2017 has been a year unlike any other — in politics and the world at large. The style and approach President Donald Trump brings to public policy have never before been seen. Historian Stephen Mansfield knows this better than most observers.

His new book Choosing Donald Trump: God, Anger, Hope, and Why Christian Conservatives Supported Him seeks to be boldly factual about the man who won America’s 2016 election. Having written books on past U.S. Presidents Abraham Lincoln, George W. Bush and Barack Obama, Mansfield knows how to craft rigorous, engaging history. His endnotes cite over 180 sources including more than 50 books, most either by or about Donald Trump.

As a longtime Christian author, his work leans on leading evangelical thinkers to understand the changing national landscape. Notably, such diverse figures as Pastor Ed Stetzer, Jim Wallis, Johnnie Moore and Rev. Al Sharpton are among those acknowledged for contributing to Choosing Donald Trump. Mansfield also has several (undisclosed) trusted sources among national influencers.

No matter how one views President Trump’s accomplishments, looking at the bigger picture proves insightful. In part one of our interview, Stephen Mansfield shares about the significant voices in Donald Trump’s early life, his decades as a real estate mogul — and how those influence the White House today.

The Stream: What did your research reveal about young Donald Trump’s relationship with his father? 

Stephen Mansfield: His father is very profound in his life. First of all, Frederick Trump was known as being a hard-bitten, hard-dealing New York real estate magnate. He called Donald “killer” and “king.” That tells you a lot about what he expected of him. He was very harsh and demanding. Donald rebelled and that’s why he got put in military school.

Though the two of them worked together in real estate later, it’s obvious from Donald’s statements he wanted to be separate from his father. He wanted to go in a different direction and not live in his father’s shadow. Though Donald Trump honors his father often and speaks positively of him, it was a relationship of criticism.

The word “competition” comes up in every book about the Trump family. It stems from Fred Trump’s driven nature. As a result, you end up with a competitive, self-complementary, hard-hitting, sometimes harsh Donald Trump. His father shaped him profoundly.

The Stream: How do you see his years studying at a military academy playing into current dynamics in the White House? 

Mansfield: His years at the military academy really shaped Donald Trump. It put him in an environment of competition and achievement, which is where he thrives. He became the student-coach of the baseball team. He did well academically. He became a leader in the broader sense.

While he might’ve made a mess of his life if left in a regular high school, the New York Military Academy gave him an environment in which he could let fly with his competitiveness. The win-at-all-costs bombastic persona we see in Donald Trump comes from his father and his years at the military academy.

He respects and reveres military men. He doesn’t relate to eggheads or consultants, the professor types. He doesn’t relate to long-term bureaucrats, someone who’s been at State for 30 years. They’ll use nuanced insider language and he doesn’t relate to that. He naturally connects with General Kelly and those in his inner circle. He relates to their clarity, command, expertise and authority.

President Trump leads by creating a culture of competition and achievement. It’s why he’s willing to undermine his own Cabinet officials. He will appoint someone, then within weeks tweet out that they’re weak. He thinks anything that inspires you to compete and strive to win is worth it, no matter what kind of personal damage it might do.

It shapes what a lot of people have complained about in his White House. But that’s the mode of the fathering he received and the military approach.

The Stream: When did Norman Vincent Peale come into the picture? Your book expresses concerns about his version of Christianity. 

Mansfield: When Donald was first born, the Trump family was going to a Presbyterian church in New York. When he was a small boy, they began going to Marble Collegiate Church where Norman Vincent Peale had just become pastor. He was essentially the main pastor in Donald Trump’s life.

As explored in the book, there are two streams in the ministry of Norman Vincent Peale. One is the more traditional, born-again variety of Christianity. He called it that. But also coming out of his life was the motivational side, as in his book The Power of Positive Thinking. Peale made public speeches and traveled the world to espouse those views.

Donald Trump drank from the latter stream more than the former. When he talks about Christianity and doing God’s will, he talks about winning. We don’t hear President Trump talking about the person of Jesus or transformation by salvation — the core of Christianity. That doesn’t come out much in his thinking.

There’s a scene in the book documented by several sources. Donald Trump was on the phone with several of his faith advisors. He said, “I’m going to really go after that Johnson Amendment. I really believe I’ll get in to Heaven if we get rid of that.” There was silence on the conference call. Finally, someone reminded him: “Sir, you’re not going to get in to Heaven because you abolish the Johnson Amendment. That comes about another way.”

It shows how he thinks: win, conquer, do good things for religious people and achieve points in Heaven. It comes in part from the Norman Vincent Peale perspective.

The Stream: Many on the right think the media has greatly exaggerated moral charges against President Trump. How would you sum up his decades as a real estate mogul? 

Mansfield: It’s not me picking on Donald Trump to say that he was an immoral man. By his own standard, he was immoral. He had affairs on his wives; he publicly said he didn’t think adultery was wrong in some cases. That was actually a headline in New York newspapers: ‘ADULTERY IS NO SIN’ Says Donald Trump. During those years, he was the playboy millionaire.

He hung out with and bedded a variety of women. He enjoyed and consorted with strippers. He keeps an entire bound set of all Playboy magazines in his office. This is not a man who was living any kind of Christian life during those years.

He points to the fact that he didn’t drink then as some evidence of faith. I happen to be a Christian who drinks, and I don’t see it as a sign of holiness. It doesn’t reveal ethics. Other than that, there is nothing to distinguish his behavior as a Christian during those years. He did not attend church, spend time with people of faith or have any meaningful connection with Christian teaching.

Perhaps a move towards Christianity has come in his later life. He’s around more evangelicals and Christian ministers now than in times past. Or, some think it’s a political move that has been welcomed by religious leaders. There’s no question he is more religiously oriented now than he was during his New York real estate years.

The Stream: We’ll consider his faith journey and advisors as we move forward. In this divided nation, it’s easy for talk about politics to get partisan and bitter. How can people discern what is true and engage these issues with integrity?

Mansfield: In the media I’ve been doing regarding this book, I’ve found there are good journalists who interview me and are willing to hear what I have to say.

Then there are people who just light up and get furious when I say something positive about Donald Trump or say something negative about him. That’s because they’re coming from a standpoint of advocacy. They are unwilling to look at the other side of issues.

A real journalist is open to truth wherever it’s found. They are not primarily advocates, but exploring facts and letting people draw their own conclusions. They have not basically signed on to the PR team of the campaign.

I’m very concerned about this dynamic when it comes to religious leaders. To engage in prophetic distance is to evaluate rather than fully sign on to some agenda. Particularly in Donald Trump’s case, he actually respects people who challenge him if he believes they are not intending him any harm.

Some serve as a chaplain to he and his family when invited, which is good. But it’s essential for faith advisors not to be just extensions of his campaign. The country would be better and Donald Trump would be better if we had leaders who are bold rather than simply trying to transactionally trade access for public support.

 

Choosing Donald Trump is available online and wherever books are sold. Look for part two of this interview, with insights on the 2018 agenda, faith advisors and more.