Are Christians Crying Wolf About Mistreatment and Marginalization?

By Denny Burk Published on December 23, 2017

Bethany Allen-Ebrahimian alleges in a Washington Post op-ed that Christians are crying wolf with claims of marginalization and persecution. She says those claims need to be vigorously challenged. Why have liberals failed to challenge them? She answers:

Why are we reluctant to challenge such claims? It’s the result of a tacit social contract, an uneasy truce after the 20th-century wars over science and the role of religion in the public sphere. According to this social contract, institutions outside the religious sphere will not use scientific methods to criticize religious beliefs, so long as those beliefs are not combined with sweeping political claims that extend far beyond the walls of the church.

Missing the Point in Astonishing Ways

This paragraph is astonishing on a number of levels:

Allen-Ebrahimian exemplifies the very reason conservative Christians are concerned about marginalization and mistreatment.

1. Allen-Ebrahimian claims there is a “tacit social contract” in which secularists will not use “scientific methods to criticize religious beliefs.” Really? I can hardly believe that she would make this claim. Has she read any of the contemporary debates between creationists, evolutionists and intelligent design advocates? The writings of the new atheists? To be sure, each side can give as good as it gets. But to say that Christian belief has been free to operate without scientific critique is just incredible.

2. Without realizing it, Allen-Ebrahimian exemplifies the very reason conservative Christians are concerned about marginalization and mistreatment. She says that Christians are free to practice their belief within the walls of the church but that they dare not do so “beyond the walls of the church.”

Right there is the problem. It’s the difference between freedom of worship and freedom of religion. Freedom of worship relegates religious observance to the church house. Freedom of religion — our nation’s first freedom in the Bill of Rights — allows believers to practice their faith outside the walls of the church in their work, community, etc.

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So for example, if a Christian baker doesn’t want to participate in a gay wedding, freedom of religion says he shouldn’t be forced to do so. But the freedom of worship folks believe that he can bake cakes however he wants at church. Outside the church, though, the state can use its coercive power to force him to violate his conscience and participate in gay weddings. It’s easy for Allen-Ebrahim to say “nothing to see here, move along.” She’s not the one facing public sanctions for believing what Christians have always believed about marriage.


Christianity is nothing if not a sweeping political claim: We believe that Jesus is Lord and that Caesar is not.

3. Allen-Ebrahimian claims that Christians can believe what they want so long as “those beliefs are not combined with sweeping political claims.” This is staggering. Christianity is nothing if not a sweeping political claim. We believe that Jesus is Lord and that Caesar is not. That is why we sing at this time of year that He is “King of kings and Lord of lords and he shall reign forever and ever.”

We don’t believe these words to be pie in the sky. We really do believe that our highest allegiance is to a crucified and raised Jewish man from Nazareth. We believe that He will judge the nations in righteousness, including the United States. We also believe that there will be sorrow for everyone who comes up short at that judgment. Those truths have sweeping implications for the way we live our lives now as citizens. And there are sweeping political implications for the way we view human dignity, justice, war and a host of other public issues.

Christians aren’t crying wolf or being paranoid about the challenges to religious liberty that are increasing nationwide. They are happening whether Allen-Ebrahimian acknowledges them or not. And her wish to banish religious observance from the public square is precisely why we are concerned.

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  • Concerned Christian

    Have you noticed that conservative christians hate:

    –Christians who believe embracing God’s love is far more important than embracing His wrath.
    –public education
    –college education
    –Black lives matters
    –the palestians
    –basically anyone or anything that requires independent thought.

    its a group that wants to act as if the only issues that matter are the ones they say matter. they show no empathy except for those that agree with them.
    conservative christians are not interested in helping anyone but themselves and they are not interested in building bridges. compromise has become worse than a racial or sexist epitaph.

    so i see why they feel marginalized. the world is moving forward whether they like it or not. if you have nothing to offer than you will be ignored. luckily this doesn’t apply to all Christians. only to those that are trying to force new wine into old wine skins.

    • Paul

      Fake News from a fake Christian

      • Concerned Christian

        thanks for the reminder.

        forgot that conservative christians also hate:
        –the media
        — non evangelical Christians

        yep, the marginalzation gets easier and easier to understand.

        • Paul

          Any Christian who supports homosexuality and abortion on demand is a fake. As for the rest of your babble, fake news.

          So yes, fake news from a fake Christian.

          • Concerned Christian

            it seems that conservative Christians have a hard time understnding the simple word called “choice”.

            by your logic anyone that voted for trump is a fake christian. he’s an unrepentent fornicator, adulterer, and clearly a lier.

            i believe people can make what ever decisions they want to make with their own lives. that is a God given right. there are of course consequences, but the choice is yours

            conservatives like throwing around individual rights as long as its the rights they believe you should have.

            i will gladly be called a fake christian if that mindset is an example of a “real” christian.

            luckily i dont have to make that choice. even the world understands how a “real” Christian sounds and acts.

          • Kevin Carr

            Since when does disagreement equal hate?Most Christians disagree with the things you cite because they are unbiblical. Can you show one verse of positive affirmation for abortion or homosexuality? You say choice, when does serving God and honoring Him with your life come into play and not just what you feel like doing? We make not be experiencing the persecution that many do in third world countries, but ask Kelvin Cochran, Barronell Stutzman if they have experienced persecution. Visit the Liberty Counsel, The Thomas Moore, and Alliance Defending Freedom websites and see if exists here.

            What is a real Christian?

          • Concerned Christian

            in all seriousness, i feel like I’m missing something in my explanation.

            if a politian got up and said that God doesn’t like your behavior and He has empowered me to control it, i think most would be terrified of someone like that.

            i personally believe that homosexuality is a sin. i also believe that fornication is as well. the same goes for abortion and living together outside of marriage.

            however, in none of those cases would i advocate paasing laws to make any of them illegal.

            scriptually, nothing gives me the right to control someone elses life. each person comes to Jesus of their own free will.

            i also believe that God, knowing that we’re in a sinful world, has given us the spiritural weapons to protect ourselves and promote His Word.

            Christians are not going to win a battle when the people who are engaged in those sins or behaviors feel that Christians hate them. they feel just as marginalized as christians do.

            the devil loves marginalized groups. they simple talk past each other.

            we have no record in the Bible, that im aware of, where someone felt marginalized after an encounter with Jesus. i don’t think people who encounter Christians today can say the same.

            it’s also a shame that the world has made christians feel marginalized

          • GPS Daddy

            The most important question, Concerned Christian, that Kevin asked was “What is a real Christian?

            >>nothing gives me the right to control someone elses life

            Law is all about putting limits on others. How far to do we need to go with “freedom” to see that what is thought of today as “freedom” is not really freedom? May I suggest the book “A Free People’s Suicide: Sustainable Freedom and the American Future” by Os Guinness.

            >> Christians are not going to win a battle when the people who are engaged
            in those sins or behaviors feel that Christians hate them. they feel
            just as marginalized as christians do

            The idea that if a person meets Jesus they will totally turn from their sin is a common one. If Christians today would just be more like Jesus then the world will turn from their sin… Yep, Christians today need to step up their game. Especially Christians in rich Western nations. But the idea that it all depends on how well a Christian represents Jesus is taking things too far. Way, way too far.
            How many in the 1st century meet Jesus and did not turn from their sin? They came face-to-face with the Son of God yet persisted in their sins. Jesus warns us that if they hate us to remember that they hated Him FIRST!!

          • Concerned Christian

            i disagree with the premise that laws are designed to put limits on people. they are designed to protect the public interest.

            for instance, there is no law against consenting adults drinking. however, we know that drinking leads to drinking and driving, sexual assaults, addiction and a whole host of other issues. however, the only law we really have against it is the legal limit for driving. thats because its a public interest concern.

            we dont criminalize behavior for the sake of restraining it.

            yes, not every one who met Jesus turned but enough did so that today millions have been saved. nothing restrains the Word from going forward.

            also, a real Christian is one that accepts Jesus as Lord and Saviour.

          • Kevin Carr

            Repentance, acceptance. The maturing Christian, must be a disciple and is told to make disciples, can’t be done by compromising. Not that you have to purposely be offensive, but sometimes if you stand for Christ, you will be.

          • Concerned Christian

            we live in a country with the stated goal that all men have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

            we’re not compromising by sharing our beliefs while at the same time allowing them to pursue their own happiness.

            i realize that you may not see it the same way but thanks for sharing your points of view.

          • Andrew Mason

            Except the redefinition of marriage raises questions about whether Christians can ethically engage in government defined marriage. If marriage is defined by the government as a recognised homosexual union, or authorised union of an approved man and woman, what Christian would want to be engaged in a homosexual relationship? There are Christians and denominations now talking about abolishing government approved marriages and switching to an ecclesiastical model. Should that occur – as far as I’m aware no church has made the switch, then society will start to fracture. In the future Christians may ‘shack up’ according to the government whilst being married according to God and the Church. The conflicting definitions will cause problems.

          • Concerned Christian

            i have more faith than that. every person wants the one person that they share their life with.

            in a lot of ways, marriage is the most selfish act that we make. you’re saying to the person and everyone else that this person is mine.

            that will not change. it is part of who we are.

          • Kevin Carr

            Faith in what?

            Is that how God designed marriage, as a selfish act? Maybe your view needs adjustment.

          • Andrew Mason

            As Kevin says, more faith in what? And what does wanting a person have to do with anything?

            If you consider marriage a selfish act perhaps you need to rethink what marriage is? Consider traditional marriage vows – to love, honour, and obey for instance. How is that about being selfish? Is serving another a matter of selfishness?

          • Ken Abbott

            CC, you have it exactly backwards. In marriage, ESPECIALLY one entered into with biblical thinking and motives, one partner says to the other (and everyone else): “I am yours.”

          • GPS Daddy

            by putting limits on people.

            >>also, a real Christian is one that accepts Jesus as Lord and Saviour

            Thats a canned answer.

          • Concerned Christian

            John 3:16
            Romans 10:9-10

          • GPS Daddy

            What do those verses mean in your own words? I have found many atheists that argue the way you do and they have tried to present themselves as a Christian.

          • GPS Daddy

            Well, Concerned Christian, since you can’t/or are not willing to put those verses into your own words then lets try something different. In your own words what is the gospel and what does it mean to you?

          • Kevin Carr

            Many of the apostles were run out of town(s) because they preached Christ, all but John was murdered for it, he was banished to Patmos. The Bile does tell us we are to be salt and light in society. There are some Christians (not all) that have a “I hate all non-christians” approach, but many don’t. We are to engage the culture but not become like it. There isn’t a move to control people’s lives in the sense you say, but I also don’t want certain things or behaviors forced on me, I will tolerate but I expect toleration in return. There are some controls exercised on people, such as laws against stealing, speeding. While God doesn’t exact those punishments, the way he feels about homosexuality, adultery and many other sins is that they deserve death. Christ was/is our stand-in, if you choose to accept him. There is also the law of the harvest Galatians 6.

            Is it okay for a man to lose his job as a fire Chief all because he wrote a men’s devotional with a page and a half dealing with the sin of homosexuality? He got is cleared through his superiors beforhand, there were no cases of him discriminating against anyone in the city’s fire depts. Because one person found out about it, he lost his job. If he had given affirmation of homosexuality he would still be employed. I may not agree with you but to demand affirmation or I’m fired,

          • Concerned Christian

            i realize that we dont see eye to eye. i dont see how someone wanting to marry deprives me of my rights.

            also, for the police chief, we would not accept discrimination against someone on the basis of race, creed, sex, or national origin. so when christians make this argument that they basically have the right to discrimnate, it smacks against everything we believe as Americans. saying that my belief system makes you unacceptable to me is a tough sale.

            this is what needs to be taken into account. i feel that conservative Christians are needlessly closing the door on those who need them because.they are consumed with the fear of losing rights.

          • Kevin Carr

            That wasn’t the point of the article or your original post, in the end what does God say about it and do you stand with Him or the world. The Fire Chief did not discriminate against anyone, some LGBT person didn’t like the fact he wrote a devotional that dealt truthfully, with the subject of homosexuality and the city fired him, don’t try and switch that around.

            Standing for truth and the word of God is not closing the door? Has it occurred to you that the ones that don’t want to hear it are the ones closing doors?

            In the end who do you stand with? When God says these things are sin, where do you stand, for or against? How about making accommodation for the sin of adultery, slander, malice, gossip, lying, cheating, stealing.

            Does discipleship and making disciple fit for you? Does sanctification, does being salt and light? When Jesus spoke to people about their sin, he didn’t soft pedal it, he didn’t accommodate it. If a person is lost you don’t go out of your way to offend, but even God says his word will be and offense, Will lost people ever hear from you that they are sinners in the hands of and angry God, or do you just see them and say “Oh well, doesn’t affect me” .

          • Concerned Christian

            the chief won his argument based on private free speech. thats the same criteria that should apply to everyone. not simply to christians.

            lgbt and abortion are the only ones that you’re attempting to criminalize. are you willing to criminalize all the sins in the Bible or just the ones you don’t like? standing for truth is more then pulling out the sins you don’t like.

            I’ve said this before, churches know far more non lgbt sinners, so is this a stance for God or a cultural stance against gays?

            i gave an entire list of issues that non lgbt people are going through. all anyone on this thread has focused on is gays and abortion. these might be the most important issues to the church but is it to everyone else? is the church a positive force for any of them?

            if you look at a starving man who’s starving because of his own laziness. who will they go to the person that tells them the truth about their situation or the person that gives them food?

            I’m simply saying that people will gravitate to the ones that can meet their needs. building bridges is not compromise, it’s a requirement.

          • Kevin Carr

            I’m not attempting to criminalize anything, and exactly who is? You brought those up. If one is starving because they are lazy, what then do you do with “if a man does not work, he should not eat”? If one is starving due to circumstances beyond his/her control, sure feed them, don’t enable laziness. It doesn’t matter if it is abortion or homosexuality, or other issues, you seem willfully blind to Christians personally or organizations that do build bridges with non-christians, and only see flaws and have venom for. At certain times you do have to take a stand and be salt to preserve the right about the culture and that may require offending some, If you stand for what is godly you may offend, where do you stand? Again where does discipleship, sanctification and being salt and light fit with you?

            As to Chief Cochran, he should have never lost the job in the first place, he did not get that back. There are others that have lost much. Where will you be if (and it could happen) if we get to the point like those Libyan Christians that were executed simply for their faith in Christ? “well it doesn’t affect me”.

          • Paul

            same old junk, different day. Killing a kid because they are inconvenient isn’t a right given by God.

          • Concerned Christian

            then what is the punishment? kill the mother? throw her in jail? what exactly do we do to the person that conservative Christians could care less about?

          • Paul

            Kill the kid, kill the mother. You’re all about killing someone, an agent of death. And to think you claim to carry the banner of Christs love. Like I said, fake Christian.

          • Concerned Christian

            that’s not an answer.

          • Paul

            Correct. It is exposing and rejecting your false dilemma of death.

          • Concerned Christian

            no, it’s what conservatives in general do.

            during the election, trump said jail time. conservative christians realized that this was a non starter and he backed down.

            so i don’t expect an answer to a tough question. i expect what conservatives do best. deflect, deflect, and when that doesn’t work, deflect and insult.

          • Paul

            Your first comment in this article was an insult, spare us playing the victim now.

            We’ve been over all this in another comment exchange, I’ve already stated I and my church are involved in helping women in crisis pregnancy, and we’re far from alone in these efforts. But you persist in your lies that evangelical Christians don’t care. And what help do you offer? The ‘choice’ to kill kids? Oh that’s right, you don’t personally think it is right but who are you to impose your ethics on another. Such hogwash.

            Your moral high ground is a sewer. If there is a basic aspect to civil society it is setting expectations that people shouldn’t be violent to other innocent people. But violence is exactly what abortion is to its victim. You’re failing to protect the most innocent in our society. Worse yet you’re advocating for the continued death toll, and then make a mockery of the Christian faith by claiming it is an expression of Christ’s love.

            Like I said earlier, fake news from a fake Christian.

          • Concerned Christian

            in my original post i gave a list. you boiled that list down to abortion forgetting every thing else.

            that’s fine. I’m not afraid of defending my position. so I’ll ask again, should a woman face jail time if she has an abortion?

            your using the Bible to justify making abortion illegal. if thats the case, you should be able to state who should be punished.

            do you only have insults or do you have an answer? can you give a real answer or just another bold insult?

          • Paul

            Oh please, your list was fully intended to inflame. I didn’t neglect the reat of your pathetic list, it was fully addressed in the statement ‘fake news’.

            As for your punishment, why do want the option in society where kids are punished with a death sentence for their parents sexual behavior choices? This issue starts there so I’ll let you go first.

          • Concerned Christian

            again, you keep answering a question with a question. what happens to the woman? the difficulty in giving the answer says it all?

            you know everytime someone says something that conservatives don’t like its inflammatory.

          • Paul

            Now who is dodging the question.

          • Concerned Christian

            wow, you’re almost as good as trump!

            this is the pro life delima especially for pro life women. make abortion illegal, jail any doctor that performs one, but what to do to the woman that has one.

            as trump found out jailing the woman is a non starter. when you can jail the instigator/perputrator of the crime, then we can talk.

          • Paul

            I have no dilemma, it’s quite simple. Stop the industry of killing kids because they are inconvenient. The smoke you’re blowing is simply trying to give your hideous position cover.

          • Andrew Mason

            Except there is no choice – someone is choosing to kill. Why insist that there is a moral difference between a mother killing her unborn child and a father killing his 8 year old son, or his wife? Either murder is wrong, or it’s not.

            Voting for Trump is not unBiblical.

            Some choices are ours, others are explicitly deemed contrary to God’s will. Scripture tends to define which are which.

          • Concerned Christian

            so the woman who gets an abortion should have to go to prison?

          • GPS Daddy

            There is one person(s) in the abortion process that clearly commits murder: the doctor and assistants. Do you think that God will not hold them accountable for murder?

          • Andrew Mason

            Should the woman who kills her 9 year old have to go to prison?

    • LgVt

      Have you noticed that orthodox Christians hate:

      –The conduct of Christians who embrace a particularly destructive and distorted form of lust, explicitly condemned in Scripture as an abomination (Lev 18:22) and the fruit of idolatry (Rom 1:22-27)
      –Institutionalized indoctrination of the young in a biased agenda explicitly hostile to Christianity
      –State-sponsored mass infanticide
      –Race-bating lynch mobs, calling for kangaroo courts and automatic guilty verdicts before even examining the evidence
      –Terrorist regimes, who consistently reject any and every effort at peace in favor of more bloodshed, and then try to portray themselves as the victims
      –The abuse of science and coercion of scientists, demanding predetermined results in the service of an agenda that openly denigrates humanity as a cancer upon the earth and calls for our own extinction
      –Basically anyone or anything that operates in bad faith and trades in lies to overcome their own deficiencies in the marketplace of ideas

      Fixed that for you.

      • Concerned Christian

        in none of those points can you point to anything constructive that conservative christians are doing to assist people who are engaged in those behaviors.

        will gays, the women considering abortion, the victims of actual racism, the people who terriost manipulate, the victims of those that act in bad faith find any comfort in the church?

        will Christians stop hating science long enough to actually go into the field to give a different perspective?

        conservative christians are so busy trying to undermind the perceived instigator that they’re forgeting about the real victim.

        all the instigator is doing is filling a void that Christians are failing to address.

        when blacks and women reached out for help in the sixities, who extended a hand?

        when gays reached out, who extended a hand? when people in the middle east reached out who extended a hand?

        if you didnt extend the hand then that just might be why they feel marginalized.

        • LgVt

          Talk about moving the goalposts. You started off with a slanderous list of bullet points that are supposed to be why everyone hates orthodox Christians. (The term, incidentally, is orthodox Christians–Christians who actually believe what their faith teaches, as opposed to heretics–not “conservative” Christians.) I rewrote the list the reflect what’s really going on, what Christians actually oppose–with good reason–and all of sudden you’re now complaining instead that they’re not doing “anything constructive.”

          Allow me to cut this unproductive discussion off at the knees.

          I could run down a laundry list of ministries that Christians operate to help people, but that won’t satisfy you. And the reason it won’t satisfy you is because before any of those ministries, what Christians have to offer is Christ. And offering Christ starts with offering his message–and Christ’s message starts with a call to repentance.

          What you want Christians to do is to stop calling for people to repent of homosexual acts. What you want Christians to do is to stop calling for people to repent of having abortions. What you want Christians to do is to endorse sin, embrace the fallen Prince of this world, and stop making people uncomfortable on the road to damnation.

          Christ spoke of false teachers like you in Matthew 18:6 and Luke 17:2. If you do not turn away from your error, it would be better for you if you were to have a large millstone hung around your neck, and be hurled into the sea.

          Do not bother responding to this post. You are a troll, and I am done with you.

          • Kevin Carr

            I like your post, better than I answered.

          • Concerned Christian

            this article is about christians feeling marginalized.

            if your argument is stamp out sin with total disreguard for the sinner, then you have a losing propsition.

            you can’t insult that away!

          • GPS Daddy

            You did not in any way deal with what LgVt actual wrote. Try again.

          • Concerned Christian

            well, he asked me not to.

            but what do feel i need to respond to?

          • GPS Daddy

            Re-read it.

          • Concerned Christian

            i did. what point do ypu want me to answer?

          • GPS Daddy

            If you not going to really engage LvGt’s comment thats your choice.

    • JP

      Homosexuality, transgenderism and homosexual “marriage” is not the world “moving forward” but the world going perverted.

      • Concerned Christian

        if you can only see the bad than thats the issue. society is changing. just like my generation dealt with interracial issues and women in the workplace. this generation is dealing with their own set.

        as the church did very little in my generation to work through these issues, will it be the same for this current one?

        if so, thats the source of the feeling of being marginalized

        • JP

          You don’t affirm sicknesses and try to claim its some kind of civil rights issue.

          • Concerned Christian

            no, you stick your head in a hole and pretend its not real

          • GPS Daddy

            Nice personal attack there.

          • Concerned Christian

            you mean the ones calling me a fake christian?

          • GPS Daddy

            No, the one that you did. You come here claiming to such a high and mighty spiritual Christian looking down on the rest of us and then engage in piety personal attacks..

          • What an interesting moniker you use. As SJWs always lie, you are obviously neither truly concerned nor Christian. You simply bellyfeel duckspeak the dayorder to make yourself feel doubleplusgood.

          • Concerned Christian

            wow, you got me

          • michael

            Nope .no one has a monopoly of the truth in the realm of politics.

          • JP

            That is right. Its a real and imaginary sickness.

        • Andrew Mason

          God is quite clear that homosexuality, and abortion are evil. Feminism, depending on what you mean, may also be wrong. The BLM is racist – we’re all descended from AdamNoah. The real Palestinians are the Jews. God is pro-science, but the issue is that the science label is being hijacked to advance ideology and beliefs. The issue isn’t that people are embracing independent thought, but that they are embracing group think that’s diametrically opposed to what God has decreed to be right.

          God has deemed homosexuality, amongst other things, to be evil. Nothing can change that. Western society can however to decide to embrace an anti-God agenda a persecute those who serve God. 🙁

          • Concerned Christian

            so what should happen to gays and women who have abortion? if they are evil then we should have laws that make their behavior criminal?

            if BLM is racist, then their concerns are to be discarded?

            if God is pro science then are the issues due to a lack of christian scientist? if thats the issue then shouldnt christians be advocating that people go into science rather than critizing those that did?

            everyone affected by the issues i mentioned are not evil or racist. they are real people looking for answers. if the church can’t answer them, then satan will be glad to.

          • Their behavior was illegal until just a few years ago, when Progressive/Marxist/Democrat judges perverted justice by declaring the will of the people and thousands of years of history to be invalid because reasons.

          • If they are happy to accept Satan’s answers because they don’t like the Church’s answers about personal responsibility and accepting God’s word and will, then those people are, by definition, evil.

            Christians don’t criticize actual science. They do criticize charlatans spouting nonsense and calling it science. (Global cooling/warming/climate change is a good example. Most of the “social sciences” are antisocial nonsense and progressive/Marxist mind washing indoctrination.)

          • Andrew Mason

            You’re conflating conduct with people – a standard liberal error. Those who choose to engage in particular behaviours may be punished. Those who have unlawful intercourse with children, or kill born children are already punished. Why shouldn’t we simply make it unlawful to have intercourse with someone of the same gender, or to kill the unborn? An article I saw not so long ago suggested that something like 1:5 people favour the former, and I believe there would be more opposed to abortion.

            Being racist, or anything else, doesn’t mean concerns are automatically wrong. Hitler had some valid points for instance, it’s just that the evil he did largely negates the good he pursued.

            What issues? A recent article made the claim that something like 6% of Americans are evangelical, a larger proportion are non-evangelical, but the vast majority of those claiming to be Christian are nominal. Sorry can’t recall what article I read this in and irritatingly I can’t recall enough details to track it down in my history. Other religions comprise a similar percentage to evangelicals whilst ‘irreligious’ comprise between a fifth and a quarter of the population. Based on those figures actual Christians are quite reasonably a minority of scientists. The problem is that particular fields now have intolerant majorities who oppose ‘heresy’ in their field. For a known Christian to break into those fields would be nigh on impossible. While it would be good to have more Christians in science different fields can have greater or lesser beneficial impacts on society.

            I never said that everyone affected by public education, or science or … is evil or racist. I also get that people want answers. The problem is that some people demand answers that are acceptable to them as opposed to True. The fact that the church cannot give some people the answers they demand does not mean the church has failed – Jesus didn’t give the answers some wanted either.

    • Hello fellow hoomans. I too am a hooman, and enjoy doing many hooman things. Like hooman religion. I too am a believer in your hooman religion, and enjoy going to many interfaith hooman religion meetings. I have read several pages of the hooman religion book. I have one here somewhere, I think. It says that all hoomans must love and worship the great and glorious Zaklog empire. We are called by hooman deity to do so. You are a good hooman, aren’t you? So you must worship the great and glorious Zaklog emperor as a living god, and sacrifice unto him your hooman children.

      • Concerned Christian

        ah a fellow hooman who talks the talk.

        hail emperor Zak!

    • cestusdei

      Yeah tell that to the conservative Salvation Army which is feeding the poor. Maybe you are to busy at your antifa rally.

  • Charlene

    What alternative universe is this woman living in? I mean, granted, we aren’t being executed or thrown into prison yet, but imagine going for a job interview. Which do you think would most likely be the deal-breaker – “I’m gay” or “I’m an evangelical Christian”?

  • Bojaws Dubois

    After being threatened and beaten by the religious leaders of the day, Peter and John rejoiced. They were happy because they were though worthy to suffer for Jesus. That’s quite different from the christians of today who annoyingly whine and moan at the slightest perceived offense.

    • Please feel free to suffer for your beliefs. You do have beliefs, don’t you?

      • Bojaws Dubois

        Why do you care if I have beliefs? Are you writing a book or something?

    • cestusdei

      Tell that to Mary Stachowicz, no wait you can’t she was murdered for disagreeing with homosexuality. Never heard of her? Ask yourself why?

      • Bojaws Dubois

        The only incident this guy can think of was 15 years ago

        • cestusdei

          There are plenty of “incidents” of persecution of Christians out there. But thanks for showing us that you don’t mind the murder of elderly Christians who don’t agree with you.

  • Andrew Mason

    In short Allen-Ebrahimian holds that the marginalisation and persecution of Christians is perfectly legitimate and that Christians have no right to complain until they’re being arrested for their faith, people are regularly refused employment because they look Christian, or the president calls for Christianity to be banned. This threshold for persecution is on par with those nations which practice the most egregious forms of persecution. Why does she think anything less than extreme persecution isn’t valid? Why is she so prejudiced?

  • Well, what sort of behavior do you expect of a progressive Marxist feminist atheist who married a Muslim? Truth? Reason?

  • She’s wrong. Period. If she doesn’t want to live in a Christian country she can find a home in Saudi Arabia where she can enjoy all the religious freedom she wants.

  • Karen

    You want the moral authority of the early Christians and the political authority of the Romans. That is not possible. Also, people disagreeing with you or ignoring you is not persecution. Grow up.

    • cestusdei

      Yet when we disagree you threaten us with death, destroy our property, get us fired, seize our property, denigrate our faith, and silence any response. While you choke us you claim we are free to breath.

      • KarenJo12

        Do you have any examples of such incidents? Your unsupported assertions are not persuasive.

        • GPS Daddy

          Lets takes these one by one:

          >>Yet when we disagree you threaten us with death

          There is a pizzeria that is owned by Christians that the owners were asked to host a same-sex wedding. They politely declined indicating they do not allow such use of their pizzeria (for anyone). Never mind that they applied that same standard. The word got out (hmmm, by whom I wonder?) and they received lots of threats including death threats.

          >>destroy our property

          A Michigan business owner posted his opinion on issues on Facebook and then his business was vandalized. If I search I know I can find more examples.

          >>get us fired

          The former CEO of Mozilla (Firefox browser) gave money in support of CA marriage proposition and was later forced to resign.

          >>seize our property

          A florist in Oregon was “friends” with two gay men. They asked the owner (an elderly woman) to provide the flowers for their wedding. She kindly and politely refused. They pressed a lawsuit (hmmm, did I mention that they were suppose to be friends?) and due to the very, very, very steep penalty she will likely loose her business and the property.

          >>denigrate our faith

          Clearly evident.

          >>denigrate our faith

          Clearly evident

          >>While you choke us you claim we are free to breath

          Excellent summary.

        • cestusdei

          Sure, ask Memories Pizza about their experience of tolerance at the hands of the homosexual mafia. You do have google? But of course you know all of this, you are just playing a little game. Soon you will move on to the “it isn’t that bad and you deserve it anyway” argument lol.

        • Phil Steinacker

          If you’re unaware of what we’re talking about then you have your head where the sun don’t shine, and worse, you like the view. Besides, you have it backwards. Our facts don’t have to be persuasive; just be honest that you refuse to be persuaded by the reality you wish to ignore.

A Generous Season
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