you go calling people uneducated, bigoted, or hateful…. I have no hate, I am well educated, and I won’t even talk about the way the word bigoted is thrown around)

            Peace to you.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Hi CL,
            Really? CNS news, Public Discourse, The Witherspoon Institute aka Family Research Council and Roman Catholic traditionalists? These are the sources you offer? I obviously gave you far too much credit. You have posted nothing but but arrogance and hatefulness, judgement and condemnation based on willful ignorance. here and you do it while hiding behind a blank avatar and initials. I would be embarrassed if I were you, too. You have offered no evidence of education or experience; certainly not in the mental health or medical field. Your categorization of LGBTQ people as somehow less than, is the most un-Christlike attitude and something God hates (need me to cite the passage?)

          • CL

            Greetings Kim,
            I have shared with you the testimonies of adults, raised as children, in the homosexual lifestyle.
            You discredit them by not even reading their testimonies… and dare I say that you show your ‘bigotry’… your clinging to your beliefs, your expressions of … well, if not hatred, then at least disdainful attack, as though what you have to say outweighs what these others have to say.

            I have never categorized homosexual leaning people as ‘somehow less than’…. you have done that.
            Peace to you.

          • Kim Hudlet

            You really ARE a trump supporter! You use the same debate tactics: “I know you are, but what am I?” I absolutely did read them. I said nothing about people who are angry at their LGBTQ parents. I am more than willing to sit down with anyone who wants to share their experience good or bad, and I do that for at least 40 hour per week. Not every LGBTQ parent should be a parent, just as not every heterosexual cis-gendered parent deserves to be. What I said was that the sources of these “letters” are some of the most dishonest and non-credible sites out there. It makes the letters questionable because these sites fabricate “information” on a regular basis to manipulate emotions. The above article being a prime example. It also has nothing to do with the discussion which is your claim that a certain percent of the population is lesser than.

            Your comments have very much categorized LGBTQ people as “aberrant” and “abnormal,” as behavior that should not be tolerated and suggest that their parents should have taught them to get along in the world rather than expecting the world to tolerate them. I am guilty of being disdainful of, and even aangry toward willful ignorance when it harms children and vulnerable people and it’s done in the name of God. I believe that behavior is worthy of of being called out and exposed for what it is. I’m not demanding that you change it. You are vastly overestimating the importance of what you think and your opinion to me or to the millions of LGBTQI people in the world who are living well and raising healthy and loving families. We worship side by side in churches in hundreds of mainstream denominations and my children play with the children of the lesbian couple at church and the gay couple next door. Our associate Pastor is an AMAZING scholar, pastor, teacher, and is married to a wonderful transexual man and they have a beautiful daughter who is healthy, happy, and brilliant. Your hateful opinions are yours to keep…..no one actually cares what you think. I am simply here to tell the truth where Radical Christians spread hateful words, false science, and false doctrine. I hate to burst your bubble, but the world doesn’t revolve around you or the false teachers you surround yourself to tell you what you want to hear.

          • CL

            Greetings Kim,
            Again with the ‘lesser than’ claim? I’ve never made any such claim…. never had any such feeling… although ‘you’ seem to keep saying it.

            I think I see where your confusion is coming from…. you twist my words…. or they get twisted as they enter your mind anyway.
            Being an aberration or abnormal does not mean less than. It means different, singular.
            It also does not mean, and I did not say, that the world ‘should not tolerate them’. I do say they should be guided as to how to best get along in a world where they are not the norm.
            All children are taught how best to get along in the world. The world does not accommodate them… they learn how best to fit in. ‘If you want to buck the system, you’re gonna get bucked.’ is something I can imagine any earlier generation teaching to their young’uns.

            I also find it interesting how you can not see that you are the only one that has ‘spewed hatred’ (i.e., angry, attacking words). Do you ever ask yourself where that comes from, and why it is there? People living in the Truth do not have hate and feel no need to attack. People living in deception often get defensive…. it’s called running from the light.
            I wish you peace.

          • Kim Hudlet

            CL, So much projection from you…

          • Husband of the Year

            It’s a very useful tactic.

          • CL

            just as an aside….
            interesting comment, considering you are the one whose profile is kept as ‘private’. 😉

          • Kim Hudlet

            As an aside…..I post with my full name and picture…easily googled. You?

          • Kim Hudlet

            CL, judging by your comment about the way the word bigoted is thrown around, I think it wise that you not talk about it because you obviously do not understand what the word means. Consistent with everything else you have posted here, you didn’t even bother to look that up, so I’ll help you out on this one.
            BIGOTED – a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred and intolerance. Miriam-Webster So, as you can see, I used the word exactly in context and appropriate for its definition, and I stand by it regarding it’s application to your posts here.

          • CL

            bigot –
            a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.

            bigoted –
            having or revealing
            an obstinate belief in the superiority of one’s own opinions and a
            prejudiced intolerance of the opinions of others.

            It seems that alot of people don’t understand what intolerant means.
            Holding a different opinion, and sharing that different opinion, does not make a person a bigot, or bigoted.

            ‘especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred ‘
            Again, no hatred… expressing a differing opinion does not equate to hatred… it does not even equate to superiority.

            Peace and blessings to you.

          • Kim Hudlet

            “homosexual choices….
            it thinks nothing of the child…. only of adult wants. it is self-indulgent behavior.” Another example of you viewing and treating LGBTQI people with respect and as deserving of equal rights and benefits as you have?

          • CL

            Hi Kim, Yes. I am faced with choices also. I can think of myself, or I can think of how my actions have an effect on others, and the greater society. What does the Creator expect of us? to think of ourselves, or to think of others and how our actions affect the whole?

          • Kim Hudlet

            CL, if you had even one iota of concern for anyone else, you wouldn’t have brought babies into this world that you polluted with misogynistic, bigoted BS.

        • Andy

          Ah, there we go: someone has a different viewpoint, so they’re “not worth a squat.” Kudos on your objectivity!

          Question: When did you begin to develop your Christophobia?

          • Rhonda

            Please! You people have a disdain for facts and that is why your “news” is not worth squat. It has nothing to do with viewpoint it has to do with accepting actual facts and not twisting them to fit your own homophobic needs like this author did. His writing here is so filled with lies it is despicable. Like he starts of talking about the CDC then he mentions Linda Harvey from World Net Daily, (another right wing anti-gay hate group) and then puts up all these “statistics” that are not from the CDC but made up by her or someone else. Linda Harvey’s article is just another hatefest with no real statistics. And the “study” by Dr. Lawrence S. Mayer and Dr. Paul R. McHugh, is published in a non-respected journal. An “impact factor” is how many times the journal is cited in other journals and this is used as a judge as to the actual importance of the journal. For most of it’s life this journal, The New Atlantis” did not even qualify for an “impact factor” and the latest is .53 or less than 1%. The New England Journal of medicine’s impact factor is 56%. So that is what the real scientific community thinks of the information this author is using.

          • Rhonda

            And I am not afraid of Christians although you have caused and continue to cause untold sufferings in this world, It is just that so many of you act nothing like Jesus. You don’t follow Jesus’s teachings on love, tolerance, forgiveness and non-judgement. No, you actively fight to hurt people and say it is in the name of your religions. Eating shellfish is mentioned as an abomination 4 times more than gay acts are yet you obsess over gays. And I know that even if I tell you these things it will not stop you. No, you are so addicted to your need to put others down so you can feel superior that you will settle for lies just so you can act on your impulses. Just like the Christian crusades where more people have been killed by Christians than any other group in the world. Yet I’m sure you think Muslims are the barbarians.

      • Rebecca Monti

        You might want to actually do your own research first…. The writer of this article didn’t do his research. If you want to do the research start by looking into that paper and why it was published in that specific journal and no other journals, even though it was submitted to many.

      • Kim Hudlet

        You also need to actally read the actual research paper. Not that this former boxer shouldn’t be considered an expert on the subject be the right wing consrvatives, but McHugh is notorious for flagrantly misquoting studies and the authors.

      • Kim Hudlet

        I’m having a little trouble figuring out what you’re trying to say there….Barber didn’t do ANY research. He quotes a dishonored Psychiatrist who is best known in the scientific community for completely, intentionally, and maliciously misquoting studies to say the opposite of what the results show to claim they are damaging to LGBTQ people. He pontificates about psychiatric issues he has absolutely no education or experience to comment on…..You also need to understand that a met-analysis isn’t primary research, and this is just another twisting of the actual conclusions of several of these studies finding. Here’s a clue that you need to read the original article: anybody wonder why an article published in the European Journal of Epidemiology would be talking about relationship and mental health issues/ Any curiosity about why there is no reference to the article and the only link sends you to another Radical Christian rag that is just as crazy and opposed to actual science as this one? That rag doesn’t cite the article either, just make a bunch of inflamatory statements that have no basis in fact. Why so eager to jump on the “ignorance is a virtue, science is a hoax” bandwagon?

    • Rebecca Monti

      Exactly! This article is like looking over a gunshot victim trying to explain it was the blood loss and not the gunshot that killed them, when you’re the one who shot them.

    • Husband of the Year

      How can a self respecting white male write this?

      • Michael Davis

        Easy, if he is a decent human being.

        • Husband of the Year

          What’s that?

    • Barbi

      Yes, I suspect self-destructive behaviors result from abuse, etc –and I think homosexual identity itself is a self-destructive behavior resulting from treatment by others –the peer ridicule for being a late bloomer or effeminate (or a masculine girl) due to lack of same gender parental influence and affirmation –or due to being too inappropriately close to the opposite gender parent –or over-identification with same-gender parent –or just for being a non-stereotypically macho guy or feminine girl –in body type and size, etc. Bottom line is that, unless there is a physical anatomical defect as with the inter-sexed –or a chromosomal abnormality as in xxy or xyy, if the anatomy and chromosomes are normal and healthy then those people should be affirmed in their natural sexuality –no matter what ways they are non-stereotypically masculine or feminine in interests or appearance. I’ve known effeminate men and tomboy women who were nevertheless normal in attraction and became happily hetero-marrieds and parents –who were not drawn into homosexual activities and relationships by homosexuals on the make for younger prey –who were accepted and affirmed in their normalcy as boys and girls, men and women. That’s the part of the anti-bullying campaign that IS correct –we shouldn’t label or call names on the basis of sexuality–just boys and girls, men and women –all with an assignment from their Maker. “Male and female created He them” because “it was not good for man to be alone.” And so Jesus said, because we were made male and female by God, man is to “leave his parents and cleave to his wife.”

  • Heidi Smith

    As a pastor and in my secular career prior to becoming a pastor, I have worked with numerous gays and lesbians. My secular career was in reproductive veterinary medicine, and in that line of work, I had cause to consider homosexuality in the animal world as well, where there is not the psychological baggage that it has in the human sphere. While I do believe that there ARE those who are “born that way” (and this is backed up by observations in the animal kingdom–despite the fact that obviously heterosexual animals will sometimes demonstrate homosexual BEHAVIORS in certain settings, there ARE those rare individuals who simply do NOT respond to ANY heterosexual stimuli and in domestic sheep, male homosexuality as an ORIENTATION has actually been noted), I think the author is absolutely right that many humans who self-identify as LGBT do so because of environmental causes such as abuse, or being “classified” at a young age when same sex attraction is actually normal, etc.

    Personally, I think each LGBT person needs to really self-examine and determine the root of their self-identification. If it is indeed due to early pressures, then by all means GET HELP. That said, I know some who really have been “different” since early childhood with no identifiable environmental factors to “cause” their orientation–and it is pretty clear that they were, indeed, “born that way.” Twin studies also suggest a genetic link to true “born-that-way” homosexual orientation.

    Bottom line (and I think this article nails it) is that we need a lot more honesty and compassion on this subject, and a lot less emoting and political agendizing (sorry for the made-up word).

    • Oh dear, um, bless your heart. I will keep you in this pastor’s prayers that you will be freed from fear, loathing and willful ignorance peddling so that you may truly know the liberating love of Christ Jesus.

      • Heidi Smith

        If you are aiming this at me, I can assure you I have no fear, loathing, or willful ignorance from which I need to be freed. I know the liberating love of Christ Jesus, and I know that He loves others as He does me, even those who are different from me. That said, “willful ignorance” seems to thrive on both sides of this problem, and I’ve seen it politicized and treated as an “agenda” by both liberals and conservatives. Neither extreme is conducive to simply trying to understand that people are who they are, and just accepting that.

    • Kim Hudlet

      I appreciate your willingness to confirm that homosexuality and trans gender issues have always been present in the animal kingdom, across species and therefore is “natural” in the most basic sense of the word. What I am puzzled by are your statements about people claiming to be LGBT because of abuse and trauma history. Would you share what your background in psychiatry and mental health is that gives you such insights and the basis for that trauma theory? As a 30 year veteran in the Mental Health field, I have seen no such research indicating a CAUSAL relationship between abuse and gender orientation or identity. There is a correlation between higher rates of sexual orientation/identity minorities and physical, emotional and sexual abuse. The vast majority of men who were sexually abused by men, are still heterosexual. The vast majority of male sexual abusers who abuse boys are heterosexual, more than 90% (consistent with the general population) On the other hand, LGBT boys and girls experience higher rates of abuse, because they experience much higher rates of the risk factors that increase risk for abuse and violence BECAUSE of their sexual orientation. Risk factors that increase any child’s likelihood of experiencing abuse or violence include rejection by family/parents, loss of support of faith community, teen homelessness (LGBTQ teens experience very high rates after being thrown out by parents), physical abuse (good Christian parents trying to beat the gay out of them happens at alarming rates), harsher disciplinary methods than their heterosexual siblings, bullying by peers, indifference to their pain and suffering by authority figures such as teachers, pastors, legislators telling them they don’t deserve the same rights as everyone else (consider our modern Jim Crowe laws and rabid nutballs in legislatures like Tennessee’s Susan Lynn), etc I could go on, but I think you get the picture. I specialize in trauma work and have seen so many LGBT people with problems BECAUSE of the abuse they suffer at higher rates because of the sickness and sinfulness of the human race who distort God’s/Allah’s word to justify their heinous treatment of the children Jesus called “the least of these.” One of the most damaging abuses I have ever seen has been the incredible cruelty of so-called Christian Counselors who inflict incredible psychological and sexual abuse on LGBTQ people under the guise of “reparative” or “conversion” therapy. There is a reason it has been outlawed in many states for minors and any therapist with and ounce of morality or ethical sense would never consider such abuse. Yet the rebublican party has Conversion therapy for adolescents as part of its election platform?

      • Heidi Smith

        I have training in both population genetics and mental health. It is clear that a significant number of LGBT are born as exactly what they are–L, G, B, T, etc. Twin studies indicate that there is at least some genetic basis for homosexuality (have not delved as much into transgender, but would not be surprised but what the same is true). In my own experience, homosexual individuals do tend to run in families–which of course can be both genetic and environmental.

        I agree that aggressive “conversion” therapy has been very harmful to many individuals–but you have to concede that in some individuals, it also has worked well. The very fact that it works in SOME would indicate that THOSE particular individuals were NOT “hardwired” into their orientation but rather came to it from abuse, rape, cultural pressure, or whatever. That is why I think counselors have to be VERY careful in dealing with individuals who are struggling with their identity in a homosexual “lifestyle” (which I think is a very unfortunate word–for those who are born gay, it is not a “lifestyle”–it is just plain “life”) to ascertain if they really ARE, in fact, gay–or if they have been dragged into it by extenuating circumstances. For the latter, carefully considered conversion therapy may well be beneficial–but for the many who are the former, you are right that it can be devastating. I agree that it should not be done with minors–and it should only be attempted after careful workup in anyone, to make sure that it is actually appropriate. (It’s kind of like ascertaining if a stroke is caused by a clot or a failure to clot–if you treat a clot with more clotting medication, you kill the patient–and if you treat a bleed with anticoagulants, you kill the patient… Mental health professionals need to be equally discerning!)

        Another issue with minors is that those who identify at young ages tend to be people who really ARE “hardwired” to be homosexual, in my experience–hence you are more apt to make a heinous mistake by trying to “cure” them with “conversion therapy.”

        BTW, I would count myself as a “conservative Christian”–but as a student of population genetics, I also believe that the Church over the centuries has a great deal to answer for in having forced untold numbers of homosexuals into heterosexual relationships in order to appear “normal” in the eyes of the Church (truly, even if God did not “make” people homosexual any more than He “made” them with any other anomaly, He still loves them as the way they are in this broken world–it is the Church who has condemned them!), given that we now understand that there is a genetic component to homosexuality, I’d say the Church as a lot to answer for, forcing gay people to propagate, and then condemning the increased number of gay children who have been born into this world! In a natural setting, homosexuality smolders along at well under 1% of the population–and even if one takes into account that some people engaged in homosexual “lifestyles” may not be “hardwired” that way, the percentage of humans who are homosexual is FAR higher than 1%! The Church (as well as faiths like Islam) share in the elevation of that number from what it would normally be if it just occurred naturally and gay individuals were not forced into the closet. So add that to your list of “abuses.”

        • Kim Hudlet

          Agreed, Mental Health therapist need to be discerning and very careful. There is no place in therapy for pushing someone into any orientation. A therapist’s job is to help a client explore their identity until they find what is right for them. I can’t imagine any therapist pushing someone into being non-heterosexual or non-cisgendered. Conversion therapy begins with the premise that there is something inherently wrong with a non-heterosexual orientation or a transgender identity and the methods used are devastating, even if the client is simply questioning. One of the issues that society needs to understand that gender and sexual orientation exist on a continuum rather than in a binary. If a therapist can’t identify trauma and address that, either in their work or through referral, then there is a problem.

          • Heidi Smith

            You are right about the continuum–only I’d submit that it is even more than that. It is not like a linear continuum, but more three-dimensional with all sorts of nuances and variations. One of the variations is that trauma and abuse CAN cause homosexual preferences in people who are hardwired to be heterosexual. That is a whole different issue than helping someone who is truly homosexual to deal with their identity, and with any abuse they may have received because they were “different.” I’d submit that if ANY therapy is approached with presuppositions, the therapist needs to rethink the approach–not just conversion therapy.

          • Kim Hudlet

            I agree for the most part. I just don’t think that anyone hardwired to be 100% heterosexual is going to develop homosexual preferences due to abuse. I think that people who fall into the bisexual realm may choose to pursue same sex relationships because they feel safer.

          • Heidi Smith

            As you yourself said, sexuality occurs on a continuum, so phrases like “100% heterosexual” do not represent the norm. Most people who are “hardwired” one way or the other probably fall in the 90+% realm, if one were to apply some sort of mythical numbering system.

            That said, I’ve known a number of women who have fallen into this situation, and as you say, it is because they felt “safer” because they were abused by men. I personally don’t know any men who have fit this scenario, but there could be some out there. I think it is more common with women–there are differences between men and women in how they express sexuality anyway, which has made it “easier” (for lack of a better word–sexual unhappiness is never “easy”) for lesbian women to “function” as passive partners in heterosexual relationships than it is for men to do the same (although many do manage). In nature, the males who are truly homosexual simply do not reproduce, whereas the females do, since they can be passive in the actual breeding process, unlike the males, hence they can and do get impregnated by males which are sufficiently aggressive to mate without any particular courting behavior from the female. (I personally saw this in a few mares, who would show ZERO heat behavior to stallions but would show to other mares. Still, they would stand for breeding by a dominant stallion, as it was better than getting the crap kicked out of them.) I’ve had women actually tell me that what drew them to the female partner was that she seemed “safe” after what they had been through.

            Interestingly enough, I just read an article on Elizabeth Smart, the LDS girl who was abducted several years ago and held for 9 months, during which she was raped repeatedly. She questions the LDS emphasis on “purity” (which is not dissimilar to some of the practices of the Christian church) in which young women are repeatedly told they are somehow “damaged” or “worthless” if they have been raped. This raises a very good point in the context of this discussion, with regard to women who have had that kind of upbringing, and how they react to sexual abuse–in such scenarios, some women feel that no decent man will ever want them again, and that helps to drive their seeking shelter in a homosexual relationship.

            Again, this is not meant to describe women who are truly lesbian, and who are simply born that way. Those women tend to self-describe (in my experience, anyway) as having felt “different” even in childhood, and even if they tried to live a heterosexual lifestyle in order to conform, they were miserable with it, even if they had a decent and kind partner who was not abusive in any way.

    • pand ne mo nium

      Twin studies show very clearly that you are not born homosexual. There are twins that are both homosexual and there are identical twins, those that share the same egg who are not both homosexual. For them to prove that you are born homosexual, twins who share the same egg would both have to be homosexual. The fact that this is not always the case proves that you are NOT born homosexual.

      And the animal kingdom does not backup born that way. Animals have been known to display homosexual tendencies but they always revert back to heteroseual activity because their place in the pack depends on it. No animal is going to become the king of the pack by having sex with other males. They do not fight to have the ascendancy over the females and the right to impregnate them if they are boy lovers so this claim about the animal kingdom is just a figment of some homosexuals imagination to claim legitimacy for their perversion.

      But then when your whole way of life is based on lies you have to keep inventing lies to support your original one.

      • Heidi Smith

        Sorry, but genetics is one of my areas of study, and you are just plain wrong. Twin studies have shown a definite correlation with regard to sexuality in identical twins separated at birth, but it is not 100%. That suggests that there definitely IS a connection, but that genetics is not the ONLY factor involved. Studies in domestic sheep also indicate a genetic link, since some breeds of sheep were apparently selected for traits which turned out to be genetically linked to homosexuality, as the rate of homosexual orientation in rams in a few breeds at one point was running as high as 9%–which is WAAAY higher than it would exist in a natural setting.

        You also are apparently unaware of the proven instances of homosexual orientation in a few species of birds, and of anecdotal evidence of it in a few other mammalian species.

        What you are describing as “homosexual tendencies” which “always revert back to heterosexual activity” is in reality simply homosexual BEHAVIOR in normal heterosexual individuals in the animal kingdom. It is NOT at all the same thing as homosexual ORIENTATION. Yes, the yearling bulls will “ride” each other when they are penned up together, but will forget all about “breeding the boys” when they get turned in with a bunch of heifers. It’s no different than adolescent boys “experimenting” or with similar behaviors in many other species. Likewise cows and mares will “ride” other cows or mares who are heat, particularly if those doing the “riding” are pregnant, and under the influence of high levels of progesterone, which is closely related to testosterone and can cause some similar behaviors.

        But yes, there ARE individuals who do NOT “revert” to heterosexuality, even in the wild kingdom. Not all males are destined to become “king of the pack.” (You ARE right that those interested in other males will not have a normal social role–nor will they reproduce–whereas homosexual females may not have any choice in the wild, as dominant males will still mate with them.)

        For the record, my “way of life” is that of a strongly HETEROSEXUAL female who can’t even imagine being attracted to other women. I have no “way of life” to defend with “lies” with regard to this subject. So there. Perhaps you should make a few less assumptions and study a little bit more science.

  • Patrick Johnson

    I didn’t bother reading past the bullet points. Why? One only has to understand that a “study” done on meta data is as about as useful and accurate as anecdotal evidence. A meta data study is only as good as the information used. In any case all this does, at best, is show what was concluded in each of the studies. Correlation isn’t causation.

    We don’t yet know the mechanisms or factors that cause a whole host of things including being gay. That fact doesn’t give anyone the right to then do horrible acts on gay people. Live and let live. If you don’t like something then by all means don’t associate with it. But leave those that do the hell alone.

    • Michael Davis

      The “study” is a fabrication. Utter and complete bollocks.

      • pand ne mo nium

        The fact that you claim the study is a fabrication and utter and complete bollocks means that it is not a fabrication or utter and complete bollocks as the truth is ALWAYS the opposite to the claims of those pushing the unnatural homosexual way of life.

        • Michael Davis

          You would do a service to the world by killing yourself. Find the abstract and post it here, you pathetic moron.

          • pand ne mo nium

            Now that is what I call an intelligent and well thought out comment that shows what wonderful people the moronic fundamentalist left wing haters are.

            You didn’t by any chance win the Nobel Prize for asinine comment did you?

    • Barbi

      That would be fine if homosexuals weren’t influencing youth and children–wanting their agenda in our schools –and ubiquitous in media, tv, education. This is not a lifestyle that does good for any. It is high risk for drug use in youth –and for STD’s Transgenders want us to pay for mutilating sterilizing surgeries and lifetime of hormone treatments so that they can pursue a delusion. What we need is more boys and girls growing up to become husbands and wives raising children in strong marriages , role modeling the masculine and feminine roles for their children, demonstrating maturity , self-control and fidelity.

      • Patrick Johnson

        All these folks want is to be able to live their lives without being hated on, discriminated against. I am pretty sure that you are really really far off the mark. Yes they trying to influence children, to be good citizens and treat others kindly instead doing exactly what you are doing which is hating on someone for not living up to what you think is “normal”. I am positive that the higher risk for std’s, suicide, mental illness, and drug use is a direct result of society causing these folks to have these problems. Why can I say that? Because every single group that society hates on has these same problems in higher amounts than the general population. What we need is for people to educate themselves and treat others kindly. What we need is for children to be taught to treat people as people instead of being treated as some less than human thing.

        • pand ne mo nium

          Oh dear oh dear oh dear. Another rusted on fundamentalist left wing ideologue who blames everyone except themselves for their problems. Such a claim means that you are anti-homosexual as you do not want them to know the truth that homosexuality is a choice. If it is not, then it means that homosexuals are forced to have sex with other men and that means it is wrong because it is not consensual.

          Tell me, how does asking primary school kids to explore 20 different way of having sex making them good citizens?

          • Patrick Johnson

            Yes having sex with someone is a choice but we don’t really get to choose who we are attracted to. I wasn’t aware little children were being taught 20 different ways of having sex. Assuming they are being taught this, explain how having a better sex life is a bad thing, unless you are an uptight prude that thinks people shouldn’t have sex.

          • pand ne mo nium

            You didn’t answer my question which was “how does asking primary school kids to explore 20 different way of having sex making them good citizens?”

          • Patrick Johnson

            I would answer that question just as soon as you show me proof that this is happening and show me that it is a product of lgbt push.

          • pand ne mo nium

            it is product of the so called Safe Schools Programme written by a marxist lesbian, Ros Ward at LaTrobe University in Australia. She has said it has nothing to do with an anti-bullying campaign. It is a push to desensitise children and teenagers towards homosexuality and to gain acceptance for it in schools.

          • Patrick Johnson

            First, I don’t live in Australia and this program isn’t used in the US that I know of. Second, teaching kids tolerance for people who are different is a good thing. Without having direct access to what is being given to kids, I can’t comment on it. From all that I see it is little more than sex education with an additional topic of homosexuality.

          • pand ne mo nium

            It doesn’t teach kids tolerance. Reports have come in that on specials days to celebrate homosexuality, kids who refuse to do that are ostracised and called all sorts of pejorative names as a result. Freedom of speech is obviously not encouraged by schools.

            The so called Safe School Programme is as the author admitted a marxist attempt to condition children to unconditional acceptance of homosexuality and their rejection of all the normal understanding of gender and difference.

            It is billed as a programme to stop bullying but in actual fact it is a programme to promote deviant behaviour and introduce new forms of deviant behaviour. The authors have admitted to this as they are committed to forcing cultural marxism onto the education of children.

            They have said the Australian flag should be taken down from the Parliament flag pole and have it replaced with the hammer and sickle.

            This programme which is billed as dealing with bullying in schools has been used to promote abnormal and unnatural sex and gender fluidity. In other words, you are what you say you are when we all know that we are what we were born as.

            In Victoria the Premier has said that ALL children in State Schools have to undergo this indoctrination from 2018 and if parents complain, too bad because their children cannot opt out. His nickname is Dictator Dan.

          • Patrick Johnson

            You have way too much time on your hands. Reports say, people say, but have you actually seen what these people are doing in the classroom? I willing to bet all you know about it is what you heard from others and never have actually seen anything they put out. Maybe you should think about how hateful you sound. Maybe one day you will be on the other side and have to receive the hate you seem to want to perpetuate.

          • pand ne mo nium

            Yes, that is the great thing about being retired. When people apologies and say sorry it is taking so long I always tell them “don’t worry, I am retired so I have got plenty of time.”

            That is why grandchildren like grandparents so much because they always have time to give attention to them. When we visit our grandchildren, we are always doing things with them right up to bedtime. As you can imagine, our grandchildren love to see us.

            Unlike you, I canvas near and far for information about what I am studying. So far, I have heard from about two dozen sources about the programme many of which have stated what is in the programme. Only this morning, one of our MPs was reading out the content of the programme in Parliament. As you may know, an MP that deliberately lies in Parliament is severely censured and if he is a minister, he will be removed from his position. So I listened as he read out the contents of the programme.

            I have also listened to the author of the programme and what she said about it as reported in the media. She admitted it had nothing at all to do with bullying. It was an attempt to impose cultural Marxism onto schools kids to soften them up to accept the demands of the homosexual community without question.

            In another report she admitted to being a cultural Marxist and a lesbian and wanting to influence how children thought about homosexuality.

            Now when I see the same thing being said by half a dozen sources of varying kind, many of which I know and have confidence in, I know that there is something to the story.

            After a month of listening and reading, I have a very good grasp of what is going on. My ability to absorb information is enhanced because I am autistic.

            As for your asinine comment about me sounding hateful you might like to know that when you believe that the truth is hate, you have a tendency to hate the truth.

            Now when it comes to hate, you have no idea what that is. If you want to know what hate is just take a look at what ISIS is doing in Syria and other places where they kill men, rape women and behead children because they are not muslims.

            I can assure you that telling the truth is definitely not hate and you saying that it is shows that you cannot handle the truth.

      • Kim Hudlet

        Seriously? I am so glad God will deal with you and the rest of us can ignore you because your mind is blank and your heart is dark.

        • pand ne mo nium

          Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z

          • Kim Hudlet

            Sorry pande. I’m trng to keep it to 1 syllable words for you, but I know it must be difficult to pay attention. No worries though, our Sunday evening prayer group is praying for you.

      • MJ

        You sound like a Mike Pence speech.

    • Barbi

      You need to read Family Practice News, this month –article “HIV RISK Gay and Bisexual Male High Schoolers Have high Injected Drug Use” –way more than heterosexuals.

    • pand ne mo nium

      The fact that you claim that we don’t know the mechanisms or factors that cause a person to be homosexual is obviously not the truth as the truth is ALWAYS the opposite of what homosexuals say.

      • Patrick Johnson

        There many things we don’t know how they work but we know they work. Being able to explain how something works has no bearing on whether it works or not.

  • Sandra Stewart

    The main problem is that it was not peer reviewed, it is published in a pay to publish journal. It also cherry picks resources and McHugh is well known as a highly biased “researcher”. It has already been debunked.

    • Rebecca Monti

      Except it was peer reviewed by multiple publishings….. Oh I’m not praising it, this “study” failed every time it was peer reviewed, even when it was reviewed by notable conservative owned papers.

      • Perhaps all by publishings (is that a word, really?) that have the same motives, ideology and making money off of hating queers agenda, perhaps. But reviewed in a truly critical, scientific and theologically astute way, mmmm, I’m thinking, not so much.

      • Dana Stinson

        I have a feeling you don’t understand what peer reviewed means.

        • Kim Hudlet

          I have a feeling you don’t understand what Rebeccca was saying…….

      • Barbi

        Proof for your assertions, Rebecca?

      • pand ne mo nium

        The fact that you said the study failed every time it was peer reviewed means that it did not fail every time as we all know that the truth is ALWAYS THE OPPOSITE TO WHAT HOMOSEXUALS CLAIM.

    • pand ne mo nium

      The fact that you said McHugh is a highly biased researcher means that he is not a highly biased researcher. As we all know the truth is ALWAYS the opposite of what the homosexuals claim.

  • Sandra Dudley

    It is impossible for a person to be other than what they are born as, a boy born as a boy is a boy in a boy’s body. Someone from the trans-gender community once told me that 50% of trans-genders commit suicide saying that is was because of a lack of acceptance by society. I think it is more because they can’t keep deceiving themselves. Wanting to be something you are not doesn’t make it true. I can want to be a cat and even have surgery to make look similar to a cat but that won’t change the fact that I am human. Even after a “sex change” they sooner or later realize they still are not the gender they want to be. They are just a mutilated man or a mutilated woman and the realization often leads them to greater depression even to the point of being suicidal. Supporting someone’s delusion doesn’t help them, it hurts them.

    • Michael Davis

      So basically your uneducated (divinity degree, lol) hillbilly preacher has told you pretty much every the opposite of the scientific and sociological consensus. Congratulations on being 180 degree ass-backwards.

      • Kim Hudlet

        I don’t think anyone here has claimed to have a divinity degree and hillbilly pastors usually don’t have more than a GED, if that.

    • Rhonda

      So what is a hermaphrodite?

      • CL

        Greetings Rhonda, A person whose body did not form like others… something they must learn to live with… but instead of a leg, or arms, or fingers, or toes, it happens to be their sexual anatomy… this is their ‘cross to bear’. We are all given our crosses to bear in this life. We can choose our own will, or we can seek the will of the One who created.

        • Kim Hudlet

          Your argument is that of a Christian Scientist. We can assume that you do not believe in any kind of medication or surgery to correct physical illness, as any failing of the body is God’s will and ones cross to bare.

          • CL

            Some things can be fixed. Some things can’t. Some must be accepted and lived with.

          • Rhonda

            And just where in the bible does it say that a person’s genitals determine their gender? We know scientifically that is not true now. Gender is in the brain, hormones and genitals. Why can’t you understand that sometimes the brain does not fit the genitals or an excess or depletion of hormones in the womb can change a person’s sexuality? It is not rocket science

          • Barbi

            Rhonda, the bible says in Genesis and Jesus repeats it –that we are made male and female –in the Image of God –the female made for the man –so that they could “become one flesh” (Intimate) and “be fruitful and multiply.” It was understood that the male had the penis because he was the one who got circumcised. Gender is what your chromosomes say you are –and the hormones and the body will pretty much follow the DNA code –every cell of your body identifies you as male or female –and a specific unique male or female –Your hormones will act accordingly –your body will be male or female and that is what you are. To say gender is in the brain, yes, it is. But that doesn’t mean that delusions in your head determine your gender. Some mental patients think they are fat when they are skeletal from self-abuse. Some want to cut themselves to feel something. Some think they are being followed by mysterious people (one of my friends thought that without meds) Some think they are Abe Lincoln or Jesus or cats. Some men think they are women and some women think they are men. Some who think that way don’t trans-gender –but identify as the opposite gender in their sexual preference –and act like the opposite gender. (Many homosexuals.) they deserve compassion; their conditions should be researched; and we should do all we can to prevent the condition in children and youth –and ourselves.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Barbi girl, this is not a Barbi world, and you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about regarding mental illness and transgender. You also don’t seem to have a grasp on the difference between sexual orientation and gender identity. There are many variations in genetic coding and a certain percentage of animals, human and otherwise, have genetic coding for sexual orientation other than heterosexual. That’s actual science and if you read some journals from that last 40 years and then have someone help you understand what you are reading, you’ll have a better chance of not saying things like this anymore and embarrassing yourself. Regarding transgender, you also have significant misunderstanding of how sexual differentiation takes place and at what various stages different genes are turned on and off, different endocrine systems are turned on and off, etc. Sexual differentiation takes place at different times in the brain than in the body. Again, not delusion, science.

          • Barbi

            No, Kim, I’m just not politically correct. Sorry. But in the end, I will be proven to have been on the reality side on this issue.

          • Kim Hudlet

            This has nothing to do with PC. You keep believing that you know what the he** you are talking about and the rest of us will keep ministering to the vulnerable that you and your ilk seem intent on destroying. I have no problem waiting until God’s judgement takes place. I am so very thankful that I will not be standing in your arrogant, ignorant, bigoted shoes when that happens,

          • Kim Hudlet

            Good grief, Barbie (get a grown up name, would you?) You don’t even understand the scripture you are proof texting! The Bible says God made Adam and Eve male and female….not all of humankind. “Some who think that way don’t trans-gender –but identify as the opposite gender in their sexual preference –and act like the opposite gender. ” WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??! That is completely nonsensical! Please stop talking about mental illness that you have no clue about, it’s embarrassing!!
            This is my favorite nonsensical statement: “It was understood that the male had the penis because he was the one who got circumcised.” There isn’t a pill to fix stupid, but the more you post, the more it seems you should talk to a physician about Namenda or Exelon. One of those might be helpful for what seems to be going on with you here.

          • Barbi

            It’s not nonsensical. Listen again. Some people think they are men and some thing they are women –when they are not biologically what they think they are. Some of these try to BE the opposite gender , with dress, mannerisms, speech, and ultimately hormones and surgeries. (Transgenders.) SOME males think like women in being attracted to men –and they act and talk femmy (as transfemales do) but they aren’t trying to BE women –but to be with men as women would. And the same for lesbians –not going as far as a transmale but still wanting to be WITH women as if they were males. All delusions. Just as anorexics are delusional –seeing themselves as they are not and acting accordingly.

          • pand ne mo nium

            We should ask you WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? What God did in Genesis Jesus confirmed in the gospels. In between nothing had changed.

            But…I do realise as your world view is anti God, you could not comprehend such a concept that God would not change his mind as the homosexual agenda changes its mind all the time to accommodate their latest perversion.

            Anyone with half a brain in their head can see that the homosexuals are trying to reinvent society in their own image so that they can have perverted sex on tap without sanction, so your rallying cry for the perverted and obscene is to be expected.

            You have not discovered yet that there are cultural warriors who have put on the whole armour of God and are prepared to withstand the day of the evil one and will oppose him at every turn.

            We fully understand that you are prepared to do satan’s bidding, that is why you are nothing more than a feather duster as satan is no match for the power of God.

            All your ranting and raving and trying to get your lies accepted as truth are only target practice for us as those who know the truth are set free so satan’s power has no hold over us as Jesus said you will know the truth, so that is why we can see through all your lies.

            Especially as it says that the foolishness of God is greater than the wisdom of men. Therefore I would rather be a fool for Christ’s sake than a liar for satan’s purpose as I have learnt that satan doesn’t give a damn about those that follow him so he will destroy you if it suits his purpose.

            So, the short answer is you lose big time.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Romans 1:22 Claiming to be wise, the instead showed the les to be utter fools. Pandemonium, it’s obvious by your screen name you are I great deal of turnoil. God is using your hateful words and attitude for the greater good because each time you post, we have the opportunity to show the hundreds of people who read this thar God is one of love, and that your hateful rhetoric is of Satan. Thank you for that opportunity and know that hundress of us are praying for you.

          • Kim Hudlet

            And the Bible prohibits surgically correcting medical issues such as hermaphroditism, cleft palettes, club foots, etc,. exactly where? Could you cite those passages?

          • Barbi

            No, the Bible doesn’t prohibit helping birth defects at all. However, what we do in promoting transgenders is endorse mutilation and sterilization and a lifetime of risky hormone treatments. If people are born with abnormal chromosomes like the XXY’s and abnormal genitalia, we DO and SHOULD try to help them in every way to live normally. Most XXY’s don’t know they have the genetic problem and are raised as boys–they are sterile and finding out why leads to discovery of the XXY condition. LGT’s are not typically “inter-sexed,” but hormonally, genetically normal with normal genitalia. They often manage to function sexually enough to make children with the opposite sex –which is by God’s design. But somewhere, they get into the same-gender fixation and orgasmic activities and sex addiction when they are very immature — in youth. It’s not a gay life and we should do all we can to teach and protect to prevent LGT conditions in children.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Wow you did not see any of that non-sense in a scientific journal, at least not from this century or the last. You also don’t seem to understand a lot of what you are reading. “Same gender-fixation and orgasmic activities?” Where in the world did you get that little “theory?

          • Kim Hudlet

            Why do you erase the B in LGBTQI? You cannot teach and protect to prevent “LGT” conditions in children they are born with it, as are animals throoughout the animal kingdom. Trying to “teach and protect to prevent” is blatant abuse of children. You do know this is the 21st century?

          • Barbi

            O my, Kim! Scares me to think you are mental health worker. I sure do know it is the 21st century –quite possibly the last one if we blow up like a tinder box. You teach a child that he is boy or girl by how you think of him, treat him, guide him. I’ve heard women run down men in front of their boys –and run down their fathers. I’ve seen women baby their little boys like Little Lord Faunleroys for too long –and sissify them. I know a father who doted on his daughter –and disrespected his wife with chronic verbal scorn –while praising the daughter as being like him. She had a very feminine beginning and turned out lesbian. Partly because she just never got a boyfriend and went to a college as an art major where they were pushing feminism and she had an adventuresome girlfriend and together they became a lesbian couple –her first of 3 that i knew of. I never thought she was intrinsically lesbian–she admired my husband for one thing –and commented on where one could find such a man.

          • Kim Hudlet

            You are terrifying, I’m assuming you live in the South, since most people outside of that geographical region have moved out of the 1800s and recognize the world is not flat.

          • Kim Hudlet

            I’ll bet it does scare you…..people are often scared by anything outside of their narrow world view. All of the anecdotal evidence you offer is irrelevant. You have known what? 2 or 3 LGBTI people? I actually have an education and can provide 30 years of examples of people I have had to help through the trauma people like you have inflicted. I didn’t initially intend to go into counseling, but was willing to follow God’s calling.

          • pand ne mo nium

            I would agree as you seem very, very scared of anything outside of your world view. And I have an education (3 university degrees and 1 theological degree) that has given me enough insight into the lies of homosexuals and enabled me to give the help they need to conquer an unwanted same sex attraction through the power of the blood of Jesus shed on Calvary.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Wait, are you, Barbi, saying that LGBTQI people are suffering from “sex addiction?”

          • Kim Hudlet

            And you base that ancient opinion on your graduate degree in……?

          • pand ne mo nium

            As you claim it is an ancient opinion, that must mean that it is not an ancient opinion as the truth is ALWAYS the opposite to what you claim.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Right…….another “I’m rubber, you’re glue” response. Do have anything of substance to say?

          • Barbi

            I don’t think CL is suggesting he is a Christian Scientist by religion. However, my husband IS a Christian–and a scientist. Doctors try to fix birth defects. We ought not be helping to develop delusions or gender dysphoria, (which leads to the LGT identities, and promiscuous activites and all the STD risks for the gays (males and transgenders.)

          • Kim Hudlet

            And I would appreciate you citing the FACTUAL scientific basis for the statements. I am a Christian and a mental health provider and will gladly provide citations for studies I reference. My spouse is an IT specialist, and will never claim that I know anything more than the average citizen about computers because I didn’t do the time to get the grad degree in IT. There is no delusional process in gender dysphoria or sexual orientation. The difference between you and I is that I have graduate degrees in the field and a license that allows me to make mental health diagnoses and actually know what Gender Dysphoria and the DSM 5 is…you have none. I don’t know what your husband;s specialty is, but unless it’s Psychiatry, neither does he.

          • Barbi

            He is family practice –and rotated with psychiatrists –who also viewed homosexuality as mental illness –or as willful, sexual self-indulgence. The gays who are effeminate and lesbians who are masculine have gender dysphoria for sure –and given more acceptance for transgenders in the culture might think that’s what they are. You have bought a lot of the psycho-babble hooey in your specialty, IMO.

            You say you are a Christian but you are in disagreement with the God and Christ of the Bible about the nature of male and female and their purpose –and God’s design plan for gender.

            Tell me, how an anorexic is delusional who looks in the mirror and sees herself as fat at 87 pounds –and a man who thinks he is a woman –is not? I wouldn’t call normal-behaving homosexuals all mentally ill –but sex addicted at least. I know homosexual people –and they are deluded if they think they are born to be homosexual –they are deluded if they think God doesn’t mind. They are deluded if they think they have no choice. How many were inducted by older homosexuals –once innocent and inexperienced –and then drawn into activities by people not so innocent and inexperienced? Or how many were damaged by life experience –finding they identified with mother against a hard-to-love father? I know two such gay men who were not affirmed in masculinity by their straight fathers.

          • CL

            Isn’t it scary to know that people like this are actually ‘counseling’ others?

          • CL

            I agree, she has bought into all the mumbo-jumbo, whatever pleases you, psycho-babble. Has bought the deceptions.

            22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools

            12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

          • pand ne mo nium

            Saying that there is no delusional process in gender dysphoria or sexual orientation must mean there is as the truth is ALWAYS the opposite to what you claim.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Uh huh……can’t you can’t up with anything better than childish nonsense? Cant even have a rational conversation…..

          • pand ne mo nium

            You say you are a Christian so that must mean you are not a Christian as the truth is ALWAYS the opposite to what you claim.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Thank you, new words for”I know you are, but what am I!” You are a true Trump follower. The Donald would be so Narcissistically proud!

          • Kim Hudlet

            “We ought not be helping to develop delusions or gender dysphoria, (which leads to the LGT identities, and promiscuous activites and all the STD risks for the gays (males and transgenders.)” Wow….just, wow. Would you put our husband on, please? He’ll either cringe in horror at this BS or prove that he’s not a physician. There really isn’t any other option. If He is too embarrassed by what you have written, do you have a teenager that has some common sense and can provide some coherent explanation about this disorder you exhibit.

          • Barbi

            He agrees 100 per cent with me. The issue makes him angry at the falsehoods promoted by the Left and the GLT activists and apologists . He is an MD. Our kids are grown –and straight, because we knew how to cultivate faith and heterosexual identity in our children. We saw this trend coming for decades and have studied it plenty. It’s not the only cultural sin –porn is huge. Sex trafficking is –and rape cultures in Africa –like in the Congo currently (just read an article on that.) We need people to get back to respect for God’s creation design of hetero marriage and fidelity as the foundation of family –and with it, mental, physical and financial health. And church as the stabilizer and benefit for communities.

          • Kim Hudlet

            You are truly psychotic…….you really believe that your children are straight because you MADE them that way?? Arrogant much?? Porn has nothing to do with LGBTQI people,,, what are you talking about?!

          • pand ne mo nium

            That must mean that porn has everything to do with homosexuals. As we know the truth is always the opposite to what you say.

            I had a young man who was a homo stay with us for two months and every night he had to have his porn fix before he went to bed.

        • CL

          We can choose our own will, or we can seek the will of the One who created.

    • Dana Stinson

      Keep believing these things. You’ll be passed by sooner or later.

      • pand ne mo nium

        Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z

    • Kim Hudlet

      And you base this on what? Clearly not scientific evidence……..not the 100s of thousands of medical and psychological experts who have spent years studying, researching, working with transgender and intersex people…..
      certainly not on your own experience…..I give up. Rush Limbaugh? Brian Fisher? Family Research Council President Tony Perkins? Pastor Ken Adkins? And PLEASE tell me about your graduate education and license that qualifies you to determine what constitutes a delusion and mental illness.

      • Barbi

        My husband has the MD and he would tell you, like D. Mc Hugh and Mayer –that you can’t change your sex. You are what you are. There are very very few inter-sexed people and they deserve accommodation to help them live as male or female. LGT’s are not typically inter-sexed. They were failed in their formative years –OR influenced by peers, molesters, media, educators –today’s confused and confusing culture. No one should be suggesting that kids just might be in the wrong body. I listened to mothers on an Oprah forum tell how their 2 year old boys wanted to put scrunchies in towels on their heads to simulate being girls –or try on mom’s shoes, purse, make-up –and preferred the pink crayola. HOW STUPID! If that’s the kind of mothering going on, no wonder the boy thinks he might be a girl –or prefer to be a girl. We have to teach our kids their gender and how wonderful it is to be just the way God made them –male or female. Intersexed have a defect–the rest of the LGT’s have a problem between the ears –and it is developmental AFTER the womb.

        • Kim Hudlet

          I won’t criticize your husband as in league with a debunked and shamed psychiatrist, because he’s not here, spouting off about psychiatry in this forum, his non-medical, uneducated wife is,

          • Barbi

            There you go again, Kim –making me the issue –instead of the issue. Always the default response by the Libs. Ad hominem attack it is called. Well, there are MANY writings and studies on the issue. Psychologist Tim La Haye (who recently died) was old school –with many gay patients –who let him inquire and observe the roots of their gender dysphoria leading to homosexual self-image. His book, The Unhappy Gays. told of boys whose fathers were absent –or belittling –one told his kid to “go in the house and help your mother –you’re no good out here (with him in the garage.” Even Dr. Phil always says the most important role model to a kid is his same gender parent. Too many today don’t have that parent.

            I know a tv producer who is gay–and partnered –whose father left the family at what is a critical age of pubescence –around age 12 –and he got into relations with neighbor men. He also reportedly molested a younger teen when he was about 18 in a church rest room–and the boy told another when he grew up. It messed him up for awhile. This is the lifestyle that spreads like a cancer to those who are vulnerable and needy for same gender belonging and affection –and they are taken advantage of sexually–and then do it to others. It’s a deeply depraved condition..

            We are seeing the gaying of America –because we PUSHING it with media and pride parades and benighted sex educators. Shame on us. It’s wrong –and some day you will know it.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Not making you the issue Barbi Doll, So sorry that you think everything is about you, as that makes life very difficult. Uhhhhm…I’m sorry to tell you that you are not the center of the discussion in this article. All I can say is the same thing I think each time I read one of your posts…….Wow,,,,,just, wow.

          • pand ne mo nium

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        • Kim Hudlet

          Cite your scientific references. I can cite hundreds to the contrary.

        • Kim Hudlet

          I can’t continue this conversation, we have a major pipe leak. I’m going to call my plumber’s wife. I’m sure she’s seen the tools he carries in his van….

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        • pand ne mo nium

          The American College of Paediatricians issued a position statement last month entitled “Gender Ideology Harms Children,” which will be followed by a peer-reviewed statement on the subject that’s expected to be released by summer, the college said. “The American College of Paediatricians urges educators and legislators to reject all policies that condition children to accept as normal a life of chemical and surgical impersonation of the opposite sex,” the statement stated. “Facts—not ideology—determine reality.” The statement— co-written by the President, Vice President and Paediatric Endocrinologist of the American College of Paediatricians and a Professor of psychiatry, cites eight reasons why “gender ideology” instead of treatment based on biological facts is harmful to children.

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  • Tyler S. Jewell

    Claiming any evidence or arguments are illegitimate because of their source is a genetic fallacy. Especially when the alternative research recommended is one that legitimizes the opposing narrative. You can’t just say, “it’s wrong because it’s from a conservative/christian/liberal/etc…it needs to come from the people I like to listen to!” Instead, deconstruct the premises of the arguments with data and facts…not with ad hominems and question begging.

    “The understanding of sexual orientation as an innate, biologically fixed property of human beings — the idea that people are ‘born that way’ — is not supported by scientific evidence.”
    It seems to me that it wouldn’t do the LGBT peeps any favors to have researchers discover any sort of bio-chemical/genetic connection with homosexuality since such as a gene or condition would be one that natural selection would weed out. At least that’s the conclusion I think any secular/naturalist would have come to on the matter.

  • MJ

    As a transwoman myself, a Christian conservative transwoman, I’m amazed at how much misinformation is out there regarding this topic. This article by Mr Barber continues the high amount of misinfo.

    That study isn’t a “study”. It’s a theory, that’s failed. That failure is proof by myself and hundreds of thousands of others in this country alone can testify against this theory. We are living, breathing, and living vastly better lives.

    I’m amazed at how people cling to false beliefs and theories, label it as fact, then complain that trans people exist for real. Even after you tell your entire story to them…be open to them…insist we’re just all filled with trauma that needs to be healed.

    Nope.

    And Dr Paul McHugh has been disowned by the AMA, so has his entire gender department at John Hopkins U. Zero credibility remains with him and those in his NARTH-backed, faux-front group the oft-quoted ACP by many blog sites.

    I offer true compassion and love, in Jesus’ name, the results just don’t look like you expect. After all God is the creator, not us. It’s not an agenda, it’s people. His people.

    • CL

      “I’m amazed at how people cling to false beliefs and theories, label it as fact”

      Me too, but not in the way that you mean.
      Yes God is the Creator, and humans are messing with His creation in order to suit themselves, to satisfy their own minds, rather than submitting to His will.
      Changing your sex is not a thing that comes from the Creator.
      I do not mean that in any harsh way. I wish you only peace.

      • Rebecca Monti

        Sorry to burst your bubble here, but there is no creator. Never was and never will be. Once you accept that you might just be able to start discerning reality from fiction.

        • CL

          Greetings Rebecca, I respect your belief, but can you explain to me then, where you believe the universe came from, why is it here, if it is even here, and what purpose is there to any of it?

          • Paul

            Does there need to be a purpose for the universe? Do we need to believe in a source of the universe? Why can’t we work towards finding the answers before jumping to a conclusion

          • CL

            Hi Paul, I think so. Otherwise what are we? We are nothing.

        • Heidi Smith

          To assume no creator is illogical and unreasonable. Atheism is a faith in its own right, and one that is difficult to defend. One need not hold to a Judeo-Christian version of creation in order to logically conclude that there had to be a beginning–even as science becomes increasingly sophisticated, it continues to point to a starting point (and therefore some sort of a starting entity) of the universe.

          • pand ne mo nium

            Logical Heidi, but then God deniers have never been known for their logic.

          • Heidi Smith

            Neither extreme is known for logic–neither the deniers nor those who try to posit Scripture as some kind of absolute rule book instead of what it is–an amazing story of humanity’s relationship with an amazing God. On one hand, the God deniers go out of their way to “proof-text” seeming inconsistencies in Scripture–on the other hand, the small-minded literalists find their favorite passages and harp on them ad nauseum. Take your pick.

            Meanwhile, the message that God created the universe, that the creation has been given choice and has made wrong choices resulting in a broken relationship with God (not just humanity) and that we live in a broken world are basic to Scripture–and also reasonable conclusions as we look around us in our imperfect life in this world. We see all sorts of situations where it is clear that that is not how God would have ideally wanted us to be–issues with sexuality are a mere speck in that ocean. So why do we single out sexuality with such angst and energy, and persecute those who are “different” instead of trying to understand and accommodate? The flip side of that is why does the other extreme laud homosexuality as something to be celebrated? Both extremes need to take a step back and take a deep breath, and simply look at it as one more anomaly to try to understand and accommodate, just like so many others.

        • pand ne mo nium

          Sorry Rebecca but you saying there is no creator means that there is a creator because everyone who claims there is no creator as yet has not provided a single scrap of evidence for their claim. Care to try?

          (two years later still waiting).

      • Kim Hudlet

        I would encourage you to crack a book, since no one has an issue with messing with “God’s creation” when it comes in the form of a cleft pallete, a nonfunctional pancreas or kidneys, holes in hearts, or any of a number of other congenital defects that we have learned through science to correct when something, through no fault of the fetus, goes wrong in utero. Decades of scientific study has shown that in the multiple stages that a fetus goes through in which gender differentiation occurs in the body and other times when it occurs in the fetal brain, anomalies occur in a certain percentage of births. It has from the beginning of time. It will continue, even if you kill off all the trans gender in a generation. That’s just science. If you think God gets angry when we surgically fix a hole in a babies heart because it didn’t finish forming, then stick with your arguement, it makes complete sense. The nonsense in this article is just that: nonsense. What Paul McHugh is well known for is twisting study conclusions, claiming the results means exactly the opposite of what the study authors concluded. See the interview with the authors of the 2011 Sweedish study noted above. He’s a pariah in the scientific comminty, not well renowned. Have you read the studies? I have. McHugh just flat out lies about the results.

        • Heidi Smith

          Kim, while I do think the article had at least some good information in it, you are absolutely right that homosexuality and transgenderism are traits which simply “are,” just as other traits which vary from the norm as you mentioned. We live in an “imperfect” world in a theological sense (not to be taken as a “right” and “wrong” sort of statement, but merely as a statement of fact, which is why I put it in quotations) and that IS Scriptural! The Scriptural passages which condemn homosexuality (with the exception of levitical law, which is akin to sharia law, and which is what Christ came to free us from) are aimed at BEHAVIOR in people who are not homosexual, if one reads them through the lens of any sort of rationality–and indeed, using sex as a means of subjugation (as the people of Sodom suggest they want to do with Lot’s visitors) is a terrible thing regardless of what gender is doing what to whom, as is the sort of dilettante “let’s-just-try-anything-that-feels-good” promiscuity which the Apostle Paul describes in Romans. I agree with you that we do need to view homosexual orientation, transgenderism, etc. are traits which simply happen, and we need to make accommodation for those affected, just as we do for people who are born with other anomalies. I’ve tried for years to help people view sexuality in this vein.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Thank you. It’s so nice to meet Pastor’s willing to tale a rational and contextual approach to scripture.

          • Kim Hudlet

            pastors

          • Barbi

            Heidi, ST. Paul couldn’t be more clear in Romans 1 –that homosexuality is a consequence of idolatry, i.e. worship of creature more than Creator –and exchanging the truth about God for a lie. Clearly that’s what we see in homosexual lifestyle. “I’m going to do what I want regardless of the Bible, the Church of believers, –and what God says. Jesus Himself said that we know from scripture that we are male and female from CREATION, and “for this reason” He says, man is to leave parents and cleave to his wife. Genesis is very clear that the woman is designed to complete the male –to be his “helpmeet suitable.” Because God saw that “It was not good for man to be alone.” Intimacy and procreation belong to the man with his wife –and no other combination.

          • MJ

            “ST. Paul couldn’t be more clear in Romans 1 –that homosexuality is a consequence of idolatry”

            The word homosexual didn’t appear in the bible until 1946. In Rome and Corinth, it was usual fare for men to have sex partners of young boys. It was rare that boys escaped puberty without being accosted/raped by older men. The men’s wives were just property back then, not a love thing like we have in this country.

            Paul was speaking to the heinous act of men having sex with boys, not gay people.

            Now that I made this more clear for you, homosexuality in our modern parlance is not the consequence of idolatry like you allege. Having sex with young boys in a culture that permits this sort of behavior and worships at pagan altars that applauds having sex with barely-pubescent men, then yes.

            But being gay/homosexual has zero to do with the context you eluded to in your quote that started this message.

          • Barbi

            uh, MJ –I know. NOt even in the scripture I cite is the word “homosexual.” FYI, here is the scripture and the description is clearly about homosexual practice. It’s not about pedophilia , per se –contrary to your assertion.

            romans 1: 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In
            the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and
            were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts
            with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their
            error.

          • Kim Hudlet

            uh, Barbi (still cringe every time I type that, PLEASE choose a big girl screen name!), No, that scripture is not “clearly about homosexual practice.” PLEASE read something besides the unedumacated opinions that you seem to be stucK on.. There are so many biblical scholars out there that can simplify this so that you can understand. Are you How about opening your mind and praying for enlightenment. In fact, I DARE you!

          • pand ne mo nium

            Thankyou for confirming that the scripture used is clearly about homosexual practice. I am learning so much from you, reading the opposite to the truth which you spread all the time.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Gee whiz, Beaver, another “I know you are, but what am I?” Your such a clever little girl.

          • MJ

            when out of context as you say in the English versions and western understanding of the cultures of that day, it is indeed out of context. It’s created a culture war her in the USA. Falsely so.

          • pand ne mo nium

            The cultural war was created by the cultural marxists who are trying to reinvent society in their perverted and distorted image. They are so unhappy with thier own lives they have to hit back and make as many people as they can to be as miserable as they are.

            Of course Satan who is behind it all always oversteps the mark when he gets the bit between his teeth so I look forward to the day when that happens and all his lies are exposed and laid bare.

          • pand ne mo nium

            That must mean then that being homosexual has everything to do with the context spoken of as the truth is always the opposite of what the homosexual promoters say.

          • CL

            accommodation is exactly what the deceiver, the enemy of the Creator, wants…. in order that the creation will be destroyed. Anything that goes against the design of the Creator will destroy the creation.
            People need to break free of the deception, the delusions they have allowed in to their thinking.

          • pand ne mo nium

            Thank you Heidi that you have confirmed the truth that a homosexual orientation and transgenderism are not traits that just happen.

          • Heidi Smith

            Depends on what you mean by “just happen.” Given that homosexuality occurs in nature, and that there seems to be a genetic link, one could surmise that it “just happens” in the sense that it does show up naturally. (I can’t speak for transgenderism–but given the similarities, I suspect it is related as well.) So while some can be drawn into a homosexual “lifestyle” erroneously through adverse environmental experiences, others truly have no choice, because they really are “born that way.” People need to get off their extreme notions of seeing homosexuality in black-and-white terms and realize that it is complex and multifaceted–and as Kim pointed out, it is a continuum.

      • MJ

        Replying to this comment “Yes God is the Creator, and humans are messing with His creation in order to suit themselves, to satisfy their own minds, rather than submitting to His will.
        Changing your sex is not a thing that comes from the Creator.”

        Using that logic…
        We shouldn’t fix babies born with clef palletes, that comes from the Creator so we ought not make a change.
        We shouldn’t make polio vaccines because polio is part of God’s plan, that comes from the Creator so we ought not make a change.
        We shouldn’t use antibiotics to cure people of their ailments, disease and virues…those come from the Creator so we ought not make a change.
        We shouldn’t dam waterways because rivers come from the Creator so we ought not make a change.

        Only what YOU deem as Creator-made is not fixable. Essentially you are making YOURSELF the Creator by claiming one cannot/ought not change what needs to be changed.

        • CL

          Greetings MJ,
          I won’t argue with your logic. You are probably correct in all that you say.
          As I’ve said, we still have the choice whether we accept the will of God, or deny God and pursue our own ways. I just say, choose carefully.
          We also make ourselves the Creator when we choose to change the way that we were made, rather than seeking God’s will.
          Wishing you peace and blessings.

          • MJ

            I’ve accepted the will of God, I didn’t deny nor pursue my own ways, like you allege.

            I never “chose” this, so there is not “choice” to “choose carefully. This shows you don’t understand the transgender experience at all.

            With that, I wish you peace and blessings as well.

    • Candice H. Brown Elliott

      Strictly speaking, it’s NOT a “theory” in the scienctific sense… it isn’t even a hypothesis… it’s propoganda.

    • Michael Davis

      Christian, conservative, trans. ::head explodes:: I mean, could you support any more people who hate you and literally want to see you dead, and are encouraging others to help you along with that?

      • CL

        Wow Michael, What world do you live in?
        ‘people that hate and want to see dead’? I hardly think so. 🙁

        • Kim Hudlet

          Really? You obviously have the Internet. What world do you live in? Texas minister Donnie Romero of Stedfast Baptist Church in Fort Worth, Sacramento Baptist preacher Roger Jimenez offered up praise for the Orlando killer and urged more killings of LGBT people, Pastor Ken Adkins who said the gay victims of the terrorist attack got “what they deserved” is currently in police custody for molesting children, Brainerd Baptist Church Senior Pastor Robby Gallaty, Gays Are Possessed By ‘Putrid-Smelling’ Demons That Pigs Would Reject, Bert Farias Claims, Colorado Pastor Kevin Swanson, Jeffrey S. Smith, Florida Pastor, Equates Gays With Serial Killers, Rapists And Child Molesters, Westboro Baptist Church…..I don’t need to go on, you have internet. LGBTQI you are constantly bombarded with these messages at home and in the media; it makes the bullies at school look like amateurs.

          • Barbi

            Bible believers know they are not supposed to hate or wish death to sinners –and your mention of these preachers is news to me. Someone wants YOU to hate people who don’t affirm LGT condition by listing these preachers –the Westboro Baptist church is the only one I knew which took the hate stance. But homosexual sodomy itself –is a despicable practice that no one should even think about, much less start. Our culture has sanitized what is really a repugnant practice with high risk for STD transmission and misery.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Please tell me what the LGT is about?

          • Barbi

            The sensible abbreviation as these are the people who think they have no choice –the questioning and whatever all the others are –the bisexuals –they can all choose to marry only one of opposite gender –and manage to find themselves attracted –never mind that they think they could’ve gone either way or both.

            Bisexuals are just looking for a warm body –and are non-discriminating about it. So they have a choice to choose right and find fulfillment — that’s not some in-born assignment they have to fulfill by sleeping on both sides of the bed.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Thank God, Barbie girl! Lesbians are in the clear!

          • Barbi

            Lesbians are sinning but probably have less STD and damage risk –probably less prone to rampant promiscuity — than gays –but their grown children as adults will show the effects of lacking a real father –and having a female substitute posing as a father. I know two gays raising a daughter they adopted as an infant and she’s very macho. They did her no favors, adopting her instead of a hetero couple doing so. It is wrong and misleading and harmful to all the children who have this role modeled for them.

            Besides we need men and women to find each other and make children in secure marriages –instead of turning to each other of the same gender. The Muslims will out birth us and vote in Sharia Law.

          • Kim Hudlet

            You are mistaken (again). I don’t hate people who don’t affirm LGBTQI people. You are mistaken if you think LGBTQI people care what you think.. I will continue to call out those who claim to be Christians, yet misuse scripture to push their own agenda. Jesus was clear in his commission. When people like you stop misusing scripture to maintain slavery, segregation, and discrimination, against those he called us to love and lift up, I trust God will let me rest.

          • pand ne mo nium

            If you don’t care what we think, why are you here doing everything you can to change what we think? Double speak anyone?

          • Kim Hudlet

            Ahh, Pande, you have some reading comprehension issues. I apologize. I thought you were just a troll who can’t come up with a grown up response. As I have said multiple times in this post, I have no interest in changing narrow minds. I am just appreciating the opportunity you present to educate all the people who read this without commenting with some facts and spiritual truth. You make it painfully clear to all that you have deep seated issues with LGBT people. As I have said on many occasions, I would be happy to refer you to a therapist who can help you with that. God sends people to speak the truth in the midst of hateful and deceitful places like this. Most of the Old testament prophets and Jesus himself can attest to that. God sends some of us to speak in truth and love to those hurting here who have been beat up by bigots professing to be Christians. Don’t worry, we pray for you bigots, too. I understand that you are too embarrassed to post with any identifying info, but God knows who you are and I believe that God can open even your heart if you are willing. Out prayer group is praying for you specifically. You are a daughter of God like anyone else here,

          • Barbi

            Why are you here then? If LGT’s don’t care what I think, why do you? I and others write on this subject because we believe Jesus, the Savior. Children are taught their gender and to be glad about it or not –to appreciate the role of the opposite gender –or not. We do children a disservice to enable them to ponder the sin of marrying their same sex best friend –to not steer them toward a proper self-image and ideas for their future happiness–to not tell them about their Heavenly Father and cultivate a desire for HIS definition of righteousness in their hearts. We teach them what is right and wrong. And the Word of God is the source for the Christian. You are RIGHT that JEsus was clear in His Commission —

            Matt 19: 4 “Haven’t you read,” he [Jesus] replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’[b]? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

            St Paul told the Romans 1: 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and
            were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts
            with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their
            error.

            Explain it away if you can, Christian Kim. Your argument is not with me and Pand ne mo nium –it is with Your Maker Himself.

          • pand ne mo nium

            That is right Barbi. They are flooding the ether so much I have never heard of them either. Definitely small fry in the scheme of things. Just like the people here who are trying to give the impression they are experts on all things homosexual so if you say differently then you are wrong. They are small fry in the scheme of things and so tiresomely boring.

      • MJ

        Michael, conservatism isn’t what it used to be. Today’s conservatism demands conformity to it’s rules. Yesteryear’s conservatism, looks a lot more like Reagan conservatism…the one I believe in…balanced budgets, low or no debt, small government, true freedom of religion (not the Kim Davis “freedom” of religion nonsense).

        The GOP has lost conservatives since the end of the Clinton era, from there the gov’t has gotten larger, the debt skyrocketed and demands to conform to the theories the insist upon (Dr McHugh is a great example here) is what conservatism means these days. It’s sad that modern conservatives aren’t even conservative.

        I’m a Reagan conservative, which today means a mix of Conservative principles as I outlined above, and libertarian. Conservatarian is a good word. Probably a better word.

      • Barbi

        No Christian conservative is wishing death on anyone or hating LGT’s—unlike Muslims who are the pet religious group of libs today. (Go figure!) TEACHING our culture that homosexuality and gender dysphoria are not inborn but developmental is important. Teaching that it is not good for people is also important. Teaching the Bible on the topic is also important.

        • pand ne mo nium

          Of course Barbi but when you hate the truth, the truth is hate to you so you will admit that you are lying through your teeth to avoid having to admit to the truth..

    • Barbi

      MJ, how is the CDC study of the high school boys not a study? How is the study of suicide for married LGT’s and T’s after their surgeries not a study? How is a study showing gender fluidity in the self-image, self-identification of people not a study?

      • Kim Hudlet

        They are not studies when you cannot cite the source so that we can all read them and see how badly McHugh has misrepresented them this time, as well as his suggestion of correlation implying causation.

        • Barbi

          I stated FACTS about Hamer’s research being denounced –and about the survey of high school males –which McHuge also cited. I have that medical journal report right in front of me –hard copy addressed to my MD husband. I also recall that Johns Hopkins STOPPED DOING THE trans-surgery years ago –I think they pioneered in that area –and stopped because the surgery didn’t “fix” them –didn’t make them happy and didn’t really change their sex as hoped.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Sorry, I have surgery this morning. Don’t want to wait for the the surgeon, so her husband is going to get a babysitter and come on down to the hospital and do it. He’s read some of his wife’s journals about gynecology, so I’m counting on his understanding of her journals to correctly diagnose and treat my endometriosis. I’m going to go ahead and let him do do the surgery, too. Turns out it’s cheaper. I’m sure he can do it since he’s had training as a plumber, right?

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          • Barbi

            I guess you’re kidding about having surgery –and having endometriosis? I know a bit about that myself. Hope you were just making your point that I couldn’t possibly understand a medical journal –being a lowly woman with only a bachelor’s degree. Men are so much smarter than we, don’t you think, Kim? And psychologists and counselors are just the smartest people ever –as long as they just KNOW that GLT’s are BORN to be GLT. They are so smart –even when there is no evidence to back up that theory of “born that way.” A part from the fact that –as Rosaria Butterfield says, “We are ALL born that way –born with a sin nature.” And that’s what the sexual perversions are.

          • Kim Hudlet

            They followed a very flawed McHugh and have been denounced by the the APA as a result. Holy crap Barbi!! You have never met transgender people have you? You are sitting at home, filing your nails, looking at your make believe husband across the room, imagining that you have something to say, beyond an uneducated opinion! We would have a great deal more respect for you if you simply say ” don’t have no education and I’ve never actually been around LGBTQI people but this is what I think in all my uneducated glory…..”

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            By the way. The APA denounces anyone who opposes the homosexual line as the APA is captive to the homosexual lobby as a former President of the APA said.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Uh, McHugh, who has been denounced by every credible medical body in the past 15 years. You really should talk to an educated grown up in the Mental Health field. You could learn a lot and stop being so scared of the LGBT boogey men that you have created in your mind.

          • Barbi

            Yes, I’ve met several. I don’t find them particularly forthcoming or insightful about the WHY of their respective conditions. It’s too painful –they don’t want to talk about it –so it’s hard to really gain understanding from someone who doesn’t want to discuss the truth behind their gender dysphoria –but gets angry at anyone who doesn’t pat them on the back and say “Good for you!”

          • Mara Glubka

            “We have expanded our healthcare benefits to cover transgender health services, including surgical procedures.”
            -Johns Hopkins Medicine from earlier this year. THESE ARE THE CURRENT FACTS.

            And the gay gene stuff is from over 20 years ago and I still can’t find this front page reprimand that you speak of.

          • pand ne mo nium

            Funny isn’t it that you are born homosexual and you can’t change that fact but whether you are born a boy or a girl you can change that fact. Doublespeak anyone?

          • Mara Glubka

            “The Johns Hopkins Hospital will join a growing number of leading academic medical centers this fall in offering gender-affirming therapies for transgender patients, including sex reassignment surgery and hormonal treatment as part of a range of support options available.”
            -letter from JH Medicine earlier THIS year.

          • pand ne mo nium

            Funny isn’t it that you are born homosexual and you can’t change that fact but whether you are born a boy or a girl you can change that fact. Doublespeak anyone?

          • Barbi

            Great point! I never thought of that one before!

        • pand ne mo nium

          Thankyou for confirming that McHugh has not misrepresented the facts. As we all know here that the truth is ALWAYS the opposite to what is being claimed by the homonazi.

          • Kim Hudlet

            LOLOLOLOLOL! Thanks Rush! Now that’s a grade school response if I ever heard one!!

    • pand ne mo nium

      The fact that you said that Matt Barber’s article contains a high amount of misinformation means that it doesn’t contain a high amount of misinformation as the truth is ALWAYS the opposite to what is being said in favour of the homosexual cause.

  • Mara Glubka

    Dear Mike Barber,
    You’re an idiot.
    Sincerely,
    Every LGBTQ person and 99% of the medical profession.

    Paul McHugh is a religious charlatan and his organization is listed as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. The spreading of their nonsense is like giving voice to the doctors of the 1960s who tried to convince us that cigarettes were good for you. It’s murderous. Knock it off, Barber.

    • Barbi

      IMO, the Southern Poverty Law Center is an atheistic, left-wing extremist organization. So what organization is McHugh with that they call a hate group? I’m sorry, Mara –but you can’t dispute the hard evidence of the CDC and the other sources and studies cited.

      • Kim Hudlet

        I can list several. The APA has denounced him and his statements about Homosexuals and Transgenderism. He aided in the attempted prosecution of a physician of a 10-year-old girl, 28 weeks pregnant, who had been raped by an adult relative. McHugh said that while the girl’s case was “terrible,” it did not change his assessment: “She did not have something irreversible that abortion could correct.” [7] McHugh is also known for his work defending Catholic priests against sex abuse charges. He was a founder and board member of the False Memory Syndrome Foundation.

        • pand ne mo nium

          Of course the APA would denounce anything that contains the truth as it has been hijacked by the homosexual lobby. They call the tune. But of course you don’t want to know about that as it bugger’s up your flight of fancy.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Well of course! the APA is completely hijacked by the ” homosexual lobby” because the 100s of thousands of professionals are unable to stand up to the 3-5% of the population that is exclusively homosexual. Come out pand ne mo nium, I promise to teach you how to spell PANDEMONIUM. Gee, I’m feeling generous….I’ll even teach you what it means.

          • pand ne mo nium

            Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z

          • Kim Hudlet

            At least you have come up with something more mature and clever! Sorry to bore you with facts. You wouldn’t understand them, given that you have no education or background in the field, and grown up discussion must be terrible tedious for you.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Of course, 100’s of thousands of researchers, physicians and mental health professional throw up their hands in surrender to the 3-5% of homosexuals in the population……..don’t you ever get tired of this conspiracy theory non-sense? JFK wan’t really an alien, and there really was a moon landing. Put down the National Enquirer!

      • Michael Davis

        So in other news, the SPLC is generally correct? Truth and fact have a liberal and atheist bias.

      • Mara Glubka

        Well, since you think the SLPC is leftist, why should I bother explaining or answering you. You look it up. You’re totally closed-minded. The ‘hard evidence’ as you call it, is not only skewed, it is filtered through conservative religious dogma. Johns Hopkins will be forced to distance itself from this asinine report. Wait and see. Now, stop hiding behind anonymity. It’s gutless.

        • Barbi

          I say these same things with my whole FB name, Mara. I’m just signed into this forum differently–and haven’t any desire to accommodate the curiosity of people who make me the issue instead of the topic or the research. It’s interesting how consistent social liberals and LGT apologists are in their debate style –always INSULT the other side as ignorant, quoting right wing talking points, religiously bigoted and hateful, and theologically incorrrect or crazy for being Christian — and for interpreting the Bible to mean most of what it says is relevant for today. ALWAYS discredit the messengers and their sources. RARELY does anyone have any evidence to the contrary of mine.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Barbi, if you can’t think for yourself, and have no basis for your thought process outside of your husband’s degree, why do you waste our time?

          • pand ne mo nium

            Barbi is not wasting your time. You are. No one asked you to come here and attack the truth. That is your choice. So typical of homosexuals blaming everyone else except themselves.

          • Kim Hudlet

            So sorry the Truth is uncomfortable for you and Barbi Doll……….

          • pand ne mo nium

            Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z

        • pand ne mo nium

          Thankyou Mara for confirming that Barbi is not closed minded. The hard evidence is not skewed. It isn not filtered through conservative religious dogma. John Hopkins will not be forced to distance itself.

          Gee, you homonazi make it so easy for us to discern the truth.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Psychosis really is treatable. Your comments make no sense, what-so-ever……..unless you are are a trump supporter, and then it makes perfect sense….

          • pand ne mo nium

            Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z

          • Kim Hudlet

            Homonazi… that’s so cute. Actually, its as ignorant and tired as that nasty jackass rush limbaugh. Any original thoughts? Because….wow……zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

          • pand ne mo nium

            ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

        • Husband of the Year

          Why do you refuse to denounce a left wing terrorist organisation?

      • Kim Hudlet

        IMO -“In My Opinion” which in your case Barbie Doll, is an uninformed, uneducated, outdated bit of non-sense. You are entitled to it, but you are not entitled to spread lies unchallenged. We absolutely can dispute the your CLAIMS of what the CDC concluded when you can;t even cite the studies so that other’s can review them. You haven’t actually read the studies, have you?

        • pand ne mo nium

          Thankyou Kim for confirming that Barbi is not an uninformed, uneducated, outdated bit of nonsense and she doesn’t spread lies.

          As for being able to dispute the claims of the CDC, please do.
          We shall look forward to them.

          (Two years later…still waiting).

          • Kim Hudlet

            Take your Lithium. It really won’t allow the aliens to hear what you are thinking pand ne mo nium, I understand that mental illness is difficult. If you don’t have a current provider, let me know your zipcode and I can send some referrals,

          • pand ne mo nium

            Non sequitur.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Did you read the CDC report, Pandnemonium (and have you figured out how pandemonium is really spelled?)

      • pand ne mo nium

        They will dispute anything that doesn’t feed into their narrative built on lies.

    • pand ne mo nium

      Thankyou mara for confirming that Matt is not an idiot and that Paul McHugh is not a charlatan. If that were the case, I guess you would have some evidence to prove your pejorative claims. But…as you don’t we will treat it with a pinch of salt as we don;t want to buy into your anger, hate, intolerance and bigotry.

      As for the SPLC, they are the biggest hate group in America. They hate more people that all the others put together.

    • Husband of the Year

      You are very objective. Very sane.

  • Mara Glubka

    “Over the past two decades, I’ve been gratified by the gradual increase in knowledge and acceptance of the deeply rooted, intrinsic origins of sexual orientation and gender identity, and equally pleased by the growing realization that freedom of sexuality and gender are basic human rights independent of any scientific explanation. It doesn’t upset me all that much when politicians and priests dispute the facts; after all, the Catholic Church only admitted that Galileo was right in 1992 (the same year I started my research at the NIH), and they still don’t accept Darwin.”
    “But when the data we have struggled so long and hard to collect is twisted and misinterpreted by people who call themselves scientists, and who receive the benefits and protection of a mainstream institution such as John Hopkins Medical School, it disgusts me.”
    -DEAN HAMER, PhD and Scientist Emeritus at the National Institutes of Health addressing the premise of this article.

    Your article is bigoted and dishonest, Mr. Barber

    • Barbi

      It’s an excellent article, Mara Glubka. There is nothing intrinsic, immutable, inevitable about gender dysphoria and homosexual orientation even if the homosexual lobby at the APA gets that organization to deny that LGT’s are mentally ill. The transgenders are clearly delusional, pretending to be what they so clearly are not. The homosexuals got inducted into orgasmic pursuits, too often under-age. AT the beginning of research on GRID (Gay-related immunity deficiency ) later known as AIDS — gays self-reported 2 stranger encounters per week. Those aren’t “relationships,” they aren’t “romantic love” –and they aren’t responsible unselfish love, either –nor is such “love” good for people. Many have converted out of their homosexual lifestyle –like author, PhD Rosaria Butterfield.

      • Kim Hudlet

        Oh Barbi girl, have you ever met a physician? You really think a non-existent “gay lobby” that represents 3-5% of the population can force 100s of thousands of physicians to just throw up their hands and say “OK, we know it’s not scientific but we’ll do what you want…”? You are delusional if you believe that.

        • Barbi

          I’m married to a physician, Kim and i know a lot of them –and none I know thinks LGT’s are “born that way.” My husband would inquire of gay patients about their sexual histories –and he says he never had one that wasn’t molested in youth –2 he recalls by their grandfather –whom they hated thereafter. Read Rosaria Butterfield’s book –a phd prof at Syracuse? or Columbia? formerprof –and lesbian activist –who became a Christian and a wife and mother.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Alright, there you have it. LGBTQI people (erase the BQI because it’s inconvenient to fabrications)
            Let’s talk to your husband and see if he is willing to reveal himself as an imbecile and risk his licence to perpetuate lies and propaganda.. .

          • pand ne mo nium

            Thankyou for confirming that Barbi’s husband is not an imbecile and that he doesn’t perpetuate lies and propaganda.

            I have noticed that as this conversation has developed, the accusations by the homonazis has got more shrill and pejorative. I wonder what they are trying to avoid or deny?

          • Kim Hudlet

            Aren’t you cute!! Time to go to bed little boy. Mommy is calling.

          • pand ne mo nium

            Sounds like someone who never grew up and has had to repress his childhood memories because they were so bad.

          • Kim Hudlet

            And Rush Limbaugh speaks again for the Radical Christian right.

        • pand ne mo nium

          A previous President of the APA admitted that scientific research had been hijacked by homosexual propagandists so that what they presented was no longer scientific. Straight from the horse’s mouth you might say.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Not sure where you came in as a TROLL in the discussion, but your comments suggest you are a 15 yo boy in the basement of his mothers house. Isn’t it time to turn of the porn, wash your hands, brush your crusty little teeth and go to bed before your mom figures out you are disrespecting the adults?

          • pand ne mo nium

            Another silly little asinine comment from someone who is devoid of intelligent comment so all you can do is make childish attacks on anyone who happens to know what they are talking about.

          • pand ne mo nium

            Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z

          • Kim Hudlet

            No, that would be Paul McHugh, the same delusional sap that we have been discussing throughout this thread. Not using his name doesn’t make him any more credible, but nice try at the ol’spin the truth and see if the uneducated masses will buy it. Trump supporters do. Maybe you are in the wrong forum.

          • pand ne mo nium

            Former APA Presidents
            2015 Barry S. Anton, PhD, ABPP
            2014 Nadine J. Kaslow, PhD, ABPP
            2013 Donald N. Bersoff, PhD, JD
            2012 Suzanne Bennett Johnson, PhD
            2011 Melba J.T. Vasquez, PhD
            2010 Carol D. Goodheart, EdD
            2009 James H. Bray, PhD
            2008 Alan E. Kazdin, PhD
            2007 Sharon Stephens Brehm, PhD
            2006 Gerald P. Koocher, PhD
            2005 Ronald F. Levant, EdD, ABPP
            2004 Diane F. Halpern, PhD
            2003 Robert J. Sternberg, PhD
            2002 Philip G. Zimbardo, PhD
            2001 Norine G. Johnson, PhD
            2000 Patrick H. Deleon, PhD, MPH, JD
            1999 Richard M. Suinn, PhD
            1998 Martin E.P. Seligman, PhD
            1997 Norman Abeles, PhD
            1996 Dorothy W. Cantor, PsyD
            1995 Robert J. Resnick, PhD, ABPP
            1994 Ronald E. Fox, PhD
            1993 Frank Farley, PhD
            1992 Jack Wiggins, Jr., PhD
            1991 Charles Spielberger, PhD
            1990 Stanley Graham, PhD
            1989 Joseph D. Matarazzo, PhD
            1988 Raymond D. Fowler, PhD
            1987 Bonnie R. Strickland, PhD
            1986 Logan Wright, PhD
            1985 Robert Perloff, PhD
            1984 Janet T. Spence, PhD
            1983 Max Siegal, PhD
            1982 William Bevan, PhD
            1981 John J. Conger, PhD
            1980 Florence L. Denmark, PhD
            1979 Nicholas A. Cummings, PhD
            1978 M. Brewster Smith, PhD
            1977 Theodore Blau, PhD
            1976 Wilbert J. Mckeachie, PhD
            1975 Donald T. Campbell, PhD
            1974 Albert Bandura, PhD
            1973 Leona E. Tyler, PhD
            1972 Anne Anastasi, PhD
            1971 Kenneth B. Clark, PhD
            1970 George W. Albee, PhD
            1969 George A. Miller, PhD
            1968 A. H. Maslow, PhD
            1967 Gardner Lindzey, PhD
            1966 Nicholas Hobbs, PhD
            1965 Jerome Bruner, PhD
            1964 Quinn McNemar, PhD
            1963 Charles E. Osgood, PhD
            1962 Paul E. Meehl, PhD
            1961 Neal E. Miller, PhD
            1960 Donald O. Hebb, PhD
            1959 W. Kohler, PhD
            1958 H. F. Harlow, PhD
            1957 Lee J. Cronbach, PhD
            1956 Theodore M. Newcomb, PhD
            1955 E. Lowell Kelly, PhD
            1954 O. H. Mowrer, PhD
            1953 Laurence Frederic Shaffer, PhD
            1952 Joseph McVicker Hunt, PhD
            1951 Robert R. Sears, PhD
            1950 Joy Paul Guilford, PhD
            1949 Ernest R. Hilgard, PhD
            1948 Donald G. Marquis, PhD
            1947 Carl R. Rogers, PhD
            1946 Henry E. Garrett, PhD
            1945 Edwin R. Guthrie, PhD
            1944 Gardner Murphy, PhD
            1943 John Edward Anderson, PhD
            1942 Calvin Perry Stone, PhD
            1941 Herbert Woodrow, PhD
            1940 Leonard Carmichael, PhD
            1939 Gordon Willard Allport, PhD
            1938 John Frederick Dashiell, PhD
            1937 Edward Chace Tolman, PhD
            1936 Clark Leonard Hull, PhD
            1935 Albert Theodor Poffenberger, PhD
            1934 Joseph Peterson, PhD
            1933 Luis Leon Thurstone, PhD
            1932 Walter Richard Miles, PhD
            1931 Walther Samuel Hunter, PhD
            1930 Herbert Sidney Langfeld, PhD
            1929 Karl Lashley, PhD
            1928 Edwin Garrigues Boring, PhD
            1927 Harry Levi Hollingsworth, PhD
            1926 Harvey A. Carter, PhD
            1925 Madison Bentley, PhD
            1924 Granville Stanley Hall, PhD
            1923 Lewis Madison Terman, PhD
            1922 Knight Dunlap, PhD
            1921 Margaret Floy Washburn, PhD
            1920 Shepard Ivory Franz, PhD
            1919 Walter Dill Scott, PhD
            1918 John Wallace Baird, PhD
            1917 Robert Mearns Yerkes, PhD
            1916 Raymond Dodge, PhD
            1915 John Broadus Watson, PhD
            1914 Robert Sessions Woodworth, PhD
            1913 Howard Crosby Warren, PhD
            1912 Edward Lee Thorndike, PhD
            1911 Carl Emil Seashore, PhD
            1910 Walter Bowers Pillsbury, PhD
            1909 Charles Hubbard Judd, PhD
            1908 George Malcolm Stratton, PhD
            1907 Henry Rutgers Marshall, AM
            1906 James Rowland Angell, MA
            1905 Mary Whiton Calkins, AM
            1904 William James, MD
            1903 William Lowe Bryan, PhD
            1902 Edmund Clark Sanford, PhD
            1901 Josiah Royce, PhD
            1900 Joseph Jastrow, PhD

            I DON’T SEE PAUL McHUGH’s name there. I guess you have to invent some stupid comment to save face for your abysmal lack of truth.

          • Mara Glubka

            Which APA president are you referring to then? Name, please.

          • Kim Steinke

            Touche checkmate

        • Husband of the Year

          Yes.

        • Barbi

          Well, Kim, I’m married to one–who says his gay patients said they had been molested when he asked them about the origins of their orientation –2 bro’s by their grandfather, e.g.. We knew of one molested in a church bath room by an older teen boy –which set him to wondering about himself. Molestation can feel erotic and not painful –and can stimulate desire for more experiences –hence, a boy can be disillusioned about his own sexuality, thinking he shouldn’t have erotic feelings with one of his own sex or there must be something “wrong” with him. When in fact sexual touch is erotic –and it should not be done outside of hetero marriage because the interest can become addictive and affect identity.

          McHugh and Mayer participated in transgender efforts at Johns Hopkins and concluded the folks were just as unhappy after the surgeries as before –if not more so –and decided it was not in anyone’s best interest to undergo such surgery–nor to be encouraged in such delusion. Their recently published work was a compilation of many studies on the topic of dysphoria and transgenders, etc. Of course, the LGT’s discredit ANY research or opposition to their conclusions favoring their hedonism –which is heedless of reality. It’s just as mentally ill to think you are the other sex as to think you are fat when you are anorexic –or to think you are Abe Lincoln or Jesus –as some mental patients think.

        • Barbi

          BTW –what “hundreds of thousands of physicians” believe that homosexuals are born, not made –and that transgenders aren’t deluded?

      • Michael Davis

        So, it is a stupid article, and you are stupid for admiring it. Cheers!

        • pand ne mo nium

          That must mean that it is not a stupid article and that Barbi is not stupid for admiring it. I can’t get over how much the homonazi is confirming the truth of the article.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Really Barbi, you can’t do any better than sign in under another name and post inane, nonsense?

          • pand ne mo nium

            And you don’t seem to be able to do anything other than post childish asinine comment befitting someone with a very low IQ and a damaged ego.

          • Barbi

            I couldn’t sign in at all –had forgotten my password by the time I tried to answer responses here and had to re-set –and I didn’t have time to mess with it. I don’t know pand ne mo nium, but appreciate a kindred mind and spirit. And she/he isn’t I.

      • MJ

        Barbi, you’re just reiterating the political talking points. Such as “transgenders are clearly delusional”.

        Obviously you know zero about trans folks. But, continue to spout your false platitudes that you learned from others as gospel, this is a free country. You’re wrong. 100% wrong. But you have the right to be on the wrong side of history and the wrong side of God’s salvation.

        • Barbi

          I know 2 teen girls who identified first as lesbians –were very “butch’ in mannerisms, athletic interests –and sexual activities –alleged in their neighborhoods among youth I knew. by now, they may think they are transgenders. They were dressing and acting the part. You don’t have to be a scientist to KNOW that transgenders are delusional, that they cannot really be what they want to be or think they are in their heads –that they have chosen this identity preference –for various reasons. In the case of these 2 girls, both were harmed by men. Both lacked fathers to treat them as girls should be treated by fathers. One had a mother who accommodated and defended her delusion. The other did not and she was the more reasonable (and flexible) of the 2 girls on the topic.

          • Kim Hudlet

            “You don’t have to be scientist to KNOW that transgenders are delusional…” Uhhhh, yeah you do, That’s why states require people to have graduate degrees and many years of supervision in order to make that kind of diagnosis….”I knew these two girls( as opposed to the millions of LGBTQI people available). I spend a great deal of time with addicts who knew that one guy who made millions while still smoking pot, felt more creative while using Heroin, know “lots” of people who can drink heavily and smoke pot without any problem,,,,,

          • Barbi

            Some things are common sense. I’ve raised 4 babies to adulthood, and I know I TAUGHT them what gender they were. I have watched women post on an Oprah forum about their children –and how they LOOKED for signs of transgender condition in their toddlers once the publicity was out there. They wrote things like: “The baby chose a pink crayon –he liked the pink girly aisles in the toy store more than the boy toys –He tried to put the scrunchy in his hair -or put a towel on his head to have long hair –or tried on Mom’s high heels –or liked to carry her purse –or showed interest in nail polish and jewelry, mom’s clothes–and on and on the nonsense goes!!!

            I gave my boys the shaving cream and the empty razor so they could pretend to shave (and have gooey fun) like dad –who didn’t normally use a razor –except as a lesson to reinforce identity with Dad. Wise parents instinctively know (wise ones I repeat) that they can direct their children’s identity and self-awareness as male or female. “No, you don’t want to let sister paint your nails –You’re a GUY –like DADDY and GRAMPA! –Guys get to do neat stuff like……whatever. the sandbox with earth moving toys. And both boys and girls like to COOK –let’s make some cookies. (Girls can’t be the only ones to have tactile fun with gooey stuff.)

          • Barbi

            Another anecdote — a friend posted her toddler boy’s photo –wearing a tiara –and said he said, “I’m your little princess boy.” I would not post the picture if I were her –or tell him he was her princess boy–or ooh and ah or give any positive attention when he put the tiara on his head. That’s a common history for transgenders. Like the 5 year old in Minnesota in the news recently –he got started when he was entranced by Beyoncé in an evening gown performing –and his parents played the video for him over and over. Next thing he wanted to be like her –and then a girl like her –and at 5 they wanted the school to treat him like a girl–and wanted the school to TEACH about transgenders to the kdgtn –and the other parents protested rightly so–and the school agreed not to teach that kids can be whatever sex they want to be –and now the parents are suing the school.

        • pand ne mo nium

          And of course you are going to produce infallible evidence that she is wrong aren’t you.

          Mind you, judging by the contributions of the pro homosexual cause here so far, I will not hold my breath.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Happy to produce that which the article ( and silly little Barbi cannot). Let me know when your mom let’s you come back down to the basement.

          • pand ne mo nium

            Just as I thought. No evidence just another childish asinine comment to massage a damaged ego.

          • pand ne mo nium

            more trash from a troll

    • Barbi

      Since you repeated Dean Hamer’s statement, I repeat my info on Hamer:

      I bet you don’t know that Dean Hamer, while working for the National
      institute for Health –on cancer research (I think –not sure –it’s
      been a long time and I’m not googling him today) he crossed over into
      speculating and announcing a gay gene (later a religious one –anything
      to get your name in the news) –He cited the Maternal brother
      –uncle-nephew gay link –without being sure that gay uncle didn’t
      influence or even molest gay nephew –possibly as the only male role
      model for said nephew. I called the NIH and asked if Hamer checked
      out that possibility. I asked if he knew that genes found in common
      among his few gay subjects (and found among heteros, also) could be
      proven to be for sexual attraction –instead of musical or artistic
      talent –ALSO shared by many gays (and heteros.) Next thing, it was
      on the front page of the newspaper that the NIH reprimanded Hamer –for
      flaws in his research and conclusions. I’m not lyin’! I always
      wondered if I helped to start something there!

      Then there were the
      LaVey cadaver brain studies –a few cadavers of gay men showed some
      brain similarities and didn’t consider that their HIV meds or their
      addictive behaviors might have effected those similarities. NOW we
      know for sure that BEHAVIOR affects STRUCTURE of the brain –and
      especially the pleasure transmitting neurons of addicts. We also know
      NOW that more homosexual & bisexual youth than heteros are not just
      addicts to sodomy but to drugs, including heroin.

      • Kim Hudlet

        Sorry Barbi ( please get a grownup name) I have to take a break, since I’m trying to heal the damage that people like you cause,. I spend my life and career helping your victims. You give me a headache.. Haven’t had to answer so many remedial, ignorant statements in quite some time….

        • pand ne mo nium

          And whilst you are doing that we will be healing the damage done by people like you cause. We spend our lives helping your victims that have been sold a lie that you are born homosexual.

          At a national conference for homosexuals the presenter said in a workshop on future plans “We have to convince people that we are born homosexual, EVEN THOUGH WE KNOW WE ARE NOT, so that we can make it a civil rights issue”

          And thank you for confirming that Matt’s article was not full of remedial and ignorant statements. As we know the truth is ALWAYS the opposite to what you claim.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Kindly tell us all what YOU do to heal anyone?

          • pand ne mo nium

            I don’t do anything to heal anyone. It is Jesus that does the healing. I am just the vehicle that he works through.

          • Kim Hudlet

            And yet you only serve to promote hate and loss. You might actually discover that reaching out to help those who are hurting could help heal the hurt you seem to lash out from. I truly believe that Jesus could work through even you if you opened your mind and heart. We are still praying for you.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Wow. Are you a friend of Barbi’s? You don’t make any more sense than she does……

          • pand ne mo nium

            Another childish asinine comment from a paid up member of the “Don’t bother me with the truth, I am happy in my ignorance” club.

      • Mara Glubka

        Can’t find this front page you speak of. Link please.

        • Barbi

          I read it in my local city newspaper -Hamer was on the front page –left side –I remember the placement. It was not a large article –just NCI calls Hamer on the carpet –words to that effect.

    • pand ne mo nium

      The fact that you said Matt Barber’s article is bigoted and dishonest is a clear indication that it is not bigoted and dishonest.

      • Kim Hudlet

        Go to bed now, the grown ups are talking. You have posted nothing but adolescent reasoning.

        • pand ne mo nium

          And you have posted nothing but asinine comment. So childish.

    • Husband of the Year

      Are you a privileged white women, like your avatar would imply?

    • TruthvLIes

      The American Academy of Pediatrics has clearly stated that giving the impression that a child is transgender is child abuse because no one is.

      Therefore Mara your comment is bigoted and dishonest.

    • Kim Steinke

      Congratulations you are correct sir it took me a long time to figure it out to, their good but God is better. truth wins in the end stay humble and forgive them I guess cuz they don’t know better but they should buy now. I can’t wait to get to heaven and God say Well done faithful servant. And yes I’m gay and created by God.Amen

  • Though in no short supply of arrogance, fear mongering and misogyny (and maybe a pinch of internalized homophobia – I’m just saying), it would seem you are deeply confused about what qualifies as good writing, sound science or faithful theology.

    • Barbi

      Easy to SAY, Kimberly, now, how do you defend your statement without merely insulting the research and the researchers –and the writer –who has done an excellent compilation of what I already knew from my husband’s medical journals? What is your defense of an opposing view?

      • Kim Hudlet

        Your husbands medical journals!? Kindly cite those articles and journals!! But don’t bother with the journals from prior to the past 15 years. Otherwise its just more hot air out of the radical right.

        • Barbi

          Family Practice News, vol. 40, No. 13 –August 2016 “HIV RISK Gay and bisexual males high schoolers have high injected drug use –by Bruce Jancin –at AIDS 2016.

      • Michael Davis

        Is your husband as made up as the “research” in this article? Seriously. The Sweden study he cites is fabricated. But you want to believe because it reinforces your prejudice.

        • pand ne mo nium

          And you don’t want to believe Michael because to do so would not allow you to reinforce your prejudices.

        • Barbi

          I have a handsome MD husband, family practice. And you just want to believe the research is fabricated in the above article. You say it is fabricated –one of the gals here says they just resented how he used their data –that he didn’t interpret it correctly. So was there a Sweden study or not? Of course there was. And of course he didn’t fabricate it. He just took the part that made his case.

          I did that, too –I didn’t bother to mention the researcher’s poltically correct speculation that the high school boys may be into drugs at such a high rate because of discrimination toward themselves for being males having sex with males. The data speaks for itself –boys having sex with boys in high school are ALSO, with their illicit sex behaviors, doing illicit drugs –a much higher percentage of them than the heterosexuals.

          Researcher says maybe because of prejudice toward them —
          In any case, I say these comorbid behaviors

      • Mara Glubka

        Mine would be the same as below ‘Barbi’.

        “Over the past two decades, I’ve been gratified by the gradual increase in knowledge and acceptance of the deeply rooted, intrinsic origins of sexual orientation and gender identity, and equally pleased by the growing realization that freedom of sexuality and gender are basic human rights independent of any scientific explanation. It doesn’t upset me all that much when politicians and priests dispute the facts; after all, the Catholic Church only admitted that Galileo was right in 1992 (the same year I started my research at the NIH), and they still don’t accept Darwin.”
        “But when the data we have struggled so long and hard to collect is twisted and misinterpreted by people who call themselves scientists, and who receive the benefits and protection of a mainstream institution such as John Hopkins Medical School, it disgusts me.”
        -DEAN HAMER, PhD and Scientist Emeritus at the National Institutes of Health addressing the premise of this article.

        • Barbi

          I bet you don’t know that Dean Hamer, while working for the National institute for Health –on cancer research (I think –not sure –it’s been a long time and I’m not googling him today) he crossed over into speculating and announcing a gay gene (later a religious one –anything to get your name in the news) –He cited the Maternal brother –uncle-nephew gay link –without being sure that gay uncle didn’t influence or even molest gay nephew –possibly as the only male role model for said nephew. I called the NIH and asked if Hamer checked out that possibility. I asked if he knew that genes found in common among his few gay subjects (and found among heteros, also) could be proven to be for sexual attraction –instead of musical or artistic talent –ALSO shared by many gays (and heteros.) Next thing, it was on the front page of the newspaper that the NIH reprimanded Hamer –for flaws in his research and conclusions. I’m not lyin’! I always wondered if I helped to start something there!

          Then there were the LaVey cadaver brain studies –a few cadavers of gay men showed some brain similarities and didn’t consider that their HIV meds or their addictive behaviors might have effected those similarities. NOW we know for sure that BEHAVIOR affects STRUCTURE of the brain –and especially the pleasure transmitting neurons of addicts. We also know NOW that more homosexual & bisexual youth than heteros are not just addicts to sodomy but to drugs, including heroin.

          • Kim Hudlet

            “it was on the front page of the newspaper that the NIH reprimanded Hamer –for flaws in his research and conclusions. I’m not lyin’! I always wondered if I helped to start something there!” Since you seem very interested in Mental health, we call this “delusions of grandeur”

          • Barbi

            It was probably coincidental –but I called the media office at the NIH to inquire about the gay gene research –or it was the NCI –not sure which anymore. It wasn’t very long after that the article of his being “called on the carpet” was on our city paper front page. Delusions of grandeur –or just coincidence. But it’s the truth.

          • Mara Glubka

            Please provide the link to this front page you speak of. I can’t find it. Here’s a thought. WHO CARES what orientation or gender identity someone has. Personally, scientific proof doesn’t mean that anyone should be forced to live by Judeo-Christian ‘rules’ about sex and gender. All of this crap is about oppressing femininity in males. Nobody gives a damn about masculine females. And I suspect that you’re not a ‘Barbi’ at all. You’re just a propagandist for LGBTQ hate. You probably work for this site.

          • pand ne mo nium

            “You’re just a propagandist for LGBTQ hate” so you claim Mara.

            Could it be Mara, you are just a propagandist for LGBTQ denial and deception?

            Oh by the way, can you tell me where having a different opinion to you is considered hate other than in the minds of those with an emotional dysfunction?

          • pand ne mo nium

            Just as I thought. You can’t tell me. You are all hot air and hyperbole.

          • Mara Glubka

            No one’s trying to deny your civil rights. BIG difference.

          • pand ne mo nium

            Two things. One, I take it you can’t tell me where having a different opinion to you is considered hate other than in the minds of those wiht an emotional dysfunction. Thankyou for confirming that for me.

            And two, you are so funny. So you consider sending someone death threats because they said something you didn’t like is not denying a person’s civil right to freedom of speech?

          • Barbi

            No –I don’t work for this site. The article showed up on my home page at Facebook –so I checked it out and checked in here to discuss on Disqus. I knew the content of the article from my own reading before –like about the CDC report in Family Practice News. And looking up Johns Hopkins and finding McHugh and MAyer study through that connection.

            R U asking for a link to my comment on Dean Hamer? I wrote about him from memory here –from when he came out with his gay gene theory which was YEARS ago. No one has announced a gay gene since. And he was debunked.

            The masculine females –I knew one that was as hetero in interest as she could be. No lesbian. I know 2 now who are teens –one was attacked at age 8 but got away –the other was raped by 3 guys at age 12. They embraced masculine dress and mannerisms afterward —and call themselves lesbians –and were candidates for transgenders in appearance and desire to be with girls. Most of us women think lesbians could be won over by attractive desirable males –especially my relative who seemed to become more butchy in adult hood –as she started to be a lesbian activist –rainbow on the truck –partnered with another teacher –who just didn’t find a guy and a girl found her instead –and being an artist, she was open to being “different” in a gay-promoting school. A relative, however, suspected that her art teacher molested her in high school at her home –got her going.

            The gays I know –got hooked by the activities, and the very forbidden fruit aspect of it is part of its allure for them I think. And it damages their self-image –to be turned on by guys. I’ve seen one go in and out of his femmie mannerisms –he could be normal if he wanted to be –in how he acted. But he got schtick –and mileage out of the femmie role.

          • Barbi

            It was in chicago tribune –I think I posted that link here –it’s findable –it was 1995 –all about his sloppy research and it wasn’t me –it was a fellow researcher that told on him –that his genetic mapping was inaccurate or something like that. He had gotten a lot of publicity for his gay gene announcement –but he didn’t prove what he claimed at all. I posted this but the website claimed a glitch and that post didn’t appear here.

          • pand ne mo nium

            Stop it Barbi. They will have a meltdown if you keep throwing the truth at them. They can’t handle the truth so they get into a frenzy trying to scrape up their lies to combat the truth. Without their lies they have no narrative to try and convince people who know what the truth is that it is their lies that is truth, not our truth.

            I have asked hundreds of homosexuals what their proof is that they are born homosexual and only one tried to give me any proof. He say I am homosexual so that is proof that you are born homosexual. Doh!

            Just goes to show that they prefer to believe lies.

      • Mara Glubka

        And who are you, really? My guess would be that you’re a 50-year-old Bible thumper with a big beer belly and a worn-out couch. You hate all minorities and own an assault rifle. Oh, and you love Duck Dynasty. You right-wingers are famous for your anonymity online. Totally gutless and nasty.

    • pand ne mo nium

      Thankyou for confirming the fact that the article is not full of arrogance, fearmongering and misogyny and internalized homophobia (strewth) and the writer is not deeply confused about what qualifies as good writing, sound science or faithful theology.

      If all that was true which it isn’t, you would have plenty of evidence which you don’t have to prove your case.

      • Kim Hudlet

        All of that IS true and easily verified. At first I thought you were this ignorant, uneducated woman claiming to know what she is talking about by reading her husbands medical journals, LOLOLOLOLLOLOL! You are the author of this article, aren’t you. Your Narcissism wont allow you to back down, but you can’t back up these ludicrous statements. Life must be very difficult for you.

        • pand ne mo nium

          Another very silly and asinine statement. I wish I was the author of this article as it is a factual masterpiece because you said it was.

        • Barbi

          What are you talking about here –whom? Pand and I are not the same person, I promise. Lying is not something either she/he or I would do –given our claim to faith in the God of Truth. I am not ignorant nor uneducated –and why can’t you stay on topic instead of doing what liberals usually do –resort to ad hominem attacks instead of point for point debating. You get frustrated with your own lack of knowledge and factual back-up –and so you insult.

    • Husband of the Year

      Says the privileged white woman.

  • Dawn Cowell

    This article is crap and lacks education and is full of bad theology and facts about abuse and the study of sexuality. I grow tired of folks that think you can put God in a box and everything is black and white in this grey world.

    • Barbi

      Don’t ignore the science part of the article –the research studies –by more than just the 2 men –they compiled research from all over –and the CDC did the study of the h.s. boys showing the correlation with illegal drug use and gender-flexing.

      • Kim Hudlet

        No Barbie, they LIED about research from all over. An example that is easy to find are the interviews with Dr. Dhejne, whose 2011 Swedish study on transgender men is regularly misrepresented by McHugh and others on the radical right. Despite that the author’s specifically state the exact opposite, McHugh and others continue to misrepresent it to condemn treatment for transexual individuals, and these authors are pissed.

        • Barbi

          Probably because the facts they reported didn’t do what they claimed –but what Mc Hugh claimed. Today’s pro LGT “scientists” ignore the ramifications of the facts they report. E.G. if there IS more suicide among transgenders AFTER their surgeries –and among gays AFTER they wed –some psychs and apologists for sodomy will say “it’s because society doesn’t approve –and regard them and treat them as normal and this makes them depressed unto suicide.”

          They won’t consider that many LGT’s are depressed after all efforts to accommodate their attractions and delusions –because what they are doing is WRONG — and thus peace and true contentment won’t come to them. Because there is a God of righteousness and they are out of sync with Him.

          • pand ne mo nium

            The fact is Barbi and the homonazi do not want to know about this, is that happiness is an internal experience. If a homosexual is unhappy before he is married and he is, then he will be unhappy after he is married. That is the reason they have such short relationships, as research by homosexuals show.

            If they are unhappy before gender reassignment they will be unhappy after gender reassignment.

            Most of the homosexual way of life is premised on externals to make them happy. That is why there is such a high suicide rate amongst them because the externals will never give them happiness. They do not realise this as their emotional dysfunction does not allow them to.

            If they could get some caring counsel which points out that the way of life they live is the problem and has them trapped in a prison of denial they would soon realise that being homosexual is not what is it cracked up to be and the sooner they get out of it the better.

            I have used this line of thought when counselling those with an unwanted same sex attraction and it has always worked.

          • Barbi

            Huh? “The fact is Barbi and the homonazi do not want to know about this, ”

            What are you saying about me here?? You and I are on the same page, you know. I am not a homo-nazi –per se, though I’m sure both of us are thought to be.

          • pand ne mo nium

            Sorry Barbi, a grammatical error. There should have been a comma after your name so that it read The fact is Barbi, and the homonazi do not want to know about this….

          • Kim Hudlet

            Wow…just , wow. You really don’t let facts get in your way……………..

          • pand ne mo nium

            And you don’t let truth get in your way of telling a good story.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Kindly cite your education in mental health and/or theology.

          • pand ne mo nium

            Kindly cite your education in asinine comment and irrelevant claims.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Ahh, gotta love that Christian charity. Since I actually post with my full name and picture, my graduate degrees in these specific fields are easily verified. Licenses in multiple states also easily verified. Not sure why you are so hostile, especially to the idea of doing simple research with credible sources, rather that demand everyone prove to you the world isn’t flat and the moon isn’t made of cheese………

        • pand ne mo nium

          If that is what you claim then the truth is that the Swedish Study is not misrepresented by McHugh and others on the radical right. It seems to me that what McHugh and others say is misrepresented by the radical left. But then what is new.

          • Kim Hudlet

            That just goes to show you either haven’t read the study or didn’t understand it.

        • Barbi

          I’m sure McHugh is for treatment of LG AND T’s –just not risky surgeries and hormone treatments to perpetuate a delusion. As he says, you cannot really change your gender –not even with surgery and hormones. You can only masquerade as the opposite gender. It’s the LIBS and the APA who don’t want homosexuality “treated” by psychs –and probably the same for Transgenders –no treatment allowed –except to attempt a transition –reassignment. And that doesn’t work for most –they will always feel like the odd man –or woman –out –or the 5th wheel in social settings –You can’t make very many straights willing to date the transgender or marry him or her –or room with them in college. They’ll be forcing our kids into these rooming situations–just like in the military now.

      • Mara Glubka

        Science is usually the overwhelming consensus of scientists. When 99 of of 100 agree, that’s usually good enough. There is no VALID science behind this article. It’s ‘let’s start with religion and then manufacture justification’. Utterly weak and biased thinking.

        • Barbi

          Science is hypothesis proven by a preponderance of evidence –based on observation. the evidence we have is that you can’t change your gender just because you want to. You are still a bio-male or female. They don’t find happiness even in gay-friendly Sweden. Where do you get your 99 out of 100? That’s not factual.

          • Kim Hudlet

            That would be correct….if it was 1940,,,,,,,

          • pand ne mo nium

            What is that saying…don’t bother me with the truth, I am happy in my ignorance.

          • Kim Hudlet

            That’s actually the first honest and factual thing you have said! Congratulations! That’s a big step!!

        • pand ne mo nium

          Your comment tells us that the article is not utterly weak and biased. Thankyou for confirming it is the truth. If it was weak and biased you would be able to produce some evidence that it was but as you have not and cannot, then the opposite is true.

      • Mara Glubka

        Yeah, it’s more than 2 men. About 60 people make up their group, the American College of Pediatricians, which is named so people will confuse it with the 66,000 member American Academy of Pediatricians which says that the ACP is full of beans as does EVERY other major medical association in the U.S.. Did you know that there is also a correlation between commenting anonymously online and bad breath? Yeah, and people who are the most vociferously anti-LGBTQ are provably closeted.

        • pand ne mo nium

          That must mean that the truth is that people who are the most vociferously anti Old Uncle Tom Cobley and all are not closeted.

          Actually when all is said and done the most anti Uncle Tom Cobley and All are homosexuals themselves because they spread all sorts of lies about the homosexual way of life trying to give the idea that it is all hunky dory when in actual fact is is totally soul destroying and if a person sees the light and wants out they shout “You can’t do that because you are born homosexual so you are stuck for life.”

          If that isn’t anti homposexual I don’t know what is. But what can you expect when it is based on lies so all you can do is perpetuate the lies.

    • pand ne mo nium

      That must mean that this article is full of truth and facts as rusted on homologues ALWAYS call the truth lies. As the saying goes “when you hate the truth, the truth is always hate.”

      I have noticed that all those posting their lie that this is complete rubbish have not produced one single argument to prove it is. All they have done is degenerate into pejorative argument without a scrap of evidence.

      • Mara Glubka

        And there is no ‘evidence’ to support the conclusions of this ‘study’. It starts with a religiously-rooted conclusions and twists and misrepresents research to fit its prejudice. It’s total political rubbish funded by Christian family and legal groups in an attempt to move America to theocracy. They say that society will crumble or civilization will perish if the human race accepts LGBTQ people. They, and you, are unkind and have almost a rigor mortis of the soul. The only thing that will happen from acceptance of LGBTQ people is LESS SUFFERING by LGBTQ people.

        • pand ne mo nium

          Thankyou for confirming that what we say is true. You do know don’t you that the truth is always the opposite of what the homosexuals claim?

  • Dana Stinson

    You quote McHugh. You instantly lose credibility. Nice try.

    • Barbi

      Did you ever hear of him before?

      • Kim Hudlet

        I’ve heard of him many times. When the APA disavowed him and his work, when Johns Hopkins disavowed his non-sense, when the research authors who’s work he misrepresents and misquotes have to respond over and over to correct his lies about their work.

        • Barbi

          no question that research is subject to interpretation, but facts are what they are. No evidence of genetic or hormonal influence producing LGT’s. There is evidence that your chromosomes determine people to be male or female (except for the rare defect of intersex which is not any majority of LGT’s.) Environmental influences –parenting or lack of it, cultural influences, media, educators, phony biased assumptions from the soft science of psych –which underwent 4 years of pressure from the LGT lobbyists to remove their perversion from the list of mental disorders . Now they’ve done it for transgenders who are obviously delusional –and subjecting themselves to risky hormones and mutilating, sterilizing surgeries to be what they are not –and the push is on to legitimate pedophiles as mentally normal. Every sort of perversion is being re-considered as “natural” and therefore GOOD. Sin is natural.

          • pand ne mo nium

            What is that verse in the bible? “Woe to those that call good evil and evil good.” Who said the Bible was out of date.

          • Mara Glubka

            I did. WAY out of date. Myth. NONSENSE.

          • pand ne mo nium

            You back again spouting your asinine nonsense!!

          • Kim Hudlet

            Seriously, open a book!!There is a great deal of evidence showing genetic and hormonal influences on LGBTQI people. I know you have internet because you keep posting non-sense here….. you are clearly being WILLFULLY ignorant.

          • Barbi

            You keep saying this –but you never cite any sources.

          • Kim Hudlet

            There is no push to legitimize pedophiles as mentally normal…you are a fruitcake!!

          • pand ne mo nium

            “If a small group of psychiatrists and other mental health professionals have their way at a conference this week, paedophiles themselves could play a role in removing pedophilia from the American Psychiatric Association’s bible of mental illnesses — the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), set to undergo a significant revision by 2013. Critics warn that their success could lead to the decriminalization of pedophilia.”

            “The statement that paedophilia is “natural and normal” was made not three decades ago but last July. It was made not in private but as one of the central claims of an academic presentation delivered, at the invitation of the organisers, to many of the key experts in the field at a conference held by the University of Cambridge.”

            “Paedophilic interest is natural and normal for human males,” said the presentation. “At least a sizeable minority of normal males would like to have sex with children … Normal males are aroused by children.”

            Paedophiles may be wired differently. This is radical stuff. But there is a growing conviction, notably in Canada, that paedophilia should probably be classified as a distinct sexual orientation, like heterosexuality or homosexuality. Two eminent researchers testified to that effect to a Canadian parliamentary commission last year, and the Harvard Mental Health Letter of July 2010 stated baldly that paedophilia “is a sexual orientation” and therefore “unlikely to change”.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Cite your sources please…..this is just more made up right wing garbage.

          • Barbi

            I cited a page –and it isn’t here. I found the Canadian professor who presented on this topic. I recall also an academic saying that such attentions from pedophiles didn’t have to be harmful to children. Believe me, the nutcases in the academic world do want to push this idea onto the APA –to say that pedophilia is an ORIENTATION just like homosexuality and transgenders –something inborn –just another aspect of diversity in sexuality –neither good nor bad –not to be criminalized –eventually to be tolerated and accommodated and approved. Next thing we’ll teach children not to be traumatized by sexual experience with adults –as long as care is taken to not inflict pain–the kids can ‘do” the adults — Perversion keeps coming.

          • Mara Glubka

            You are unnatural and UN-AMERICAN. If you want to find pedophiles look at pastors, priest and ministers.

            This is from the 66,000 member American Academy of Pediatricians (as opposed to the 60 or so members of the ACP):

            American Academy of Pediatrics Commends White House for Asserting Protections for Transgender Students
            5/13/2016 Schools must allow transgender students to use bathrooms consistent with their gender identities
            WASHINGTON, DC—The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) commends the U.S. Departments of Education and Justice for their joint guidance to school districts across the country clarifying protections for transgender students.

            The letter requires those school districts receiving Title IX funding, which prohibits sexual discrimination in educational programs, to allow transgender students to use restrooms consistent with their gender identities. In the letter, the Administration writes that Title IX also prohibits discrimination based on gender identity, including against students based on their transgender status.

            “For too long, transgender youth have been subjected to messages implying that that they are ‘less than,’ outliers and threats. Today’s action by the White House sends a different message: that they are accepted, supported, and that their rights deserve to be protected,” said Karen Remley, MD, MBA, MPH, FAAP, executive director and chief executive officer of the AAP.

            Last month, the AAP and its North Carolina chapter issued a statement opposing HB2, a bill passed in North Carolina preventing transgender individuals from using the restrooms of their identified gender; the law is now working its way through the court system.

            “Transgender children are still children. Children who are already at increased risk for violence, bullying, harassment, and suicide. Children who are among the most vulnerable, and who feel the least safe in school. These children need adults to accept them, nurture them, and support them for who they are; today, that is exactly what happened,” said Dr. Remley. “The AAP welcomes the federal government’s action and supports the pediatricians, parents, teachers and others across the country who care for and stand up for transgender youth every day.”

            YOU are a member of a small, bigoted, religiously motivated minority and you have zero compassion for those different than yourself. And I don’t believe for a minute that you’re a ‘Barbi’. I’m guessing a ‘Bubba’ is a little closer.

          • Barbi

            Ha –bubba? I am a mother of 4 and a wife of a physician –MD –who didn’t join any more medical associations than he had to. Too busy, unnecessarily expensive and AMA became more liberal every year –only 1/5 of MD’s belong. Matters not how big or small a group is. Look how small the sexual minority of homosexuals is –yet they made a huge noise to change perspectives. No need to mock smaller medical associations for coming together in recent years to oppose the status quo –the establishment –which just “goes along to get along.” Too many are pressured in their academic careers from the PC maniacs taking over academia and gov’t. There are many principled, brilliant scientists and physicians who do not agree at all with the PC LGT crowd. WE CARE ABOUT KIDS –and we know that more and more of them will get caught in this web of sexploration and sexperimentation which the LGT community WANTS for kids. Haven’t you seen the entertainment of the idea that pedophilia is inborn interest –and not harmful to kids? Pedophilia will be taken off the DSM list –and polygamy will be legalized. ( Did you know that early immigrants in 20th c. had to say they would not practice polygamy in the U.S. –or maintain loyalties to their home countries –in order to become citizens? We need to spell that out for Muslims, too –and also that they will not harm Christians, Jews or LGT’s in America. Because in their countries, such harm is done to those minorities and they need to know they can’t practice their religious freedom to THAT extent. They can teach and preach their views –but not teach and preach murder.)

          • Barbi

            You are wrong about the compassion. I have plenty –especially for kids who are getting caught up in delusion about their sexuality and self-image. This PC stuff is harmful. I know homosexuals and have felt sorry for all of them–and knew it wasn’t necessary for any of them to go this route. It’s rooted in wrong thinking about God, self, and sexuality.

        • pand ne mo nium

          I don;t suppose that you have heard of the 59 pieces of research into homosexual parenting that was done by homosexuals that said all was hunky dory in homosexual parenting land that was peer reviewed and in every case, the methodology was called into question so they were all debunked. Despite these facts the rusted on homosexuals still quote them as fact. Some have even said they proved that homosexual parents make better parents than heterosexual ones.

          So before you rubbish those who are a thorn in your flesh, take a look at your own efforts at distorting the truth.

      • MJ

        Yes, many, many, many times.

    • pand ne mo nium

      And the fact that you question McHugh, without any evidence I might add, means that you instantly lose credibility.

      • Mara Glubka

        McHugh’s Johns Hopkins is back from the stone-age and back in the sunshine of TRUTH and compassion:

        Dear Colleagues,

        During the month of June, a number of communities celebrated lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) Pride Month. Here in Baltimore, LGBT Pride extends into July, providing Johns Hopkins Medicine the opportunity to celebrate in just a few weeks.

        Johns Hopkins Medicine is diverse in many ways. We are proud of the work we do on a daily basis to ensure that ours is an institution where we provide the best possible care to all who seek our help. We aim to create an environment in which our patients and their families feel safe and confident in the care they receive, and have the knowledge that Johns Hopkins employees are expected to treat our guests and each other with dignity and respect.

        We feel it is important to restate our commitment to assuring respect and support for our LGBT patients, guests and employees. Together, we are creating a more inclusive enterprise so we can provide the best care and a welcoming, supportive environment for all.

        As part of this commitment, we have undertaken numerous steps in this and prior years to address the care, respect and dignity of LGBT individuals and allies.

        All Johns Hopkins Medicine and Johns Hopkins University nondiscrimination policies now include gender identity and gender expression.
        We promote culturally competent care for every person we are privileged to treat. We engage in an array of activities to facilitate that aim, including training our staff members, faculty members and students in issues related to LGBT health and improving our capacity to deliver an extraordinary experience for every patient.
        We have expanded our healthcare benefits to cover transgender health services, including surgical procedures.
        All six Johns Hopkins member hospitals achieved recognition from the Human Rights Campaign Foundation’s 2016 Healthcare Equality Index, a national survey promoting equitable and inclusive policies in health care.
        Johns Hopkins Children’s Center physicians helped lead an American Academy of Pediatrics committee that authored the 2013 policy statement that supports access to clinically and culturally competent health care for all LGBT and questioning youth.
        In the past year, two Johns Hopkins Medicine task forces on LGBT health care have been charged with developing new paths for our institutions to further approaches to evidence-based, patient-centered care for LGBT individuals.
        The Johns Hopkins Hospital will join a growing number of leading academic medical centers this fall in offering gender-affirming therapies for transgender patients, including sex reassignment surgery and hormonal treatment as part of a range of support options available.
        Johns Hopkins is proud to once again support our employees who are participating in Baltimore’s Pride Parade on July 23. More information is available via the intranet for those who would like to help represent Johns Hopkins Medicine at this event as we show our support for our LGBT friends, family members, patients and colleagues.

        We are grateful to you for helping make Johns Hopkins a better place.

        Sincerely,

        Paul B. Rothman, M.D.
        Dean of the Medical Faculty
        CEO, Johns Hopkins Medicine

        Ronald R. Peterson
        President, The Johns Hopkins Health System
        EVP, Johns Hopkins Medicine

        • pand ne mo nium

          Which homosexuals invented all that baloney?

        • pand ne mo nium

          But you said it was NOT a John Hopkins study so how can it be a John Hopkins study from the stone age. Either it is a JH study or it is not. When it is from is irrelevant.

  • Excellent. This article is a keeper in my bookmarks.

    • MJ

      Why? With such falsehoods and assumptions-assumed-to-be-facts, which aren’t facts at all, why would you bookmark this link?

      • He lists the John Hopkins Study as his sources, Do you dispute the study? So which of his points do you dispute and what is your evidence? Where do you get your evidence from?

        • Mara Glubka

          It’s NOT a Johns Hopkins study. Just ask them.

          • pand ne mo nium

            And of course you have evidence for this?

          • They didn’t refute or reject the study.

      • pand ne mo nium

        And of course MJ you are going to regale us with all the evidence you have that the article is nothing more than falsehoods and assumptions.

        You are aren’t you?

        • pand ne mo nium

          No, as I thought not. Just all hyperbole and hot air.

    • Mara Glubka

      Dear Colleagues,

      During the month of June, a number of communities celebrated lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) Pride Month. Here in Baltimore, LGBT Pride extends into July, providing Johns Hopkins Medicine the opportunity to celebrate in just a few weeks.

      Johns Hopkins Medicine is diverse in many ways. We are proud of the work we do on a daily basis to ensure that ours is an institution where we provide the best possible care to all who seek our help. We aim to create an environment in which our patients and their families feel safe and confident in the care they receive, and have the knowledge that Johns Hopkins employees are expected to treat our guests and each other with dignity and respect.

      We feel it is important to restate our commitment to assuring respect and support for our LGBT patients, guests and employees. Together, we are creating a more inclusive enterprise so we can provide the best care and a welcoming, supportive environment for all.

      As part of this commitment, we have undertaken numerous steps in this and prior years to address the care, respect and dignity of LGBT individuals and allies.

      All Johns Hopkins Medicine and Johns Hopkins University nondiscrimination policies now include gender identity and gender expression.
      We promote culturally competent care for every person we are privileged to treat. We engage in an array of activities to facilitate that aim, including training our staff members, faculty members and students in issues related to LGBT health and improving our capacity to deliver an extraordinary experience for every patient.
      We have expanded our healthcare benefits to cover transgender health services, including surgical procedures.
      All six Johns Hopkins member hospitals achieved recognition from the Human Rights Campaign Foundation’s 2016 Healthcare Equality Index, a national survey promoting equitable and inclusive policies in health care.
      Johns Hopkins Children’s Center physicians helped lead an American Academy of Pediatrics committee that authored the 2013 policy statement that supports access to clinically and culturally competent health care for all LGBT and questioning youth.
      In the past year, two Johns Hopkins Medicine task forces on LGBT health care have been charged with developing new paths for our institutions to further approaches to evidence-based, patient-centered care for LGBT individuals.
      The Johns Hopkins Hospital will join a growing number of leading academic medical centers this fall in offering gender-affirming therapies for transgender patients, including sex reassignment surgery and hormonal treatment as part of a range of support options available.
      Johns Hopkins is proud to once again support our employees who are participating in Baltimore’s Pride Parade on July 23. More information is available via the intranet for those who would like to help represent Johns Hopkins Medicine at this event as we show our support for our LGBT friends, family members, patients and colleagues.

      We are grateful to you for helping make Johns Hopkins a better place.

      Sincerely,

      Paul B. Rothman, M.D.
      Dean of the Medical Faculty
      CEO, Johns Hopkins Medicine

      Ronald R. Peterson
      President, The Johns Hopkins Health System
      EVP, Johns Hopkins Medicine

      • Oh wow, you’re a happy copy-and-paste person. Got a life?

        • Mara Glubka

          I notice that you’re here, too. And yes, I’ve devoted my life to combating conservative religious patriarchy wherever it rears its ugly head. I tend to think that if everyone would lay down their ‘holy’ books, the world would be a happier place. Women and LGBTQ people would be MUCH better off.

          • I’m here because this is a conservative news source. I’m not trolling here like you are. Anyway, do you really think you’re going to change anyone’s mind here? I don’t go to Huff Post or which ever semi-communist sites projecting the left’s version of the news. I don’t go there because it’s a waste of my time. Coming here is a waste of your time.

          • pand ne mo nium

            So right Manny. They get so upset when they are confronted by the truth and when they try and walk all over us and we push back against all their lies, they get all weepy and say what a nasty person you are.

          • Mara Glubka

            So what’s wrong with trolling pathological liars with a conservative Christian agenda? Someone’s gotta do it. No free passes for hate.

          • Just like that other guy who’s gotten enraged here, you’re in some serious need of help. Forget the issue, you wasting your time here shows you have a mental hangup.

          • True. They have distorted and used political power to create a lie. We need to continue with the truth, and the truth is that it is not normal for two people of the same gender to have sexual relations, let alone “married.”

          • pand ne mo nium

            Ha ha mara, you do love to show your ignorance don’t you. I think your motto is say anything even if it makes me look stupid.

            I have just read ANOTHER book that points out how unlike their Roman masters who treated their women abysmally, the New Testament Church gave clear instructions that women were to be treated with the utmost of respect. As Paul taught them, husbands were to love their wives as Christ loved the Church.

            And how did Christ love the church? He gave his life for it. Paul taught the men to nurture and protect their wives and lay down their lives for them if need be.

            What’s not to like, tell me? On that evidence your so called conservative religious patriarchy is a figment of your totally deluded imagination.

            I am sure you will come up with some asinine comment to try and prove you are right and I am wrong.

          • Mara Glubka

            What’s not to like? Hell, I could spend hours with that one. I thought Christ gave his life for mankind’s sins. It was just love for the church though, huh? I had 12 years of religious schooling. It took a long time to recover. Now all religion disgusts me because it’s mostly about fear and judgment. Love rarely makes an appearance. As is evidenced here and every place where folks like you commiserate.

  • Willow Gallant

    99% of medical professionals who’ve had many years of studies on these topics disagree with you. Transgender is biological, it has existed since the dawn of civilization, likely even farther because gender is constructed based on hormones. If there is a dominant estrogen presence during brain development, even if the sex is make, the brain will develop in a feminine way. Men can also have a longer/narrower androgen receiver, this means that the body takes a great deal to receive testosterone, causing a lower natural level, which will create a feminine male in both body and likely brain patterns as well.

    There’s literally been homosexual animals found in the wild, as well as animals that have been regarded as transgender. There is literally know scientific evidence that supports the statements in this article, why is this? It’s because what the 99% of medical professionals who actually study the fields of LGBT that disagree with you are not citing opinion, they’re citing years of science, and science is a cold hearted b***ch with a 14 inch strap-on”.

    • pand ne mo nium

      Thank You Willow for letting us know what the truth is. Over the years that I have been reading the claims of those rusted onto homosexual ideology I have noticed certain things and have adjusted my thinking accordingly.

      One of the most obvious ones is that if I want to know the truth, I just take the opposite viewpoint of those rusted onto homosexual ideology and that is the truth.

      One of the pathetic justifications they have come up with is the homosexuality of animals. I have been told that up to 1,500 animal species are homosexual. That means the truth is that 1,500 animal species are not homosexual. In my search for the truth, I came across evidence that some animals go through periods of homosexual activity for a short period of time,but they always revert back to heterosexual activity for the simple reason that power in the tribe is always on the basis of sexual prowess with the female sex. A homosexual animal has not got a hope in hell of ever becoming the king of the tribe rooting his own sex.

      A word of warning here. There are animals that eat their own young. Are you going to emulate them too. And there is one that eats her mate once they have had sex. Is that what you do? You should if you are claiming the animal way of life as justification for what you do.

      Mind you, having found out some of the things that homosexuals do when having sex, ‘animal’ is the right description for them.

      And finally, 99% of medical professionals disagree with us. That means 99% of medical professionals do not disagree with us.

      • Mara Glubka

        Rusted on to hate.

        • pand ne mo nium

          Rusted onto asinine comment.

        • pand ne mo nium

          Mara cupcake who seems to specialise in the asinine comment.

    • Barbi

      Willow–I don’t think you have more than theory for the idea of feminine brain development causing homosexual male or transfemale. Intersexed, maybe, but not the normal bodied, normal hormoned gay or lesbian. No gay or lesbian was ever studied in the womb having their mother’s hormones monitored during pregnancy. The condition DEVELOPS after birth –and there are plenty of influences in the child’s experiences to cause the LGT self-image –especially nowdays. They lack their fathers –they get molested –the school suggests homosexuality to them –the TV celebrates –and they parade their perversion down the street –which no doubt looks like lots of fun. If they ARE late to mature in body –late bloomers –lack affirming men in their lives – – have less macho aptitudes and interests –peers will label them–sometimes their parents do. What I’ve seen is non-affirming fathers –and over domineering mothers. OR boys that role model after mother –or parents who baby them and sissify them –big brothers who terrorize –any number of experiences CAN affect a kid’s self-image –and culture is just pushing them over the edge –as does opportunity to start having “sex-perience” with others. Wise parents trouble-shoot –and play their own roles well –and TEACH their kids that it is good to be what they ARE –just the way God designed them –so they could be either mommies or daddies –with a husband or wife someday –that this is why girls are different from boys. That’s MY theory –and advice.

      We are not animals and shouldn’t emulate animal behavior. They are creatures of instinct –who want to hump something –like a human’s leg, even! But they can’t reproduce that way — nor can man with man or woman with woman. –Nor can we be what we are not –it’s a delusion just like the anorexic who sees herself as fat. That’s mental illness –so is transgendering –and homosexuality is not mentally normal or healthy either.

  • Iconoclast24601

    This article contains such gross factual falsehoods and logical non sequiturs that, despite the writer’s alleged Christianity, such behaviour is not compatible with Christian values.

    • Barbi

      What factual falsehoods? Easy to say–can you prove it? There IS no genetic cause proven to date–and no LGT has been studied in the womb to determine that the maternal hormones went awry and affected the brain. We TEACH kids their gender –almost subconsciously–but we need now to do it consciously –making them glad about their bodies and their identification with others of their assigned gender. Gender IS an assignment –and it is unwise to mess with it as some parents and our culture itself are doing.

      • Mara Glubka

        WHY is unwise to ‘mess’ with gender assignment? What PROOF do you have of any harm done when people get to choose who they are instead of someone else, like religious folks, for instance? And WHY do you righties think it’s you’re right to get in the way of another’s happiness? NO medical or mental health association subscribes to the ‘science’ of this propaganda. None of them. ZERO. Nada. They ALL support the conclusion that orientation and gender identity is innate. Hell, even Dr. Phil does. What there is absolutely no proof of is that anyone has ever been ‘cured’ through therapy. All of these organizations consider that harmful. These things are as innate as handedness and you know it. The question is – what is your motive? Why do you care if people are gay or transgender? Why don’t you just say ‘oh, that’s nice’, and go about your business? Hmm? Oh that’s right, you think that dogs and cats will start living together if society accepts LGBTQ people. You are standing in the way of the unalienable rights of all that Thomas Jefferson spoke of in the Declaration of Independence. He didn’t speak of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for everyone except LGBTQ people. He meant EVERYONE. YOU ARE UN-AMERICAN.

        • pand ne mo nium

          Having studied American History I think that you will find that when Jefferson spoke those words, the perversion of homosexuality was not even on his radar as it was virtually unknown. LGBTQISAMBR people are a modern day invention devised by people who consider themselves authorities on nature and nurture and an attempt to revise it in the light of their own deceptions and emotional dysfunction.

          By the way, I added a few more letters to your designation as I am told by the distortion experts there are already 57 different genders.

          As for what proof there is. Would you not consider the fact that “[T]he rate of lifetime suicide attempts across all ages of transgender individuals is estimated at 41 percent, compared to under 5 percent in the overall U.S. population” sufficient proof?

          Mind you I would not be surprised if you do not consider it sufficient proof as I have noticed that those rusted onto homosexual propaganda have a hard time seeing the wood for the trees and would rather have their own kind dying than admit they are wrong.

          • Kim Hudlet

            That is certainly proof that people like you torture others while hiding behind a fake name and avatar.

          • pand ne mo nium

            That is certainly proof that you specialise in ansine comment.

          • Mara Glubka

            Alright, stop spelling asinine wrong. It makes you seem… well… you know. And it’s specialize, Mr. spelling bee.

          • Kim Hudlet

            And yet here am, not hiding behind childish attacks and a blank Avatar. Come out, come out little girl. Put your big girl pandes on and act like a grown up.

          • Mara Glubka

            pand ne mo niot.

          • pand ne mo nium

            Mrs. Mara Cupcake.

        • Barbi

          Mara, I don’t agree with you at all –and have not seen ANY legitimate scientific claim (since Hamer’s phony claim –and La Vey’s) that there is some genetic or congenital cause for LGT conditions. There is MUCH evidence of molestation in history of homosexuals –and even Dr. Phil says the most important role model in a kid’s life is his same gender parent. Homosexual marrieds deprive the kids of one gender or the other as parent. That, in turn, pre-disposes SOME kids to have gender identity issues. How children are treated by parents and others and peers affects their self images. Culture –media and education –are encouraging kids to “think outside the box” of their bodies and ponder what else they might be –or whom they might love and marry of their own gender. Latest theory I heard was the hormone in the womb -theory –yet no homosexual has been studied in the womb to prove that conclusion. Yes, hormones can affect sex characteristics in animal studies –physical defects, not identity.

          If our country keeps this up, we shall go the way of Sodom and Gomorrah and be destroyed –whether by natural disaster, terrorism within or without, racism, economic collapse, nuclear enemies. We seem headed for all 5. The bible predicts the earth will be destroyed by fire. And warns us to get ready for the Judgment Day. They laughed at noah and would not repent –so salt water covered the earth and laid fossils of salt water creatures EVERYWHERE.

      • Kim Hudlet

        Did your MD husband stop getting journals in the 1940’s?? There are TONS of studies showing that there is genetic determination….what is WRONG with you??

        • Barbi

          Yes, Kim? Cite your sources. No gene yet.

      • Kim Hudlet

        Really? You need me to cite the plethora of scientific evidence? Gladly!! I love to educate the people who are reading this but not commenting.

        • Barbi

          Yes, indeed –where is the scientific evidence of genetic cause? Don’t tell me about Dean Hamer. He was “called on the carpet” YEARS ago for his claim o find a gay gene. More recently he got in the news claiming to find a religious gene. He’s sure to find something right some day!

    • You’re disputing the John Hopkins Study?

      • Kim Hudlet

        Absolutely disputing Paul McHugh. This is not Johns Hopkins, as they have distanced themselves, as well

        • Where does it dispute the study? Show me the language?

          • pand ne mo nium

            It is obvious Manny that these fundamentalist left wing socialists with an agenda are long on rhetoric and short on evidence. They spin and twist and turn but fail to show the ACTUAL evidence for their claims. All they can do is hot air and hyperbole.

          • Mara Glubka

            Just go to any of the major medical association websites. It’s all there. Oh, and if you ever bothered to actually talk to any of the people affected by this nonsense, you’d find that NONE of them think this is anything but hateful charlatanism. 100%.

          • Barbi

            Are you aware that only 1 out of 5 physicians now belongs to the AMA?

            As for the APA, “The labels in the DSM-V (like the Diagnostic and Statistical Manuals
            that came before it) have really become little more than the roadmap by
            which psychiatrists chase both insurance reimbursement and applause from
            special interest groups who lobby—sometimes very effectively—for one
            diagnosis to be included, or another to be removed. ” Only 44% of psychologists belong.

            I don’t know what percentage belong to the Christian groups, but it should tell you something that there really ARE many persons of faith who have advanced degress in medicine and psychology –who don’t agree with these visible, vocal, activist organizations.

            NARTH has 1000 members, was started by a psychologist and 2 psychiatrists.

            Political correctness on the subject of sexuality is pure evil. They are insisting on uniformity in an unproven tenet “born this way.” “immutable” “inevitable.” That’s just not so. There ARE ex gays and ex lesbians. And ex-trans persons.

          • Very true. The have used political power to distort the truth.

          • Kim Hudlet

            There are medications to help with this paranoid fantasy that 3-5 percent of the population can convince hundreds of thousands of researchers, physicians, psychologist, and other mental heal professionals to throw up their hands and succumb to some make believe agenda. Does reality get in your way at all?

          • Anyone who spends this much time on a website that will in no way see it their way, has to be in serious need of medication. Forget the issue, you need some serious help.

          • Kim Hudlet

            You have Internet and yet refuse to read anything but raducal Christian right wing propaganda. The point being that it takes very little effort the find out what Charlatans, yet you refuse to stop sucking at the tit of Fox News, although that may be too progressive for you. As I told Manny. I can easily provide evidence that is readily available. You haven’t shown the intellect or openers to even Leste to the people in this field with a lifetime of study and experience. Your arrogance is stunning. We will continue to pray for you.

          • Barbi

            I assume you mean yourself –a lifetime of study and experience. That’s what McHugh and Mayer have –to even a greater extent than your claim –and at a higher level of prominence in the field, I dare say –they being famous and you not so much.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Oh, Barbie……you are so sad.

            Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
            ——– Original message ——–From: Disqus Date: 9/8/16 3:25 PM (GMT-06:00) To: kim@kimhudlet.com Subject: Re: Comment on The Entire ‘LGBT’ Narrative Just Crumbled
            “I assume you mean yourself –a lifetime of study and experience. That’s what McHugh and Mayer have –to even a greater extent than your claim –and at a higher level of prominence in the field, I dare say –they being famous and you not so much.”

            Settings

            A new comment was posted on The Stream

            Barbi

            I assume you mean yourself –a lifetime of study and experience. That’s what McHugh and Mayer have –to even a greater extent than your claim –and at a higher level of prominence in the field, I dare say –they being famous and you not so much.

            4:25 p.m., Thursday Sept. 8

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          • pand ne mo nium

            Do I? Tell me, How have you seen what I read on the internet? Do you have access to my computer? Are you connected to me via the internet? Is your skype running? And have you visited my home and seen the content of my personal library with over 1,000 books?

            The only news I read is the ABC on the TV. I can’t be bothered to look it up on Fox news on the computer.

            What does the term “even Leste to the people” mean?

            My arrogance is a figment of your imagination. You mistake arrogance for confidence in the truth which sets people free. As you can’t handle the truth I can understand that you fear it and will try and stop people posting it because it gives you palpitations.

            You hope that by being obtuse, offensive, pejorative, supercilious, rude and full of hot air you can cower people into subjection to figments of your imagination.

            Sorry to say, your efforts are a complete failure because no one in thier right mind is going to trade the assurance they have for the myths that you offer.

        • Barbi

          Same answer for you as for Mara above: Science isn’t based on majority rule, believe it or not. And being
          religiously motivated doesn’t make one less scientific than the
          atheistically motivated –and the PC and sexual deviance-motivated.
          Time magazine reported all the phony research being peer reviewed and
          made up by Asian firms offering phony research and theses for PhDs for
          thousands of dollars. Two peer-reviewed journals had to throw out some
          400 papers –which they learned were phony. One lady even served as
          her own peer reviewer, using her maiden name.

      • Mara Glubka

        Dear Colleagues,

        During the month of June, a number of communities celebrated lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) Pride Month. Here in Baltimore, LGBT Pride extends into July, providing Johns Hopkins Medicine the opportunity to celebrate in just a few weeks.

        Johns Hopkins Medicine is diverse in many ways. We are proud of the work we do on a daily basis to ensure that ours is an institution where we provide the best possible care to all who seek our help. We aim to create an environment in which our patients and their families feel safe and confident in the care they receive, and have the knowledge that Johns Hopkins employees are expected to treat our guests and each other with dignity and respect.

        We feel it is important to restate our commitment to assuring respect and support for our LGBT patients, guests and employees. Together, we are creating a more inclusive enterprise so we can provide the best care and a welcoming, supportive environment for all.

        As part of this commitment, we have undertaken numerous steps in this and prior years to address the care, respect and dignity of LGBT individuals and allies.

        All Johns Hopkins Medicine and Johns Hopkins University nondiscrimination policies now include gender identity and gender expression.
        We promote culturally competent care for every person we are privileged to treat. We engage in an array of activities to facilitate that aim, including training our staff members, faculty members and students in issues related to LGBT health and improving our capacity to deliver an extraordinary experience for every patient.
        We have expanded our healthcare benefits to cover transgender health services, including surgical procedures.
        All six Johns Hopkins member hospitals achieved recognition from the Human Rights Campaign Foundation’s 2016 Healthcare Equality Index, a national survey promoting equitable and inclusive policies in health care.
        Johns Hopkins Children’s Center physicians helped lead an American Academy of Pediatrics committee that authored the 2013 policy statement that supports access to clinically and culturally competent health care for all LGBT and questioning youth.
        In the past year, two Johns Hopkins Medicine task forces on LGBT health care have been charged with developing new paths for our institutions to further approaches to evidence-based, patient-centered care for LGBT individuals.
        The Johns Hopkins Hospital will join a growing number of leading academic medical centers this fall in offering gender-affirming therapies for transgender patients, including sex reassignment surgery and hormonal treatment as part of a range of support options available.
        Johns Hopkins is proud to once again support our employees who are participating in Baltimore’s Pride Parade on July 23. More information is available via the intranet for those who would like to help represent Johns Hopkins Medicine at this event as we show our support for our LGBT friends, family members, patients and colleagues.

        We are grateful to you for helping make Johns Hopkins a better place.

        Sincerely,

        Paul B. Rothman, M.D.
        Dean of the Medical Faculty
        CEO, Johns Hopkins Medicine

        Ronald R. Peterson
        President, The Johns Hopkins Health System
        EVP, Johns Hopkins Medicine

        • No where do they dispute the study. Sure they are committed to treating all patients but it doesn’t say what you want it to say. If you ask me, it sounds like the gay lobby put pressure on him to be politically correct.

          • Mara Glubka

            Yes, I’m sure that’s it. It’s not that he’s doing right by people out of compassion and reason. You folks are really reaching with the PC crap.

          • I stand by what I said. No where does JH refute the study and the two psychologists who ran it are among the most prestigious inthe world. You don’t like the message, so you attack the messenger.

          • Mara Glubka

            They are prestigious only to the Christian right. EVERYONE else thinks they’re dangerous charlatans. You know… the sane, compassionate and rational people. And Johns Hopkins refutes everything. Just go there. Do a little research. Write to them. Ask them if they agree with McHugh and Mayer. Every medical institution or association except the official hate group, the ACP, does. ALL OF THEM. But, of course, that’s not enough, is it? You’ve got your ‘study’ and it all fits your worldview, so you just dismiss everything else as ‘far-feft’. Goooooofy.

          • Hahahaha. You have absolutely no facts. You’re becoming a joke.

          • Mara Glubka

            Here’s a fact. The religiously motivated ACP has about 60 members, the REAL pediatrician org has about 66,000 members and that say McHugh and Mayer are wrong.

          • Barbi

            Science isn’t based on majority rule, believe it or not. And being religiously motivated doesn’t make one less scientific than the atheistically motivated –and the PC and sexual deviance-motivated. Time magazine reported all the phony research being peer reviewed and made up by Asian firms offering phony research and theses for PhDs for thousands of dollars. Two peer-reviewed journals had to throw out some 400 papers –which they learned were phony. One lady even served as her own peer reviewer, using her maiden name.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            “EVERYONE else thinks they’re dangerous charlatans.” Your faux omniscience fails you but your biases, bigotry, and ignorance don’t. You failed to recognize the 200+ Peer Reviews! LOL

            And your “EVERYONE”, as well as your “ALL OF THEM”, not only completely discredits you but it shows you have NO problem showing yourself as a bold-faced Liar who simply ignores the truth to promote her agenda.

            Your “and it all fits your worldview, so you just dismiss everything else” is what Jesus would call a Giant Sequoia Tree sticking outta your eye socket.

            Yup. Goooooofy is absolutely right. Now if you only would understand who that applies to.

          • Barbi

            The Religious Right just may be bigger than you think –and certainly way bigger than the LGT community (so far –granted the disorder is being encouraged and thus, spreading.) Moreover, these 2 men compiled the results of SEVERAL studies –and saw what they knew to be true –that gender dysphoria is a disorder. I (and maybe they) would call it a developmental disorder –not congenital –not from birth -but afterwards –and not because of genes or hormones (proven) but because of culture: parenting, peers, teaching, pride promotion, presidential suppoert, molesters, tv and all the PC nonsense.

        • Kim Hudlet

          Mara, I believe this is the epitome of “casting pearls before swine.” 2nd Timothy 4:4 “They will reject truth and chase myths…..” I don’t know how much more mythical one can get than Paul McHugh.

          • Barbi

            Kim, you are doing a dangerous thing. Are you pretending to be a Christian for sport here –or do you think you are a Christian who knows truth? You are being a false prophet to teach scripture and use it against God’s people and His Word. You are judging McHugh –and you are wrong in your judgement. As Dr. Phil would say, these scientists didn’t “just come in on a load of turnips.” They have been IN this field dealing with gender dysphoria for their whole careers. The fact that they may be retired now, doesn’t invalidate their ability to interpret the research and report on it.

          • pand ne mo nium

            I do. The epitome of mythical has to be Kim Hudlet and Mara Glubka.

      • Kim Hudlet

        We are disputing these two authors who haven’t been with Johns Hopkins in 15 years, yet try to make it sound as though they are associated with major universities. If I thought it would help, I would be happy to go through this line by line to help you understand why there isn’t a professional out there who would swallow any of the nonsense in this article and I wold even be willing to prove that the study twists studies to claim what it wants, but I haven’t heard any openers to truth or facts in your questions. Then we have Pandemonium with her pandes in a twist and hatred in her heart. The problem is that all of you, CL, Barbi, pandemonium, and you Manny, hide behind blank Avatars and anonymous screen names, yet refuse to do your own stinking research on the nonsense posted. I’m tired of spoon feeding facts to troglodites, only to have you jump up and down and reply with silly little mean girl responses.

        • If you’re so demented by getting enraged at a conservative news site, why do you waste your time and energy here? Do you think you’re actually changing anyone’s mind? You’re deranged.

        • Barbi

          Johns Hopkins apparently has merely jumped on the 21st C. PC bandwagon since McHugh and Mayer left. But these guys have the experience –and they know that transgenders were as unhappy after surgery, etc. as before –and so it is medical resources wasted on them –to accommodate their delusions –because you cannot make a man into a woman or vice versa –it’s a charade. A masquerade. A body costume. The brain is where all our sins originate (some would say “the heart”) meaning the soul or mind of man –our inner being. Wanting to be the other gender –or have sex with your same gender –it’s all sin. It’s rebellion against how God made you. It is to be pitied when it is a developmental disorder influenced by others –and bad teaching –and lack of protection –and a corrupt culture which says, “If it feels good, do it –and sex-plore your sexuality and consider being LG or T –or B.” This is just Satan’s work to keep us from being normal, happy, and capable of procreation. It’s a lifestyle that spreads from one person to another like an infectious disease of self indulgence –and orgasm-centered pursuit.

    • pand ne mo nium

      I think that you will find that telling the truth as Matt has done is very compatible with Christianity as Jesus said “I am the the way, the truth and the life.”

      And thank you for confirming that when you hate the truth, the truth is hate.

      • Mara Glubka

        You show that love and Christianity are incompatible, Mr. a non y mous.

        • pand ne mo nium

          You show that you specialise in asinine comment. Mrs. Mara Cupcake.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Ohhh, name twisting, you just dropped from 4th grade to 2nd grade responses. Our Bible study truly is praying for you.

          • pand ne mo nium

            oh z z z z z z z z z z z z

        • pand ne mo nium

          And you show that stupidity and hyperbole are totally compatible.

      • Kim Hudlet

        How can a grown up with”I know you are, but what am I?” You got all us grownups again, Pandemonium.

        • pand ne mo nium

          Oh z z z z z z z z z z z z

  • Kate Shouse

    I’m a 47 year old transgender woman and I can unequivocally say this article, and the supposed “Science” it tries to foist upon the general public, is nothing but lies and quasi -Christianity passed off as scientific knowledge!
    Anyone who believes this tripe is either delusional or just willfully ignorant!

    • So which of his points do you dispute and what is your evidence? He lists the John Hopkins Study, Where do you get your evidence from?

      • Kim Hudlet

        Uhhh….have you read ANY of the other posts? McHugh is the biggest fraud to come along this century. Do really think that you will overturn science by pretending to be so dense and demanding that people repeat themselves over and over because you are stupid? I am so tired of trying to educate troglodytes like you!!

        • What does that have to do with the study? John Hopkins is as credible a scientific and medical outfit as they come.

          • Mara Glubka

            It’s NOT a Johns Hopkins study. It’s a right-wing propaganda piece done by old white Christians who USED to be with JH. Johns Hopkins did not participate AT ALL.

          • And JH does not refute it. Those two psychologists who ran the study are among the most prestigious in the world. You don’t like their message? What specifically do you dispute? There are ten billeted conclusions listed above, Which ones are wrong?

          • Mara Glubka

            All of the ‘billeted’ conclusions are wrong. Every one.

          • pand ne mo nium

            Yes of couse. How silly of us not to realise that. By the way, what do you have your Ph.D in? Baloney and hyperbole?

          • Kim Hudlet

            They are the most debunked in the world. The only people who would call them prestigios, beyond their Narcissistic selves, are those uneducated who want to hear that the world is flat because it fits their simplistic view of God and keeps God and humankind in a box they think they can handle.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Except that this is nonsense written by 2 guys that haven’t been at Johns Hopkins for 15 years….

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Thanks again for proving Dr. Brown’s point!!!

          • Kim Hudlet

            McHugh hasn’t been at Johns Hopkins since 2001…..

        • pand ne mo nium

          That must mean that McHugh is not the biggest fraud to come along this century as the truth is ALWAYS the opposite of what fundamentalist left wing socialist with an agenda say.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Right…..how can I dispute “liar, liar, pants on fire!? You got me again.

          • pand ne mo nium

            And we always will as you do nothing other than spout romantic fantasy full of rhetoric and hyperbole that is as weak as dishwater and full of fundamentalist left wing hate, intolerance and bigotry.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Wow, you’re a real snooze. At least come up with something that isn’t straight out of a 2nd grader’s mouth if you want to part of the grown up conversation.

          • pand ne mo nium

            A ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

        • pand ne mo nium

          I am so glad that you have given up on trying to educate us. I would hate to end up the same as the ignoramus left wing fundamentalist hater that you are.

      • Mara Glubka

        Johns Hopkins completely refutes this study and the study you refer to is totally debunked by Dean Hamer PHD, Professor Emeritus, NIH. Here is a letter from earlier this year that states Johns Hopkins Medicine’s current position on LGBTQ matters:

        Dear Colleagues,

        During the month of June, a number of communities celebrated lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) Pride Month. Here in Baltimore, LGBT Pride extends into July, providing Johns Hopkins Medicine the opportunity to celebrate in just a few weeks.

        Johns Hopkins Medicine is diverse in many ways. We are proud of the work we do on a daily basis to ensure that ours is an institution where we provide the best possible care to all who seek our help. We aim to create an environment in which our patients and their families feel safe and confident in the care they receive, and have the knowledge that Johns Hopkins employees are expected to treat our guests and each other with dignity and respect.

        We feel it is important to restate our commitment to assuring respect and support for our LGBT patients, guests and employees. Together, we are creating a more inclusive enterprise so we can provide the best care and a welcoming, supportive environment for all.

        As part of this commitment, we have undertaken numerous steps in this and prior years to address the care, respect and dignity of LGBT individuals and allies.

        All Johns Hopkins Medicine and Johns Hopkins University nondiscrimination policies now include gender identity and gender expression.
        We promote culturally competent care for every person we are privileged to treat. We engage in an array of activities to facilitate that aim, including training our staff members, faculty members and students in issues related to LGBT health and improving our capacity to deliver an extraordinary experience for every patient.
        We have expanded our healthcare benefits to cover transgender health services, including surgical procedures.
        All six Johns Hopkins member hospitals achieved recognition from the Human Rights Campaign Foundation’s 2016 Healthcare Equality Index, a national survey promoting equitable and inclusive policies in health care.
        Johns Hopkins Children’s Center physicians helped lead an American Academy of Pediatrics committee that authored the 2013 policy statement that supports access to clinically and culturally competent health care for all LGBT and questioning youth.
        In the past year, two Johns Hopkins Medicine task forces on LGBT health care have been charged with developing new paths for our institutions to further approaches to evidence-based, patient-centered care for LGBT individuals.
        The Johns Hopkins Hospital will join a growing number of leading academic medical centers this fall in offering gender-affirming therapies for transgender patients, including sex reassignment surgery and hormonal treatment as part of a range of support options available.
        Johns Hopkins is proud to once again support our employees who are participating in Baltimore’s Pride Parade on July 23. More information is available via the intranet for those who would like to help represent Johns Hopkins Medicine at this event as we show our support for our LGBT friends, family members, patients and colleagues.

        We are grateful to you for helping make Johns Hopkins a better place.

        Sincerely,

        Paul B. Rothman, M.D.
        Dean of the Medical Faculty
        CEO, Johns Hopkins Medicine

        Ronald R. Peterson
        President, The Johns Hopkins Health System
        EVP, Johns Hopkins Medicine

        • No where in that letter does it refute the study. Don’t know what you’re trying to say.

          • Mara Glubka

            I’m showing that it’s wrong to call this a ‘Johns Hopkins’ study when Hopkins doesn’t even come close to subscribing to the methods and conclusions of McHugh and Mayer. They are discredited and debunked by everyone except those with a right-wing Christian agenda.

          • pand ne mo nium

            And you have evidence that this is not a John Hopkins study apart from your own opinion?

          • Mara Glubka

            It’s a study done by old Christian guys who USED to be with Johns Hopkins. It’s not a study done on behalf of Johns Hopkins. Is this a difficult concept for you?

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Thanks for proving Dr. Brown’s point!!!

          • If you follow the link to the study, the author, who I believe is Dr. Mayer of the two study leaders, says: “I gratefully acknowledge the support of Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg School of Public Health and School of Medicine, Arizona State University, and the Mayo Clinic.”

            So i don’t know what you’re talking about. He also says the following:
            “In the course of writing this report, I consulted a number of individuals who asked that I not thank them by name. Some feared an angry response from the more militant elements of the LGBT community; others feared an angry response from the more strident elements of religiously conservative communities. Most bothersome, however, is that some feared reprisals from their own universities for engaging such controversial topics, regardless of the report’s content — a sad statement about academic freedom.”

            Sounds like you’re part of the “more militant elements of the LGBT community.”

          • Mara Glubka

            “I gratefully acknowledge the support of Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg School of Public Health and School of Medicine, Arizona State University, and the Mayo Clinic.”

            Each of these institutions have LGBTQ policies that are 180 degrees from McHugh and Mayer. He’s just saying thank you for letting him twist their years of research for the hateful, right-wing fundamentalist, anti-LGBTQ, Christian agenda. C’mon, anyone can see that.

          • And like I said earlier, the institution in no way refutes the study. The study speaks for itself!! The institution leads one to say that the study was not performed by some fly-by-night outfit but by some people with credentials. The institution can do whatever it wants – and of course they will take the politically correct approach – but the scientist associated with it are legit. The study speaks for itself!!

          • Mara Glubka

            Yes, of course. They only do things because they’re politically correct. Not because they’re the right and compassionate thing to do. the ‘study’ speaks for itself alright. It sure doesn’t speak for Johns Hopkins, the Bloomberg school, AZ State or the Mayo Clinic. AT. ALL. It stands ALL BY ITSELF as Christian propaganda.

          • “Hateful?” “Bigots?” Oh you lose the argument on the facts and all of a sudden you start calling names. Shame on you,. You have no credibility.

          • Kim Hudlet

            If the name fits……

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            “It stands ALL BY ITSELF”. Wrong again. It stands with 200+ Peer Reviews. I know that’s a tough pill to swallow but your ignoring it just goes to show your hateful God-hating propaganda from a tiny group of heavily-biased bigots.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Except that it doesnt…..Manny, have you read ANY of the credible studies cited? If you have, do you have the educational background to understand what you are reading?

          • pand ne mo nium

            And in case you had not noticed, the truth is always rejected by those who have a fundamentalist left wing socialist agenda.

          • Mara Glubka

            No, only ignorant hate is rejected.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Yup. Yours!

          • pand ne mo nium

            True, that is why we reject your ignorant hate.

          • Kim Hudlet

            Or, if you open your mind and teaching to the Holy Spirit, truth can be revealed to you. When did you last lay this hatred on the altar and prayerfully ask God to lift it?

          • pand ne mo nium

            S Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z

          • Barbi

            I admit that the Christians have been as snippy on here with the opposition as you women. That’s not my style. It really isn’t hatred that Christians feel toward LGT’s –(although it would be tempting to hate the gay who molests your kid or seduces him into the life) –which is why parents have to be diligent and vigilant.

            Truth is what the Bible says in its entirety –not one verse here or there out of context –or even out of cultural context. The fact is, you cannot whitewash or normalize sodomy –or make it healthy and safe. It only feels good like cocaine (apparently –I have 2 women friends who kicked men to the curb for attempting it on them. ) The woman is the perfect complement to man –the completer –his other half –and both made in the image of God –and Jesus affirms this as Divine plan for marriage –leaving and cleaving, male with female.

          • pand ne mo nium

            What hatred? The one you invent when you have nothing intelligent to say which is most of the time?

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          Proverbs 14:12. One day you’ll come to realize it doesn’t matter one iota what you or any other man or institution says. The ONLY thing that matters is what God has said. There’s a day coming when that will be crystal clear to you.

      • Kim Hudlet

        The studies he intentionally misquotes……are you not getting this? Nobody is so stupid that they could possibly misunder stand very clear statemen’s by the authors. He hasn’t been at Johns Hopkins for years and they have distance themselves as much as possible from his nonsense.

    • pand ne mo nium

      And may I say Kate that anyone that does not believe credible evidence that is the truth is either delusional or wilfully ignorant.

      • Mara Glubka

        You still believe that there’s credible evidence that cigarettes are good for you, don’t you? Be careful out there, don’t want you to fall off the edge of the earth, Mr. anonymous coward.

        • pand ne mo nium

          Do I? Be careful out there Mrs. anonymous up the creek without a paddle.

          • Mara Glubka

            I’m not being anonymous, you are. This my name and the pic is from July. You righties always go anonymous because those of you with jobs would get canned for the crap you say online if you were flushed out.

          • pand ne mo nium

            X Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z

          • Kim Hudlet

            And the world is stIill flat for you. .. so much fear for you. I’m so sorry….this must be a terrifying existence for you….

          • pand ne mo nium

            S Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z

      • Kim Hudlet

        At least you recognize your willful ignorance. Read the studies quoted, see the misrepresentation and outright lies about the studies findings……it doesn’t take long to see the lies in McHugh’s writing. Better yet, stop pretending to have an educaton in Theology or Psychology. The truth will set you free……

        • pand ne mo nium

          A Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z

        • pand ne mo nium

          I can’t recognise something that doesn’t exist.

    • Royce E. Van Blaricome

      That is the funniest thing I’ve read on here yet!! LOL THAT is the epitome of what Jesus would call a Giant Sequoia Tree sticking outta your eye socket!! LOL

      Btw, you can “unequivocally say” anything you want, all day long, until the cows come home. Only problem is that it doesn’t matter how emphatic your “unequivocal” statement is, you simply have already discredited yourself. You’re living a lie and you propose to speak about lies? LOL You have NO clue what Christianity is and yet you think you can speak to it? LOL I just love it when the spiritually-dead think they can define Christianity!! LOL

      You did state one truth however. “Anyone who believes this tripe is either delusional or just willfully ignorant!” Too bad you don’t understand that applies to the person looking back at you in the mirror!

      “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be KNOWN about God is PLAIN to them, BECAUSE God has SHOWN it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been CLEARLY perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are WITHOUT EXCUSE. For although they KNEW God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools (Rom 1:18-22)

    • Barbi

      Where is your scientific evidence that the article is merely Christianity passed off as scientific knowledge? The men compiled the research data from various studies and found no evidence of genetic or hormonal cause of LGT conditions or any improvement in gender dysphoria from transition surgeries and hormones. In fact, a higher suicide rate. One study is reported by the CDC –about high school boys who do homosexual activities ALSO doing illicit drugs at much higher percentage than heteros. It’s a miserable lifestyle and self-image that includes drug use. Nothing good about sodomy –or about trying to be the gender you are not, “Kate.”
      Gender dysphoria really IS confusion and delusion that probably starts in early childhood. I read about a boy who, at 2, was fascinated by Brittany Spears in a performance with a flowing gown–he LOVED the image –and so his parents played it for him over and over. Then they admitted him to school as a girl –asking the school to accommodate his delusion–and the school tried to TEACH all the kids that they could be boys or girls –and parents pulled their kids –and the school backed down and decided to let the families OPT their kids out of this new kind of sex ed for elementary schools –and the parents of little “Brittany” are now suing the school for letting kids opt out of this gender sexploration curriculum.

  • pand ne mo nium

    It is standard for those who have bought into the lie of homosexuality and as a result have to defend it all costs even in the face of credible evidence to rubbish all and everything that sets out the truth. Because homosexuality is founded on a lie, lying becomes the modus operandi for those who try to defend it. They have no choice as to admit to the truth means that the foundation of their whole being is undermined and their arguments do not have a leg to stand on.

    The depth of denial is indicative of the person’s emotional need. The more denial in the face of obvious truth shows that they are threatened by it as it unravels their way of life and everything they have believed is shown to be a SHAM.

    Therefore they have an automatic knee jerk reaction of denial without stopping for one moment to ask themselves “could this be true?” and thus doing themselves a favour.

    They really shot themselves in the foot when they pronounced that you are born homosexual because it put them in a prison of denial that was impossible to get out of. There must be thousands of homosexuals out there who are desperate to extricate themselves from such a soul destroying way of life but they can’t because they have been told once a homosexual always a homosexual because that is what you are born as.

    Each day, a little bit of them dies as they live a lie which they know is not true. We have to be thankful that the ministries that offer genuine help to get rid of their unwanted same sex attraction are working overtime to offer the freedom that Jesus brings to all life controlling problems. When we know that Jesus said he was the way, the TRUTH and the life, what the homosexual movement claims is irrelevant.

    • Kim Hudlet

      Riiiiiiiight……..except for science and actual biblical truth.

      • pand ne mo nium

        Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z

    • Mara Glubka

      Go to the light.

      • pand ne mo nium

        I did many years ago when I realised that when Jesus said he was the light of the world he was telling the truth so I went to him.

        • Kim Hudlet

          I think she may have meant that more literally…..

          • pand ne mo nium

            Who is “SHE”….?

        • Kim Hudlet

          And yet you live in a hateful dark place with no knowlege understanding, or grace. We will continue to pray for you in your pain.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Actually Jesus said it is you who lives in a hateful dark place with no knowledge, understanding, or grace. See John 3:19-20. I hope you and Mara surrender your lives as a slave to the Lord Jesus Christ while there is yet time. Eternity is an awful long time to spend in torment for your rebellion.

          • Mara Glubka

            Oh yeah. Slavery. What a wonderful sales pitch. I mean who wouldn’t want to be a slave? Yikes.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            You’re absolutely right! Who wouldn’t wanna be a slave to the Lord Jesus Christ?! Without even knowing it, in your mockery, you ask a great question. Too bad you don’t understand that everybody is a slave to somebody or something. I’m a slave to Jesus Christ. You’re a slave to your own sin and Satan.

          • Mara Glubka

            Royce E. Coyote, super genius.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            I guess you answered my previous question for us all to see. Oh btw, you didn’t even have to click on my avatar as my name appears right next to yours when you reply. Duh!! Hope you get that help you need.

          • pand ne mo nium

            Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z

    • Kim Hudlet

      Back to the pseudo science of a flat earth because that’s what the curch insisted for centuries…..we will continue to pray for you.

      • pand ne mo nium

        NON SEQUITUR

      • Royce E. Van Blaricome

        Who are you praying to? I suggest you read Proverbs 28:9. I’ll pray the Holy Spirit illuminate your mind to understand it.

        • Mara Glubka

          I suggest that free yourself from myth.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            I suggest you figure out that the myth is your mistaken believe that you are your own god. You WILL stand before that “myth” one day and on that day you will have NO doubt just how real He is!!

          • Mara Glubka

            Yeah, well I think that HE is just an excuse to abandon critical thinking.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Actually, if you had any critical thinking skills whatsoever you’d be a Believer.

          • Mara Glubka

            I’ll go with Albert Einstein on this one.
            “The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.”

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            And you’ll go with him to Eternal torment in the Lake of Fire too. Brilliant.

            I’ll stick with God “There is a way which seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death. (Prov. 14:12)

          • Mara Glubka

            If you must go to HIM, go as a child, not as a blind infant.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Ah, I see. So now you do acknowledge that HE exists. Knew it all along but thank you for finally admitting it. As for the rest, you’re really not in any place to be giving spiritual advice. If you were you’d know that sometimes one must first believe and then they can see. Nice attempt to put a twist on Scripture though.

          • Mara Glubka

            No, just being patronizing. I do know your myth backward and forward though. Grew up with it. I have 3 sons and I’m proud to tell you it ended with me.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            First, you don’t have a clue about God or Christianity. You’re a spiritually-dead, God-hating, God-mocking Unbeliever who wouldn’t know a thing if God didn’t allow it and you certainly don’t know a thing about God except for that which he has revealed. IF you did know, you’d know that. (Rom. 1 & 1st Cor. 2:14)

            Second, you would not have those sons if it were not for God. (Jer. 1:5, Psa. 139:13, Isa. 49:5) And it’s a pretty sorry excuse for a mother who proudly proclaim her attempt to condemn her sons to an Eternity of torment in the Lake of Fire. Way to go! Appreciate you showing the world your wonderful motherly skills and hatred for your own.

            Third, thankfully you aren’t omnipotent or omniscient and therefore have NO clue as to whether “it ended” with you. God has brought many the God-hater/God-mocker to surrender their lives to Him and so therefore you sons thankfully by the grace and mercy of God may still have a chance for eternal life.

            Who knows? Maybe God hasn’t given up on you yet either and you do as well. I pray that’s the case.

          • Mara Glubka

            No, I’m full of life and love. I don’t need myth and neither does anyone. Happy and free without it. You know what I find disturbing? How those of your ilk can tell someone that they’re spiritually dead, going to hell and you think it’s just some honest difference of opinion or that you feel religiously free to say such hateful things. All in the name of love. What a laugh-riot you are. And I don’t mock God, I mock people with religion-soaked brains. Someone has to tell you how wrong you are.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Only on the outside. Just like Jesus said. White-washed tomb full of dead man’s bones on the inside. Spiritually-dead and a rotten corpse. As for “love”, apart from God you don’t have a clue. You hate your children and actually take intentionally steps to damn them to eternal torment in the Lake of Fire!! How selfish. Not enough that you choose to go there but you try to push your kids toward the Fire too! Horrible!

            No surprise you don’t recognize Love and your ilk thinks the Truth is hateful. It’s all part of the deception and delusion. Yuck it up while you can. The day is coming when you’ll never laugh again. Can’t laugh when gnawing your tongue in anguish.

            And thanks for showing yourself of your father, Satan, who is the father of all lies. You have mocked God and you mock His children as well. Mock while you can and as long as God in His longsuffering patience, mercy, grace, and love allows you to. When that runs out you will never mock God again.

            Someone has to tell you how wrong you are.

          • pand ne mo nium

            I agree! No one needs myth. What they need is the truth that sets men free. That is in the bible by the way. That means christians don’t follow the myth of evolution and man being his own god.

            We follow the one true God who is the way, the truth and the life. You cannot get much better than that as that is life giving.

            It is those that reject God that follow myths, like evolution and when you die that is it.

          • pand ne mo nium

            Ha ha Mara. Your words show without a shadow of doubt that you have no idea what the so called myth teaches. The fact that you call it a myth is indicative of your lack of understanding and knowledge.

            Scholarship over the years both christian and secular has shown unequivocally, conclusively and without doubt that the bible is not a myth. I usually find that the people that call it a myth are in denial about reality of all kinds like they usually say everything came from nothing without any evidence to back them up.

            Now that IS a myth of the first order.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            As I said before, if you had any ability to exercise critical thinking, you’d be a Believer. There are several examples of folks, some even scholars, who set out to disprove God and became Believers.

          • pand ne mo nium

            If you are an example of critical thinking, Lord please deliver us.????

          • TruthvLIes

            I notice Mara, that you have avoided answering nearly every question that Terry has asked you. Probably because he has torn your wayward and ridiculous claims to shreds.

      • pand ne mo nium

        The flat Earth model is an archaic conception of the Earth’s shape as a plane or disk. Many ancient cultures subscribed to a flat Earth cosmography, including Greece until the classical period, the Bronze Age and Iron Age civilizations of the Near East until the Hellenistic period, India until the Gupta period (early centuries AD), and China until the 17th century. That paradigm was also typically held in the aboriginal cultures of the Americas, and the notion of a flat Earth domed by the firmament in the shape of an inverted bowl was common in pre-scientific societies.[1]

        Both Homer[13] and Hesiod[14] described a flat disc cosmography on the Shield of Achilles.[15][16] This poetic tradition of an earth-encircling (gaiaokhos) sea (Oceanus) and a flat disc also appears in Stasinus of Cyprus,[17] Mimnermus,[18] Aeschylus,[19] and Apollonius Rhodius.[20]
        Homer’s description of the flat disc cosmography on the shield of Achilles with the encircling ocean is repeated far later in Quintus Smyrnaeus’ Posthomerica (4th century AD), which continues the narration of the Trojan War.[21]

        Several pre-Socratic philosophers believed that the world was flat: Thales (c. 550 BC) according to several sources,[23] and Leucippus (c. 440 BC) and Democritus (c. 460 – 370 BC) according to Aristotle.[24][25][26]

        Hecataeus of Miletus believed the earth was flat and surrounded by water.[36] Herodotus in his Histories ridiculed the belief that water encircled the world,[37] yet most classicists agree he still believed the earth was flat because of his descriptions of literal “ends” or “edges” of the earth.[38]

        The view generally accepted by scholars of Augustine’s work is that he shared the common view of his contemporaries that the Earth is spherical,[66] in line with his endorsement of science in De Genesi ad litteram.[67]

        NOTE: NOT ONe COMMENT THAT SAYS THE CHURCH SUBSCRIBED TO THE FLAT EARTH IDEA.

        Obviously Kim does not let the truth get in the way of a good story.

    • Kim Hudlet

      Zzzzzzzxzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  • Dawn Cowell

    Hey pand ne mo nium I say you bought into the Lie of the pharisees and Wrong Theology that evangelicals and fundamentalist love to preach because they do not understand or accept others that are different. Let’s take a walk down memory lane when the church preached against inter racial marriage and when left handed people were thought to be evil both bad theology or when slavery was accepted in Biblical days basically since the majority of the population was doing it. Accepting and loving the lgbt population is what Jesus would do and if Jesus was on the earth today he would bake the cake and marry and bless same sex couples. Let’s start with God being the creator of everything and it was Good. Did you know there are over 1,500 species which display same sex relations? Just natural logic one must conclude that it is normal my friend. You most likely will want to bring up the OT so let’s begin with exegesis and hermeneutics looknig at what was going on in the culture at the time. In the OT there are tons of laws that now a days folks would chuckle at and even a huge amount of Christians do not follow since we are no longer under the law when we accept Christ atonement for our sins. Let me post an example:

    Dr. Laura and Leviticus

    Laura
    Schlessinger is a U.S. radio personality who dispenses advice to people
    who call in to her radio talk-show. Kind of like a radio version of Ann
    Landers I suppose, except Dr. Laura usually comes across as a little
    pompous and as a bit of a know-it-all most of the time. On one of her
    shows some discussion about homosexuality came up and she apparently
    lost it, went on a tear against it and started quoting the Bible on the
    air. She informed her listeners that homosexuality was an abomination
    according to Leviticus 18:22 and therefore cannot be condoned under any
    circumstance. Apparently some listener found it amusing that she based
    her opinions on the Bible’s Book of Leviticus since he was a religious
    scholar and considered it so very, very dated and mostly irrelevant to
    modern life and society. As a result he wrote this following open letter
    to Dr. Laura and posted it on the Internet for everyone to find and
    wonder about.

    I haven’t any opinions on the subject either way but I found his
    letter amusing so I copied it and put it here, in its original form, for
    you to read and enjoy as well…

    “Dear Dr. Laura:

    Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I
    have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that
    knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the
    homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus
    18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need
    some advice from you, however, regarding some of the laws and how to
    follow them.

    a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a
    pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors.
    They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

    b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in
    Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair
    price for her?

    c) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and
    female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend
    of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you
    clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?

    d) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus
    35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to
    kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

    e) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
    abomination – Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality.
    I don’t agree. Can you settle this? Are there ‘degrees’ of abomination?

    f) Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I
    have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses.
    Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

    g) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair
    around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by
    Lev.19:27. How should they die?

    h) I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes
    me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

    i) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two
    different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments
    made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also
    tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to
    all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them?
    (Lev.24:10-16). Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family
    affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

    j) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in
    her period of menstrual uncleanliness – Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is
    how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

    Dr. Laura, I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am
    confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word
    is eternal and unchanging.

    Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.”

    • pand ne mo nium

      Hey Dawn, you have bought into the lie that you know me better than I know myself.

      Of course Jesus would love homosexuals and he would tell them to go and sin no more.

      As the truth is always the opposite of what the homosexuals say, if he were here today he would not bake the cake. He would not marry same sex couples as he would not marry anyone.

      In the same vein there are not 1,500 animal species which display same sex relations. That is beat up invented by those trying to justify their ugh! If you knew what you were talking about which you don’t, the whole animal kingdom is predicated on survival of the fittest to be the king of the pack and that involves male/female sex. All animals fight to have the mastery over the females in the pack. I have not seen one single natural history programme or film that shows any animal fighting to have the mastery over their own sex and I have seen hundreds of them.

      And Dr Laura is not my source for biblical exegesis and for your information I am not a Jew and I don’t live under the Old Covenant. If I were you I would take time out to get educated about what the bible teaches for New Covenant Believers. On the whole, homosexuals don’t like those bits of the bible because it does not allow them to display pseudo authority on the teaching of scripture.

      • Mara Glubka

        And America GUARANTEES that if I don’t like your religion, I don’t have to be ruled by it. That’s precisely why the FIRST WORDS of the Bill of Rights are: “Congress shall make no laws respecting an establishment of religion”. It’s why God or Jesus are not mentioned AT ALL. Now, speaking just for me, I think ALL religion is weak-minded BS because it’s never about love and ALWAYS about fear and trying to force others to believe what you believe. No thanks. You nitwits always accuse others of having a far-left agenda, but it’s always and only you righties that are actually attempting to force your ways on others. Then you try to sell the ridiculous notion that by simply existing, LGBTQ people are trying to force something on you. It’s UN-AMERICAN.

        • And if we get legislation through related to our religion, you do have to abide by it. Just like we have to abide by the slaughter of the innocent unborn.

          • Kim Hudlet

            The good news being that most Christians actally have love in their hearts and aren’t terrified to find out the world isn’t flat, trusting that God invented the natural laws of this world and scienow is in keeping with any natural laws in place. When it’s not we run into a wall and go in a different direction. We do have treatment for those who claim the world is flat……

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Very true. At least the part about most Christians actually have love in their hearts. I hope you’ll surrender you life as a slave to the Lord Jesus Christ and get some! As for the science thing, yes God created natural lies. And Man has been trying since The Fall in his rebellion to prove God doesn’t exist. There is actually more evidence to prove God’s Word to be true and a literal 6-Day Creation than the lie of the billions of years and a Big Bang. At least for anyone who’s intellectually honest enough to do a real search for the truth.

          • Mara Glubka

            Slave to the LJC? Wow, Slave? Really? God created natural lies? Literal 6 day creation? OK, thanks. Got it. Don’t play with anything sharp now?

          • Barbi

            Mara, I don’t know if it was 6 24-hour days –but the God who raised the dead by saying “Lazarus, come forth!” Who healed the lame, the blind, 10 lepers –and many others –with merely a word or a touch –that GOD can DO ANYTHING –even produce all the diversity of life in 6 days. He speaks –and it happens! We can speak to a computer and a complete image or page can come up –instantly. We do amazing things, miraculous things with stored knowledge in computer programs and chips. Surely, the God of the universe can do anything –without Darwin’s slow, random process lacking a designer.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Barbi, see Exodus 16:26, then 20:8-11 & 31:15-17. That should help you know for sure and certain. And again, good comments!

          • Mara Glubka

            Yeah, not only do you NOT know if it was 6 -24 hour periods, you, or anyone else CAN’t claim to know something which is unknowable. Namely, whether God exists or what, if anything, happens after death. You don’t know. I don’t know. the difference between you and me is that you feel a need to know and I don’t. Not only do I not need to know something that I can’t, I enjoy not knowing. And I experience love, joy and beauty in abundance. Don’t need to land on any particular fairy tale because I’m too scared of the unknown. Religion has has done far more harm than good throughout history and it’s time to grow up.

          • Barbi

            According to the Bible, “The fool has said in his heart, ‘There is no God.'”

            Yes, I WANT to believe that the Good News of Christ’s death for my sins and His resurrection from the dead are true. And it’s rational to believe in the Resurrection–because Christianity would not have gotten off the ground had the ordinary men, the disciples, not been emboldened by the risen Jesus. John and Peter bravely enter Jerusalem –after they’ve been with the risen Christ –and they heal a man lame from birth–and the city is amazed. And they preach the resurrection of Christ –that He is the promised one –and the Bible says about 5000 converted that day to faith in Jesus.

            Then Saul of Tarsus, roman citizen, educated Jew, encounters the Christ as blinding light and voice on the Road to Damascus. (Both of those cities still exist, you know.) And he is transformed to become the foremost missionary of the Early Church, taking the Gospel to Rome and Athens –where he preaches about the statue “to the unknown God.” And he writes to the Romans about same sex sin being a result of idolatry. We noticed when my kids were in high school that they had some gay friends in music theater circles –and they were idolizing Madonna. Now my daughter has a probably gay student who is into idolizing Christine Aguilerra. And I read of a little boy, age 2, who admired Brittany Spears so much that they played her performances for him over and over –and by age 5 he wanted to be like her –a girl. They probably thought they were just encouraging a baby crush on the star –but he wanted to be LIKE the star. “worship of creature more than Creator” and “exchange of truth about God for a lie.”

          • pand ne mo nium

            Done more harm than good?????

            So the Amish who forgave the two men that murdered five of their daughters did more harm than good?

            The American couple who gave up their life of plenty and went to Mozambique and built orphanages for those living on the streets because both parents had died of AIDS did more harm than good?

            Then there’s Mother Teresa who spent all her waking moments seeing to the needs of the poor in Calcutta. Doing more harm than good eh???

            And what about the English family who went to Borneo and spent 24 years translating the scriptures into the local native language and taught what was in the bible and as a result they gave up fighting each other preferring to live in peace. Doing more harm than good eh???

            Then there’s the the church in West, Texas that was pivotal in providing help when the fertiliser plant blew up and destroyed the town. They did more harm than good according to you.

            Or the churches that went out every night onto the streets of Los Angeles with soup kitchens to feed the homeless. Doing more harm than good?

            Not to mention all the things that the Salvation Army do to make life better for those less well off. I guess you believe that is doing more harm than good.

            That will do for now but I have hundreds more examples like these where the church is doing more harm than good according to you.

            You should listen to yourself sometimes. You might be able to face reality if you do.

          • pand ne mo nium

            And you don’t know that it wasn’t six 24 hour periods.

          • Terry Lewis

            Mara, I’m not coming to you in hostility, and I think that some of the comments above by those who claim Christ are outside of Christian decorum. We do no one any good by professing to follow Christ and then behaving as if we’ve never met Him. It seems that the conversation has turned a bit personal. I have no personal stake in the conversation, so please accept my comments in the spirit in which they’re given.

            You obviously feel strongly about several moral issues. I agree with some of your positions… on others I disagree. How shall we decide which of us is “right” unless there is a standard of “rightness”? As you reject the idea of God, how do you judge what is harmful and what is good?

            Quite frankly (and no offense intended), I see no reason to think that you or anyone else is more qualified than any other human to determine what is and what is not good in the absense of some objective way to measure it. And if there is no objective standard, then in what way does “good” actually exist? Is what is good simply what one prefers? And if so, why should society prefer any one person or group’s preferences over another person or groups?

            You see, all laws legislate morality. The question is, “whose”? We all (hopefully) believe that a line should be drawn somewhere. I doubt seriously that you would approve of laws permitting fathers to marry their daughters, but why do we draw the line there and not at the law prohibiting same-sex marriage? What standard shall we use, and why?

            You say that “People that preach their religious beliefs are impossible to have a an intellectual conversation with.” I challenge that generalization, and I also reject that it applies to all non-believers as well. I’ve asked you an honest and transparent question; will you do me the honor of submitting a civil, honest, and transparent response? Let’s have that intellectual conversation, in civility and openness, and prove that those on opposite sides of an issue can, in fact, have a dialog without it devolving into a verbal sparring match.

          • Mara Glubka

            The standard that I use is that ALL are equal and have the unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. ALL. Not everyone except LGBTQ people. I favor respecting individual freedom and equality above all and when there is disagreement, those things are paramount for me and I will always vote for laws that favor individual rights over rights asserted in the name of ‘religious freedom’.

            I do not reject the idea of God. I reject claiming to know something that is unknowable. It is true, that as a society, we must decide where to draw the line when it comes to marriage. I’m for one overriding principle when it comes to marriage – equality. Why? See my first sentence. Laws do not, in my view, legislate morality, they govern behavior. We are all governed by the laws of our country. Not true when it comes to religious beliefs. There are many different interpretations of every religion and I believe that simply because this is true, we have to keep church and state separate. As a Christian, I’m guessing that you do not want to be governed by Sharia Law. A Buddhist may not want to be governed by Christian law.

            I strongly believe that if we become a theocracy, there is a very real danger that we will become extinct. Armageddon would be virtually assured. I think that if we’re to survive as a species, abandoning myth and its accompanying need to impose it on others is required. That’s how I see it, anyway. There is a universal truth. It may or may not include a personal God. As Shakespeare said “There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy”. I like science. It always admits when it’s wrong and it fills me with wonder. Religion only covers the latter.

            You asked if good was simply what one prefers. No. Good for me, in this land, in this time, is making paramount and protecting an individual’s unalienable rights. And let me define some bad for you in my eyes. Allowing ANY form of discrimination in the the name of ‘religious freedom’. To wave one’s holy book and assert that we must ignore scientific consensus in the name of adherence to some parts of Leviticus, but not others, is an outrage to me. So many admonishments of the Bible are ignored yet the old ‘a man shall not lay with another man as with a woman’ sticks with fervor. I ask you, why precisely is THAT? What about selling your daughter or keeping slaves? Human sacrifice? We outgrew that stuff. Why can’t we grow up about human sexuality?

            I have my own answer, but you first.

          • Terry Lewis

            Thank you, Mara, for your honest response. I will answer your questions, but I also would like to clarify some parts of your answer. Forgive me if I mis-characterize any of your positions; I’m will do my best to fairly represent your opinions. Apologies for the length… I’m actually trying to be concise! These are complex topics, and I’d rather be verbose than unclear.

            You say, “I’m for one overriding principle when it comes to marriage – equality”, referring back to, “The standard that I use is that ALL are equal and have the unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. ALL. Not everyone xcept LGBTQ people.”

            Why did you leave out the “I’s”? Are people in incestuous relationships not deserving of the same right to happiness? Nothing in your logic excludes them, nor does the standard you profess. (Which isn’t by the way, a complete moral standard… it’s just a statement that all should hold and be held to the same moral standard. This is important, and that IS a PART of the standard, but it doesn’t help us decide where to draw the lines.)

            The debate isn’t about equal people, but about equal behavior. No person, gay, straight, or trans, has the right to murder someone else. The law applies equally to all of them, irrespective of their desires. They may have a strong, intense desire to murder someone. They might even say that their happiness depends on that person’s death. That does not give them the right (nor should it) to kill their enemy. Strong, intense desire is proper justification for neither morality nor legality.

            Some think that before SCOTUS created a right to same-sex marriage that homosexuals were treated unequally to hetrosexuals. This isn’t true. They had the same rights as anyone; the right to marry any unmarried person of the opposite sex that was of age and not a close relation. Their desire for something outside of the law does not mean that the law was not applied equally.

            So where is the difference? I suppose you would say that homosexuals should have the right to marry the person they love, just like heterosexuals. But “love” has little to do with it. Should a pedophile be allowed to marry a 6 year old girl because they claim to be “in love”? What of the man who practices incest and insists that his happiness is dependant on his being allowed to marry his daughter. Or son? And how is this not, “simply what one prefers”?

            You say that “To wave one’s holy book and assert that we must ignore scientific consensus… is an outrage to me.”, so perhaps you would object to incestuous marriage on medical grounds. But this is just as easily CORRECTED by science, right? If an incestuous couple agrees to sterilization, then the birth-defect issue vanishes. If the thought of forced sterilization seems abhorrent, then consider an incestuous homosexual relationship that cannot bear children naturally. Should we allow homosexual siblings to marry, but not heterosexual siblings?

            (Apologies to all of the “P’s” (Polygamists) that I’ve left out!) And I don’t mean that to be sarcastic… just to point out that your standard, which is based on a person’s desires, cannot exclude anything… which makes marriage absolutely meaningless!

            Now, to answer a few of your questions, and address a few comments:

            You said, “As a Christian,… you do not want to be governed by Sharia Law….”

            Does Sharia law truthfully reflect how we ought to live? If so, then sign me up! Likewise, I want to live by Christian principles IF AND ONLY IF those principles accurately reflect how we ought to live. I don’t believe the Bible is true because I am a Christian; I’m a Christian because I believe the Bible is true.

            So, I do NOT quote Leviticus, but Romans. The laws in Leviticus were given to ancient Israel under the theocracy, not to the modern-day United States. I don’t follow the laws of the UK; they do not apply to me. Neither do the laws of ancient Egypt. And neither do the laws of ancient Israel. Those laws were, as you said, “Good for [them], in [that] land, in [that] time…” And while the way in which the laws were enforced and punished have changed, the principles behind them have not.

            I’ve seen the concept of being a “slave” to God disparaged in this thread, but what that means is, men should govern themselves according to these timeless principles of God (love the Lord with all their heart, mind, soul and strength, and your neighbor as yourself). If Christianity is true, and all men voluntarily became servants/slaves of God, very little human government would be necessary. That’s why our founders established a limited government, yet declared that it was only sufficient for a moral people. As the morality of the population declines, more and more government intrusion is required to maintain decency, law, and order.

            While I believe our laws should reflect TRUE morality, we waste a lot of time trying to change the laws rather than trying to change men’s hearts so that they need no law. In other words, we shouldn’t NEED a law against murder. If all men lived according to the Christian principles, no anti-murder laws would be required, because no men would murder. We need laws because men sin; but those laws should be grounded in bedrock truth, not our childish desires to do what is right in our own eyes.

            You said, “So many admonishments of the Bible are ignored…”

            And sadly, you’re right! We Christians often want to bash the homosexual or the trans-gendered, while lusting after our neighbor’s wife! Our sin is just as bad as theirs (and occasionally, worse, because we feel superior to “those” people), yet we ignore the plank in our own eye while mocking our brother with a grain of sawdust in his eye. All I can tell you is, thank God I’m not trusting in my own righteousness to get me to Heaven. We all have sinned… that’s why we need a savior. But His mercy toward me is no reason for me to live sinfully.

            So, “why can’t we grow up about human sexuality?”

            Being grown-up means that we do what is right, often in opposition to what we desire. It is the child that demands that his every whim be instantly satisfied. Grownups should know better than to chase after every desire, because not all desires are wise. And it is neither unfair nor unloving to tell a child that they cannot have everything that they desire.

            “Rightness”, “fairness”, “equality”, all of these are wonderful words… that are meaningless without an absolute standard to ground them. You seem to think that such a standard exists (“There is a universal truth.”), and you say, “I reject claiming to know something that is unknowable.” Therefore, it seems that you must know what the moral standard is; otherwise, how can you possibly know which side of the line LGBTQIP behavior falls on? Can you please elaborate a bit?

            Regards,

            -tl

          • Mara Glubka

            Sorry, but you lost me at “why did you leave out the ‘I’s?”

          • Terry Lewis

            >>”why did you leave out the ‘I’s?”

            I apologize for any confusion. Ok… let me break it down step by step. You said,

            “The standard that I use is that ALL are equal and have the unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. ALL. Not everyone except LGBTQ people.”

            I had asked you earlier about incestuous relationships. You did not say whether or not you would approve of incestuous marriages, but you did say that, “It is true, that as a society, we must decide where to draw the line when it comes to marriage.”

            I’m trying to decide just where we should draw the line you said should be drawn based on the standard that you described. That’s what this entire discussion is about. But I contend that, by the standard you gave above, you cannot draw the line anywhere.

            The “I”’s I mentioned are those who desire “I”ncestuous relationships. The “P”’s are polygamists. You could include those who practice “B”eastiality, or “N”ecrophilia as well. If the only standard we have to go on a belief that a) they are all equal, and b) they have unalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, then I see nothing in that standard that could deny any of these persons the right to marry a sister, 4 women, their pet aardvark, or their dead neighbor.

            Sound ludicrous? It does to me. But I’m using the standard you gave. If I’ve misinterpreted you, please correct me.

            So when I say, “why did you leave out the ‘I’s?”, I’m asking why you “limited” your statement to LGBTQ. Why not LGBTQIPBN? “All” means “ALL”, right?

            But you do say that a line should be drawn. Do you know how to decide where to draw it? You said, related to the existence of God, “”I reject claiming to know something that is unknowable.” If your moral standard does not address where to draw such a line, then such information is, by definition, unknowable by you. Then, based on your statement re: God’s existence, you should reject claiming to know where to draw the line.

            But you make statements like, “[L]et me define some bad for you in my eyes. Allowing ANY form of discrimination in the the name of ‘religious freedom’.”

            Let’s evaluate this statement by your own standard. Does “ALL” not also include Christians with a sincere belief in the moral principles as taught by the Bible, who think that it is an abomination for a man to lie with a man, and that it is a sin against your own body to sleep with a person to whom you are not married? Have they no right to pursue happiness by seeking to warn other of their sinful ways? Have they no right to refuse to participate in the celebration of something they find aberrant and abhorrent?

            Perhaps these are the “R”’s… the “R”religious people. What part of your standard (as defined above) would deny them their own pursuit of happiness? Now we’re up to “LGBTQIPBNR”!

            All laws, moral or civil, discriminate. But I think we need something a bit more explanatory than the standard you give above. Can you elaborate a bit more on how you decide where this line should be drawn?

            Does this help?

          • Mara Glubka

            No. Does it help you?

            “Does “ALL” not also include Christians with a sincere belief in the moral principles as taught by the Bible, who think that it is an abomination for a man to lie with a man, and that it is a sin against your own body to sleep with a person to whom you are not married?”

            Go ahead and sincerely believe anything you want, just back off from this notion that you must impose it on others. When your sincerely held belief sincerely screws with others, then hell no, it MUST not.

            “Have they no right to pursue happiness by seeking to warn other of their sinful ways?”

            Not if doing so infringes on one’s unalienable rights.

            “Have they no right to refuse to participate in the celebration of something they find aberrant and abhorrent?”

            I’m thinking that you’re talking about taking an order for a wedding cake here. Providing a service equally to all citizens in a public business is not being forced to celebrate anything, it’s law enforcement.

            Now, I imagine another long, convoluted, Biblical response/query is in the offing, but why bother? Why don’t you just tell me I’m going to burn for all eternity like a good Christian and leave it at that?

          • Terry Lewis

            “No. Does it help you?”

            If you’re sincere and not just being a bit snide here, then please ask specific questions. I’ll be happy to clarify what I can.

            You ask, “Why don’t you just tell me I’m going to burn for all eternity like a good Christian and leave it at that?”

            Mara, I’m not here to condemn you, and if you think that such a declaration comes from “good” Christians, then you have no idea what true Christianity is all about. Yes, I believe that without Christ, we are ALL without hope, but it is not my place to judge you. I’m not interested in judging you; I’m here to have a discussion about the topic of this article and to learn why you hold the positions you do. Nothing more; nothing less.

            You say, “Go ahead and sincerely believe anything you want, just back off from this notion that you must impose it on others. When your sincerely held belief sincerely screws with others, then hell no, it MUST not.”

            Then does that apply to the Supreme Court justices who imposed homosexual marriage on states whose voters had explicitly voted to disallow it? Or is it only the religiously-minded person who has an obligation not to impose their beliefs on others?

            “I’m thinking that you’re talking about taking an order for a wedding cake here. Providing a service equally to all citizens in a public business is not being forced to celebrate anything, it’s law enforcement.”

            I’m not sure I understand. We have a law… a constitutional amendment in fact, that guarantees the freedom of expression of one’s religion. Do you not believe that refusing to provide a service in violation of your religious beliefs is an expression of that religion? Do you believe that a gay baker should be forced to bake a cake for a Westboro Baptist Church anti-homosexuality rally? Must a Jew bake a cake for neo-Nazis? I have no love for WBC’s positions and actions; they are the antithesis of all that Christianity stands for. But neither do I believe that they should be allowed to force someone to provide them a service against their conscience. You yourself said, “Go ahead and sincerely believe anything you want, just back off from this notion that you must impose it on others.” Why does this seem to work in only one direction?

            “Now, I imagine another long, convoluted, Biblical response/query is in the offing…”

            I realize that my posts are quite long, but I don’t think the logic of my arguments and questions is that convoluted. And while I am a Christian, I don’t think I’ve quoted from the Bible at all. My questions and answers have all been based on logic and reason, not scripture.

            I didn’t start this conversation so I could “bash an unbeliever”; I have no interest in doing anything of the sort. But I’m sincerely interested in the ethical theories held by those who do not hold a theistic worldview. My questions are serious. I truly want to learn how you think, and how you reach the conclusions you do. I’m not interested in putting you down, or being rude or condescending. That’s why I wrote this in the very first post:

            “You say that ‘People that preach their religious beliefs are impossible to have a an intellectual conversation with.’ I challenge that generalization, and I also reject that it applies to all non-believers as well. I’ve asked you an honest and transparent question; will you do me the honor of submitting a civil, honest, and transparent response? Let’s have that intellectual conversation, in civility and openness, and prove that those on opposite sides of an issue can, in fact, have a dialog without it devolving into a verbal sparring match.”

            I’m still open to such a discussion, if you are.

          • Terry Lewis

            Hello, Mara!

            It’s been four days since I last heard from you. I hope you haven’t chosen to abandon the conversation. I’ve tried very hard to be a Christian with whom you could have an “intellectual conversation” as you put it, and it would be a shame for it to end before it even gets underway.

            For you see, you really haven’t answered many of my questions at all. For convenience, let me restate what I feel are two of the core questions:

            1. You say, “It is true, that as a society, we must decide where to draw the line when it comes to [what types of] marriage [are acceptable].” (Forgive me if my insertions do not reflect your intent… this was the topic of the paragraph from which I pulled your quote.)How do you, and how should we as a society decide where to draw that line? What standard defines which relationships are valid candidates for marriage, and which do not? How did you decide that this standard was the correct standard?

            2. You say, “I favor respecting individual freedom and equality above all and when there is disagreement, those things are paramount for me… Good for me, in this land, in this time, is making paramount and protecting an individual’s unalienable rights.” How far does this extend? Do you respect a biological man’s individual freedom to rape a child? If not, then do you support the right of the same man to undress in front of a biologically-female child… so long as he does not touch her, perhaps? Can he watch her undress so long as he doesn’t touch her? Where do you draw the line… and why?Has the child no right to choose not to be exposed to this man’s behavior? Or is it acceptable for him to impose his will on her because the belief is not religiously based?

            There are other unanswered questions above, but I think these are the most important.

            I’d sincerely like to know your answers to (or if you cannot answer, then your thoughts about) these questions, whether you agree with my positions or not. Help me to understand where you’re coming from. Shouldn’t that be why we’re here on Disqus… to understand each other better? Surely that is a better use of this site than juvenile put-downs and condemnation!

            Respectfully,

            Terry

          • Mara Glubka

            “How do you, and how should we as a society decide where to draw that line?”
            I draw the line at two adults who want to marry each other. Society, if it is committed to equality has to provide that at minimum or equality doesn’t exist.

            “What standard defines which relationships are valid candidates for marriage, and which do not?”
            I wouldn’t use a relationship standard, I would use an individual civil rights standard. (equality again)

            “How did you decide that this standard was the correct standard?”
            Through critical and compassionate thought free of religious dogma.

            “How far does this extend?”
            Well, I’d like to see the unalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness be honored for all human beings. As I said before, I believe these rights to be paramount for everyone. In the public square, this requires people of goodwill to honor each other’s dignity above all else. Separation of church and state… “Congress shall make no law respecting and establishment of religion”. To me, this serves as the guiding principle for the “or prohibiting the free excercise thereof” part.

            I believe that our differences are two-fold. The first difference is related to the belief that human sexuality is fixed at or by birth. I say that it is innate and variable and that it is certainly no threat to the survival of the human species for us to evolve beyond suppression of these things through religious patriarchy. The second difference is over the interpretation of the 1st amendment. I believe it says you can worship however you want, but you can’t step on anyone else with it. You seen to think that freedom to worship is the overriding principle and that it gives some dominion over others. I say no. Emphatically.

          • Terry Lewis

            Hi, Mara!

            Thanks for your answers. You did get a bit more into the heart of your reasoning, and I appreciate it.

            I took the liberty of trying to summarize your ethical theory into some concise statements. Let me know how I did, and by all means (since I’m trying to capture your view) feel free to suggest additions, changes, etc.:

            1. Individuals should be free to pursue their own happiness.

            2. Individuals do NOT have the right to interfere with another individual’s pursuit of happiness.

            3. The above should be applied to all individuals equally, irrespective of race, religion, etc. (No one is “more equal” than another.)

            4. Some exceptions to point 3 might be made due to age. (You said that marriage should include “adults”, and excluded children.)

            Assuming that this accurately reflects your views, let’s examine what this ethical theory would mean. First, let’s look at some other moral issues>

            A. Murder on this theory is bad because it prevents someone else from living and accomplishing what they desire.

            B. Theft is bad beause it takes away something that makes someone else happy. (My cousin just had a truck stolen; I can attest to the truth of this statement.)

            C. Rape is bad because one party is unwilling.

            So far, I agree with all of these, although I think there are deeper truths than this theory permits. Still, I wouldn’t argue that any of these could be justified on your view.

            So let’s look at the issue on the table. Because homosexual relationships are not the same as homosexual marriage, let’s address them separately.

            D. Homosexual relationships (on this theory) are permissible (at least, not “bad” in the sense that they violate any of the 4 points) so long as the two (or more) persons involved are consenting adults.

            E. Attempts to prevent one from engaging in homosexual activity would be bad. (Violation of point 2.)

            I don’t think you would disagree with any of the conclusions I’ve drawn from the 4 points so far. Here is where I think you are being inconsistent.

            F. Homosexual marriage is potentially bad because marriage not only affects the two persons being married, but involves society as a whole. Marriage requires recognition and acknowledgement by society of a relationship. The moment you demand recognition and acknowledgement from one who wishes not to give it, you violate point 2 above.

            Your 4 point theory of ethics supports your desire to engage in an adult, mutually-consensual intimate relationship with whomever you wish: opposite sex, same sex, group sex, father, mother, sibling, cousin. But if you are going to insist (as you do) on EQUALITY, then you cannot include me in that relationship in ANY way without my consent! I insist on my individual liberty to reject homosexual marriage as valid. The voters of approximately 30 states did the same. Their will… their RIGHT to disagree with your position was usurped by 5 supreme court justices. Your right to pursue happiness does not give you the right to interfere with my own right (point 2 above).

            Let’s continue:

            G. Homosexuals who marry do not have the right to force anyone to accept, condone, participate in, approve of, or otherwise support their wedding. Again, marriage is a societal event, and it affects every single person in the society.

            Let’s switch to a different topic. You said, “The first difference [between our views] is related to the belief that human sexuality is fixed at or by birth. I say that it is innate and variable and that it is certainly no threat to the survival of the human species for us to evolve beyond suppression of these things through religious patriarchy.”

            Let me address this first of all in the context of your 4 points above.

            H. The transgendered have the right to view themselves as whatever gender they wish. (Point 1.)

            But…

            I. The transgendered have NO right to force me to view them as anything other than their biological gender. (Point 2.)

            So even your own ethical theory forbids the insanity that has recently taken the country by storm. Are you a woman that wants to live as a man? That’s your right, by point 1. You want to go into the men’s room of a store that YOU DO NOT OWN? Sorry… now you’re demanding something of someone else… you’re demanding acceptance from the owner of that restroom and from society itself. Point 2 forbids it!

            (Your store? your rules. Do what you want in your own store. But don’t complain if people stop coming to shop. Similarly, if you don’t want to bake a cake for a homosexual wedding, don’t do it. BUT… don’t complain when the homosexual community stops coming to buy your cupcakes! THIS is individual liberty!)

            But of course, I don’t subscribe to your four points. As I see it, we should seek and proclaim truth, not happiness. Happiness is a by-product of truth. Every time I’ve sought happiness, I’ve failed to find it. Truth is the most precious commodity in the world, and if you find truth, happiness is most often its close companion.

            I had an uncle at one time who swore he was James Earl Ray. Was I supposed to call the police and have him arrested and taken back to prison? Of course not! But why not? Because he WAS NOT James Earl Ray. If I had accepted his assertion as truth, I would have been as insane as he was. It would have been ludicrous for me to deny the truth because he did.

            I don’t know why he made the claim; perhaps he FELT like James Earl Ray… but his feelings did not change reality. And the more one denies reality, the more separated from it one becomes. My uncle could never get back to himself until he stopped claiming to be someone he was not. And reality is what it is, regardless of one’s religion (or lack thereof). We do not create our own reality, and any attempt to do so merely separates us from true reality.

            And regardless, the origin of our sexual desires (of any type) do not speak to the correctness or morality of those desires. One can be born with a genetic predisposition to violence; that doesn’t make torture or murder acceptable for him. We as a society expect him to control those desires IN SPITE OF those desires. So whether human sexuality is fixed or variable, that really doesn’t address the issue at all.

            And finally, you said, “I believe [the First Amendment] says you can worship however you want, but you can’t step on anyone else with it. You seen to think that freedom to worship is the overriding principle and that it gives some dominion over others. I say no. Emphatically.”

            I agree that my freedom of religion gives me no dominion over others. But NEITHER does my religion give others dominion over me. I do not give up the rights that even you said should be protected in point 2 above simply because I am a person of faith.

            The Free Exercise is not subordinate to the Establishment clause, but is equal to it. As one who champions individual civil rights, I’d think that you would applause this protection. That means that you and I get to live out our faith (or lack thereof) not only in private worship (or by refraining from such) but also in our day-to-day lives. And so do bakers, tailors, bankers, and every citizen of this nation. If you are an atheist, you get to live as if you were an atheist. If you are a Christian, you get to live as a Christian. Neither of these clauses protect you from the reactions you get from other citizens because of your choices. I’ve been mocked for being Christian; many atheists have been mocked for their atheism. That’s part of the price we pay for living in a country where people are free to be mockers! No freedom comes without a prices, or without responsibility.

            If you expect people of faith not to be offended when you (for example) exercise your right to sleep with whomever you will, then why are you offended when we are offended? Is it wrong for us to be offended by your activities, but somehow right for you to be offended by ours? Our taking offence doesn’t harm you, it doesn’t penalize you, it doesn’t prevent you from continuing your relationship.

            Now when being offended crosses the line to violence, harrasment, etc., then I’m offended by EITHER side who does such a thing. Do you agree?

            You may think I’m totally off-base, and you quite possibly… er… probably violently disagree with me on several points above. That is your right. I do not intend to offend, but how can we learn from each other if we cannot be honest? Again, I’m trying to understand positions that I don’t hold, and that’s tough, so I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts with me, whether I agree or not!

            Have a wonderful day!

            -tl

          • Terry Lewis

            Hi, Mara!

            I’ve been looking forward to your response to my last post. I understand that it was both quite long, and may have contained ideas that you find offensive. I honestly don’t mean to offend. Nothing I wrote was personal. I bear you no ill-will.

            I’m honestly interested in listening to your position, if you’re willing to share it. You can be as open as you’re willing; I won’t take offense, and I won’t take it personally. I only ask the same freedom to ask honest questions and state my own positions honestly.

            I’ve mentioned several times your complaint that (to paraphrase) “you can’t have a rational conversation with Christians”. Sadly, that’s often the case. But this is one Christian who is trying. Those of us who take strong positions on these issues spend so much time talking past each other; don’t you think it’s time we actually talked TO each other?

            I sincerely hope to read a response from you soon.

            Have a wonderful weekend!

            -Terry

          • Mara Glubka

            Your last post (the one with a lot of bulleted points) and a lengthy response that I had been working on has disappeared from this comment thread. I don’t know what happened and I’m not going to try to recreate it from memory, but I had responded point-by-point and was down to your bullet point H. It’s gone now.

            I’ll just repeat what I’ve said before. I believe that an individual’s rights supersede another’s right to assert any religious freedom unless tangible, physical harm can be proven. That America’s first promise is adherence to the unalienable rights of ALL. There is no path to your conclusions for me. Everyone has a right to be who they are and love who they love.

            Further, the imagined and projected descent of morality/civilization that Christians believe societal acceptance of LGBTQ people will bring is offensively ridiculous. All that will happen is that there will be a lot less suffering for LGBTQ people. That’s it and it’s a good thing to my mind. A VERY good thing. A LONG overdue maturing of the human race.

          • Terry Lewis

            Mara,

            Thank you for responding. You said, “Your last post (the one with a lot of bulleted points) and a lengthy response that I had been working on has disappeared from this comment thread.”

            That’s odd… I can still see my post….

            But let’s back up a bit. You added just a bit to your explanation that I’m curious about. You said, “I believe that an individual’s rights supersede another’s right to assert any religious freedom unless tangible, physical harm can be proven.”

            How do you come to this conclusion? The only standard you provide is the United States Constitution, which does guarantee all people the right to the free exercise of religion, but does not even MENTION marriage.

            “Everyone has a right to be who they are and love who they love.”

            (BTW… would you be willing to clarify whether or not you believe this applies to brother/sister or brother/brother relationships?)

            Your statement can support either of our positions. I agree that everyone has the right to be who they are. No one has the right to be who they are NOT. Who they are is an objective fact that cannot be changed by one’s desires. My desire to play in the NFL doesn’t mean I’m dressing out with the Steelers tomorrow. And if I go to the stadium and try to enter the locker room, I’m going to be sent to a different KIND of “locker room”… I’ll be locked up!

            Secondly, I’ll agree (to an extent) that everyone has a right to love whomever they love. I don’t condemn homosexual attraction. I view that much as I view my own tendency as a married man to be drawn to an attractive girl that catches my eye. But the larger question is, is this a relationship that I have a right to pursue? I think, that as a married man, I have no right to pursue that relationship, regardless of my “feelings” for this person. In other words, I have no choice in what I FEEL, but I do have a choice in what I DO.

            I see homosexuality the same way. One might or might not (I won’t pretend to know) be able to change their same-sex attractions; but that attraction alone doesn’t make it proper to pursue that relationship. Many other similar examples exist… some radicals are strongly tempted to find and beat homosexuals, but neither you nor I would agree that they should act on those desires. You yourself denied that your moral framework was based simply on what one desired, so I’m not certain how to reconcile your statements.

            You said, “Further, the imagined and projected descent of morality/civilization that Christians believe societal acceptance of LGBTQ people will bring is offensively ridiculous. All that will happen is that there will be a lot less suffering for LGBTQ people.”

            I think your assumption that this is “all that will happen” is a bit naive, although it’s quite possible that the dire warnings given by some are just as ill-conceived. Someone once wisely said, “When you come to a fence, it’s a good idea to discover why it’s there in the first place before you tear it down.”

            And I’m all for less suffering for anyone, but not at the expense of truth. For instance, alcoholism brings suffering with it, including alienation from friends and loved ones. Alleviating the suffering without correcting the core problem removes critical warning signs that are needed to keep that person safe and alive. And if these friends and family members ignore the truth and don’t warn this person about the consequences of their behavior just to soothe their feelings, then they are being unloving! Love speaks truth, even when it hurts, even when it’s not popular, and even when it’s not easy to say or hear.

            So the question is, how do arrive at your determination that LGBTQ behavior is appropriate or inappropriate? If it is appropriate, then people do wrong to oppose it; but if it is inappropriate, then people do wrong to support it. In either case, we as Christians have no right to be rude, condescending, or hateful to persons in the LGBTQ community. On that, I think we can both agree. But I think this also means that the LGBTQ community has no right to be rude or hateful to Christians.

            You and I have been making a step in this direction. When we can discuss our differences, rather than shouting at each other, this is, in my mind, a VERY good thing!

          • Barbi

            About the discrimination against gay weddings and pride parade merchandise by the Christian bakers, photographers, florists, venue providers, caterers, T-shirt artists, The law is wrong that makes these people earn their living by doing such business contrary to their consciences. Christian publishers and GLT advocating publishers do NOT have to make books contrary to their specialty, their interests, their world views. So why do these artists? The law isn’t equally applied or publishers should have to publish all books. Newspapers and magazines should have to publish all the letters they get. Stores should have to sell everybody’s wares –no Christian book stores –and none dedicated to New Age merchandise. Libraries should have to offer ALL books, not just ones they select. There is MUCH discrimination —Colleges don’t admit everyone but are selective. Yet, you think the Christians must cater to the GLT community and anything they want.

          • TruthvLIes

            Mara, if you experience love, joy and beauty in abundance, why is it you are so hateful? That does not add up.

            And please do tell us from your infinite knowledge about the harm that religion has done? if we don’t hear from you I will assume that what you say is all hot air and hyperbole.

          • TruthvLIes

            Thankyou for confirming Mara that what you say is all hot air and hyperbole.

          • Barbi

            We have faith in what you say we cannot KNOW. I really believe the church would not have risen or survived –had Christ not risen from the dead. THAT was the starting point. His fishermen followers were not going to start a lasting, world religion with only Jesus’ teachings. Instead, they saw a dead man alive again–both Jesus –and earlier Lazarus raised by Jesus. They saw 10 lepers healed, the blind and the lame. They were so transformed by seeing the resurrected Jesus that John and Peter boldly went into Jerusalem (instead of fearing their own deaths) –and HEALED a man themselves “in Jesus’ name” –at the Gate called Beautiful –a man everyone confirmed was lame from birth. Acts Ch. 3 and 4 is a marvelous contemporary sounding journalistic piece –written by Luke, a physician of their day. If that all truly happened, what would you say if you witnessed it? I believe the testimony of the eye witnesses –and when I believed, I just KNEW it was true –God’s Spirit bears witness with our spirits when we commit our lives to Him –when we are remorseful for our sinful choices –when we decide to agree with God about our sin nature –and the nature of sin.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            No, you really haven’t gotten anything. But thank you for the blessing and proving Jesus’ words true!!

          • pand ne mo nium

            About as asinine as you can get.

          • You have an overly simplistic understanding of Christians. Other than some backwoods uneducated version of Christianity that isn’t even close to reality. Do yourself a favor and read GK Chesterton or CS Lewis. At a minimum it will make you understand Christianity better and just possibly it might lead to more.

          • pand ne mo nium

            It seems that Kim is still living in the dark ages and cannot seem to get up to pace with society today. He is still defending the argument that the world is not flat, but that had been decided yonks ago. I wonder what cave he lives in and what world he inhabits. Do you think he is some kind of peasant who thinks that he is clever because he has worked out the world is not flat?

            If that is the case and it probably is, then he is going to be hard pressed to say anything of any relevance.

          • Mara Glubka

            People like you are trying to oppress and coerce others to live by your rules. And who again is living in the Dark Ages? Utterly stunning lack of self-awareness.

          • Barbi

            Christian standards really are for mankind’s optimum well being –to get him to heaven –but also to protect him from harmful addictions, practices, relationships, disappointments and poverty –which are affected adversely by man’s choices.

            E.G. –divorce makes family members poorer because the split doubles the cost of living. It harms the kids and the spouse that was faithful and didn’t want the divorce. Promiscuity disappoints — HIV/AIDS and other STD’s are no fun, I’m sure. We shall find that homosexual couples’ children have problems as adults –similar to those of divorced kids (Granted, exceptions, pro and con.) Christians say murder and stealing are wrong –but not all cultures agree in practice –or even in their religion. Christianity was the civilizer of western civ.

          • Mara Glubka

            How about this? I design a religion that I think is compatible with optimum well being and then force it on you because I sincerely hold those beliefs. How about that, huh? My first tenet would be to define other religious beliefs as mental illness. You know, the same thing that you guys do. BTW, those who matter left the ‘disorder’ thing behind a few years ago. It’s called gender dysphoria now and the only KNOWN relief is gender transition. Conversion therapy has been discredited by the man who founded it, Dr. Robert Spitzer. In fact, he felt so bad about it, he apologized in 2012 for it. Yet, McHugh, Mayer and other religious types still call for it when those who still practice that belong in prison for the very demonstrable harm it causes.

          • Barbi

            This religion was not made by mankind, Mara. What is optimum well being? Happiness, health, stability in relationships. Stable income helps –and that is tied to monogamous marriage. . Do addictions (slavery to substances) make us happy and healthy? No. Does divorce? not really–we start out in love and are disillusioned, causing divorce. Does gender dysphoria make people happy either before or after the surgery? not from what we hear. Will the transgendered and the homosexual ever truly have inner peace and contentment? I doubt it.

            But say you make up the religion like Satanism and atheism –which say “anything goes.” Infidelity , lying, Theft and looting and teen-age under-age sex –and even consensual incest and pedophilia are justified –and getting even with enemies. Selfishness is exalted. “I gotta be ME” “I gotta do it MY way.” Polygamy is ok. Islam is to be tolerated in your liberal religion even though the radicals kill homosexuals, rape victims, adulterers, Christians, Jews, Kurds, and anyone who disagrees with them –and take child brides in some Islamic cultures.

            No matter what you decide is right or wrong in your religion, people will question YOUR right to impose YOUR religion –which would include silencing the churches and the Christian message probably. OUR COUNTRY is the best because our founders said the following:

            “Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” –John Adams, 2nd pres.

            “Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? …I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that his justice cannot sleep forever.” T. Jefferson

            “We have staked the whole future of Am. civ not on the power of gov’t far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves according to the Ten C’s of the God.” J. Madison

            Ben Franklin said, “I have lived, Si, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth–that God governs in the affairs of men… And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid?”

            Great sayings from the founders. We are far from their wisdom today.

          • pand ne mo nium

            Does anyone else get the impression that Mara is professor of everything as she seems to know all there is about everything and anything?

            It is a pity that in her learning she didn’t learn something about what she thinks she knows everything about. She constantly gives us the gospel according to Mara and at the end of it all it is usually complete baloney as it is nothing more than the delusions of a misguided soul who is desperate to prove that all her non knowledge is going to be her salvation.

            Most of the time she says “Hey, I have got all the answers so listen to me and believe what I say.” The fact that most of the time it is nothing more than rhetorical mumbo jumbo has escaped her.

            Even worse she believes that by saying something like “My first tenet would be to define other religious beliefs as mental illness. You know, the same thing that you guys do” she is going to convince us that she knows everything and we know nothing.

            Definitely delusional that’s for sure which means “Delusional comes from a Latin word meaning “deceiving.” So delusional thinking is kind of like deceiving yourself by believing outrageous things.”

            People like Mara are only deceiving themselves as we are too intelligent to be fooled by her delusion.

          • Husband of the Year

            Optimum well being = whatever I feel like. Very philosophical.

          • TruthvLIes

            Mara, I see that you are a mouthpiece for homosexual thought and lies. As I see it, not an original thought amongst any of your comments.

            Christianity as I understand it…TODAY, does not force itself on anyone which seems to be one of your fixations. I have been a christian on three continents and as yet, have not seen one single church force anyone to attend. I have not seen any church have someone stand outside their building with a gun and make people go into the building on pain of death.

            This forcing bit is all in your mind Mara, and the sooner you get rid of it the better you will feel because unwarranted hatred eats away at your emotional balance and you become very unbalanced as a result.

            In 60 years and on three continents I have never heard anyone describe other religious beliefs as a mental illness.

            If gender transition is the only know relief, why are so many of them regretting that they took that path and tried to hide their true self with surgery? I guess you don’t read things like that because it blows your theories out of the window and makes you face the truth which you obviously cannot handle.

            You obviously live in world of make believe which says “don’t bother me with the truth, my mind is made up.”

            As for conversion therapy being discredited by the man who found it, absolute rubbish. For every one who discredits it, another 10 start up to help those who have an unwanted same sex attraction. I have led people who asked for it to wholeness and they are now married and have children.

            I am not aware that any of them consider I have done them harm. On the contrary, they are very thankful they were delivered of a very cruel way of life and have now found peace and happiness in marriage and have discovered their true selves so I don’t know where you are getting your information from. Probably just parroting what you have heard and seen what deceived militant homosexuals have said.

            The stupid government where I live have made that illegal so I wrote to them and asked them if those who did get release from an unwanted same sex attraction and got married and have children have to give that all up and go back to being homosexual and after writing to them about 20 times about this, I am still waiting for an answer.

            Obviously their homosexual masters have no answer to a question like this.

          • Barbi

            No one is forcing belief on anyone. However, I admit that the world view of the majority affects legislation which affects culture. Right now the secularists/humanists/atheists/agnostics –and their world view are prevailing in policies and trying to force their beliefs with tax dollars (like the AD ‘s lesbian push last fall) –which is probably why Trump won –though he has not led an exemplary Christian life himself. But we know that the other party is controlled by the extreme left and the LGT and abortion advocates, and that’s why they lost –not racism –not even immigration, though THAT was a factor –along with the free-spending deficit spending of the LEFT –who never saw someone else’s dollar they couldn’t spend on their misbegotten ideas.

            You don’t consider the possibility that Christianity wasn’t designed by man but by the Creator Who really does advocate standards for our optimum well-being. Any honest look at history, past and present reality, tells us that the moral code of the Bible’s Ten C’s and the N.T. really does produce happier, more functional people and families, when followed. that world view produced the best country the world has ever seen –America. Monogamy and fidelity between man and wife –waiting for that one mate –makes for happier adults and kids. We have more single people than ever now –who end up alone after multiple relationships. It’s a principle cause of poverty for adults and children –even men. And complicated by drugs and alcohol and even crime.

            Honesty is in short supply on the Left, in particular –consider Hillary’s lies and evasions and her and Bill’s lifetime of dysfunction as a couple, staying together for political reasons and money.

          • pand ne mo nium

            I don’t need to oppress and coerce fools. They do that for themselves as evidenced by the pathetic and asinine comments of the fools here.

            I would love to get out and engage more of culture and intelligent debate but it is not going to happen because too many people have become foolhardy and handed over their intelligence to moronic politically correct fundamentalist left wing haters who can’t handle the truth.

            So they go around grunting and groaning in their attempts to make conversation, and at the end of the day all they have said is nothing other than what they have been told to say.

            They are too frightened to say what is the truth because they are too frightened of their politically correct fundamentalist left wing hating masters.

            When someone comes along and speaks the unadulterated truth they throw their hands up in horror and say “You can’t say that. It is not according to the gospel of the thought police. If you say that you will be accused of trying to control people’s lives and that is not right.”

            And you say, “Haven’t you noticed that the fundamentalist left wing thought police are trying to control everyone who disagrees with them?”

            “No, that is not right. All they are doing is telling everyone what they can and cannot do and what they can and cannot say. That is not control.”

          • Barbi

            Christians didn’t believe in a flat earth any longer than pagans did –if they ever believed it. Men of faith have been prominent as explorers, scientists, inventors. And many of today’s MD’s and PhD’s are persons of faith.

          • pand ne mo nium

            I did a search of the flat earth theory and discovered it was all the secular people that believed that. The church wasn’t mentioned once. But those who are dependant on false theories, lies and nonsense are unable to divest themselves of total rubbish because they depend on it for their existence as they have nothing else to offer.

          • Mara Glubka

            There is the little problem of all those passports, birth cerificates, drivers licenses, Social Security cards and names and gender markers that have been legally changed. In some cases, past records have been also legally sealed. Then there are all the cities and states that have had protections in place for years. In Minneapolis, since 1975. No issues. The state of MN, 1993. No issues. Not gonna happen.

          • pand ne mo nium

            That is right Manny but I notice they are completely silent on facts of that nature.

          • Yep.

        • pand ne mo nium

          Oh no. Not another rant from someone who knows nothing at all about that they are writing.

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          You have NO clue what it means to be American. I served this country in uniform for 20yrs so I’m guessing that I might just have a little better idea than you as to what is American!! Nor do you evidently know how to read simple English. Maybe YOU should go back and actually read those FIRST WORDS of the Bill of Rights you so ardently wanna tout. Break out your Dictionary and take it one word at a time….

          CONGRESS… here’s a hint… that’s NOT a florist, baker, photographer, etc.!!
          SHALL… ah, never mind.

          Since you obviously can’t read and choose to make bold-faced lies that anyone who wants to actually look at the Constitution can see as a lie. You might wanna go back and actually read the Constitution and you’ll see the Jesus, specifically, IS mentioned!!!

          Oh, and btw, nice job at leaving off the latter part of what you quoted. Let me help you… “or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…” You people wanna camp on the first part and ignore the latter. An intellectually honest person would know that both should get equal weight.

          Thank you for showing everyone who the real nitwit full of BS is. It’s always appreciated when the spiritually-dead, God-haters discredit themselves. Gotta love that about as much as their rants about how we are never about love. Oh yeah, your post just oozes love! LOL

          • Mara Glubka

            It means that the United States shall make no laws respecting an establishment of religion because congress is the only place where law happens, not at the bakery or the florist. AN establishment of religion means any of them. The second part means you’re free to worship, not discriminate. Public businesses all benefit from and use infrastructure that everyone pays for. This is why they must serve everyone or there is inequity.

            So those who didn’t serve in the military are lesser Americans, huh? Like Trump or every Republican candidate this year? Typical rightie.

          • Barbi

            Unfortunately, law has been made in the courts which is not supposed to MAKE law– over the will of the people –30 states voted to make marriage as it always had been–between one man and one woman. This century. And Congress did so in 1993 –DOMA. The court was unconstitutional in striking down the law passed by the people and the Congress. The pres. was unconstitutional in not having the DOJ defend federal DOMA law –which (federal laws) the president and the Attorney general swore to uphold when they were put into their positions. Lawless president. Lawless court.

            But now that this illegitimate court-made law has made marriage include same sex couples, we still have a religious right to disagree with that definition –and just as a book publisher doesn’t have to publish everybody’s book and every kind of book, neither should a businessman have to bake all kinds of cakes, and do events or convey messages or images with their art to which they are religiously opposed. You don’t see the gays pushing the Muslim bakers to do their cakes? Why not? Afraid?

            The inter-racial marriages are a different matter. There was nothing in the religion or the Bible to say that inter marriage was a sin. There is plenty in the Bible against homosexual relations. Paul wrote that such behavior is a consequence of exchanging truth about God for a lie and worshiping creature more than Creator. Now, if that ain’t the truth–as plain as the nose on your face –i don’t know what is!!

          • Mara Glubka

            The Bible means only hate and oppression to me. I want nothing to do with it or any ‘holy’ book. It’s ALL childish BS to me. Made up by men to oppress, own or control others, especially women. It’s a patriarchal smokescreen. I do, however, recognize your right to believe whatever fairy tale you like, just not your right to use your beliefs to make others conform to yours. Human sexuality varies just like in the rest of nature. Calling nature sin is the sin.

          • Barbi

            Mara, I believe –because of the beauty and complexity and awesomeness of the universe, the earth and every living thing. As St. Paul said, “…what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world, God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.”

            Creation declares the existence of a Creator –and we are “fearfully and wonderfully made.” It makes more sense to believe in a Designer of our amazing bodies, e.g., than to NOT believe. Takes more blind faith to believe we are a product of amoeba to man –or “goo to you” than to believe we were planned, designed –and made in the image of a glorious being –as Genesis says.

            I believe because ordinary common men started the church and it thrived with its message –a message that got them martyred –and they knew that –and were in no way brave to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus –until they SAW HIM ALIVE –after He was truly dead. Then all that He said made sense! And they believed Him when He said, “Because I live, you shall live also.” and “I go to prepare a place for you –that where I am, you may be also.” this was only 20 centenarian lifetimes ago!

            I want to get to that place He is preparing for those who love and serve Him. He forgives everyone who will agree with Him about his sin nature –and the nature of his sins. And promises to save the repentant who believe.

          • pand ne mo nium

            Calling good evil and evil good is the sin according to scripture. Welcome to the sinners den. Usually, those who see the bible as representing hate and oppression do so because that person specialises in hate and oppression. In other words they project their hate and oppression onto others and other people’s words.

            Here is a little fact for you. There have been a unprecedented number of muslims in the Middle East giving up Islam and embracing christianity. When asked why most of them said because islam is a religion of hate but christianity is a religion of love.

            They should know all about hate as Islam is the most hateful religion on earth. So when they say they ditched it in favour of christianity because it is a religion of love, one has to sit up and take notice as no right minded person is going to ditch a religion of hate for one that hates even more.

            If the truth were known, the hate that you perceive is coming from inside you.

          • TruthvLIes

            You bet they are afraid Barbi. Only I would call it cowardice. They know if they jack up about a Muslim baker refusing to support homosexuality by baking them a cake they know they might get a knife in their ribs or a brick through the window of their house.

          • TruthvLIes

            And they always seem to drag up what is past as though I am guilty for what someone did a hundred or two hundred years ago. Shows me that they are afraid of the truth that is happening today so they have to avoid it and try and detract people away from it and spread lies and try and make them sound like the truth.

            Apart from the fact that blacks are constantly making their annoyance known when homosexuals use them to justify their thing. They point out that Blacks are born black. Homosexuals are not born homosexual so there is no comparison.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Thank you for showing what the spiritually-dead thought processes are. Too bad the Truth escapes you but we understand.

            Oh, and btw Sweetie, just as I don’t have any control over where and what my taxes go to or how the Gov’t spends the money I give them – NEITHER DO YOU!! If you were intellectually honest you’d say that “equality” should be shown to those who do not wish to provide a service if it violates their religious convictions. AND you’d admit that EVERYBODY discriminates. It’s not a matter of “whether” but of “whose”.

            This is blatantly obvious to anyone that hasn’t self-deluded themselves to the point of living in their own fantasy land. Even the Gov’t discriminates. PRIVATE companies that service the PUBLIC that are businesses with over 20 people must abide by certain laws. Why not those with 19 then????????????? Uh, THAT’S discrimination!! PRIVATE companies who serve the PUBLIC by doing business with the Federal Government MUST abide by certain Regulations that others don’t. THAT is discrimination.

            Got it now Sweetie?

            Thank you for showing everyone that you support every perversion under the sun and that the Gov’t should not discriminate against Andromimetophilia, Anthropophagolagnia, Autoandrophilia, Autogynephilia, Autonepiophilia, Autopedophilia, Autoplushophilia, Chronophilia, Coprophilia, Ephebophilia, Exhibitionists, Gerontophilia, Gynandromorphophilia, Gynemimetophilia, Hebephilia, Infantophilia, Necrophilia, Pederasty, Pedophilia, Peodeiktophilia, Pedovestism, Piquerism, Raptophilia, Scoptophilia, Stigmatophilia, Toucherism, Transvestophilia, Troilism, Urolagnia, Urophagia, Zoophilia, and a whole bunch more!

            No doubt Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy, Gary Ridgeway, and a host of others wish you had been in control of the Gov’t while they were around.

          • Mara Glubka

            Yeah, I got it. You’re a verbose idiot.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Thank you for once again showing your true colors and discrediting yourself. It’s always appreciated.

            Btw, here’s a little clue for you should you decide at some point that you’d like to stop publicly showing your ignorance. It is better to keep your mouth shut and not show your ignorance than open it and remove all doubt.

            Every time you open your mouth and spew the typical retort like “You’re a verbose idiot”, you show you inability to hold any kind of an intellectual conversation while simultaneously proving Dr. Brown’s point!! LOL

            Can’t attack the Message, attack the Messenger. Typical Leftwing, Liberal, spiritually-dead tactic. Unfortunately for you and your ilk, you’re not the one who gets the last laugh!

          • Mara Glubka

            People that preach their religious beliefs are impossible to have a an intellectual conversation with. You’re dishonest or and cowardly for being anonymous. All of you here that comment in that fashion are. You’re afraid to stand in the light of day as who you are everywhere. I do not suffer from that affliction. I am who I am everywhere. I don’t say something different here that I wouldn’t say to my own mother. I am truth. All day. Every day. In every way. You should try it sometime. It’s freeing. Transparent for all the world. No deceptions No secrets. No need to make others believe what I believe. But I do have beliefs and I’m very involved politically. I’m not with you. At all.

          • pand ne mo nium

            No need to make others believe what you believe. Now, as I understand it invading a discussion on the net and calling people all sort of rude, arrogant and pejorative names is a good guide to someone trying to make others believe what you believe.

            And the fact that you use such low brow tactics tells me you are not very good at it.

          • TruthvLIes

            Royce…anonymous!!! I know all about Royce by him telling his story and it tells me that he is man worth listening too as he has lived life where the rubber hits the road. And thanks to him and others like him, you have the right to call him what you will and your not shot dead as a result.

            In my studies of homosexuality and they have been numerous because of my degree in Social Science, I can see why their self centredness is so prevalent. They have convinced themselves they are right and everyone else is wrong yet their head and heart is telling them that it is a dead end way of life that no one in their right mind would recommend.

            You must be in the minority as most homosexuals seem to be in their “closet” because they are ashamed of being homosexual as it is not normal. As for being truth. Truth is hate if you hate the truth, which you do so I would suggest that you do not know what truth is.

            What I would suggest, again discovered whilst studying the subject, is that you are deceived and you will prove this by denying that you are not deceived.

          • pand ne mo nium

            Nice one Royce.

        • Barbi

          That’s not America’s guarantee exactly. My religion says Thou shalt not murder or steal or bear false witness. Should you be bound by American laws that are the same as my religious ones? Can you murder, steal and lie because your belief system says you can? YOu do know that other cultures believe they can murder, steal and lie, don’t you? Forced abortions in China would be an example of atheism being enforced.. Honor killings by Muslims –and killing infidels and rape victims and adulteresses are examples of Islam.

          As for fear, “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.” He controls universe, the planet –and created LIFE in all its diversity. “It is He that made us and not we ourselves.” He is our only hope of eternal life –through the Gospel of Christ.

          It’s Christ’s Golden Rule and the Ten C’s which influenced our Constitution –and the founders. Thomas Jefferson who didn’t believe in the miracles of the Bible nevertheless wrote in our founding document, The Declaration of Independence, that all men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights –life liberty pursuit of happiness. He was on the first D.C. school board with the Bible and other religious texts on the textbook list. They established public schools so all Americans could learn to read –the Bible. They said many things about the value of that book to a free republic –one president said we couldn’t govern without God and the Bible –that only a religious and moral people could make democracy work. (We’re seeing that come true, I fear –that an irreligious and immoral people will fail our great country –when the economy collapses from all the corruption and federal meddling and the entitled hit the streets when their checks don’t come –when no one has an income.

        • pand ne mo nium

          I didn’t know you were Congress.

      • Kim Hudlet

        So you are preaching evolution? Survival of the fittest?? How very educated and progressive of you…..I have new found respect.

        • pand ne mo nium

          Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z

          • daz

            the smartest thing
            said so far

        • Barbi

          Kim –I think we’ve met before –and I think we’ve covered this before. Creationists DO believe in natural selection and the role of the survival of the fittest in natural selection. But this genetic fact of why certain traits survive or pre-dominate in a species and others don’t, does not prove Darwin’s theory of common descent from lower life forms –of higher life forms evolving from lower life forms over millions of years by random accident (no designer or controller) over millions of years (imagined time required for this slow process to have occurred by their fantasy theory.) Evolution is a preposterous idea to account for the existence of marvelous, complex, amazing human beings. They have so little evidence and NO proof. The evidence Darwinists claim is either disproven or more effectively explained by modern creation scientists.

          Moreover, if you are one who claims to be Christian–I believe you are if I recall, then ask yourself why the God who heals and raises the dead with a word or a touch –and without even seeing the patient in one case –why does such a Creator-God as Christ NEED Darwin’s slow, trial by error method –to evolve higher creatures. “In the beginning was the WORD….” and He Spake everything into existence. Sort of like we can speak commands to a computer and produce amazing response because of the stored knowledge in the programs -the chips –or wherever. God didn’t need Darwin to produce diversity –much less to explain it.

    • Royce E. Van Blaricome

      I see you have made the same mistake that all the other apostates have. You’ve violated the 1st & 2nd of the Ten Commandments by creating a jesus (small J) in your own image according to your liking. You clearly have NO clue Who the real Jesus is. The One who created them male and female in “our image” would NEVER attend a SSM let alone bless it. SMH!!

      As for asking Dr. Laura for advice about Scripture, well, that’s like asking a blind man to describe a Rainbow or a deaf man to hum a few bars of the Star Spangled Banner! Every single one of those Scriptures listed by the Unbeliever who wants to cling to his sin because they love their sin and darkness more than the Savior and the light, can be easily explained. Here’s a little something you might wanna ponder:

      When the spiritually dead try to read the Book of Life it’s like a blind man trying to read a road map before hopping in the car to drive. You have to get a heart transplant before you can have eyes to see.

      “The unbeliever does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1st Cor. 2:14)

      John MacArthur, in his blog entitled “Why Does Sola Scriptura Matter” said, “Nothing is more offensive to the Author of Scripture than to disregard, deny, or distort the truth He has revealed (Revelation 22:18–19). To mishandle the Word of God is to misrepresent the One who wrote it. To reject its claims is to call Him a liar. To ignore its message is to snub that which the Holy Spirit inspired.” Folks would do well to remember that before saying such things as “God says…” or “The Bible says…” When you say such things you step into the shoes of a prophet and basically say, “Thus sayeth the Lord…” They would also do well to remember that Satan quoted Scripture to Jesus as well. Twist not the Scriptures lest you be like Satan.

      That said, IF you will die to yourself by surrendering your life as a slave to Christ and stop being your own god, confess your sins before Christ, pick up your cross and follow Him as your new Lord and Master, and beg Him to save you, He will. Then you will be able to see. (Matt. 16:24)

      You would do well and be much better served if you do NOT underestimate the hatred God has for and the wrath that awaits those who have rejected His free Gift.

      • Mara Glubka

        ‘Take my free gift or I will hate you.’ Such a lovely God you have. No thanks.

        • Barbi

          I believe Royce may have meant to include the word SIN after “…the hatred God has for___and the wrath that awaits those who have rejected his free Gift.” Jesus did say He would separate the believers to eternal life –and the others to destruction. Of course we don’t want that to happen –we aren’t supposed to risk it. And the Bible says, “God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance and have eternal life.” It also says, “For God so loved the world that He gave His only son that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life.” We don’t get to decide how the Creator chooses to make us immortal again –as He originally intended according to Genesis. It does you no good to shake your puny fist Heavenward and protest that He is making you CHOOSE to believe in order to be saved and gain eternal life. HIs wrath, mentioned by Royce, is why we are mortal in the first place. We have a sin nature –because we used our free will to choose sin. And so we die.

          Jesus came and healed the blind, the lame, the lepers. He raised the dead. He rose FROM the dead Himself –according to the witnesses who were emboldened to risk their lives because they saw Him after His death. He had said, “Because I live, you shall live also.” They knew it was true. They had seen so much with Him. He literally walked on water. And Peter walked on water to meet Him –until He doubted and sank. This lovely God loved so much He gave up His life to a horrible death –to make the cross a symbol of life eternal by paying a penalty for sin and conquering the grave.

          YOu see, you will die. I shall die. We all die. We are mortal. I know of no one else who walked the earth and rose from the grave 3 days later (except Lazarus, his friend whom He raised –about 2 weeks before His own death. That event caused His fame to spread such that one week later, He would ride into Jerusalem like royalty –with the throngs adoring Him –believing He would save them from the Romans. AFter all, He raised a man from the dead –and did many other miracles. His deeds astounded and He was famous throughout the region –and a threat to the status quo. Within that week, He would be crucified –and would rise again.

          There is no other name under Heaven by which we can be saved.” “Draw near to me and I shall draw near to you.”

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Actually Barbi, no I didn’t mean to include the word Sin. “God hates the Sin but loves the Sinner” is a common cliche that far too many regurgitate without thinking about it and/or without knowing what God actually says. For a thorough teaching on the subject I would point you to the GTY blog. Or you can just Google “Does God Hate the Sinner”? Time & Space does not allow me to go into it all here. It’s a fairly deep study and takes some time but God’s Word is clear on the issue.

            That said your overall comments were very good. I would just remind you that God never contradicts Himself and while it is true that God does not wish that any should perish there does come a time, when only God knows, that God will and does turn people over to a reprobate mind. There is NOTHING in Scripture that says God will give someone until their last dying breath to confess and repent. In fact, there are numerous passages that show just the opposite. And I believe the time is coming soon when 2nd Thes. 2:11-12 will doom folks like Mara forever.

            When that time comes they will shake their fist at God, curse Him, and beg Him to kill them.

          • Barbi

            I think the idea of death bed repentance and conversion is the problem with remorse. Someone who PLANS to live like the devil and squeak into Heaven on his deathbed –having no interest in God or righteousness prior –will probably not be truly remorseful or even muster up a saving faith. However, the thief on the cross believed in Jesus’s Kingdom — and said he knew he deserved death and Jesus did not –and for that Jesus saved him.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Again, I agree with the “heart” of what you’re saying but it’s actually more than that. In fact, far too many are “remorseful” but never “repent” or “contrite”. The problem comes not with them being “not remorseful” or “mustering up enough faith” but rather they live a life of constantly hardening their heart toward God. It’s like a callus. When one rubs up against something enough a callus forms and, if continued, it can get so thick that ya can take a knife and slice right thru it without feeling a thing. The best example I can think of from the Bible is Pharaoh of Egypt and the number of time he hardened his own heart. But there came a time when God hardened his heart. Or in other words, removed His grace from Pharoah, left him to his own nature, and thereby established him in his condition.

            This is why we must NEVER give anyone a false hope that they can tell God “No!” and live another day because they’ll get another chance. We simply do not know when God says enough is enough.

          • Barbi

            That’s the point I intended to make –though I think true remorse LEADS to repentance and a heart soft for belief via the Holy Spirit. Someone who waits until his deathbed –intentionally, preferring to sin all the way–won’t feel the remorse sufficient to be truly repentant –won’t be sorry for his sinning –and yes, God may not woo the person via the Spirit at that point. These are things about others that we can’t be sure of in their dying state –i.e. God will do what He wills concerning the dying sinner regardless of our assessment of the person’s spiritual state.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Oh Barbi, you’re probably gonna think I’m picking on you or picking at nits. I’m truly not. Again, I agree mostly with what you said but gotta say that the “God may not woo the person via the Holy Spirit” isn’t Biblical either. It’s another one of those cliches. See John 6:44 and John 16:8. And ya might throw in all the verses like Psalms 110:11.

            I agree with you that we can’t be sure of the actions of another in their dying state. BUT what we can be sure of is our own. Christ has commanded us to be Messengers. Deliverers of the Gospel and what we can do is make sure we give a full, complete, and accurate Gospel Message.

            For example, asking someone if they’d like to accept Jesus or ask Jesus into their heart as their dying is a HUGE disservice because it is a false gospel. Asking them if they’d like to surrender as a slave to Jesus Christ as their new Lord and Master to serve Him for all Eternity is a MUCH different and more accurate Gospel. Give that presentation and ask a near comatose person to just squeeze your hand as a profession of their surrendering to Jesus and trusting Him to save them is a pretty good likelihood they truly got saved.

        • pand ne mo nium

          Anyone else think that our dear Mara has a fixation for hate? She seems to love to hate and let everyone know how she loves hating everyone.

          • Mara Glubka

            You are correct. I am fixated on hateful religion. It has to be driven to the center of the earth and buried under a few trillion cubic yards of concrete. You know, like disposing of nuclear waste.

          • pand ne mo nium

            I guess you mean Islam which thrives on hate for everyone who is not a muslim.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            “I am fixated on hateful religion. It has to be driven to the center of the earth and buried under a few trillion cubic yards of concrete. You know, like disposing of nuclear waste.”

            Good luck with that! LOL Hasn’t been done in 2000yrs and your not big enough to even come close to accomplishing it!! LOL

            I hope I’m there when you bow the knee to Christ. I’d really love to see that one!

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          Okie Dokie. Enjoy your torment in the Lake of Fire for ALL Eternity though “enjoy” is an oxymoron. Better I say “enjoy” your time as your own god while you can. That day IS coming to an end. Then you can reap what you’ve sown for rejecting the true God and His free Gift.

      • TruthvLIes

        Thankyou Royce for that well set out and explained truth. It only goes to show how desperate the homosexuals are to avoid the truth of scripture at all costs so all they can do is produce their own revised version and call it the Queen Janes Version.

    • TruthvLIes

      Dawn Cowell, I have heard all your arguments ad infinitum and have done the study necessary to show them for what they are. So here are some pointers for you to stop making the mistakes you are making….

      One. I haven’t bought into anything because the salvation Jesus gives is free and to ensure that I am my own man I have one theological degree and three university degrees.

      Two. Your comparisons have whiskers on them and are irrelevant as these people were born that way. I was born left handed. Homosexuals are not so there is no comparison.

      Three. Jesus would not bake the cake and marry them because Jesus always accepted the sinner but did not accept their sin. He said go and sin no more.

      Four. Did you know that the claim there are 1,500 animal species that are homosexual is hogwash. It was invented by homosexuals to justify their way of life. Animals live in packs most of the time and the alpha male in charge fights to have sex with females. Not one pack has EVER been recorded as the alpha male fighting to have sex with other males. Having seen about 100 recordings of the lives of the Alpha Male, not one was after another male.

      Five. I don’t want to bring up the OT and never have.

      Six. Laura Schlesinger is not my God.

      Seven. I live under the New Covenant as a born again believer, so these verses are irrelevant to me as I am not a Jew.

      Eight. Being a parrot for the homosexual movement will do you no favours.

      Nine. From my experience and what the word of God says, no one needs to stay homosexual if they don’t want to. Paul was adamant about this as he told the Corinthian Church that “such were some of you” and that included people that were homosexual.

      Ten. Try concentrating on the unadulterated word of God and you won’t be caught so often with your ***** down.

  • Jin Jin

    How about everyone minds their own business. I won’t judge you for being contradictive, blind zealots without and ounce of critical thought. And you won’t judge me for my personal lifestyle, which doesn’t involve you.
    Bet that led you to make assumptions about my lifestyle, but sorry to disappoint. I’m in a heterosexual relationship in which We have a child and have been together for 14 strong years.
    The actions of others do not affect me, and the gay people I know and love are in pretty conventional relationships with their partners. I see a ton of promiscuity among the singles at the sports bar, though, why aren’t you all worried about the twenty somethings at the local bars, go protest them. Or just mind your business, period.

    • Husband of the Year

      Sounds pretty selfish, to be honest. “Minding your own business” sounds like a deficit of empathy.

      • Jin Jin

        Do you even understand autonomy? What’s selfish is the likes of you passing horrible an destructive judgement on certain people, because of an archaic book that was written and re-written, and translated thousands of times and changed to suit whatever King of whatever region believed and your own personal comfort level. Gay is here to stay! Get over it!

        • TruthvLIes

          Apart from your post being complete gibberish, have you thought about the passing of horrible and destructive judgement that the homosexual thought police do on a daily basis. Let me give you an example.

          A former Premier of Victoria writes a weekly column in a statewide newspaper. One week he wrote about parenting (he has four children) and said the evidence and please note evidence, not his opinion, is that children do best when raised by their biological married mum and dad. (I have seen the research so I know it is true).

          This same person is Chairman of Beyond Blue, an organisation that helps people suffering from depression and suicidal thoughts.

          The homosexual thought police came out of the woodwork and got themselves into all of a lather.

          “How dare he say that. He has no right to say that as it is not true. He can’t prove that homosexuals are not as good as biological parents in parenting skills.”

          On and On they went and they ended up threatening to hound him out of his Job as Chairman of Beyond Blue and and make the paper print a retraction and sack him as a commentator.

          These precious little snowflakes had no concept whatsoever of the freedom of speech; the right to be heard; the idea that there could be an alternative view; the fact that it was true; the fact that thousands shared his view of parenting; the fact that he was doing a great job of helping those suffering depression many of whom were probably homosexuals; the fact that no matter what they demanded, it did not alter the facts; and the fact that ranting and raging showed how emotionally fragile they were.

          Fortunately the Editor of the newspaper and the former Premier were made of sterner stuff so they did not back down and these precious little snowflakes were forced to retreat into their caves and leave them alone.

          • Jin Jin

            You call what I have to say jibberish, and then basically write a word salad.
            The gay agenda is coming for you!
            I can’t take a single thing you say remotely serious.
            When you die, and see nothing but blackness on your way out, remember how hung up you were on where people placed their genitals.
            Also, most people as vehemently against homosexuality as you are have some secret feelings. You seem awful passionate about this. It’s ok, just know you will never pray that gay away!

          • James Church

            Jin Jin, whilst I am not into judging those outside the Church of Jesus Christ for their actions, let me warn you that as you die and come face to face with your Creator, Lord and Judge, the light of His holiness will make people long for the darkness to hide them, but light casts out the darkness and there will be no hiding place. Sexual sins, hatred of fellow men made in God’s image, pointless divisions and arguments, greed and indifference to the poor of the earth, all these things will be seen only as the consequence of rebellion against and denial of the One to whom all praise is due. I suspect then that what you thought was hatred will be seen as truly loving warning and wise guidance. I pray you come to see this before your eyes close in death. For there is always hope where there is life, and there is always an opportunity for repentance whatever the sin.

          • TruthvLIes

            Judging by your answer, no you haven’t thought about the passing of horrible and destructive judgement that the homosexual thought police do on a daily basis.

            And judging by your answer you have no intention of facing up to the reality of the intolerance, bigotry and hate of the homosexual thought police.

            As they say, the truth hurts and if you hate the truth, the truth is hate.

    • TruthvLIes

      If everyone minded thier own business the two potential suicides at the school I taught in would have been suicides, not potential. They didn’t happen because two students alerted me to the fact and I was able to step in and prevent the suicides.

      • Jin Jin

        Oh, I bet that helped you stroke your ego. Yes, if someone is about to take their life, you should intervene. Who someone sleeps next to at night, on the other hand, is not your business.
        Are you really too dense to differentiate?

    • Royce E. Van Blaricome

      I’d suggest getting a Dictionary or Googling “conventional relationships” because you obviously have no clue what that means.

      • Jin Jin

        Just because a relationship isn’t conventional, doesn’t make it wrong or unfulfilling. It also doesn’t make it your business.
        The gay people I know have pretty comparable relationships to the straight people I know.
        Get your head out of your butt.

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          Thank you for completely discrediting yourself and showing everyone what a desperately wicked heart you have (Jer. 17:9) as your own words reveal (Matt. 15:18, Lk 6:45)

          And thank you for showing how it’s pretty much utterly impossible for the spiritually-dead God-haters to have a civil discourse.

          Just because you think that something isn’t wrong or is fulfilling doesn’t make it so. Wrong is wrong, no matter how many ways ya wanna paint it and Truth is truth.

          As for “fulfilling”, we’ll see how “fulfilled” you are when you spend ALL Eternity in torment. Then we’ll see who really fits the description of your last comment.

          • Jin Jin

            Ooh, I’m shaking in my boots! You know what, I have a lot of love in my heart. I try to be a good person. If there’s someone ready to pass judgement on me when my number is up, it won’t be up to you where I go. And to presume anything else makes you a hypocritical, cherry picking Christian and yet another example of why I don’t care what you THINK you know. You’re not in the clear yourself, watch your step, you’re being awful self righteous.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            You wouldn’t know what Love is if He was standing in front of you. And Jeremiah 17:9 describes your heart perfectly.

            And you PROVE that with your own words, “I try to be a good person.” Guess who gets to define “good”? In your mind the same person who gets to define “love”. Your god. The person who looks back at you in the mirror.

            Unfortunately, it is GOD who has ALREADY decided and you are NOWHERE near being “good” or “loving”.

            Ah yes, throw out the “self righteous”. It’s just exactly like the “holier than thou”. The oh so typical response by those desire and choose to cling to their sin.

            NEWSFLASH: Born Again Christians like myself KNOW where we are going and that it NOT because of our righteousness but what Christ has done and because of the Salvation God gives to those who have surrendered as a slave to Christ as their Lord & Master.

            And no, it’s not up to me as to where you go. But it is up to me to tell you where it’s already been decided that you’ll go and that is straight into the Lake of Fire IF you don’t surrender to Christ. How many verses would you like for me to cherry pick for you and provide?

            And btw, IF you have any fear of the Lord at all you would be shaking in your boots. But hey, go ahead and mock and scoff while you can. That day will come and then you WILL BE most RIGHTEOUSLY and PERFECTLY judged where you’ll reap the due penalty for that too.

          • Jin Jin

            I’m really not even reading this stuff but ugh you guys are so incredibly clueless. You are beyond a doubt insane. I know what love is- you are definitely not coming from a place of love. No one in this thread is. It’s incredibly sad how you can’t see this, and you think you’re on the side of “good”. I can’t help you, and obviously your Jesus isn’t able to, either. I wish all of you nothing but the best, but I need to bow out. What sad, misdirected hearts.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            I’m really not even reading this stuff but ugh you guys are so incredibly clueless. You are beyond a doubt insane. I know what love is- you are definitely not coming from a place of love.

            It’s incredibly sad how you can’t see this, and you think you’re on the side of “good”. I can’t help you, and obviously Jesus isn’t able to, either since you choose to reject Him and worship yourself.. What a sad, misdirected heart.

          • TruthvLIes

            A good idea that you are bowing out as obviously you are out of your depth when it comes to talking about what really matters. Trusting your own esoteric emotional feelings is a recipe for disaster because as we know emotions are a dangerous method of determining right and wrong.

          • Jin Jin

            Oh, in response to your scriptures: “I don’t not like green eggs and ham! I will not eat them, Sam I Am!”

    • Royce E. Van Blaricome

      “I won’t judge you for being contradictive, blind zealots without and ounce of critical thought.”

      Oh yeah, that’s a real non-judgmental statement there! LOL That’s what Jesus would call a Giant Sequoia Tree sticking outta your eye socket.

      Thanks for proving Jesus right again and, btw, if you had one ounce of critical thought in you, you wouldn’t have made that very statement.

      Now, practice what you preach and go mind your own business!

  • GraceAlexander

    Correlation =/= causation. repeat 10,000,000,000 times

    Gay people kill themselves becasue you Christians make their lives a living hell. Not because we are gay. GFYS.

    • TruthvLIes

      Sorry Grace, but that is beat up by homosexuals to garner pity and encourage a victim mentality. I have just seen the figures for youth suicide that have come out for my country and the majority are not homosexuals. In the school that I taught in, we had two potential suicides and neither were homosexuals. For every homosexual that wants to suicide there are 10 that want to that are not homosexual.

      Any programme in schools to reduce bullying and suicide should focus on non homosexuals as they are by far the most likely to. In case you did not know, you can be bullied because you are too tall, too short, too fat, too thin, too awkward, not popular, not a jock, not handsome, insecure and so on and so on.

      To say homosexuals are more likely to suicide is just not true. And to say homosexual suicide is everyone else’s fault is just simply not true. I wrote a paper on the subject and presented it to a government seminar and my research showed that the main cause that homosexuals suicide is due to the rejection that they suffer at the hands of other homosexuals.

      They have been led to believe that the homosexuals way of life is the answer to all their dreams and when they plunge in they find it is anything but. The promotion of homosexuality by militant homosexuals and society that it is normal is the worst thing that could have happened to the struggling homosexual as they soon find out that for the majority it is dog eat dog and the devil take the hindmost.

      For every homosexual that claims a loving relationship there are hundred out there trying to make sense of it all as they compete for the sex they crave.

      • Royce E. Van Blaricome

        Well said. VERY well said.

        The “that is beat up by homosexuals to garner pity and encourage a victim mentality” is spot on and, unfortunately, has been all too successful here in the USA. The lovey dovey overly grace-oriented unbalanced Christians have fallen for the PC nonsense and in an effort to not offend at all cost they’ve succumbed to the “You’re a Hater and you are the reason people kill themselves” baloney.

    • Chuck

      Further, by that logic, shouldn’t Christians, who are the most reviled,
      mocked, ridiculed people on this planet, have extremely high suicide
      rates? No one dares make fun of gays anymore–they’ll lose their jobs, etc.

      • TruthvLIes

        And say something that a homosexual doesn’t like because it is the truth and you wil be up before the Human Rights Commission before you can say Jack Robinson.

      • JPablo

        “the most reviled, mocked, ridiculed people on this planet…”? Really? The last time I checked it is Christians who are trying to dictate every aspect of life through laws: creationism in schools, limiting who can get married, who can shop where, women’s reproductive rights, how you should deal with the remains of an abortion, etc. It sounds to me like Christians whine about not being able to oppress others anymore every time someone dares to stand up for themselves. You Christians feel oppressed because we want you to stop oppressing others – the hypocrisy! If Christians would stay out of other people’s business a lot of conflict in this world would disappear.

        • Chuck

          ….and they are reviled for it. The media calls “not agreeing with LGBT platform” hate speech regularly. Christian businesses are forced to violate the consciences, but the clothing designers can refuse to clothe Melania Trump. Christ has been taken out of the public square, so much so that you almost never hear “Merry Christmas.” “Reproductive rights” is another name for infanticide. I’m right, you’re wrong.

        • TruthvLIes

          Yes really Pablo. An organisation that collects statistics from all around the world about persecuted people shows that christians are the top of the list. (In North Korea you can be thrown into jail for telling a joke about the leader in private (he has spies everywhere). You can be thrown into jail if you own a bible. You can be thrown into jail if you are caught praying.

          All over the world, the muslims have a vendetta against Christians especially those who were muslims and converted to christianity. In the Middle East, more Christians die at the hands of muslims than any other people.

          In Africa, Boko Haram (muslim) will attack anything that has the name christian on it.

          So yes Pablo, christians are the most persecuted people on earth.

          And in America, hardly a day goes by that the atheists are not suing christians for being Christians or government that mentions the word Christian.

          And if a christian says anything a homosexual doesn’t like because it is the truth, the delicate little snowflake goes running to the human rights commission shouting HATE!

          I do realise however that this is the truth but as homosexuals hate the truth and believe that the truth is hate, one is not going to accept reality because to do that means the whole edifice of homosexuality comes crumbling down as it is based on lies from start to finish.

          That would mean that we are right and you are wrong. God forbid!!

    • Gecks

      Shouldn’t Black slaves have been jumping off bridges in mass then? Why doesn’t the suicide statistics change much for gays in more inclusive accepting environments? Sounds like something deeper than external harassment.

  • ishkabibble

    Bible-humping dimwit.

  • TruthvLIes

    Note this Grace. “Even in a country with a comparatively tolerant climate regarding homosexuality such as Sweden,” observed the researchers, “same-sex married individuals evidence a higher risk for suicide than other married individuals.”

    If homosexuals are committing suicide because christians make their lives a living hell, how come Sweden, a country benign towards homosexuals have just as many suicides amongst homosexuals?

    Your claim is not logical.

    • Chuck

      Further, by that logic, shouldn’t Christians, who are the most reviled, mocked, ridiculed people on this planet, have extremely high suicide rates?

      • TruthvLIes

        Yes, definitely.

      • Brian Geary

        Don’t tell a Jew that; you know how they love to claim to be the world’s only victims.

  • TruthvLIes

    Jin Jin said ” Oh, I bet that helped you stroke your ego. Yes, if someone is about to take their life, you should intervene. Who someone sleeps next to at night, on the other hand, is not your business. Are you really too dense to differentiate?

    And are you too dense to realise that when decisions are made on the basis of who makes the decision, any decision is right and no decision is right. For a decision to be right it has to have a reference point from which it is judged.

    Without that I can say I think I will go out and kill someone today as It is my right to do what I want and no one has the right to say that I can’t.

    Or I could say I will go out and find me a boy and screw him because it is my right to do what I want and no one has the right to say I can’t.

    That is the permissive thinking that homosexuals want to foist on society so they can indulge in all manner of perversion without sanction. Since SSM was legalised in the USA, the North American Man Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) is now demanding legalised sex with children because they were born that way so they cannot do anything about it.

    A case of thinking up any excuse/reason to get what they want, bugger the child. (pun intended).

    I wish you would come up with something original instead of just parroting what the homosexuals thought police rabbit on about.

  • Walter C Boutwell

    These data have been available for years, of course. It has only been the politcal vitriol which has suppressed it. SOme organizations have succumbed to the pressure. The America Academy od Pediatrics, which due to its peculiar governance can have a small number of activist docs make policy statements without general agreement, years ago came out for gay adoptions despite the data against it.
    The American College of Pediatricians, maintaining their mission that they were an organization attempting to benefit children and not please adults, stuck with the DATA and has a policy statemtn c/w scientific data: adoption by homosexual parents leads to more tragedy that heterosexual, married parents.
    I am a member of both organizations
    Let the vitriol flow

    • TruthvLIes

      And a former President of the APA admitted that they had been invaded by the homosexual agenda so that what came out of the organisation was no longed based on scientific data. It reflected homosexual dogma.

      • Walter C Boutwell

        sorry. Got your abbreviations wrong. That is the AAP you are speaking about not the APA. I quite agree with you. It is why I resigned my membership. The organisation wasestablished forthe benefit of children. In the early 90’s it switched (due to its idiotic structure) to being a rights organizaton for parents– children be damned.

  • AshG

    Is a version of this article available that removes all digs, asides, and other barbed language and presents the quantitative data without personal ideological coloration?

    It’s sad that the data included in this article has to be separated out of wasted words of personal bias.

    • JPablo

      My thoughts exactly!

    • Gecks

      It’s sad that a commentary piece has ideological commentary?

      • AshG

        There’s ideological commentary, and then there’s elementary playground snark. I came to the article expecting ideological commentary, not digs, euphemistic and/or derogatory language, or whitewashing of a very broad and diverse world view.

        Maybe my idea of conservative commentary is a little too, well, conservative.

        • Gecks

          I missed derogatory language you’re referring to, and it sounds like you just want a science paper. The data is there screaming loud and clear, far above the commentary of the article and there are highlighted links inside the article for all to follow to the raw data.

          • TruthvLIes

            Of course Matt Barber never does otherwise, but the opposition, when it has no answer to the facts, descend into rubbish comment, pejorative language, ad hominen comment and a holier than thou attitude to hide the fact that they can’t handle the truth which is not surprising as their whole being and way of life is based on lies.

  • JPablo

    Matt Barber, you are citing the article by Mayer and yet you seem to not grasp, or perhaps you did not read his conclusion. Why do you not also present his conclusion in your article?

    • kingsleyphoenix

      You are free to give Mayer’s conclusions. Why don’t you? The article on Sexuality and Gender recaps some of what scientific research established. If you are implying that the established research and Mayer’s (as well as McHugh’s) conclusions are at variance so state. There seems to be a lot of cognitive dissonance going around these days.

      • Oofduh

        You need to look up cognitive dissonance because you don’t even use it correctly. Seems to be a lot of ignorance going around these days.

      • Oofduh

        You need to look up cognitive dissonance because you don’t even use it correctly. Seems to be a lot of ignorance going around these days. It means someone is doing something that goes against their values. For example, you work in an abortion clinic because it’s the only job you can get, but you have to feed your children. You hate abortion, but you have to feed your kids. THAT is cognitive dissonance.

      • JPablo

        Was I talking to just anyone? This question was directed at Barber. I’m sure you’ve read the conclusion as well. I will not engage with someone who will be intellectually dishonest.

        • TruthvLIes

          In case you didn’t know, you directed your comment to everyone who reads this column. If you want to talk to Matt Barber do so. All you have to do is go to Barbwire and you can email him personally.

  • Chuck

    By the logic that LGBTQ use about their suicide rates–Christians should be the most suicidal people on the planet–every day, all our views are mocked, ridiculed, and even tried in court.

    • TruthvLIes

      And murdered Chuck, but that doesn’t matter as they are Christians who are considered the scum of the earth by militant homosexuals. So much loving happening from them isn’t there.

      • Oofduh

        You act like only militant homosexuals exist, and only leftist homosexuals, and only atheist homosexuals. How can you not see, you are no less divisive than militants, and no less radical. It doesn’t appear God is giving you much support for tranquility in your life.

        • TruthvLIes

          And all that rant is proof that you are born homosexual? I would say it is more a case of you haven’t got a leg to stand on so you make up the story as you go along and being abusive and pejorative is your main method of defence.

    • Oofduh

      That’s silly.

  • Oofduh

    There is no evidence they are not born that way. What an utterly ridulous opening point saying there is no evidence they are born that way.

    • TruthvLIes

      There is no evidence that you are born homosexual. I have asked about 200 homosexuals for evidence that they are born homosexuals and the response was zip, zilch zero. One did actually say that he was homosexual so that was evidence you are born homosexual. That is like me saying that I fly planes so that is evidence I was born a pilot.

      There is plenty of evidence out there that you are not born homosexual if you are not afraid of the truth. if you are and most homosexuals are then denial is the only way you can deal with it.

      By the way, I went to the annual conference for homosexuals and in one workshop the presenter, a homosexual said ” we have to claim that we are born homosexual even though we are not, then we can make our demands a civil rights issue.”

      I guess he was not afraid of the truth.

      • C.J.

        born gay is just away for society to accept this perverted lifestyle. no truth behind the born gay theory

        • TruthvLIes

          Yes C.J. It is clear if you read history that if anyone wanted to change history they started out by telling a lie and telling it enough times so that it becomes the truth.

          Hitler was a classic example. He rose to fame because he was going to fix the economic woes of Germany. He never said anything about producing a superior Aryan race. Once he got the top spot, he started his war on anyone not Aryan. But that did not matter because he was going to fix the economy wasn’t he.

          If homosexuals claim they are born homosexual then it stands to reason that they are not.

  • David Worley

    Read the Facts and Findings on whether or not Couples drawn together in Nature are mated for Procreation and the Survival of the Species.. Question queer exceptions where nature cross-wired individuals in their gender identification. There is no doubts that Nature makes Queer individuals. They are Not the Normal and never should Normal be altered to replace or equal What is Normal in Nature. We as a civil society should always make “Special” accommodations for the Freaks who can not function in a normal society.. Exceptions are a fact. Just this season, I personally viewed a Hermaphrodite White-tailed Deer in a meat packing house. This Deer was a Female with a functioning Vagina and in addition had a Male Penis. This Deer had Developing Antlers that was delayed in development in they were still “In Velvet”. , They do exist and this proves Nature is not perfect.

  • Robert Jones

    I find treatment of Gays eerily similar to long-ago treatment of lepers.

    That made me wonder: Are there even more similarities?

    What if “being gay” is due to the action of an infectious agent? Like leprosy.

    I know. How can that be? Then, it occurs to me that recently the medical community believed that stomach ulcers were caused by “stress.” A bacteria? Never!

    Given how little we know about viruses and prions, it is not unreasonable to suspect that they can cause unlikely changes in human behavior. (For an interesting article on this subject, see: “How Your Cat Is Making You Crazy” in “The Atlantic”

    • TruthvLIes

      Except for one important point. lepers were herded together in leper colonies to keep them away from the populace so they did not infect others

      Nowhere have homosexuals been herded into colonies so that they don’t infect others with HIV/AIDS. If fact, back in the 70’s they demanded the right to infect innocent people with AIDS though the blood bank as Bryce Courtney’s son found out. He was a haemophiliac and had to have blood transfusions every day. He contracted AIDS through infected homosexual blood so the blood back put a moratorium on homosexuals donating blood until they could find a way of eliminating the infection.

      What did the homosexuals do? They protested that their civil rights were being violated. Bugger that Bryce’s son died at the age of 23 from AIDS, and anyone getting infected with aids which was a life sentence then. All that mattered was their right to infect.

  • rfnorman

    Purely religious propoganda. The only way you can read real research and come too these conclusions is to have a preconceived notion and look for isolated bits to support it.

    • TruthvLIes

      I guess you haven’t realised yet that what homosexuals say is pure homosexual propaganda. That is all you have when your main aim in life is to live a lie and deny that the truth is the truth. I find all over the internet that the main means of rebuttal of the truth by homosexuals is to appeal to ad hominen comment, pejorative language and obscenities.

      Ask them for evidence and they throw their hands up in horror and shout “EVIDENCE. WHAT IS THAT. WE DON’T NEED EVIDENCE. WE HAVE LIES AND PROPAGANDA. AS LONG AS WE KEEP BELIEVING THAT WE DON’T NEED EVIDENCE”

  • rfnorman

    The notion that there are men and women and nothing between is just not supported in observed reality. Same sex attraction is observed in countless other species that likely do not have the ability to make a conscious decision about it. I suppose if I am born a chimera with both male and female DNA, I am a sinner whether I am with a man or a woman. But let’s be honest. Those of you who believe being gay is an aberration or a sin are not really interested in considering another point of view. I have a master’s degree in social work and have worked with psychiatrists, psychologists, other social workers and nurses for over 20 years. Not one of them would agree with the conclusions of this author.

    • Gary

      No, I don’t have an open mind. The issue is settled. God said homosexuality is perverted sin. For me, that settles the issue. People either agree with God, or they don’t. And there are consequences either way. Good consequences if you agree with God, and bad consequences if you disagree with God.

    • C.J.

      My belief that homosexuality is a sin is not an opinion, it comes straight from the Bible. I did not choose to believe that homosexuality is a sin. my view comes from the Bible

      • rfnorman

        Hi C.J. Many people see what is written in the Bible and do not share your view. They have a different opinion. You have yours. I’m okay with you having a different take on it than me. A key difference between your line of thought and mine is regarding what we regard as authoritative information. For you it is the Bible and the interpretation you believe is correct. For me, it is science and reason.

        • Joel1245

          Actually, it’s not science for you rfnorman. When science says it’s not inborn or innate, people like you will reject it and call it ‘junk science’ because it doesn’t fit your belief system. The truth is, there were atheists before Darwin came along. People do what they want. It really isn’t about science and reason at all.

          • TruthvLIes

            Have to agree with you Joel. Over the last few years, I have found that atheism, homosexuality and secularism is a sinking sand and tends to move this way or that depending what it is they have to defend. When you base everything on lies as atheists and the like do, they do not have the benefit of concrete reasoning as morality is whatever you make it. What is popular to day could be out of fashion tomorrow. That means that reasonable argument does not exist because rapidly changing ideas is not a reasonable argument because it does not allow you to form a solid set of beliefs. You live for today and nothing else.

          • rfnorman

            Seems to me you are very fond of calling anyone who holds a different opinion than yours liars or stupid or unstable. Incidentally, I have a very solid set of beliefs. As far as morality, I have believed for as long as I can remember in treating people with decency and respect. I believe in being kind and living up to your word. I believe in service to your country and taking care of your family. From your description of a liberal, you would think I am the devil incarnate, set out to drag everyone into hell. No-one who knows me, or my liberal and conservative friends would think anything of the sort.

          • TruthvLIes

            I have a very solid set of beliefs, so you claim. But the fact is I have been told on numerous occasions by atheists, secularists and homosexuals that belief is something that you make up as you go along and no one person’s beliefs are relevant to another persons beliefs as they are personal. It is known as moral relativism. If I believe that homosexuality is a sin and the homosexual believes it is way of life, accordion to them I am not allowed to call it a sin because that is homophobic. If that is the case and I am not going to call them liars, then their belief system is built on sinking sand because what is relevant today is dead in the water tomorrow.

            Apart from the fact that research is not based on what one person says or does. The fact that you claim you have a solid set of beliefs does not mean everyone has a solid set of beliefs. From what I have been told by numerous atheists, secularists and homosexuals, their belief system is whatever they say it is and that can change from month to month.

            For example, I have been told that Darwin’s theory of evolution using the beaks of finches on the Galapagos Islands as proof is no longer credible. Probably why it is called a theory as that enables them to move the goalposts to suit their own particular take on things.

          • rfnorman

            Joel1245. I tend to put more weight in the opinions and the interpretations of the scientists who do the research and those who evaluate the research. Though Mr. Barber has cited some quotes from certain studies, they do not come to the same conclusions in this article. I don’t believe any of us are immune to bias. It is clear from Mr. Barber’s title of this article and especially the one that includes “Hating Jesus: The American Left’s War on Christianity,” that he has a very strong bias. Though I am not swayed quickly with any new piece of information as Mr. TrughVLies suggests I would, I have and will continue to adjust my understanding in response to clear and verifiable information, to the best of my ability.

          • TruthvLIes

            Bias is alive and well in the homosexual community. On SameSame a homosexual web site they rubbished everything that was true about homosexuality. For example they said it was rubbish that anyone could stop being homosexual, when it is obvious that it is not.

            They had found clear and verifiable information and if one care to take the blinkers off, the truth is out there but SameSame decided they were going to feed their bias rather than face the truth.

            Another example was a homosexual who became a drag queen. He was the belle of the ball because he was so good at it and was feted all over the place. Then disaster struck. He had an encounter with Jesus and was born again. He immediately gave up his homosexual way of life and being a drag queen.

            What did the homosexual community do? They shunned him. Called him all sorts of names. Claimed he was a shyster. Sent him death threats. Not one single person decided to investigate if it was really true. Amazing what you will do when you are biased.

          • TruthvLIes

            Despite claims to the contrary Joel, the atheists, secularists and homosexuals have a belief system as much as christians do. We believe God exists and is able to save us from our sin. They believe that God does not exist ans can do nothing to help us.

            We believe that all sin is forgiven at the cross, they believe that all sin is a moral concept that flows with the wind and can be applied or ignored according to their take on things.

            We believe that God has given us a set of guidelines to enable us to live life to the full. They believe that you make it up as you go along to suit your way of thinking.

            We believe that Jesus paid the price for our sin the cross and sets us free through his blood. They believe that sin is a religious concept that needs no salvation from.

            We believe that the day will come when Jesus will establish his New Jerusalem, where sin and sickness will cease to exist and is being prepared for those who are born again. They believe that when you die that is it.

            I could go on listing our beliefs and their beliefs, sufficient to say we live or die by them. Whether we live or die, is a choice that we make as God has given us a free will and he will not override it. As the saying goes “you pays your money and make your choice.”

            With us, there is nothing to pay as salvation is a free gift of God. With the others they will pay dearly as they are choosing to follow satan and the result of following him.

        • TruthvLIes

          Science and reason is pointless and useless as the bible says that the NATURAL man cannot discern the things of the spirit. And I emphasise the word CANNOT which means that one can come up with all sorts of reasons and all sorts of scientific ideas but they are not suitable to discern the things of the Spirit.

          Homosexuality is a spirit brought about by satan to distort God’s plan for society and families. Dealing with it is a spiritual exercise and using science or reason is to offer a lost cause to people who are emotionally dysfunctional that can only be healed through the power of the Holy Spirit, the same as I had rejection because I was an orphan and it took an encounter with the Holy Spirit to relive me of the rejection that controlled my life.

          Anyone with an unwanted same sex attraction I have dealt with have only been successful shedding the attraction when I have applied the Word of God and the power of the Holy Spirit to the situation. Sometimes it has been instant deliverance, sometimes it has been over a period of time. I don’t set the parameters, God does and I go with the flow.

          I do realise that the homosexual community have backed themselves into a corner by claiming you are born homosexual and therefore you can’t change, but the facts are it is a lie of the first order as many have been delivered of their unwanted same sex attraction and all the reasoning in the world by the homosexuals won’t change that.

          • rfnorman

            I’m sorry about the rejection you experienced and glad you found relief. My take on the matter of GLBT phenomena is that these differences are naturally occurring and not to do with a spirit brought on by satan. As regards reason, my point of view is that God gave me the ability to reason with intent for it to be used. Every post on this and every discussion forum including your post draws upon reason as people wrestle with issues and try to understand as well as possible.

          • TruthvLIes

            There is nothing natural about homosexuality as it is trying to fit a nut onto a nut, not a nut onto a bolt. God said he created us male and female and Jesus confirmed that in Matthew so over 6,000 years nothing has changed.

            What has changed is that man has given himself up to a lie that homosexuality is normal and natural, which it ain’t. Satan has done a fine job of deceiving people. As a result the claims made by homosexuality are all lies and because of that fact they have to keep inventing lies to cover the previous lies and when that happens you reason away the truth and believe the lie to be the truth.

            In fact, it gets so bad that you believe the truth is hate because you hate the truth. That is plain to see as when anyone speaks the truth they are immediately told by some homosexual that they are spewing hate (and intolerance and bigotry and are homophobic).

            The fact is, saying what you believe has nothing at all to do with fear of homosexuals or homosexuality which is what homophobic means. I realise that homosexuals have distorted the truth on this one and made it mean what it doesn’t mean but then that is just another example of living a lie.

            This happens because they do not have any truth on which to build their case. I have learnt that if you want to know what the truth is just believe the opposite to what the homosexual says. For example, they claim that homosexuals have a high suicide rate because of the rejection by society.

            As that is not the truth, I looked into it and discovered that the high suicide rate was occasioned by the rejection that they experienced by other homosexuals. When you have embraced an unnatural way of life, you put all your begs in one askit and when that doesn’t give you what you want (sex and more sex because sex equates to acceptance) you are on a downward spiral of depression and despair.

            It gets to the point that it becomes a case of life is not worth living so they end it all. The only way you can prevent it is to get them out of the homosexual way of life and show them that they can have abundant life through Jesus Christ. They don’t have to be controlled by their genitals.

            I had a case of one young man who used to go to a homosexual beat on the way home from work to get his daily dose of sex. He was referred to me for counsel and we met every Monday afternoon in a cafe. I am pleased to say that today he is married and has children.

            Fortunately he didn’t believe the lie that once you are a homosexual you are always a homosexual. Such an experience proves that homosexuality is not naturally occurring.

          • Kim Steinke

            God is speaking truth this lie that it is chosen is a lie. checkmate Satan

    • Grand_Old_Partier

      The notion that you can compare human behavior to animal behavior is simply a false dichotomy to normalize perverted behavior. Cannibalism is also an animal behavior, would you favor normalizing cannibalism for humans?

      I will acknowledge your alleged master’s degree in social work and counter with the doctorate degrees held by two actual scientists who work for, arguably, the world’s finest hospital. It’s appears that your conclusions are trumped with their focus research on actual data.

      • TruthvLIes

        I have to laugh when homosexuals proudly claim that there are 1500 species of animals who indulge in homosexual sex to justify their animalistic behaviour. Apart from the fact that if you watch two males in a tribe fighting it out to be supremo the purpose is to be have the pick of the females, not the males.

        Plus I point out there are some species of the animal kingdom, when they have mated the female eats the male so I ask them if they are going to eat their sex partner after having sex with him/her..

        So far, no one has offered an answer to that one.

        • Stan Mann

          Homosexual Pedophiles mention animal behavior a lot when defending their sexual behavior.
          I think once a human child has been abused they can become a homosexual.
          Sexuality can be damaged by abuse.
          No babies are born gay.
          They are abused that way.
          Once a human becomes homosexual you can’t sure them.
          Just like you can’t cure pedophiles.

          • TruthvLIes

            “Once a human becomes homosexual you can’t sure them.”

            I assume you mean can’t “cure” them.

            We may not be able to but God certainly can. If he can’t then he is not God and Jesus is not his son.

            I don’t find anywhere that it is said of Jesus “He can heal ALL your sicknesses and diseases, but not if you are a homosexual.”

            If you have one exclusion (of any kind), then Jesus failed in his mission on the cross.

            Jesus came to make us whole, regardless what our imperfections are. Having led several homosexuals to wholeness in Christ, your claim does not have ANY merit.

      • Kim Steinke

        These men are blinded by an awful hardening of the heart do to fear. Jesus spoke of Eunuchs

    • TruthvLIes

      And what are these species that you refer to?

  • Brian Geary

    Transgenderism is misogynistic. Men who claim they are women trapped in a man’s body reduce womanhood to nothing but shoes, hair, and makeup. If you ask these men how they know they are women, they never have a tangible answer; they can’t tell you what it is to be a woman except that they like women’s clothing, or liked playing with dolls as a kid – all of the things that decades ago we knew wasn’t innate, but socialized.

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