Britain to Codify Racist Sentencing Policy: White Men Will Do More Time for Same Crimes

In this 53-minute video, the British conservatives of New Culture Forum unpack several alarming headlines from their rapidly changing country. The far-left government — not content to imprison citizens for complaining about immigration, while winking at migrants’ crimes — is now proposing to codify DEI in the very core of law enforcement.

New sentencing guidelines proposed would prescribe longer sentences for native-born white men than for any other person for the exact same crimes. The theory is that everyone else is somehow “disadvantaged,” and hence less morally responsible for his actions. When South Africa sentenced people this way back in the 1980s, the world knew what to call it: apartheid. The commenters note that these sentencing guidelines seem intended to reduce the number of Muslim migrants in prison, without addressing why they are so much more likely to commit crimes than other Britons.

Other stories discussed include the Royal Family’s decision to mark Muslim Ramadan while ignoring Christian Lent, and how embattled British conservatives and Christians perceive the Trump administration.

Editor’s Note: A transcript follows the embedded video; it was automatically generated and lightly edited, so please be aware there could be typos or other small errors. The Stream is working toward a transcription service that does fast, accurate, and reliable work; thank you in advance for your patience!

00;00;00;16 – 00;00;05;13
See.

00;00;05;15 – 00;00;31;24
Hello and welcome to New Speaker, our weekly look at the news agenda. We’re all back together. I’m very pleased to say, after a bit of kind of instability over the past month. Welcome to Revital Manchu, senior fellow and world historian, Amy Gallagher of Stand Up to Work and of course, of the NCF and, Philip because Dot, his league senior fellow and cultural historian now.

00;00;31;24 – 00;01;00;26
Oh, and also another title now, which brings me on to this, before we talk about the various events of the week, Philip, here is our new national organizer for. Congratulations. Thank you very much indeed. Peter. Yes, this is for NCF locals. I’m the, I’m the new fella in charge. So, if you are interested in joining this, amazing grassroots movement, then go onto the website and have a look at the details and join us.

00;01;00;26 – 00;01;22;22
And, and let’s, let’s meet up soon. Yeah. Buy me a drink and then, get it all this. But, Philip, you know, you’re now obviously coordinating the whole thing. Just, you know, hiding your light under bushel. We’ve actually got our first locals conference coming up at the end of this month. We we’ve got a conference coming up.

00;01;22;25 – 00;01;44;20
At in Salisbury. Yeah, it’s the end of this month. So, that’s going to be absolutely fascinating. We’ve got lots of other stuff happening as well. I’m in conversation with lots of the, the branch organizers, and it’s a bit of, well, let’s move on to the next stage, let’s say, because the previous organizer, Stephen Barlow, could just do such a fantastic job.

00;01;44;20 – 00;01;58;08
Oh, Stephen. Great. Yeah, yeah, that we’re ready to kind of develop in terms of what we’re doing, but also grow as well because we want some new branches. So it’s really, really exciting. And well, if you’re going to be speaking it, this is about the Magna Carta, isn’t it?

00;01;58;09 – 00;02;13;23
Yes, sir. Salisbury, 29th of March a magna Carta and the making of the English great, a great line up. David Starkey, who, of course, has written about this extensively. Professor, what’s it all right? I want to go through the whole list, but there’s a very, very distinguish speakers will be there a little bit.

00;02;13;23 – 00;02;14;28
Adam the architect.

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Robert Adam, the architect as well, when one of the historians from history reclaimed, which, of course, is pushing back against all of the, the left wing rewriting of history and historical revisionism and so forth, so should we rather spend a day and it’s taking place in a wonderful ancient. And we chose Salisbury, of course, because it’s home to one of the four original copies of the of the Magna culture.

00;02;34;01 – 00;03;00;17
But unfortunately it’s sold out. So having said all that, 86 soda. But anyway, in the week before we talk, we’ve got some locals events. Events? Yeah, there are some locals events in March as well which are sold out. So, if you’re around Birmingham, there’s an informal social that’s on the 9th of March. On the 12th of March, there’s London South East, there’s a meet up there at 7:00.

00;03;00;23 – 00;03;20;22
So we had one group for London, and now it’s because it’s so big. We split it up into four. There’s Lincoln, it’s on the 13th of March, which is a monthly meet up there, South Southend on the 13th as well. That’s another Mece meetup. And this is with this band, this local band, which I’m really fascinated about because they’ve been canceled.

00;03;20;22 – 00;03;43;18
So that might be interesting that they’re they’re going to talk about their experience, back in Sheffield on the 20th. And that’s with Ben Habib, Manchester on the 22nd, and finally, Southampton on the 25th of March. So all of those, meetings are happening this month. If you want to know any more, as I say, go to the website and sign up to locals.

00;03;43;18 – 00;03;45;01
We’d be really pleased to have you.

00;03;45;01 – 00;03;51;15
Well, you can email locals at New Culture Forum for all UK to get in touch, and they’re all obviously free of charge as well.

00;03;51;17 – 00;04;17;18
Yes, yes yes indeed. Thanks very much for that. Thank you. Want to start with, well, the important events have been really crowding the week, actually, one way or another. We could start. Amy, this is there’s been an attack, as I said, or an undermining on one of our basic legal principles in this country this week, hasn’t there?

00;04;17;21 – 00;04;18;02
Yeah.

00;04;18;02 – 00;04;42;15
Equality before the law. This is the news that the, Sentencing Council, which is a legal body from the government, have come up with these guidelines for these pre-sentencing reports that can be written up and given to a judge before a sentence is given to a criminal. And they outline that only certain groups or, you know, can have access to this pre-sentencing report.

00;04;42;17 – 00;05;04;23
And it’s quite unbelievable to see it in writing because they specify, that this can only apply to women. It applies only to ethnic minorities, cultural minorities, whatever that is. Religious minorities, young people between the ages of 18 and 24. And then it has other, other, identities like trans and neurodiverse for some reason.

00;05;04;29 – 00;05;06;11
This is. Yeah.

00;05;06;14 – 00;05;36;17
Well, it is we I mean, it doesn’t take all the protected characteristics of the Equality Act, which is already a kind of a mess anyway, but it actually names specific groups. So, like, even if you’re, you know, obviously a man wouldn’t be entitled to a pre-sentencing report going by the, the sentencing. It’s just quite it’s amazing that they’ve just been so brazen in showing this because, I mean, many people point out the Equality Act, under like the category of race, for example, is often discrimination and you get certain races.

00;05;36;17 – 00;06;02;13
That’s taken seriously by the judiciary. But they won’t say that in this, in this, in these guidelines. Are they actually all saying that you have to be a minority? You have to be a woman? And the claim, the bit that they’re making is that if you fall into these groups, you’re more likely to experience disadvantage, you’re more likely to, you know, have had some kind of something done to you by the system, which means you in other words, you have an excuse for committing your crime.

00;06;02;13 – 00;06;21;00
So this totally undoes the idea of agency. You know, that we we we were free will. You know, you have to go with that. Because you could allow anybody to claim that something happened to them that made them commit a crime. And as I said at the start, it undermines equality before the law. So it’s it’s huge.

00;06;21;00 – 00;06;25;23
I mean, it was Robert Jenrick that, pointed this out and he’s been doing a lot to push back.

00;06;25;26 – 00;06;30;22
And they pointed out and yeah, which is something going ahead that they just kept quiet or something.

00;06;30;22 – 00;06;48;10
Yeah. Well I don’t I hadn’t seen it in the press. I mean I’m everyone now is coming out in labor. Should be my, my muse MP came out and said that she she’s she rejects that she’s not going to do it. But she would have seen she would have known about this or people around her would have known that this was going to be released.

00;06;48;13 – 00;07;03;01
So I wonder if that they have realized that this such a backlash that they just can’t get away with this. And she’s saying she’s going to write to the sentencing council and, and put pressure on them to, to drop it. But it’s amazing that they thought that they could go ahead with it anyway.

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00;07;39;11 – 00;07;58;02
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00;07;58;02 – 00;08;09;03
That’s the key thing here is that, we have outsourced our, our legal system to quangos because it’s actually the Sentencing Council who has come up with these guidelines.

00;08;09;09 – 00;08;11;01
Who’s on the licensing council?

00;08;11;08 – 00;08;30;06
They have, you know, distinguished judges, barristers, lawyers of some of some repute and some renown. Although, as we know, of course, these days there’s been a huge capture of our legal system. And so many of the people in the judiciary now, of course, have ideological biases, which we can see and evidence and order and rulings and so forth.

00;08;30;08 – 00;08;58;19
And so now, even though, I mean, labor understands how dynamite the whole notion of two tiered justice is, we saw the riots in Southport and all of this. And so, yeah, with Jenrick having lit the touch paper on all this, you know, Keir Starmer, labor really unhappy with this either. But but the attorney general is hamstrung because the Sentencing Council has said that they are digging their heels in and they have justified what they’ve done and said they have no intention of changing it.

00;08;58;26 – 00;09;25;19
So now comes Parliament is ultimately sovereign as part of it needs to take action here. But it just goes to show you the damage caused post Blair with with essentially taking power away from the people, putting it into the unelected, unaccountable hands or bodies like this. And look, Pre-Sentencing reports have a long history. This is not a new thing whose opposition reports exist to try to put into context the background of the person, and usually it was always justified.

00;09;25;24 – 00;09;37;04
If a person had been abused all their lives, their young person, or if they, you know, they have some mental health issues or, you know, if a woman is in extreme poverty and she steals baby formula for her child.

00;09;37;04 – 00;09;38;10
Also mitigates.

00;09;38;10 – 00;10;02;16
Comes into play use. But that should apply across the board to everybody irrespective of your identity, right? These factors are not dependent upon race and ethnicity. And I heard this morning on radio four, the Baroness Kennedy, a woman who I’ve never seen in my life, and she once again said, well, this is because higher numbers of ethnic minorities, convicted of crimes and arrested for crimes.

00;10;02;16 – 00;10;19;03
And she said any attempt to suggest that this increased criminality in those groups is obviously wrong is actually new, because we have the data on all of this now. The charts have been published. They’re not essential to this country. We can see in Denmark and Sweden and so forth. We know by a vast number, by vast expanse crimes are committed.

00;10;19;03 – 00;10;35;09
We have far more black people from North Africa and from the Middle East and Pakistan and Bangladesh than they are from other areas of the world, including from India as well as other places in the West. We know what’s causing all of this, and yet this is yet again a deliberate attempt to pretend, that, you know, the reality is not reality.

00;10;35;12 – 00;11;02;21
Is a bit like actually, imposing DIY judiciary. And I was just going to say this is the logical conclusion, isn’t it? This is the de logical conclusion. It’s enshrining victimhood in the law, isn’t it? And it can only ever go, you know, you look at this and you think, what could possibly go wrong? Absolutely everything. But it is that whole thing is the I but it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s now in the, in the criminal justice system.

00;11;02;21 – 00;11;33;17
I’ve spent so much time I’ve the amount of times I’ve been on, interview panels in the past for the public sector where, you know, the, the, the spec for the job is we’re particularly keen on applicants from diverse backgrounds that, in other words, white men do not apply. So the next stage, the white men do not apply is white men go to prison, do not pass go, do not collect 200 pounds.

00;11;33;19 – 00;11;56;27
And this is potentially terrifying. You know we’re talking it bubbling in the background is this notion of, you know, how far away or how close are we to a civil war. Right. And this is this is not something that’s way out to, you know, the crazy people are talking about. This is just generally accepted now, I think, because we are going in that direction, we’re on that road.

00;11;56;27 – 00;12;24;20
It’s going to be very, very difficult to move us away from that road. I can’t I can’t think of anything that, that will accelerate towards more than removing equality before the law and choosing a particular type of person, i.e. white men, to be a scapegoat. Such is. I mean, when you see this even, what are the chances of this not going not happening actually, realistically?

00;12;24;21 – 00;12;50;10
Well, it depends on how determined labor is to more secure as it stand is going to stand. I was more remarkable is that this this went out to consultation. So it wasn’t just the sentencing Council was a 15 people. They went out and consulted. And it shows you when they live in these, their own echo chambers. He flagged this up as somehow being controversial because of course, it’s not just about the injustice, it’s about the fact that justice is seen to be biased.

00;12;50;17 – 00;13;06;23
And, you know, the reputation of the legal system is already being jeopardized. And his public trust is already weakened and restitutions. And nobody in the wider circle of consultations flagged that either. That shows you, the rockers across such a vast expanse of our need circles.

00;13;06;25 – 00;13;37;07
Sorry, but of course it’s the perfect way to tamper with the data, because they are actually going to have to release data at some point. Oh, they have who’s doing what, where and when. And we talk, particularly about the sexual abuse data. And, you know, we made a brilliant film on that when they do have to release data, full data, full, you know, disclosure then if the if they’re only putting white men in prison, then that’s going to suit their aims completely, isn’t it?

00;13;37;07 – 00;13;46;17
You know, it’s just so awful from start to finish. And the more you think about it, the more I’m trying to think of a word for it, the more dastardly the whole thing is. It’s ridiculous.

00;13;46;19 – 00;14;07;02
Yeah. You do think things are on edge. I mean, when you talk about Civil war, you do think there’s nothing that could be worse for race relations than to make a group feel that they are being treated unfairly and the race is against each other, that you get one certain treatment and the other person doesn’t. I mean, it’s just we’re already on edge as it is, and this is just kind of one step to kind of breaking point.

00;14;07;02 – 00;14;07;23
It feels to me.

00;14;07;26 – 00;14;38;16
Interesting you say that. I mean, I interviewed for This Week is going out tomorrow. Professor David Betts, who is, you know, especially on modern warfare and particularly on insurgency and civil war. That’s exactly what she said. She did a three stages and at the first stage is defensive. What arises is when the majority or a particular group feels that they are being systematically downgraded.

00;14;38;23 – 00;14;55;09
Well, I think we’re more than that. Yeah. When you we but alongside that though actually that this these are all basically attacks from the very heart of our legitimacy. I mean, to me, if we know that that is how the law is operated makes it illegitimate.

00;14;55;15 – 00;15;11;05
It’s the pride of our countries. It equality before the law. You know, you think of Lady Justice with the scales of justice, you know, blinded. She can’t see who the perpetrator is. And that’s something we’re proud of. And you just think, gosh, do we really know what we’re messing with here? And it’s so fundamental.

00;15;11;05 – 00;15;36;01
And it’s one of the things that has kept us stable as a society. We haven’t been a revolutionary society because, yes, justice is imperfect and the system is imperfect, but at least it tries to go some way towards being fair. I think that’s the difference between us and other countries. We in other countries is, is that very thing.

00;15;36;01 – 00;16;00;17
You know, we are not a revolutionary society, but something has changed and we are becoming a revolutionary society. That’s terrifying. The thing is, is that this is all happening. Carrying on. Okay. Right. They’re trying not to take on board no state. But, at the very time that most people are saying, oh, we’ve turned a corner, you know, we’ve turned the corner on work, we’ve turned a corner, and this is all going out to go.

00;16;00;20 – 00;16;08;28
Oh, I don’t think so. All I would say is this is all very official, isn’t it? This is official stuff. This is legal system we’re talking about.

00;16;09;03 – 00;16;34;28
Well, the quangos already there are law unto themselves and and that’s, that’s the real issue. And they are so embedded with it with their own thinkers and they’re, they’ve essentially indoctrinated themselves that it’s going to take much more than just simply, you know, electing a Trump character here to do all of this, you simply need to have a completes words and branch reform of the fundamental structures of our society, where as you and as it goes, it is just Tony Blair who outsells this.

00;16;35;05 – 00;16;53;07
And the Tories did nothing. Well, you know, I mean kind of appointments are announced in the Guardian newspaper, you know, that’s something. And David Cameron had to stop doing this, that he put the pedal to the metal. Look, work is in reverse in America. There’s every hope that that’s going to have, some ripple effects in, in Europe.

00;16;53;07 – 00;17;03;14
And we’re already seeing some evidence of that. But what we’re talking about here is so deeply structural. And there’s not going to be just because the vibe changes. This needs to have proper, proper before.

00;17;03;16 – 00;17;28;21
Yeah, I think this is what people don’t understand. And conservatives in particular are guilty of this. They’re guilty of not looking at the detail. Okay. And when you look at the detail, you realize how complex, deep and nuanced all of this stuff is and trying to untangle it and trying to reverse and change in terms of philosophy is a huge thing.

00;17;28;21 – 00;17;50;25
Don’t forget, we’ve educated a couple of generations of people now, in this ethos. So there’s a huge amount to untangle, there’s a huge amount to change, and we need to deal with the details. It needs to be a fundamental approach. Yes, it’s not about vibe and it’s about working hard. Yeah. I think the main problem we do need to do that.

00;17;50;28 – 00;18;13;18
I think the main problem for people like us, in fact, I would say for most people is we have a media which presents all this stuff in a kind of very, very half baked way, probably in a favorable way. That’s the biggest. And we’ve got a big slice of the message carries. Yeah. I don’t know what people are going to think this is.

00;18;13;18 – 00;18;34;24
You know, if you read a paper, you’re still going to possibly get a different view. Yeah, but people don’t read papers now so much and they get it all from the TV news. Anyway, something else is being TV news. It also goes watch the very hard to someone is that, this week, just in case you didn’t realize, it’s been Ramadan.

00;18;34;27 – 00;19;06;16
It’s also been, the beginning of lent. We had Shrove Tuesday, ash Wednesday, doing some comments about the fact that Ramadan seems to be dominating for and and frankly, it’s right at the very heart of our institutions yet again. Yeah. This is, I think this has been quite an alarming week, really, in the sense that, for want of a better way of putting it, we’ve seen Islam become the official religion of this country.

00;19;06;16 – 00;19;31;26
I can’t think of another way to put it, because we have this, iftar at, Windsor Castle, which I think we touched on last week, actually, where we had the, the royal couple looking quite hapless in front of mountains of dates. But this isn’t the only one of these, of these ritualistic meals that’s happening.

00;19;31;26 – 00;19;54;14
There is, of the next month, there’s going to be one happening at the Globe Theater. This is going to be one at Lord’s Cricket ground. There’s going to be one at Trafalgar Square. So all of a sudden, the public space and the public idea of faith is Islam. Now, they’re defending this by saying, well, this is interfaith.

00;19;54;14 – 00;20;26;11
And everybody, everybody’s welcome. And, you know, Christians are welcome as well. But the point is, the dominant faith is Islam here. And minor faiths, as they would call it, like like Christianity. Yes, they will condescend to allow them to come into the, into the tent. But this is really frightening. And it’s difficult to know. What to do about it really, because it’s such it’s it’s at the heart.

00;20;26;11 – 00;20;49;19
It’s at the heart of all of the institutions, you know, it’s the royal family. It’s the government. The only person actually, who has come out to say, you know, Happy Lent and and is, is, the mayor of London. And he’s done that again in a condescending way because he feels he can do because he’s a muslim.

00;20;49;19 – 00;21;02;25
So this again, it goes very deep. It’s very complex and it’s very worrying. It’s a bit like being like down. It was about Saint George’s Day. It’s like, you know, once you’ve won the battle battle, you feel you can at least, you know, be cognizant.

00;21;02;25 – 00;21;03;29
And in other news.

00;21;04;01 – 00;21;33;09
Yes, exactly. Thing is, so, I mean, you you mentioned it was a lot more than that, as in a way for because there was this ceremony as well in Westminster Hall. Yeah. The heart of government at which Keir Starmer did a speech saying how Muslims have been under such pressure in recent years. I mean, it’s an alternate universe stuff always, in the middle of Parliament, in St George’s Hall in Windsor Castle, hearing a call to prayer.

00;21;33;11 – 00;21;39;00
You don’t have to be some raving Islam phobe to feel slightly uneasy about that.

00;21;39;01 – 00;22;01;08
Yeah. No, no, no, I mean, even the royal family Twitter, they put out a kind of, Happy Ramadan and they didn’t even mention then. And that’s the royal family, you see. My goodness. I mean, when I was growing up, I came to the church when I was about 14 or 15, and I and most Christians, I would talk to that kind of maybe concern was that we were largely a secular society, you know, and they wanted more people to be religious.

00;22;01;08 – 00;22;17;25
And now when I look back, I sort of think I’d much rather have a secular society than an Islamic society. And it does feel like that’s the direction we’re going in. And you do for the bit. I know I don’t want to use this term, but I do feel a bit kind of like gaslighted by the media and by the politicians as though this is all just perfectly normal.

00;22;17;28 – 00;22;38;01
Oh, Ramadan, we all celebrate Ramadan now. Do you think it. No, I didn’t growing up. Actually, this wasn’t this is. This wasn’t something that was normal. You didn’t see politicians all coming out saying Happy Ramadan and going in an over-the-top way. And you just think you wonder what’s going on in that. And their minds like, do they do they genuinely think it’s a really wonderful thing that we’re becoming Islamic?

00;22;38;01 – 00;22;38;13
I mean.

00;22;38;18 – 00;22;55;26
It’s virtue signal, the end stream of virtue signaling. They are becoming the useful idiots, or the muscular display over of a religion that seeks to supplant, you know, the, you know, person is a Christian country. The Church of England is the established church of this country. But you wouldn’t know that if you were going to look at any of that.

00;22;55;26 – 00;23;17;29
And what gets me, of course, is that the same people of Starmer and all these other characters who are out to say, Happy Ramadan, everybody, these are these are secularists, these are atheists who shun Christianity, who run away from religion in every other context. Remember what happened when Tim Farron was the leader of the Liberal Democrat Party, received huge amounts of pressure to resign because he was a Christian.

00;23;18;04 – 00;23;40;00
You has for the SNP leadership. You had this woman who was a Christian, and it was her Christian beliefs that made her unelectable as the SNP leader. And then suddenly, when it comes to the dismay of not any and not not only a religion, but a religion that is going to be in very respects, you know, backwards in his views towards liberal progressive values that they espouse, and suddenly they’re all embracing.

00;23;40;06 – 00;23;57;13
And, you know, we’re not even yet at a critical mass of the population in this country. Once you get to a critical mass, it’s going to get far worse. But of course, how do you display dominance? By taking over the public squares. And we see it not only in Ramadan celebrations in these venues, as you said. We also see it with these people.

00;23;57;13 – 00;24;14;11
I’ve seen the videos of, you know, thousands of Muslims with men with their shirts off on Westminster Bridge engaged in some sort of ritual practice. You see that when they close down Whitehall. I’m praying on the streets of Whitehall. There are many places you could do this. This is it’s a completely obvious display of dominance.

00;24;14;13 – 00;24;35;17
And the display of choice. Or if it’s display of Thomas. When you say virtue signaling, I think that you’re letting off setting more light. Nate, I think that what it is, is with Parliament, they’re thinking of their votes. They’re thinking of losing by. Oh, yeah, super simple with the royal family and I never I can’t remember a time seeing such hostility as to what they do.

00;24;35;19 – 00;25;08;25
It is about survival, in my view. They’re thinking what ways the wind blowing. And you’re going to be a, if not a majority, a huge part. They’re under a big misapprehension about the whole. But that is a part. In fact, the Charles has always had this interest in his home who was during the heated talks that but you have this stage thing where they’re during the day then to have the singing in Saint George’s Hall and then to have this big, we say Happy Ramadan to the whole, well, that’s just something politicians always did, not war families.

00;25;08;29 – 00;25;27;17
Well, that’s there’s something else underlying this as well, isn’t that it’s the fact that people don’t take the Church of England seriously anymore. Okay. So it’s kind of a bit of a laughing stock and they don’t take their own faith seriously. I was talking about this to my stepfather, actually. Here’s a question. And he’s will they take their faith seriously and we don’t.

00;25;27;17 – 00;25;52;04
What do you expect? And in a way, he’s right. But we don’t even have, for example, the Archbishop of Canterbury at the moment because the Archbishop of Canterbury had to resign in disgrace. What’s going on there? Are they dealing with that? How would I would they handling themselves in the public space compared to the insurgent Islam? You know, all of these questions keep popping up into my mind and I keep saying I’m worried.

00;25;52;04 – 00;26;11;21
I’m concerned because I am. There is nothing there. There is nothing that we cannot, you know, we cannot present who we are. We cannot be proud of our culture. If our institutions and the Church of England Islamism is a British English institution, is is a laughing stock. This was the first time actually, you know, you said it felt like the official religion.

00;26;11;23 – 00;26;34;03
Yeah. This is only going to get bigger. It’s not going to go away. Now, this wasn’t some special year. He’s only going to get bigger. And it did feel actually like that. You understand. Well come why companies do it sometimes with laughable results as we’ve seen with Tesco’s you know advertising beer. It’s come celebrate Ramadan. We’ve asked all of us to.

00;26;34;03 – 00;26;57;23
No, no, no. Yes. But when it comes to the official institutions, I’m sorry, but the anger that one can feel is the sort of anger you get when you feel you’re being utterly betrayed. Yeah, and that’s how I thought. I thought this is betrayal. You know, you’re you are rubbing people’s noses in this and you say, okay.

00;26;57;25 – 00;27;20;14
Great points. Absolutely. I said, you know, same things we might. So they are not even religious people they don’t care about, you know, they don’t get it is entirely a cultural thing. And we are robbed to we know that we’re only disarmed, actually, from critics. So see, what do you do? It’s an odd thing. You should look at it and you see what the.

00;27;20;17 – 00;27;22;27
And I get round that because you capture the language. Yeah.

00;27;22;27 – 00;27;44;21
And this is precisely what’s wrong with all of these Islamophobia blasphemy laws. Yeah. Of course you you cannot criticize a religion or an ideology, which is very different from anti-Muslim hatred here. We are objecting to this, that display of religious ideology with which we disagree. That is the sort of thing that will be criminalized. And that’s why this is so this is an insidious, sinister.

00;27;44;24 – 00;28;02;02
But yes, you’re quite right. This is just purely an aspect of survival for the Labor Party, particularly because of course, they’re running scared from this Muslim vote. They want to win back all those people who left, and particularly over Gaza and other things like that. And so they are now bending over backwards to accommodate and win back those Muslims.

00;28;02;04 – 00;28;28;14
And it’s just cowardice as well, I think. I mean, it was history too. Yeah. It was mistreating. You put a picture of himself in Parliament with lots of Muslims saying was celebrating Ramadan. And then he added, all but he’s himself a Christian, you know, and then you think, but what? Why are you doing this? That if you if you yourself a Christian and then you realize it was street things, see, it’s very narrow in terms of he’s facing, you know, an independent kind of sectarian, MP who’s challenging him.

00;28;28;14 – 00;28;45;22
And he may well see. So he’s got to come out and and push, Islam and Ramadan. But I just think if I was a Christian, I just couldn’t do that, and I do. I wanted, you know, I, I, I just how how is he able to do that? Is it just about power or are they just because you do it, what have you?

00;28;45;24 – 00;29;03;28
You know, you keep your seat, but then in the longer term, what what have you won overall? Just seems to me to be, you know, you’ve lost your kind of, you know, your morals and you’ve lost, you know, the country’s going in that direction. So you stay you may stay in power for a little bit longer, but, I mean, how do you look at yourself in the mirror?

00;29;04;00 – 00;29;22;19
Well, they do quite easy because they don’t have those. They don’t have schools and they don’t have morals. You know, it is entirely about how do how do they know they’re interested in, you know, tomorrow and the day after tomorrow, and the rest can take care of itself, you know, that. That’s that’s how they think someone actually posted, his election result on Twitter.

00;29;22;19 – 00;29;45;07
Actually, West Streeting. And sure enough, it was right down to 600. It was an independent. This is where there was no hiding to nothing. I bought it because there obviously discovered this is maybe one of the reasons why they particularly seeking out is that, Muslims will probably have their own party, but this home comes to 2029.

00;29;45;10 – 00;30;07;06
They will open. There’s just there’s a broader sense of fear of Islam, is palpable in institutions, is palpable in government, is palpable in the media. I went home this week. I was on TV news talking to Nigel Farage about this and the response to. I said exactly that. And the response has been huge. So I think I think people know that.

00;30;07;06 – 00;30;29;13
We all know that, don’t we? But, how do we deal with that? What do we do? How do we deal? Not so much with the the pressures from, Islamic lobbies. But how do we deal with the cowards in positions of power? Well, I say that quite simply sounds hopes stop voting for not voting for them.

00;30;29;15 – 00;30;52;29
Stop voting for them. I mean, you know, for goodness sake, that’s the only thing. By the way, we didn’t mention, I don’t think we mentioned, city calm, put up Ramadan lights and, meanwhile, a Christmas fair over in Spitalfields. I think it was a Christmas. You know, one of the traders who let the cat out of the bag.

00;30;52;29 – 00;30;56;27
So we’re not actually. Now, we’re not really meant to say the Christmas market.

00;30;56;27 – 00;30;57;26
The festive market.

00;30;57;28 – 00;31;17;12
Especially in the winter market. But anyway, despite all of this, well, I nearly said something profane that, nevertheless, I’ll was thinking of, showing a, coalition of the willing. Is that right? Move.

00;31;17;14 – 00;31;46;23
Yes. This has been a very interesting, two weeks where we have now the greatest fissure in the West since the Second World War, was to, well, we’ve, you know, put it all. Donald Trump is essentially doing what he promised he would do. And essentially, he has given Europe the biggest wake up call in the postwar era, essentially sayings on his own that the international world order is dead.

00;31;46;25 – 00;32;07;04
The established order, created in 1945, has come to an end, and that may be the case. Now, in the past, when you had the New World Order created in 45, there was consensus around the world of the New World Order had died, and everybody from the Democrats and Republicans, all the political parties agreed. Now we’ve got one man saying that, and the Republican Party is saying that.

00;32;07;04 – 00;32;25;09
I don’t think the Democrats necessarily agree with that in Europe and agree with that. And the question is, can Donald Trump and the Republican Party on his own refashion the new world order? And will it last beyond four years? And that’s why I think we’re in a very fascinating time, because there isn’t consensus about this. Many of our viewers will be on his side about this.

00;32;25;14 – 00;32;48;21
But, you know, after four years, what’s going to happen with the next person in that role? And, a lot of the tension with too soon into this presidency to understand fully whether Donald Trump is serious about everything he’s saying about removing and challenges from Ukraine or removing military support, or whether these are all tactical things designed to bring people to the table and so forth.

00;32;48;21 – 00;33;07;25
And a lot of people talking as experts saying, well, this is the end of this is the end of everything. America can’t be trusted. Others say this is pure tactics. You know, nobody outside his circle knows. And I think he’d be a fool to say definitive. What’s happening? We need to look at this after a Ukraine Russian peace deal and say, okay, what are the terrible?

00;33;07;25 – 00;33;26;22
This is is a satisfactory thing right now. Things are very nervous and it is very worrying. There’s every reason to think, actually, that Trump knows what he’s doing is still very uncomfortable for Europeans. I don’t think, you know, in the old days, you would put pressure on someone like Zelensky behind closed doors. He wouldn’t humiliate in public. He wouldn’t say he’s a dictator.

00;33;26;27 – 00;33;46;02
You wouldn’t be faced with the truth. You wouldn’t lie about the fact that that’s a that Ukraine started the war and so forth that’s being played out in public, which we’re not used to, and it’s causing huge damage, actually, I would say to conservatives outside of America, you know, in Canada you have a two thirds majority likely for the Conservative Party of Canada.

00;33;46;09 – 00;33;58;28
Now, if they even win the next election, that will be amazing because of what Trump has been saying there in this country. Amazingly, in the last two and a half weeks, Reform parties, the Reform Party voters have turned against Trump so that he had 60.

00;33;58;28 – 00;34;00;17
Percent support was extraordinary just a.

00;34;00;17 – 00;34;07;25
Month ago from her 60% support amongst reform voters. Now, I think it’s only 20% really that this is an issue with the messaging.

00;34;07;25 – 00;34;08;28
Here.

00;34;09;00 – 00;34;31;12
That’s emanating from Trump. But look, the man is Do is very popular still at home. So that’s that’s the great disparity here in Europe and in Canada. And the conservatives elsewhere of feeling very nervous. But he is appealing to his home base and actually he’s still having his support there. It’s still around 50%. I think there’s 44 to 48% of Americans still support him on all of this.

00;34;31;16 – 00;34;52;12
And what he’s doing is actually working. Look, the Europeans are out to lunch. We need to bring an end to the war in Ukraine. We need to bring them to the negotiating table. Biden and Obama, both of which have agreed that you need to have territorial concessions. That’s just realpolitik. Trump is just saying the things out loud that other politicians would say.

00;34;52;12 – 00;35;08;10
It was saying in private, but perhaps you don’t say those things before you start negotiating, but actually on the principles of it all, I think Donald Trump is correct. It’s the messaging and the way that is being, you know, because, you know, the people of the Kremlin are having a field day over all this and rubbing their hands in glee.

00;35;08;13 – 00;35;13;18
We even hear talk now that Canada may be removed from the Five Eyes, the great, you know.

00;35;13;18 – 00;35;15;05
And offshoring as well.

00;35;15;07 – 00;35;35;19
Not us. Canada may be removed from the eyes, which is absolutely remarkable to think about. These are very worrying times. Trump is doing very well on the domestic front. He did extremely well in foreign policy in his first term. The jury is out now. In the second term, we just have to take a step back and basically look at the geopolitics in about six months or a year to see where we are.

00;35;35;23 – 00;36;00;05
There are so many parts to this, actually. We we can break them down a bit and try and keep on onto the particular thing. You mentioned a wake up call to me. It’s with Europe. It’s been slightly satisfying, you know, to see the complacent, these people that laughed at Trump when he talked, for example, about Russian oil coming into Germany, they just sat and laughed.

00;36;00;05 – 00;36;30;12
You saw videos of them, they have been able to build these massive, squandering welfare states simply because their defense was taken care of. And that’s what’s being taken away, isn’t it? This is terrible news for Europe. But this level of delusion. Oh, it’s it’s it’s you saw not, summit and still going on and also the kind of way in which commentators and interestingly also on what you might Michael elsewhere.

00;36;30;12 – 00;36;54;17
Yeah. I’ll sort of trumpeting, you know, behind the kind of effort and this is almost like they’ve been outraged being told the truth. Yeah. It just feels as though we’re reliving it feels like Groundhog Day to me, because it’s the race is just brilliantly outlined, the geopolitics of it. The response here from The Usual Suspects, you know, the, the moral frenzy.

00;36;54;17 – 00;37;13;08
This is a new thing they can get their teeth in. So it feels as though we’re living, reliving BLM. We’re, you know, we’re trans locked down all of these things that people just go one dimensional, whole hearted into. And this is the new thing. And if you for one minute say, well, hang on, let’s let’s just, hold on there.

00;37;13;08 – 00;37;38;21
Because if it comes to a situation where we’re putting boots in the ground, on the ground in Ukraine, then that’s incredibly serious. This is Eastern Europe. This is the Russian bear. You know, have you ever been there? No, these people haven’t been there. I have actually been to Ukraine. Okay. And it’s a it’s a terrifying place. I remember coming back over the border into the relative, safety and sophistication of Romania.

00;37;38;21 – 00;37;58;03
You know, that’s how, that’s how happened. It was. But there is this sense, this simplistic, you know, I want to draw them from from the, you know, we’ll go to people. We want personal drama in our lives. And this is the new one. It happens about once every 18 months. I say to those people, you know, you want personal drama in your life, come out as non-binary, okay?

00;37;58;03 – 00;38;15;08
It’s easier. It’s safer for everybody. Just do that, you know? But this is just it just feels like Groundhog Day to me, isn’t it? Isn’t it sort of sort of. Also, the supporting support of Ukraine amongst many people is actually another way of just simply saying, I hate Trump.

00;38;15;11 – 00;38;43;16
Yeah, yeah, we’re saying I’m woke or it’s just being reactionary. Yeah, yeah. I didn’t know I was going to say. I mean, it was what’s all the drama? This is why I do I agree with Rafe that that the way Trump is doing this so publicly is causing problems because that interview with him is Lansky. I mean, people have had such a strong emotional reaction to it, and it does mean that we end up getting very quickly into one of these kind of, you know, kind of cultural moments where, you know, even one side or the other, like the pandemic or like BLM.

00;38;43;18 – 00;38;58;26
And I think it is because he has done it so publicly. I do think that these discussions should be going on behind closed doors, you know, and then people have because when people can see it, they start saying, you know, over-the-top things, but also then he’s being bullied or he’s you are, isn’t he? Isn’t he strong? He’s weak.

00;38;59;03 – 00;39;14;07
And you, you know, people I think many people still forget that this is a performance that, you know, people are doing it in front of the cameras and it just all gets very silly. And you do see it when we’re talking about war here, and there are people that are losing their lives. And when it becomes this kind of circus.

00;39;14;09 – 00;39;36;28
Sorry, but yeah, I agree, but on the one hand, I have to say I found it exhilarating. You so, so yeah. The mere fact, actually what people usually talk about behind closed doors. Yeah. I suddenly felt because I was also able to say this, that they might have stage managed an ambush. But it looked at these songs when I see it as something that just did erupt, right?

00;39;36;28 – 00;39;37;17
It wasn’t just.

00;39;37;17 – 00;39;57;17
Like, I mean, that’s something people will, you know, the clip that everyone sees. Yeah, this is zoom in and it looks as if, you know, Trump and, and and then sort of bullying Zelensky. Well, actually they were building this landscape. But if you watch the entire 15 minutes, you can see that Zelensky is playing his hand very badly, and he’s doing all the things that will rile up Trump and Vance.

00;39;57;19 – 00;40;14;04
I, I don’t know for sure. And so so yes, both sides are rising, he said. But it’s quite a situation where you actually have to watch what you’re saying in order to avoid annoying somebody who’s very prickly. You know, it’s almost as if you’re paying, you know, paying, you know, fealty towards the emperor. That’s what we saw.

00;40;14;04 – 00;40;31;19
Macron. You saw Starmer. They had to mind their P’s and Q’s and be very careful, as they say. They put their foot the wrong way. That’s not something I’m very comfortable with on the international stage. We don’t have a universal world emperor. We shouldn’t be dealing with things along those lines. Look, Trump is absolutely right to get the Europeans to pay more money.

00;40;31;19 – 00;40;49;28
They have been writing for free on the Americans. It’s completely unjustified. The Europeans are out to lunch to think that they can carry on this one any capacity whatsoever. Trump is correct to bring them down to to have peace negotiations. The Europeans will, you know. But yeah, you don’t need to worry about boots on the ground because you can only get boots on the ground as a peacekeeping mission.

00;40;49;28 – 00;41;08;23
They’re not going to go into a hot war. Putin is never going to allow British or French troops into Ukraine. This is a complete nonstarter from the very beginning. This is just grandstanding and the worst. This is very bad for Europe starting Ukrainian injustice, because Ukraine is basically being told, we’ll be with you, won’t be behind you, but there’s nothing behind the US.

00;41;08;25 – 00;41;24;17
Yeah, there’s nothing they will they will just give you Ukraine a reality check and say you do need to come and negotiate is a huge shame that, you know, you’re being undermined by America publicly like this. And the concessions are being made. But the reality is this is the time for concessions. This is the time to come to the table.

00;41;24;17 – 00;41;29;19
And let’s hope we have America. Well, actually, why don’t you get to the table, fight your corner properly.

00;41;29;19 – 00;41;42;22
Yeah. One thing about this is that what we should have a, you know, whatever you call me Donald is as it is mocked, and you simply cannot avoid the Putin has never been mentioned by. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00;41;42;22 – 00;41;59;28
And criticized. Yeah. Every single thing that people old people you know, people on the MAGA. Right. I mean, Douglas Murray, our friend, wrote a very good piece in The Spectator explaining why the magnet Trumpian right are wrong on Ukraine and why Putin is here. And like I said, every single thing Ukraine is corrupt. Of course it is.

00;42;00;03 – 00;42;20;11
Russia is even more crumbs. Zelensky may have put millions away. There’s every reason to believe that, Putin is the richest man in Europe with billions and billions, puts away his cryptocurrency. Every single thing you can lay against Ukraine are there many? There’s just criticisms. You can lay ten fold against Russia. And yet this huge silence about Russia’s, you know, the.

00;42;20;12 – 00;42;23;12
Record from the top, I mean, from for John, from you.

00;42;23;13 – 00;42;29;09
He’s been more critical to Lenski than he has been of Putin. And you do that is a bit of a worry, isn’t it?

00;42;29;09 – 00;42;56;22
But I mean, it was in so many ways and on so many levels, isn’t it? And I can’t help but listen to Keir Starmer and think about what’s being proposed. And everybody is so concerned about anybody, so about, about, Ukrainian borders. But look at our borders. They’ve been absolutely porous for the last 30 years. And the people who are, you know, rattling their sabers and banging that drum, but they well, they fight for us.

00;42;56;22 – 00;43;21;14
No, of course they wouldn’t. So all of this stuff for me, all of that stuff really leaves a terrible taste in the mouth. And and it’s those things that I’m kind of thinking about at the moment and those things that are the closest home to me because. Because it is about us as much as it’s about Ukraine. Yeah, I’m I agree with you.

00;43;21;14 – 00;43;44;04
I have I become very parochial little England whatever. But my I know not to most people. So a lot of people looking they will be thinking, look, you’re talking about war. We’ve got a war here. You know, we’ve got threats here every day. And in fact, you are the architect here. Stoma of many of this, you and your friends.

00;43;44;06 – 00;44;07;14
Precisely. And you have the gall to get up. This is not saying this is a defining moment. Yeah. When you actually the very people who will go off and be boots on the ground, probably a people you’d call far right thousands actually young working class white guys on the whole and the fury and the hatred for these grandstanding people.

00;44;07;19 – 00;44;31;14
Well, there’s something really immoral, isn’t there? You know, we were talking last week, weren’t we, about, portraits being removed from number ten, and Churchill’s been removed from number ten. And yet here Keir Starmer is all Churchillian. And this is about, you know, wanting, mobilizing our own people and all of a sudden calling on patriotism ever, as he called on patriotism before.

00;44;31;14 – 00;44;50;22
Can we just just just add one more aspect of it is the political response here by party at its core? Obviously you could say that this is what could be a nightmare scenario for Nigel Farage and why he’s so identified with some. But you mentioned, my feeling is, is that somehow or other he’s been hiding very well.

00;44;50;22 – 00;45;16;27
He’s somehow managed to, you know, walk this line. But he has called, as you alluded to, it has caused this fissure on the on the right. It’s not just a left wing right wing thing, isn’t it? I mean, you know, and I suppose when you look at, when you look at social media, a lot of people who’ve had very little time for, Zelinski I mean, the implication being is what?

00;45;16;27 – 00;45;34;27
They’re pro-Putin. I do know, you know, there is this element obviously on, on the left, but, you know, basically, I, I was for the reform had most of the news, but by Nigel’s taking to Michael’s, maybe they’ll come off a town square.

00;45;35;00 – 00;45;59;08
Yeah. That is the big danger. We’ve seen it in Canada where the, you know, the Conservative Party was being seen as a populist now a two thirds majority, maybe a minority. And of course, Trump and Farage are always seen basically as being for ferocious Trump lite. And that’s the big dilemma is are we going to see conservatism or right wing politics outside of America become a casualty of America first?

00;45;59;10 – 00;46;18;10
The jury’s out on that. You know, if the, as I say, a lot of everything we’re complaining about Trump could just be tactics rather than the yes, that’s the dream. And this is true in three, six months, whatever that actually in fact, what he was doing was just pulling people under the table. Everything was great. Then maybe you see a huge search for the rights again.

00;46;18;17 – 00;46;23;00
Right now, I think things are necessarily that great for the prospects for the right wing.

00;46;23;02 – 00;46;43;23
And because his tactics are different to any other president that ever been before, I mean, watching that footage on on Friday, I don’t know. I don’t know what you felt and I know what viewers felt, but I felt as I was watching a cross between Goodfellas and and The Godfather, the way he was expressing himself, you know, being nice, you, you know, I respect and funny.

00;46;43;23 – 00;47;11;15
You think I’m funny at this. And it was just nothing like I’ve ever seen before is one of those things. So the the usual mechanisms of analysis immediately go out of the window, don’t they. Because, because as he said at the end of it, you know, this will make great television and it just kind of throws you I notice it in that Julia Hartley-Brewer, I’m sure a great friend of ours, you know, but she took this very strong line in shame.

00;47;11;19 – 00;47;23;09
Pro, pro Ukraine, which and it sort of seemed to be rather sort of blind. She was almost like, you’re either that or you’re some appalling kind of fascist.

00;47;23;10 – 00;47;42;21
You know, increasingly there’s a lack of nuance on Ukraine, and it does feel like there’s a section of the right now that is just any anti any kind of mainstream narrative that this is a skepticism about everything. And they go down really kind of strange rabbit holes actually. And then and then it means that in every issue people are kind of increasingly all different.

00;47;42;23 – 00;47;53;15
You know Paul I’m sorry, I’m probably, you know, guilty about it. But you look at, say, people who like Murray as a fistral tweeting, I sandwich, you know.

00;47;53;18 – 00;48;15;14
Yeah. But I would say that’s very short sighted because there’s another option rather than, you know, people put, they say, oh, there you go. With Zen school, you’re on Putin’s side. There’s another example here it is Poland. No one’s going to say Poland is woke. Poland is free from all of this and all of the nonsense. Certainly the last governments that we had that to under the national, the law, the law and justice party, they see Putin for what he is.

00;48;15;19 – 00;48;43;23
They’re supporting Zelensky. You know, you know, the Polish leaders are opposed to all the things that we’re opposed to that opposed to Mariella Frostrup and all these characters. It’s a very Western centric view to say, oh, because you’re going west. He the support, he says that means everything’s bad. Actually, the Eastern European countries, places like Poland, which is spending more than America as a percentage of GDP on defense, they know what Russia is like, and they’re far more Christian than in Russian.

00;48;43;27 – 00;48;57;17
So a lot of this stuff, which is Putin’s anti-woke effort with him, actually, you know, when it comes to Christianity and all these sorts of things, Poland is far more of a guide of how Western civilization should be. The fact that they’re supporting Ukraine, I think, is the way what we should be doing.

00;48;57;19 – 00;49;25;06
Did you see that, Polish politician talking recently, you know, about and, he was going through all he was at a conference is is it was it was on X, you know, just today and he’s going through all the statistics that we highlighted. You know, Harris’s film about sexual assault in your Western, your, and, the clarity that comes out of these, these kind of gatherings and so on used to it.

00;49;25;06 – 00;49;52;00
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00;49;52;02 – 00;50;20;18
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