Acceptance of Homosexuality Grows, Even Among ‘Conservatives’

Three New Polls from Gallup & One Unfortunate Proposal

By William M Briggs Published on May 28, 2018

Guy Benson is a conservative talk radio “personality” at Fox News and political editor of Townhall. He made headlines last week after he proposed the impossible to a man in a rowboat in France.

What makes the story interesting were the more than two thousand positive responses Benson garnered, many from prominent “conservatives.” Conservative bad boy columnist Kurt Schlichter tweeted a picture of clinking champagne glasses. Associate Editor at Commentary Noah Rothman said congratulations. As did Jonah Goldberg and the Iowa Hawk David Burge. Republican National Committee member Harmeet K. Dhillon wished happiness. War strategist talking head David Reaboi said Mazel Tov.

Dozens and dozens of Blue Cheka (Twitter verified users) journalists from the Wall Street Journal, Fox News, Washington Examiner, National Review, and so on gushed with enthusiasm.

And no less than Brett Baier said “Guy — congratulations! It takes guts to ask in a wobbly boat — all the best. Thanks for sharing the moment. Love is cool.”

Baier, who is Catholic, forgot that supporting the intrinsically disordered desire for sodomy is not love. Real love would have said, “Men, you are imperiling your immortal souls. Do not do this.”

Help us champion truth, freedom, limited government and human dignity. Support The Stream »

Perhaps Twitter censored negative responses, because I was unable to discover any. Or perhaps those who understood that marriage between two men is metaphysically impossible, feared the mob, and so kept their mouths shut. Either way, given the enthusiasm for Benson’s folly from those ostensibly on the right, the results from Gallup’s new polls on (let us call it) non-traditional sexuality will come as no surprise.

First Poll

The first is “Two in Three Americans Support Same-Sex Marriage.” Two in three Americans, in other words, have forgotten the reality that matrimony can only exist between men and women.

Twenty years ago the proportion was just over one in four. Support has steadily grown. If the trend holds, in a decade we can expect something pushing 90%.

There are still some differences between Democrats as Republicans. Eighty-three percent of Democrats support fictional marriage — and not 100%, as might be expected. Republicans are closing in on 50%. If the responses to Benson are any guide, the rate among prominent Republicans is probably higher.

Gallup’s bottom line said it best:

With the third anniversary of the Supreme Court’s decision nearing and no formidable opposition trying to undo gay marriage’s legality, it’s likely that the percentage of married LGBT adults in the U.S. will continue to grow as new generations of same-sex couples enjoy their newfound rights.

Second Poll

Poll number two is “In U.S., Estimate of LGBT Population Rises to 4.5%.

Clearly this stats have nothing to do with biology. The high and increasing rate for Millennials points to the fashionable nature of irregular sex.

Gallup’s tracking for those identifying as LGBT didn’t start until 2012, when 5.8% of Millennials claimed to have non-biological “orientations.” That number soared to 8.2% in five short years.

Contrast that group with the numbers for Generation Xers (born 1965-1979), Baby boomers (born 1946-1964), and Traditionalists (born 1913-1945). Rates of non-biological orientation for these folks held fairly steady or were unchanged over the same period. It was 3.5% for Gen Xers, 2.4% for Boomers, and 1.4% for Traditionalists. Clearly these stats have nothing to do with biology. The high and increasing rate for Millennials points to the fashionable nature of irregular sex.

Gallup didn’t report on those born after 2000, probably because these folks are not yet adults. But evidence from the CDC indicates the rates for teens are about the same as for Millennials. The surveys are not equivalent, so there is some uncertainty in the numbers.

Third Poll

The last poll is “More Say ‘Nature’ Than ‘Nurture’ Explains Sexual Orientation.

More than half of Americans now say that people are born desiring non-biological sex. Some 30% admit upbringing or the child’s environment cause people to develop unnatural desires. And about 10% say both nature and nurture play a role.

The trends in belief should be no surprise. In the late 1970s, only 14% said people were “born that way” (or perhaps “made by God” that way), and now as stated it’s just about 50%. All groups tracked by Gallup — from church goers to conservatives — saw large increases. If the trends continue, more than two-thirds will have convinced themselves people come equipped at birth with disordered sexual inclinations.

Bottom Line

Gallup assays the politics correctly: “Americans who believe gays and lesbians are born with their sexual orientation are much more supportive of gay rights than are those who say orientation is due to upbringing and environment.”

It’s also become clear that these more supportive people are becoming less tolerant of contrary judgments. The prediction that in one or two decades speaking of reality will be classed as “hate speech” becomes less outlandish each day.

Print Friendly
Comments ()
The Stream encourages comments, whether in agreement with the article or not. However, comments that violate our commenting rules or terms of use will be removed. Any commenter who repeatedly violates these rules and terms of use will be blocked from commenting. Comments on The Stream are hosted by Disqus, with logins available through Disqus, Facebook, Twitter or G+ accounts. You must log in to comment. Please flag any comments you see breaking the rules. More detail is available here.
  • Nicholas

    I give up. Conservatives are frauds. I pray that God unleashes His righteous judgment upon the Earth.

  • Paul

    “Acceptance Of Homosexuality Grows, Even Among ‘Conservatives’
    Three New Polls from Gallup & One Unfortunate Proposal

    By HOMOSEXUALITY
    May 28, 2018 • ”

    Who is this new author at the stream?

    • The topic was inadvertently entered into the author field. The author is William Briggs. We regret the error, which has now been corrected.

  • Patmos

    The STRONG delusion mentioned by Paul in 2nd Thessalonians is playing out right before our eyes.

    This is just beginning folks, we’re past the tipping point. It’s only going to get worse, so hold on to your hats. People had their chance here in the US and the West, but loved darkness more than the light.

    Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

    • John Connor

      The sky is falling because people are supportive of gays marrying? Stop the histrionics.

      • LifeIsDesigned

        It sure is for the bakers, florists and photographers that refuse to do ssm. Oh, and nursing home workers in CA. And the Christian pizzeria that refused to host a ssm reception then got death threats.

        • Andrew Mason

          Also that wedding dress business, and anyone thinking of renting their now vacant property. Homofascists do not believe in tolerance.

          • John Connor

            Wrong. They’re intolerant of being discriminated against. Open your eyes.

          • Andrew Mason

            What I’m seeing is bigotry and hatred towards those with a ‘wrong’ religious orientation. That’s supposed to be legally protected.

          • John Connor

            What I see is a very small group of bigots across the country discriminating against my fellow humans.

          • Andrew Mason

            Nice to see you concede homofascism is a problem. 🙂

          • John Connor

            Lol! No such thing snowflake!

          • Andrew Mason

            And yet it is homofascists and their allies who are persecuting innocent folk for their religious orientation. If they weren’t demanding primacy for their lifestyle choice, a choice which isn’t constitutionally protected by the way, then there’d be no lawsuits.

          • John Connor

            They’re demanding equal treatment mr wizard. The lawsuits are about discrimination….nothing more. Your religious persecution narrative is beyond ridiculous considering the actual persecution of Christians overseas.

          • Andrew Mason

            No the homofascists are demanding supremacy not guaranteed by the Constitution, and the right to override constitutionally guaranteed freedoms. Honestly, you liberals would be claiming persecution isn’t a problem even while filling up the gas chambers. Sure the current level of persecution differs to that of China, North Korea, or even India, but do you really want to be following in their footsteps?

          • John Connor

            Supremacy? What a joke. They want the same rights as everyone else enjoys. You haven’t a clue about real persecution

          • Andrew Mason

            So what do you call folk being run out of business, denied service, or kids being forced to learn they’re wrong at school? Seems like you’d be happy to claim the Third Reich offered equality too.

          • John Connor

            Kids being forced to learn they’re wrong?? What?? Denied service….you’re thinking of all the gay folks who have been denied service. The business chose to break public accommodation laws and discriminate.

          • Andrew Mason

            Kids are being taught that choosing to embrace an LGBT lifestyle is normal, natural, healthy etc despite scientific evidence to the contrary. And those whose orientation precludes affirming such claims are bullied, or worse.

            Denied service as in the shop won’t sell them the cake they’ve ordered and the state has supported the shop, that the printer refuses to print the book per the contract they’ve signed etc. I could also throw in points about adoption, parenting, or government sanctioned theft of children but I doubt you’d care.

            And no the businesses in question have First Amendment rights. So long as they don’t discriminate against people they’re free to refuse to support homosexuality. This appears to not be the case in Britain where the judiciary is leaning towards enforcing speech and conduct – a Jewish printer is legally required to print pro-Holocaust material for instance.

          • John Connor

            You obviously read different scientific studies than I do. Every medical organization in the US supports homosexuality as a normal variant of sexual orientation and that kids do fine with them as parents.

          • Andrew Mason

            Probably, and of course there’s the issue of bias – self selecting samples, ostracization and prejudice against those who speak out etc. As for every medical organisation supporting homosexuality, do they? Or is it the standard case of leadership hijacking the structure? If I’m not misremembering there was a kerfuffle not so long ago over about the organisational position at either a state or federal level for one or more of the professional associations.

          • John Connor

            Look it up

          • Shaquille Davis

            Eat crap you bigoted idiot.

          • Andrew Mason

            Er you misphrased that. Your post could be misconstrued as being directed at me rather than the bigots trying to ruin lives.

        • John Connor

          Death threats and such are never acceptable. If you’re in a business open to the public, you have to serve the whole of the public.

          • kamiller42

            “the whole of the public”? This does not comport with reality. Many businesses choose to not offer services or products which would cater to certain groups of people. Try ordering bacon at a Jewish deli. It’s not on the menu. For some cake bakers, etc., catering same sex events is not on the menu.

          • John Connor

            Nobody asked them to cater. They were asked to bake the same type of cake they bake for others

          • kamiller42

            Not cater the entire affair, but certainly the cakes. Baking cakes for those events is not on the menu. Those cakes and the events they’ll be present in are not the same.

          • John Connor

            They bake cakes for straight couples thus they shall bake cakes for gay couples. Thus saith the public accommodation laws. Keeps people like yourself from discriminating at will.

          • kamiller42

            You fail to see it is you and your side doing the discrimination. Some discrimination is more equal than others.

          • John Connor

            My side? You mean the majority of Americans? Wow

          • Shaquille Davis

            You are a damn fool

          • kamiller42

            Hostility towards those not like you because of prejudice is discrimination. That’s exactly the treatment those wishing to live their faith are experiencing.

          • John Connor

            Wedding cakes were on the menu at the baker’s and wedding flowers for the florist. Next?

          • LifeIsDesigned

            Portraits are on the menu of a portrait photographer. Should a portrait photographer be forced to shoot a porn scene?

          • John Connor

            They’re not being asked to shoot porn. They’re being asked to photograph what they advertise for…weddings. Fail

          • LifeIsDesigned

            You avoided the question, I would too if I were you.

          • John Connor

            No I didn’t gpsdaddy. Is that something the photographer does on a regular basis then yes. These folks were asked to photograph a wedding. Nothing more nothing less.

          • LifeIsDesigned

            That is not the question I asked. I’ll ask it again:

            If a photographer has portraits on the menu and someone comes into the business asking for a nude portrait must the photographer comply even if it violates their conscious?

          • John Connor

            If they are being asked to provide a service that they advertise for, then they must provide that service to the whole of the public. How could taking wedding photos that they advertise for violate their conscious?

          • LifeIsDesigned

            I’m not asking about weddings. I’m talking about an arbitrary portrait photographer who on the menu has portraits. Someone comes in asking for nude portraits. A wedding is not in scope in my question. Is the photographer legally obligated to take the photos if it violates their conscious?

          • Shaquille Davis

            You are awesome. People like you give me hope for the world/humanity.

          • Elizabeth Bennett

            Sigh- Serving the whole public has never been in question. A same-sex couple has always been welcome to sashay into any of these businesses, order anything off the menu, order specialized cakes at the bakeries, take up a booth in a prominent place and loudly argue about the most fabulous venue for their same-sex ‘wedding.’ All without discrimination. What they may not do is force participation by the business owners in a particular event that runs contrary to that business-owners conscience. In the same way, Chica-fila may not force a homosexual florist to make centerpieces for their company Christmas party, the Family Research Council may not force a homosexual caterer to cater a “Natural Marriage Support” planning meeting, a Christian couple may not force a homosexual baker to use his artistic talent to design a cake that quotes a Bible verse condemning homosexuality. The ‘non-discrimination and serving the whole public’ narrative is simply slight of hand to rob people of liberty of conscience.

          • John Connor

            sigh……They did the same thing to African-Americans in the 1950’s . You’re so wrong on so many levels. Sad for you…

          • LifeIsDesigned

            This is the foundation that the whole LGTB movement is based on… making an equivocation between sexual attraction and skin color. This is a false equivocation. It has no scientific support. The more the LGTB movement wins in court and the more they bully their way to a privileged group the more this fault will be scrutinized. Back when SSM was passed there was hope that there would be a genetic link found. That hope is now gone. So the argument that passed SSM no longer exists. This means that all the changes made to laws on this basis are based on falsehood.

            When this is realized the backlash will be strong. Even those who side with the LGTB movement that I know are worn out by the bullying being done by this movement.

          • John Connor

            Sorry gpsdaddy but nobody is being bullied but the gays who are denied service.
            Bring your backlash. I welcome it.

      • Patmos

        You do realize that by not even knowing what I was referring to, and instead opting to try to put words into my mouth you only validate what I said, don’t you?

        Silly question, of course you don’t. You are part of those effected by the strong delusion. You’re just so focused on yourself, that there’s no getting through to you.

        • John Connor

          No delusions here. I’m not in to discrimination against my fellow man. Go ahead and enjoy yourself. It only makes you look less human

      • This is a standard tactic of the Left – ridicule the incremental change as being insignificant. But why then do they celebrate each victory? The incremental changes are significant and important. And they add up. First it was “letting gays marry won’t affect your traditional values at all”. Then it was, “bake this cake or we’ll destroy you.”

        • John Connor

          To start, I’m not a leftist or liberal or democrat.
          The business owners had no legitimate reason to deny service. They did it out of their own bigotry.

          • Kevin Quillen

            being queer is not like being black, white, male or female. Until being born queer is proven beyond a doubt, they can be refused service. Prance into my place acting out and I would send you packing. Same with a drunk, an outspoken bigot or anyone expecting me to approve there sin.

          • John Connor

            Nobody’s acting out. They want to treated equally. What a tough guy you are..

          • Shaquille Davis

            You are an outspoken bigot.

  • KilgoreCarp

    We accept homosexuality…but we still think it’s creepy.

  • Love the sinner, hate the sin, is the way we should approach this issue. It’s an absolutely critical distinction, yet to a very great extent we’re losing it. We Christian conservatives need to keep the difference between the spiritual and the political in mind as we engage the culture, lest we feed on the leaven of Herod. It’s great to see all the corrections and advances that are being accomplished under Trump, but we can’t let that obscure the heart of our mission on earth.

    What the church needs is a more powerful witness of Christ’s power and love, both, beginning on the individual personal level in each of us. The only way I know to get that is through prayer and fasting. When the enemy comes in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord will raise a standard against him. Conquer, Holy Spirit, beginning with us.

    • Patmos

      “No one can come to me unless granted by the father.” -Jesus Christ

      It ain’t up to anyone but God, so it’s foolish to loose even a wink of sleep over it, or think that the body of Christ is somehow failing. These people had their chance, and like I said below they loved darkness instead of light. Now is God is sending strong delusion, and the gospel is getting twisted by that delusion, something we are already seeing. This confusion about will God open the door to the son of perdition, because people won’t have the wherewithal to determine what is what. They are more or less locked into themselves, like John Conner below, and it’s the toxic mixture of selfishness and delusion that will blot out any truth.

      Not saying anything is imminent; the long suffering of the Lord is salvation. There will even be people saved from here on out, but the tide has turned. That has to be recognized, because every indication shows it.

      Should emphasize, this is not a bad thing. If any believer has to adjust their plans because of this development, then those plans probably weren’t right to begin with.

      • 7cubed

        Stand strong, God bless you.

      • John Connor

        So I’m selfish and deluded due to wanting the same rights for gay folks as you and I enjoy? This is yet another reason I left the church…no tolerance for anyone outside of what they consider normal. smh/

        • Kevin Quillen

          how can you consider queers normal when they cannot reproduce?

          • John Connor

            There are many straights who can’t either can you show me where having children is a prerequisite for marriage or normalcy?

    • 7cubed

      Stand strong. God bless you.

    • Dan

      Would you agree every Christian regardless of their sexual orientation ;can say that exact same thing ; love the sinner hate the sin?

  • Stephen D

    I just hope this is the Last Days, because if it’s not the next generation is going to suffer big-time from the social catastrophe that is unfolding now.

  • JP

    No surprise here. How many people are public school educated and are not critical thinkers? Lots.

    • Boris

      How many people are home schooled and are not critical thinkers? All.

      • 7cubed

        What?!?! That is an incredibly asinine statement. Public schools SUCK. Some very smart folks don’t want their kids indoctrinated by the wacko Left. And they teach them very well at home, about the stuff that matters. Who the hell do you think you are? Your statement indicates you dropped out of Clown School. Get Lost, Forkwad

        • Paul

          “What?!?! That is an incredibly asinine statement.”

          Boris is good at that.

        • Boris

          Home schooling is child abuse. There is not anyone alive who can teach all the subjects young people need to learn about, especially science. Some very stupid parents with no science education keep their children home for religious brainwashing and to make sure they never learn any critical thinking skills. California stats colleges were the first to reject home schooled morons but now most states have followed suit. I’ve met home schooled kids and even worked with them but it is impossible. The ones taught by Christians are pretty much competley retarded, just like their parents.

  • Kevin Quillen

    where are the Pastors who will say “tax exemption be damned” and flood the local school boards and politicians offices with church members? God or mammon?

  • Andrew Mason

    How long before religious orientation is deemed grounds for incarceration?

  • LifeIsDesigned

    I feel that there are two primary factors that is driving America’s homosexual moment:

    The first is that sex has become a god. We now worship sex in our society. Sex is portrayed as solving all of our problems. But getting sex is much harder than is portrayed on TV. And it under-delivers.

    The second factor that I see is loneliness. Sex solves loneliness, right? No matter who you have sex with, right? wrong. It does not but the message is that it does.

    Since sex is now a god and god solves all problems and it does not matter whom you have sex with… then same-sex sex is just as valid of a solution as any other to address loneliness.

    How can Christian’s and the church push back on this?

    1. Build stronger and better communities. Loneliness is affecting the church as much as anyone else. To do this we need to:
    2. Turn off the TVs. In fact, cancel your TV service.
    3. Put away the social media and even end your social media accounts.
    4. For those who are work-alcoholics, stop worshiping your job.
    5. Now build your family and church communities.

    • John Connor

      Looks like gpsdaddy reincarnated

  • Jane

    Bull! Not true! You are only counting people who say they are conservative; not true conservatives.

    • John Connor

      Proof?

  • David M.Lord

    Two thirds of the thousand so called conservatives polled stated they supported sodomite unions! Wow! Phhhhh….!!! Usual lying BS!!! Brett Baer wants to play both sides! What a hack!

  • kamiller42

    Most of the noted conservatives are actually Libertarians, a group of people which often confuse liberty with libertine.

  • Paul

    “The prediction that in one or two decades speaking of reality will be classed as “hate speech” becomes less outlandish each day.”

    It’s already so in Sweden and Canada, and being pushed in California.

    en.m.wikipedia(DOT)org/wiki/Åke_Green

    hrbrief(DOT)org/2012/05/european-court-upholds-lgbt-provisions-of-swedish-hate-speech-law/

    http://www.straight(DOT)com/blogra/411046/anti-abortion-anti-gay-activist-bill-whatcott-admits-defeat-canada

    http://thefederalist(DOT)com/2018/04/30/factcheck-org-wrong-californias-lgbt-therapy-ban-ban-bibles/

    • Kevin Quillen

      the question is……will you stand for truth? I will.

      • Paul

        The question is more like… will you sacrifice your business or career, will you be fined by Caesar, will you go to prison for the truth?

        • Kevin Quillen

          Yes.

      • Shaquille Davis

        I will stand for truth. That’s why I won’t stand with you people.

        • Wow, you really enjoy calling people names, don’t you. And you are so liberal and accepting of people that don’t think like you. Certainly, if there were more people in the world like you, it would be a better place.

          • Shaquille Davis

            I’m intolerant of intolerance. Deal with it.

          • LOL. Waddaya gonno do it I don’t? Beat me up? Your tolerance reminds me of the tolerance of Stalin and Mao, which is why you “tolerant” lefty, liberal, progressives are so scary and dangerous.

  • Just Googled Gay, I mean Guy Benson (I was actually shocked), and this came up: Guy Benson: I’m Christian, Conservative & Gay … So What? – YouTube. What you are is deluded.

    • John Connor

      There are many gay christians. Get out much?

      • I can see you have nothing better to do with your life than try to contradict Bible believing Christians. I hope it’s fulfilling.

        • John Connor

          Do you need a safe space? This is a public forum. Bible believing christians cannot even agree on a single religion. Your prevarication will always be called out.

          • John, thank you so much for the service you provide shining truth on all things. What a genius you are!

          • John Connor

            Thanks so much for showing us your tolerance for the opinions of others

          • Boy, talk about the pot calling the tea kettle black.

          • John Connor

            I have zero tolerance for those who discriminate

          • What about those who discriminate against conservative Christians?

          • John Connor

            I don’t tolerate any discrimination.

          • Shaquille Davis

            Theres a little thing called the paradox of tolerance by Karl popper look it up. You must be intolerant of intolerance to make/keep a tolerant society.

      • Kevin Quillen

        there are NO queer Christians that are actually carrying out queer behavior. One can be queer and a Christian if one recognizes their sin and is trying to overcome it.

        • John Connor

          Sure there are

        • Shaquille Davis

          Up yours idiot.

    • Shaquille Davis

      Screw you. Bigoted moron

  • The idea that homosexuality is inborn is ridiculous on its face, and is anti-science in the extreme. There have been appropriate double blind twin studies conducted that have proven this notion to be utterly false.

    Only an idiot believes this is nature rather than nurture, and for that matter, homosexual nurture is based in abuse. Go read _The Last Closet_ by Moira Greyland

    • John Connor

      You are sorely mistaken to think that is a settled issue. Those studies proved absolutely nothing. Keep spreading your religious propaganda…. it’s good entertainment!
      “The relationship between biology and sexual orientation is a subject of research. A simple and singular determinant for sexual orientation has not been conclusively demonstrated; various studies point to different, even conflicting positions, but scientists hypothesize that a combination of genetic, hormonal, and social factors determine sexual orientation.[1][2][3]”

      • Yes, the scientific method and statistics is just “religious propaganda” to those of you with confirmation bias.

        • John Connor

          Nonsense. You just do t like being wrong. Too funny

          • I’m talking about the difference between self-selected datasets and double blind studies, and you just post a stupid wikipedia article that can be edited by anybody.

            And you term that “religious propaganda”

            Which you clearly don’t know the meaning of the term.

          • John Connor

            Prove it wrong.

          • John Connor

            A genetic analysis of 409 pairs of gay brothers, including sets of twins, has provided the strongest evidence yet that gay people are born gay. The study clearly links sexual orientation in men with two regions of the human genome that have been implicated before, one on the X chromosome and one on chromosome 8.

            The finding is an important contribution to mounting evidence that being gay is biologically determined rather than a lifestyle choice. In some countries, such as Uganda, being gay is still criminalised, and some religious groups believe that gay people can be “treated” to make them straight.

            “It erodes the notion that sexual orientation is a choice,” says study leader Alan Sanders of the NorthShore Research Institute in Evanston, Illinois

          • JP

            This is nonsense. There is no “gay” gene. Do you know that before 1973 psychology considered homosexuality a mental illnesses? It was changed not because of some new findings but because of politics.

          • John Connor

            Not politics. They found that homosexuality is a normal variant of human sexuality. Nice try

          • JP

            Wrong.

          • John Connor

            Sure you are

          • Shaquille Davis

            Yes thank you

          • LifeIsDesigned

            Sorry, John, the scientific community is not standing behind this. There is no gay gene.

          • John Connor

            Tell it to someone else gpsdaddy

          • Shaquille Davis

            How about you think your way into being a more tolerant person

          • davidrev1911

            Come again? Ahhhhhh yes…another textbook, American pop-culture [i.e., incoherent] demonstration of the intolerance of tolerance on undeniable display – in true PC fashion at that!

            And this from the individual of whom, just above, responded so tolerantly and graciously with – “Screw you.” You just can’t make this stuff up, when it comes to you intellectual elitists “controlling the cultural microphone.”

          • It’s already been proven wrong by the double blind twin studies. If there was a genetic component, you’d find all identical twins with at least one gay sibling, having both siblings gay.

            Since we don’t, the genetic component has been disproven.

            It’s that simple. Either you believe in the scientific method or you don’t, and a lot of people in this arena do not want to believe in the scientific method for fear that NAMBLA was right- the way to make sure that there are gays, is pederasty. Sex by 8 or it’s too late.

          • John Connor

            Read my post below. Proves you’re wrong

          • Your post below refers to scientifically inaccurate and biased studies that have no validity.

          • John Connor

            Sure it does. Back to that hotbed of censorship called crisis magazine with tou

          • Clearly like most LGBT supporters, you know nothing about statistics or the meaning of the word normal, let alone how to construct a scientifically valid study.

          • John Connor

            Wrong again mrwizard. You just haven’t a clue as to what or who I am. Trained in the sciences. Learned to read and critique research many years ago.

          • Then why are you falling for the trick of using selected sample sizes below the margin of error for the general population?

          • John Connor

            I can post several more studies that debunk your twins study.

          • Yes, but all of them have the same basic flaw: Done for pay by researchers searching for a pre-determined conclusion, using selected sample sizes below the margin or error for the size of the population to the point that the conclusion can’t be supported.

            Most studies of minorities have the same problem actually. You have the same problem studying autism.

          • Shaquille Davis

            oh and you think your studies made and used for religious bullcrap aren’t guilty of the same things. You are so blind. You can’t just say a bunch of scientific sounding words and assume that gives your dumb arguments credibility.

          • Mathematics isn’t science, but it does underlie all real science. If your study isn’t statistically significant, that means it is biased.

          • Shaquille Davis

            Even if that was true which it isn’t they are doing the exact same thing as your crap studies. Also if it is possible for people to change how about you change into a more tolerant person

          • What they fail to do is use a statistically significant random sample. Unfortunately, even much of the studies done on heterosexuals are equally flawed. That’s what you get when you rely on a madman doing sexual studies on inmates convicted of rape.

          • LifeIsDesigned

            so, then who are you John Conner?

          • Shaquille Davis

            You are the one who knows nothing about statistics or normality retard.

          • The statistical definition of normal is within the 1st sigma of the bell curve of a given population. Since homosexual behavior has never exceeded 10% of the population, and is usually at 2%, that puts them outside of the 1st sigma- abnormal by definition.

            And you’ve proven that you are abusive.

          • Shaquille Davis

            No they are not. You just call them that because they expose you for what you are a mindless bigot desperate for justification of his horrible beliefs.

          • No, I call them that because they have sample sizes smaller than their margin of error. Go learn some statistics, and come back when you can keep a civil tongue in your head.

          • Shaquille Davis

            I do believe in the scientific method which is how I know you are wrong. Oh yeah and they done studies and have found that gay twins have different DNA from their straight twin sibling. Intact it’s been known that identical twins are not completely similar genetically they have minor DNA differences from each other due to mutations etc. So the gay genetics idea still holds up unlike your crap beliefs.

          • There have been no such studies that have been statistically significant.

        • Shaquille Davis

          How can you really be so stupid and so blind? Damn fool

          • I’ve lived the abuse that homosexuals heap upon others.

      • JP

        No “gay” gene. If it was biological then there would be no such thing as ex homosexuals in which there are hundreds.

        • John Connor

          Laughable. Is that your professional scientific view??

          • JP

            Not just mine but countless scientists.

          • John Connor

            Prove it.

          • Kevin Quillen

            have you ever seen queers reproduce? Not natural, not normal.

          • John Connor

            Lol! There’s many hetero couples who can’t have kids. They reproduce through ivf, surrogates, and adoption just like straight folks.

          • LifeIsDesigned

            Sure. The research being done in brain science is showing that the way we think turns on or off multitudes of genes. Feelingsemotionsthoughts are all wrapped up together. A though has a feeling and a feeling has a thought. You cannot be attracted to some thing or someone without at the same time having thoughts. By controlling our thinking we know we control our feelings and we switch on or off genes that express those thoughts and feelings.

            So we are in control not our genes.

          • John Connor

            You need to do more reading

          • LifeIsDesigned

            I have. I suggest that you look into brain research and the plasticity of the brain. Thoughts and emotions are two sides of the same coin. We KNOW that thoughts turn on or off the expression of genes. This is a scientific fact. Brain chemistry is extremely complex and any attempt to point to a single gene in something like sexuality is yesterday’s ideas that no one who does serious brain research entertains.

            We also KNOW that thoughts can be health or toxic. We KNOW that toxic thoughts hurts the body AND that toxic thoughts can even kill. We know that brain structure of a health thought and a toxic thought are very, very different. We also know that we can rewire our brains from toxic thinking. The only organ on our body that can be rewired to work better. We KNOW that to do this it takes healthy thinking. None of what I am writing is in dispute any longer. None of it. Zilch. Zero.

            The narrative that “I was born that way” can now only be put forth by ignoring the large volume of scientific studies that are now out there on the brain.

          • John Connor

            You’re trying to push the notion that someone can become a homosexual by changing his or gene expression through thoughts? This in no way negates the born that way issue. You may think this as settled but it only shows your lack of knowledge in science. The brain, genes, hormones, sexual orientation , etc are very unexplored areas. We know less about the brain than we the bottom of the ocean.
            Keep trying o banned one. There isn’t a general consensus on any of it. The research goes on…

          • LifeIsDesigned

            “This in no way negates the born that way issue”

            Um, yes, actually it does. If by our thinking we control the expression of genes (I challenge you to show me this has not been scientifically established) and genes play a roll in our sexual attraction then there is no way to scientifically establish that someone is “born that way”.

            Furthermore, if by controlling and disciplining your thoughts you change your sexual attraction then we know by how thoughts and genes work now that you changes genes associated with sexual attraction. The fact that people are leaving homosexuality behind and changing their sexual orientation demonstrates that someone is not “born that way.”

          • John Connor

            Umm no it doesn’t. I challenge you to prove that gays aren’t born that way. You’ve cited some neuroplasticity studies but nothing that disproves the born that way theory. You obviously don’t grasp the fact that one cannot change their sexual orientation. I don’t believe for a minute that those who supposedly left homosexuality, like it’s a club…smh, don’t continue to be attracted to the same sex. Exodus international is a great example of a gay reparative therapy organization that went down the tubes because they couldn’t change their sexual orientation.

          • LifeIsDesigned

            Yea, I thought you could not bring anything to the table to show I am wrong. Just ad hominem attacks.

          • John Connor

            Lol! This isn’t an attack. This is why christians seem perpetually offended.

          • Shaquille Davis

            You are a damn fool sources or shut up

          • Shaquille Davis

            Give sources or shut the hell up

        • Shaquille Davis

          Yeah i Doubt any of those so called “ex-homosexuals” were actually “cured” they were either horribly brainwashed or just decided to fake it to get the torment to stop. conversion therapy if has been proven by actual, real, qualified scientists to be extremely harmful more than successful if it is ever sucessful at all.

      • Shaquille Davis

        Thank you for speaking truth

    • LifeIsDesigned

      Your correct. Have you seen Dr. Leaf’s research? Look her up. She is one of a number of brain scientists that are showing that we are not victims of our biology. By the way we think we switch on or off multitudes of genes. We are in control not our genes.

      • I will do so. Had not heard of her before.

        • LifeIsDesigned

          Get back to me on what you think.

      • Shaquille Davis

        Dr leaf is full of crap just like you are.

      • Interesting concept, I’ll have to do more research than the six youtube videos I watched. It’s like a more scientific version of the “fake it until you make it” strategy that is so common in my field of software engineering.

        • LifeIsDesigned

          You’ll have to expand on that. I do not understand what you mean.

          • Positive affirmations, name it and claim it prayer, and Buddhism (of all things) have one thing in common: Managed expectations. The idea is that your thoughts affect your well being, including your physical health, way more than most people are aware of. This is part of the reason why PTSD has physical symptoms, and you’re right, it’s very connected to the amazing expansion of aberrant sexuality profiles in the last 50 years or so. Hurt people, go on to hurt other people. Toxic thoughts get internalized, so that the boy teased for being different at age 6 and being queer at age 7 and being raped by his homosexual uncle at age 8, by age 13 has repressed those memories and believes what everybody was telling him all along: that he is gay and should act gay. At which point he grows up to prey on another young child, just as he was preyed upon.

          • LifeIsDesigned

            There are no innocent thoughts. Every though either builds a health brain and body or it tears down the brain and body. This can be taken too far in that we cannot think ourselves into being a horse for example. We cannot think ourselves into changing our skill color. But desires and feelings are very much within our ability to change them by how we think. The bible tells us this. This means that this knowledge has been around for a very loooong time. Brain science is not needed to know these things.

            But that does not make changing “wrong” sexual desire easy. It can be very, very difficult. But to say that its not changeable is actually making the decision that your not going to change it.

      • John Connor

        Looked her up. She’s a quack. Definitely not trained in neuroscience. She’s a speech pathologist and audiologist. Laughable as she no degree in neuroscience at all.

        • LifeIsDesigned

          Thats all you have, John, is a laugh. Your right on queue with how atheists use science to bully. If someone is getting to close to home then laugh loudly to try and shut them up…

          • John Connor

            No need to bully. Her credentials and what other REAL brain scientists have to say about her. It’s really a hoot how y’all will latch onto any little thing that might support your position but in the end it’s just fraudulent nonsense.

          • LifeIsDesigned

            Just standing up to a bully, nothing more. Her research speaks for itself which there is no way you could have possibly reviewed in such a short time. So your guilty of character assassination. But that tends to be your MO when your back is to the wall.

          • John Connor

            Backs not against the wall. She’s very easy to look up on the net. Not a neuroscientist. To further that she is would be pure prevarication. Prove me wrong

          • LifeIsDesigned

            First, your using a statesman argument. Typical of atheists. You do not need to be a neuroscientist to study in this area professionally. However, if you want neuroscientists then I suggest you look at the “Integrated Mind Network” of scientists she is doing research with… that group has three neuroscientists.

          • John Connor

            There’s entire websites desktop debunking her nonsense. Keep pushing these quacks. It exposes your hypocrisy for all to see

          • LifeIsDesigned

            Lets examine this website and your claim:

            First you insist that unless Dr. Leaf is a neuroscientis she has no authority to speak on the subject. A straw-man argument that is further discredited by there being three neuroscientis in her research network. Then you find a site put up by ONE man you now hail as debunking Dr. Leaf who is NOT a neuroscientis.

            The man behind this website, Dr. Pitt, never reached out to Dr. Leaf to engage her professionally. Dr. Leaf ran across his blog and instead reached out to him professionally. He never responded to her inquiries. So Dr. Leaf responded to his criticisms in her professional work. You can view the rebuttals here:

            drleaf(dot)com(slash)about(slash)scientific-faqs

            This man has continued trying to discredit Dr. Leaf for so long that she had to do a background check on him. The Austrian authorities indicated that he was a potential physical threat to her. She now has to hire security if she is going to speak publicly in his area.

            Why don’t you try looking into things first and ask questions of Dr Leaf before you look foolish.

          • LifeIsDesigned

            Lets examine this website and your claim:

            First you insist that unless Dr. Leaf is a neuroscientis she has no authority to speak on the subject. A straw-man argument that is further discredited by there being three neuroscientis in her research network. Then you find a site put up by ONE man you now hail as debunking Dr. Leaf who is NOT a neuroscientis.

            The man behind this website, Dr. Pitt, never reached out to Dr. Leaf to engage her professionally. Dr. Leaf ran across his blog and instead reached out to him professionally. He never responded to her inquiries. So Dr. Leaf responded to his criticisms in her professional work. You can view the rebuttals here:

            drleaf(dot)com(slash)about(slash)scientific-faqs

            This man has continued trying to discredit Dr. Leaf and has never engaged Dr. Leaf at any time.

            Why don’t you try looking into things first and ask questions of Dr Leaf before you look foolish.

    • Shaquille Davis

      Doubt what that book says is real. You are the one who is anti-science. You are full of crap. Take your own life the world and the people in it will be better off without you.

      • I have no doubt that what Walter Breen wrote about in _Greek Love_, and his daughter Moira’s accumulation of evidence in _The Last Closet_ is real. In fact, half of what was in _The Last Closet_ is public record in California- used to convict her father of child abuse.

    • Shaquille Davis

      Homosexuality is obviously not because of abuse you ignorant fool.

      • Actually, it very much is the work of NAMBLA. The age difference in committed homosexual relationships makes it obvious. Not to mention that the act itself is abusive.

        • Shaquille Davis

          Do you even hear yourself? None ofvwhat you are saying is true. There are no studies from reputable sources that agree with your bullcrap.

          • Your behavior proves my point. The sexual revolution, both heterosexual and homosexual, is based in abusive and manipulative behavior.

          • I don’t care about “reputable”, I care about mathematical accuracy in the data sampling. “reputable” just means that they had a lot of advertising and publishing dollars put behind them.

        • John Connor

          Wow! Brought out nambla. It’s so ridiculous. Nambla is composed of pedophiles which has zero to do with being gay. Just your personal opinion that the act is abusive. You’re just another foregone conclusion. What page of your anti gay talking points does this come from?

          • Except for of course, that NAMBLA is how gays recruit new gays- by raping boys.

          • John Connor

            ROTFLMAO! Love that religious propaganda. How old are you? Smh

          • It isn’t religious propaganda. I’m 47. It’s how they tried to recruit me when I was 16 (far too late, I had already discovered girls and carried a knife so I was able to fight off the attempted rape- I still carry a knife). I’ve seen enough from people like Moira Greyland and David Kyle Foster to realize that homosexuality is more youth fetish than actual sexual orientation. And I’ve known one to many homosexuals who were raped as young children to believe the propaganda bubble that you are living in.

          • John Connor

            I have zero belief in anything you’ve said.

          • Of course not, that is how left wing brainwashing works.

          • John Connor

            Funny but I’m not a lefty. Too funny

          • As far as I am concerned, most Americans, with their worship of individual liberty, are lefties. Liberals.

          • John Connor

            Opinions vary

      • And yet, you immediately went to a form of abuse in your attempt to refute me.

  • Aliquantillus

    Gay culture will grow fastly and soon become the dominant force in the West, and it will destroy religion, freedom and democracy.

    • John Connor

      Histrionics much?

  • CadaveraVeroInnumero

    More nature than nurture? Pope Francis’ on board. As culture Catholicism is a goner.

  • MadAsMel

    I trust those polls about as much as the polls that said Hillary would be president

    • John Connor

      But they’re right on the money when they’re in trumps favor?

  • John Connor

    Now that is funny

  • John Connor

    Move to Russia.

  • John Connor

    LOL!

  • Christine Wright

    I am a conservative Christian, an evangelical. I am one person. I also support the right of gays to get married/have state sanctioned unions.

    I get this stance from the Bible. Specifically from 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 That passage is actually speaking about sexual immorality in both the world and the church. We don’t judge those who are outside the Church – that’s God’s purview according to the passage. Not mine.

    My assumption of the Bible as a whole, is that when in this world we should act charitably toward others, be a light of Christ in the world – not judging of the sins of others, and not avoiding those who sin – unless they call themselves my brother or sister in Christ.

    Christ loved me while i was a sinner. I wasn’t good enough to receive the grace of God and His good mercy, I was given it anyway.

    It wasn’t until after I was saved and filled with the Holy Spirit that I had any capacity to avoid sin. It took salvation to make me “good” (as men call good), and then not by my own power, but by the power of God.

    So if I am the light of Christ to the world, it is salvation I should teach, and not beat people over the head about their sin, as it’s the Holy Spirit who convicts the sinner of their sin, and not men.

    Once saved, the sinner will be convicted of their sin through the Holy Spirit. Then and only then will they have the power to avoid sin, and choose God’s way.

    I think trying to do the Holy Spirits job, is why so many people in the world hate Christians, we spend too much time trying to do the job of the Holy Spirit, and precious little time doing the job that was given us to do – preach the Gospel to the lost.

    • LifeIsDesigned

      So as a Christian you will send the message that two people of the same sex that want to marry is fine with you. But then if they want to be OK with God they then have to get a divorce? So long as they do not accept Christ then there is nothing wrong with their choices.

      What about some other sin? Do you send the message that its OK to get drunk or get high on drugs?

      • Christine Wright

        Do i think it’s sad that anyone reject God? Yes.. I do.

        Do I think it’s between them and God in the end? Yes.. I do.

        I would love to really impart to people what the love of God is like, how freeing it is to have power over sin, how awesome it is to have a relationship with God. How joyous it is to be in the presence of God…

        But I can only do so much, the rest is up to them and God and it’s not my choice to make for others.

        My responsibility then is to raise my own children correctly, teaching them to live in the world without being of this world, and trust that God will do what he does best. My example of how I live should be a light, not a darkness. it should show Christ, not better imitate ISIS.

        • LifeIsDesigned

          So you avoided my question. You have a double message that your are sending. How can you in good conscious affirm same-sex marriage and I quote you, “I also support the right of gays to get married/have state sanctioned unions”, but then tell them that they then must get a divorce in order to come into a right relationship with God?

          Also, why did you bring ISIS into this? Are you saying that a Christian either has your view of how to address this or they are the same as ISIS? Really? Thats is extreme hyperbole don’t you think?

          • Christine Wright

            It’s not a double message. The laws of the state are not the same as the laws of God. We do not have a religious government. Our government does not enforce God’s law for God.

            It’s not hyperbole to mention governments who do write policy for their god, in accordance to their religion. Anyone who runs their government according to their religoon can be compared to ISIS, or Iran, or any other government who does the same.

            It doesn’t matter that a homosexual might someday be saved. I guess they will have to deal with that at that time, just like every one else has to deal with leaving a life of sin and becoming a new person in Christ.

            It doesn’t mean we should force them to live according to a law they don’t believe in.. nothing gives us that right. For darn sure the Bible doesn’t – quite the opposite.

          • LifeIsDesigned

            Christine, thats a bunch of crap.

            You are using extreme hyperbole to compare a Christian who says that homosexuality is wrong and that state-sanctioned same-sex marriage is wrong is like ISIS.

            By your logic no sin is exempt. In fact, you cannot even disagree with the “laws” that ISIS has laid down in the areas they control. If we are going to throw out God’s law then what “law” will reign? What is the basis of law if its not God? Muslims see women as property. Why can’t that law be the law of this land? How about child prostitution? It’s legal in other countries. Laws can be changed.

            Here is the thing your not taking into account: law is all about forcing morality. If you do xxx then are considered a criminal.

            Consider what is going on in CA. They think that its wrong to NOT use the gender adjective another person uses to refer to themselves. So they have now made it a law making it criminal. By your logic you must agree with what CA is doing.

          • Christine Wright

            It’s not extreme hyperbole. The government isn’t a word that is synonymous with the church, we don’t have a state sanctioned religion and we don’t run the nation according to religious law.

            The second you think you do is the second you and I are following different Gods. God’s kingdom is not within U.S. borders…As Jesus said:

            “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

            When we vote, we vote according to what we think is best for society at large. Do our beliefs become a part of that? Yes … they do, I doubt it can be helped really, but the main question is always what is best for society (at large) when we vote, NOT whether or not something is a sin. If that were the case we’d make a whole lot more laws.. and a lot of Christians would be in jail for being bad Christians..

            So we look to what’s best for society – believers and unbelievers alike, just vote for the direction we’d like to see this country go in.

            The thing is we’ve all done that.. all of us have voted for that direction.

            And Guess what? We lost.

            I didn’t vote for homosexual marriages because I saw a lot of problems when it came to adoption… I don’t see homosexual households to be stable homes for children due to the higher proportions of mental illness in homosexual populations. I saw problems that were farther reaching than even that, such as at what point is the 501c3 status many churches sign up to going to affect a churches right to refuse to marry homosexuals.

            So. I had my social concerns.. Im positive we all did. But again we lost.

            In this country those who believe in God are now the clear minority. Those who are Christian are even further in the minority.

            Associating yourself as a Christian because your parents were is clearly different than being Christian – and those untruths are the only thing keeping the numbers of Christians in this country artificially high.

            Christians are the minority. Christian sons and daughters left the faith. They became atheists, or universalists, or humanists, or or or… but what they aren’t is Christian. They left our churches in droves and attendance shows it across the nation.

            Our first response to this new reality is NOT to become militant. It’s to pay close attention to the Bible, now more than ever, as to how we live as the group in minority in order that, as we lose power and number we DON’T loose our rights..

          • LifeIsDesigned

            Again, you ignore what I wrote…

          • Christine Wright

            Im not trying to.. I am trying to answer your points. Perhaps 5am is too early for my brain if you find i am not answering your points. Although I do have a tendency to ramble a bit..

          • Andrew Mason

            You said freedom of religion means giving people the freedom to be Atheists, but what of LGBT freedom? Schools are now teaching children those lifestyles and those whose orientation precludes affirming such a choice are persecuted. Businesses and employees who seek to be faithful to God, something theoretically protected by the 1st Amendment, are increasingly being faced with the choice reject God and affirm homosexuality, or lose your businessemployment. Homosexuals and trans may not be demanding everyone convert or die, but they and their activist allies are demanding everyone worship their beliefs or pay the price. LGBT is the new Caesar, and if Christians aren’t yet being thrown to the lions, that doesn’t mean they aren’t being persecuted.

          • Christine Wright

            I apologize I’ve been busy and have just now seen this. It might be late but let me say, you have the right to swing your arm if you like, but that right ends where my nose begins.

            I don’t disagree that the LGBT is often militant or that many of them are willing to trample our rights.. what I disagree with is steamrolling over the Bible and the constitution in order to trample theirs first.

            Look, we may fight this the right way, the way both the Bible and the constitution dictates we do, and find ourselves losing our freedoms. I get that people are afraid of that and the way the left is acting today its not unreasonable to worry about it.

            But fear is not from God. Period. It’s from Satan.

            God tells us He is sovereign and that we don’t need to worry about the things the world might worry about. That He has care of us and that He is in control. He had control of the situation when Paul was in jail, when Stephen was being killed etc etc.

            If this is our time of persecution then so be it. But refusing to follow what the Bible tells us and what the constitution has lined out, out of fear is like deciding to say the shahadah because the blade will cut your head off if you don’t. Sinning is not just unnecessary, it’s unwise.

            Besides. If we choose not to sin perhaps God will heal our nation… just perhaps. Either way, what matters most is us doing what God tells us to do.

          • Andrew Mason

            In what sense is Scripture and the Constitution being steam rolled? I don’t see any contradiction between discouraging a toxic lifestyle choice and advocating freedom. Remember if you consider lifestyles other than homosexuality – paedophilic, bstial, polygamous, adulterous etc, then most people (other than those engaged in such lifestyles) would concur than that they should be discouraged, or actively punished. Why is homosexuality treated differently?

            I agree that even if Christians live for God it doesn’t guarantee they will retain their freedom, or that America won’t suffer judgement. I see the growth of the Sharia movement in Western nations as the rod God is forming to punish those who demand the right to go their own way. Of course God isn’t restricted to a single option, or for any plan to only have a single goal. More Muslims in the West for instance also means more with theoretically easier access to salvation.

            While I concur that sin isn’t only unnecessary it’s unwise – albeit all too human, I don’t see it as a case of Christians refusing to follow what the Bible says, and what the Constitution outlines. Note this is defining Christian narrowly as there are obviously many groups who claim to be Christian yet espouse messages that are very different to what Scripture says. Perhaps you need to give some clear examples of conduct you see as contrary to Scripture, and state why you see them as such.

            In reading over your posts again I see you mention supporting SSM on the grounds that 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 instructs Christians to only judge those within the church, and yet you subsequently acknowledged that some conduct outside the church must be judged – a seeming paradox. You also gave the personal example of smoking as an example of an addiction or precious thing which if you’d known God would ask you to give up, might have cost you your faith as you had no faith in your capacity to do so. You contend that telling people how horrible they are and what they will need to sacrifice is a poor means of conveying salvation to the lost. The thing is if people aren’t horrible why do they need salvation? And while society accepts that white lies, adultery, or bullying for instance are somewhat bad, it is promoting the notion that homosexuality and trans is good – actively teaching children that in some countries! Isn’t it critical that Christians fight that untruth so long as they have the freedom to do so? Obviously an all rod no carrot approach isn’t Biblical. I’ll also note that some sins are socialcultural whereas others are explicitly mentioned in Scripture. There’s a joke I heard many years ago about a German Christian sitting at a cafe who started crying immediately upon seeing an American Christian and his tears ran down his cigar and dropped into his beer. Why was he so distressed? Because she was wearing makeup!

            I agree that what matters most is doing what God hasis instructing us, the question is what that is.

          • Christine Wright

            Since I don’t think we can “judge” in any religious sense those outside the church please show me where or why you think I say we have to? I’m confused… sorry.

            As far as your points go I will answer. I think as a society we have to decide how we want our society to be, without trampling others right’s.. This nation was outlined with certain freedoms.

            No, pedophilia will never be right for western society and I would stand against that. But why is that? My Christian beliefs don’t factor into that line of thinking, my innate and utterly human desire to protect an innocent child, couple that with the life-long physical and emotional damage to that child and it’s just all bad… my religion doesn’t factor into that belief, it might agree with it, but it’s not the sole factor to my belief, it’s simply in agreement of what’s already there.

            Jesus speaks of the fact people can be inherently what one would call good, and asks Christians to rise above the world’s standard (Matthew 5:47-48). But as 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 shows, it doesn’t extend to judging or trying to force the world to live according to our standards.

            So i see this as when we vote our vote and our voice does extend to a basic “good”, without trying to go so far as foist our beliefs on others who don’t choose them.

            I dont think living in the world without being of the world is easy, but I don’t believe all this militant hate of homosexuals is Godly, at all. It’s gone beyond voting what we think is best for society at this point.

            There is a young man who works for my husband. Around the last presidential election this young man began to get more and more morose and withdrawn… sad in a way my husband had never seen. It was so bad at one point that my husband finally asked him what was wrong, even though not getting into anyone’s personal life is a personal rule he has…

            Well the boy told him what was wrong.. he was afraid now that Trump won and the “right” had control of the house, Senate and presidency that there were going to be reeducation camps for gays – and he was also gay and was terrified of what was going to happen to him now.

            Now God only knows where he heard that because no such thing was ever even a consideration. I think that came out of the far left to scare people into voting for the left to be honest, but when a lot of right wingers get together and start talking about gays and homosexuality you have to admit that that passage in 1 Corinthians goes right out the window and Christians seem down right militant.. it’s little wonder then, that a young homosexual boy in the Appalachian mountains could belief such a thing as reeducation camps are possible.

            My husband shouldn’t have to tell a young man that he will protect him with his life if need be and that no one will ever hurt him because he made different life choices than we did.. It should be a given that in this nation Christians aren’t planning reeducation camps for goodness sakes.

            Yet it’s not… we have to ask ourselves at this point if we aren’t doing more harm than good in God’s name.. and at that point have we not crossed the line? I think we have..

            God loved me as a sinner, had His Hand upon my life and directed my path. Everything, every sin, everything bad that was in my life that was a part of who I was led me to the moment I was saved..

            Only the sick need a Physician… But our behavior should invite to Christ – not lead them to living in fear of us.

          • Andrew Mason

            Waaay downthread Jim Walker raised the issue of paedophilia and adapted the homosexual defence – I love X and “God understands I can’t change my sinful ways and because he loved me and his grace and the blood of Jesus will wipe me clean to go heaven like the rest”. You instantly insisted there was a clear difference between child rape and consensual adult relations, and that he was not to communicate with you any further or you’d flag him. The problem is sexual orientation is sexual orientation. Jim never raised this issue of rape or consent, that was your contribution. Clearly you’re prepared to judge some things outside the church. Would you even tolerate a paedophile living next to you, or attending your church?

            You contend that “… pedophilia will never be right for western society …” but why? Don’t get me wrong I fully support the protection of children, however if you study history you will see that paedophilia has been considered socially respectable, even desirable. I can’t give you an explanation of why those societies saw such relations as beneficial, only that they were so seen. That being the case without an external absolute system for determining whether we should or should not promote paedophilia, such as Scripture, I don’t see a means of defending against paedophilic rights. Most of the rights claimed or demanded by homosexuals can after all be demanded by paedophiles and other such groups.

            I’m not seeing anything in Matthew 5:47-48 to suggest people can be inherently good but rather a warning that if Christians care solely for their own kind they will be no different to the World. As for 1 Corinthians 5:9-13, I’d interpret that differently. Paul doesn’t contest that the sexually immoral, greedy, swindlers, or idolaters are in fact such, but merely that Christians should disassociate from those one who claim to be Christian whilst practicing such things. Judging people, in the sense of noting choices that Scripture deems sin, isn’t what Scripture warns against IMHO. As for trying to force the world to live according to our standards, don’t Christians have an obligation to encourage standards that best support God’s ideal for society? Easy divorce for instance damages individuals, families, and society in general. Should Christians simply shrug and contend it’s none of their business? Isn’t that abdicating their duty and failing to care for the society and people they live in? Hasn’t God commanded Christians to love their neighbours?

            I contend there’s a difference between emphatically rejecting homofacism, and actual hatred of homosexuals. Jesus was always clear that sin is sin.

            While I’ve seen that fear of Trump once before it’s so absurd that it’s hard to accept any rational person seriously believes it. Since right wingers is not the same as Christians what they say can differ to what Christianity teaches. More importantly, if the Left comments on the discussion their spin may be vastly at odds with what the conversation actually entailed. As for Christians being militant, I’d actually contend that all too many are offensively passive – and this probably includes myself. I’m not sure Christians becoming militant would be a bad thing, or contrary to Scripture, but of course it would depend on your definition of militant. By contrast, prior to the presidential result, I saw discussions about the possibility of Hillary opening reeducation camps. While extreme, I’d contend it’s far more realistic given the alarming rulings out of SCOTUS, or at least the Left there, who consistently favour imaginary lifestyle rights over constitutionally guaranteed religious freedom. The Left also seems to be far more concerned by imaginary right-wing extremism whilst downplaying or outright ignoring other forms of extremism.

          • LifeIsDesigned

            The law of the land in the 1’st century was to acknowledge Cesar as god. That was the LAW.

            Did the Christians do that?

          • Christine Wright

            Homosexuals aren’t demanding we become homosexual. We aren’t being faced with a situation where it’s following God or the state in our personal lives.

          • LifeIsDesigned

            OK, I will try one more time on this point and make it as clear as I can.

            In the 1st century the LAW of the land was that you had to acknowledge Cesar as god. If you did not then you were a criminal and could be crucified.

            My point is that this was the LAW but Christian would not acknowledge that.

            Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, just because SSM is law does NOT mean that we have to approve of it or support it. It’s really not law its a supreme court ruling. But SSM goes against the very core of the Christian paradigm. It undermines just about everything. Its not that far off from demanding that you acknowledge Cesar as god.

          • Christine Wright

            First – (again) there is a difference between being jailed because YOU wont personally commit a sin and laws existing that allow OTHERS to commit sins if they so choose to. Trying to make a corellation between being jailed or killed because you won’t sin against God is a false correlation to laws on the books allowing SSM (I just now figured out what ssm meant – good morning! Hahaha)

            NOT fighting it is supporting their right to do it should they so choose… and we stopped fighting it the day we lost to it. What is left to fight? Are we to become militant? No…. The Bible doesn’t call for that.

          • LifeIsDesigned

            You commit sin by agreeing to it.

          • LifeIsDesigned

            I guess I have to post this again since your ignoring it.

            By agreeing with SSM here is what you are also coming into agreement with:

            You agree that the biological design of the human body has no importance in this discussion.
            You agree that fathering can be done by women.
            You agree that mothering can be done by men.
            Or put in a different way, you agree that the unique roles that fathers and mothers bring to the table is not really unique but arbitrary.
            You disagree with God in Romans 1 that He has made things clear.
            You agree that a child does not need a mother.
            You agree that a child does not need a father.
            You disagree that a child has a right to be raised by their birth mother and father.
            You agree that the unit family is not important.
            You disagree with God that the way he designed the family is important.

          • Christine Wright

            I dont agree with any of that – I also believe that has societal consequences.

            I also DONT agree its my right to force my views on others against their will.. and my God agrees. He’s the one who taught me that.

            If I was in the middle east I’d be dead by now because converting to Christianity (also known as apostasy) is against the law.

            I disagree with religious rule. CHRISTIANITY disagrees with religious rule.

            Protestants fought tooth and nail against Catholicism, to be free to worship God how they believed was right.

            Who is anyone to decide for another human being how they should live and what they should believe?

            Normally we gather together in like communities – as protestants did here in America. But our numbers are few.. and our communities dwindling.. it is apparent that what we are doing right now isn’t working. We aren’t inviting people to Christ correctly.

            We are facing a time of persecution, and we’d better think long and hard about how we walk into that time.. God allows sin in this world – let us pray the world allows us to follow out personal faith.

          • LifeIsDesigned

            You need to upgrade your critical thinking skills, Christine.

            By agree with SSM you also agree with that list. Why? Because all of that list flows logically from SSM.

            If SSM is acceptable and you agree with it then you ALSO agree that a child is just fine with two mommies or two daddies. This means that either the father is not necessary or the mother is not necessary. Because we are talking marriage here then you also come into agreement that a child does not have a right to be raised by their birth mother and father. This is marriage we are talking about.

          • Christine Wright

            I absolutely disagree.

            Having freedom of religion also gives some people the freedom to follow no religion. We cant have it both ways, we cannot allow our own freedom without allowing others theirs.

            At any rate, this is why some Christians disagree with becoming militant. I see 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 as it being none of my business what the world does. It’s my job to share the gospel with the lost and raise my family – God deals with the rest himself and I trust it will all turn out the way God wants it to. I’m not about to start dictating policy to God.

            Anyway, while we disagree I would like to say I enjoyed the conversation with you. I’ll certainly keep you and your family in my prayers.

            God bless and keep you, and may his countenance shine upon you – and may all His people learn God’s will and act upon that will regardless of what that is. Amen

          • gladys1071

            I have been reading your posts, you make a lot of sense to me. This is exactly how i view my relationship with God, which is between me and God. I also agree with you that i am against religious rule.

            I also don’t understand how letting others live as they please “live or let live” has anything to do with me or my relationship with God.

          • LifeIsDesigned

            You know, Christine, there are paid liberals out there that pose as Christians and argue they way you do. I know this to be true. The Stream has flushed some of them out. No logic no matter how sound does not penetrate you. And you do nothing but propose a defeatist attitude. That is just what the left wants. They do not want Christian in the public square defending what they believe.

          • Christine Wright

            I’m sure that’s true. But I am just a person who happens to be Christian. I’m Baptist if that helps. I sign in under my Facebook account, and the majority of the people on my friends list are my husband’s family. (I am disowned from my own). I am who I am who I am. I voted for Trump in this last election. I’m ashamed of none of it, and I make zero apologies for my beliefs. I would die for any of them.

          • John Connor

            That’s quite a mouthful coming from an individual who was banned from this forum.

          • John Connor

            Nobody’s asking for your support or approval. Just to be treated as equals.

          • LifeIsDesigned

            Funny what “equals” means in CA now. There is now means that you have to follow what someone else uses as a gender pronoun or you can be criminally charged… Yup that is real equal.

          • LifeIsDesigned

            Tell that to CA Christians.

          • LifeIsDesigned

            By agreeing with SSM here is what you are also coming into agreement with:

            You agree that the biological design of the human body has no importance in this discussion.
            You agree that fathering can be done by women.
            You agree that mothering can be done by men.
            Or put in a different way, you agree that the unique roles that fathers and mothers bring to the table is not really unique but arbitrary.
            You disagree with God in Romans 1 that He has made things clear.
            You agree that a child does not need a mother.
            You agree that a child does not need a father.
            You disagree that a child has a right to be raised by their birth mother and father.
            You agree that the unit family is not important.
            You disagree with God that the way he designed the family is important.

          • John Connor

            1. Biology has zero to do with this
            2. Is is definitely arbitrary
            3. Parents are interchangeable
            4. Gay families are family units
            5. They don’t have a right to be raised by both parents.

            By returning after being banned, you have broken the rules of this forum. What a hypocrite.

          • LifeIsDesigned

            I tell you what, John Conner, if you think gpsdaddy was banned and that I am gpsdaddy reincarnate then I challenge you to turn me in. In fact I will help you do it.

          • John Connor

            It’s Connor

    • davidrev1911

      Your take on the 1 Cor. 5:9-13 passage is certainly sound in this very context! However, your wonderful, sentimental, touchy-feely rendition of this utterly bizarre hands-off Christianity – i.e., the cowardly unbiblical type of “live and let live” Christianity, so pervasive throughout God Bless America’s professing “Body” of believers – tragically makes an absolute mockery of the Great Commission in Matthew 28:18-20.

      I, just like you, understand that unsaved people sin regularly – or unregenerate sinner’s typically sin – as “sin-is-sin” before a Holy God in any form. But if you had to speak (read “confront” while evangelizing) with unrepentant, same-sex oriented people; whereby your/our sole responsibility is to present the “gospel” (Romans 1:16) of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah to an unsaved world – would you also convey to them that sentimental, touchy-feely message you stated above, or would you speak God’s uncompromising “truth” to them found in His Word?

      As you must well know, this is an (eternal) life-and-death situation with which our Heavenly Father has curiously entrusted to His children, in spite of the fact that “salvation is of the LORD,” as His Spirit does the work of “convicting of sin, righteousness, and the judgment to come.” (e.g., John 16:7-11) So this must strongly infer that there’s NO place for complacency, self-righteousness, judgmentalism, arrogance, fear-of-man etc. on the part of Yahweh’s own, when carrying-out our God-ordained responsibilities to a lost-and-dying world.

      God bless you & yours immensely dear sister…Shalom! (See 1 Cor. 3:11-15; 4:5; 2 Cor. 5:10-11)

      ☆ ☆ ☆

      “Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.” (1 Timothy 1:8-11/ESV)

      • Christine Wright

        I dont understand where you get that I’m being “touchy feely” or that I have an “utterly bizarre” take on Christianity… I get my take from the Bible. The Holy Spirit convicts mankind of sin. That not from my own mind it’s biblical. I don’t find it to be touchy feely to accept that not everyone will accept salvation, and that not everyone even wants to. If that is someone’s choice and even God respects people’s right to that choice who am I to put myself in God’s place and attempt to force it on them?

        What I see are a bunch of people on both sides trying to use government to force others to follow their own choices. Some Christians are doing it to unrepentant sinners and some unrepentant sinners are attempting to “win” so they can turn the tables and force their views on Christians..

        There is a third choice, it’s a choice approved by God even and spares the rest of us from having to live under the victors version of communism.. shocking concept really, but it’s called let’s not force our views on others and celebrate the freedom we were given, and offer the freedom we want for ourselves on others who made different choices.

        • davidrev1911

          Thank you Christine, but you avoided answering my question(s) in the 2nd paragraph? Was that intentional? And your idea of “forcing one’s views on others” – as in our job is to convey “God’s omniscient view,” not ours – also makes a mockery of the Great Commission.

          Yes, we don’t beat people over the head with our Bible’s; but on the other hand, if we’re withholding the “whole truth, and nothing but the truth” to a lost and dying world – what good are we? (See Matt. 5:13-16)

          • Christine Wright

            I didnt think it needed answering. When faced with sharing the Gospel of Christ with the lost, it is our testimony which we give. Our testimony is what has power over Satan, and what has an effect on people’s lives and hearts.

            I would share my own testimony. How I found a God with the power to help me overcome sin, not just one that told me what sins to avoid and left me hoping I could do good enough to squeak by, but never knowing if I actually had..

            I would share my full story, how lost I was, and what God rescued me from. I wpuld share how He changed my life, and what it’s been like to be saved, to feel confident about my place before God, and the beauty of His love. The beauty of a relationship with Him.

          • davidrev1911

            Christine: and please, no wavering, plus don’t put a “spin” on it this time either: could you tell any unrepentant, and totally defiant same-sex oriented individual, that their homosexuality and/or lesbianism is also SIN in the eyes of a Holy God – just like all the other sins they’ve committed throughout their “accountable” lives? The gospel directly, and specifically represents that highly-offensive “two-edge sword” (Heb. 4:12); meaning it contains the good news, and the bad news, i.e., diagnosis, and the ONLY available cure.

            You see, this is the point our brother Dr. Briggs seems to be getting-at in this article; since so much of God’s “professing” own have strangely began to freelance with His Word here in America, for perhaps decades now. (And the empirical evidence for this is now irrefutable.)

            In fact, it’s gotten to the point here in God Bless America, that the “PC” message of the world has long-since infiltrated, thus “leavened” the “pure milk of the Word” intended to “save our souls.” (e.g., 1 Cor. 5:6-7; Mark 8:14-21) Surely this makes sound biblical sense to you? God Bless ya & thanks for the interaction!

          • Christine Wright

            I got a response from you in email that I can’t now find. .. did it disappear in the age of censorship? Or am I looking in the wrong place?

          • davidrev1911

            For some reason it went to Spam…so I’ll try again.

            ▪ ▪ ▪

            Christine: please indulge me one final time on this topic, and no evasiveness in your answer this time, if you’d be so kind; and naturally this would rule out putting a “spin” on it as well. Having said that, could you tell any unrepentant, and totally defiant same-sex oriented individual, that their same-sex SINS are an egregious affront in the eyes of a Holy God – just like all the other sins they’ve committed throughout their “accountable” lives?

            I ask this, because the gospel directly and/or specifically represents that highly-offensive “two-edge sword” to WE arrogant, autonomous, “fallen” human beings. (Heb. 4:12); meaning it contains the good news, and the bad news, i.e., the profoundly offensive diagnosis, and the ONLY available cure.

            You see, this seems to be the point of which our brother Dr. Briggs is making in this article; since so much of God’s “professing” own had strangely began to freelance with His Word here in America, for perhaps decades now. Can you say rampant biblical illiteracy amongst His children on top of that? (And the empirical evidence for this is now irrefutable.)

            In fact, it’s gotten to the point here in God Bless America, that the “PC” message of the world has long-since infiltrated, thus “leavened” the “pure milk of the Word” intended to save our souls. (e.g., 1 Cor. 5:6-7; Mark 8:14-21) Surely this makes sound biblical sense to you? God Bless ya & thanks for the interaction!

          • Christine Wright

            Here is my point. I do believe homosexuality is a sin. But enumerating peoples sins prior to them being saved isn’t helpful, and we don’t do it to every one.

            Prior to my being saved no one sat with me and told me what all my sins were and that in order to be saved i had to stop them. First, that’s not how it works. We are saved first then God (the Holy Spirit) tells us what our sins are, and we work on them one by one through the power of the Holy Spirit.

            Now, for me my biggest problem was unbelief, (although that seems to be most people’s biggest problem.) It was less my feeling like an unrepentant sinner, and more I needed a LOT of help with what Christianity was and meant to me personally. I was curious about the role of Jesus, because my beliefs on the topic didn’t add up – if that makes sense. I needed to know what it meant to be the Messiah, what the role of Messiah was..

            I finally got it figured out with TONS of help from God but likely I digress so ill jump to the point, now, once I was saved all was good. The first thing the Holy Spirit asked OF me (after explaining some of the Bible first etc ) was for me to quit smoking.

            Great.. do you have ANY idea how difficult a thing trhat was to ask? Couldn’t have been harder and even saved I was scared I couldn’t do it. .. it took some time, I had to learn trust of God and how to lean on God’s power, finally quit smoking after 32 years..

            After that God worked on more things, we are working on patience now.. lol.. I suck at patience.. haha

            So heres my point. This is how God works with us. If someone had told me prior to being saved that God was going to ask me to give up the things most precious to me, the things I was most addicted to, im not sure I’d be a Christian today, because I would have no faith in myself to do those things.

            I don’t believe that telling people how horrible they are and all the many things they will have to give up is how we describe salvation to the lost.

          • davidrev1911

            Thank you so very much for the brutal transparency sister!

            And one last thing: the reason I was focusing upon one’s same-sex related sins with you, is because we American Christians have long-since abandoned the necessary resolve (or intestinal fortitude) on this very issue, for probably a decade now; meaning we’ve somehow lost the corporate/individual nerve to identify these same-sex sins, in the same manner God has…i.e., literally coming into agreement with what God says about these sins. That was the only reason.

            To be honest with you, I believe the sole issue driving our collective Christian cowardice, is the decades-old, state-sponsored indoctrination of untold millions of highly impressionable young minds throughout America’s public education venues today – into what’s called evolutionary naturalism, naturalism, scientific materialism etc…and the data seems to support this tragic correlation. It’s absolutely toxic, and antithetical to biblical Christianity.

            Lastly, having been radically saved from a pathetically and/or horribly reprobate lifestyle for almost 22-years now; and having been involved in loads of teaching & evangelism on the streets, inner-city homeless shelters, prison & jail ministry too – I thankfully can’t recall having EVER “enumerated peoples’ sins” during ANY encounter, since that’s NOT part of the Gospel of Jesus the Messiah! 🙂

            However, in a teaching session, in response to questions, I certainly have NO qualms about sharing the uncompromising Word of God, on this strangely contentious subject today amongst the brethren. Thank you dear sister & God Bless you so very much!

          • Christine Wright

            There is more to talk about. Because this topic isn’t about whether or not we believe homosexuality is a sin. The topic is one of politics, one group of conservative Christians is supportive of the homosexuals right to choose their own life and have “same sex unions” otherwise known as stage sponsored marriages if they so choose, and the other group of Christians believes the government should intervene and legally impose religious law over people who dont believe in that religion.

            The Bible doesn’t tell us to dictate to others how they should live. The new testament discusses how we deal with one another as a church, what our responsibility is to the unsaved, and how we are to conduct ourselves in the world. The laws we chose to live under are separate from the laws of the land.

            This isn’t being a weak Christian. I was a Muslim prior to being saved. The issue of homosexuals and how we respond to them was one I had to learn a lot about – within Christianity. The God I worship is different than the god of Islam. The god of Islam was weak and powerless and needed men to dictate to others. The God of Christiantiy is a much different God. We don’t kill in His Name. We don’t need to. Our God is not threatened by those who don’t follow Him.

            And most of all.. Christianity isn’t a state religion like Islam is and doesn’t dictate to others how to live. OUR God invites mankind toward Him, calls His own out of the world.

      • Shaquille Davis

        Screw you

        • Christine Wright

          I’m sorry but that’s inappropriate. You are free to disagree or have feelings about the discussion, but it’s being had from a religious standpoint.

          Just as much as people are free to be homosexual in this country, others have freedom of religious belief. If you don’t agree with Christianity, then don’t follow it.

          But it’s utterly ridiculous to act like this because others don’t believe God approves of sexually deviant behavior.

    • Jim Walker

      You have a very twisted mind.
      I’m a peodophile and I “love”young kids and God understand I can’t change my sinful ways and because he loved me and his grace and the blood of Jesus will wipe me clean to go heaven like the rest.
      That is how twisted you are.

      • Christine Wright

        There is a clear difference between the rape of innocent children and consensual adults having sex – even if those adults are consenting to deviant behaviour and no I will not engage you further.. and if you engage me I will flag you.

        • Jim Walker

          You are not a conservative. You cannot be a Christian and embrace LGBT lifestyles and promote it. Go on flag me.

          • Shaquille Davis

            Do the world a favor and kill yourself bigot

        • Andrew Mason

          Except Jim never said rape. What if the paedophilic relationship is consensual, something akin to the ancient Greek pederatic relationships which were considered socially beneficial for instance? Under a Biblical paradigm you can say that homosexuality is an abomination, that relations with children are wrong, but if we are not to judge those outside the church with Biblical standards then on what grounds do we judge any particular act?

          • Bernard L. Hofmann

            Like Roy Moore’s child molestation?

          • Andrew Mason

            Hmm something of a zombie post. If I recall the news articles correctly there was no child molestation, merely a significant disparity in ages that some folks didn’t like.

          • Bernard L. Hofmann

            Sexually touching a 14 year old against her will is child Molestation as Mr. Moore will soon lose a civil case about.

            Are you contributing to the Roy Moore defense fund? He says he desperately needs support.

      • Shaquille Davis

        False equivalence. Set yourself on fire fool.

    • Shaquille Davis

      Thank you for speaking sense.

    • gladys1071

      That is exactly my position as a Christian, i believe in concerning myself with my own sins and shortcomings not others.

  • John Willson

    There is no definition of “conservative” that includes acceptance or agreement with a false concept of marriage. You may like homosexual “marriage,” you may approve of homosexual marriage (or “marriage” between father and son, for that matter) but you may not claim therefore to be conservative in any way that makes any sense.

    • Christine Wright

      Just curious, but when did being a conservative mean the government became the church? That sounds more like the far left to me. Conservative means being fiscally conservative, believing in fighting against the spread of communism, (a fight we are losing) believing in traditional values (the constitution is one of those values), smaller government and more.. (I won’t enumerate everything as that would take too much time)

      I certainly never saw being a conservative as becoming a dictator in charge of other people’s bedrooms.

    • John Connor

      Says you. Are you the arbiter of all things conservative?

      • ArthurMcGowan

        What he wrote is the truth. His argument is not based on authority. Therefore asking “says who?” makes no sense.

        • Shaquille Davis

          Screw you

    • Shaquille Davis

      Up yours idiot

  • What the heck is a conservative any more? The conservative prime minister of Ireland supported changing the country to pro-abortion. The problem is that Libertarians have taken over the mindset of conservatives. There are very few real conservatives any more.

  • Dan

    Good so you’ll agree God doesn’t see a homosexual; he only sees a Christian. So I would ask the next time anyone says love the sinner hate the sin; turn around and say it to your wife your brother your sister your mother your father ; because it’s who we’re from that separates us from our creator not what we do.

  • Dan

    I agree homosexuality is an abomination and it sickens me. How we deal with it is the problem no one has a good answer for? I believe many are born this way as a direct condition from our separation from our creator. Our gene pool is corrupted in more ways than one. Disease and our mental health are 2 subjects that destroy lives. But what do we say to the child who doesn’t grow out of his /her love for the same gender? I wish I knew but I know teen suicides should never be happening because of our innocent ignorance on the subject.
    I believe things will only get worse before our Creator returns and when he does will ignorance be enough to save us all?

  • Robert Gardner Dunn

    Since I am not well versed in the old and new testaments will someone who is show me the passages that address homosexuality? Thanks.

    • Barefoot Soul

      Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men, nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
      1 Corinthians 6:9-10

      They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
      Romans 1:25-27

      Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
      Jude 7

    • ArthurMcGowan

      The Catholic Church understands the Sixth Commandment to mean the following:

      All deliberate seeking of venereal pleasure, except by a husband and wife in mutual acts which are apt for the generation of new life, is grave matter.

      That means that all sexual activity deliberately engaged in by any person(s) other than a husband and wife is a mortal sin.

    • Will

      You don’t need the Bible to tell you where you’re supposed to put your peter…ha! Get it? Peter…Bible?

  • Shaquille Davis

    You suck. Your backwards views are dying deal with it. Dumb bigot.

    • Ken

      That is not very ladylike.

      • Shaquille Davis

        I’m a male. Up yours bigot.

        • Will

          We’re given to understand that you’d like that, Shaq.

    • Will

      Your punctuation sucks.

  • ArthurMcGowan

    “It’s also become clear that these more supportive people are becoming less tolerant of contrary judgments. The prediction that in one or two decades speaking of reality will be classed as ‘hate speech’ becomes less outlandish each day.”

    Two or three decades?!?!?!?!?!?!? A student at katholyk Providence College was threatened with rape and murder by another student, after putting an explication of the true nature of marriage on a bulletin board–a bulletin board he oversaw as part of his job. The college refused to discipline the make of the threats, and has harassed and punished the victim. Fortunately, he has graduated–but he is barred from campus, despite his being an employee!

    • Shaquille Davis

      You are a damn fool.

  • Shaquille Davis

    Or and this is the much more likely/realistic idea the increase of LGBTQIA is because people in a safer more tolerant society are more likely to come out of the closet and identify as LGBTQIA. You poor ignorant, paranoid homoohobe.

    • Will

      Yo, Shaq, dig yourself, man.

  • Shaquille Davis

    The stats have to do with the fact that the farther back in time you go the more non-cis/hetero orientations are seen as bad and thus more likely to get a person beaten/killed. Hence the farther back you go there will be more people in the closet keeping their true sexuality and gender identification a secret to preserve their lives. The increade is because more people are feeling safe enough to come out. Your ignorance both sickens and enrages me. It really, really does.

  • Shaquille Davis

    Well you don’t have to worry because none of the stuff you say is even remotely based on reality.

  • Shaquille Davis

    Do the world a favor and eat a bullet already you useless old fart.

  • “Two in three Americans, in other words, have forgotten the reality that matrimony can only exist between men and women.”

    Maybe it’s that one in three Americans have forgotten that “marriage” is a word with a definition, and definitions can change. In my own lifetime, interracial marriage was made legal nationwide, divorce was radically redefined, and marital rape is now a thing. Before that, polygamy was made illegal. So let’s not pretend that God invented marriage back in Genesis, that it hasn’t changed since, or that we’re bound by what it was in the past.

  • Dan

    Great so because you saw the light and no longer desire the same sex ; everyone else should be able to do the same? I don’t believe Christ said anything about the subject but his apostles did.
    I would like hear the apostles speak on the subject today knowing what we know as fact.
    I agree with you on the pandoras box we face on accepting it. I don’t want it being taught to young children but I do believe they should have the same civil rights as I do.

  • Eli

    A lot of hateful comments by the “tolerance” crowd.

    • Will

      Yes, they don’t seem to comprehend the concept that the hypocrisy of
      churchmen does not undermine the doctrine that they teach. Sodomy is Sodomy.

      • Shaquille Davis

        Yes it does moron

        • Will

          No. It does not. Perversion is perversion. Doesn’t matter if the guy saying it wears a funny hat. Look it up, genius.

        • Will

          No, it doesn’t, idiot.

    • Shaquille Davis

      Paradox of tolerance. Look it up idiot

      • Eli

        HAHA! I am quite aware of that paradox. I guess that makes it okay for you to wish death on your enemies because you are simply in-tolerating their intolerance. You get to be as hateful and ignorant as possible because you are fighting the good fight of “tolerance” in the face of supposed bullies and people who stand up to you.

  • TheSaint4JC

    Why?

    I’m learning that even this website censors your speech… mention certain people associated to them and you’ll be censored or blocked.

  • Robert Gardner Dunn

    Mr. McGowan You said the Catholic church’s position regarding the Sixth Commandment is that all non marital sex is a mortal sin. Don’t know if it’s correct, but if so there are a good number of Popes now roasting on Satin’s spit, as well as innumerable Bishops, Cardinals and Priests. Guess they can keep the Gays company.

  • Dan

    I don’t understand you comment? Why would I tell you to move anywhere?

  • Dan

    Sorry, I made that comment before reading your post with Russia in it. I see it isn’t on this page as well but it did explain your comment.
    You may get your wish because I believe we are in the end of days so killing homosexuals may happen. I am glad you have decided long ago to leave that lifestyle. I met a Christian friend years ago and in time he told me he was a hermaphrodite and from that point on my thoughts on homosexuality bi sexality have changed but I am conflicted because I do not want this lifestyle to be accepted as normal because it’s not. On the other hand my friends story has made this issue too complex for a simple answer. I still don’t have one.

  • Bernard L. Hofmann

    I concur. Conservatives who were once bigoted against our gay neighbors are either evolving or are dying off. The later are being replaced by young evangelicals who are tolerant of their gay neighbors.

  • Shaquille Davis

    You suck

Inspiration
The Promise of Deliverance
James Randall Robison
More from The Stream
Connect with Us