What fueled the rise of Donald Trump in American politics? The non-profit Intelligence Squared recently hosted a debate on the topic between four influential right-of-center pundits.

Arguing that Trump has simply appealed to the worst instincts of many voters were Wall Street Journal editorial board member Bret Stephens and Washington Post blogger Jennifer Rubin. On the other side there was The Washington Examiner’s Timothy Carney and The Federalist’s Ben Domenech. They argued Washington elites had failed the American people through corruption and cronyism, leading millions to reject politics as usual and turn to Trump.

Here’s the debate. The debate starts at 8:10, after host and moderator John Donvan introduces the panelists, and speaks with Intellectual Squared Chairman Robert Rosenkranz about why the topic was chosen.