ABC News: Christians Who Defend Religious Liberty are ‘Hate Group’

In this Nov. 23, 2015, file photo, Caleb Dalton, an attorney for Alliance Defending Freedom, argues before justices in the New York Supreme Court Appellate Division Third Department in Albany, N.Y.

By Todd Starnes Published on July 15, 2017

Alliance Defending Freedom is demanding a retraction and apology from ABC News after reporters smeared one of the nation’s most respected religious liberty law firms as a “hate group.”

ABC News reporters Pete Madden and Erin Galloway wrote a scathing report on a speech Attorney General Jeff Sessions delivered behind closed doors at the Summit on Religious Liberty at the Ritz-Carlton in Dana Point, Calif.

“Jeff Sessions addresses ‘anti-LGBT hate group,’ but DOJ won’t release his remarks,” read the headline.

“Attorney General Jeff Sessions delivered a speech to an alleged hate group at an event closed to reporters on Tuesday night, but the Department of Justice is refusing to reveal what he said,” read the lead paragraph of the Madden-Galloway hit piece.

By the way — The Federalist obtained an exclusive copy of Sessions’ speech. Click here to read it.

ABC News based its decision to brand ADF as a hate group on the highly-partisan Southern Poverty Law Center.

Southern Poverty Law Center accuses ADF of “supporting the recriminalization of homosexuality abroad, ending same-sex marriage and generally making life as difficult as possible for LGBT communities in the U.S.”

They’ve also labeled the Family Research Council and the American Family Association — both highly respected religious organizations — as hate groups.

Let’s just cut to the chase here, folks. Southern Poverty Law Center is a far-left partisan goon squad that labels any ideology they oppose as hate.

“ABC News has committed journalistic malpractice,” ADF spokesperson Kerri Kupec said. “For ABC News to essentially cut and paste false charges against Alliance Defending Freedom by a radically left-wing, violence-inciting organization like Southern Poverty Law Center is a discredit to ABC News and to the profession.”

For the record, Alliance Defending Freedom has a stellar record of defending religious liberty before the Supreme Court — seven victories at the high court in the last seven years. Their most recent Supreme Court win came just a few weeks ago — Trinity Lutheran v. Comer.

They also represent Christian baker Jack Phillips and Christian florist Barronelle Stutzman — both under attack by LGBT activists for putting their religious beliefs ahead of political correctness.

“Southern Poverty Law center spends its time and money attacking veterans, nuns, Muslims who oppose terrorism, Catholics, Evangelicals, and anyone else who dares disagree with its far-left ideology,” Kupec said.

On the other hand, ADF “works every day to preserve and affirm free speech and the free exercise of religion for people from all walks of life and all backgrounds because we believe freedom is for everyone.”

For ABC News to label such a respected and revered law firm as a hate group is not just shameful — it’s an outright lie.

Reporters Madden and Galloway should be ashamed of this disgusting piece of propaganda.

“Americans’ trust in media is cratering, and the blatant bias and lack of professionalism that ABC attempted to pass off as news can only serve to confirm and intensify that distrust,” Kupec said.

Based on Alliance Defending Freedom’s court room prowess, ABC News would be wise to immediately retract the story and apologize.

 

 

Todd Starnes is host of Fox News & Commentary, heard on hundreds of radio stations. His latest book is The Deplorables’ Guide to Making America Great Again. Follow Todd on Twitter @ToddStarnes and find him on Facebook.

Originally published on ToddStarnes.com. Reprinted with permission.

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  • glenbo

    How is insisting an entire demographic group of people, (gays) should not receive the same rights as non-gays when there is no rational reason they shouldn’t, not hateful?

    How is insisting an entire demographic group of people, (gays) are all pedophiles when in fact they aren’t, not hateful?

    How is insisting an entire demographic group of people, (gays) are all diseased when in fact they aren’t, not hateful?

    How is insisting an entire demographic group of people, (gays) all want to take away your religious freedom when in fact they don’t, not hateful?

    How is insisting an entire demographic group of people, (gays) are incapable of raising healthy children when in fact they are, not hateful?

    How is insisting an entire demographic group of people, (gays) are harmful to society when in fact they aren’t, not hateful?

    How is insisting an entire demographic group of people, (gays) are immoral sinners not hateful?

    How is insisting an entire demographic group of people, (gays) should be allowed to be fired and/or evicted based only upon who they love not hateful?

    How is insisting an entire demographic group of people, (gays) has a higher rate of domestic violence when they don’t, not hateful?

    How is insisting an entire demographic group of people, (gays) are harmful to children when in fact they aren’t, not hateful?

    If you don’t want to be labeled as hateful, don’t do hateful things.
    How simple is that?

    • Ryan

      Who, is doing all this insisting?

      • glenbo

        >>”Who, is doing all this insisting?”<<
        The ADF, Family Research Council, American Family Association, Focus on the Family, National Organization for Marriage, and the most vile hate group–Americans for Truth about Homosexuality.
        That's just for starters.
        There are "Pro-Family" (anti-LGBT) organizations in just about every state propagating the same animus.

        • Ryan

          IF, the LGBT crowd were pro-family there wouldn’t be a problem, would there.

          • glenbo

            >>”IF, the LGBT crowd were pro-family there wouldn’t be a problem”<<

            Please define "pro-family."

          • Jeremy L

            The religious crowd is pretty anti-family in their tendency to reject and abandon their LGBT children and/or influence others into doing so.

          • Ryan

            The anti-family crowd are those who can’t reproduce between themselves so they have to fake it with someone else’s children. Two men can never be a mother and father just as two women can never be a mother and father. If they can’t be a father and mother, they can’t be a true family.

          • Jeremy L

            Nothing destroys family faster than religion. The religious are the anti-family ones. Your idea of what constitutes a “true family” is pitifully narrow. How sad.

          • Jeremy L

            And by the way, any idiot can have sex and be a mother or father. It takes courage and love to be s good parent, and the religious lack both those qualities.

          • Ryan

            If you aren’t religious, how would you know if they are bad parents?
            True, any idiot can have sex and become a mother or father, but idiots don’t commit to raise a family. How many ss births have there been between two committed ss couples? Very few ss couples have ever truly committed to each other, very, very, few. None of them have ever had a child between themselves. Fact.

          • Jeremy L

            “how would you know if they are bad parents” teaching prejudice and willful ignorance out of vanity and irrational fear of death = bad parenting

            “Very few ss couples have ever truly committed to each other, very, very few.” Blind prejudice.

            “None of them have ever had a child between themselves.” So. What? Reproducing is not a requirement for having a family. People who adopt inadequate parents as well? Families do not even require having children. Last I checked, a couple by themselves is a family. Or do you want to tell a nice infertile heterosexual couple that they “have no family” or that their family “isn’t real”?

          • Ryan

            I know people who have never had children. Being infertile, having had motor vehicle accidents that left one unable to have children, some were diagnosed with bipolar and other things that could be passed on to children helped them to make a decision to not have children.
            Children, have an ability to detect something that doesn’t feel right about some people. My son had an incident where he recognized a difference of a person he knew that later showed him to be right about some tendencies the person had. He ended the relationship with that boy. The boy wound up in prison and his father whom I knew as a friend mentioned his brother was homosexual and that he had found out about it when he caught him with his son.
            “Irrational fear of death.” I never taught my kids to fear death. My wife was a fearful person when we married nearly 50 years ago. My wife is not afraid any more, it took a few years to show her she didn’t need to fear life or death, she knows her creator. Even her mother lost her fear of death when she met the Lord. She died a couple months later but didn’t have any fear of it. When she was asked if she wanted to live on the machine she was hooked up to, she replied that she wanted to go home and live out her days before she went to be with her Lord. She only lasted 24 hours.
            I am a war veteran, you want to talk about fear and death? go ahead, I am experienced with that subject. I will listen to your fears and try to help if I can.
            The word family covers a lot of area, the whole human race has been described as family. The whole human race got here by two people, they were not same sex.

          • Jeremy L

            You’ve obviously lived more life than I have. And thank you for your service. As for the couples who never had children for tragedies or concerns about passing on diseases, I hope you can agree that their marriages are valid and they are a family even while childless. The incident with the boy going to jail is tragic. But the fact that the boy was gay and fooling around with his uncle doesn’t seem to be relevant to his criminality. I would think the uncle would go to jail for molesting the boy, unless the boy was 18+ and was jailed for reasons unrelated to fooling around with his uncle. A lot of straight people fool around with family members and go to jail as well, at any rate.

            Perhaps religious people don’t fear death, but they don’t fear death because they blindly buy into the concept of an afterlife. Being obsessed with “getting into heaven” can sure cause people to do some crazy things, however. They always need a scapegoat to ensure themselves they will live forever and someone else will not. Hence burning “witches”, hence gay bashing.

            I am sorry about the loss of your wife’s mother.

            I am aware of how reproduction works. The whole human race may indeed be called a family. And it is a family that has people not reproducing in it, such as gays and others. Reproduction is necessary for our existence, but not necessary for family. If someone hates the children they produce and hates the person with whom they produced that child, then that’s no family. Family requires more than reproducing and does not necessarily require it.

          • Ryan

            There is a difference between people of religion and people who have an experience with the living Christ. It is the experience with Christ that takes away the fear of death, the afterlife is simply another benefit.
            Religion, is not Christianity. I agree that religionists do some crazy things, they have other priorities than having Christ as their goal. Witch burning is something Christ would not do, nor would those who truly believe in Him do such things. They know that they have power over such things through Christ and through Christ have no fear of witches.
            Gay bashing? all of what I have seen has not been done by Christians. At Camp Pendleton in the late 60’s I saw a gay grope a Marine friend of mine, who just re-enlisted, while he was still asleep in his bunk, my friend defended himself and wound up in the brig for two years. Would you call that gay bashing? Who was punished for what? Many good military men in California had their careers destroyed by gays, do you think that is a good thing?
            My friends son had been abused by his uncle for several years and when my friends son made unwanted advances on another kid and was rejected, he knifed the other kid wounding him seriously. My friends son was put in prison and his brother was also put in prison. The kid who was knifed lived but has a strong aversion to gays, hmm, I wonder why.
            You can read all the one sided stories about how gays are abused that you want, but until you read the other side of the story, you will never know the truth. There is a reason less than 3% of the population is gay and if the laws weren’t made for them to become a force against straights, they probably would still be in the closet. The media and Hollywood are also advocates for that 3%, but they are all about fake news and fake lifestyles, go figure.

          • Jeremy L

            Yes, the man doing the groping should have been punished.

            A girl could easily knife a guy because the guy rejected her advances also. Would the guy stabbed have reason to begin hating girls if a girl who liked him stabbed him? I don’t see how the sexual orientation of the person committing violence because someone didn’t return their feelings is relevant at all.

            You think that no one is abused for simply being gay? That there’s always another side to it? People get abused simply for being gay all the time.

          • Ryan

            People get abused for being Christian all the time. More so as time moves closer to the end.
            The people who bash Christians today do so out of ignorance, they are told lots of unfounded stories of the Bible and consider themselves, “experts,” in Bible knowledge. IF, they were experts, they would not be in such a hurry to take out of context what it is they purport to know.
            The guy stabbed wasn’t stabbed by a girl, he was stabbed by a gay guy, he didn’t have a problem with girls or guys, just gays because that was the s o of the guy who stabbed him. Do you think he should have thought highly of gays for one stabbing him?
            The gay doing the groping was booted out of the Corps, but because of California law, the gay was protected and the straight wasn’t. The straight guy spent two years in the brig because of the gay. It ruined his career, do you think that was right?

          • Jeremy L

            I feel less sympathy for Christians because the criticisms against them are often merited. They bring it upon themselves. Also, being Christian, unlike being attracted to the same sex, is entirely a choice. To be criticized for your chosen ideology is one thing, to be criticized for something deeply rooted inside of you is another thing entirely. A lot of atheists/Christianity critics do consider Biblical context, although many don’t. Christians are known to both eschew and cling to context as well.

            The fact that a gay guy stabbed him does not mean all gay guys go around stabbing people. As I said before, a crazy girl who liked him but who got rejected could have stabbed him and it would have been the exact same situation. Should I think all black people will stab me if a black person stabs me? Should I think all women will stab me if a woman stabs me? Should I think all CHRISTIANS will stab me if one stabs me because he got angry that I was challenging his religion?

            No. No, that isn’t right. Though gays are often a persecuted minority, they should be held accountable for when they do wrong. And when wrong is done to them, they should be protected.

          • Ryan

            You reveal yourself to be very afraid. You speak thoughts of fear and insecurity. That is because you aren’t secure in your lifestyle. In my time I have seen much violence in the gay lifestyle. Law enforcement I know have told me of more violence among the gays than they see per capita among straights. That always confirmed what I personally saw. People who owned rentals said they had to keep raising their rent to cover the damage from renting to gays. You people can play the victim card all you want, most of your problems are self inflicted.
            I don’t worry about people challenging my Christianity, I can defend myself from people who quickly prove to me they don’t know what they are talking about. You people get all your information from the same site and you all have the same talking points that are easily seen to be nothing but fact less gibberish.
            There are prophecies I the Bible that tell us about the times we are living in today. It is as though some of the headlines are being taken from the Bible. The buildup of military power in the middle east is totally covered. Those who like to mock the Bible might not be so interested in doing so if they knew what it was that we all are going to face in the very near future. No one is going to be left out of what is coming. Not you, not me. No one. You would be smart to actually check what is going on without referring to leftist sites, all you would gain is more confusion in them. But it is your life, your choice, not mine. Choose wisely.

          • Jeremy L

            I’m not gay. And being gay is not a lifestyle. It is an attribute. Threatening me with hell isn’t doing anything. Insisting you’re somehow the victim isn’t doing anything either. I’m not afraid of anything. I simply believe in what is right.

          • Ryan

            The victim mentality is not from the right, it is from the left. I did not portray myself as a victim. Nor did I threaten anyone with hell, that isn’t in my hand to do. It is a choice freely made by everyone on this planet.
            If being gay is an attribute, from what I have seen, it is one full of hate and bigotry and intolerance to anyone who doesn’t kiss up to them.
            No thank you, we on the right have been more than forgiving of those who walk that path only to see them take advantage of every effort that gives them more power over other peoples lives than they or anyone else needs. They like to play the equality card but do so only on the surface, very deceitful.
            Your version of, “right,” is based on the left way of thinking. I am in my 70’s and have seen far more of socialism than you. It is a poor representation of government over people, there is nothing equal in it, nothing. But who am I to tell you and others who have been brain washed to believe it is the best? All I have is experience, you have the word of corrupt politicians handing out freebies for your vote and promises that alternate lifestyles are in the bag with them.
            The Muslim allies of the left will take care of the s s people very quickly if they defeat the righties, so the reality of the safety of s s people with the left is only good till the left wins, if it does. The s s people, if they would take a real good honest look at things, will find they are only political pawns of those on the left. History repeats itself only because people don’t learn from the past, and now the truth of the past is being reconstructed to please the left. That is why it will be repeated.
            All the left will give you is alternate truth, you need to seek the truth, if you do in honesty, you will find it. But it won’t be on the left.

          • Jeremy L

            I hate Muslims too and agree that the far left is stupid to cuddle up to them. Being a minority doesn’t give them license to do evil against gays and others. So we at least have something in common.

          • Ryan

            In 1980, a man whose name is David Wilkerson had a twofold vision. The Lord told him there would be a fire in America that would change the course of history. There was a fire in NY City on 9-11-2001, it changed the course of history not only here in America, but around the world. The second part was; the United States would be destroyed by the homosexual agenda. Think about that, 1980, to today.
            David Wilkerson died in 2012, the second part of his vision, didn’t. But, the s s agenda is very close to being fulfilled.

          • Jeremy L

            Really? No wonder I see trees falling, cars crashing, and houses spontaneously bursting into flame on every American street as soon as a same-sex couple walks out of the court house with a marriage certificate. Here I was thinking it was a coincidence.

          • Ryan

            What you say you are seeing could be a precursor of what is to come. Of course, you would be able to ignore it as you know such thing will only be a figment of your imagination. Right?

          • Shaquille Harvey

            Are you fine then with a poly (polygamy) family then ?

          • glenbo

            >>”Are you fine then with a poly (polygamy) family then ?”<<
            No sir, I am not. Polygamous arrangements are harmful to the (typically) multiple women involved and especially harmful to children involved. This is why they are and will always be illegal despite the LDS Church's attempt to engage in them. Monogamous gay marriage doesn't harm either spouse or children involved.
            This is an irrelevant distraction and a non-argument in regards to a monogamous gay couple seeking to marry.
            But how interesting you mentioned polygamy. It is approved by the bible.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            “No sir, I am not. Polygamous arrangements are harmful to the (typically) multiple women involved and especially harmful to children involved. This is why they are and will always be illegal despite the LDS Church’s attempt to engage in them. Monogamous gay marriage doesn’t harm either spouse or children involved.”
            1. Do you have evidence for any of this or is this an assertion!?
            2. How do you know this for polygamous spouses,especially if they consensual?
            3. Please note i first used the poly, prior to write polygamy, to refer to poly style relationships. My question are you fine when said they are consensual with it ?

            “This is an irrelevant distraction and a non-argument in regards to a monogamous gay couple seeking to marry.”
            Fine are also fine with consensual incestrous relationships?

            “But how interesting you mentioned polygamy. It is approved by the bible.”
            How and when ?

          • glenbo

            1) Search Warren Jeffs.

            2 & 3) What consenting
            adults do in their bedrooms is none of my business. My point is that just because same-sex marriage is legal, that doesn’t mean polygamy must become
            legal.

            There are valid reasons as to why polygamy shouldn’t be legal, otherwise it would be. There are no valid
            reasons why gay marriage shouldn’t be legal.

            Incestuous relationships will never be legal for obvious reasons and do not in any way compare to gay
            marriage. To use polygamy and incest as reasons why gays shouldn’t marry is ludicrous and irrelevant.

            There are 15 references in the bible on polygamy.

          • Shaquille Harvey

            1. I have looked and know the situation on warren jeffs. However I must note that he is one bad example, and how can you base all of polygamy or other poly style relationships on this ? Especially if one was to do the exact same with gay marriage it would treated wrongly and said it was “bigotry ” but yet you base all polygamy and poly relationships on this !?
            Also warren Jeffs raped others including minors, how when taking into consideration my statement of consensual relationships with polygamy can this be a mood point?
            2. and 3.) why ? Especially when one of the arguments for gay marriage was this ” What consenting adults do in their bedrooms is none of my business”

            “There are valid reasons as to why polygamy shouldn’t be legal, otherwise it would be. ”
            How is there “There are valid reasons as to why polygamy shouldn’t be legal,” ?
            What are the valid reasons?
            What about the poly styled relationships as well ? What about those who are in a gay poly relationship and marriage?

            “There are no valid
            reasons why gay marriage shouldn’t be legal.”
            Again how and why ? How is this the case ?

            “Incestuous relationships will never be legal for obvious reasons and do not in any way compare to gay
            marriage. ”

            1. Why won’t incestrous relationships be legal ? What are the obvious reasons?
            2. What about gay incest
            3. That’s fine saying incestrous won’t compare to gay marriage but gay marriage won’t compare to traditional or straight marriage.

            “To use polygamy and incest as reasons why gays shouldn’t marry is ludicrous and irrelevant.”

            I am not I am asking since your fine with gay marriage are you fine with incest and poly styled or polygamous marriages as well and if not why ? Also irrelevant?

            As of polygamy in the bible;
            http://www(dot)tektonics(dot)org/lp/polygamy(dot)php

            (Please remove dot with real and brackets as well. )

          • glenbo

            >>” how can you base all of polygamy or other poly
            style relationships on this?”<>” Especially if one was to do the exact same with
            gay marriage it would treated wrongly and said it was “bigotry”<>”but yet you base all polygamy and poly
            relationships on this !?”<
            >”Especially when one of the arguments for gay
            marriage was this “What consenting adults do in their bedrooms is none of my business””<>” What about the poly styled relationships as well?
            What about those who are in a gay poly relationship and marriage?“<>””There are no valid reasons why gay marriage
            shouldn’t be legal.”

            Again how and why? How is this the case?”<>” gay marriage won’t compare to traditional or
            straight marriage.”<>”are you fine with incest and poly styled or
            polygamous marriages as well and if not why?”<<

            No. Neither. Both are potentially harmful/and or abusive.

            And as for the bible, I have no reason to believe it is in
            any way true.

          • Jeremy L

            Shaq….King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines….and was celebrated.

          • Ryan

            “Family,” describes a mother and a father who have had children together. A mother describes a woman who can never be a father, and a father is a man who can never be a mother. It is a pretty simple biological fact. It is those, “facts,” that always get in trouble with those who want to, “play house,” with nature.

          • glenbo

            >>””Family,” describes a mother and a father who have had children together”<<
            So children being raised in any other non-"family" households don't matter to you? That's selfishly sad.

          • Ryan

            How do you get, “family,” out of, “non-family?” True selfishness is in making children believe that a man, is a, “mom.” That robs children of the truth.

          • glenbo

            >>”True selfishness is in making children believe that a man, is a, “mom.”<<
            You lack of caring about children in households you don't approve of is sad.

          • Ryan

            I care because those kids are not in a true home where there is a true mother and father. Lying to children about a man being a mother or a woman being a father is one of the truest forms of child abuse. Those who practice lying to children about ss marriage are nothing less than abusers of children. You can cover the earth with laws in favor of ss marriage or coupling, but it will never be the truth.

          • glenbo

            >>”IF, the LGBT crowd were pro-family”<<
            How is a gay couple raising children not "pro-family?"
            Are you saying that children in a gay household don't count?
            It is frightening how readily you discount the lives of tens of thousands of children currently being raised in same-sex headed household while pretending to care about the well-being of children.

    • Kevin Quillen

      project much?

      • glenbo

        >>”project much?”<<
        Exactly what are you suggesting I am "projecting?"

    • im4truth4all

      “Take away the supernatural and what remains is the unnatural.” – G.K. Chesterton

      • glenbo

        >>”Take away the supernatural and what remains is the unnatural.” <<
        Nonsense.

      • Rationalist1

        So non believers are unnatural?

  • J. Boanerges

    SPLC is a Jewish hate group.

  • Ryan

    The left is a demographic in this country that believes everyone who doesn’t agree with them, is wrong and hateful.

  • Jeremy L

    “Southern Poverty Law Center accuses ADF of ‘supporting the recriminalization of homosexuality abroad, ending same-sex marriage and generally making life as difficult as possible for LGBT communities in the U.S.'””

    Is that not want they want to do?

    “They also represent Christian baker Jack Phillips and Christian florist Barronelle Stutzman — both under attack by LGBT activists for putting their religious beliefs ahead of political correctness.”

    It’s not “political correctness”, it’s being decent to people. “But it’s my religion” is no excuse to treat others like dirt.

    “ADF ‘works every day to preserve and affirm free speech and the free exercise of religion for people from all walks of life and all backgrounds because we believe freedom is for everyone.'”

    Would they defend gays/others who want the “freedom” to discriminate against Christians because they don’t agree with Christianity? I doubt it!

    • glenbo

      >>”Is that not want they want to do?”<>””But it’s my religion” is no excuse to treat others like dirt.”<>”Would they defend gays/others who want the “freedom” to discriminate against Christians because they don’t agree with Christianity? I doubt it!”<<
      "Freedom" ends when one disagrees with another's principles. In other words, If I as an atheist insist that I can reject Christians for whatever reasons, my so-called "freedom" will rejected and called out as discrimination.

      • tether

        Let’s stick to the facts. This is not about refusing services because someone is gay. If a gay person comes into a flower shop or bakers shop and asks for flowers or a cake for a birthday, graduation, etc. most would happily accommodate that because it is not about the person it is about the event. However when you ask them to violate their beliefs by providing services for something they feel is wrong that has nothing to do with the gay person but about the ceremony and celebration of something they believe is a sin.

        • glenbo

          >>”This is not about refusing services because someone is gay.”<<
          Yes it is. It is precisely about homosexuality and nothing more.
          It is bigotry by definition of the word.
          Jack and Jill get a wedding cake, but Jack and Bill do NOT.
          Why? because they are one of THOSE people.
          Nice try at making phony excuses.
          Fail.

          • tether

            It’s about a gay wedding not a gay person. They will do business with gay people as long as it is not for an event that violates their beliefs.

          • glenbo

            >>”They will do business with gay people as long as it is not for an event that violates their beliefs.”<<
            Why does a gay wedding violate their beliefs?

          • tether

            Because it is against God’s design for marriage

          • glenbo

            >>”Because it is against God’s design for marriage”<<
            Does divorce also go against "God's plan for marriage?"

          • tether

            Absolutely and I would not make a cake for a wedding for a non biblical divorce.

          • glenbo

            >>”I would not make a cake for a wedding for a non biblical divorce.”<<
            Why do wedding caterers ignore this and do so anyway, but draw the line for gays?
            If catering to a gay wedding is "participating" in a sinful ceremony, isn't catering to an adulterous wedding participating in a celebration of sinful adultery in violation of the 7th commandment?
            Why is it okay to participate in an adulterous wedding?

          • tether

            I can’t answer that question because I do not know their reasons. Only they can answer that one. I can only tell you where I stand on the issues. I would not knowingly support a non biblical wedding. Because while I may love the participants I love God more.
            Unfortunately many self proclaimed Christians don’t even realize they are using double standards. We don’t get to pick and choose. God didn’t call us to repent and obey the commandments that are convenient. He called on all mankind to repent and obey. That is why He gave us 10 Commandments not 10 suggestions.

          • glenbo

            >>”We don’t get to pick and choose.”<<
            Jack Philips of masterpiece Cakes agreed to make a cake for a couple that he knew were each previously divorced.
            Yet he refuses a gay couple.
            Is this not biblical morality cherry picking?

          • tether

            I don’t know if it is or not. Only Jack Philips and God can answer that for sure.
            I could speculate but I don’t have enough of the facts to even do that.
            What were the reasons for the divorces of the bride and groom?
            Were their spouses Christians? If not the Bible says that a Christian is not bound by a marriage to a non-believer if the non-believer chooses to divorce them.
            I also believe it depends on their status at the time of the divorce. If one is married, gets a divorce then gets saved, or is born again then all things old are taken away. They are a new creature.
            On the other hand not all who claim to be Christians understand what it means to be a Christian. And others are new to the walk and still have much to learn.
            Again I can’t speak to or for Jack Philips because I don’t know.

          • glenbo

            >>”I don’t know if it is or not.”<<
            It never fails to amuse me how easy it is for so-called phony "Christians" to justify their bigotry with disingenuous false so-called "religious beliefs."

          • tether

            Don’t call me disingenuous, and don’t call my beliefs false. You know nothing of me or what I do or don’t believe. You don’t know what my experiences are or the evidence I have seen to justify my beliefs. I have seen Gods hand at work thru healings of those given a death sentence by their doctors. 4th stage cancer cured in two individuals that I know. A torn rotator cuff healed the same day it was torn, and Dr. Verified. I met with a Surgeon who walked out of a scheduled surgery where he was to remove cancer from a persons mouth, because the cancer he saw just the week before was gone as a result of prayer. That’s our God, the loving merciful but righteous God who is still moving and working miracles at will. We just fail to walk in the God given authority we were given. And too many today want to make up their own rules, walking in disobedience to God then wondering why our prayers are not answered. Disobedience separates us from God and His blessings. God has delivered me from the hands of the enemy more times than I care to count. He is faithful. Near fatal misses that were diverted by the Hand of God. When I lost my job He was faithful and provided for all our needs. Then just when unemployment was about to run out He directed my steps to a company that was not advertising for help nor were they looking to hire anyone. But within a few minutes of walking in the door their plans were changing. Soon I had a management position with a company that did not even have an opening.

          • glenbo

            >>>” Don’t call me disingenuous, and don’t call my
            beliefs false.”<<

            They are exactly those things as you pick and choose which parts of the bible to enforce and ignore, and hypocritically make allowances for those who willingly “participate in sin” while you simultaneously advocate
            against doing so.

            You claim healing miracles are the work of God, but when 20,000 children die every day you shrug your shoulders.

            Children die of cancer every day and all you can do is thank God for giving YOU special attention while he lets thousands die and thousands be born with debilitating diseases and birth defects.

            When a tsunami drowns almost a quarter of a million people in a single day you make some excuse that is irrational to avoid feeling uncomfortable about worshipping a God who allows such atrocities.

            Then you use your imaginary God to harm the lives of LGBT people and you cannot provide a logical reason as to why.

            You expend time and energy fixating on what consenting
            adults do with their genitals when there are actual real problems in this messed up world.

            Disingenuous is an understatement.

            Perhaps hypocritical, selfish and creepy better describes your faith.

          • tether

            Though they could see they were blind, though they had ears they could not hear.
            Keep on criticizing me and persecuting I count it all as blessings.
            I don’t make allowances for or excuse my sins or those of others. It is not even my place to do so.
            However regardless of all your false accusations I understand you make them out of lack of knowledge. I forgive you. May God open your eyes and draw you near so that you can learn the truth. Have a good life.

    • Rationalist1

      If they do support those measures it is a hate group. They are free not to engage in homosexual acts or marry a same sex partner, but they have no right imposing that restriction on others. It’s like Catholics who forbid their members to divorce and remarry. That’s their choice but they don’t (except recently in Ireland and Malta) seek to impose it on society as a whole.

      • Jeremy L

        Exactly. No one is being forced to engage in homosexual acts or marry a same sex partner. ADF wishes to impose anti-gay measures on society at large without a care in the world as to how this will harm people. They have yet to effectively argue how SSM is harming society and thus should be ended. It’s actually reducing the amount of promiscuity in the world. You know, that thing “pro-family” people are supposed to be against as well? They also have yet to demonstrate how a consensual sex act with an adult should be a crime. They do not operate on any sort of logic, but rather senseless animus.

        • Rationalist1

          I occasionally get people who object to gay marriage say that it will destroy heterosexual marriage. I ask them it how has it has detrimentally affected their marriage as the fact of gay marriage has not made any difference in mine.

          • Jeremy L

            What gets me is that if they really do believe it’s “fake marriage”, why would they think it would have any power to harm “real” heterosexual marriage? Is a child dressing up as a doctor undermining the authority of a real doctor to them as well? They also cannot point to its alleged negative consequences. I find they’ll say it “encourages people to be gay”, although it is not possible to “encourage” someone to find the same sex attractive, clearly. And “encouraging people to be gay” means encouraging some kind of culture of promiscuity, in their eyes. They equate heterosexuality with monogamy and homosexuality with promiscuity because they are simply prejudiced. The opposition to gay marriage is motivated by nothing but spite. You see people who pump out the content here putting “marriage” in scare quotes when referring to gay marriage or even make up some new name for it. How petty. I think it really shows that these people aren’t secure in their own marriages to have to call a gay person’s marriage “fake”.

          • tether

            The opposition to gay marriage is not spite. It is the idea that some have taken a covenant that we believe God established in the beginning with Adam and Eve, and have changed the definition to accommodate what it was never intended to accommodate. Marriage as defined by God is between one man and one woman. Are there examples in the Bible of men who violated that? Absolutely, the Bible is filled with examples of men falling short of God’s will for us. That does not make it right.
            Why do some try to force the rest of us to accept their views? It is one thing to ask for tolerance, it is another to try to force acceptance and even coerce others to bend to your will. Why would anyone want a florist or a baker to provide services for their ceremony, knowing that their heart is not in it? Wouldn’t you rather hire and give your hard earned money to someone who will share in the joy of your celebration rather than coerce someone to provide a service for an event they believe is wrong and for some it violates their beliefs completely? The Bible says if you think it is a sin then it is a sin for you. So if I think providing services for an event that I believe is a sin makes me part of the sin then it does just that. Then you are forcing me to choose between God and you. Guess who is going to win every time? It’s not like there are no other options for the services. As for those that have been crushed by the biased courts and forced out of business all you have done is made heroes out of them in the eyes of Bible believing Christians.

          • Jeremy L

            It’s unfortunate they are seen as heroes, since that only fuels the insane victim complex. The refusal is certainly out of spite. No heterosexual who has violated “one man, one woman” with divorce will ever be denied a wedding cake by a Christian. It could be their 50th marriage in 2 months and a Christian would gladly bake the cake because said Christian was never taught to hate divorcees. And before you say divorce would be unknown to the baker, if the baker really cared about not participating in sin, he would ask the couple’s sexual history. But he’s not going to do that because he’d lose too much business for being too judgmental to the majority of his customers. In short, the bakers don’t care about “sin”, they just hate gays. Even if they aren’t conscious of their hypocrisy and hatred, it’s still there.

          • tether

            Jeremy, do you really presume to know their intensions? Are you so arrogant that you think you know other peoples thoughts and motives?
            I am a Christian and I don’t hate gays. I have relatives who are gay and I love. I would never attend their gay wedding if they were too get married. But that has nothing to do with me loving them. It has to do with an act that I can not support. The same as I would not support someone who is living in any other form of sin. To support that would be like telling them it is ok which would be a lie. Love is honest even when it is not convenient.

          • Jeremy L

            “I’m a Christian and I don’t hate gays”. You may not hate them overtly, but your total and complete lack of interest in actually understanding them shows you can’t care that much about them. You may think, “I’m just saving them from hell by not supporting their wedding and telling them they’re wrong”. In actuality, you’re hurting them to their very core. What if one of your alleged gay relatives decided they would just boycott your wedding? And their reason was because your relationship was “sinful”. And when you pleaded with them to explain why they think that way considering how deeply you love the person you are marrying, they just slam the door in your face and won’t listen to you for anything. Your belief that gay relationships are invariably sin is a dumb belief with no logic or rationale besides “for the Bible tells me so” and “natural law” fallacies. Let me guess the dogma you’ll spout out in response: “It’s a lifestyle choice, they could be straight if they wanted to”, “They don’t feel real love, only us straight people do”, “They can’t really be faithful and monogamous like we can”, “They have an agenda to molest children”, and so on. You want to talk about lies? All of those talking points are lies. You aren’t honest. You aren’t loving. You’re locked into traditions and religions and preconceived ideas and refuse to learn or see another’s perspective. “I would not support someone who is living in any other form of sin”. Do you refuse to attend the remarriages of your friends and family who got divorced for reasons other than adultery? If not, you are a hypocrite. You would be giving special attention to homosexuality and ignoring all the other “sins” in your religion you don’t care about.

          • tether

            Our church does not allow such weddings that are not within biblical standards. However adultery is not the only biblically acceptable reason for divorce. If a non-believer and a believer are married and the non-believer divorces the believer then the believer is not bound by the covenant and is free to marry another. And FYI adultery according to Jesus does not require one to actually have sex. Simply lusting after another is adultery.

          • Jeremy L

            Thanks for the Bible lesson. I suppose you are fairly consistent after all. I just wish I could see some Christian bakers refusing to sell to heterosexuals divorced for biblically unacceptable reasons. Perhaps they know they wouldn’t get “hero” status for it because too many people in their community don’t mind divorce and lots of people in their community either outright hate gays or else disapprove blindly of their relationships without knowing them.

          • tether

            That is another discussion for another day.
            You might be surprised to learn that it does happen. Just doesn’t get the publicity that others get.
            However I also will agree not all that claim to be Christian are or even understand what they are claiming. Not that I am perfect by any means. We all fall short of the glory of God.
            Jeremy I wish you the best, and if you don’t already then I hope one day you will come to know Jesus as Lord.
            Peace and good will for you.

  • Patmos

    If you don’t agree with the Saul Alinsky tactics, you’re a bigot, plain and simple. I know, doesn’t make much sense, but they keep shouting it so surely there is some validity to it!

  • Mal

    SPLC and LGBT are the real hate groups.

  • DivineDragon

    why allow latin america to be lazy/corrupt but never improve it self. why
    should we allow other countries to prey one sided on usa social
    policies? just so globalists get cheap outsource? it’s like a running
    faucet that dilute quality care for majority of citizens.

    global tech giants never demand other countries to be same crazy high operating cost regulation beauaracy like California.

  • DivineDragon

    it’s anti democracy to see democrat party deny middle class access to obamacare, but has no problems letting mexico dump it’s own population on it at legal citizen expense for abuse amnesty rig election consensus. resettlement abuses gov subsides same with medical giants. gop/senate exempt themselves from negatives

  • pickle my elmo

    The SPLC members have to be cleaned out — everyone, no quarter

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